 Hello from the National Archives Public Programs and Education Team. My name is Missy McNat and I'm an Education Specialist in Washington, D.C. And welcome to the National Archives Comes Alive Young Learners Program. You can find information about future programs on the National Archives website, archives.gov, and on the National Archives Facebook page. This morning we meet Madame C.J. Walker, portrayed by Dr. Daisy Sentry, author, educator, and actor with the American Historical Theater. Madame C.J. Walker epitomizes the American dream. She was born Sarah Breedlove in 1867 in Delta, Louisiana, and she was the first child born free to her formerly enslaved parents. And through her dedication, hard work, and perseverance, Madame Walker built a hair and cosmetic manufacturing business. And in the process, she became the first African American female millionaire. And that was no easy task in the Jim Crow segregated and male dominated society of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. But Madame C.J. Walker was so much more than an entrepreneur, and we will learn about the many roles that she had during her life this morning. The National Archives has in its holdings records related to Madame C.J. Walker, including these two photographs that you can find in Doc's Teach on her estate, Madame C.J. Walker's estate, Villa Loireau, that is located on the Hudson River in New York. And on the next slide, we see the feature activity for the program today on Madame C.J. Walker that you can find in docsteach.docsteach.org. And we will share this slide again at the end of the program. We are very fortunate this morning to have Miss Alelia Bundles with us, who is Madame C.J. Walker's great, great granddaughter. And Miss Bundles, among many other things, has written several books on her great, great grandmother. And this one, all about Madame C.J. Walker, is a book for young adults. And you can find this book. You can purchase a signed copy from the National Archives Foundation gift shop by going to NationalArchiveStore.org, go to books, and then go to signed books to get your signed copy. And Miss Bundles is going to answer questions for us this morning at the end of Dr. Century's presentation. So please write your questions in the YouTube chat box for Miss Bundles to answer. And we have a National Archives staff member who is monitoring the chat box. And let us know where you're watching from. This program is brought to you by the National Archives Public Programs and Education staff, the National Archives and the National Archives Foundation. And now it is my great pleasure to introduce to you Madame C.J. Walker, a remarkable woman who changed the course of her life and thousands of others who were associated with her. Enjoy. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, no spoon at all, I guess. Mama said I was going to be her Christmas baby, but of course I couldn't wait for Christmas. I came December 23rd, 1867. Mama said I'm going to be lucky because I was born free. I was given the name of Sarah, Sarah Breed Love. As far as I can remember, me and my sister, Lavinia, you were playing the mud because it rained a lot down in Delta, Louisiana, down on the Barnas Place. As young as I was, Mama said, Sarah, get that book learning, Sarah, learn how to read, write, and count, and mind nobody else's business except your own, you hear? I remember that. Then all of a sudden my mama died, and daddy died right after my mama. When I am about seven, I guess, often. Me and Lavinia, we tried to fend for ourselves the best we could. Then we took the paddle boat across the Sampy River into Vicksburg looking for my brother. But we ended up, most of the times, in the Washington woman's shanty shack. Wash and close, sunrise, sunset, hands all wrinkled, backs on fire, feet on fire. Then I got married out of convenience, I guess, to get away from my mean brother-in-law. I got married to a nice gentleman by the name of Mr. Moses McWilliams. He worked at the Sawmill on the other side of town, but one day Mr. McWilliams went to work. He never did come back. We suspect he was limped. We ain't sure, but back then he wasn't safe for a colored man to be out. I never did talk about that for the rest of my life. And I had a little baby girl, Mr. McWilliams would never see his baby girl grow up. I named my little girl Leah. I said, I'm going to make sure that little girl learned to weave, write, and camp. So I got on the paddle boat, got off for the first stop, sent room. Didn't know nobody, didn't have no job, no money, nothing. But I went to the church and they had rooms to rent. And she said, whenever you get the money, you can pay me. Oh, that was a godsend because I didn't have no money. And the church had a school. So I would put Leela in school while I would wash all day long, but I learned to read, write, and camp right alongside Leela. Saved up enough money to send her off to college, not school college that was unheard of. Oh, I continued to wash clothes and saving every penny. And a gentleman caught my eyes. His name was Mr. John Davis. And after a while, Mr. John Davis and I got down. He was bringing in 250 a week. I was bringing in 250. I said, John, how are we going to afford a big house like that one up on the hill? And how I'm going to order nice dresses from the Cadillac. And how are we going to get furniture? Bring it in 250. That ain't enough, John. Said, at least we got money. Sarah, some people ain't got no money. I said, John, but it ain't enough. Said, at least we got some, John. Then we started arguing about something we didn't even have. And that was money. So he said, well, I've had enough. I'm leaving. I said, well, good riddance. So he left. I continue on working. Washing clothes. I said, Sarah, you got to do something, Sarah. But as time would have it, the World's Fair comes through St. Moon. All the big time colored movies and shakers was there. W.E.B. Jane. Booker T. Washington and his wife. Oh, Mary Church Charelle. Ida B. Wells. Oh, J.R. Cliff and Nanny Helen Burris. They all come through the World's Fair for the National Negro Economic Summit. Oh, they all got up and talked about how we can better ourselves and our race. But when it was time for Mrs. Booker T. Washington to speak when she got up. Oh, I looked at her. She had the most beautiful dress. No wrinkles, no holes, nothing. A string of pearls and a shoe shine and her hair's tucked in at the bottom. Her hair was so shiny it looked like she breasted a hundred times. I'm so busy washing clothes. I ain't had time to be washing my hair and taking care of it. It's all dry and brittle and falling out. But when it was time for her to speak, she went up to the front and she had that book learning. Oh, she says, ladies and gentlemen, it is so important to send our children to college and professional schools so that they can become doctors, lawyers, teachers, business owners and bankers. It's also important to send them off to, of course, trade schools so that they can become carpenters and cabinet makers and farmers. But mostly important than that, we should develop some kind of family business so that we can pass it on from generation to generation. And that way we can have our own wealth and develop economic independence. We won't have to depend on anyone for survival. Oh, I didn't hear no more. She said, start some kind of business so that we can develop economic independence. I said, Sarah, you got to do something. I went home and got my bowl, and I stir up everything I could. Salt, sugar, pepper, all my lime soap, molasses. I went outside, I got some red clay. I mixed it all up. I said, now, Sarah, if the little bit of hair you got fall out on your pillow tomorrow morning, ain't nobody fault except your own. But I got to try it. I got to do something. So I put some on my hair. About a month, nothing happened. So I mixed it up, mixed it up again, nothing happened. I went to sleep and I had this dream. It was so real, all the ingredients I needed. I dreamt about it. I mixed it up and put it in there. I said, Sarah, here you go again. After about two months, I said, all right, Sarah, oh, let's see, Sarah, it should work by now. Let me look in the mirror. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you. My hair was this long. I tell you, this long, dry and brittle. All right. All right, Sarah, what you going to do? What you going to do? I said, all right. I think the other ladies might want some of this. So I put it in jars. After I finished my washing, I went out and I tried to sell some. Sarah, what you got to do? I'm going to put on my best white blouse. And I'm going to put on my best black skirt, and then I'm going to go out and sell my product. That's what I'm going to do. So I put on my best white top and my black skirt, and I went out and I tried to sell three months and nothing happened, but I went out every day because I knew something was going to happen. And after about four months or later as well, I'll try something. My hair is not growing and it's falling out. I'll try. And after about a month, she came back. She said, Sarah, look at my hair. It's growing. What you have is good, Sarah. A lot of ladies want this, Sarah. I'll take three bottles. I said, thank you. Thank you. Oh, and the ladies were lined up at my door and I woke up in the morning. Everybody wanted Sarah. Hair growing tonic. I said, all right, I had to get four ladies to help me. I'll take north, you go south, east, west, we'll cover all of St. Louis to have everybody get something. The money was rolling in. I'll tell you the money was rolling in. And here comes Maggie Malone. This was the lady I used to help sell her hair bleeds. She said, your storyline ingredients, I'm going to take you to court and sue you. Oh, I knew. I had to find some other place to go. My brother was in Denver, so he died a while back and he left his widow and two dogs. So I went to Denver, new territory. He says, all right, let's see what I can do here. When I got there, the ladies found out that I was Sarah from St. Louis. They all lined up, come to get Sarah's hair tonic. He says, oh, things are clicking tight. Money was rolling in. And then, of course, a gentleman I knew from St. Louis came up to Denver. His name was Charles Joseph Walker. Everybody called him CJ. CJ and I, of course, I knew one another, we knew one another back in St. Louis. Then we got to talking and pretty soon CJ and I got married. So I said, I don't want to call myself Mrs. Charles Joseph Walker, Mrs. CJ Walker. I want something that sounds important. I'm going to call myself Madam, Madam CJ Walker. That sounds important. So by now, Lila, of course, was out of college. She was a striking six-feet tall, beautiful, and she had that book learning like Mrs. Booker T. She became the spokesperson for my company. I said, all right, Sarah, it's time to form a company and get some people around you who know about the laws and the tax and everything. So I formed the Walker team. Says, now, of course, Lila became the spokesperson for the company. Ms. Alice Walker, of course, and Ms. Violet Davis Reynolds, I met these two women at a convention. They, of course, would help me with the office and all the paperwork. Ms. Alice Davis would take care of all the people who had mail or the catalog orders and keep all the papers and files and all the court documents. Ms. Violet Davis Reynolds would travel with me. She would keep track of all my speaking engagements and she would write those fancy speeches for me. Mr. Robert Lee Brockenbauer and Mr. Freeman B. Ransom, two of the best-colored lawyers in Denver. They knew all about the laws and the taxes. They would take care of the courts and, of course, the banks and anybody who wanted to sue the company, would take care of things like that. Take care of all the money coming in and out. And then, of course, myself and CJ, we formed the Walker team. We met every week. We discussed all the money coming in, going out, the territories we were in, the territories we need to conquer. All the monies were rolling in, I tell you. Things were clicking, things were clicking. Oh, I said, now, Madam CJ, it's time for you to enjoy some of this money. Lila certainly is enjoying the money. My daughter is wearing a turban hat with real diamonds and turquoise in it. Having lavish parties every weekend becoming the social life. Says Madam CJ, yep, it's time for you to enjoy some of this money. So, I started wearing silk dresses. I said, now, don't do too much, Madam CJ. That little boy says, I said, oh, no. You can enjoy some of this money, Madam CJ. And, of course, the first thing I got was a string of pearls like Mrs. Boogie T. Washington. Oh, that was nice. Started wearing gold watches and gold bangles. Says, don't do too much, Madam CJ. That little boy says, go on, Madam CJ. Started wearing diamonds. I said, now, look at this. Now, me and Lavinia didn't even have a good dress between the two of us. Here I am wearing diamonds. And, of course, Lila, of course, made sure that, why don't you have to have a pedicure and you have to have a facial and you have to have makeup on. So, I put on my makeup. Says, go on, Madam CJ, enjoy some of this money. And, of course, I would wear hats with feathers on. If you didn't have any feathers on, I would say, put some feathers on it. When I go to a convention, they say, which one is Madam CJ? I said, see that one. That one that's wearing the feather. The feather in her hat. Oh, then I had fur. I had a black fur. I had a white fur. I had a gray fur. I said, if there's any other color, I want that too. So, now, Madam CJ, go on, Madam CJ. Now, I always tell my workers and I always tell my team, don't have a hole in your fist so tight. If you have the money, help the people. It seems like the more I gave away, the more it had come back to me. It started calling me a philanthropist. Because I gave them to the NAACP. I gave them Tuskegee Institute. I gave to the shelter homes and schools and other colleges, YMCA's. Oh, wherever I could, I just gave away the money. I gave away the money to the Color Women Association and helped them to get women to vote. Oh, and we read, of course, to New York to have the solid protest. Protesting, of course, lynching. Nobody said a word. So, it started calling me a social activist. I didn't consider myself a social activist. I just did whatever I could. Oh, of course, now it says now. What you going to do now, Madam CJ? I said, I want to do one more thing. One more thing I want to do. I want to build myself a mansion. Something somebody will come from miles around. Other citizens, states, and countries just to look at my mansion. And then, of course, we can have our conventions there. And, of course, I did. I said, Madam CJ, you going to get your house all dirtied up? I says, no. Anybody can come and have their meeting gear. This is not my house. This is the people's house. I just built this house to let people know that wherever you come from, that this can be done with hard work. It's not my house, it's for the people's house. Oh, so? It's time and all, of course. People would just call me to their conventions to speak, and CJ and I went across the country on the train with flyers to advertise the Madam CJ Walker Manufacturing Company. Oh, got real estate. Things were good. Things were clicking, I tell you. Things were rolling in. One last company note. I started my company with $1.50. Within a year, they had cultures, the women in their salons, that were making between $25 and $35 a week. That was unheard of. My salespeople were making $2 to $10 a week. Within a year, I employed a thousand salesperson bringing in well over $1,000 a month. Things were clicking, I tell you. Clicking. Within six years, 4,000 salesperson all over the United States, my factory employed $3,000. By 1918, bringing in well over $250,000 a year, on my way to making history and becoming the first black female self-made millionaire. So goes the life of the ride-to-riches story of the first black self-made millionaire, Madam CJ Walker, Sarah Breedlove, Mac Williams, Davis Walker, America's first self-made millionaire. Thank you. Thank you. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Sentry. That was fantastic. We learned so much about Madam CJ Walker in that really dynamic performance. And now we are very fortunate to have Ms. Lilia Bundles, who is an award-winning journalist with ABC and NBC. She is the great-great-granddaughter of Madam CJ Walker, and she is going to answer our questions for us this morning. So welcome and thank you, Ms. Bundles. And before we start asking the questions, I just want it because we do ask people where they're from. So just to let you know that we have folks from Illinois, from Washington, from Alabama, from Southern Maryland, from St. Louis, you know, where she lived, and from New York. And from Colorado in there as well, and Pennsylvania. So anyway, thank you so much for joining us. And so let me find my questions here. It says, Madam Walker still inspires entrepreneurs and philanthropists. Why do you think her legacy is so enduring? Good morning, Missy, and it's really great to be here. It was wonderful to see Dr. Dorothy's presentation. She really brings Madam Walker to life. So now we have an idea of what Madam Walker would have said herself. But I think Madam Walker is enduring because she is someone who really does embody the idea of working hard, the American dream as we, you know, believe it as a rags to riches. But really because she challenged some of the stereotypes and challenged some of the conventional wisdom as a woman. Before women had the right to vote, she pushed for suffrage, but she also created a business when women couldn't own property. And she, it seems to me she made these personal accomplishments. But what makes her enduring is that she created opportunities for other women. She helped other women become educated, become economically independent as business women. And then that made a difference from people whose mothers, grandmothers, great aunts had been Walker agents. And then who took this idea that she planted of being not just financially successful, but being active, politically active and civically active in her community. Thank, that's great. And so here's an interesting question. I understand that Alex Haley had an interest in Madam Walker's story during the 1980s, and that he became a mentor. Do you know anything about that? Does that ring a bell with you? Oh, absolutely. Alex Haley was a good friend and a mentor. I had written my my paper in graduate school journalism at Columbia about Madam Walker. And in 1976, that's when Roots was first on the scene as a book and then later a miniseries. And Alex approached me and my family about doing a miniseries and a book on Madam Walker. We had dinner in New York and he described what he was going to do. He was going to hire six or seven researchers and you know, of course he had done lots of research at the National Archives and I said at the end of dinner, I said, Mr. Haley, I'm already doing this research. I have access to all of these papers and documents that my family has saved that the company has saved. I'd be happy to do that research for you. And that really led to a friendship until he died in 1992. He never finished writing the book but we had many discussions at his farm in Tennessee. We talked often, we mapped out what the story was going to be. In the meantime, I wrote a young adult book different from the one that you that we're talking about today on a freighter trip with Alex in 1991 and then Alex died in 1992 and then I went on to write the four books that I've written since then but he definitely was a mentor with a great deal of interest in Madame Walker's story. Okay, here, these people who are watching, they are just so well informed and many people saw a self made and the fictional Netflix series it just came out inspired by on her own ground, your non-fiction biography you wrote about Madame Walker. What were some of the things you liked most about the series? Well, I think what I liked most about the series is that Octavia Spencer was spectacular in the role. Every time she came on screen, I really thought that she did a great job of embodying Madame Walker, her spirit, her tenacity, her courage. I loved the scene with the market women where she's trying to persuade them to become Walker agents and those things were important to me, that she built a business that showed the struggles of a woman building a business. There were a lot of things for people who care about the details and the facts of history that were just really historically inaccurate. The scene with Booker T. Washington really portrayed him as just a misogynist and while he was a man of his era that was inaccurate. The daughter, the character of the daughter of Alelia Walker was really a 180 degrees different from Alelia Walker who was really kind of a dignified person who actually had a great singing voice even though she's portrayed as not being able to carry it to who didn't have a girlfriend named Esther. So that was off. The other thing I think that is that really stands out is that the character Annie Malone who was Addie Monroe in the series in real life Madame competitor was Annie Malone but they both became really successful they both were philanthropists. Annie Malone was not a light skin woman so that whole colorism theme was entirely fabricated but they were real life competitors who both developed successful businesses. Oh, great. Okay, here's another one. Did she teach Madame CG Walker teach other people of color how to get a better life? Did Madame Walker do that? Yes. Yes, absolutely. But you know it's interesting I mean even the title self-made of the Netflix series is kind of the opposite of what really happened. I mean yes she was a self-made person in the sense that she didn't marry someone who was wealthier and didn't inherit the money. But I think that there's a term called mutually made that really describes Madame Walker's life when she was a poor washerwoman, Sarah Breedlove, McWilliams Davis she was really influenced by the women of St. Paul African Methodist Episcopal Church, the school teachers the women who were involved in the National Association of Club Women the Club Women's Movement women who were working on suffrage and it was those women in the missionary society in the choir where she's saying who began to give her a vision of herself as something other than an illiterate washerwoman. But that was happening with women all over the country. So Madame Walker, poor Sarah Breedlove took those lessons that she had learned from seeing women in their collective action. And then when she began to develop her business and began to recruit agents she realized that these women yes they wanted her hair care product which worked but they also needed education they needed economic independence. So that became as much the motivation for her as just selling hair care products. So she was making it possible for other women who otherwise would have been working as maids and laundresses and farm workers to have some economic independence. Okay, another one. So when did you begin to discover the stories of your great great grandmother and your great grandmother the both of them because I'm almost finished with a biography on Aaliyah Walker and her life in Harlem during the 20s. But you know I really began to discover the story of these women before I could see my mother and I would visit my grandfather in the apartment where he and my grandmother had lived. My grandmother died in 1945 and in the mid 1950s my mother and I would visit my grandfather in the apartment and in my grandmother's room really had not been touched since her death in that decade and in the dresser drawers were things that had belonged to Madame Walker and Aaliyah Walker into my grandmother. Ostrich Feather fans, mother of pearl opera glasses, Madame Walker's shawl and then the silverware that we use every day at home had Madame Walker's monogram MCJ CJW on it and my mother was Vice President of the Madame CJ Walker Manufacturing Company so I would go with my mother to her office in Indianapolis and play on her typewriter before there were computers and on her adding machine before there were calculators visit the ladies who worked in the factory who were still hand mixing Walker products so I began to learn about this story long before I understood its significance and then fast forward much later I began to become interested in Aaliyah Walker and her life during the Harlem Renaissance we had first edition books by Langston Hughes and Count T. Cullen and then in graduate school I really began to seriously research Madame Walker's life and discover these other dimensions about her so a related question do you still have all those personal items that you mentioned her ostrich feather fan, her hats her jewelry and are they in a museum or on display anywhere I actually have a quite a collection here in my house my Madame Walker family archives so yes I have some of the clothes I have letters, photographs a few pieces of furniture jewelry some other things books but we also have donated things to the National Museum of African American History and Culture at the Smithsonian and I lend things to different museum exhibits but the largest collection of items of Madame Walker's are at the Indiana Historical Society where we donated in the early 80's thousands of papers photographs and business records that had been Madame Walker's and the Madame CJ Walker Manufacturing Company and there is an exhibit that's up right now at Indianahistory.org and the collection is digitized okay so switch here many of us are doing genealogical research about our families any advice on how to organize the material well you know with the National Archives that's one of the very first places to get started to do research to use the NARA documents that are on ancestry but then to do your own visiting when things do open back up I really benefited from my friendship with Alex Haley when I started to do the research for the project that he had hoped to do he gave me a really key piece of advice he said to make a manila folder for each year of the person's life so for Madame Walker born in 1867 I made a folder 1867 and then she died in 1919 so I had a folder for every year and then I expanded it to Amelia Walker's life and then going backwards to her parents lives and I began to put things in that folder I've been doing that now for more than 40 years so I have now two rooms of my house that are the documents but the point is is that it's really important to organize your material because over time you accumulate so much you don't remember what you have so in addition to those chronological folders I also have folders for all of the key people in her life I will drop something in there for the main organizations for certain time periods certain eras it is really important to keep the material organized so that kind of leads into the next question so what do you see yourself working on next what's your next project with all that material that you have so I've been working on a biography of Amelia Walker for really quite a long time I'm almost finished with it and it should be out next year and you know honestly once I finish that book I'm not writing anymore books that really require a huge amount of historical detail because these biographies writing about people who really have never been written about before requires a great deal of meticulous research that takes a lot of time so I still will be writing writing articles, writing poetry you know doing other kinds of things but this will be the last major biography that I write that really requires this level of detail because I want to have some fun and I want to read all the books that are in my house well this question is actually from me with all of the had anyone done a lot of research on Madame C.J. Walker before you started were you able to find any or were you really doing that original research no I really did the original research you know it's really surprising but when I wrote my young adult book that was published in part of the Chelsea House series in 1991 there had never been a biography about Madame Walker so the first serious comprehensive sort of comprehensive biography of Madame Walker was really a young adult biography and then I use those documents that are at the Indiana Historical Society this was when they we first before the collection was processed I use that I traveled to a dozen different cities going through courthouses historical societies public libraries the papers of other people with whom Madame Walker had any interaction old newspapers city directories so I really did the original primary research so in on her own ground the end notes are really detailed and I did that specifically to try to create some bread crumbs for scholars who would come behind me you know at this point it's very different doing research I go to a library go through microfilm to read old newspapers if I wanted to read the Chicago Defender I had to go to Chicago you have to go to the National Archives to go through microfilm to go through census records now those things are digitized and you can do that you can do that work online but I'm really happy to say that some of those bread crumbs that I put out there for other scholars have been used by people like my good friend Tyrone McKinley Freeman who's recently written a book really focused on Madame Walker's philanthropy called Madame Walker's Gospel and Giving and other scholars like Tiffany Gill and Nalihwe Brooks and others who I have really enjoyed helping as they were writing about Madame Walker and using some of that original primary source material to then go on and expand on that in their own creative ways thank you another question a little bit different area did Madame CJ Walker have any patents on her products so there are trademarks that are at the patent office where she is really the system her Walker system there are some things if one wants to do the USPTO search to find things that the Madame Walker company has a trademark and the names of some of her original products are trademark okay and then this interesting question so today we think of people who are starting a business that get financing from other places did she get any financing from banks or it was all her own yeah it was all her own the world is very different though even now you know women and people of color in an infinitesimal amount of venture capital money so there's still not a lot of capital available to women and people of color who are starting businesses and that is you know just really kind of obscene how uneven that distribution is but when Madame Walker was starting out she did approach a few people to try to sell some stock and she didn't have really very many takers so it was really her sweat equity she would make some money invest that money back into the company and you know over time the banks that you know weren't willing to lend to her over time they saw that she was making such large deposits that they did you know extend her a line of credit but she really was self financing okay and then we really were out of time thank you so much we have one more question for you if Madame live today what advice would she give to our youth absolutely she would say education is really important she did not have an opportunity for much formal education as a young person she did she ended up hiring a tutor once she had the money and the means to do that but she also gave scholarships to a number of schools to Mary McLeod Bethans Cookman College to Tuskegee Institute to Lucy Laney's Institute and several other schools so she really believed in the importance of education and she would say it's really important to study hard and then to use that the brain power that you develop if you go into business if whatever you're doing make sure that you're giving back to the community that you are being a philanthropist and and supporting your community and being politically active well thank you so much and thank you Dr. Sentry I'll come back on again to say thank you so very much to both of you this was an amazing program and I know that all of our viewers got so much out of it we did have I saw a few more from New Hampshire and other places so we are going to now put up the slide as I promised for the DoxTeach activity and then we're going to put up the slide for the so you can purchase the book about Madam C.J. Walker so again thank you all so much and have a wonderful rest of your day