 So I'll just go briefly through the things that I have not mentioned before that are new. The first is the approach that we take to having a small window. Thanks going to rule for figuring a lot of this out. There's a small window we deemphasize the web view the browser on the right so you can see it there but it's pretty tiny. And what happens is as you select things. The page is actually load on the right you can't really tell. And the way to see them is to hover your cursor over the web view and then you get the full page it's still fairly small because it's a fairly small window but it does work. And then when you hover back over the main table of contents the web view disappears to the right. It's obviously not as satisfying an experience as the full screen. If you've got a large enough display to support the full screen window, but it does seem to work pretty well. The big news is I finally I fought a rear guard action with mostly with myself, I guess. But I've finally given up on hover as a selection mechanism the arrangement of the various labels simply makes it impracticable I think to use hover for selection. So now you can hover as much as you want and nothing will happen you really do have to click in order to load the corresponding page. I have been using bars to indicate the number of pages associated with a category. horizontal bars so basically that any list was also a bar chart, which is great in theory, as a practical matter, it's never really entirely clear what you should normalize the bars length to. But on any given list, the length of a bar would mean something different from what it meant on some other list, depending on what the maximum number of items was in that in the various lists. So I gave up on that and now they're just integers. So facts and three has 26 pages associated with it j playground and one has one page associated with it. It's still graphical in the sense that, you know, laying out using a positional notation is basically a logarithmic graph. So 108 is obviously bigger than one, but it's, it's a far cry from the original bars. I guess the last point is. And again thanks to rule for pointing this out. Some labels are just too wide. It happens in lists sometimes so for example if you look at other array languages C six or running J playground P one. When a label is too wide for the available real estate, it'll actually float it when you hover over it. And that's maybe clearer and something like this where essays tacit expressions comments doesn't fit. So it floats when you hover over it similarly for all of these labels. And if a label is over on the far right, such as vocabulary jaren's and there isn't enough space or real estate to the right to show it so it'll actually shift to the left so it floats out to the left. So we really try to make labels visible as long as you're hovering on them, even if they turn out to be very long and inconvenient placed. And that's it. That's all. Are there any questions about any of that. I have, I have one. Yeah, please. You don't I don't think you need that green strip anymore on your on your left most. That would be great. Why not. You put that there was so that you had a white strip you could move up and down without scrolling. Yeah. But now with the with clicking you don't need to worry about that do you. I think I would agree with Stephen or Stephen would agree with me. He brought up fits law in one of the videos that you made with him. And this is something that I, I had had reservations about way back when before we started working with him and still do. And that is that if you're moving. And as a result of you moving your target is moving. That's badness that renders fits law more complicated. And that's bad. Yeah, you really do want to be able to move your cursor without moving your target. It's, it's okay when the list is not too terribly compressed. It becomes much more problematic becomes more problematic the more compressed the list is and that would be a smaller screen then. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I don't I don't love the green stripe. I put the cursor hand back in. It disappeared for a while. I'm not actually sure why I don't know why I took that out, but I put it back. And that's, I think good, but I think the green stripe still needs to be there as a clue as to, you know, that something is different about the left half versus the right half of the list. And that would be because if you had something else within the, within the group that's highlighted now expanded, you wanted to get to it. You wanted to get to it if it's moving. But the thing I little trickier is, yeah, I understand that. But the thing I think about it is how often, like, when I'm moving up and down, I'm just looking to what I'm hovering on. But I mean, I'm sitting on facts and three, and if I want to go to developers D, that's a certain distance and I've developed an intuition about how far I have to move my index finger touchpad in order to get there. And if I do that, your developers was here. But as a result of my moving downwards, it's shifted upwards. Yeah, yeah. If your target is moving in response to your movements, that's not good. Yeah, no, I get that. It's funny how, though, in my head, when I'm when I'm using it up and down, and that this may be because I'm more comfortable with it. I'm not thinking of it that way. I'm not thinking of trying to go to a fixed target. I'm trying to get, I'm thinking of the red bars as a fixed target, I suppose I'm trying to put them over where I want in this expanding, changing, floating window, right? And is it easier to do that on the right side of the list or the left side of the list? I think I think you're right with with Fitz law that it actually probably ease is easier. If my whole list was expanded. But because my my list is changing as well. I think of it a different way. I'd love to talk to Steven about it and see what he what he says about that because I can see where there's a mismatch in the way of thinking about it. But for some reason in my head, when I'm sliding that whole window up and down, it feels like that's what I'm really doing. I'm going to try to point out two things here. One is if you're on the right hand side and you go out of the expanded window. It's not necessarily a useful experience on the left hand side, but on the right hand side of the most left hand most column when you're outside of the green. If he's not now, I'll go up to like the top. Yeah, there. That's not a pretty useful experience there. No. No, that's true. The other thing is that this law doesn't say a linear, it doesn't actually the least version of that I saw didn't say that we had a linear relation. No, certainly not. No, I just, I don't suggest that there is a linear relationship what I would suggest is that fits law would have to be more complex to accommodate the idea that the target is moving in response to your movements, the function that whatever form that movement takes. Yeah, the function that would implement fits law would have to incorporate the whole scrolling mechanism. And I submit that that's a harder thing to use that makes finding your target more complicated than it otherwise would be. I submit this I can't prove it. Yeah, I don't know. I agree that there is a learning curve there for people who haven't done this before. I don't know how bad of an experience that is I don't I don't. I don't want to, I'd want to put it in front of like my dad or something, so he wouldn't go here when I understand what he's looking at to just just get other people's opinions on it I guess novices. What I'd be delighted to do that. What I hope is that simply offering the choice, that is, Bob, you can stay on the green side if that's where you'd like to be. Yeah, that's true. Anyone who's uncomfortable with that can stay on the largely on the white side, not exclusively. Yep, but can leverage the white side to get an experience that can be described by the classical version of fits law. And when I see like next to you now you've got the frameworks down below which is running the same way. Except now, when it's not expanded, or it's completely expanded, there's not a contracted area that I definitely would be using the white no doubt about it. I wouldn't be using the green. But in the next year here, yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter exactly doesn't make any difference tonight. But if it did make a difference, I would be using the white because everything I want is right there. It's not going to be changing. Right, right, right, right, right. But your point about giving me the option with with the expanding version. That's an excellent point. I have the option. I would probably be using the green a lot more. Yeah, the green will do everything for you. The white is a more limited experience. That's certainly that's certainly true. I learned a new phrase the other day, splitting the baby. And that is what I endeavored to do here. Not a very nice phrase. I think it's it's Solomon, isn't it. It is. Other thing and I think it only shows up when it's when it's a smaller window. But how small does the window have to be to have that. Web view not showing up because I find the web view more useful. Like I really want to see when I'm selecting between different spots I'm, I am more interested in what the web view is because that's really what's giving me the information right. Yeah. So this is as small. This is as small as you can make the overall window. This is as small as the web view ever gets. And what kind of question. Well, I guess my question is what kind of how large a screen, like how big a laptop would that look like that on. Or do we know, like in terms of maybe all could comment on that. I haven't, I haven't explored the boundary between when, when the, when you get the resizing behavior and when, when you don't, I haven't, I don't know. I haven't even, I haven't, I haven't invested you that I can, I can tell you that I do get it. But bring it my max. Even when I even when I've got my things full screen, I always get the resizing behavior. Okay. And what, what size screen are you working with 14 inch? It's in pixels. I think it's like 12, some 1250 years or probably. Okay. Yeah. WDQ this. That's not the right thing. I have to, I'll have to poke around to remember how to. I think that's what the other is 1366 wide 768 high is my screen. And I think even my laptops are 1500 wide, which might be the difference. Certainly on my big screen, which I'm looking at right now, it's it's all I found was it's a little bit frustrating, like to click on something in navigation. And then have to slide over to see what I've actually selected and then slide back again to change it. Right. Yeah. What would I got here. I, I don't see the full web view, but I do see the title and probably half of the page. So it's not quite as frustrating as the minimal size one. Yeah. So Bob, are you suggesting might be suggesting that the right thing to do would be funny once you make it bigger. I guess we'll go smaller. Yeah, the right thing to do would be when you click the web view should expand on click. So you'd get this effect. And then you still have to go back to return to the link display. Yeah, but you don't have to go to the right to bring the web view up. There might be a point where you that's useful, but let me show you what my screen looks like it's a little bit different. Let me share my screen here. How do I get back to the zoom meeting is here and I hit share my screen where's my where's the share screen. I don't see the share screen. Bottom of the window. I see three others in front of me. Okay. And I want to share this, I think. Okay. So here is here's what I'm seeing. Yeah, I get. I get, you know, the page comes up. It's not the whole screen, but it's not unusable either. No, if I, what I was seeing in the, in the extreme small, which obviously is when it first fired up, I would just seeing really the J and the sidebar column. Right. And, and that's not really useful. But even if I see, like, for instance, this example cap, that's all I need to see. And now I know this is a page I'm either looking for or not looking for. I can move over. But I think your point at about clicking on it and then having it come full screen and come back. That's, well, we're not doing hover anymore. So yeah. Yeah. I think that works. But Rola, leave that up to you. Yeah, I like being able to preview. I mean, I, I like the idea that I can look at something and say, is this interesting. It is interesting before I focus on it. And if I go forward, then yeah, it's there. If the one other refinement that might be fun though, is me scroll up here. You see how the left column is constant, the left column of the web use constant. Yes. It's got the nav. Well, I'm scrolling down. It's interesting why I don't know why this is scrolling down. That's, that's, that's scrolling down because some of the links are. Hashes labels. Gotcha. Okay. But I was thinking this, the left nav, everything that's constant, if that could be, you know, what's in when it's in the compressed view, if that could be slid over so it's no longer visible, or you know, covered over, you know, if I don't know if it's possible to put the web view behind the page or if it's possible to horizontal scroll it or it's something I haven't even looked at. But if that could be hidden in when it's in this, in this mode, you see more of the content is this part here isn't really interesting. Oh, I see. You should take off the sidebar. Yeah, yeah. I don't think I, I guess I have two reservations, but they're not in any sense deal killers. The first is some of the content. Does not show the nav bar does not have nav bar pages like all of the forum posts, for example, do not have nav bars. We could, we could detect that. The second reservation, which is just an implementation issue is I, I don't think that the window layout manager will let you overlap. Right, so we have to do a different approach for that. Yeah, which is which we can figure something out. You know, perhaps, perhaps, but yeah, it save it for, for when it's the remaining top priority. The other possibility would be to force the web view to scroll horizontally, which I also don't know how to do, but that would be something that might work. I see a horizontal scroll window at the bottom of the web view there on Ronald's screen. Interesting. I wonder if I can drive it. The thing is, when you go over, it's full screen, right? Yeah, so it works against you, but you can see that it's there. It's there, but you can't touch it. Well, as soon as you go over there, it's just full screen. Oh, you want to scroll, I can do better than that.