 Welcome everyone to the September 2023 hyper ledger financial markets mortgage subgroup meeting. I think we have a great agenda for you guys today. And I think you guys will really enjoy our speaker Pavan Ardual. He is on a flight right now. So hopefully he'll be able to join us in time and we won't have any issues with that. Before we get started, I would like to express our appreciation to the financial markets more special industry group and the hyper ledger foundation for their ongoing support and making this group possible. Also, we'll be using a new hyper ledger branding that we previewed in our earlier meeting or in our meeting last month. I love the new color schema. I really like the look and feel and hopefully you will as well. So let's dive right in. Okay, we always like to start our meetings with the notification that this meeting is being recorded and is under the umbrella of the hyper ledger foundation. So we ask that everyone abide by the antitrust policy and code of contact of the hyper ledger foundation, the antitrust policy states that we avoid discussions of company specific pricing products and projects. We don't make negative remarks about other companies or products and the code of conduct means that we treat each other with respect, never discriminate and communicate constructively. We fully support hyper ledgers policy of openness, equity and inclusion. And for new participants, we welcome you and if you'd like, please introduce yourself in the chat and let us know of any issues you'd like to discuss and just generally hello. In our agenda for today, James Hendrick will provide an update on developments in the mortgage industry. Then as part of our ongoing effort to bring industry experts we have Pavan Argoal, the CEO from Sun West Mortgage and Siligence, who's going to be speaking with us today. After Pavan will walk through a survey that we're deploying and then have a quick Q&A. We always cover this slide in each meeting, because this really underscores the reason that we have these blockchain meetings. This is to reinforce the fact that we're all on the same blockchain journey. We just may be at different points along that path. For today's topic, we're going to see a really innovative use of that technology and hopefully that'll benefit everyone. Because this group is meant to help everyone on their blockchain journey to demonstrate the feasibility of blockchain technology through mortgage industry use cases and also to define potential implementation paths. And I think we're going to see a really interesting one today. The next few slides I always mention are for those that are new to the Hyperledger. This slide provides links to different resources for the Linux Foundation, our mortgage subgroup Wiki, second from the bottom, and this link contains meeting notes for our group reporting from previous meetings and curated articles that James will walk us through. These are great resources and we'll reference several of them during the course of this meeting. So how do you access that information? This slide answers that question. You'll need an LFID and I'm not going to go over this information in detail, but this is how you access it and I encourage you to take a look at it. This is a slide on blockchain training. All this information is free. This is a fantastic introduction to blockchain. This is how I got my base knowledge of blockchain and it's free. So again, I highly encourage you to use this information. And now we're going to have James Hendrick walk us through the state of blockchain in the global mortgage industry. James, take it away. Fantastic. Thank you, Marvin. Let's go ahead and jump into the first slide. The first article coming out of finance strategists. It's a great introductory article to blockchain in the real estate industry. It covers five essential topics. So it starts out with mechanisms of blockchain talking about decentralization and property transactions, tokenization of real estate smart contract, how they can work with escrow services. And the transparent property title management that blockchain can provide. And it goes into the overall, you know, blockchain benefits that we're used to talking about the transparency, the reduction in cost, the prevention of fraud. But one of the things I really liked about was he starts to talk about the limitations in real estate for blockchain. So technology complexity and the learning curve that's associated with it. You know, we're still in a state of regulatory and legal uncertainty as to, you know, how blockchain is going to be used or interpreted within the mortgage environment, the interoperability and standardization of issues and then the, you know, potential risk of hacks and system vulnerabilities. And the next the article covers is the effect of blockchain on the real estate, looking at both residential real estate commercial real estate and real estate investment trust. And then lastly finishes off with preparing for blockchain and the real estate industry. So really talking about understanding and overcoming challenges and strategies for integration and implementation within your environment. Great article. Take a look when you get a chance. This next one I was actually pretty excited to see that, you know, mizmo started getting involved with the blockchain world. We've had some brief conversations with them in previous years. But this article came out July last or two months ago. It was published a blockchain in the mortgage industry article. So this is a white paper that outlines findings on how blockchain technology can enhance the way mortgages are originated, serviced, sold and traded. It explores the use of blockchain and discusses how it can be used to improve efficiency, enabling transparency and increasing trust among the market participants, which is, you know, pretty common in most of the articles that people are writing on blockchain nowadays. So the following topics are presented within the white paper potential efficiencies, practical industry applications and use cases keys to increasing adoption. And then what is mizmo's overall role in the exploration and various aspects of blockchain technology, and how it's used throughout the industry. There are links available to this on our wiki when you go to the link. There's actually from that page. There's two different links. There's a link for members mizmo members. And there's also a link for non mizmo members to be able to get to that white paper. So I definitely encourage taking a look at it. Next page Marvin. Alright, this is another white paper coming out at MIT. It's, you know, looking at the future of mortgages and evaluating both blockchain and AI and how it can be utilized really discusses the opportunities for cost reduction in the mortgage industry through the combined use of these technologies. Top mortgage areas that it really covers is, you know, title insurance we've talked about it before, but this article actually focuses pretty heavily on loan servicing and how blockchain can be used to enhance the loan servicing process, provide better transparency and, you know, ensure efficiencies between investors and the servicing partners. So in the credit underwriting we've talked about the before one concept I really like that they talk about in this article is the concept of passporting. It allows borrowers to selectively share their credit information with potential lenders, making the process more efficient and giving borrowers greater control over their personal data. There are potential challenges that it talks about implementing these technologies in the, the mortgage industry. So often it's the decisions makers who are posing the biggest challenge. They're preference for traditional methods such as hard copy documentation can stand in the way of adopting new technologies. The history of fintechs and their, you know, impact on the adoption of blockchain regulatory marketplace challenges. So it covers a variety of different, you know, challenges and implementation strategies that need to be addressed and thought about the last thing the article really covers is blockchain and generative AI use cases in the real estate industry. So again, here's where they really kind of focus on servicing, where it might not be the most glamorous of the areas within the real estate industry. It's a critical area through blockchain and AI. We can manage, you know, how principle is paid, repaid, the status of mortgage backed securities. We can ensure the accurate tracking of payments. How fast those payments are being processed, prepayments, defaults, overall profitability. So in the end, it's a great white paper. It's about 17 pages long. He covers, you know, topics from risk assessment, automated underwriting, customer service fraud detection and a variety of others. So moving on to our last article. So this one's coming out of the National Mortgage News. This article discusses conversations that are going on on how blockchain and AI can mesh with one another within the financial sector. The methodologies companies using AI will look to the online ledger to outline their methodologies and data usage, creating snapshots of the data that are visible to all parties with access. Grouping blockchain and AI could answer the top of mind questions on how to make actions that occur within AI, more explainable by potentially opening up the black box. And this is something, you know, CFPB has issued several warnings about in the recent months. You know, as companies are moving forward and they're starting to incorporate AI into their decision making is being able to demonstrate what are the decisions and how did the AI engine get to making those decisions. So AI can help in optimizing how blockchain resources themselves are used. Blockchain can help AI and providing better traceability of the data sets on the model iterations themselves. And also within the article, Leia Price, the co-chair of MISMOS Emerging Technology Community talks how blockchain could be effective for ensuring security in the property valuation space. She talks about the concerns of deep face, calming. It's very easy to get a photo of a house and cover up potential problem areas. But with an appraisal, you could put a hash and a timestamp on the photos, the data, the documents to make sure that, you know, they're authentic, and that they haven't been altered. And one thing that it does talk about in here, you know, before blockchain and AI can really come together some of the kinks still need some ironing out. For example, when you create a see through AI box where all of your data is accessible to a third party, you amplify the risk of potential fraud as well. In addition, blockchain and AI still don't resolve the potential of bias within the industry as well. So again, another great article, take a look at it if you get a chance. Next slide, Marvin. And here is our wiki. So if you haven't had a chance to go or wiki page, the links down here at the bottom will drop a link into the chat as well. So over on the left hand side, you've got links to all of our previous presentations that we've done over the last couple years. You can access the presentations and the recording over on the right hand side, you can access all of the various articles that we've talked about here. As articles start to get a little older, we move them into a repository on the left. And then, you know, Marvin mentioned earlier about the LF ID and how to set that up there's information in the upper right hand corner on this site. On exactly how to set up your LF LF ID. Once you do get that set up, you'll start getting notifications when we make updates to the wiki when the next meetings are coming up things of that nature. So do you take an opportunity when you get to do that. And next slide Marvin. And I think we're passing it back over to you. Thanks James that's great information as well. And I can see that our guest speaker is driving so let me do a quick introduction form. So let me introduce Pavan Argo of the CEO of Sun West mortgage and founder and CEO of intelligence international Sun West mortgage is one of the largest independent privately owned financial services companies and intelligence is a fintech venture that is a subsidiary of Sun West mortgage that's developed angel AI and is a leader in the development of empathetic technology. Pavan's vast experience and expertise make him a recognized leader in the mortgage industry. This includes being recognized by housing wire as the 2023 finance leader. In addition, he's provided educational coaching sessions at Loyola Marymount University. Pavan was also the keynote speaker at the 2022 Texas blockchain summit, a premier policy conference for Bitcoin crypto and the blockchain ecosystem. And he was most recently a keynote address at the 2023 Breathe convention in Las Vegas that took place this week. From his beginning as a first generation immigrant to receiving his back bachelors from UC Irvine, my alma mater, and now a leader in the mortgage industry. Pavan has reached the pinnacles of success and epitomizes his tagline. Nothing is beyond reach. Take it away Pavan. That's a very gracious generous introduction. Thank you Marvin. I just, yeah, we just finished Breathe yesterday and took the red eye from Las Vegas I'm driving home about 10 minutes from home. And it'll slip the camera around. You guys be jealous of Puerto Rico. I always seem to be going someplace driving around. I think the next podcast ought to be. If you remember where in the world is Carmen San Diego where in the world is Pavan that that's the next podcast. Yeah, you know that's, there's so much education to be done that's why I'm flying around so much because, and I, and I had a podcast yesterday from Breathe itself on the Vegas conference floor. And it was a little, you know, we had a little bit of fun with little zany. Yeah, it was Vegas and Breathe was kind of like, except with 200 IQ crypto engineers and, and, and alike and AI engineers running around. So we had a very different feel to it than any typical mortgage conference. And so we got in the, we got in the spirit of things in our podcast but the, the, the point though is, is going to something like Breathe, and then going to a mortgage conference, though that mortgage conference just a few days prior to that. There's a vast disconnect between what's what's happening in the edges in the frontier of the tech world, and what's happening in the mortgage world and I think the previous speaker made like hit the nail on the head when he's talked about the resistance due to the industry and you want to do things on paper and you know these days PDFs but basically still. And, and, you know, but the technology is somewhere completely different and the rest of the world is so we're completely different. And the rate of adoption in other industries so rapid. So, the problem is education. And also just letting go that hey, if we, if we don't change if we don't change in this industry we don't adopt the new technology. We are going to get left behind because, and I made a point of this in my podcast yesterday I said the median age for home buyers is 30 and getting younger. And, and if, if, if, if the Biden administration is successful and in doing something about the student debt burden, I mean the median age will drop 25. The only thing that that's best holding back home buyers is is this is a student debt problem. Yeah. So, whereas median age for loan officers is 55. The, these, you know, whatever they're called millennials gen X Gen Z is I don't know what that age group is called these days. They, they want everything instantaneous because they're used to that in the rest of their life experience. And then they start a mortgage process and, and they're talking to somebody who, who's stuck in, you know, 1990. Right. Yeah, it's not compatible. Right. So there's this huge, my education here is, there's a huge opportunity for people for lenders that are forward thinking saying you know what there's this this massive arbitrage. Home buyers are disconnected from the current service provider. So let's, if you jump in and, and address that need with and with the technology solution that they need and they want, you're going to, you're going to dominate the market. This is as big an arbitrage as it was. This is the same kind of conversation we're having the 90s with, with, with the internet. And there's a lot of skepticism that internet will never going to happen. You know, that more we just will never move on to the internet. And, you know, rocket proved that wrong. Yeah, yeah. But then a question that I have for you on that provide is there, I absolutely agree with the point about there being a huge potential arbitrage there. There is so much technical inertia for the companies that are, you know, the 800 pound gorillas in the mortgage industry. They have so much vested interest in maintaining that technology and using that technology and couple that with the regulatory requirements that they use that technology to meet. What is your company, how is Angel AI able to successfully maneuver that because in, I've taken a look at Angel AI, it's a fantastic tool. I think it's absolutely what the younger generation needs and what technical savvy people would like to use. But the mortgage industry seems to be fighting. Yeah, so that's a good question on the regulatory side. So we do have a couple of customers outside of Sun West and Angel AI and my hope is to have dozens more within the industry. Yeah, within the mortgage industry and by the next 69 days this more Angel AI will be open to all industries. That's a different conversation. But the point with Angel AI is that one of our customers is a bank. And they just completed the complete FDIC audit of Angel AI implemented like they're doing the entire loan origination making process on AI. And they got an FDIC audit a month after Federal Reserve put out the the notice saying be careful about AI. Okay, and we've successfully passed that audit. So, you know, yes, it's scary. It's new technology that the Fed themselves don't know the regulators themselves and what to audit. Okay, so it was I'm so glad we were like basically the first ones because we we helped them write the book on how to audit it. And what that's great. Yeah. Right. So, and I think it's good and bad. I think I think we set the standard so high. I think other people can have a lot of trouble. But then you have a defensible technology right. You can meet that regulatory requirement. Others can. Exactly. So, the point is that, you know, if you, if you think it's hard, if you don't believe you can do it. Then you're going to spin around a circle and say, I'm not going to do this. This is too hard. Right. I already go back to like what we said, nothing is beyond reach. Just do it. And figure out what needs to be done. And and do and chop the wood and, and, you know, it's going to build your house. I mixed like 10 metaphors there, but I really love that positive energy that they can do attitude. I think it's, it's one of the things that I really admire about you and how you built your company. I know that you took over the reins of son of us mortgage from your father. You spoke a little bit about some of the differences in how generations different generations approach technology. I mean, my, my own father, he still has a note above the microwave at his house that tells him press 100 and then start for how to use the microwave. Oh, okay. So he can only heat things up for a minute. That's how he uses the microwave. So, and imagine him, I mean, his house is completely paid off. Imagine if he was to try and get a loan today. He would be on the phone with me, Mark. Okay, I need to fill out this app. I'd be stuck there for the rest of the day. Exactly. Talk to me about how, how you help that generation. Yeah, you know, my mom is the same way. She's she has a little sticky note and everything. I tell her what, you know, how hard this work and how that was. But my dad, on the other hand, he was a chemical engineer by education. And so he understands the fundamentals, right, that he understands the math. Yeah. But, you know, he's not a technologist. Right. It's one thing one thing to understand the math and understand the science, but it's not a technologist. So he knows what can be done. Right. Or he knew what could be done. And he saw he had the vision like, hey, you know, basically his thing was to me was always, you know, automate everything I wanted. I wanted everything to be pushed by. Right. Yeah. But, you know, he's not the kind of person that's going to actually use it. He's not the kind of person that's going to write the code or use it, but he knows that. But when he looks at it, he knows if it's working right or not. So, so there's a it's not simply, you know, age and generation is not the point is his vision and perspective. That's what's important. And regarding usability. What I, what I define as a product being mature and usable is defined by can grant my use it. Yeah. A product that grandma can use it is now ready for mainstream. So that's, that's the before the iPhone, the only phone that my mom could use was a simple little bit bones. And then she get confused about this green send button. When do I press the send button when I press the red button to disconnect. She was used to the other phones where you pick up and get it out. Right. Yeah, yeah. So, and then other than that technology, then she then then she can essentially learn how to use the iPhone. And the iPhone was simple enough for Grandma to use. And the only thing she could do is message. She could use WhatsApp. Really, she's really good at WhatsApp. She even sends me little, you know, videos and stuff. Okay. And, and she could kind of fumble her way through email. And that's it. Okay, so the, the, so in order to get full adoption of blockchain technology and AI technology. It's got to be simple blockchain. It's so hard to own a crypto wallet. Yeah. So the only way to can really get that adoption is when you make the user interface simple enough for grandma to use. Okay, and that's why the chat interface is the only way to go. Yeah, so you need to be able to chat with everything my mom can't even use Uber. Right. So she needs to call a car. She tells you she'll, she'll text me. Yeah, I need a car and I'll order the Uber for her. Right. So I mean that's the right there is the perfect use case as to why you need a chat AI in front of every app. Okay, so what will ultimately drive the, the banks to wake up and, and change and start adopting the new technologies is demand. Right. Well, as long as all banks are doing it one way and use and consumers have no choice, then they'll never see the, the, the push. Okay, but as, as you get companies like bars and other companies that come up and, and we're putting alternative technologies and, and we're, we're seeing this arbitrage and, and, and jumping into it. The demand will happen automatically. And because consumers will start demanding so it's a grassroots approach you get the technology in the hands of the people who will value it the most which is the consumers. And the rest will follow. So, so long convoluted way of telling you why I am traveling around so much because it's education getting the word out. And I'm focusing on educating the, you know, consumers and realtors and loan officers at that level. And the, the farther away I get from banking. The faster the education is. Right. So it's faster to educate realtors, realtors accepted much faster than the consumers. And I'm glad you mentioned realtors because in several of the talks that you've had where you actually walk through angel AI, and there's usually quite a few people there and invariably there's always like one or two and sometimes more people that are realtors at the end or brokers at the end that say this is fantastic. How do I sign up, because the technology that you're walking them through shows them how they can be more efficient and make more use or better use of their time. It allows them to take advantage of the interrogative nature and the GPT feature of it. So if you start off with the realtor as the best or the first user of this technology, do you think that that will give you more a much stronger use case than say just having a retail presence where people log into the application and use it themselves? Which do you think is a better starting point to get to adoption? I would have thought that loan officers were a better starting point because we made it so easy for loan officers. But it's turning out because they're feeling, there's some hurdles for loan officers to adopt it because they can use a tool and everything and they can do a lot of stuff for them. But then they still have to work with their own antiquated handwriting departments that doesn't accept angel AI's answers, right? So it's kind of for them it's like it's a two step process. That's one barrier. The second barrier with loan officers is they feel a little threatened by it. The last conference I was at originally connected to Vegas, I had a loan officer who very plainly said that this is going to do my job. And he basically spoke to the room at that moment and told the room that hey all you loan officers in here, if you're not working up your own income and working up your own deal structuring, you're not a real loan officer. And I don't, doesn't matter how good this thing is, you're not a real loan officer. And my, you know, I let him say it's peace, you know, it's fine, but separately, here's the truth of the matter, is if you're not out spending 99% of your time listening business and building relationships with your referral partners, you're not going to survive. Okay, you shouldn't be in at your desk spending an hour setting up each deal, because you know how many more appointments you could have made in that one hour. Yeah. Okay. So, so that's where the fundamental disconnect is and, and so realtors, you know, so the product we offer a bunch of out of the box capabilities and for you realtors they could use it right away and and actually start setting appointments for them. They love it. I mean, it's like it's, it's like free, free deal flow for them. And, and the capabilities that we built in the personal assistant capabilities that we've been the product today for which was a loan officers now we're, we're out expanding it so that over for any industry. Okay, so we already have, you know, LOI is in place with some of the biggest casinos and big car dealerships and so forth. And all brands that you would have, you would know, or one, they're saying, okay, you know, they're, they want to go on beta, they want to be at the beta side for this, because it'll it'll blow up the business so much. So, by creating these partnerships, right, through these partnerships, we get to the consumer as well, we get the consumer on, on Angel AI this way. These brands are pushing, pushing this to their consumers and other consumers are on it. And we're also partnering up with, with various national nonprofits with huge membership basis that wants the capabilities of Angel AI because they want they want to, they want a central place that they can stand in touch easily with their, with their members. We're talking to government bodies that want the same thing. They're like, we get, we get so many inbound inquiries from, from our, like, you know, the city of Tobaha right here, you know, next door to where I live here. They get so much inbound inquiries that they just can't service them all. And so they came to us and said, can we just load all our policies into Angel AI and can it just answer the questions. And I, and the answer is yes. So it's, this is a general purpose AI, it's not just movies industry. The movies industry part of it made it, made it rock solid, because you know obviously you can't get wrong in the movie industry. Right. If you get wrong, then you know you're complaining by buybacks that's that's some people are right now. Yeah, yeah, and those are real expensive. Yes, yes. So, so we're working with nonprofits, universities, large national corporations. They all have the same need they all need to reach out to their customers in a more convenient way in, in a data control curated way. They need, they need to be able to talk to their customers so when a customer ask it, ask them a question. They get an exact answer, not a chat GBT answer. And I'm really glad that you mentioned that difference, because that has been one of the consistent criticisms of AI engines like chat GBT that sometimes they just make up an answer if they don't have enough data. So how have you been able to, I know you guys have been working on your AI engine for at least five years you guys been working on it for a while. How have you been able to segregate that information such that your engine can use it, keep it protected from the world at large, and then continue to update it. I mean, because you're talking about massive computing requirements. And I know you said that that's been one of the key things that have made AI possible is a computing, computing resources are now so much cheaper and so much readily available. So what are, how are you able to build out that engine that from what you've just said is better than chat GBT. Yes, and the answer is that it's not, it's not chat GBT or any of the, you know, so we're not we're not subject to outside data. So we have their own massive data, you know, store where everything, everything goes into. Okay, so and we have our own engine that builds on top of it. Okay, so you have to keep the data pure. If you want to, if you are going to deliver answers that you can bank on. Okay, so here's the thing when I when I put this in front of my loan officers, you know, a couple years ago, I understood that the first time it gave a wrong answer. The loan office will never touch again. They'll say, Okay, that's nice. But let me let me go. Let me let me talk to someone who knows. So one of the requirements when I rolled it out was it has to always be right. It's worthless. If it's kind of right. It's worthless if it's even if it's very close, but not right then it's still worthless because then there's no confidence and loan officers will never use it. So the requirement was has to 100% be right. And then for, for me to get the loan officers confidence. I told loan officers that if it's wrong, I'll balance sheet the loan. And it's, and it's, you know, it's been wrong a couple of times when it was a baby. It's never wrong at this point. I remember you making that claim and I thought man, that that takes a lot of guts for offering to balance sheet the loan and using that true token as well that that's really part and parcel of how you do that. Can you speak a little bit about how what has been the response to the true token. I know that in 2022, everyone was getting away from crypto. Because the Silicon Valley bank, but then you had the true token, which is in a certain sense crypto, but it's slightly different. How has that been received. Oh, yeah, I mean, we, we haven't released the version of the product with the fully blockchain integrated true token. So we're doing it outside of the blockchain right now, kind of old school, but the concept is the same. Okay, so we hope to have that release out in the next, you know, by the end of the year. So the true token, once it's understood it's very, very well received. Okay, so it is an education again like anything is an education process like the realtor has to understand that, you know, you mean you mean with this certificate with this token. You know, it's on the loan. Right. And yes, yes, you can make a no long currency offer. And yes, if the token says an appraisal not required, you can make a no appraisal offer. So once so the only really way for them to to understand it is to experience it once. So it just it is it is a sales heavy process because it's an education heavy process and getting the message out. So every time when whenever a realtor experiences it, they're sold. Because a lot of the real problem is there's a lot of noise out there's a lot of people out there that that making claims also claims, which when you when you look on the hood it's not really there. But they're saying all they're saying using all right same buzzwords and they're talking along the same lines. So the average consumer, whether it's a home buyer's home seller realtor, or even a loan officer, right, your message is just lost in the lost in the in the noise. So are so you know my my strategy is just to yell louder. Yeah. That's a great point. I know I've been asking you a bunch of questions and you've been offering great responses I want to open it up to the other people on the call as well to see if they had any questions of you, and if there were any other thoughts as well. So, anyone else on the meeting have a question for Pavan. We're waiting on questions Marvin so Pavan, and you said you haven't you know release that full new version yet what's the, the rollout plan for that. Well, the original plan was like March, and then it got delayed to June, now we're in September, and I'm thinking now end of the year. I'm curious to what you see as being the next stage for angel AI. Well, the next stage is broad base personal assistant for all industries. And that's that's really, you know, our big, big priority. The, the fully, it's got a fully integrated crypto wallet. And we're working on integrations with a number of banks. So you can actually do your bank transactions through this crypto wallet. You know, crypto wallet doesn't have to keep Bitcoin and it could keep USD in it. Right. So, so, you know, ultimately is going to be a series of financial services offered under what we call angel AI life, which is the, the life stack, your life around an AI guardian angel. Okay, so it's, it's a full stack banking mortgages insurance. Like Robinhood kind of trading and so forth. So that's, that's a bigger vision. But this, some of the key fundamental technologies, you know, they're, they're built. But in my opinion, are not ready for consumer use because when I could use it, you could use it, I'm sure you would have no problem using it. But the standard for consumers to use it, it has to be is really high. I remember when I say it has to be ready for consumer use means means my mom should be able to use it without any, without any hiccups, without any confusion. And that's what takes a long time that refinement is what it takes in taking a long time to get it into production. But I would rather not, I would rather hold off and not release it until it's perfectly refined. The consumers hit it and say, okay, I don't, you don't get a second bite with the consumers. Yeah. Now definitely looking forward to, you know, updates as you guys progress forward with that. Yeah, I mean, we have I literally. Sorry, go ahead. No, no, go ahead and answer the question and I have another question. Yeah, we literally do a release every week we had, we just did one last night, there's a bunch of features came out. We don't publicly broadcast all the features that come out for various reasons, mostly because a lot of these are trade secrets. We do, we do broadcast it to our beta testing groups. So, so we have a beta committee that that, you know, both internal and external customers that that jump on all the features. So some of them we hold until until the broader product is ready. Now, last question for you, Pavan. I work with quite a few interns through this event test and these are developers people very interested in development career, and one of them asked me to specifically ask this question. They're graduating with an undergrad degree in electrical engineering or software development. What would you tell them to do to be successful to be able to get a job at a company like Sun West mortgage as a developer. What guidance do you give them blockchain. Yeah, I what would you tell. No. You just got let's say you just got a degree in electrical engineering. I'll just tell you the way I would interview you. Okay, so. And even though I'm hiring you to work on AI or blockchain or whatever, or user interface, whatever, but you have a degree in electrical engineering. So, I would, I would pull up your, your junior year or senior year. After transistor book, and I would ask you questions from there. Did you learn what you were went to what you went to school for do you really understand those things. If, if you don't understand the fundamentals, you'll never understand the big stuff. Okay, so it's a few when if you went to school for computer science, then I'm going to pull up something from a fundamental computer science theory. And then beyond that, then we look at how they, you know, how they go about problem solving, how they, how they think about solutions. Okay, because the rest of it can. Sorry, call coming. The rest of it, the technologies, the specific technologies can be, can be learned if you have the fundamentals, the rest of it is easy to learn. So, I don't know if that answers the question. Exactly. I think it does it preps them for speaking with with someone like you with the person hiring them. We did get some additional questions in the chat. I'm going to read them off to you. So the first one from Preston Howard from prospecting to origination to underwriting funding and closing. What does Angel ai's tool, practically look like in everyday use. What is it eliminating, and is it possible to see a demo. Yeah, just go to angel ai.com and click on the chat with Angel ai and you can start using it right away. And, you know, you could, should you go in there, you can, you can ask her for a T shirt. I always say just do that first. It's a fun, fun little thing to do. Then you can just start asking her mortgage questions, you can, whatever you want to do. And if you break her, let me know. If you find some bugs, let me know. And precedent I also recommend taking a look at some of the YouTube videos that have on has put out there. They show some of the actual functionality. So if you have on does a great demonstration, which I think some of your employees and, and I think one of them was your daughter and one of them so definitely take a look at those YouTube videos. Those are great. Another question. Yeah, and then you can also register for a workshop to go to angel ai.com over slash workshop. And you can register for a workshop and I'll see I'll give you a special SMS number. Angel ai. The SMS to angel ai. And I don't know what the numbers translate to on that, but you use a keypad and you can convert that to numbers. And you just SMS that number and you say, you just say your name, your email address, and when you have one hour available. You know, date and time when you have one of our trainers will schedule you in. Thank you for one. I think that that gives Preston a good answer. We also have another question from Elizabeth green and this is just every everyone in it but I think you can answer it as well. Well, have on. Can anyone please name a lender who will use carbon credit as collateral or payment, even in that three way swap. I think this goes beyond mortgage and is just more within the blockchain and tokenization realm, since they're talking carbon credit. I saw that question come in and while we've been sitting here I've been trying to Google for any potential lenders in the mortgage area but Elizabeth as of right now I haven't been able to find anything. But if something comes up, we'll grab it and we'll post it out to the wiki. Thanks James. Pavan, I know you've gotten to your destination you've been doing a lot of traveling so we'll let you go at this point. Thank you very much for coming in and speaking to our group this has been very very insightful. I'm so impressed with what you've been doing with Sunwes mortgage and intelligence and it's always great having you come speak to our group. Thank you very much. Thanks Marvin. Thanks for accommodating my schedule. Cheers. No problem. Bye. Okay, everyone. We still have one other item on the agenda that I wanted to get to. I'm still showing my screen and I'm going to go to the next slide. Hey, what we wanted to do within the hyperledger group is send out a survey to all of the participants and really to the population in general. What I'm showing on the screen now is a link to a survey and Elma if you can put the link in the in the chat as well. What we want to do with the survey is really find out from you our audience and and participants in the mortgage subgroup. What topics are you interested in seeing or excuse me what topics are you interested in hearing about I'm going to go ahead and click on the link. Here are the questions. I'm going to go through them really quickly. Which area would you like to see more presentations technologies specific use cases vendor or expert presentations like provide anything else you'd like us to talk about. Which technologies are the most interesting or relevant to your company and select any of those three hyperledger fabric, other blockchain, AI and blockchain smart contracts. I won't read all of those. What additional topics would you like to see regulatory I know that we've been trying to get someone from the regulatory agencies to come and speak. We're still actively working on that. Would you guys like to see someone from the MBA or MISMO other regulatory bodies or any other topics. And then the last two questions share your thoughts on the level of technology and complexity in the presentations and whether you find it suitable. So when we first started going through this we were going through proof of concepts, and we were showing actual errors that our team was getting as we were doing those proof of concepts so a bit more technical then is that something you guys would like to see on occasion as well. The level of technology is appropriate. Do you guys want to see more business oriented presentations in. Please let us know that feedback and then last question open ended question. Any additional feedback you'd like to provide how are we doing we've been doing this for a year now. James and the rest of the team have been doing a fantastic job but if there's anything else that you think we can improve upon that I can improve upon. By all means, let us know we want this to be as interactive and as reflective of the audience as possible so please take the survey submitted it's anonymous so if we're doing bad for doing crap tell us we're doing crap. But just let us know we'd like to get your feedback. And I think we're going to have the survey open for the next month. Because we'll be advertising it out to people that weren't able to attend today and we're looking to incorporate the group's feedback into our presentations for next year. Yep, absolutely so as James says, please take the survey let us know what you think. And with that, I'll open it up to any additional questions from the rest of the team from any of the attendees. And if there aren't any questions. I wanted to say thank you to everyone for participating. We're starting to get that towards the end of the year. We'll have a new topic in October, November, we always take December off so just to give you guys a heads up. And thank you very much we'll go ahead and wrap it up give you guys six minutes back to your day. Thank you everyone. Take the survey. Have a great day everybody.