 So, would you like to tell me about your program? I work here at Shkakamakwai Health Center, within the traditional program, and I've been working here now for six years full-time, but I've been here a little bit longer than that. Traditional program is the heart of the center, so we have our knowledge keepers, we have Gloria Shkabesens and Ron McGregor, our elders, and knowledge holders, and we also have Rodney Eli and his wife Dorothy, and they're from Batchewana First Nations, and we have Nokomis Hilda Najewan, and so those are our elders. Those are the ones that we go to for counsel and guidance, and so I say that they're the ones that help oversee everything within the traditional program, and so anytime that we have new ideas or things that we're wanting to do, we always make sure that we have their guidance. So Ron and Gloria, they're the ones that are here most often throughout the week, and also Nokomis Hilda, she takes care of the community center, and Ron and Gloria are here. We have a medicine lodge room, again that's at the center of this building, and we have our clinical upstairs that kind of all works around the traditional room, so that, you know, making sure that it's at the heart of the center as well. And we service our First Nations families, and our First Nations people, Métis and Inuit, and also their families that are a part of that too, because we all know that, you know, we have those non-native people too as well that are married into our First Nations families, so as a community, as a whole, we embrace all walks of life, and that's part of that education too as well. There's many things that we do here, making sure that we have a safe place for people to come that are looking for that guidance, who are wanting to find their way, wanting to find that connection, looking for identity, looking for family, looking for their own cultural path, and what that all means. And being in an urban setting, it's a place for people to come together and to find that. And we are a health center, so you know it's about taking care of the physical as well, but we know that in the work that we do, we also want to take care of the mind-body spirit that all comes together, and make sure that all of those things are addressed here. So of course when we look at traditional aspects of things, then we know that that's a way of taking care of spirit. So where was I? Age group, do you help? Right from our Benoji suck that are coming into this world, to right when our elders, and so your whole entire life, all of those ages that, you know, we take care of and cater to everyone, throughout their whole life in the best way that we can. How do you measure the success of the program? I think since we have been doing fast camps, we've been doing medicine camps, we have youth drum group, we have medicine walks that we do when those harvesting times are in peak, so mainly throughout the summer. We've also been asked to go out into the community and do different things with different organizations, and I think how you measure the success is when people come back and they share, or they share out in the community too as well, some of the things that they learned. When we did workshops here for our young boys in particular and long hair workshops, we did those teachings and we had those young role models and those men that have their hair long and they came in and they gave those teachings and the feedback that came from the parents and how certain things, how it changed for their young boys and what it did for them. And even some of those parents, the feedback they gave in terms of the brotherhood that's formed with the young youth that come to the drum group, just the feedback that we're given. And each time that we do fasting camp, it's getting bigger and bigger and it's growing. And so I think when we see people come back time and time again and we hear some of those testimonials too. That kind of travel throughout the community and it comes back to us. And so I think that's how we're able to measure our success I guess is just by hearing some of those, the good medicine that we are trying to do here in the traditional program and then how it kind of goes out into the community and then how it comes back to us. It also seems like you have a high demand for all of your programs as well. Yeah, we do. And that's another measure of success. We often get many calls from Cameron College, Laurentian University and all of those schools when students are wanting to do placements. Yeah, we get a lot of people wanting to come here and we're like, we don't have any room. But we've had quite a few students come through. There's these doors too. What is Indigenous education to you? The only way that I can really answer that I think is just by talking a little bit about my own education. When I look at, I'm kind of a unique case in terms of my early education. My parents had started a community out in St. Charles and they started their own school, Native Way School because of their own experience as children in the school systems back then and my mom, you know, going to residential school and they're planning their family so how are they going to do things differently? And that's when they started their journey and their walk and finding their identity and finding out who they are as Anishinaabe people because we know in our history that that was lost. And so in doing that, they decided that, you know, they started to talk about this idea and this dream of starting a Native Way School that was culturally based. That's where I went to school and it was about being out on the land. It was about learning our creation stories, our teachings, our songs, our ceremonies but also learning about our connection with Mother Earth and all of creation and what are the roles and responsibilities that go along with that and respecting that relationship with creation. And so to me, that's what education is about. I didn't learn how to read and write until I was about 12, 11, 12. Those things weren't introduced to me until then and I remember my dad having to take me to one of his classes when he was at the university and at that time I still didn't know how to read and write but I remember drawing pictures on the blackboard and just kind of observing the class and what was all taking place and knowing what he was listening to him and knowing what he was teaching about and he was, you know, talking about Indigenous way of thinking and Anishinaabe way of thinking and how everything is in circle, you know, circular and so that whole philosophy, I guess and so that's what he was teaching and talking about and I remember looking around at all of these young students who were almost adults and knowing that they were in a higher education system and looking at them and thinking everything that he is talking about everything that he is teaching are all things that I already know and I'm just a kid who doesn't even know how to read and write but I know all of what he is talking about and so that was a pivotal moment for me and that's something that will always always be with me but always help me because knowing that this was the first time that they were ever hearing about that way of thinking that way of knowing, that way of learning and for me, being just a small child already had all of those things and they are only just now getting it and they are having to come to university to get that and so for me, I think when we are looking at Anishinaabe education it's almost hard for me to put it in a university setting like even though I know that a lot of those things that you learn about is for the first time but at the same time, nobody is really teaching still the way that I was taught and so like land based all of our things were done in oral oral communication, storytelling and that's how I learned yeah, that's what Anishinaabe education is to me is hands on being out on land, experiencing fasting, ceremony what is your identity knowing your Anishinaabe name knowing your clan system but also understanding those roles and responsibilities and how they tie into your character your personality, how everything is linked Is the term indigenous one that you would normally use? Well, you heard me because I kind of, you know I was switching back and forth I know that's one that is widely used out in, you know, our turtle island or used in our society now if I had a preference I would say Anishinaabe but I've, you know, I've had people ask me if I was offended if they said, you know native or Indian and I don't think I would take offense because it's not the person's fault you know, that's just something that has been ingrained in us to think and be a certain way but I, you know, I will take the opportunity to let them know that if I had a choice it would be Anishinaabe because that's who I am What is your vision for the future of Anishinaabe education in your community and then throughout Canada? To see more organizations schools, universities, colleges and they are doing it they are doing it they are baby steps but it's so much more than just what you can read in a book that's only going to take you so far you need to be able to feel use all of your senses that's why we were given so you need to go out and sit on the land there's so many things out there that you can't experience in a classroom so I think that education is is about what is our connection with our mother what is our connection to the birds what is our connection to the animals what is our connection to the plants our language needs to be at the forefront of our education I think I know because that's very much a part of who we are and we are very kind of descriptive people too I was told once that the language is like 3D it'll put everything into 3D and I would also like to see more and more in our education you know what is our history that's something that's not shared in the schools out there and we actually just started looking at not while we just started but we are actually doing where we are starting a school for our children Kenna Motion and it's grassroots and it's very small right now but that's what we're doing for our children and it's land based it's culture based we're looking at you know the 13 moon calendars so we're going to look at and it's going to be immersion it's going to be language every single day they start their day in circle time in the lodge and so ceremony is incorporated in that and so that's what I want to see for the future is more schools like that and our children need to know our history they need to know what happened so they have a better understanding of why we are the way we are and why our parents are the way they are and so that there's no blame and all of those things can be healed and those but they need to know first and so I think that's so huge and that's important so we need to look at where we came from before we can move on to the future and correct some of those things can you think of any types of information or resources that would help to achieve your vision? I'll learn Google's one so that's a good information there but also going and that's how my parents got started was they went and thought out those people who still carry the knowledge and because there's only so much that you're going to find in books there's only so much that you're going to find on the internet but if you want that 3D aspect of it then go and find those knowledge keepers and so looking for organizations like this like Shkakumakoi like the Friendship Center those type of organizations within your community wherever that may be and asking where are those ones who still carry that knowledge?