 OTAN, Outreach and Technical Assistance Network. All right, so officially, hello, everyone. Good morning. Welcome to our session, California Adult Ed Technology and Distance Learning, a look at the data. My name is Anthony Burick. I'm the coordinator for distance learning projects with OTAN. And I want to introduce my co-presenter, Matthias. Oh, hi. Thanks, Anthony. I'm an adult education researcher. I'm doing my PhD at Simon Frasier University that's in Vancouver, Canada. And I work also for other projects with the Canadian Immigration Authorities and Language Programs. And I'm sorry, I should say. And Anthony and I are working on the annual distance learning report that we're sharing some preliminary data with you today. Thanks for having me. And welcome from Canada, our neighbor to the north. Thank you. So here's our agenda for the next hour. It's just a little bit about OTAN. And then we'll talk about the distance technology and distance learning report. We also want to talk about the California Adult Education Digital Learning Guidance. So hopefully by now, you're familiar with it. You've heard about it. Maybe you've looked at it. Maybe you've read sections of it. But we want to talk about the guidance today as well. We're going to take a look at the data. It's sort of a slice of the data that we're going to look at today. We're still actually putting the report together. But we wanted to give you just kind of a sense of some of the data that's going to be included in the report. And then we'd like to do an activity both with folks in the room and for those of you online, give you a chance to get into smaller groups, talk about some of the data a little bit more intensively, see what questions you have, what things come to mind when you look at this data. We're interested in getting some feedback from you all on kind of your reaction to the data that we're going to share today. Kind of as we go along here, we'll take questions. But also if there are questions towards the end, we'll address them at that point as well. And so I do have a bitly link here. So in the folder, there's a copy of the slides that we're going to look at today. And then also when we get to the activity, our activity documents are going to be there as well. So these resources will be available after today. So feel free to take a look at them, come back to them later at some points. Great, Anthony. I put the bitly link in the chat for the online folks. Great. Thank you, Matthias. Appreciate it. Thank you for setting it up. Yeah, sure. OK, just a reminder about OTAN. So we are one of three state leadership projects in California that support adult education. We focus on technology application and integration. And for this particular report, we actually do a lot of work with our partner, CASAS. So CASAS says, you know, collect data. They're the data folks, the assessment folks, the data accountability folks. And so a lot of the data that we get comes from CASAS. So that's one of our data sources. And we'll talk about that a little bit later. But we just want to give a shout out to CASAS for the work that they do that benefits us when we put the data, the distance learning report together. OK, Matthias, over to you on the report itself. Absolutely. I'm just also setting up the transcript here. So just so everybody knows online, there is also the live transcript available. Fantastic. Thanks, Anthony. So starting in 2001, adult education agencies submitted what became the annual technology and distance learning plan, or TDLP for short. It was meant to capture an agency's ongoing and proposed technology integration goals. There was also a self-assessment of teacher technology skills and a learner survey on technology access and usage. The aggregated information from the TDLP has been included in OTAN's annual reports since then. In the 2016-17 OTAN annual report, there was a comprehensive distance learning report for the first time. It took a deeper dive into both the TDLP and the national reporting system, NRS for short, the data from there. In the annual report since then, TDLP and NRS data has been included and reviewed with more in-depth analysis. In the last few years, recommendations for further research were also added. And recently, the TDLP was incorporated into a new reporting deliverable known as the Continuous Improvement Plan, or CIP for short. Agency technology goals and the teacher and learner survey data are gathered for the CIP and are still key elements of distance learning reports. For the last report, Penny, and shout out to Penny. Is Penny in the room? She is. Yes, I'm here. All right, fantastic. Good to see you. So yes, for the last year's report, Penny and I made some changes. Because we wanted to move beyond the quantitative analysis. And so we added some qualitative findings from focus groups with selected agencies about what and how they were making the shift to online and back to in-person or back to blended. For the last two years, the report has also referenced data from prior years, provided comparisons and offered insights into some of the new delivery models, such as high-flex options. There were great presentations yesterday. We included data from the program implementation survey and added findings from the student technology intake survey. This year, instead of the focus group, Anthony and I decided to do a survey with all agencies so that we can cast the net wider and get a better sense of where things are heading. You will see some trends in the data that we're sharing with you today. This year's reports with findings from the last program year will be available a little bit later in the spring. We are sharing some preliminary findings with you today. And we will use these for our discussion today. We may also mention some of the discussion points from today in the report. That's why we will be asking you to take notes in our shared Google Doc during the discussion. And that goes both for online and for the in-person participants of the session. After we have a look at some selected findings, you can join one of those three groups in person or in the breakout rooms. And Anthony and Penny and I will drop in to see how things are going. But first, Anthony will tell you all about the guidance. Please, Anthony. Thank you, Matthias. OK. So we just wanted to make kind of a reference to this new document that has appeared in the fall of last year, the California Adult Education Digital Learning Guidance. And so again, hopefully by now you've had a chance to take a look at it. You've heard about it. You know how it's organized. You know what the guidance is about. Basically, it's really meant for the adult education field to kind of have a sense of all of the different topics that are related to digital learning, learning online, in blended environments, in high-flex environments. And a lot of different things that go into digital learning, this is sort of the state of digital learning. So we actually, on the OTAN website, you can get a copy of the guidance from there. We're actually building out our digital learning guidance website. And we hope to add a lot more information there as well. So if you are familiar with the guidance, this is basically how the guidance is organized. So there is an introduction. And then there are six chapters, which form sort of the core of the guidance. And you can see the topics that are listed here. And so Matthias and I, when we started looking at this year's report, this inserting report, it's hard not to notice the fact that there's now this guidance document that's been created that's very extensive. A lot of folks in the field actually contributed to the guidance document. And so one of the things that we're trying to do, starting with this year's report, is think about the data, but sort of in a different framework. And that framework would come from the digital learning guidance document itself. So for example, you may notice that I've bolded chapters 2, 3, and 5 here. So some of the data that Matthias is going to talk about, these topics are mentioned in the guidance document directly. So for example, a lot of the student data is sort of interesting when you take a look at chapter 2, which talks about ensuring digital equity and access. So this is really like what is sort of the state of students? What kind of devices do they have? What is their ability to connect with online learning blended learning and high-flex learning? What sort of digital skills do they possess? All of you sort of face that on a daily basis. What are the skills that students either have or don't have? And we're finding that the data directly corresponds with the topics that are covered in the guidance. So starting with this year, we'll see how far we can get into it. But we really like to sort of create a tighter connection between the data that we collect for this report and the topics that are mentioned in the guidance so that for all of you, it will give a lot more kind of hard data on these topics that are covered in the guidance. So that's kind of the sort of new framework that we're operating under. And as we get more into our reporting, we find that probably we'll be able to cover all of the chapters. Maybe not the last chapter. So the last chapter of fostering healthy, equitable, and inclusive digital communities talks about topics like, for example, social-emotional learning is mentioned in that chapter. I'm not sure if any of us are collecting data on adult education and SEL at this point. But maybe in the future, that might be a recommendation that we come up with that we may find that we really aren't collecting data on chapter seven topics. So maybe that's a new direction that we need to go in in terms of data collection. But again, we're really trying to put these two things together in a much tighter format. So more to come on that when the report comes out, as Matias mentioned later this year. OK, so Matias, I'm going to turn it back over to you. And Matias is going to talk about some of the data that we want to share today in the presentation. Right. Thanks, Anthony. And what I'm sharing now, you will also be able to see in those Google Docs that we set up for the discussion groups and, of course, in the slides that are in the shared folder that we shared a bit.ly link to before. So what you see here, the chart and this slide and the table on the next slide show the combined adult student enrollment for regular classroom and distance learning students for the program year from July 2017 to June 2022. Last program year, the number of distance learning students declined by 24% while the number of students in regular classrooms increased by 28% compared to the previous year. You can see that in the chart nicely here with the blue line tilting upward and the red one tilting downward again. And that's not surprising, of course, with the return to in-person instruction. So on the next slide, you see the same data in the table. So in the table on top, you can see the student number corresponding to the chart. We just looked at in the last program year, 2021 to 2022. There were 187,371 students in the regular classrooms and 67,588 in distance learning classrooms. This is the increase of students in regular classroom and a decrease of students in distance learning over the previous year that is noticeable in the chart as I just said before. And that's not surprising given the end of some of the limitations and challenges with respect to in-person program delivery due to the pandemic during the 2020-21 program year. And in that year, when there was a decline in regular classroom enrollments and an increase in distance learning enrollments. Before the start of the pandemic in 2018-2019, there were 299,720 students in regular classrooms and 10,574 distance learning students reported. Notable is that regular classroom enrollments were only reduced by more than half and that demonstrates a need for in-person instruction which increased again of course in 2021-22. At the same time, distance learning enrollments had increased by more than eight times in 2020-21. And that because of the pandemic. On the chart below, when students were asked on the table below, excuse me, when the students were asked during the last program year if they wanted to continue learning online, 63.1% said they would like to continue here and that compared to 93.9% in the previous year. Yeah, next slide please. Thank you. When students were asked how they connected to the internet, less students, 76.8% said that they used a connection at home than last year when it was 86.9%. In program year 2021-22, more than a third, 35.8% used their phone to get online compared to only a quarter, 22.6% in the program year 2020-21. In the same year 2021-22, no, in the last year, sorry, 2021-22, laptops or computers were still the most common choice of devices used for online learning at 64.3% and that was compared to 76% in the previous year. Alongside cell phones at 64.1% and tablets, 19.7%. But there are more than four times more respondents in this last year and that's 4.3% that you see in the table below there on the right who said that they did not have a device at all and the year before there was only 1%. Next slide please. Thank you, Anthony. Over one-third of students said that they had to share the device with others at home. There were also data limits that kept 19.4% of respondents from learning and 15.7% did not have a quiet place to study this last year. And that was compared to 12.6% in the previous year. Given the limited access to in-person services at adult schools and places with public internet connectors during the pandemic, of course not being able to use a device and connect to the internet at home meant that limited access meant also that that was limited access to educational opportunities. When students were asked if they had ever taken an online class before, 54.4% said that they had and that's compared to 71% in the previous year. And on the one below, when students were asked about what would help them to study online, 14.1% said that they needed a mobile hotspot to get on the internet. 41.2% said flexible study times, 27.3% said a device to study online and 24.8% said that they needed assistance with getting into online textbooks or classes. And 15.1% said that technical troubleshooting would be helpful. These needs increased by between one and three percentage points compared to the previous program year. So that's going up that need. Yes. Sorry, Ryan raises hand. So Ryan, are you going to come on? Please. Sorry, I could have put it in the chat if you prefer. No, no, no, that's all right. Yeah, I'm just curious what the end is on this survey. I'm sorry, what's the... How many respondents we have? How many respondents? Oh, this is data. This is that's a good question. Why? I can check for that. This is data that we get from CASAS. Yes. So this is this is a this is a pretty large sample. I thought so. That's incredible. Yeah, quiet place to study is concerning and has me thinking. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's and that's very good points, Ryan. And that's in the discussion groups, I think you can together discuss that a little bit more and then also document your discussion. That'll be very helpful for us to get some some input there. I appreciate that. Yes, Anthony. So let's move on to professional development. It's the next slide. Great. Thanks. So teachers were also asked to rate their skills and the importance they place on various tasks. In the program year 21-22, teachers rated themselves equally strong as in the previous program year with respect to integrating technology into daily instruction at 20% acting as a guide for learners when researching on the internet at 19% and using technology to manage, organize their work at 18.9%. When they were asked about the importance placed on tasks, they rated integrating technology into daily instruction at 70.8% using technology to manage and organize my work at 17.3% and troubleshooting problems that occur when using technology during and for instruction at 17.1% the highest. So that was the last column that you see here in the slide. And on the last slide, about the areas of technical needs and improvements what teachers said that they needed, more than half agreed or strongly agreed that they needed more time to learn to use applications. That's 58.8% in this last program year and that's compared to 62.4% in the year before. A third indicated that they needed more time to integrate technology into the curriculum. That's 33.2% compared to 36% the year before. Less than in the previous year said that they needed more options for professional development in the areas of technology. This year 28.4% compared to 36.2% the previous year and that they needed more technical support to keep computers and applications running through assigned technical support. This year there was 29.4% compared to 33.1%. And that's combined, the strongly agree or the agree. Okay, so yes, on the next slide you'll see our discussion groups. And so we would like to, if possible, I don't know how many people, how many people are in the room, Anthony? So we have about 10 in the room here and I think we have about 10, 12 online or so I think. Yeah, I see 13 that of course counts myself and you probably, so it's about even. Okay, so yeah, so what we wanna do here is we have three Google Docs set up and if you're in the folder, you should see them there. So we've organized, again, what we're sharing today is just a very kind of small slice of the data, right? But Matthias and I think that these are pretty, the topics themselves are pretty heavy, they're pretty weighty. These are probably topics that you're talking about at your agency already. So the first topic is about blended distance learning. And so those were kind of the first slides that we looked at. The second topic is digital access and equity. Those were the second two slides that we looked at about devices and connecting and things like that. And then the last group, the last topic is professional development. Those are the slides that we just saw, that Matthias just showed to us. So what we wanted to do, so maybe for about the next 10 or so minutes, 10, 15 minutes is we'd like folks to get into smaller groups, sort of depending on the topic that you're most interested in. And let me switch to the folder that might be a little easier. I'm gonna create three breakout rooms, okay? Yeah, actually I think we, Matthias, I already have the room set up. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. So I couldn't see them. So I guess you have to activate them for me to see them, right? The, yes, we need to turn them on, exactly. Yeah. More bro. So here we go. This is what we're looking at. So we have, so again, we have a copy of our slides in there, but then we have the three Google Docs. So let me just open up the first one for you. And I also put the bit.ly links for the Google Docs in the chat. Thank you, Matthias. So again, you'll see the slides, you'll see the slides that reference this particular topic on blended and distance learning. And then at the, so this is sort of our, sorry, at the bottom here, below the slides. This is sort of our prompt for the groups. So when you take a look at the data, sort of what are your initial observations? Anything that stands out to you? Any questions that you might have? Any and all of those comments, questions, ideas, go ahead and put them in the Google Doc at the very bottom. So let's come back together as a whole group. But we have our online friends back in the room. So what we can do is, why don't we go through each of the three groups? We'll start with the first group on the blended and distance. And maybe just get kind of, some of your comments, things that stood out. Why don't we start with the, let's start with the online folks. What were some of the topics that came up for you in your discussion? Nothing. Yeah, that's okay. Okay, so online folks, who was in the blended and distance discussion group? Is this a specific little sheet? No, I didn't. I was talking in typing. There were three of us in there, Anthony. Florence was there, and I'm sorry, I missed the name of the gentleman. That was me, Corey. Corey, yes. Okay, great. And we talked about a variety of things, but we just kind of discussed our different options. And I brought back up the concern about having a place to study and work in a quiet environment, a good learning environment. And we were kicking around. I learned at Pittsburgh, they have six hours a day, Pittsburgh Unified Adult, correct me if I'm wrong, six hours a day where they have open lab time for students available, but they don't offer it at nighttime. They don't have that at nighttime. In Sweetwater, we don't have it at all. We don't have any true lab time set up like that. And so yeah, even in our own two institutions, there's a lack of access and opportunity. And we talked about how there's no time at night. And in California, as many of you know, the Californians know, there's typically, or not typically, but often multiple families in one household, which means a lot of kids and a lot of learning happening. And that makes it harder for the adults to learn. So maybe we need to think about providing opportunities at night while night classes are going on for daytime students to come and work in a nice place. Okay. Thank you, Ryan. Any other topics that came up in that group one, besides the quiet place to study? Yeah, I'll just say quickly that we talked about the second question there about the what's your feeling about online learning online? And just how grateful I am that we have that data because it's a way for us to actually use data to make our decisions and not kind of intuition or our own biases or our own preferences. So I'm really excited about that data. And I'm looking forward to seeing how that evolves over time. Great. Thank you, Corey. Okay. What about our group? How about our in-person group? What things did you talk about in your group on the blended in distance? So we talked about, so some of our schools are different. So before COVID in terms of regular classroom participation and then distance learning, some of our schools already had a different learning program as an option before COVID and some of our schools didn't. So that played into a factor whether the new mandate after COVID is to come back to face-to-face. And that's what people transition from Zoom to now mandatory face-to-face or whether students transition to lesson doc. People seem to like online systems learning. How can we accommodate our students a little bit more of those who need it? And some of our programs actually did adopt more distance learning in terms of the same as before or some of us decided no face-to-face. So that might be one of the reasons why it seems that in-person classrooms seem to decline from before and also it might be that the population that we're serving in this economy in California, a lot of people are moving out of the state might have to do economics and might have to be that more people need to work in jobs to survive in the economy. Might be why more in-person members have declined also to be declining, it went up a little bit but it seems to be on decline from 17 to 27,000 members. Aaron, and then anything else you want to say? Yes, we were speculating about different factors that might contribute to that chart we were looking at the spikes and declines. And then we were questioning the survey about the feelings about learning online because it looks like it's from an intake survey so are these returning students that are maybe filling this out for not the first time because if they're continuing to learn online means they've already been doing that versus I don't think I can. So yeah, I was kind of myself anyway I was kind of wondering how students were thinking about that question and those options answer choices. But that is a good question too is who exactly are these students, right? Are they inverse farmers to the adult program or have they been with us for the last couple of years and are just sort of continuing it with their interest in staying online? Right, if they had much support in that of course we're looking to improve our program and the supports we provide so might we change their minds? Yeah. Isn't that wondering for the students that said they have to look at my glasses on that they can learn online right now? I don't think I can learn online. How many of those responded to the idol metal fight place? Right, so yeah, what are the, so the question, I think ultimately the question is where do some of these data points connect, right? So are the people who say, do the people who say I don't think I can learn online right now is it because they don't have the quiet place? They don't have the flexibility. They don't have enough, they don't have a dedicated device for themselves. So right, and Matthias is there, I don't know, you're the data analyst here. Can we make some of those connections? Have we made those in previous reports? No, no, we haven't. But the questions are, they're very good questions. That would be something, if we wanted to investigate that in the next report, for example, we would have to talk, I think, to Angela and see, right? Angela, she's the data analyst wizard at OTAN and then asked specifically for to get data filtered, for example, by those two questions and to see where the intersections are. I'm sure she can do that, but we definitely would have to ask specifically for those kind of things. Yeah, so those are good things that we should include Matthias and the recommendations for the last section. Absolutely, yeah. Okay, so let's move on to the topic too. So Penny and your group, I think we didn't have an online group, but why don't you go ahead and let us know what you were talking about in group two? Well, we were looking at the second question and talked about that for a little bit, which device, oh, on the first slide. Okay. Which device do you or can you use for online learning? And we thought, you know, it might be helpful to have some more clarifying questions so we can really understand when students might choose to use one device over another if they have more than one. And then also maybe asking the question in a way where we can see which students have only a cell phone. How many students can only use a cell phone? How many students might have a cell phone in the laptop that they can choose from? So, you know, changing that question and maybe adding a few more to give some deeper information about that. Also, we were saying for the fourth option, I don't have a device for that question. That is probably also going to, that percentage is probably higher than it actually shows here because students who don't have a device might not be taking the survey and repeating it. And I don't know if you wanted to add. Yeah, we were talking about the quiet places, that he too is just trying to understand that more on the following slide. Because, you know, just as hard to understand that I was sharing like in our program, we tried it free and post pandemic because we had really bad luck with it. So I was thinking, you'd be nice to know like what programs these students connected with because like our ESL has zero interest in our school but our high school programs really love it. They love having a study hall and make them in even though they can do everything at home. And so we talked a little bit about that. And then we were encouraged that there's a 55% retention rate basically that they've taken on online class before and are returning. So Lisa, there is some type of like consistency with students that you're getting. That's great. Anthony, the question came up, how do, and this relates to this, I think, how do agencies get their hands on data that is collected through the service that OTAN conducts. So the student technology survey and the teacher and the self-assessment, right? Right. And is it possible, and then my follow-up question would be, is it possible for agencies to get the raw data for their agencies so they can run those kind of queries themselves? So in the room here, we have Renee Collins who's the director of OTAN who can speak to both of those points. So Renee. Right. So the student technology intake survey is available to our VOA agencies via the online application and reporting site. Actually, I believe it's under resources or maybe it's on F, but that should be available and up-to-date at all points for VOA agencies. If you are a non-VOA agency who has been doing the student technology intake survey and we do want you to do that, so if you're a paid agency and not a VOA-funded agency, that data can still be shared with you, but you would have to specifically contact OTAN, you know, VR support box that we'd be able to probably email that information to you. As far as the teacher self-assessment, that is going to only come out and be released with every continuous improvement plan, which is generally done on an annual basis. But this year, because we were doing the request for application for VOA, there is not a CIP. And so the teacher survey will not be released this year. So it will be coming out again next year. If you do, if your agency does want to have access to it, you can make a special request for it, but generally speaking, it's not going to be made available to everybody. But the student technology intake survey has recently been updated. And as of July 1st, you'll notice some differences on it. The advisory team that originally built the survey came back together within the last month and made recommendations for improvement. So those will go into effect as of July 1st. And so anything July 1st or later should be that new, your agency should be utilizing that new survey. Okay, thanks, Rene. Yeah, okay. Why don't we move on to the group three? Group three talked about professional development. And why don't we start with the, I know there was a group online that talked about that. So do any of the folks in the group three want to speak to the topics that you talked about? Let's start with the online folks. Anybody in group three that was talked about professional development online. Hi, Anthony, can you hear me okay? Hey, Tanya. Yes. Yeah, we can. Hey. So we talked about, in particular, the concept of time. So in that professional development slide, that second one on the document. And the concept of time and how, you know, what does time mean? Does it mean paid time? Does it mean literal time? Because perhaps they're connected, you know, if people have more paid time, maybe they'll then have more actual time to participate in professional development. So we discussed that a bit. And I think someone else in the group had a comment and then Matthias joined the group. And then someone else in the group had a comment and then Matthias joined us and helped us out with trying to figure out that first slide, because there was a little bit of confusion there for us. Okay. Thank you, Tanya. How about the, our, how about our, how about our in-person group? What were you talking about with the, with the PD? We had like a great discussion about our challenges with PD. And we talked about how the transition can be overwhelming for some people transitioning from different technologies. But also one of the things that we really delved into was the consistent PD offerings, like the consistently give those offerings, but also that you have to follow through with the professional development and it's an agency effort and OTAN and CalPro can help out with that. But the important thing is the follow-through with the professional development. It has to be admin teachers and other staff that participate in it so that it can be successful. And it's not just the tools. You can't just be given the tools. You have to teach how to use those tools and then follow through with teaching how to use those tools. That was in that shop. Great. Great. Any other talk? No, you gave us in that shop. Okay, super. So this is great stuff. Matthias, do you have any, I know that you spent more time with the online group. So you want to add any, add anything? No, it all came up and the access to the data was one of the, one of the main points. So thank you for clarifying that. Okay. Great. Yeah. Thank you, Anthony. And for. We're doing the in-person. Groups as well. That works. Fantastic. Yeah. So if you can, if he, whether you were in-person or online, if you can get your comments onto the Google docs, that'd be great. As we, as we said, Matthias and I are starting to work on the. The final version of the, of the report. And so we want to make sure to be able to refer to some of these comments. And then we'll be back when we put the, when we put the report together, especially the, so that in the report towards the end of the report, Matthias does a very good job of sort of organizing like, so what are some things that we should be looking at, that we're not looking at now, right? Or what are further questions about the data that we actually have collected that maybe we need some more information about. So like when Monica was saying, well, it would be good if actually we had a little bit more depth to some of these questions that we're asking, right? Because on the surface, it seems like good information, but actually it's, we could use a little bit more clarity and sort of fine tuning of some of those questions. So that's, that's great feedback. That's what we can include in the reports so that we're sort of all aware maybe future directions for data collection when it comes to, when it comes to upcoming reports. And then again, as well, like I said earlier, we're trying to, we are trying to make this connection between the data that we're taking a look at and this guidance document. This guidance document is really, is providing a great framework for these big topics that we're trying to tackle, trying to tackle at our agencies, but it's really helpful to connect data with those topics, right? So we, we have a sense of the sort of, you know, where the issues lie or are things going okay, or where do we need improvement? And then you can also use that, you know, when you're looking at your own individual agencies as well, like how are you comparing to what's going on a, on a state level or a larger level? So I think we're almost done. Matias, you want to, you want to, any closing thoughts here before we finish up? No, well said. Anthony, thank you everybody for participating for your thoughts. I think that's very valuable. Like Anthony said, feel free to still add to those stocks if you have time. We also have the live transcript. So I will save that. And yeah, enjoy the conference. I'm sorry I can't be there maybe next year, hopefully. Yeah, thank you Matias. Yeah. And as Matias mentioned, yeah, we are working on the final version of the disinserting report. We hope to have that out relatively soon, maybe the next month or so. And then once that comes out, we'll make sure to share it with the field and look for other opportunities to connect with the field on, on the findings in the report. All right. I think with that, we will take a break for lunch and thanks so much Matias. And thanks to everyone online for your participation. Thanks to everybody in the room.