 Children, you brought from the gutter to the PDP Chairman, WK Fires, back at IU. And the Comptroller General of Nigeria Customs Service queries the NNPC over a release of 98 million litres of petrol per day. This is PLOS Politics, I am Mary Anacom. The Comptroller General of the Nigeria Customs Service, Colonel Amid Ali, retired. It has queried why Nigeria National Petroleum Corporation Limited, the NNPC CL, would allow the release of 98 million litres of petrol per day for local consumption, instead of 60 million litres admitted by its own computation. Now he said he has always axed the NNPC, where 38 million litres of that petrol was taken to, if only 60 million litres is consumed daily. Well, to discuss this, we have Deji Awobiide, he's a legal practitioner. Deji is also always very good to have you join us on the show. Glad to be here. Great. Deji, I mean, it's been weeks and weeks of calling out the NNPC, the Nigerian government. We all remember, I'm sure that you were at the NBA conference here in Lagos where the SDP presidential candidates also continued to raise alarm on the fact that there's some sort of, he said, connivance or complicity on the side of government as to how much oil theft is going on in the country, and he queried it. There have been also so many people who are saying that government also has to know, or security agencies might be in the know, as to where all these petrol goes to if we're consuming just 60 million litres. A great question that the NNPC, sorry, the controller general of customs has raised. So let's start from the basis. The SDP presidential candidate has asked the question, and government's response, or the NNPC limited response, is it, how well does it sit with you, I think we should start from there. Well, I think the issue is a very clear, very straight line, as it relates to how this could oil theft has gone on for years and years, unabated, and I recall that while I was still in the second year school, it was an issue that kept recurring, as to how much oil Nigeria was losing daily in could oil theft, and it's not surprising that the CEO of the customs has made the point, and rather pointedly as well, that there needs to be some form of explanation by the NNPC, as to the discrepancy in the amount of could oil released by day to Nigerians. And of course, you recall that one of the reasons why there was occupied Nigerian protests back in the day on top of the mobile, was because of all these huge payments that were being made, being paid by the government to supposedly the could oil dealers and the should put us without any commensurate effect on the economy in terms of how people see the impact of this socially payments. But it seems to be that it's a very orchestrated scheme to continue to freeze our collective resources. And that's why the, and I mean, if anybody can make the point, the CEO of customs is in a very good position to lay the accusation at the table of the NNPC. And all of all through the years, you've not found any meaningful answer that hasn't been offered by the NNPC as to why there's so much discrepancy in the could oil supply and the amount that is being paid as subsidy by the NNPC to these people. So there seems to be some form of connivance. I mean, it's very difficult to make a defense for the government in this regard, because everything seems to be pointing in the direction that it's a form of connivance going on. Today, the NNPC limited is accusing churches, places of worships, mosque and churches of conniving with all thefts, all thieves are beg your pardon. And they're saying that most of these petroleum products are being found or hidden in places of worship close to where these illegal bunkering, you know, takes place. But again, I ask, why is it that in 2022, the NNPC with all the names and the rebranding that it's been given, the window dressing, they're still unable to account for where all of our crude goes to. And I'd like to just add there, as we speak, there's so many groups that are coming out again to say, well, now that you've given Tom Polo this contract, this 40 billion plus contract, what about us? Why does this seem like a settlement of sorts? This is, of course, if you ask me, another kettle of fish on its own, isn't it? Oh, absolutely. And again, it just begs the belief that a country like Nigeria, with all of its security apparatus, with all of the several security aspects that we have, would have allowed this kind of thing to go on check for so many years. And like I said, it only leads to one conclusion. And that conclusion is that the government is actively involved, or some elements of the government, so I don't say that the government is entirely. Some elements of the government have been hitting from this process because you have the police, you have the navy, you have the army, you have every security outfit, the NNPC is also there, that can prevent this continual theft of our collective resources. Because particularly at the country, we are dependent on exports of crude oil and the sales that we get from it. When this government came into power, one of its excuses that we were throwing around was that, well, the price of crude oil has gone down and has dipped. And of course, there is a deficit in terms of what was expected or projected and what is coming in. Right now, because of the war between Russia and Ukraine, there's an increase in the price of crude oil. This is a time when we are capitalising on how much crude oil we can sell and get money for. But unfortunately, we have a budget deficit that is largely due to the continued theft of our collective resources. And then you also have the proliferation of illegal refineries. I mean, protocols. Recently, you had the case of the Black Suit in protocols where people could not even see it was so bad that even Bonaparte had to think about it. And you still see that you have those government agencies and those government security outfits there still unable to identify exactly who the corporates are. Now, if you recall, Pompolo is allegedly planning a trial at the federal court for some religious offence. And at a point, Israel told the court that it could not be found. Now, the same Pompolo that will not be found is not the safest thing that the government has awarded the contract to defend the pipeline. So that tells you something. It tells you that there's some underhand dealing going on and that there's no sincerity of the past of government really addressing what this problem is. We haven't made any concerted effort to tackle the issues that are facing us. And unfortunately, these monies are going into the pockets of private individuals who I believe are likely to be cronies of the government. And, you know, it's unfortunate that it's the common peoples, the common man on the streets that suffers the effects of this continued theft of our collective resources. Let's talk more about what Adebayo, the SDP presidential candidate said at that NBA conference. He also talked about the fact that many other countries like us, who, you know, have oil, it reflects on the economy of their countries. You know, what they use these monies for, monies from, you know, accrued from the sale of these crude, as opposed to Nigeria, and how many tankers, the number of tankers that leave this country, the sale of the oil or the crude in those tankers are actually not repatriated into the country, hence why we're suffering and borrowing to, you know, service the loans that we already, you know, are indebted for. So, again, why do you think that this has, because, again, we can't also just put this at the, you know, footsteps or the doorsteps of the Bahá'í administration, like you said earlier on, it's been happening in successive government. Is it safe to say that there is a concerted effort, a determination of sorts to somewhat put us in the state where we are? Don't forget, the NLC, I beg your pardon. Asu is on strike, as we speak. Asu has appealed to the government to use the monies from the Abacha Lutz to pay for what they're asking for. Again, we're also having a collapse in many sectors of the economy. So one would wonder, is this something, a plan or a strategy of sorts to continuously cripple the country, even for a government like the Bahá'í administration that promised to bring us out of the doldrums? Well, it looks like it appears to me that it's, there's some form of organized crime going on. Because the way and manner in which every government that has come has tried to play the ostrich regarding this particular food oil test, every time you see that nobody has accounted for how much food oil is missing, how did it get missing, what exactly happened, nobody has an order accountable. In fact, the president himself is the minister of petroleum. So nobody's going to ask the president any questions about it. Now, if you recall that the role of the National Assembly is to build the voice of the people, is to go there and ask these questions that you and I are talking about and ask those questions, those questions of these agencies. The NFC is not bigger than the government. The NFC is also not bigger than the National Assembly. But what happens is when they have these citizens, they try to explain the oversight functions and they call these agencies to come forward. You have all these questions asked, but nothing ever gets done afterwards. I'd like to refresh your memory about the situation with Professor Ponday. I mean, it ended after that dramatic Nollywood scene that we saw in that court, rather in that committee, as until today, was still yet to revisit it. So again, what exactly is our problem in terms of accountability in this country? Do we just not care or is it that we're blinded? I think it's the conspiracy of the political class. Because, like I said, the National Assembly's role is to build the voice of the people. They are actually there to represent the people, to ask these questions that you and I are talking about, to ask these questions of these agencies, to bring them to account. And like you've already observed, what they do in criticizing the oversight functions is that they pay to the gallery, they invite them, they ask these questions, they put the cameras in there, some of them failed, some of them could laugh, some of them didn't say off the bike. And it seems as if there's a romance with corruption and nothing ever gets done. After the dramatics that they display at the oversight hearings, you never hear anything about it any longer. So that would fade to bits. The last National Assembly is acting with this one as well. So the questions that they're right before us, I mean, I don't know of constant, is asking the questions of the NNPC. You release 98,000 barrels every day, but only you have to have accounts of only 60,000. The NNPC is a constituency of 38,000 that you cannot explain. Now, so it's funny that the NNPC would make the SQ that these barrels are found in churches and in mosques. Where are the churches? Where are the mosques? Have the leaders of those churches been brought to book? Have the mosques, the imams, who are leading the congregants at the mosque, are being brought to book? Have questions been asked? Has anybody been killed by the police? So this is a question that you and I are not really asking, but you see that when they ask these questions, it's like a show, it's like a charade, it's being put out there in the public. And nothing gets done. And that's why I said it's a constituency, because they make you look as if they are doing something on our behalf, only to discover that all these things get swept under the carpet. And we are back to the very beginning. And the effect of this on a common man is that once we are not able to meet our budgets and limits, then there's the deficits that we have to deal with. The debts continue to pile, and you keep paying subsidy payments to these people for oil that they never claim, or they never really even disbossed to any filling station. So you are paying and subsidizing their corruption, which is a problem. The government came into power with the claim that it will be tough on corrupt practices. But what you see is that there's a constant romance between these government and corrupt practices. Okay. And it's so unbelievable. It's close to election season. Campaigns will kick off on the 28th of this month in earnest. And of course, these people who are vying for the very revered office of the president will come telling us all kinds of things, including the things we want to hear. Shouldn't we be making sure that this is one of the front burner issues? Because again, I might be wrong, correct me. We sensationalize these issues, and after a while, they give us something else to talk about, and that becomes a back burner issue. Where do we go from here? I'm looking at solutions. How do we make sure that we're not just, you know, manufacturing crude, or rather, taking crude from the ground, sending it abroad, refining it, bringing it back into the country, only for us to, for it to be stolen, and then Nigerians have nothing, no say in it. Again, we're actually very indebted as we speak. Monies are coming in, and those monies are not going into things that would give us some plough back profit. What kind of leader should Nigerians be listening to, and what solutions should we be looking for? Well, thank you really for the question. Well, honestly, I've always made the point that the most important offices have the offices of the legislators, national assembly, the Senate members, the Azul assembly members, the Azul rep members, because they are the people who are supposed to advance the course of the common man of the Nigerian masses. But unfortunately, we usually focus on electing the executive governors and the president, and that's because the National Assembly has not put its weight sufficiently to ensure that these executive officers are accountable to the people, because we can't all go to the National Assembly, we can't all go and ask others questions. There's only a limit to how much pressure groups can do, but the people who have our mandates to ask these questions, to impeach, to ensure that agencies that are accountable are not pulling their weight. So what we should be doing is, as we go into conferences, which is not enough for politicians to come on the rhetoric, I mean, nothing that they would say would be new. I mean, after eight years, almost eight years of the president's work, I'm not sure that there's anybody who will be sold on any cultural, anti-cultural, anti-cultural policy. You can't do much without having the support of the National Assembly. And that's where the focus should really lie. Who are the people that are electing into the business? So as of assembly, into the National Assembly, to ensure that they ask these questions and ensure that they follow through on policies and ideas. Now, as we go, ASU also strikes over six months. The cost of ASU has been pleaded by several people, even in terms of world, have also extended an argument in favor of the government, ASU and ASU. What do you find? Is that you have a government that is on death, but it's not really to listen to the common man's request? I mean, the kids who are home as students are children of the common man. They're only children that either are brought by private universities. So what I'm talking about, this good old test affects everybody. It affects the common man the most. Now, what audit has been done by the ASU to ensure that they are arrested? I mean, it's an economic crime, you ask me. If a person feels good oil, it's an economic crime. ASU should be in the forefront of arresting these people and bringing them to hook. But what do you find? You find that the ASU goes silent on cases like this and they wait until the new government comes in and then they start a game with this there on ASU, which I really, that has gone on for too long. So for me, the way forward is that we should focus on electing credible members of the National Assembly who advance our collecting costs in ensuring that we have post-it of our good oil sales to reflect on our economy and then I'll vote. Well, Digi, our bidet is a legal practitioner. Always a pleasure to have you here and always good to hear your analysis. Thank you for having me. All right, thank you for being here. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a short break. Now, when we come back, we will continue our discussions on the PDP crisis. And of course, Governor Wikia's response to the party. We'll be right back.