 Okay, in case you were wondering, this is Hawaii, the state of clean energy. That's where we are. That's what we do. That's what we think about. And that's certainly what we discuss on this show. To my left, Peter Rosick, spokesman of Hawaiian Electric Company. To his left, Mitch Ewan, co-host here on this show. He's the regular guy on Wednesday afternoon and on the phone, Nick Hendrickson of Eurist Energy. We are so happy to be all together. Hi, everybody. Say hello. Hello. Hello. Thanks for having me. Okay. Mitch, can you give us a scope of this discussion? Yes, we're going to talk about the Pahlehuah. Did I get that right? Close. Pahlehuah. Pahlehuah. Okay, so now we all got it right. Pahlehuah. Windfire. I'm on the west side of Oahu out in Waianae side. And so we want to know all about it, Nick and, you know, the good, the bad and no ugly, please. So let's go ahead. So, Peter, you know, this project has been around for a while. You and I have discussed it years ago. And we've discussed it with Nick also. Can you give us kind of a pre-see about, you know, the history of the project? Sure. The, well, from one electrics point of view, within the last couple of years, we put out a request for interest and then we put out an RFP for renewable energy last year. And the request was anybody interested in building a wind farm. And the fact is there is no one else interested in doing that. We've got a lot of solar projects. So this project, the Gil family, which owns the land and got together with the URIS, which has done projects here in Hawaii and across the globe, a very well-established renewable energy company, came to us with this proposal that they put a 47, 48 megawatt wind farm at this area that is above and kind of behind the kahi power plant. And since most people don't get up there, you know, you go up to the top of the ridge and then the land goes back kind of flat and rolling for a fair distance. And some people have been to the camp up there. It used to be called Camp Timberline. So we negotiated with URIS and we came up with a power purchase agreement with a very good price and very good terms as far as we're concerned. Well, we went to the commission and the commission is now reviewing that power purchase agreement. We've had some other filings related to competitive bidding because there is nobody else that wants to do one of these projects. And from the point of view, this gives us some diversity of technology. You know, we have a couple of wind farms on this island up on the northern or shore or getting more and more solar, which is great. But we'd ideally like to have as many different diverse portfolio. Diverse portfolio, exactly. So we have Waste to Energy here. We have a lot of solar and we have a biofuel plant, biofuel capable plants and so forth, another wind farm. Really, this is the last viable space on this island. Not only that, but as I recall, this is a very good place for wind. Very strong wind. It's got a very high wind capacity there and wind. You know, solar, we call it a capacity factor. We take the total potential and then the total reality and that percentage is called the capacity factor. Wind has a very high capacity factor and this site, like the sites on Maui and the sites in Kahuku as well, has a very high capacity factor. So you get a lot of bang for your buck. The other factor is that this wind site is just above the Kahi power plant where all the connections are. Exactly. So you have to build new connections all over the plant. That's absolutely right. You know, coming out of Kahi is what we call our 138KV network. It's our high density network. And by connecting to that, we solve a number of problems. First of all, you don't have to build a long line to connect to somewhere else. And secondly, the 138 system is a redundant system. In other words, there's at least two and sometimes three lines so that if one should happen to fail and it could happen or we have any kind of problem, the other one can step in. So that means that we don't have to worry about, you know, we sometimes take one of those lines out of service to do maintenance or sometimes there's a problem. And if this were not connected to that 138KV system, we'd have to ask the wind farm to shut down because we can't take their energy because, you know, the extension cord is disconnected. That's not good for anybody. So by connecting it to the 138KV line, we can do it at a very low cost to anyone, whether it's paid for by them or by us, the customers. And we have the assurance that, you know, that 24-hour, you know, seven-day or 365-day-a-year production is always available to our system. So it's a very, it's very good. It's, you know, it's good. We wouldn't be doing it if we didn't think it was a very good project. But this is one of the reasons that we think it's a good one. Good. So, Nick, you know, can you give us the four corners of this project? I recall, I couldn't be wrong, that's 48.5 megawatts. Am I right about that? It leaves about 47 megawatts and it kind of depends on the final configuration of the turbines themselves. But it's 13 turbines that are 3.6 megawatt machines. So that's, it's about 47 megawatts, give or take. OK, so give us the dimensions here, the specs, if you will. Yeah, sure. Just to go back to some of the things, you know, you referenced and also Peter talked about, you know, yours has been, was attracted to the Hawaiian energy market and its commitment to renewable energy for some time. That we started looking at investments in the state back in 2014, I believe it was. And just because of the way that things shook out as far as what HIKO was looking for at the time, we made a lot more progress early on on a PBS solar project that was was built and that we own and operate in on the west side of Oahu near near the proposed windside as well, but it's over in Waini. So for the first kind of phase of our of our efforts in the state, we were really focused on bringing that project to completion and then as that project kind of wrapped up and operations began, we really started taking a closer look at the site that we refer to now as as Pahlehua. So as Peter had mentioned, HIKO recognized the value of the site. We went through a process kind of identifying that there aren't really a lot of other sites on on the island that would be viable from a standpoint of providing energy from wind. And that's at the end of last year. We came to an agreement on the on the power purchase agreement and we were kind of off to the to the races. So that's kind of where we are now. As far as the project itself and the specifics, like I mentioned, it's 13 turbines. It's anticipated to be 3.6 megawatt machines. So the the actual model themselves are going to be by a manufacturer known as Vestas. So Vestas is one of the the European based companies, one of the the largest. Depending on the year, it's either the number one manufacturer, the number two manufacturer of turbines worldwide. The turbines themselves are about 250 feet from the base so the ground to the hub, which is kind of the middle of the cell. And then if you kind of anticipate the entire height of the turbine being the maximum blade tip, it's kind of one of the blades is sticking straight up in the air. So to speak, they're a little bit under 500 feet. So they've got a 136 meter rotor diameter. So the entire swept area is has a diameter of 136 meters. These are absolutely the kind of the newest and greatest and most efficient turbines out there. They have all the sort of features that you would imagine for kind of the highest, the most advanced technology available anywhere in the world. So we're excited about what these turbines allow us to do at the site. They're far more efficient than some of the earlier iterations or more configurations of wind projects can see for the site. So what that's allowed us to do is really get more more energy, more megawatt hours out of the site by using far less machines. So that's that's always a positive. As far as the actual energy being generated, that you go would be buying under the the PBA. Our expectation is about one hundred and fifty thousand megawatt hours of electricity would be generated on an annual basis at the site. So how many homes with that service? Yeah, so I was just going to get to that. So that's from our from our calculations, it's about twenty five thousand the average a lot of homes use so that'll power a fair amount of energy for the for for the island. And we'll be selling that under a fixed price contract you go for for twenty two years. So he goes got a big guaranteed source of the energy at a fixed price that it can provide to its customers. That's kind of the I guess the four corners. I'm happy to talk about other specifics or let's first look at your slides. We have three slides. So let's put the first one up. OK, this is a map here. Can you describe the map, Nick? Sure, and I'm assuming it's the one that shows the location of the project because I'm not actually looking at the slides myself. Yes, it's got a green a green line on it. It looks like a green arrow sign. Got it. So this is the general location of the site. As you know, as you can imagine with with wind projects, you want to put the turbines where it's windy. And in most cases, that's on areas that are, you know, kind of elevated or on ridge lines. So as Peter mentioned, if you if you're familiar with the area behind the Kahi power plant, there's kind of a general mountain sloping upwards towards, I would say, it's the northeast and that land kind of lands off on the degree as you as you go up the up the slope. So we'll have thirteen turbines kind of generally situated up there that on the on the mountain kind of above the Kahi power plant or above the the landfill area. OK, how about the next slide? Oh, this is a this is what is this a timeline chart? Yeah, yeah, do you have this one handy, Nick? Can you describe it to it? Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar with that. So this is this is a slide that I think goes into some some detail of showing kind of where we are. And you know what I would refer to as a development cycle, the process. So, you know, we we first when we first started when we first started talking to he go about the project, it was gosh, 2018. And we we agreed on the terms of the PBA power purchase agreement kind of late last year. And so where we are right now is, I would say in the early stages of the comprehensive studies that need to go on to actually get the projects ready for construction, permanent and ultimately built. So I think the important point of this slide is that this is a this is a true multi year process. And we're the process and the point of that process right now where we really are kind of down in the weeds, doing the analysis and the studies on site, looking at the environmental, biological issues, cultural concerns and all that really get the project, you know, in a in a form that it can be it can be permanent and built. So the other point here, I think the people people you raise with us is, you know, are we going to have the public going to be able to have and I have insight or an ability to comment during the the permit process? And the answer to that is absolutely yes. And so as you can see from from that slide, there's a multiple steps throughout throughout the cycle in which there'll be public engagement and the ability for public comment on specific aspects of the project. Yeah, that's the way it works in Hawaii, for sure. Any more slide? We got one more slide. Ah, this is my favorite picture for sure. What's this? This is a picture of a windmill now of a turbine wind turbine. So that so it should be the the actual we got that from the manufacturer of the turbine vestus themselves. So that is should be the vestus V136. So this is the specific turbine model that will be utilized at the site. So again, it's the best in class. It does really, really well in the environment that we're anticipating it to be placed in and we're excited to be installing it at the site. Beautiful. So what about it, Mitch? What are your thoughts so far? Oh, what's the status of you have to do an EA, Nick, and then full EIS? Or has that already been done? And you're just like forging along your development path. What's the status of that? Right now, if you want to go back to the slide that kind of shows the timeline, we haven't done an actual EA or an EIS yet. A lot of that will get determined as a result of the study. So once we start getting the data back from the studies about what level of biological concern there is or not, we'll be able to kind of make the determination. So I'd say we're a ways out from making that determination. Of course, we'll do everything that we're required to do under the law and under the permitting regime. But I don't have the results of the studies yet because, frankly, the studies are actually still ongoing. And with a lot of these studies, it's not obviously a one time thing where you go out and you kind of look around and take stock of what's out at the site at that period of time. We have biologists engaged and they're out there on a regular basis doing seasonal studies that you really have to take account of what's happening over a seasonal period or even over a multi-year period. So once we have those, the data sets that are generated from those studies, we'll be able to make a better determination of what process we should go through. Well, I was looking at the aerial photograph of the site. I didn't see any major subdivisions or houses around the area. You look like you're kind of tucked away up on the top of the mountain and everybody else is down at the ground level. Yeah, that's a fair perspective on it. I mean, there aren't really... We purposely don't site turbines for a variety of reasons near areas in which people live. That's not generally a prudent way to do this. And the areas in which we're anticipating putting the facilities aren't near any residences or any areas like that. Well, we're going to take a short break, you guys. But before we do, I just want to make a personal statement. Can't wait to put a point of personal preference, kind of thing. When I first saw the first wind project in Southwest Maui, you know, the project, I forget the name, it's the mountain up there. I was taken by it. I loved it. I saw it as a harmony with nature. I saw it as aesthetically beautiful. And I saw it as the sound of it was a special sound. And it touched me. It touched me as a complete aesthetic experience. And ever since then, I must say that I love wind. You know, I'm not saying I don't like solar, but wind is dynamic. It's kinetic. You can feel it. Yeah, and I'm a kite flyer. So I know about wind and kites. And I know about the vibrations you get on the lines to the kites. And it's that kinetic experience that it's a zen, zen thing. So I kind of I really like wind. I want to say that before the break, I got it off my chest. Now we're going to take a break. OK. Aloha, I'm Jane Sugimura, our host here at Think Tech Hawaii, a digital media company serving the people of Hawaii. We provide a video platform for citizen journalists to raise public awareness in Hawaii. We are a Hawaii nonprofit that depends on the generosity of its supporters to keep on going. We'd be grateful if you'd go to thinktechhawaii.com and make a donation to support us now. Thank you so much. Aloha, I'm Lauren Pear, a host here at Think Tech Hawaii, a digital media company serving the people of Hawaii. We provide a video platform for citizen journalists to raise public awareness in Hawaii. We are a Hawaii nonprofit that depends on the generosity of its supporters to keep on going. We'd be grateful if you'd go to thinktechhawaii.com and make a donation to support us now. Thanks so much. I'm so I'm so glad I got a chance to express that to you guys. I really needed to do that. No, we we we appreciate the zen of your comments. For us, you know, it's just the main thing is when we compare solar to wind is wind is going 24 seven. And it's not just during the day. You can add a battery to a solar installation and you can use that electricity another time of day. But that adds to certain expense and certain, you know, if the sun doesn't shine that day, you can't fill your battery. So but the wind is going pretty much, especially in a place like that, which is very windy. And to Mitch's comment, there aren't any houses up there because nobody wants to live in a wind, you know, in the middle of a wind pattern is that these wind farms, wherever they are, are always in spectacular locations. Well, they're very if you like them, they're very majestic looking. There's no question there. They look like giant birds on the on the horizon. They're like swans with a long neck. I mean, but, you know, that doesn't if you have to look at them all the time, your opinion could change. That's all I tell you. And I see it as more than just the kinetic energy thing. It's a statement. It's a statement. This community, this country, whatever it is understands about renewables, understands about climate change, understands how we have to, you know, make our community adopt this kind of technology, this kind of energy. It's a it's a grand statement for that neighborhood, for that community. In my view, well, one thing I just wanted to jump in on to when we were talking about is obviously, you know, we're a big proponent of solar energy as well. I mean, we we own the project and why and I feel like it plays a very important role in a lot whose energy makes as well. But one aside from the fact that, you know, as a wind project, we do generate during periods of time, actually a fair amount of our energy is actually generated when solar energy isn't available at nighttime. The other the other point and when we were talking, I think it was last last time we spoke was was in December of last year. You had Tony Gill, who's from the family that owns the property on. You know, they have a very defying goal of rehabilitating the land that the project is going to be located on. They're very environmental, that family, very altruistic, too. Exactly. The reason why I mentioned that is one of one challenge or limitation with with solar projects is you really do have to take it. They do take up a fair amount of space. So putting putting solar up at the site up there, even if it was feasible, would be problematic from a rehabilitation standpoint, because it wouldn't be able to actually rehabilitate the land of the same degree with the wind project. You know, you've got these towers that have a very, very small base and you can you can run cattle. You can grow crops pretty much right up to the base. So it really is complimentary, not only from an energy mix and diversity, but for the long term goals of the family rehabilitating the land up there. It really kind of it does it does a lot to address those issues. Peter, can you talk about where this fits in a diverse array and portfolio? As we were discussing, the diversity is very important. We've been dependent on oil and a little bit of coal for a hundred years. And that's gotten us where we are, which but it's no longer feasible. So we're getting more and more solar. As you know, we have about seven or eight projects that were approved late last year. We'll be shortly going out. We're talking to the PUC right now. We'll probably be going out for what we call phase two. Likely that'll be a lot more solar projects. So the solar, you know, why leads the nation in solar? Both when you combine the solar projects like the Eurus project, that we call a grid scale projects with the rooftop solar way ahead of anybody else where we're doing quite well on solar. But in terms of diversity, we have the two wind farms on this island. They're two on Maui. They're two on on Hawaii Island. But we can this adds to that to that picture. And then we'll go out, as I said, in a few months within a couple of months, I think to ask for more projects. And in all likelihood, we'll get back mostly solar and solar with with with batteries. So this helps to keep the the projects diverse and keeps our, you know, from having all one one all of our one basket gives us some variety because as we've been now several times, this is going 24 seven. Hawaii is an evening peaking state. You know, we don't have a lot of manufacturing. We need the power in the evening, five o'clock to nine o'clock. Solar doesn't help and batteries can only do so much. They're great. So having a significant wind input to a system is absolutely essential or you end up having to fall back on on other things. So as we move forward toward our next, you know, milestones, we are going to get all the solar we can. But the wind is very important for that diversity of technology. And the location, as we discussed as well, is very good for a lot and a lot of respects. It's close to power lines that exist. It's right near our power plant. It is in an area without a lot of residences nearby. It'll certainly be visible, but I got to give yours a lot of credit. They were talking to the community. The community was understandably concerned about the visual effects. And so the yours redesigned began to redesign the location to some of the turbines. So they're set back a little bit from the very rim of the back of the valley there. And, you know, I'm not nobody saying it'll be invisible because it won't. But it will be less obtrusive, I think, than it would have been before. So yours has been out with the community. It's not a one time deal. It's an ongoing deal. You never can never do enough community outreach. You know, you talk to 10 people and five groups and the 11th person says, well, I never heard about it till now and I'm I'm unhappy. So you can it's an ongoing process, but I got to say yours has listened. They have a lot of experience in the community from their solar installation, which is right on the ground and right in neighbor with a lot of neighbors. They know the people, a lot of the people in that area. So it's a process, as we've seen, that's ongoing. There's the permitting side, but the community outreach side is ongoing as well. And people will have chances to say, you know, I really am bothered by this and it's in your interest and it's in our interest. If that can be fixed, we're going to try to try to fix it. It's not a matter of trying to stop the project. It's a matter of trying to get it right. And you get it right by listening to the people who are going to be living next to it. A lot of factors play into, you know, public opinion on this kind of thing. And one of them, you know, is is climate change. Absolutely. And, you know, and that would have, you know, for example, if we had an extreme weather here, what do you mean if? Thank you. If we had a notable increase in sea level and all that, that is going to affect public opinion. And it's going to affect this whole mix of opinion that go around these issues. And five or ten years ago, people were beginning to get it now. We're getting storms. We're going to have a nine, may have a nine hurricane season coming up. We've seen what Olivia and Lane did not so much to this island, but the Big Island took a terrible beating. I don't think there's any, you know, question about extreme weather is already here. There's flooding in Waikiki. There's there is King King Sir, King Tides. I'm sorry, you know, it's not an if. It's a sense because we're already feeling it and it's only going to get worse. It is. It's going to be on everybody's mind. No, I think you're absolutely right. And it wasn't on everybody's mind five years ago. Certainly not 15 years ago. It was very, very theoretical. Still people who are think of it as theoretical. But I think anybody that reads the newspaper watches television news or watches think tech or I just assume they watch think tech. But, you know, they realize that this is something and we can't, you know, we can't lie still. And I've always said, you know, we're not the amount of greenhouse gas we admit from this island is minuscule in the worldwide situation. But on the other hand, you can't ask other countries to cut back when you're not doing everything you can yourself. And it's a better feeling when you are doing what you can. Absolutely. Mitch, you had something? I just had one final thing for Nick, you know, as you go through this process, I mean, we are part of the energy policy forum, which is sponsoring the show. So, you know, in your as you're wrapping up or as you're going along, if you can spot or identify any policies that might help improve the process, not beat the system, mind you, but just make the system better. We'd love to hear about it so that, you know, we can inject that in the system, maybe make it more streamlined for people that follow you as you have your lessons learned going through here, you know, like share them with us so that we can spread that word out there as well. Yeah, no, absolutely. I commit to doing that. And I will say that, you know, we were attracted to the Hawaiian market for a large to a large degree because of the leadership of Governor Ige and the, you know, the leading 100% renewable mandate that Hawaii passed prior to any other state in the United States. I mean, California kind of followed Hawaii in that regard. So the leadership that Hawaii has shown on the policy front is a big reason why is really the reason why we're here. So as far as what kind of more micro policies, it's definitely something that, you know, we can always, you know, use the support of policymakers. And yeah, I commit to keeping my mind open to policies that could help facilitate this kind of development. Every project in yield policies, we have to live and learn on everything. Always looking for best practices and all that. I'd like to make one of my statements, if you don't mind, you guys. Is there any way we can stop you? Go ahead, go ahead. You know, Nick was talking before about the new technology involved, you know, in these turbines. And I don't think people realize. I think people have a very primitive view of what a turbine is and how wind works. They is something out of Don Quixote, if you will. Sure, yeah. Or ancient Amsterdam perhaps. But the fact is that, you know, since we've been covering this, since the, what the odd years I like to say, you know, the technology in solar has gone light years ahead. And so is the technology in wind. Absolutely. And people have to appreciate that the wind turbines of today are way different than they were five or 10 years ago. I'll tell you, if you're in Holland and you're standing there in front of an old windmill that was used to grind, you know, there was turning a wheel to grind grain. And in the background, you see a row of these, what I think are beautiful, modern wind turbines. You are struck by, you know, wind is not new, but it's come a long way in a relatively short period of time. Hawaii played a big role in that because we had, up in Cahooka, we had some of the original, you know, models that were being tried out. And some of them look like egg beaters. And some of them, you know, one, do you have how many turbines do you have? And how many wingspans do you have on it? It's come a long way, and we're glad that yours is committed to getting the newest and the best. Don't you guys have, like, one of the old blades in front of your building? We have one, yeah. We had to take it down from the building. We have it inside now. So we go over and we run our hand across it every so often, I'd say. So let's let you make the last statement, Nick. What would you like to leave with the people? So I'd just like to say that, you know, we, you ourselves as a long-term partner with EECO, we've really appreciated their desire to help support the project. And we have a long-term commitment to the state of Hawaii and Nahuatl, and look forward to working with the local community to make sure that this project happens in a way that is the most appropriate for all parties involved. Okay, make sure you get to close. You're the co-host, right? Yes, well, thank you everyone for attending the show. Nick, thank you so much for coming to us over the waves by the magic of electronics today. And we'll sign off and see you before we know it'll be Wednesday again next week. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Nick. Thank you, Peter. Thank you, Mitch. Thanks. Aloha. Thank you, bye-bye. Always great to be here.