 Sir Drummond, I'm delighted to be working with you on the social capital markets conference this year and your leadership of some of our content and I thought I just asked you a couple of questions to begin with how you yourself have come to be involved more in this space from a for-profit capacity because my understanding is that you had spent many years working to support capacity building of not-for-profits. Right, although we crossed the lines and yes, I spent 35 years at Tides so that qualifies as a long time. Right, so tell me about your move to equilibrium capital now. Well, it's been interesting for me and very exciting. I think it's quite a different environment to be in in some ways and quite similar in others so the ways it's different is the social capital world is evolving in some ways where the nonprofit world was maybe 20, 30 years ago when innovation and new ideas are becoming, you know, are gaining currency and acceptance I think in the markets. My interest in making the move from the nonprofit world over really has to do with noticing patterns of interest on the part of donors and others who really began to look at the lines between nonprofit and for-profit activity as being artificial and while in the nonprofit sector there was kind of for many years this attitude that people who were interested in making money were driven solely by greed and avarice and people in the nonprofit sector were all good and I think it's a much less bright line. I think there are people in the for-profit sector who have every intent to have the kind of social and positive social impact, environmental impact as people in the nonprofit sector they just work in different ways and so I'm interested in sort of really learning about this new emerging social capital world as a way of adding to the impacts that the nonprofit and the advocacy world can have on these issues which are really pressing and anybody who cares about the society within which we live has to be concerned about both sides of that equation. It's interesting you talk about the blurring of the different sectors. One of the things I think Socap has tried to do for many years and has done for many years and one of the things we're committed to continuing with is this idea of breaking down some of the silos that I've seen in my work particularly in the institutional investment space for social capital markets. So for example we have banks doing community investment, pension funds doing economically targeted investment and we have high net worth individuals doing impact investment and mutual funds doing social investment. I mean there's a whole lot of ways that this activity is being described. Right and obviously there's a big spectrum of what's possible in the social capital world but what's interesting to me is that I don't think institutions have gone there necessarily willingly. I think that they are following the market in other words they're following the audiences that they have it's a large institutions pension funds they have to be responsive to the people who benefit from those or help create those kinds of concentrations of wealth and I think it's a wonderful thing that people are paying attention in that way rather than you know some decades ago people would look at I know certainly the people I worked with in the nonprofit sector particularly high net worth individuals would look at their money management as something that was completely divorced from any interest they had in the issues that they were concerned about philanthropically or in their communities and they would sort of seed control and the uses of those funds or the ways those funds were invested to experts and I think what's happening now is people are starting to look at those as useful assets in making an impact in the same way that their philanthropic assets have been in the past so it's a very exciting time. Yeah and it seems like there's been a tremendous amount of change just in the last 12 months I know with the creation of platforms like mission markets and impact assets and gate impact and the arrival on the scene of a whole new bunch of organizations I mean equilibrium capital was created just a few years ago. Right. One of the things that I've I've been working on is the role of government and policy and social capital markets and I mean Well how is that changing? Is that sort of going through a similar kind of transition? We're seeing you know phenomenal interest from policy makers that was there's not there previously and I think again it's a recognition that that there are ways of doing this that can be kind of institutionalized so for example there's been rapid growth in the United States just in community development financial institutions and there's CDFI's present a really fantastic vehicle for government to realize some of their social objectives through financial markets and you know as we turn towards job creation as a priority you know we're finding a bunch of programs that are that are coming from Washington directed towards CDFI's as as organizations that can channel capital to social impact but we've also seen a number of you know new innovations that have come on the scene in recent years like social impact bonds out of the UK that are now being looked at closely in the US you know the UK they're developing something called the big society bank which is essentially using the dormant bank accounts that have been sitting around for I think over 15 years for individual like you so that $5 you left in the bank account you know 30 years ago. I can use that. Well the government's using it to see the launch of a bank specifically created to fund social innovation which is really exciting you know and you know in the US we've also seen for example the proliferation of new corporate models for social entrepreneurs like B corporations and L3C's and in California there's a piece of legislation to create a flexible benefit corporation so I think the government's realizing that there are discrete opportunities to essentially support what's been going on for many years and to really lay down new rules of the game that make it easier for social entrepreneurs to effectively raise capital and do what they do best which is create social impact. And I think it also holds promise that the engine of the private sector you know the desire to sort of create your own enterprise and have some sense of ownership or you know explore new ideas you know in that way you know really does have broad social benefit and it's not just seen exclusively in that kind of private way and both sides are really trying to figure out how to harness that energy for the broad social impact that we all want and you know hopefully that's what we're going to get to. So Drummond one final question I mean as you embark on your new career with equilibrium and join us all on this journey in your mind what's the most important thing that you're looking forward to or that you think needs to happen to kind of realize the full potential of what we're trying to accomplish in social capital markets? Oh that's a nice easy question. You're going to have to answer this question too but I guess the thing that I would point to is the thing that would make me most excited about the next five years, ten years in social capital would be if it became less important to describe it as social capital and it just became about good businesses who cared about impacts succeeding in the marketplace and that the distinction that we keep having to draw to say this is this world of social capital and that's the world of really big capital became less of a distinction and that there was more interest on the part of more people in participating in this marketplace because I think it's about as exciting as it gets. Well that's an exciting vision and I'm going to take the easy way out and I'm going to leave our viewers to answer that question, what do they see as the most important thing that needs to happen to move social capital markets forward?