 So today I have a real pleasure to introduce two distinguished speakers, Mr. Ed Kerrier from the Squamish tribe. He is a master basket maker. And here I think we have some of the baskets that he has woven. And Dr. Dale Crawl from Washington State University. Dale and I share a common friend, a wetland archaeologist, Akira Matsui, who unfortunately passed away a couple of years ago. But Akira did a lot for wetland archaeology, who introduced me to Dale. And Dale introduced me to Ed. So in the spring of 2016, both of them came to Japan. And we went to two I knew places, one in Shirahoi and the other in Nibutani. And at Shirahoi, we gave us more workshop, where Ed said, weaving basket is not just weaving techniques. 80% of the work is ready to get the raw materials. And getting the raw material starts with planting trees in the forest, which I think was really the highlight of our trip. And highlight of my stay in Japan for two years when I was doing a big project with the institution in Kyoto. And I'm very, very excited to have this opportunity, to have them here. They're also giving a class lecture tomorrow morning at 9.30 in my Hantagyada Archaeology class in 136 Bells. So if any of you are interested in coming to that one as well, please do come. It's 136 Bells. So without further introduction, please welcome Ed and Dale. Well, thank you for coming. It's interesting traveling all the way down here and seeing this beautiful university here, my first time in this area. So we got our little slide show here. And I brought baskets and things that pertain to food gathering, fishing. A slide there, our archaeology basket. It's a backpack. You wear it on the forehead. And carry it on the back like that. And of course, this is a small sample. The larger ones, they fit across the back and down. And they would carry foods like this. This is a piece of hard smoked salmon, half of a. And it's flayed out. And then a little cedar sticks are put through there. And then it hangs in the smokehouse for about three or four days. And this is a common food that they would carry in one of these, distribute in one of these burden type baskets. But when I wove this one, rather than weaving four baskets, I've got a four in one. I got a 4,500 year weave here, a 3,000, a 2,000, and a 1,000 and above. So I wove all in one basket rather than having to weave four baskets. So you folks can pass this basket around and take a quick look at it. And one basket that represents 225 generations, no doubt, a relative of it. Can we pass this around? Oh yeah, and then you can look at this. But this is our lunch, so please. I told Dale this is his lunch today. So we just came out with a book that is out on this three-year project. And we can pass one around of that. And it's essentially, through the Journal of Northwest Anthropology, the Society bought a bunch. So we could sell some for $40. They actually sell on Amazon for $54.95. And we'll sign it. This covers my life as a basket. We've earned Dale's life as an archaeologist. And the two of us coming together and replicating ancient Salicy basketry, like the one I'm passing around there. There's a synergy of culture and science separately. You can have nearly the completeness as bringing cultural training and science. One fellow commented on the book. And he said, it's a human interest book. And I thought that was. A lot of time, Secretary of State, Ralph Monroe, the Pat Kirch knows. And he said, this isn't a site before. This is a human story. We hope you see it that way. The Burke Museum's been very supportive. This is Ed working on some of the replicas of the 2000-year-old baskets they have at the UW Burke Museum. This is a website that was close to my area where I live on the Snoqualmie River. It was a 2000-year dated back. It was a food-preparing village right on the edge of the river. And all these baskets were thrown down near the river and got this mud on them that preserved them. The Snoqualmie River has a fine, fine silt in it from the glaciers, from the Cascade Mountains, powdered rock. And once that powdered rock gets on a piece of wood or something, it seals off all that oxygen and it's preserved forever. So all these baskets were preserved down there. Ed uses a form to weave around to keep it perfectly formed. He uses styrofoam from the Snoqualmie Casino Construction. They have this wonderful styrofoam. And at the OZ ancient site, they use bent wood boxes to weave around. You can't weave these baskets in a plating. You can't weave them without a form. So these are better for sticking needles. This little one here was the only one they found where the whole basket was there, the bottom, the sidewall, the rim detail. So I was able to measure it and replicate it and use the cedar root that it was made out of. The cedar root was identified underneath the electron microscope looking at the cellular structure of the wood. And every wood has a different structure so they could tell me whether it was cedar root or spruce root or vine maple or whatever. And when I split my roots, I split them up and put them in little coils like this. So all I got to do is throw that in a bucket of water and then I can weave with it. So this little basket here is the. It's probably the same weaver that wove these bigger ones. But it's. I think it was a child's basket for maybe picking little hawkleberries in or something. So nothing's more human than a finding a kid's basket. So we replicated these two types, these two major types. And that's ed. This piece right down here was the large piece of the burden basket, the large one. Like that, only that large. Yeah, about this size. And so it showed me the sidewall construction, the handle detail, the rim detail. So I was able to really replicate it very well by that piece right there. And then the other piece on the other side is a plating weave over and under weave. So I was real proud of Dale. He wove this one here replicating the other piece that was found. That's what I know. You need a farm. You could not weave that kind of weave without working up a bandwidth box or tapering. And then that's I taken on an apprentice, Josh Mason, there. And he wove that large burden basket there. And I've been teaching him. And then in the lower picture, we wove shrimp pot baskets. And some of our people went to the Smithsonian. And at the Smithsonian, they got this shrimp pot basket that was collected in the Puget Sound area. And so they took pictures of it. So I was able to replicate it and weave one exactly like the one they have at the Smithsonian. So the Smithsonian doesn't have anything over on me. I got it. You probably won't. But the Burke, you know, a whole goal of this project is to perpetuate this into the future generations of weavers and our Salish sea weavers. And the Burke Bill Holm Center helped us reach that goal with Josh Mason, who's a Squatson Island tribe member. And he was one of the students that was supported by this Bill Holm Grant for Ed DeTige. That really took it on the cedar limb and rip style baskets. And so he. These are all the split cedar limb and the split cedar root weavings. Josh took his and he dropped it down 300 feet under the fuges. Didn't tell us about it until it was over. But put some cat food or some kind of and cut a lot of shrimp. Cut some of our big spotted shrimp we have up there. So I know the basket works. We've been getting a lot of support from the tribes for this book. They want this out for their future generation. Squaxon Island tribe, the director and vice chair are showing Ed their beautiful museum at Squaxon. And then they gave us a grant to send. This just got sent out, I think, Monday to all the libraries and colleges in the Northwest because they granted this sticker on it. So they wanted to get it out to the community. And then these tribes, Kaleilap Salats, Snoqualmie and Suquamish, funded subsidies for this book to make it less expensive for native weavers. So I've got Dr. Habu, the forum. If you're a Native American member and would like to get about half price for this book, it's through their subsidies you can get the book. So we've got a lot of support from the tribes. That's probably our main audience. And this is what Ed was talking about. For 50 years, I've done archeological work in wet sites. Cluti Nozet, you might have heard of. And Ed's done 50 years of cultural training. And this is when we were young bucks. That's me where I lived, where I was raised in Indianola, the old house. And my grade school picture there. I don't know if you can spot me there. Anybody spot Ed? Probably Ken, Ken. Which one's Ed? This is the test. Which one? Becca. Becca's a student from my wet site at Sparks in experimental archaeology. So I feel, I still feel sorry for that teacher because the first through the sixth grade, one room, one teacher. Nobody. Boy, they sure picked up on it at UBC. We gave it to our class. They knew right away. Yeah. And his first bike, he got used for $10 in his high school picture. And then this is Dale Crowe's in his high school picture. And Dale's first bike. That bike would cost me $75. I got mine for 10, but it wasn't motorized. It wasn't motorized, though. So you know which one's me? Pat probably knows. That's what he used to look like. I remember you. I'm the one with a hop along castity t-shirt. Does that look good and blue? And I felt sorry for that. These teachers, too. This is where I live in Indianola, the red area there, the trust land, native trust land that people halt shoot up above. And his wife, we should all, after we were run out of our big house over in our old man house over in Sokwamesh, when the army took it over, was going to make a fort there, run out everybody out of it. And so they took Chief LaHalcio over to Indianola because it was way far out of the way. And so he had 160 acre trust land given to him there. And so I still, it's still intact. Well, there's 80 acres now. Chief LaHalcio quickly sold 80 acres off. So I still hold it in trust land. The picture that you have for this cock, he's sitting on his porch right there. Yeah. And Chief LaHalcio's personal cooking basket here, this one's about 200 years old. And of course, the bottom has fallen out of it. But there's little burn, Mario. They heated hot rocks and hung them in the basket to boil food on. And they were, they were, they're called hard-coiled baskets because hard, just like a solid piece of wood once you do this coiling weave. And there's even little burn marks on the inside of this one. And I, I replicated it. Don't hit it like that. Oh, you better show them. I replicated it. So this is my replication of it. So you can take a look at that there. This is his. Oh, that's my great-grandma. See, I was raised by my great-grandma. My mom was too young when she had me, so she just gave me to my great-grandma. So that's, I was about 14 there. And she, she's the one that I watched weave these clam gathering baskets. And so this particular clam gathering, fish gathering basket was the one, the main one that our Suquamish tribal people and Julia Wove, she was one of the last weavers to be weaving one of these cedar limb and cedar root baskets, or cedar bark or cedar limb and cedar root baskets. And so I just fortunate enough to pick that up. And when I was 14, I made my first one that I used for digging clams in and everything. So later on in life, I decided, well, I better continue to weave these, because if I don't, it's going to be a lost art. It's going to be, it's going to die out. So I've been weaving them. So I've been weaving them now for over 50 years. We have this deed in the book, and it's the deed to transfer this to Julia, his great-grandmother from Chikohaltchu, and he couldn't read or write. So that's why they called it the land of incompetent Indians. See, they were non-competent because they couldn't read or write, they just spoke Indian. And so this old deed here with his thumbprint on the bottom, that's how they signed. And deeding the land over to Julia, his daughter, or his adopted daughter, really, and outside the house with some of her hard-coil cooking baskets there and berry picking baskets. He wants to replicate this next. This one is beautiful, actually. Yeah, it's in the museum. And me with one of those, that's called a crossed-warp basket. See, the warps run, the warps are the body of the basket, and they cross over each other as you weave up the basket. So they're called the crossed-warp basket. We have his sales records from this, and these are traditional clam baskets, and we can estimate easily he's made 700 of these clam baskets out of lemon red in his lifetime. So it's one of his main focuses. And then the little basket that's going around there, this is a couple of hard-coiled baskets that I made besides that one that's going around there. And my. You saw that to the burp, maybe, when Pat was correct. Yeah, the burp found out I was making that one, so she called me up and wanted to buy it, so I sold that one to the burp. This one I still have. This one here is kind of my lifetime story basket. Oh, it starts out with a fishnet on the bottom and my canoe that I carved. And I used to hunt a lot of ducks, so I got some birds around there. Then I got a salmon backbone design in there, and I got hands and finger design and salmon gill design. And I used to climb in the mountains, so I got mountains. I like lightning streaks coming down, and the moon, and the stars, and the Milky Way up there. So I just. This on his business card, he has his whole life story of this picture. I just as I pulled the basket, I designed it and put all those designs into it. Oh, this is my generationally linked basket weaving compared to Dale's closest archaeology or wet site generations way back. And me with my son, Jeff, and my mother, Isabel, and my grandma, Agatha, and my great- and my great-grandma, the lady that raised me. And so I was just real fortunate. I set my camera up and got in and took that picture. That's right out back of where we lived. We lived in that house there, and that was our smokehouse and our woodshed, and we smoked a lot of that salmon in that smokehouse there. They did a studio picture right after this, a real formal studio picture, and we never could find it. Then we found this, and this is better. Much better than the studio picture. This is what Ed's talking about. We're trying to figure out what we were doing, and we tended to call it generationally linked archaeology, because these dots are each a generation for 100s. Back to the 2,000-year-old baskets we were replicating, and you got Ed. And then his mom and grandmother didn't have the urge, like he did, to learn this. So they never did, but he learned from Julia, who learned 4th, 5th generation wishy-dot. And then I do this deep time, do statistics on these wet sites in this whole area. And I go from this direction. He goes from, his whole goal was to learn as far back through the generations of weavers from museums and relatives. He never dreamed he would work with 100-generation grandparents, you know, with this. And no doubt these were my relatives, because these tribes were relatively close together in the Puget Sound area, so we might have been related. You go 100 generations back, and you're salacious. This is where you live, right? In the morning. And that's where the site is. So all of this is really interrelated basketry-wise for at least 3,000 years, or inside Salish Sea versus outside. And this shows the cedar bark and cedar root and tully and different fibers that these baskets were made out of. And a majority of them were cedar root. And up north, there were cedar bark and spruce root and so forth. Then I worked the wet sites of Ozev out on the west coast with the Makah tribe. And this is excavating the houses that were covered by a mudslide, and we're using water to excavate. That's the first basket I ever found. It's like Dr. Habu finding her, or Dr. Lightfoot finding their first arrowhead, but for me, yes. You might be really like, huh? And we found these whalers hats too. It's about 300 years old, the mudslide, 1,700 in fact, when the Japanese recorded that tsunami coming clear across the Pacific in January 28th, 1700. There's no earthquake, that's why they call it an orphans. So they could tell us the exact minute it happened when the tsunami hit Japan. They told us the exact minute that the earthquake happened and the village was buried. But this dome, onion dome hat here was identified a whaler or a chief, but it was definitely a whaler's hat because it was in the, buried in the houses and the wet sites out there. There's one spruced root. He made it all a spruced root. I made this one out of the spruced root with wild cherry bark and an ocean grass that floats in on the ocean beach and a bare grass here. Oh, this is just a two-strand twining weave here that I used. We'll have to have a tent model up there. Oh, you can, okay. I'm gonna be careful with it. Okay, look at that. You saw that Terrell stood up with the Macaulay there. Yeah, all of these artifacts were part of the, we're in equal partnership with the Macaulay and one of their requirements is this never goes to Seattle to the Burke Museum or anywhere else. And so we, Dr. Richard Doherty got funds through Jackson and Magnuson to build a museum in Nambay and some of you may have been there. Yeah, it's gorgeous museum. So all the artifacts from this and the Hoka Riverside I dug with the Macaulay up at Nambay, curated and you want a little drink? I'm gonna, so I did all these tests to see and I always got this sea area in the inside Salish Sea. Coming out, the first one was from all the baskets in 77, 20 years later, I added in there a whole lot of baskets from Hoka River. There's 3,000 year old's sake and they have knob top hats 3,000 years ago there as well, which probably meant something about the wearer but once you add that and you add water hazard, you increase and you're trying to test your model. Is there cultural continuity, cultural transmission through the styles of baskets and it held up and in another 20 years, we did some more sites like Mud Bay, Oak Cross and added that to the test. So every 20 years I got to test my hypotheses and they held up pretty well. So this is us working with the Squaxin Island tribe and this is Ed. That's when we really got together. I started inviting him and said, we're getting clam baskets very much like yours. And he really wanted to come. So he's here helping us excavate and see any clam baskets. And I got down there and that basket was so new looking underneath there, had been under there for 700 years and I said, Dale, did you just put that under there to fool me? I thought I was pulling his leg and I said no. Becca worked on our field school there and Med Ed, he came up several times, teach the students about his work in Beckham Canyon. Then I saw her over in Exeter doing experimental archaeology. I think it was coming. So long. And Kitamatsu, who was a long time friend of mine because he's a wet site archaeologist, sponsored this dig down in Portland with a different group of tribes, certainly the Salats and Warm Springs and Grand Ronde that we found beautiful baskets. And this is Pat Courtney Gold who came down and helped us analyze this, knew exactly the materials, knew exactly, it was an acorn basket. She made me this and gave it to me. So I like wearing this as a frog necklace. And one thing about that acorn basket, it's that crossed warp weave, that clam basket weave that's going around. And then we started doing coladistic analysis for some more for biology, but to see if it complimented our close proximity analysis with Dr. Mark Collard, and sure enough this sea area really was polar opposite from the west coast. And then I was wanting to learn how to weave with spruce root and make the large burden basket back in the 1980s. And so I went to near Bay to McCall and I met Isabelle Idez. Well, she was already a great friend of my great grandma Julia. She actually used to come and stay at my house when I was really tiny. And they would go to Seattle area to pick hops and earn a few dollars that way. So I went up there and she took me to her spruce root gathering along the ocean beach. These spruce roots grow in the sand and we pulled all those nice long spruce roots out of the sand there. Like a sand. So generous. And so that's got me started weaving the backpack burden baskets. And then she said, nobody makes these anymore. I don't know. And I said, well, Isabelle, you help me out. I'll make you one for your 100th birthday. Well, this was 20 years off yet. So by gosh, on her 100th birthday, I had it all made and I went up there and I'm presenting it to her for her 100th birthday there. And that's when Dale Crowe was kind of found out about me there. I couldn't believe anybody would. I knew the last weavers of these burden baskets that, so I had a 2000, I had my new digital camera. These came out pretty good. They're in the book of Ed presenting this to someone who had been my teacher for 30 years. When I worked with them on the ZEP, we were equal partners and they said I had to take basket weaving from their elders to understand the old ZEP baskets. And I didn't think so either then. My director Dick Doherty said, we're equal partners, you're gonna take a semester of that. That's when she was my teacher. And believe me, I learned more in that class than I would in any graduate class at Berkeley. Right, kid, he knows. But I did, it was a real eye opener and it really led the way, not only that, you know, to work with Ed, but she's a best friend of Julie's. So we had that nice connection. We had that link too. I couldn't believe, I really, took notice when I was talking about that basket. I'm really glad Dale was there to take that awesome picture. And then this Kathleen here, she takes a little tiny speck and puts it underneath the microscope there and tells you whether it's cedar root, spruce root, vine maple, or whatever by looking at the cellular structure of the wood. See, that's blown up about 10,000 times to get one growth ring that big and look at the cellular structure of the wood there. Ed really likes looking into the, you know, this is the science side of it for Ed. He's never looked inside of his spruce roots or cedar roots. Do you see most of it at that 2,000-year-old site as a cedar rip or a combination of root and land? Oh, yeah, man. This is the site dug by amateurs in the 19th century. This, on the Snoqualmie River, it flooded back in the 60s and these baskets were sticking out of the bank of the river there and somebody was going up the river and noticed them. So these amateur archeologists got in there and rescued all these beautiful pieces. Rescued about 60 pieces and most of those are preserved in the Burke Museum now. And so that's why I was able to replicate that particular burden basket there off of these pieces that were found here. In the blue clay there and as Ed passed around that replica and there's no oxygen in that. There's, you know, the brown color of soil is because it's rough, you know, the iron rusts. Well, there's no oxygen. It's blue still and bacteria fungus can't operate. So these baskets, there's some sites in the Charlottes that are 10,700 years old with spruce root braids. It's not part of our learning tradition in archeology, but Norris basketry. But it's, you know, very much supported by tribes because 90% of their material culture comes back to light in these kinds of sites. So we went to UBC, we were just there and that was a real eye-opener for Ed and I because we got to see even older baskets from the Frazier Delta. The 2,000 year old ones were identical to beater boats and I just got one little guy made here from that 4,500 year old weave. And boy, of all the weaves, I've never seen a weave like this. Any basket I've ever looked at in all the museums and everything, I've never seen this weave yet. And I prefer that, I really like this weave here. He's used that body weave in his traditional clam baskets today. And I made a clam basket. I made a clam basket using that particular weave. That's a miniature of the 3,000 and I'll show you the 4,000. This is the 4,500 year old. And he made samples of those and we need these. No, these little guys here, the 3,000 and then the regular weave that I do. 3,000 and 4,500. He first made these samples before he did the archaeology basket. We showed you these first. When I get all timers, I just have to look at those then I won't forget how to do that weave. Look at those samples. And the UBC bought this basket, it's on display now. And in their museum it shows you the different layers of time. So he decided to call it an archaeology basket. And that's his dog or neighbor's dog, Charlie. That's his beach on the end of that allotment. He probably had the only allotment still with a made of allotment with a beach. Anyway, some of you archaeologists were wondering, what is this? What are we doing then? Is it experimental archaeology? And it really isn't, according to John Cole, who's quite involved with this in wetland sites. It's not exactly reproducing circumstances, conditions. So it's not really experimental archaeology, Becca. But it is not really ethnoarchaeology since it does involve working with Ed and trying to understand a site in the past. But that isn't really what we were trying to do that Beterbowl site. We were trying to see the generations of how they connected to his generations. And so we call it generationally linked archaeology, where we work with the current artisan and archaeological evidence. Now you have to make this available to the artisans so that they can do this. And we've got to realize that as scientists, they've got to get in like today, get into the museum back room here at the Hearst Museum. And I've always found that without question, you can give a basket as Isabella is 3,000 years old. And she knows exactly. She can make it. She knows the material. She knows what it is used for. That knowledge is still here. I think you can do that with pottery in other parts of the world. We're sure of common. You've really worked with the artisans from the communities in the Southwest. You could probably take it back through the archaeology. And that'd be generationally linked archaeology. So we put this together and have our hypothesis. And we think it's valid. It had to be tested some more of this generationally linked archaeology. And it is experimental archaeology, but a different kind. We also were able to see if this was well accepted around the world in different places and SAAs. And so we got an invitation from Dr. Habu to go work with the Ainu. So here's Ed with his spruce roots from the Hoko River Mouth. But we both read this Ainu book from the whole thing by Pitsu, Bill Pitsu. And then I read Junko's classic book, Seminole Book on Ancient Japan. Really got ready. And then we went from Sailor's Sea to Ainu and had a wonderful experience visiting there. This is Dr. Habu. They really do have some pretty neat work internships. We talk about Josh working with Ed. Well, they do like three-year internships, correct? So we went to many of these centers. So this young lady is working in these, and then they learn language, dance, song, lume work, three years. So our Indian colleges don't quite do that. Sorry, again, Ken. I don't know who funds it. We paid our way, though. I mean, we did, because we offered. We were so excited, we were happy to do that. And then from there on, it was taken care of by Dr. Habu's gang. And these are plump lines from a wet site in Japan. They've got lots of wet sites. We don't do that. And I guarantee you, you've got in the bay here in those shimmons, if you looked, you'd find a waterlog part of that. Because I've seen him at Clearlake with Cordy changing out of the bank. If you looked, you know, we just don't do that. We don't learn to do that in our profession yet. But this is a Japanese plump line. And one, we found it. Kwakwas, my bae, that Ed is modeling here, but he makes the he, when we found it that day, he was there, and you might have been there, Becca. And he had his plump line and showed our students, this is what that is. Great work shots. That Japanese bamboo weaver came to show me about bamboo weaving. And then the reporter was there. And the next day, I was on the front page of the Japanese newspaper. But this is Koichi, one of the Ainu elders that was very impressed by how we could work together. He's a tree farmer, you know, say something about it. Oh, yeah, I was really, really happy to meet him because he raised his different trees on his property there. And I'm a tree farmer. I raise my own trees on my property. You need a tree farm, really, to do, you need a forest to do basketry. Yeah. So he's very fortunate to have his own. We saw these dugouts from down here out of Redwoods, but look at the Ainu dugouts, kind of similar in Koichi. Yeah, the Ainu canoes were very similar to... So Dr. Hibu is taking three of these books over for Koichi and other friends we met there. We saw some of the Jamong Museums, but Ed got to help him quite a bit with their ancient baskets. They didn't know quite everything about the Cedar Barton baskets he was able to explain because he makes them. And that's what you're talking about there, Ed. Oh, yeah. That's how you carry your rent there or something. Of course. So he's learning from this master bamboo weaver. I really liked it. I really enjoyed it. And then this is a replica of a 7,000-year-old bucket. Himegashu, what's the name of this site? And that's up in Kyushu down south. Higashinyo. Yeah? Higashinyo. Yeah, Higashinyo. But those are 7,000-year-old baskets. I can't hear you. I always hated taking roll in class because I'm awful with names, but anyway. These are an acorn pit, just like we found in Sunken Village at Portland, so that's why the Japanese crew sponsored us to do that dig. The National Historic Landmark site, but we couldn't get any federal people to even be interested with the Japanese sponsored it. The tribes took notice of that. That's perfect. This fellow here, Bruce Miller, he's, I think he brought it out in that statement. What does the maker of the basket want you to know? And the fact that artists like the basket maker might be the only conduit or the only link to this information in the past, of which Coast Salaries people today remain connected to the ancestors by these baskets that were found in these wet sites. And when I'm weaving those baskets, I can almost feel the presence of their hands helping my hands weave a nice-looking basket. So this is the whole Salish, it's a book, it's sort of like the layers of the whole Salish identity for 4,500 years. How many of us can look at that? Say that sort of thing. We got the Peace and Friendship Award, the Washington State Historical Peace and Friendship Award, and the Thomas Jefferson Medal was designed to when Lewis and Clark came out west, why they had that medal to give to the Native, the Indian people, as they met them coming out. So that Peace and Friendship Award. But you have to be working together. You have to be a Native, working with a non-Native to be qualified to get that award. So my son was always teasing me, oh, you had to work with a white man to get that award, huh? And it kind of says for promoting the diversity of Washington State, that the person who wrote the nomination is Barbara here, who's Suquamish's head of the Elder's Chair Committee. But she said they're spreading diversity, you know, the promoting the diversity of Washington and around the world to the Indian and Indian. This is their chair, Leonard Forrestman of Suquamish, the fat one, you know. Oh, that picture there, that's where I do my weaving in my home there. Now this is a studio where he teaches. You might, I just brought this little basket for curiosity because it relates to fishing, it relates to whaling. That black piece on the wall there, that's a baleen plate out of a big bowhead whale up in Alaska. And another basket weaver friend of mine challenged me to weave a baleen basket out of that plate. So I was able to cut strips and split them down and weave this little baleen basket. So I thought I'd bring that. But those were woven up in Alaska by the natives up there. And that weaving came into being when the bandsaw came in because that plate, you can only bandsaw it into the quarter inch strips. And then once you get those bandsawed out, then you can split it lengthwise. Otherwise you can't split it without bandsawing the quarter inch pieces out. So then they started making these beautiful baleen baskets up there back in the old, probably the early, right at the turn of the century, the early 1900s. And so it was probably the best thought I ever had in my life. I was reassessing those 2000 no-baths. And I thought, why don't I ask Ed Carey or challenge him to make those two? I'd do. He would just be biting at the bit to do it. He's that kind of personality. And that was the best idea of my life. And that made my retirement pass. But thanks, does there any? But we would certainly take questions and any questions? Yeah. I'm curious about the weaving, the basket that you found up in Canada that was 3,000, 4,000 years old. You said that you had not seen that pattern before. Was that just one piece, maybe the production of one weaver? Or did you find several pieces so there was a pattern used by that truck? Well, that site has very few baskets. Most of these in that test have at least 60, 80, 100. That one didn't. But that's as old as we have. And it's a big piece. I think they just found the one piece. So it might have been just that one person that went to buy this, but they got it. That's it there, but it's big. You know, it's a huge piece of peck basket. It's a large piece. Thanks, now. Glad you could come, glad I caught you on the whole evening. Yeah. Other questions? Yeah, so you guys are both talking about the forest with the cedar and some of the other trees. Obviously, you're using different parts of that to make the baskets. So how much management is that in jail? I mean, are they just on their own? Or do you actually go out there and do you prune them? Do you take care of those trees? And is that something that's long lived up there in the Washington area? I didn't quite hear very well. It's the management of the trees. Oh, yeah. You know, and how in order to really get the kind of roots and other, what do you do to do that? And do you think that that has antiquity? Yeah, I try to manage the forest there and plant little cedar trees. And but I try to plant them in a sandy area. Roots in a hard soil are just too crooked. But if this tree goes in a nice sandy hill, you'll get nice, long, straight roots. And so I try to plant these trees. Oh, trees that I planted eight years ago now are up. And I can actually harvest little cedar limbs off of the bottom of those right now and use them in the smaller baskets. And you know that when it comes to taking any of these prickly bark and other things, you have to ask that tree. It has a consciousness. Oh, yeah. Native way is to. A different management than clear cutting without ever saying boo, you know. Native way is to come up to the tree and you say a few prayers and ask it to give up a root or a limb and show respect to the tree before you go and start digging around but the root of the tree, the main root goes out and then these feeder roots come off of it, searching for nutrients. And they'll just go all over. So that's the root to go out there and dig and find those feeder roots and they lead me up to the main root. And so I prune those off and right away it's like pruning a fruit tree, they sprout a new one and start growing again. So you never hurt the tree by harvesting a root off of it. Or the limb too, the limb, it can sprout a new limb there too. So you have to be the botanist. But it's all the things, let me say science and culture. It's a biologist. It's pulling the bark off the tree that bothers me. I can't bring myself to pull a piece of bark off the tree because that injures the tree for the rest of its life. So I always look for downed trees and our places that are going to be logged before I gather my cedar bark. That has a question. Can I just have a comment? I think while you're down here you need to take Mike Fouda around the Bay because obviously he's missed. He's in front of the website. I definitely agree with that. I missed a lot of things. But yeah, if you have to drink, I've got a couple different places out there. Look over the landscape. He can say what he wants you to do. You've got to take Mike Fouda. It's true, it's nice, it's true. No, it's interesting and we don't do website archaeology at all down here. And after Washington, Oregon, they've done fabulous, fabulous work. And yeah, it's interesting, different training, different ways you're looking at the landscape. Yeah, we can learn a lot. Fouda, a couple other items here. This is a canoe baler made out of a piece of cedar bark, wet down and folded and put this little handle on. And they could just throw the water out of the canoe with a little canoe baler like this. And then I was digging up on the property and I hit this stone and this chip broke off of it. And these ancient clams were in there. I had no doubt these clams are millions of years old. And they look just like our steamer clams, only they're long and skinny rather than round. Our steamer clams are kind of round, oblong shape. But these are long and skinny clams. And then when our people, a wool fishnet out of maybe nettle fiber cordage, and then they tied up a little anchor rock, they found a crotch in the tree and they found rock on the beach and they cut some wild cherry bark and bound it there. Then they could tie these along the bottom of their net for a lid line that we have today. So if you've found that, either we find them in the 3,000. All you find is that pebble and you wouldn't think it was any different than this wouldn't have. Can I ask you a question about netting, making netting? Like you talked about the baskets needing a frame. I'll get you right there. You talked about the baskets making the frame. Do you think the people had some kind of a gauge to make netting? Or do you think it was just done like you make your baskets just by all? They had this little gauge. They carved this little net and they could put their cordage in it. And then when they released one length and tied, they're not. The net was a gauge, depending on how big that net needle was. And was that made of wood, do you think? And that was made out of a hard wood, yeah, that they carved like a nettle fiber. Like you would make it really strong. And I'm sure the angular name nettle comes from a connection with net making. And I really prefer the nettle fiber to dogbane or the fireweed stem too. But nettle fiber is really, really super stuff to work with. Peels off real easy and really strong. Can I ask you one more question about net gauges? Could they have been used bone like a rib from a large fish or an animal, a deer or something? Do you ever see any evidence of using a rib bone or a bone, I should say, for a net gauge? Or is it always just a thin piece of hard wood? I don't know. Archaeologically? I don't think so. I don't remember any. You know, in wet sites, you do find little wooden squares that were gauges just to make sure your not distance was correct. And those are made of wood? Wooden, yeah. Yeah, wood. There's a lot of things for wood you never see. Yeah. But that isn't possible. I mean, you certainly could take a bone and get a gauge and then just do it. I don't even remember. Sorry, are the baskets so like a large needle, a large gauge needle, to actually get the weaving? No, the baskets. All for the hard basket? No, the baskets are all hand woven, with your fingers and but a hard coil basket. You have to have an all. And you poke a hole through the bottom coil and bring your wave around and put it in there. And then you pull the top coil tight against the bottom coil. And then once you do that, you're actually forming a solid piece of wood that'll hold water. That's going to take a lot of time. We'll be around in an hour for that all afternoon. So let me keep going until then.