 Why 254? Imagine. OK, we handsome about that. I have got some great performance lined up for you. Niuru Band is Naul, NIuru Band is performing and I think that there is again a guest called Shaul who will be performing also. So welcome to this great show. It's New Ruban, all right? So, kwa, takashichagunke, jupo jikiya, si diyo? Minapenareki, si diyo? It's our fun. Wrong, so please say again. New Ruban. So, what's your name? My name is Shiazi. You're the lead singer, I guess, of course. Definitely, definitely. Okay, how long have you been, New Ru, has been around? Like, anniversary to June. So, yeah, our one year anniversary. So, bado, one year is not yet. Our next month or one month, okay? One year. One year. So, say your name again. New Ru. No, no, your name. Shiazi, Shiazi, Shiazi. I don't know, it went to a different name. I don't know which one, but it went to a different name. Okay, and then the gentleman? Buni. Buni, all right? And you've been with this band since the beginning? Okay, and the gentleman? Edu. The guitarist, Edu. Mani, you have great voices, you people. See these? You guys are great. Thank you so much for making time to come to my show. You're going to be performing a few more songs, right? We got you. You got us. Great, all right, so ladies and gentlemen, you have had the New Ru band. I hope I got that right this time around. And I want to start right away into the conversation today to introduce a topic that we have today. And today we are speaking about that your family history affects your present story. And what does it mean? That do not ignore that how you related with your father and your brothers and sisters back at your family or whether you are a single child, all those things do affect the way you relate with people today. Your work relationships, your romantic relationships, maybe why you keep dating the wrong people. Your family history might be affecting the way you relate with people today. And that's the conversation that we're going to be having today. And to help us with that conversation is Dr. Karochakua, who is a psychotherapist and a parenting coach. And she's going to be our guest today. So stick with us. And again, remember what I've mentioned to you. Go to our Facebook page, Y254 channel and be part of this conversation by commenting there, asking questions and stating your opinions. And I'll be reading them out in the second segment of my interview with Dr. Karochakua today. And so right now I'm going to give this time to now. I hope I get the name right, Shaul. Shaul. All right? So I'm going to give you the chance to Shaul who is going to perform a spoken word. Is it? Shaul, just move, come. So Shaul is going to, is a poet. A spoken word? What's your name, though? Shaul. So Shaul, yes. That's not just your stage name. It's also your... I keep your name for Paul. Ah, Paul, okay. Ah, I got you. All right. So go for it. I've prepared a piece, but I don't know what it is. It's called Upendo. Bensi. Bensi wa 30. Kwa jina upendo to lipenda na sana. Ali nipenda wakati sikuwa na kakitu, lakini kwa lalote, suali yenda li kwa jibu. Ali nipenda wakati sikuwa na haki. Ile raikstuni li kwa naionim, konu na badu li nishi kilia. Ali nipenda wakati li li kwa bubu, lakini misterizili li kwa evident, kama lineskofo hei dem sudi. Ali nipenda wakati. I was a nobody. Ile nyu bani lisha, Iko ana ta Iko ana ta bed, Iko ana ta tan, Ile giza tu yanda li fagye kanga. Ile kwa na lalam chana, usikuwa na shina li kichana. Ile jo ali sema na takapustro it forward from the head. So siwezi sema li niki zisha. Upendo wa suidmina, Ikondotu li kashikisha. Upendo aga itemela, sige mwa kea gimboza mwa prindzi. Nige mwa kea wimboa, taifando wa shinde. Kusimanga wakisha, namza wasin wakati, usikuwa na mahalina waza kati. Nyumbayangu siya newa pungi ateta kuja kutafutakiti. Ali stik na mimi. Kani pizia marafiki, agafanya tushi, kaneza hidi na familia. Unge li kusia, niki kwenbia pwanza, unge ni kanyanga, niki kanyagi and let it pass. Endo. Was my only love until, until li li popatakazi pesa maali hella. Ika ni introduce kwa ukuasi, Ika ni introduce kwa kiburi, pride, ni kanzaku realize, kunda na kongana macha, ni kanzaku jona. I became selfish. When I see them, I saw myself. When they speak sense to me, it was rapid. I viewed everyone as trash, and I think domanopendo kani damba. But was I hurt? No. I lived in self-denial. But action spoke volumes. I became a criminal. But I was rich enough to buy my way out of any situation. The pay that I gave to that poor man who worked for me was oppression. Nili kuana hardy fair akunifikisha to the land of unfairness. But when I landed there, I found no family, no friends, like there is everything that money could have by. But, but it couldn't. Like, there is a vacuum in my heart. Upendo jo, na ujaze pengo, ni ni achana na kiburi, umpango akando. I thought, niki wana pesa sita muhitaji, but I was wrong. So please come back, my love. My life is too dark. Come and light my candle. Wait. Do you? Here she comes. Gloy like a thousand lamps in one. Upendo mejawa na upendo, na mekupali we get back together. Na this time sit a mess. Pray diki kam ni taiveza. Nangalau, this time, makini tembeleha takosa hiti. Because my heart is a seed, na see plastic, and take and fake anything. In fact, my heart is now a throne on which Upendo will sit on. First, I can become a part of that. Have yote, ni buri, ni wo shahulia. Amazing. Nangalau, you spoke and you snapped your fingers. Shahul, amazing. Wow, okay. I hope it's not real. Even if it's real, it's even better. You're reciting for a friend, right? Yeah, for a friend. I see you. You'll be coming back? I might. You might. If I get something. Awesome. Give a hand to Shahul. Thank you. Awesome. Ladies and gentlemen, now we've come to that part where we start our interview today. And as I've mentioned to you, I want you to go to our Facebook page, Y254 channel. There is a post there about the show today. And I want you to tell me, do you feel that possibly where you came from has been affecting the way you are happy today? How you are relating to people? Do you think your past in the family that you grew up has affected the way you are able to interact with people today, especially loneliness? One of the biggest causes of loneliness is could be that you have never felt loved and a sense of belonging maybe to your dad or to your mom or to your even brothers and sisters. But you don't remember your family as a place that was a place you could really call home, a place you could be you without punishment, a place you could say I'm truly loved and accepted. So be part of this conversation by going to a Facebook page and commenting on that. And now I want to start right away with our guest today, Dr. Chakua. I have to keep taking that name to make sure that I'm getting it right. You can say Dr. Karo. Dr. Karo. Ah, that's perfect. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Thank you for making time to be here. It's my pleasure. It's a pleasure, right? It's my pleasure first of all. Now, please tell us a little bit about yourself for the sake of the audience and viewers from home. Okay. I am a psychotherapist. Who is that? What that is is a... You sounded to us what animal is that? It's not an animal. I'm a practicing psychologist and what I do when I work with my clients, I really help them explore why they are stuck, where they are stuck. And most of the time my direction always goes to issues they could have encountered in their past for them to be where they are to help them unstuck. I'm also a parenting coach and how I got into parenting was because again most of the clients that came into my space had parenting related issues and I thought that maybe the best thing is to equip the parents so that they can create better environments for their children so that their children don't end up in therapy. So that's what I'm really, really passionate about. I also teach psychology at public university. Where is that? More university. More university. Are you a lecturer there? Yes, I'm a lecturer. Perfect. Now this today's conversation is a rather interesting conversation and we are trying to paint a picture and that's what I want you to help us understand where we are saying that one should not ignore their family history because that could have a significant impact in the way they relate with other people. So maybe a young man could be going from one relationship into another romantic relationship not knowing why he attracts the wrong people or a lady attracts the wrong man into her life and kumbe the reason is so could you paint that picture for us so that we can understand better what this is all about? Yeah, first there's a I know that this conversation someone is likely to mistake it and say okay now we are blaming the past. So the issue is not really blaming the past but acknowledging that where you are at could have aspects of your past. Perfect. So what happens is that as a child you are very how we are wired as human beings how God created us is that we are pleasure seeking human beings. We are pleasure seeking people. That means we seek out positive experiences and as a child that's just natural that's why when a child is cold they cry when they're hungry they cry because they're like hey I need my needs met. So because of that if we experience situations that bring that go against that that probably are painful that are uncomfortable then that becomes that is not normal and therefore it leaves gaps as we grow. Okay. So basically if I get you Alice so if I grew up with a father who was unafectionate that's the gap you're mentioning is that now that causes a gap. Yes. So naturally I want my needs met immediately. Naturally I want to receive love naturally I want to be able to trust the environment and so if the caregivers in our space when we were young were not able to provide that then we grow up seeking ways. It's like you hear this phrase people say unfinished business. You know unfinished business sometimes sounds like a cliche and maybe people say that one has unfinished business and we laugh it off but the reality is that there is unfinished business and if you have unfinished business you will always seek to finish that business and that is now for looking for ways of fixing that unmet gap in effective ways in our relationships in our behaviors in how we are interacting with people in how we are responding to situations. Yes. Okay. Now so I'm going to use a very rough example just to create this one of the things that have been happening recently in the media are young men who have been killing let's say people they love because they they will not love them back and I'm trying to say okay there could be a myriad of reasons why they did that but do you think it can also be traced to a broken family could it be traced that they came from a situation where they learned violence is the only way to go. That could be a possibility that could be a possibility could be because that's all they have seen as a way of resolving issues it could be because well they could even be having a mental illness Yes. That's also a factor but for them to get to the point that they did they just didn't wake up that morning like Tuesday morning to go and do what it is that they did it's something that has piled up over time it could be experiences that they went through and they felt that violence is the only way to solve this because that is what it's familiar to them and the tragedy of it is that on a normal day they do not want to do that but they find themselves in those repeated cycles because they do not have the skills they never got the skills when they were young to be able to cope with the stressful situations to be able to cope with that situations that they were comfortable to cope with rejection and they probably sought relationships for the sake of feeling that gap because they are feeling rejected and so because they were broken they are likely to attract broken people as well The blind leading the blind Yes exactly so that's probably what is likely to happen and so when you're broken and this other person is broken definitely like you're saying the blind leading the blind you're really not going to get anywhere True. Now let's trace back let's pick a hypothetical situation where a lady has grown up with a father who is not emotionally present or maybe violent What are the possible future behaviors of such a lady? So as a young child what she will believe is that she's not good enough okay so she goes she gets into the world knowing that she's not good enough and that's what children do they turn the unfortunate situations on themselves and take the blame so my father rejected me or my father was violent or whatever to me because I am the cause and so they grow up believing and all this is unconscious it's not written anywhere so they grow up believing that they are not good enough they are not worthy of love and because of that then they go out of their way to try to prove how worthy they are and therefore if mostly if it's a relationship with a dad that wasn't right then they're going to tend towards father figures or men they will want to seek approval and love from men to fill that gap like I said it's unfinished business all this is unconscious so to finish this business because I didn't get that love then I'm going to get a love projected somebody else yes the love of a man and it will be I will do anything and unconsciously you get attracted to the same kind of person that your father was because that unfinished business I have to go back to my father and finish this business of completing this love correct so a girl might be attracted to a gentleman who in the beginning of the relationship it looks his position is like this guy is protecting and so she feels comfortable but over time what she thought was protection becomes possession and control and violence because as you are saying she is trying to do some unfinished business and usually those signs are there right from the start you know these things people say he just changed suddenly no it's just that when you are getting into that relationship you know the they feel good hormones are really high they overtake the realities that you see they blind you yeah they blind you yeah go ahead very good now let's now paint a picture of now a gentleman a gentleman I want us to explore maybe a parent by parent so we have now a gentleman or a young boy growing up with a father who is emotionally absent or violent what becomes of this young man what are possible projectile of the life projectile of this young man so is this violent what's the maybe violent towards the father I mean towards the mother and towards the children or simply emotionally absent or yeah the likely trajectory and you know this is case by case I always say people end up different because you know their personalities are different absolutely and other circumstances come into place and choice yeah and choice as well but the likely trajectory is that they will soak in that this is the this is the only way they know life is okay and they will even as they are growing they might be like no I don't like that I think I'm going to be different and they might even set themselves to try and be different but they will still end up because that is the family when it's like a sponge when a sponge soks you know it soks and soks so as children we soak in so the boy will soak in the violence the boy will soak in that kind of environment and then the only time it will come out is when they are squeezed so and when they are squeezed is when under pressure okay so when that pressure comes out when you squeeze you'll get out the same exact thing that you soaked in you cannot get apple juice when you soaked in orange juice or mango juice or let's even say bad water just because you're soaking you're soaking spoiled water you cannot give out juice yeah you can't give out juice it might have that color but really it's still it's still dirty water so that is the likely trajectory that whatever you soak in is what you get out especially under pressure under pressure now let's look now on the other side so we have a lady who is growing up with an absentee mother right or with a mother who is let's even if violent or she does not understand she doesn't feel understood by the mother do we have are there similar projectiles or trajectory yeah it's similar male female you know we are all at the end of the day we are human and our psychological makeup is pretty similar of course when push comes to show the specific ways we respond to things but even for the lady it's going to be the same thing you still soak it in and you still get out what it is what you soaked in under a lot of pressure and most of the time like I say children believe certain things about themselves when life does not go well and those things they believe about themselves they set out in life to either prove those things wrong or to try and live according to those for example if you say I am not good enough you will because you are feeling you are not good enough so one to go against that you want to be the good girl people please are or the good boy a domat just so that you can prove to the world the belief that you are not good enough approval is more important to you than being authentic that being authentic but then you can go to the other side and say hey you think guys think I am not good enough I will show you and then now you become aggressive so both extremes still come back to I am not good enough that's why the bully and the domat could have the same belief about them family or same experiences beliefs about themselves but how they interpreted it and consciously becomes now our audience here are students right so how could the family history affect the academics precisely academics it really depends on the level of what their parents believed about education the kind of pressure the parents put them through just to get the marks and the grades will affect how they view academics how their parents viewed success is success being good at sports or is success having a good report at the end of the day so wherever they are at this point as university student they are still carrying a lot of beliefs about what their parents thought success to be failure to be whether they pushed too much to be a certain way well there are just an easy going way to look at education so it really again depends on what views they sucked in so what if someone was constantly criticized how does that translate into how can that affect the academic performance so you're constantly criticized so you believe you're not good enough okay and therefore you will struggle in school or you will prove that you're not good enough and that's why I say this thing can go either way so if you're criticized so much and at the back of your mind you're like when I get out of here I will prove that I am good and therefore you want to get your identity from performance being performance which unfortunately in our era it's really just about academic performance so if you criticize you can either believe that to be true or you can decide to go against it so it can still go either way someone could be failing exams because suddenly they have this voice in them that they have taken from their father or mother or someone in the family who constantly told them that they are not good enough so anytime they see an exam paper despite all the preparation they end up failing simply because the disease voice telling them suddenly they are not good enough that's what I'm hearing you say and it's because the environment surrounding exams and education was just an anxious environment so they connect exam to anxiety so it doesn't matter like you're saying it doesn't matter how well they have prepared exam is equal to anxiety and maybe it was because during that time the parents were also anxious and I don't know if you know when kids are doing class 8 or kids are doing from 4 the level of anxiety the parents have is way more than what the kids have and he's naturally just so keen that anxiety before we take a break we're going to take a short break now but I have seen especially girls stick into very abusive relationship because the fear of being lonely having grown up from families or unloved it motivates them to stick into very abusive relationships simply because the idea of being alone is more scary than the fact that they are being in an emotional and physical abusive relationship and then that's very unfortunate because also society pushes us to want to hook up and to be with someone like that's the thing that if I'm not with someone and so I'd rather stick in that relationship as abusive as it is because they don't feel good enough they feel like whatever abuse they are experiencing is their fault and that's another very unconscious thing that we have like it's my fault maybe if I had just not said what I said this person would not have done this and it's very easy for women and for girls to believe that because they're also feeling unworthy it's the girls or the woman's job to keep this relationship together and so if it's not working it's your woman's fault so we're going to take a short break right now ladies and gentlemen I hope you're enjoying this conversation dear viewer and I want you, I remember what I mentioned to you please go to our Facebook page and if you have a question to our psychologist our psychotherapist here will be giving my audience a time to ask a question about after this performance from Nuru and so please go to our Facebook page at Y254 channel and post your comments there and we are going to be reading them out remember we are discussing the fact that where you come from your family, the relationships you have with your family your parents can be affecting the way you live your life today so be part of this conversation but for now I'm going to give it back to Nuru let's go Panga safari kuru din yumbani hukuniliko halingu mu mawazo kichwani mateso jamani masu ali mo yoni uhaligani kipenzi changu uli enyumbani nina pokuwa za moyo how to li nina pokuwa za moyo how to li ayaba sikari buni tena kwenye that's gone welcome back to the part that was Nuru band performing a beautiful that's your original you people even the first one it was an original wow so ladies and gentlemen if you are getting married this is the band if you are graduating this is the band this is the band to call if you are doing if something good is happening like you being alive celebrating that you are alive this is the band if you have your first anniversary of your existence as a band next month this is the band to call to perform your first anniversary so very good that was Nuru and I'm going to give remember what I mentioned to you ladies and gentlemen go to a Facebook page or your opinions your suggestions I'd like to read them but for now I'll ask you to pass the mic to the audience so we can we can have a few questions so can I see by the hand the four who have the questions the four alright so let's start from back there from the gentleman as we come so name where you starting brief question let's go the decision is going to come from the father and you go and ask like the peers like advice and obviously they are going to give you the wrong advice how you supposed to go about that because they are the only people who understand you perfect thank you was your name again? Mustafa thank you so much pass the mic to the gentleman right in front there go for it my name is Falma from the great UN okay I have a question yes please how can someone sustain 30 negativity where he feels like he is being negated or discriminated from the family how can one cure it very easily so your question is you feel rejected and you are trying to wonder how do you deal with that first I'll answer those questions you can pass the mic to the lady here thank you so much maybe you handle those two questions and then you go back to the two ladies Mustafa was talking about how how he can coming from a family where the father makes most of the decisions and so what do you do because if you go to the mother dad is going to make the decision either way yes it's a bit hypothetical I wish I was clearer about a specific issue but in a general sense what I do when I work with my clients is really help them figure out first of all do they believe about themselves and sometimes what you believe about yourself becomes you project it because your history has been he will not listen anyway so you've given up we call it learned helplessness you become helpless and you don't you give up so I would say what have you believed about yourself and would you start focusing on the fact that you still do have qualities and strengths within yourself that you can actually make decisions some of those decisions you can make without necessarily having to get the final word from your father then also there are things in life that you know what do you have control over in this in your situation at that point what do you have control over what decisions can you make and be okay with them and then the rest you you do that prayer we always say God grant me the serenity to accept what is within to accept what I the things that I cannot change the courage to change the things that I can change and the wisdom to know the difference so I wish there was a little bit more specificity but I think let's put a specific example so let's say this is a student and going to the third year and the father said I'm not going to pay your school fees and the mother cannot do anything about it I think we can being the students I'm trying to imagine that that could be a very an example to go with okay so here I am I want to go to my third year university and my father said when you come and there is nothing you can do he is always going to make the final decision I'm imagining that hypothetical situation I think for me when it comes to finances and fees if that's the source it's coming from that's the source it's coming from so what else can you what do you have within yourself that can help you think of ways of generating income because that's for me a clear case of I have no control I can't go and put a gun in his face and say give me the money but again back to what have you believed about yourself am I helpless this is the end of the road for me what else can I do to be able to get money what are the ways the options are not necessarily limited what other ways can I use to get income so this door has been closed let me see if I can pass through the window even if it's going to take a bit longer than I had expected I keep looking for spaces that I can and that comes when you start believing that you are actually capable and you're not the same person you're not into that space of learned helplessness where now I can't do anything so what other options are there relatives could relatives be involved what else can you do can I involve my pastor can I involve the extended family so then we have the second question how do I deal with constant negativity rejection and Falme was very specific how can I make these feelings go away quickly and so the reality is that those negative feelings will not go away quickly just acknowledging that that feelings are there because of a reason therefore why first of all do I have those feelings and not necessarily how can I just go away in the first quickly we have been socialized to not express our emotions and especially men but either way you are chapuwa then you are told do not even open your mouth or maybe you go through a situation and you're feeling sad and someone asks why are you sad so we have been socialized to have feelings to acknowledge them and to express them and therefore for me the first thing I would say Falme is whatever feelings those are negative feelings they are valid they come from a place and we have to acknowledge that those feelings are there if you don't you will suppress them and somehow they will chomoka in another way you know accept them acknowledge that they are there and ask yourself where are they coming from they are always having to come from somewhere and that's one of the areas that we need to start training ourselves even our students as human beings to just be able to sit back and ask ourselves what is going on with me right now why am I feeling the way I am feeling right now what exactly happened and where is it coming from in this moment why am I so if you are able to acknowledge that and feel that by the way it takes away it relieves a lot of the negative feelings because you are able to pinpoint it and say this is the reason where it is coming from and if you practice that over and over again you start becoming more present and more self aware to the fact that right now what I am feeling is a lot of sadness and the reason I am feeling a lot of sadness is because I was expecting my dad to pay fees and he has not paid fees and I feel like my future is gone just giving an explanation to that giving a name to your feeling already relieves and once that is relieved what happens is that even the brain gets the message that things are not so bad we can handle this and actually you start thinking differently when you allow yourself to acknowledge the bad feelings you remind me of this bad advice that I hear sometimes people saying telling someone going through a bad time you should not feel that way you should not feel that way emotions you cannot tell a person to feel about a situation and maybe what I could add there to Mufalame is forgiveness forgiveness and don't allow anyone to tell you forgive and forget that's a very bad advice so forgiving forgiving is about letting go of the anger and the resentment and what hurts you forgetting is wrong you should not forget because forgetting is your forgotten lesson continue into a very abusive relationship because they forgive and then they forget the lesson that they learned from that whatever they were forgiving so forgive but do not forget so I think some of us have been told that advice is a terrible advice is a really terrible advice that can make you trap yourself in a very terrible environment we are going to read some comments before I give it back there so we have Riko Atiga Eric saying yes it can really affect if you do not accept the situation you have gone through and find a way to walk out of it, thank you so much Eric then we've got Steve Mwaneke watching and following the conversation from Nax Vegas that's Nakuru pipeline Asante Sanna Mwaneke great voices at Newre Band or something Kyu Hey Josford, Josford is a great fan of this show Matmusioka, I'm watching the show from Konza I agree that my past can affect my future Newre Band you are elite Mkotob, can I join the band I think there's some reason Josford loving the show say hello to Kirinyaga University comrades then we've got Sandy Boy Kenya following and then watching from Kirinyaga, thank you so much please keep those comments coming on our facebook page and if you have a question please ask to our guest today so I'm going to ask now the other two ladies please ask the questions go ahead thank you for your time I'm Magdanduta from Nibbs College Magda from Nibbs College so my question is how does one deal with when you feel like maybe your parents are absent when you are growing up like our parents are the people that we are looking up to but now you feel like they are absent they are coming out from work they are home at night maybe you slept at maybe you feel like they are not there when you are growing up when you feel you need that appreciation but they are not there so how do you deal with that as an adult now thank you so much Magda and then finally I am a caregiver from Nibbs College we have a way to excuse the abuser you ask someone why is taking to this relationship despite this person doing this and that which is obviously wrong and they will always have an excuse they will tell you maybe this person is under pressure so could you also ask if you have a problem with the mic most victims of abusive relationships always have a way to excuse the abuser you ask someone why is taking to this relationship despite this person doing this and that which is obviously wrong and they will always have an excuse they will tell you maybe this person is under pressure so could you also blame this on past relationships perfect so two question Magda is wondering how do you deal now as an adult with the fact that you had parents who never motivated you were there for you and questions from Hilda also now you have friends a friend who is taking an abusive relationship the woman is beating now we had recently that Mugabe was a victim actually for a long time the wife was beating Mugabe a lot really? it was on the news that I used to get beaten to a point where the military wanted to hide him in the barracks anyway that aside let's start this question so from Magda how do you deal with feelings of rejection that you have carried from the past and what do you do with them now it's good that you are I think the idea is how do I deal with how do I try to reestablish a relationship and the parents who are absent while I was growing up is that to reestablish a relationship my parents were absent they never motivated me they were not there for me when they came home I am already asleep by the time I wake up they are already gone to work so how do I establish that emotional connection that was never there because now you feel emotionally distant and disconnected from them I think first of all again acknowledging that whatever happened and your parents did what they did for reasons and we are not excusing what they did but we are also not blaming them and saying they are bad people because we find ourselves doing whatever with most of the time it's unconscious so really acknowledging and being able to ask yourself how is it affecting me now how do I deal with that relationship I think that reaching out to them would be one way and reaching out to them is to go and sit down and be very clear about what it is that they did without going in there to blame them or throw stones at them but this is coming with the desire that my intention here is to heal this relationship and not to come and blame you and throw stones I feel that at this point I want to have a relationship with you so acknowledging that are wrong and I put it in quotes are wrong was done is a huge part of the healing and then the next step I think you talked about forgiveness part of the forgiveness is being able to speak out what it is that was done to you it may not necessarily be to be the person who did it but just being able to speak out and acknowledge but if you desire to have a relationship with your parents it would be good to go back and speak out what wrong was done to you and be able to say I'm here not to make you feel bad but because I want now to reestablish a relationship and the reason you want to do that Magda is because if that gap is not closed that's what you will transfer once you have a family that's what you will transfer to your children and it's going to be a cycle so some of these steps we do like forgiveness they are not necessarily because we are great people and we are amazing people and it's easy to forgive it's because we want to be able to entire ourselves from the things that happen and so we want to have a level of freedom so that we don't recycle that to the people who are who will be under our care so that we don't recycle that and journaling could be a good way I guess journaling is a great way of just sitting and saying talking about what happened to you and just writing it out talking with a friend if you're feeling like it's really affecting you a lot talking with a professional yeah talking to a professional therapist perfect and Hilda was asking if the she has a friend maybe who is stuck in an abusive relationship and when she tells him or hey look this person is abusing you this victim excuses the abuser and I think again we don't want to say it's completely because of their past but their past could contribute to where they are because someone who stays in an abusive relationship is someone who has a very low or a very unhealthy self esteem they really feel like they deserve being in that place and you know these cuts across social economic it doesn't matter how intelligent or how well put together you are or whether you have it all together or not as long as someone has sense that they are not good enough and they deserve to be battered and abused they are going to stay in that relationship so the best way to help them is not to keep getting them hey get out of this what's wrong with you because you're battering them even more it's more being there supporting them and letting them know and I understand that you are stuck it's understandable that you're stuck means when you're stuck you don't have a way out but there's a way out helping people understand why they are in situations you're a psychologist as well it's really one of the greatest gifts you can ever give someone is to help them understand why they are in that situation so helping them understand that it's because they are feeling terrible about themselves because they have a low self esteem why they are staying there and not necessarily say what is wrong with you just pick your things and walk away that is almost impossible it's inconceivable for them so really just helping them understand where they are at is because of how they feel about themselves would be the best gift that you can ever give them and letting them know I'll support you of course if it is dangerous if it's life threatening then we are not going to tip to around it that is when you really just help them to get out and then once they are out that's when you help them understand themselves once they are out can someone intervene if the person you're trying to save and cannot get themselves out is actually getting physically abused can you ask a third party before this person gets you're talking about homicide this day is it okay to sometimes we are a bit low to go into a matter of relationships but now you have someone is being physically abused is it advisable to find a third party to go and rescue this person physically inform their parent say your daughter is getting killed somewhere I think at that point there's no decorum, there's no tiptoeing there's no diplomacy when someone's life is in danger I think that's when you just step in and be like hey you need to get out there and also empowering them and helping them understand that if it happens they actually have a voice they can go, they can fill out a p3 form they can say it to someone because sometimes people stay in those relationships quiet for a very long time so just giving them that one state that you can actually go and fill out a p3 form I think it's a p3 you can fill it out because that now gives a voice it gives them a voice and also sends a message to the abuser that it's no longer between the two of us you can continue this is not our secret anymore I think one of the things that she has mentioned this person has a low self esteem one thing that you can do is to help them to communicate value to them to communicate that they are wati and that they are better than this so that they start developing a sense of value in themselves and they are able to make a judgment by the way I don't deserve this so it's very very important but bottom line I think one of the things that I've realized is at the end of the day people have to make choices and sometimes unless they are willing to make a choice there's nothing much really you can do at the end of the day yes it boils down to you acknowledging and just accepting that really there is an issue here that needs to be dealt Doctor Karo it's been a pleasure please club for Doctor Karo thank you so much for making time to be on the show it has been such a pleasure our time unfortunately has run out but I'm sure you would not mind coming back again to continue this conversation I would love to thank you thank you so much for making time gentlemen and ladies that has been Doctor Karo lecturer at Moe University a psychotherapist a family parenting coach and it has been amazing having her here and I'm sure you have learnt a thing or two together my viewers right here and remember this show is going to be repeated tomorrow from 11.15 so you can watch it again and learn the lessons once again so I thank you for enjoying this now I'm going to read a few more comments before we close it up yes where are these comments where are these comments oh there we have Jacqueline Pendo saying yes it does 100% from experience okay thank you so much Jacqueline I think Atiga Atiga Eric we had read that yes it can really affect if you don't accept the situation you have gone through and find a way to work okay big up to these people who have been watching and have liked our show Gidwa Jujja Gidwa Jujja farm and then we have Alex Mugendi John then Elisaphan Kanaari Jogorna and then we have Sandboy Kenya and Kahugi Dennis Musundi Godz scroll down thank you so much for those who have been watching from home and being part of this conversation I make some noise for the University of Nairobi students can I hear some noise make some noise to the Nib students in the house and make some noise to Shaul make some noise make some noise for new band amazing stuff and finally make some noise to our guest today Dr. Karo very good and make some noise to the host of the Patuk Show thank you so much for watching the show God bless you have a good night new band close the show for us thank you so much why don't you give me some la la la love