 What's up everyone I started a little early just to let the crowd build up before Old so not dog gets here. How y'all doing? What the fuck is up? I was just looking at this old this old hemp BC catalog and thinking How nice would it be to have some of that nl5 purple indica? I think that'd be really cool And I think I think we might have just made some Yeah, but I would be interested to see what the The BC purple indica is like how much different it is I'm like this nl5 Hawaiian indica now. This is the BCC coast stuff, which is Probably five by two not just five, but we don't know for sure either way very cool but I Anyway, so yeah, I was just shooting this shit trying to build shit up before Dude gets here But yeah So it's a haps ladies and gents Today we are gonna talk about I actually have it written down. I wrote things down this time Try to be more organized for y'all So I'm not usually So this is gonna be it's gonna start off as the bro science episode which is essentially like Different things you hear in cannabis that like you're pretty sure are real or but they just turn out to be old wives tales No offense to any old wives hanging around Yeah, so we thought that'd be cool when someone gave us that idea and I think that's That's that's what's up From the Hawaiian lights stuff probably the dog shit Hawaiian lights just because of all the unique possibilities that come from it I think that's probably gonna be the one in the bomb thread of course because I'm threat to the shit Here we go Here's the so not dog As Darby a lapping up a pool of water all loud as fuck evening Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, what are you doing hiding from the heat? Yeah, me too, dude. I have a fan on right now. Is the audio weird at all no, okay good I don't think so. Oh, yeah, does it smoke it? Yeah, sorry bridge just brought her some some stuff from Trader Joe's someone's a strawberry lemon scrub, huh? I wish I had a sense of smell. That's Yeah So what's up? Well, I wrote down a bunch of stuff today to go over and I don't know if you had a chance to write Anything down or do you have anything you want to just start off the jump with and we can start off the jump? I mean so we thought we would talk for a bit about Bro science versus real science hold on that. Let's start off. Actually, let's do a quick I don't know what you'd call it. Just say this is you know This is what we know as best as we know it right now. I am often wrong constantly wrong and and You know shit updates all the time So this is as best as we know it right now as we were trying to bring it to you But if you find something different and have a strong opinion on it, let us know We're always open to new Suggestions and ideas. So yeah, it is because there's a Yeah, I mean that that could go for almost any show when we talk about history or this or that or whatever We're trying to give you like a version that we hope is pretty accurate, you know and and so on and so forth But there's areas where you can misspeak, you know or just areas where that later on you get a detail Comes on that changes your perspective on something to sure so For a long time. Yeah, actually our buddy just said we should maybe even talk about that like flush versus no flush Yeah, that's actually a really good one, but The whole idea is more of like now that cannabis is becoming legal And medical and all this different stuff. There's an aspect where actual science is getting used on it Yeah, where for a long time The science that was getting used on it was actually pretty limited and so we were left with a lot of observational stuff Yeah, and you know with like breeding and stuff like that and Punnett squares all that like like Taking other knowledge from other forms of plant breeding and work and trying to apply it to weed Yeah, you know, and it's only really been Probably the last ten years. I would say Five someone asked me to bleak You know five five maybe ten years that it's opened up enough that Like more science is being done on things Yeah, and not only that not only more science is being done But like more reputable Scientists in their field are willing to get involved Yeah, and give their opinions on stuff You know and and so like kind of like a theme of like what what we knew then versus what we know now Yes, you know and because a lot of this information and you know history and otherwise the science part is no different a lot of it is oral Yes, it's like it's down. It's passed down from older stoners to you Yeah, you know you hear about it through people you respect and and all this different types of stuff and so You know there's that's kind of how information was disseminated Yes Amongst groups. Yeah forums and and little bbs is back in the day Yeah, or yeah little little friend circles. Oh, yeah little friend circles at the grow store Little this and that the few books or few stuff or most people would just read stuff from other Disciplines. Yeah Right and try to apply it to weed as best they could adapt. Yeah and so people like even in the sense of like the even in the sense of Like medical information Matt and I were talking about this where it's like for a long time It was it, you know, it still is it was a schedule one drug And so you needed the DEA's permission to even study it because you couldn't possess it legally without their say so, right? Yeah, so For like 40 years, they would do this thing where they would only approve studies looking for cannabis harm Yeah, so if you said your study was I want to look and see if it shrinks match balls and Gives them anxiety and shortens his lifespan. They'd be like here's some weed go test it Yeah, and they'd find out it absolutely does the weird but if you wanted to say, yeah I want to see if it lowers not so dogs fricking, you know blood pressure and like, you know increases his appetite and lowers his Estrogen yeah, whatever the case may be they would deny. Yeah, what happened is is that they ended up you got like 40 You got 40 years plus of science looking for cannabis harms Yeah, because they wanted data points that could prove their case and make keeping it illegal and Keeping it the way that it was to have like scientific backing. Yeah propaganda. Yeah So as a result of that we have a lot of knowledge and we have a lot of extensive studies on what the worst stuff that cannabis does Because that's all they were looking for but we have relatively little shit on what it's good for. Yeah And you know and even stuff like, you know, we're gonna have a upcoming episode where it's all about Aromas and scents and terpenes and all this different stuff, but even just the terpene itself aspect Yeah, right and like and and the names behind those things rather than people just describing aromas Yeah, 20 years ago people weren't talking turps. Yeah, I still suck at that part myself Right or even like knowing what the turps are knowing how they combine. Yeah, you know, I mean like you take art There's only so many primary colors Yeah, but you start blending those primary colors and you can get all these different shades, right? 16 million something like that. Yeah, and you know to some degree sensor like that, too You start blending terpenes and theols and all these other things that I'll mispronounce. Yeah But you know like when we were getting into cannabis, none of that stuff was being studied on any kind of accessible level. No It just didn't exist. No, like the closest I saw like when I was getting in was DJs all like olfactory But that was entire that was cool, but that was more like a wine Yeah, like a training your nose to other things you might recognize as a scent Yeah, that wasn't so much science like so a lot of a lot of bro science ends up just being like Observational shit that may or may not be right. Yeah. Yeah, you know like I joked with Matt on an earlier podcast or whatever that You know back in the day like we used to put our favorite Nugga Mexican in the resin chamber Fucking resin chambers and you'd smoke and you'd smoke that last because the you know The science was you're gonna coat that bud and all that unburned THC and resin all that damn fucking resin Yeah, and then the last Nug you smoke of your bag is the best one because it's coated in all that extra free goo That's gonna get you high Yeah, what's in the biz if you scrape scrape the resin chamber first and then coat that on the outside of the Bud too that really helps but that was I mean that was like that was accepted Science knowledge in my crew. Oh, yeah for sure for sure It was super common common in the 80s and 90s or whatever right and you so you take your best bud and you ruin it Yeah Right and then you'd like sit there and smoke it and burn all funny because it had all this like wet Yeah, you know metal pipe goo But that was accepted that was that was the accepted thing to do you you read that was the resin They put that there so you could fit a bud in and resonate the bud. Yeah That's funny dude. Yeah, because we didn't have any science to tell us otherwise. Yeah, no, it's stunk. We knew that much Yeah, it's done. We knew that much, you know But that that was accepted, you know, there used to be a thing Which is funny now because when you dig into history Most fire is herm, but I mean it used to be accepted bro science, right that You know seeds from hermaphrodites were shittier. Yeah, that's that's bad That's and that like you don't if you use that like you could fuck up the line You wanted like straight male female mating. Yeah, that was the way to go And if you you know if you you know popped her me seeds the chances that it would be her me and you'd never be able to get it out So a lot of people were scared of of beans and buds Yeah, and they also the conclusion was that herms had low THC every time too, you know Yeah, and then the big one the cushion the sour diesel and like a million Phenomenal fireweed is all like hermy bag seed. Yeah, you know, but like we didn't understand breeding enough the science of breeding You know, we thought that like If you did a male female you probably wouldn't get the herm gene Yeah, but if you hermed, you know, not that if the plant hermed it obviously had the gene. Yeah Because it heard. Yeah, because it heard because it heard, you know, it's like that's what it did It already had the gene in it or it wouldn't have done it. Yeah That's a special gene that that isn't in most cannabis kind of bright it out So we had to so we had to Protopipes are actually made in one town north of me in Willets They're still made there a little shop, you know The protopipe strangely enough right that was a classic early head shop metal pipe Yeah, you know, it had the lid that went on the top and it had the scraper and it had the little resin chamber It had the whole thing, you know Yeah, and and so, you know So a lot of this stuff is like you start smoking and you start learning the legends and the shit like that around Your little circle and then you start reading some books, you know And that's kind of where like bro science comes from bro science is like people observing stuff and Then saying it's true and then other people around you agree and then it sort of gains weight Yeah, because like a bunch of people are saying it and then you're telling some, you know Some younger person than you about it and they just buy it hook, line and sinker. Oh, yeah Yeah, so yeah, I mean now obviously like with You know with feminized breeding and stuff like that like that the whole science of You know, or even like even here's another bro science thing like Matt and I were chatting about which is You know pale seeds are bad Yes, and the best healthiest most mature seeds are all dark and have tiger stripes. Yes and There is some truth to like fully tiger stripes seeds are mature for the most part and pale seeds can be immature Yes, but as any breeder will tell you that that tiger stripe is a skin Yeah, it's a thin little layer like an onion skin almost on the seed and so it'll if you blow your seeds like we all do you know like We actually put it through a blower and it and it blows the the husks off and whatnot It's very easy for to get knocked around and not the tiger stripe ball So yeah, and there's also the fact that you know, like they're they're a little tiny African Landrace seeds that are like Yeah big that are totally black or totally gray, you know, it just really depends on the region the type The type of pollen the the maturity of the pollen hitting the plant What part of the plant was making the seed all sorts of stuff goes into that So but in the back in the day, it was pale seeds bad. Yeah. Yeah, and it's still and it still persists I mean, I was having a talk this week with our our homie Caleb and he was saying that like, you know A lot a lot of seed he throws into the not good pile Yeah, but it would have pretty damn high germination rates Yeah, most of the stuff that like if anything's even remotely great Even if I know that's like genetic on it and it's just what it is I won't sell it because I know that it's just gonna cause problems people don't yeah Yeah, he'll say, you know, he'll start out with a bunch of dark tiger stripe seeds And you put them through the blower and you put them in some bags and you handle them and all that and then at the end There's one or two that have it and the rest of the pack is is doesn't have it. Yeah So, you know But that was like straight science like if you got all white seeds was a sign of immaturity What's one of the most extreme ones you think you've heard when it comes to bro science? I mean, I think I started with it with the with the put resonate your buds but That's a good one. Yeah that one and the and the hermaphrodism contaminating everything forever more and ruining your weed I had a good one and this was Early on when I lived in in my la vista I had a dude come up to me at a party and tell me that he shocks his plants with batteries to turn them purple I think at some point someone had told them that they shock their plant Meaning shock it with, you know, cold or extreme temperatures and he took that to mean Oh, I put my car battery hook that shit up fucking jump that shit and turns it purple So that was one of my favorites that you shock your plants with electricity to turn them purple there was there was always some and and the issue is is that you know when it like because when bro science ended it wasn't like it was amazing either because When actual science started getting into play before when all we had was observational traits Yeah, almost all breeding was all selection was done Based on Observe observable characteristics. Yeah, because that's all you had. Yeah, how did it grow? How did it look what the leaves look like what the resin content did how did it burn? What it tastes like and then once you started getting all this data people started trying to incorporate all this data Into breeding. Yeah, and a lot of them fucked it up I like that someone brought up to Kool-Aid one. That was another fave the what and feeding the plants Kool-Aid to turn them purple Oh, yeah, yeah, or adding adding flavors to the roots. Yeah. Yeah, and make some cherry That way with some Kool-Aid powder to the roots Yeah I mean now it is the one thing that is true is that if you do if you do there's a plant that has a Propensity to turn purple You can shock it sometimes with cold. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a common one. That's a common one Then that one's actually true, you know Yeah, it's got started mostly when you get some cold snap nights out here outdoor style Yeah, and you'd see some stuff that had been green all summer and all of a sudden it went dark on you Yeah, all of a sudden it was fucking black and then you'll see you'll see some people like You know trying all that like pouring ice on top of their weed and door Yeah, trying to get that color change because all of a sudden colors important for the last few years again, you know, yeah Yes, you know sugar water to make it frosty I don't even I think most sugar water like the the pores on the roots are too small to even absorb it Yeah, it's mostly there to like feed the microbiome or whatever that's in your soil mass more so than it is to like shoot up Your plant, you know, yeah, exactly But but yeah, I mean, it's like so all you had back in the day was legends and people trading information And that's why so many of us like look look at like Rob Clark's book like the Bible for a breed Yeah, because it was like did he have competition? Not really. I mean later. Are we reading book? Not necessarily no other than that one You know during that era later on I mean great green had his breeder's Bible, but that was much later That was way way later. Yeah, exactly. So not really no I mean, he was like basically like the only person on the hill Yeah, so if you wanted to learn how to breed and how cannabis even worked You know that was where you went Yeah, and we got very fortunate that he got so much of it right For so long we were very fortunate because it could have been anyone doing that and getting it very wrong And it probably would have been past as you know cannon forever Someone just asked me if I have any advice on greenhouse. That's like pretty general and yeah I've grown in greenhouses for decades. So Yes, but I don't know what But you know, yeah, there was there was you know There was all this stuff and there was all this experimentation going on and it was like they were looking for harm in weed Yeah, and you know, nobody knew I don't think when was the first time you even heard the word CBN or CBG or CBD It was pretty early on but I think most people didn't know the difference between CBG and CBN at the time, you know You know, I mean I I like we we got some like we you know, we used to call it pretend to go We got bunked a few times by we thought was kind bud and it was gorgeous Hemp yeah gorgeous hemp. Yeah, or it was gorgeous. Yeah, it looked like it looked like $400 with an ounce weed Yeah, but the mech but the green Mexican got you higher. Yeah, but I remember at that time, you know in Chicago or whatever I didn't even I didn't even realize that hemp had those things Yeah, I didn't even know that hemp looked like weed back then like I didn't even know that they look They could be confused for each other at all like that we in Cal so Cal We had no experience with hemp except for when they would bring, you know This gorgeous looking fucking reddish beautiful frosty Indica in and we're like game and we're paying the same price as the max. All right Yeah, pretend to go I mean we called it ditch weed in Illinois Yeah, because it grew in ditches and it grew at the edges of fields and it grew while there was a wild population From World War two, you know all through the Midwest basically But yeah, I didn't I mean, you know now it's like now now I'd know it was up, but then we were so confused Yeah, it was how weed that could look that good and yeah, and like you'd smoke it and smoke You're taking bong hit after bong hit. Yeah, it feels a little funny and you're like, I don't feel high at all Yeah, you know and you smoke a joint of Mexican and you're like, oh it worked Dude, those guys must have been making it killing selling that it, you know 60 an ounce well the thing about the thing about my area was is that There was brown Mexican and there was green Mexican and anything better than that was kind bud that went for expensive. Yeah You know, I mean you like it did the quality only made the price go up But it was like even the shitty stuff was still will go by Mexican. Yeah That's what it was killed me like ours like it would have way less seeds, you know It was it was really beautiful looking, but it would it was always the same price as the Mexican It would always blow my mind that anyone was so dumb They'd sell this for the same price, but then you know every single time I get fucking skunked on it Yeah, and so there's there's an aspect to where it's like what's interesting is that? So and I don't know why this is necessarily, but it does seem like when with testing Low THC doesn't get you as high Yeah, but then it also seems like once there's enough THC It doesn't seem to matter and then when there's too much THC it seems to get in the way Yeah, because most of our like famous elite strains at least the ones that I personally like to smoke a bunch Yeah, they seem to come in between 18 and 25 mostly. Yeah You know make sense and all these like 30 plus or is there whatever and I don't even think like when when THC testing Started there was almost no 30 plus. Yeah, no because there wasn't any there wasn't any testing selection that allowed people to see Higher numbers. I'll select those. Yeah, and obviously without those numbers there. No one selected those they weren't as good Yeah I mean But how would you really tell a lot of the stuff that would get you the most high would be the you know 14 percenters to 18 percenters? Yeah, or like, you know a lot of it, you know the sour diesel and the chems and a lot of those things are like in The low to mid 20s. Yeah, you know really good chem dog can be as low as 17. It can be 17 to 22 percent Yeah, you know it knocks my head off. Yeah, but it's only it's not that high You know so you need a certain amount of it But like nobody had any idea what any TH percent? I mean when was THC percentage even a thing? Probably not until like oh like oh nine two thousand ten Yeah, so when collectives are getting popular. I remember even past that it took a long time before collectives started posting THC percentages on the regular. Yeah, I mean, I think I was smoking for 20 plus years before There was any verified ability to get weed tested for percentages that you could access. Yeah It just didn't exist like weed was good because it smelled good and it worked good And you when you wanted it. Yeah, I actually can remember pretty well when Mitch from the Adam Dunn show back when he was one of the main hosts on that show He brought on a bunch of the testing labs and it just started popping up And we were just beginning to understand what a THC standard was why there was no Consistency between two different labs all that stuff and I remember he brought them on iron labs Michigan SC labs and a few others and they ended up all slowly hanging up on the fucking Podcast and the calls because the questions got too fucking complicated and they didn't want to answer that shit So yeah, it was it was later. It definitely was later. Yeah, that's Yeah, so what that meant was that for a long time Almost all breeding selection was done based on your ability to Obs you know to look. Yeah, you know, how does it grow? How does he yield? What does it look like? You know, what does it smell like? What does it burn like? What does it smoke like? Yeah, and now I think part of the modern problem with science is you've got people that like Think that they can grow by numbers Yeah, and they're just looking at charts And they're looking for higher THC and they're looking for certain high terpenes and they're looking for this and that and The selection of like I mean this sounds really bro But like the selection of like six or seven friends smoking a bunch of joints and saying what they think Yeah, is often more effective than any kind of church so far Yeah, because at the end of the day, it's all about whether or not humans like to consume it The end of the day robots don't smoke weed. Fuck the man Yeah, well, it's like it's this weird thing too. We're like, I'm not a musician Matt is but there's an aspect in like musical Reproduction where like some level of distortion and some harmonics are better than others. Yeah, right? Mm-hmm. Oh Did he freeze you froze up froze up on a smile? Maybe he's getting a phone call. I don't know. Maybe I froze up who knows I guess we'll see Things put them put them put them not back not back yet Yeah, I also had oh he left so he must have got the phone call or booted or something Anyways, I have also had on here One of my favorites all reversal sprays colloidal silver. I get that non-stop All the time no matter how many times I post my spray someone which I'm in and be like colloidal silver It's just but colloidal silver no one asked about it. Nobody, you know, it's an assumption But yeah, that's one of them. Also, I remember aspirin For reversals was another favorite of mine that people would use aspirin for their reversals But I'm shocked people don't actually say that anymore and mostly I just share colloidal silver and that's that's what does it all That's what does it all I'm back. Oh, right. Where'd you go? I don't know did all of a sudden you have this weird look on your face And I realized you were frozen and then I was gone and it said basically thanks for playing Yeah, I got a message and I was gone. So You know, it didn't like me. It kicked me. Yeah, I was about to drop some secrets and the Illuminati stepped in and was like No, we're gonna change the subject. Okay. Never gonna work. Never gonna work Someone did talk about also in the comments that I thought was funny and a good one was harvest in the dark Hang your plants upside down so the THC flows to the top of the colas That is that is that is some bro science. It is strangely enough You definitely want to plant hang your plant upside down, but for different reasons. Yeah But yeah, there was there is some weird stuff that I don't know if it's true or not where People talk about harvesting in the nighttime Harvest having certain amounts of dark cycles because they want the resin to be in a certain state when they harvest Yeah You know the only only thing THC was supposedly Supposedly THC is strongest in the plant at in during the dark cycle. That was the old claim I don't know if that's true or not But I I don't know I've seen some scientific stuff that says yeah, actually, you know Harvesting in the dark is is when it is, you know, whatever that one. I don't know the answer to there's a lot of this stuff That's gonna get proven or disproven over time Yeah, you know and some of it like some of it like how good is weed or like what does the testing do for us? We're gonna have to interpret that how well we think it's working ourselves Yeah, because it's obviously like not just raw numbers When it's a consumable that produces an effect on humans. Yeah, like at the end of the day That's what's important. Yeah, that's all we care about right is like how that that effect of once we consume it However, you're consuming it, you know And that you can't I don't know that we understand numbers that lead to specifics Yeah, I don't know like we don't even know we don't know why what's interesting is you look at and that's one of the reasons why The THC numbers is so bunk is because I think there's like a big Like misunderstanding about THC percentage and people view it like it's alcohol. Yeah, we're like stronger is better It's yeah, it's more fucked up. Yeah, but for me it's more like You know since there's so many kinds of highs Like what's the math? What's the math? What's the testing that shows you this is gonna be a racy buds? Yeah, it's gonna make you want to crawl out of your skin. Yeah, this one's gonna make you uncomfortable This one's gonna make you alcohol kind of has the same effects all the way up depending on your tolerance Yeah, but weed does wildly different shit Yeah, to everyone depending on time of the day where you're smoking type of strain Everything everything changes Well, yeah, people you someone just said isn't science proof Science is proof, but like what's not proof is that THC by itself detonates how strong a strain is Yeah, this isn't a quantifiable science yet High experience is not quantifiable. So technically right now science can only take it so far I mean, it's it's a number and humans like numbers and they like playing with numbers and it's the one that everybody recognizes Yeah, but there's actually a pretty big movement to get away from THC numbers at all Yeah, it would be nice, but I think that would take so long. I mean, we're still we're still calling stuff like I Mean people are still saying, you know all fucking Sativa's do this all hybrids do this all indica's do that, you know, like we're still at that stage So so long time I'm gonna remember this one because this dude just said flushing is a myth And that's probably actually something cool to chat about but yeah one of the things that we haven't talked about there was a super bro myth is the is You know, you can tell indica versus sativa versus broad leaf versus thin leaf Yes, and when you see extreme broad leaf, that's how you know, it's more indica and when you see thin leaves That's how you know there's some sativa in there and that there's also a high Associated with each if you see those big broad leaves, you know, it's gonna make you go like relax You see those thin leash, you know, it's gonna make you go. Woo. You're excited Yeah, and so that was that's super strong and the whole the whole indica sativa thing is actually like It's actually outdated now Because it was like it was misclassified to begin with I just think it's so Used currently I don't see us. I don't see us like Changing it anytime soon No, unfortunately not as much as people are gonna push and try it's gonna take a long time to pick because according to like raw science right now What we would consider sativa they would call indica. Yes from India Yeah, and what we call indica They would call afghanica From afghanistan and pakistan region they would call it afghanica right and then What we would call what you know like and then what we would call ruderalis they call sativa I think you got that a little twisted up, but I know what you're saying I don't think I have it twisted up. I think a little bit twisted up. Where did I twist it up? Where's it twisted? Um, let's see. Uh, the sativa would be What what is it? It was the sativa was hemp indica was all afghans afghanica was its own thing That was short stout structured afghanis Um, the ruderalis one. I doesn't really change Yeah, something like that. We'd have to look it up because matt and I disagree so yeah, we know it's sweets and dreams It's probably the most important, but what we can what we can definitely say is that it changed classification wise yeah From 30 40 years ago to now Yeah Very very different, but that classification change has not gotten into our common speech Yes, and so we basically as weed people call like indica is anything that's like That's from afghanistan pakistan whatever region And sativas are various mostly equatorial things from around the globe. Yeah And that's and that's it and and but that's not how they You know and so like we were talking about it just the other day where Um, a lot of the highland afghans Um or kushes from hindu kush are a lot more thin leaf. Yeah You know where the like the bubba type stuff the more low Lying afghans from you know like low elevation or whatever. Uh, those are a lot more widely Yeah You know it's because what what is it has something to do with um the the uh the barometric pressure the the how the leaves transpire leaf transpiration and um There's that last one. Oh humidity. I believe that's the main factor related to how the leaves transpire Um, but there yes, so when you're when you're in a colder drier More uv environment like a like a mountain highland valley Yeah, you want to have thinner leaves because you don't want to transpire too much from your pores And you get all the light you need because you're higher up so the atmosphere is thinner. So you get more light Yeah, and you don't need as much you don't need as big of fan leaves to catch it You know where it's your if you're in a humid spot or a lowland spot you could have wider leaves because You know so but that that's there's some bro science there where We maybe haven't gotten all that figured out. Yeah, but there's definitely pure afghans That have some fairly thin leaves. Yeah And there was pure there's pure pakistanis or near pure pakistanis that are pure terpenaline Which is something you usually see from haystipes, you know Yeah, and they would say that and and so that used to be I mean that was the way like if you crossed an indigo to a sativa Back in the day You would look at all the wide types and be like all these lean afghan Yeah, and every thin type you'd be like, oh, that's an extreme sativa and you might even draw judge how extreme Based on how tall it was and how thin the leaves were And thinking you were a hundred percent right. Yeah When in reality, there's lanky indicates Yeah, I remember my first experience with that was a lebanese that I'd got from a collective and I thought Wow, it was called lebanese kush And um, it had very narrow leaves. It grew one big long cola, but it finished in seven weeks You know, but it was it was very red and it had a very uh narcotic effect at the same time And I was very confused how this this narrow leaf thing could possibly be a kush or you know, I mean like Yeah, uh considered a an indigo of any any sort Yeah, it's it's interesting. It's interesting too because you think about the environment of like um, you know, like they in uh Afghanistan has a way wider range of elevation than anywhere that people grow here All the way from basically sea level up to like, you know, seven eight thousand feet Yeah, you know, and they have the hindu kush mountain range is the second biggest mountain range next to the hemoleas Yeah, so that's seven eight thousand feet or six thousand feet or whatever. It's still mountain valleys Yeah, and there's still peaks that doesn't have anything on it that go way up above that And so obviously the environment there is going to be way different Yeah, someone's asking about asian-wide leaf varieties. I know there was a chinesis variety or A camera was called the I know ace carried a chinese union for a while. Um, I I haven't seen him But I I have heard that there are broadly chinese plants and that's supposedly where a lot of those came from so Perhaps Perhaps I haven't experienced them yet though myself Someone just asked to do potatoes grow underground They do No, no potato trees bro potato trees. They uh, they the the the potato that you eat does grow underground But that has a big above ground component Yeah, no, I pick mine off trees. I'm a kind of fucking potatoes you're eating But I mean technically, you know, uh all broadleaf Uh, most broadleaf is asian. Yes, because Uh, Afghanistan, pakistan that area of china all turk macistan all that that's all asia Yeah, that's the heart of asia really Yeah, I think they're referring to asia proper. Sure, you know, but I mean it's definitely on the asian continent Yeah, um someone asked about ABC the australian bastard cannabis uh front leaf looking stuff now it's classified Oddly enough, uh, and this is this is from csi not from my experience, but It is what most people would consider A long flowering You know, uh narrow leaf type plant as opposed to I mean it looks short and squat and you know real compact bushy But it actually is a long flowering, you know super tropinoline type plant So probably people most people would classify that as a tver or some type like that Yeah, but it um You know as science starts to study this it starts to study this stuff Um, we're gonna learn a lot more about like how the science impacts. What's important to us Yeah, like matt and I danced around that so and I and maybe i'm bad for bringing it up because we were going to do a whole show on it at some point But certainly the difference between not understanding genetics Uh and not understanding real science had a massive impact when certain companies started offering genetic Testing and promises Based on genetic testing. Yeah, you know And promising that they could reveal familial relationships And they could sort of unlock this like oral history Yes and provide like a factual web of interrelated and interconnectedness Yeah And they got people to pay them and send them tons of of dna for it. Yeah, they did and essentially And you know and it ends up being that Mostly mostly what everybody paid for and risked their genetics to send in was never on the table anyway Yeah, it was not uh It was totally inconsistent data as far as that goes Um, allegedly Like, you know for to use humans for instance. Yeah genetics can be like this is 100% these are my children Yeah, that's your grandpa That's your mom we can prove it And that's kind of what we were looking for With weed like this is your first cousin Yeah 100% 23 and me for cannabis, you know, that's your great grandpa. That's your great grandmother. That's your mom. Yeah, you know And we didn't understand enough of the science Um To really like that, you know, they came out and they made a bunch of claims and everybody sent them a bunch of genetics and a Bunch of money And at the end of the day, no one got what they wanted. Yeah, they did Yeah, you know Unfortunately we we as humans we tend to think about plants like humans and we know that we can do You know genetic relational data We can find someone based on their cousin now, you know, like people are being put in prison Based on this kind of data are tracked down old serial killers but Plants and especially cannabis are much more complex creatures with expressions based on environment things like this um It's a lot different and and there's they needed a lot more I guess what you'd say is they needed a longer read system than they had they had a short read system and it just wasn't Accurate enough to portray the data they were trying to say and and to me I think it goes back to the bro science of well, they had these these different categories like hemp like Blueberry, no, no blueberry was hemp. If I remember correctly that hemp they had like og kush They had these kush. Yeah, they had different. Yeah skunk But they didn't quite say what to find these things into these categories, but they were Organized by these categories and people still reference those as like well It shows mine is obviously more og kush and skunk then, you know, etc. Because they were that's why I said 23 and me and compared it to humans because when you talk genetics for plants like You know, we don't understand very much So it's like you try to relate it to the next thing that you understand some of exactly And we're like oh, I want to I want to see if chem 91 is You know, is it you know, is it sour diesels grandmother like we think is this related to this? Are they are the are the chems all sisters? Are they this are the like you want all that stuff? Yeah, you know and um, you know it uh, we didn't get it Yeah, you know and I don't know that and you'd almost probably have to take somebody who was an expert in that relative field Yes, who had our back And our interests at heart to tell us Whether or not the method the the methods that they're using And what they would need to give us the answers we're looking for What what it ended up taking was someone that Was super precise with their catalog that probably has more history and knowledge with their own catalog That is more resourceful and sourcing and more anal about sourcing to then Apply parent child grandchildren and then backwards test it and see if they were able to Meet up that way. Yeah. I mean, I didn't even bring up spending a lot of money to get any I didn't even bring up the fact that like you get multiple different cuts that come in all with the same name Yeah, I was just more talking about like the bro science of like we have all these stories of how things are related Yeah, right like for instance, you know like the Suppose like the old Betsy and and the bull rider from down there in your neck of the woods. They're supposedly sisters. Yeah, right Yes, we don't have proof Just stories just stories. Yeah, you know, so like we have all these stories and so Basically, it's like it's like we're gonna we're gonna have this like huge industry Where you don't have decades of science behind organizing all this shit the way you would any other big value crop Yeah, it's all coming out of the woodwork and it's a huge fucking mess And there's a bunch of liars and a bunch of hucksters and a bunch of deceitful ass fools Trying to lay claim to old seeds and it's like so Somebody gets took on some seven early seventies columbian gold Yeah pure from my uncle or whatever, right Yep, and then that that gets entered into something. So how do you even know what's real to start your basis point? Well, that's that's like when I first talked to philos and um, I talked to him I told him and I said you you need you need to consult with someone and much better than even myself Who has a better collection and understands cannabis provenance better than anyone else in the scene If you do not hire them and keep them on staff, there is no point in even doing this because you have to start with good base Genetics to be able to develop this system. You have to have a reliable source for skunk one a reliable source for Northern light spy a reliable source for haze. You have to have all that reliable source for SFEOG all the different og cuts And without all that reliable source Everything else is bullshit because you can't crowd source cannabis because most of the time the the most faint cut rises to the top Yeah, I mean certainly they would have a heart and they they wouldn't be able to tell anyway So you would have this thing where it would be like well these five cuts of kim d say this But then there's these other weird ones that got sent in and say that Yeah And how would how would someone know? They would have to hire someone and that's what they were all too lazy to do They were too cheap and too lazy and until a company actually does that they're going to get nowhere And every company that tries it is going to spin their fucking wheels because that's how cannabis is as a bro uh I don't know enough about Cannabis and plant genetics to know what the framework would be To even get what we're after Yeah, I have no clue as far as I don't know what that would be at all like i'm i'm not qualified You know what i'm saying to like judge I would have to we would have to find somebody that was into that That knew enough that wasn't going to bullshit us They could look at their methods and their this and their that and figure out You know because i would assume like with humans they figured out what the swedish gene pool was like by testing a bunch of Swedes Yeah, yeah, you know and they were able to go around the different human populations and they got enough data that they were able to see differences Yeah, but I don't know because i'm not a geneticist I think I think because the human genome was so thoroughly mapped and I don't believe the cannabis genome was thoroughly mapped yet Or maybe it's just too expensive to run these type of tests at the moment It could be that So, you know, there's an aspect where it's like we have all these oral tales about how things are related Yeah, and we have no way of discerning if they're actually true Uh and every time it's been promised so far it's been cheating Yeah Yeah, you know it's it's it's been very upsetting and disappointing all of the above and I think I think what most people don't know is it like um phyloz did Shut down their genetic testing. They're no longer taking in tests supposedly To do genetic testing Currently the database if i'm correct is still up So if anybody feels the need back it up because it may not always be up and uh some of these people who You know paid for these tests might want that data someday and what's risky about it is I we I was just having a uh a different convo um, but you know like Now that we're getting into science and now that we're getting into legal stuff A lot of the science behind it and a lot of this testing and a lot of this other stuff People are nervous because they're worried that it could be used to You know lock access to stuff Yeah, like you get the genetic code for something and you lay claim to it Yeah, you know or you use it or you know like phyloz had a whole like you know Backhand aspect of what they were trying to do. Yeah, and so a lot of science You know science isn't just sitting there waiting or it's you know science is done by humans Yeah, and those humans can have like a variety of goals Yeah So we're so like for weed nerds. You're all just trying to get some like raw science to like answer questions and figure out Stuff you want to know You know so one thing Bro science that's going on right now that matt can speak of extensively, okay is that Most reversal stuff is very bro Yes in the sense that there's not hard data on what to do And you know matt and Caleb and other friends that do that shit what really extensively um, there's certain strains where it's it's very likely that a certain amount of Of spray Yeah, is very effective and too much or too little is not yes, and it can vary by strain it can vary by Clone of strain it you could have two clones one inch from each other and give completely different reactions to the same Exact amount of spray it is It is the data is so incomplete and I think the most data is coming between you know guys like me and Caleb Or whoever else talking and putting together our notes. What have you seen? What was the what was the PPMs of the spray what kind of spray we're using what was the you know, what was the constituents of the spray? How often were you spraying was it a trigger? Did you know there's all kinds of things that go into it and and as of right now? Because controls are never going to be that good until you have a you know multi-million dollar facility Until that's going on and the trials are being done in places like that I think we're going to be keep spinning our wheels So yeah, so the majority of the of the seed market right now is feminized at least the american one And it's very bro science in that it's observational stuff past amongst friends Or maybe some tutorials that you can read on what to mix and what to use and so on and so forth Yeah, but there's a but there's obviously like and there's even stuff that you know Caleb ramata shared with me where it's like here's this plant doesn't matter which one But here's a plant and I've sprayed four different types of reversal mix on it Yeah, and this one is the only one that worked Yeah Right the other all the others failed But then you use that same spray on on some other strains and it doesn't work nearly as well as the ones that failed on the that plant Yeah So there's like a big there's probably in my mind. There's like a vast amount of knowledge to figure that out Yeah, the one thing that we were finding that's holding true is that Each different type of spray is as inconsistent as the other Meaning some that are let's say someone uses colloidal silver. Someone uses Silver without sulfate someone uses cobalt chloride Each one is going to be like The cobalt chloride stuff might be better with like tk, you know But it's not always going to be that consistent. It's not always going to be effective And each one each different type of spray is just as inconsistent as the next because there are so many different expressions It's really really fucking hard to explain and and You just can't quantify it yet. We cannot quantify it yet because For the most part with some rare exceptions in normal breeding You can have a few males And you can get an incredibly dense amount of pollination and seeds But you know off off of off of you know a project making regular seeds as a vacation Making regular seeds. You don't really need that many males Depending on how big it is Of getting a vigorous and thorough pollination with with a few simple tricks is quite Yeah, literally reversals are like going into the casino With a bunch of tips and ideas on how to beat the house And you're hoping that you come out ahead that time And every time the the best advice I give everyone is numbers The more numbers you have the more of a chance you have of being successful that round And if you can't afford to to lose Then I you know keep a lot of male plants clones of the Keep a lot of clones of the same plant reversing do several if you can't afford to uh miss So, yeah, I mean there's there's not there that that that whole area is ripe for a bunch of And the problem is is there's no there's no direct money In it right now for that kind of experimentation to go on to really open unlock that side of it So it's just interested breeders sharing knowledge And guessing Yeah And every breeder that's the thing you should realize about all these when you ever you buy femini seed Um, you know, I always talk about how like, you know breeding Is a lot of failure and mostly what I mean Is that it doesn't give you the results in the children that you were hoping for Yes all the time that's mostly what I mean, but what what's also true Is that there's a lot of failure in uh reversals It's it's expensive total failure You know very very light pollination You know all that and and so you know in addition to the failure of just normal breeding There's you know the failure to make seed Yeah And the main problem like for people that are wondering what the issue is when we say a failure what's going on almost every time When I did the the 13 000 plant reversal I saw three plants in 13 000 that didn't reverse at all They had no male parts that stayed all female and didn't take any Kind of hormonal treatment that's three and 13 000. That's that's so rare to even be able to observe that Most of the time what you'll see is a plant a female or a female plant you're reversing We'll start to form male parts after about three and a half four weeks But the parts will instead of like on most males will the ball balls will hang as they mature On on a female plant when you reverse it the balls cluster hard as if they were a female bud and Whatever happens in this action is where it doesn't allow the the uh male parts to mature It just doesn't allow them to mature because it's they're all clustered so hard and We don't know What exactly causes that clustering? There's a few tricks tips and tricks like where you can use Jabrella gas and spray it really lightly and hope that you know the the anthors and everything expand a little bit and cause a little bit Give it a little bit more room to mature But um, yeah, that's that's the main action most of the time you'll see balls Not all the times will the balls open and drop or mature Yeah, because there's like there's an open drop On a male and then all this pollen comes out, but if it's like if they're all stacked Every which way Tight, then they can't then they don't open and so sometimes there's pollen in there and our friends have had success Manually removing that pollen get tweezers you pull it out and you shake it out in a little bag one by one And that's that we consider that a failure if you have to do that You know right or or using using various kinds of mesh or screens or different things and trying to get the pollen Separated from the rest of the flower because you don't want to fail even more than you've already failed Exactly, you're trying to get at least even if it's not a sellable amount of seed You're like well, I at least want some that I can like run Yes, and test and give to my friends and see what's in it because I mean I want to see what's in it Yeah, you know, but there's a lot of manual pollination that goes on with With reversals simply because it's all bro science Yeah, and I mean I can speak to this more than I can but I mean when reversals first started happening When was the first time that like a tutorial got posted on One of the forums because it was pretty tightly held information for a minute Um, I can't remember the dude's name and I really wish I did because he deserves credit But the dude, um I know vet later posted it on from spice brothers posted it on overgrow And it was a basic tutorial on how to make spray that will be effective It was the 2.5 or 0.5 2.5. I think it was combo of silver nitrate and sodium thiosulfate Mixed it, you know 500 milliliters a piece you mix it in then 9 to 1 on On the the ratio dilution rate and that became where most people started And you know some people took it further from there and worked more On the ratio to to perfect it for certain types of strains and strains are more popular now And some people stuck with that and still use that to this day and and have effective success Yeah, I mean we we had we have some friends that have some funny stories that like fucked up the dilution ratios early on And sprayed like way too strong of a solution And like half killed the plant. Oh, yeah burned it up, but then it reversed really well Yeah, you know a bunch of leaves died looked all haggard and heinous and all that, you know So I mean there's uh, there's an aspect and then it's there's this thing too where Like the scientific method is like you do an experiment And then you get results and then other people are able to replicate that Over and over and over again and if enough people do that well now you've got some accepted Science, right? Yeah, the problem with s the problem with reversals is someone does something They write it all down. They document just exactly how they did it And then somebody else does that same thing with the same plants and they fail or it doesn't go very well Yeah, and so the replication part we haven't even gotten to that. This is how you do it Yeah, these are the these are the factors. These are the things you take into account to dial it in Yeah, it's hoping and guesswork Yeah, you know and Matt would even do a thing. He would tell me that sometimes He would reverse three or four different strains Yeah, I always have backups and backups and backups because he he wanted, you know He was interested in breeding with all of them. Yeah, and whichever one reversed the best Yeah, was going to be the males that was used and that that obliterated some failure Yeah, you know because you're trying to mitigate failure Yeah You know and that's and I don't know that that that that like observational bro science isn't changing anytime soon because I don't know when Like corporate paid for science is going to get to Looking at reversals Yeah doing a bunch of Non-profitable work to figure out how it works and to leave the info open source after that. Yeah, it's not very likely Yeah, and to not just sit on that proprietary style. Yeah, because they figured it out Yeah, you know, um, and so how so that that aspect of things So there's all this stuff where like real science could help us But how do we as grungy weed people access it? You know something going on right now Maybe we could talk about that too where it's like I mean, I wasn't worried about disease at all in the 90s Yeah, you know and now Viroids and dudding and pathogens Have become a massive issue. Yeah, and by the time we had testing for them They were everywhere Right now, right? Like I got people texting me all the time about viroids. Yeah, there's all kinds of posts It's an all kinds of you know, it's like it's going to get to a point probably in the legal market Where when you buy clones, they're going to have to have viroids free tests. Yeah, I mean, I just heard that some little uh, hothon brought a bunch of clones over to Barcelona and ruined a bunch of, um Uh, uh libraries serious libraries that were keeping old strains at european strains because uh, You know people people over there are trying to import our shitty gelato with look in hplv and that's what happens Yeah, I mean i'm to the point now. I buy one of those like hundred pack of razors Yeah, and if i'm taking cuttings or something it's a new it's a new razor every plant Yeah, I take a lot more precautions. I used to just use a razor until it got dull Yeah, take two three hundred cuttings with it and then it stopped cutting quite as well and it'd pop a new one Um, it just this goes back to what we were talking about the bro science someone just asked if reversals were normal Um back in the day when I would you know debate people about it I would point out really quickly that actually we we as humans have tried to breed out the intersex trait And the intersex trait is actually standard in cannabis So technically reversals are bringing it back to where it was and more natural Than what we have done by humans breeding intersex traits out of the plant So yeah, because I mean that was the big thing was like people. Oh, you're doing something so unnatural to the plant Yeah, you're ruining it. You're ruining it because it's unnatural and I would always point out, you know, actually Moving it back to more natural and intersects. We touched on that with like the the hermit You start with hermit seeds. You're ruining the line Yeah, but there was a lot of prejudice because people thought that they you were permanently altering the cannabis gene the genes By doing this cheating thing And I've mentioned it before on previous podcasts, but up until the late 80s early 90s Uh seedless weed really wasn't very popular So all weed was seeded Yeah, you know, so if a plant had a bunch of hermaphrodites Oh, well, there was a bunch of males anyway. Yeah You know all that tie all that this all that hash stuff. They didn't care as much if it got You know, like it there was just herms weren't that big of a deal a few seeds here and there Yeah, they were just gonna beat the fuck out of it. Anyway, they're gonna beat the fuck out of it Anyway, they're gonna turn it into hash And then all the smoking cultures the columbian the panamanian the jamaican and all that most of that came chock full of seeds The mexican. Yeah, so a few more seeds from herms. How's it any different? Yeah, it was it was when we started trying to grow seedless That we were like, hey, there's this built-in trait to cannabis that we don't like what the fuck is it doing here? Yeah, yeah Why is a breeder do you allow this to exist and and threaten my room? Of pure, you know, because it's like the most unnatural thing in the world is what we do to cannabis Yes, if we grow it for flour. Yeah, we're denying it what it wants to do I forgot this. I don't know if I showed you this is the l.a. Kush triangle Oh, yeah, it looks like it's got some triangle density Yeah, it's very strong, but it actually smells exactly like fucking sour Sorry, interesting. I just got sidetracked people So you do get regular males on reversals Somebody just asked that Technically, yes, but I don't think they test male Like if you were to sex test them, they would sex test female. They are just expressing male So I need to understand the difference between expressing And and genotype. I'll put it this way. Okay. So I did a like a 13,000 seed pop of CSI work, which you're familiar with, right? Yeah, and out of that we probably got out of that 13,000 seeds. We probably got about I don't know 80 to 100 Observational full males. Yes. Yeah, no female flowers Full pollen not hermaphrodite not hermaphrodites where they had both Yeah, but for them, but for the most part full balls full everything. Yeah You know And so, you know, that's obviously not that many out of out of that many seeds. Yeah But you know, we're we're playing a little dr. Frankenstein with with plants where it's like they just want to You know, they're not they're Their breeding isn't to provide us with what we want Yeah, they're trying to make seed for the next generation and do their thing And and someone said no, they would not test male. They would test female. That's that's Observationally what we've seen so far anyways. Yeah, I mean we know that so, you know a certain percentage And then, you know, it's not so much the to us. It's not so much the method you use It's more that does the plant have it in its genes or not? Yeah Because one of the reasons why for instance, you guys don't see a bunch of diesel s ones on the market Is because diesel is famously hard to reverse Yes, there's some things with audits. There's some things that herm But almost never will successfully reverse Yeah And there's some things that reverse like a champ Yeah, you know, and there's some things that reliably reverse Nine times out of 10 and then one of those times it won't drop any pollen and you'll fucking smash your balls in a drawer Just ask That 13,000 seed hunt was in uh, southern california Yeah, I mean we did we did a 13,000 Plant reversal and made a few million seeds, but like hunting 13,000 seeds isn't that common. No, it's it's It's a luxury for someone to be able to do It was one of the I was I was helping on one of the bigger farms in southern california at the time Um, but there is there is an explosion now of 80 acre 40 acre 25 acres, you know this that everything else those 13,000 Plants they took up about seven acres But there's also the factor And I you know, I saw this with uh the the seed pop at the at the hemp place and everywhere else Testing is a bitch When you do 13,000 plants because someone's got a smoke at all if you're gonna do a phenohunt It was too many Yeah, it was too many It wasn't it wasn't there was a lot of non-ideal things about that particular project for sure Uh, but people get excited and money does what money wants to do, you know And so I mean even even even growing out three or four hundred plants Yeah, and trying to objectively test the smoke Yeah It's it's uh, it's rough Yeah, very, you know at some point you're you're gonna you're gonna start missing things Yeah, or you know as as uh as kaleb likes to say just look for the runtiest shittiest Most nastiest production plant you've ever seen and let your smokers try that one and that'll be the clear top five Yeah, yeah, the one that you're hoping doesn't taste and smell and smoke like it actually does Yeah, and then all the beastly production plants. They'll be like meh Okay, you know someone just brought in something good. So we'll jump on it Uh, did you guys cover bro science of male selection and I don't we haven't I don't think no not yet not at all We haven't talked there's a bunch of bro science with male selection Yes, the number one thing that I am asked as a seed maker is What do you look for in your males bro? Like and that's the assumption that I only look for certain traits in males And if they have those traits then I use them Which is a thousand percent how I don't do things Um, I usually start with a an idea Um an end goal like I want a plant that's going to be let's say strawberry And have pretty dense structure and kind of shorten squat and from there I will think of different lines where I can achieve that And then select a male that has the traits that I want and same with the female And that's how each project is done and achieved So different different male for different female for different purposes You know some bro science that I would classify that I don't know has been scientifically proven Is if it showed flowers in vets you chuck it Yeah You know sometimes people would even torture like this is some bro science where you'd be like I'm going to torture this male I'm going to keep a cutting of it. I'm going to grow it way too big in a solo cup I'm going to let it drought three or four times. I'm going to beat it up I'm going to do weird shit to it. Is it stable? Yeah, yeah, yeah the the the testing males aspect was was a big popular thing people used to say on the forums I'm going to I'm going to stress test my fucking males I'm going to stress test these females and see what we can do to them And to me I always I always had an opposite point of view on it And I'd be like I don't want people to grow my plants like shit So if they grow them like shit, of course, they're gonna So what's the point of that, you know, it's stress testing males Well, if you throw any male in a fucking tiny little cup, it's gonna fucking autoflower 99 of the time You know, there's an aspect where the plant is desperate To do what it's supposed to do which is make seed and produce provide the next generation So you beat the shit out of it and uh, you know Some of them might panic and be like no matter what I'm going to do what I'm supposed to do Yeah Uh, there is actually it's interesting One of the things we should we should and this is something that we might have a friend on at some point I don't know but uh, he goes by the handle on ig of 707 seed bank Yeah, we call him Shahbud But he was one of the guys he would reverse males And smoke them Yes Because he wanted to see what the resin production and what the perps were And what the smoke was like as a female plant Yeah, I would do the same thing But I wouldn't smoke them because there usually wasn't enough smokable content to make it worth it But I get an idea for for the terpene production of the male And that way when when I ran the progeny from said male, I would be able to identify Oh, this is coming from the male and that's why you know Yeah, so that was just another way of trying to get information because I think matt calls it the shotgun method Right where a lot of times you don't really know you have some observational things Is it tall is it short that it flower early that it not does its flower custers look look sexy Yeah, and then you use that one and then you got to grow out seeds and be like did this pass the traits that I want Yeah And you know neville and other guys that like grew up in the era of all male female breeding Um, you know finding the male was the biggest bitch Yeah, finding the one that would consistently pass the traits that you want To the progeny that was the whole game And it's still the biggest bitch in the game I think even though reversals are technically harder because of the failure rate I think that breeding wise it's much easier to select a female from observable traits than it is a male Knowing what observable traits he'll pass I mean we could use neville as another example just because it's super famous But you know when he went to jail in 1990 one of his crew found this cut in uh nl5 haze and skunk haze Yeah, and it was like a sea of terpenaline and cat piss and weird shit and they found this one amazing plant and then When he when he started working at sensey They started breeding And he started trying to find different skunk haze males that he would cross to his favorite nl5 haze females to get that line Yeah, and that's what jack harrier came from Yeah, but he still wasn't happy with it. So they worked on it for two or three more years with shanti And that's what the mango haze and the neville's haze and the and the uh Super silver haze came from yeah, and the whole time the the moms never changed The whole time consuming process was was choosing four or five males and crossing it separately to each Female and then growing out the progeny and seeing if the progeny was worth the shit and gave it what it wanted If I remember correctly, he didn't even like breeding with female hazes He thought that the magic to haze was in the males if I remember correctly Yeah, he says that and i'm an admitted big neville fan Yeah, but even I will say that uh Two things one is that uh the males are what he ended up with Yeah, so Yeah, yeah, yeah So it's good to say well this haze see this was the clear winner This is the one we should have used and to only be using males One of the things that's interesting is when you're growing out some 18 or 20 or 22 weeks sativa thing, right? um Collecting pollen and then pollinating a room of much more skunk indica females Yeah, there's a lot easier timing Then timing pollen drop to use a female You know so to mature those 22 week long fucking flowering seeds. Yeah, they're mature those 22 week long flowering seeds contained within the female um and uh what it sounds like to me Is that he had some amazing females and he just lost them and didn't realize what he had until they were fucked Yeah, perhaps, you know, there's a I haven't seen a lot of pictures of of original haze Of of plants where people are like this is the fucking one of original haze. This is the you know There's a lady named uh hazy lady and you might be able to find her picture still on mr. Nice She was one of the only people I saw they consistently grew depositronics haze 19 For thong hill that consistently grew it beautifully and I could say it was a beautiful haze grow That rarely rarely if ever Did I see beautiful haze females? Uh So yeah, and I mean there's an aspect there where it's like what it sounds like he even you know Uh after four or five years of having haze Sounds like neville ended up with literally one living plant That he could work with in the future Yeah Which was haze seed Yeah, and that makes sense for old seeds, you know, you know and uh, and but it sounds like if he knew what he had He probably would have kept all of them alive. Yeah and been more careful I would buy so by the time he realized how special it was He'd fucked it off to some yeah Somebody wants to talk about the 56 day headband You can if you want I can talk about the 56 day So there's some aspects of it that I don't like but the the story is as as generally as I can as I can say is that It was called something else in southern california And it was from it was it was from within that, uh, that, uh Cush crew down in southern california Yeah in some aspect And that cush cut and those cushes it was worth a lot of money and there was a lot of shit going around with it And something happened with that cut where there was some violence right And so somebody fled So Cal and came to the bay Uh with that cut and they didn't want to call it what it actually was Yeah, okay So they were trying to figure out because they wanted to grow it and sell it So they were trying to figure out like what can we do so we can grow and sell this cut? But it's not going to create any more heat that's going to follow us from down there Because what happened down there was helis helisketch, right? And so they decided You know, uh, they decided to rename it headband Yeah You know, uh, and We I don't know for sure what it was called before Yeah You know, but it's the nicest cush type plant that I know like the of actual cush You know or what we would consider a cush type like the sfv Or the or anything like that, you know, like it's the most potent to me Yeah And sometime in the you know, oh 405 or something like that right around there Um, it's slipped out in the bay Yeah, and that's how I got it and that's how some other people that have it have it and we called the 56 day Uh, there's a huge debate about when to take it Yeah, some people like to take it long like 10 11 weeks Uh, but a lot of people like to take it at eight or nine weeks and they feel it's like the most potent then Weird and it gives you the highest high and like the the edginess and the raciness and the all that different types of stuff Um, so it's got some mystery, you know, there's some name. I mean obviously like I'm there's there's the different names I know, um, I think duke would call it the rest stop cush because that's where he got it from Uh, there's the 56 there's some people called the murder cut and stuff like that, you know, some people tried to um, some people try to to push it as uh You know, it's the original new york city headband, which we now know is totally false Yeah, um, but you know to me like when it comes down to it I would classify it as far as things I hold it's in the top three or four potency wise Yeah, yeah, it's really really good weed and I usually pull it. I usually pull it between eight and nine weeks Yeah 60 days 59 days 63 days Something along something along that that level, you know, it probably has other names other places There's a few people out there that might know the the the first name You know, yeah, um, but it is it's a really pure og cut That's the one that I tend to use in all the the if I have anything marked headband That's 99 of the time what I'm using. Yeah, because his homie had it for a long time Yeah, I mean now now we know that, you know, the original headband is the mama sour Um, and uh, was a very diesel type fluffy, you know Yeah, foxtail-y type cut Yeah, so these couple cuts that are floating around that are that are called headband Um, and uh, you know, they're not they're most most things that are called headband are really great weed You have really great og's Yeah, but there's a few that are really really really great og kush types Yeah, and they're not related to new york, which doesn't You know, it might fuck with some people's stories, but it doesn't change how nice the cut is itself Yeah, it just happens to be Um, yeah, it's it's different this dude's saying it's different. It's not my la cut It's not lupus cut. It's not the 707 It's not even a headband Yeah, it was renamed headband because whatever name it had before was sketch Yeah, so now it's just called headband. We called the 56 Mostly as an identifier Yeah Because there's not me only isn't identified eventually you have to you have to figure out some tag That allows uh, that allows you to identify stuff Yeah, you know, I mean before the internet We just called uh chem dog dog Yeah, we didn't need it to be scum fa cut or chem 91 or that like that's all internet names Yeah, so that people can communicate about it And that's the same thing with the 56. It's a gorgeous og kush type plant It's incredibly potent super flavorful. It's really nice Um, it's probably the best kush. I know of You know and it has a mysterious origin Um for someone's question. Is there somewhere you can review this if you've missed the live feed? Yes Um on the riot seeds the account i'm on not riot seed cover riot seeds You can go there's a little tab area where there's a little play button You click that and you can see all the videos that we've uploaded Some people are asking if we're going to have the the audio podcast back up I'm going to do my best to get That all probably needs some help with someone going and extracting the audio Portions of all of these shows for the past. I don't know. I think six episodes I need to get that So if someone's really good with audio and you guys can extract that that would help a ton I'd really like to get the audio podcast back up and going We got to learn some stuff on the fly to keep this shit going, but we're going to do our best to manage it so yeah Yeah, and I mean we've been trying to do these lives every friday and be consistent I know a bunch of people like to listen to him on a podcast. We're sorry That it got delayed, you know, we got a bunch of them up And then at all the sudden it it came down people are like describe the flavoring of the 56 I wouldn't say that the 56 Has the best kush flavor But it is that kind of kush It doesn't have a bunch of lemon like some of the ones. It's it's pretty it's got earthy, but it's got that like It's like kushy type like mouth coat type thing, you know, but it's got rare potency Yeah, I mean when I'm not kidding when I say it's like it's I mean there's some people If someone told me it was in their top one or two favorite cuts as far as what it does view Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. It's it's it's in the top four or five things that I have It's super Po it's really nice and it does this even though it's even though it's very kushy. It's got this weird anxiety thing You know Some people won't smoke it because it gives them massive anxiety and yeah, it gives it gives me hella anxiety It's one of the people that there's like there's friends of mine their wives and stuff like that Matt others like it gives it like tweaks them out and makes them uncomfortable. It's unhappy high Yeah You know doesn't do that for me. It just gets me hella baked But for some people it triggers them and it's not good And that's how potent it is But you always say after you wake up from a nap after smoking it that your asshole hurts and I I don't know what's going on there. It's super weird. I mean that's the company you keep Yeah Inland so Cal what can you say? What can you say dude? What can you say? But it's one of those it's it's it's one of my favorite cuts It's a really nice. It's a really nice plant You know it's it's it can be a finicky og. I mean there's aspects where I uh There is no difference between chem 91 and skunk va. They're the same thing. They're just different monikers for the same cut I have a way james loud asked me that you got the chem 91 or you got the skunk va You know, there's more than one cut that floats around that is true So, you know what, you know, there's that but but all those names originate from one cut Yeah, you know And uh, yeah, and then you know, so there's an aspect too where it's like getting back to that Real science could tell us one day what the 56 How closely it's related to other things? Yeah, it could take the oral history of the and some of that mystery You know and uh, and it could clear that up Um, there is no answer to which one is better d or 91 because it's personal preference You know, I would say both of them are in my all-time favorites Um, but you know, uh, some people would say the opposite. Yeah, some people don't like them you know um But you know, there's there's an aspect where and someone asked this tk the original kush I think tk is likely one of the original hybrids Yeah, the question is is we don't know how many We don't know what it is Or exactly what it came from very well Yeah, and we think that there might have been more than one And we think that most kush are bag seeder s ones from those originals But we don't know exactly how many different originals there were Yeah, we don't We know there's a lot of bag seeds of bag seeds and sisters of sisters You know and things of that nature and so it's hard and so that's another thing that that real science could explain to us Yeah, perhaps one day You know, um, I actually think to be honest, this might be controversial people might get pissed at me, but I think that Uh, that the the the kush that josh d and and matt and those guys brought to la Uh is is likely lost Yeah, and I don't mean like lost like nobody has it I mean like the chain of custody got fucked up enough And now it's it's really hard to prove that this specific one is guaranteed it and this person has had it And you know, it's like it's it might be out there as sfv Yeah, it might be out. There is 56 day headband It might be out. There is this that the ghost of today is not the ghost of yesterday There's multiple sfv cuts that flow it out there Oh, yeah, there's so many renames and so much stuff happened in la and the original people lost it and got it back and stuff that Like I think it might still exist, but under different monikers Well, I mean and then we had um, certain companies like cali connection They would make certain strain names like their seed lines would be sfv og So now a bunch of people are growing their seed lines and then they have cuts of things called sfv og Now there's 3000 sfv og cuts all claiming to be the original, you know, we did that with larry He did it with tahoe. He did it with several So, yeah, the provenance on those are just damn near impossible now to go back And there's two or three sfvs that are popularly traded amongst people and they're different Yeah, you know But there's an aspect where it's like the tk at least you have really you have some pretty good chain of custody Yeah, and that cornbread ricky Sent it but even before he moved to california sent it to some people in california Yeah, and then he brought it with him and it doesn't appear to have gotten lost by the original crew And there's still a good chain of custody on that one You know the josh cut or you know the the matt bubba cut or whatever you want to call it like That one got a little lost in the wave of the og movement and so Cal Yeah, and so people can say The 92 is that cut Or the kush cut is that cut the kush cut is that cut the the ghost the real ghost is that cut The sfv that I have is that cut And then you put those four cuts in the room and you grow them all out next to each other and they're not the same week Yeah, so some of those people or or They're the same cut Brought to completely different environments Completely, you know found a whole different way of expressing and now move back into the same environment They all express totally differently until they're acclimated to that environment again So I mean that there was so much you la was like the perfect micro cut like to blow up in la and to be worth that much money Yeah, and in a culture that fronts so hard We went from like one cut showing up from these florida guys Yeah to like clubs full of only og within 15 years Yeah, and several dozen og cuts at least Yeah, so how did that happen? You know is is the flow rider that I have is that a sister to the stuff that josh brought out Is that a sister to tk? Is it the same as the original josh? Is it i've grown it next to the real tk. It's not that one Is it a bag see you know what i'm saying like it you just don't know But I mean but it goes back to the expression thing like it maybe it is the same exact cut And they're just expressing totally differently because they've been moved to two different environments And the hard part is that that's why I do this thing. I don't know if I I have a hard time with acclimation Yeah, I do I like to grow things to see what they are side by side in the same room same environment same food same everything Uh-huh, you know, I'm not sure that taking it to hawaii for four years does some kind of genetic change I don't think it does a genetic change, but I think expression is expression and I think that's That's that's for real. It's just I'm not saying I'm not just agreeing with people I'm just saying that like I this is another aspect where we just don't know Yeah, I mean like like for the the first thing that really taught me this was cheese This is a clone that I had run out many times and every time I'd run it out. It smelled like funky foot cheese Get it back from a great source now. I've got berry And then the next time I grow it. I've got one clone berry one clone fruit next to them They look different and it's like What is this just these little micro expressions and and you know with csi that was one of the ones that really You pointed out the environmental expression is everything and you just can't make any kind of conclusions based on Growing if you if you've gotten the same clone supposedly from two different sources You can't make any conclusions about it Um them being the same kind of knot because of that environmental So that's what I was saying about wanting to grow the same plant in the same room or the same greeny Or the same environment with the same food at the same time Yeah, I think I think that makes sense But over you know a period of a year or two I think it would take for it to reactivate to the same so that makes it really hard It makes it fucking way hard and it makes it even more confusing on trying to make any kind of claim on whether something is or isn't something You know and you know, but there are there are when you grow them side by side It's not like you have to only wait on the flower Yeah, you can be like, whoa, these leaves are a different color Yeah, the serrations are looking slight are looking different. Yeah, like there's other informational things that you can do You know and so I do believe like I actually I actually got um I actually got a a chem 91 cut right recently simply because Uh, I wanted to grow it right next to mine Yeah, because they've been grown and held and kept separately for a long time Yeah, but they're the same thing They're they're they're vaging and I'm growing them next to each other. I haven't blown them out yet But I'm curious is like I can't I know for sure. They're the exact same cut And I know who's held it and how long in the whole bit But they've been in completely different environments for a really long time The other thing I'd wonder too is like as one of them been in a place where they use harsh chemicals for a long time over You know many years and stuff like that. Yeah, you know all that stuff environment You know like I even wonder sometimes like, you know, sometimes you get you get a weak plant Or you have an accident or something and you have to save a plant Or you get a plant that's in bad health and you have to nurse it back for a while because it went through some hell or something Um, you know, how does that change? Can you get it back perfectly healthy? Are there are there the same cuts floating out there of the same plant that are just going to be younger and healthier? Because they didn't get the tar beat out of them It's hard to say You know, I know I know I've had Ogkb and then I've had ogkb from a source that kept it super fucking healthy with mad elites cut Where I'd never seen it express grow as fast or or have the turps that it did but it was definitely the same cut And I'm not even talking about perfect health Just so people know like I'm not talking about dudding or hp, you know or anything like that I'm just talking about two things that we know are the same that go their own path for a long time Yeah, which one, you know, it's the same cut, but are they all of equal health? Yeah Do they stack the same do they smell the same? Do they look the same was their drip because when it comes to me for drift people say, oh genetic drift is real I don't know that it's real I don't think it is but I don't know that it's not real Well, I mean, we know what epigenetics is but I don't think we fully understand epigenetics and how they apply to cannabis very well But I think that's what most people refer to I mean, I'll say for sure that my la my headband cut It's definitely gotten more sensitive inside over the years Yeah, it used, you know 15 years ago. The thing was an indoor beast Yeah But sometimes there's a weird thing where I almost wonder I almost had this thought of like Well, what if I went back to single-ended hordilexes? Yeah, right it just turned into a beast again And it's that we updated the lights and it doesn't like the new lights Yeah You know and you're like, oh, I got old back in the day. I grew it and it looked like this Yeah, and then you change a bunch of shit And you're like, oh, it doesn't look like that anymore Can't be any of the changes I made Yeah That would be interesting to know though. So yeah, but then you're like some little guy or whatever, you know So it's like, where do you where do you get the opposite? Where do you get to do these different environmental experiments? Yeah, and to see if things are the same cut or the same this or like maybe they don't like the same light Yeah, you know I did this thing I did this experiment where I grew some head stash under only ceramic metal halides Yeah, right I mentioned the ship before but the dog shit, which I normally take 12 plus weeks Yeah was done in 10 And I cut the chem 91 down at 85 days and it still had white hairs all over the top I believe it. Yeah, and like was the longest I've ever taken it I normally take it 68 or 70 or something like that, but it was like a full two weeks Longer than I've ever taken it and it still didn't look done Yeah, and that was just spectrum I was all that was the only thing that was different. Yeah, yeah Same room same food same this same hose watering everything same organic inputs all that shit Did some stuff not purple too? I didn't actually have any purple stuff in in that in that experiment I had What I tried to do is I grew some stuff I knew really well like the headband and the chem D And five or six different things and I grew them under the lights. I was growing the rest of the shit Yeah, and then I grew those same strains in the same room But like in a corner where there was only ceramic metal halides I had set up Yeah, and so the only difference that they were getting was the spectrum of light That's funny, you know came out wave some things didn't come out very different than each other And then a few strains were like way fucking different like I remember telling Caleb that I pulled the the fucking dog shit at 10 weeks And he laughed at me So I started sending him pics And being like don't you think it's done? Yeah, you know Am I gonna lose you again? I don't know if we're delayed You looked weird for a second. Are you there testing one two three? Yeah, I'm here. Can you hear me? Yeah, he's fucked. We're fucked. Am I fucked now? Or is he fucked? I don't know if it's me or you You're here. I don't know how to tell I can hear you. You can hear me. I think it's me Yeah, it might be you. I don't know I think it's me But yeah, there's so I can think of all these different experiments and Matt's thinking of different experiments too Right. Yeah, but enacting all of those to eliminate variables is a time-consuming money bitch It's just the hole you're pouring shit into to try to learn more about a plant Almost all of my my experiments that I ran over the years were all based around weather Or reversals and weather Something to do with purples and plants One of the funny thing was I became obsessed with and convinced that metal metal Hell I must be the way to to get the purples to express the best and much later on I learned that That was probably the most opposite and stupid Bro science theory I could have had because it it actually reduces the amount of purples You'll see and that that is conclusive That's inclusive. So, you know, we have and I don't think like I've you know, I've been posting on my stories the last few days A friend did some uh grew out some of my sour You know, yeah, and I wanted people to see it and it started some convos or whatever Um, and I don't really I think the diesels are such a close family That like I don't really think that you can compare them unless you grow them In the same room at the same time Yeah, or the same greenhouse or the same outdoor or the same whatever I don't think like you were talking earlier. I don't think you can take two totally different environments and different regiments Yeah, and then put that in the jar and be like, is this the same weed? Yeah, no You know what gives the most perp? genetics Yeah, everything else is just trying to coax the genetics to do what you want. Yeah, but some genetics just give it And it doesn't matter You know, yep, it doesn't matter But yeah, even just figuring out all this stuff some of this stuff is some of this stuff is uh, you know, um It's it's very observational You know getting back to phylos Phylos thought every cut of fucking sour diesel they sent in was the exact same cut Yeah NOG and og and at the time I was growing out a bunch of these diesel cuts next to mine and next to the headbands and stuff to try to figure shit out Yeah, and they were obviously different related But you know, some had light green leaves some had dark green leaves some had different serrations Some had different maturity rates staffed different. Yeah all you all smells all kinds of stuff Yeah, you know all kinds of stuff and so Um, you know, dude's asking is that the sour I grew up with? I don't know dude I don't know. It would be nice if it somehow ended up with me and I saved it, you know That would be cool. I can say that I haven't lost it in over two decades Yeah, you know That's what I can say about it. You know time will tell I suppose I mean, I even just got Sour from Caleb Yeah, just because I want to grow it next to mine And see just do the side by side I'm 99% sure his is the same one that me and Pip and everyone else. I'll use an archive Yeah, the chocolate of that one. Yeah the one I call choco mine's not that one Yeah, I know that's that's so weird, you know, but it's like and and so I don't know You know, I uh, I thought for the longest time. I helpfully called it sour diesel Yeah, and people would be like, well, what is it? I'm like, it's the sour diesel Yeah, what name? I don't know I'm no idea and I and I thought when I gathered up all those sours I would be able to figure it out Yeah, you know, I'm like, okay. I got ecsd. I got nycd. I got joe b. I got amish I got choco. I got you know, I got this I got this I got this and it's none of those No You know, um, it's none of those so and then none of them were my l at my headband cut either Yeah, I was figuring at least some the one thing that it did seem it did seem like the choco and ecsd were the same plan Yeah, yeah, at least the versions of them that I got I was the first person to call it choco and it was only because I saw choco's picture and I was like, hey, that's fucking That which one which which sours you running the one that looks like chocos. That's the one That's the one and it but it was it was always labeled ecsd always and what's funny is that it wasn't until like if it wasn't for matt and pit and some of our other close friends Um, I probably wouldn't have done that experiment Yeah, because they kept bugging me about what sour I had and I was like, I don't have to sour It's the sour. It's the one. I don't know. I didn't even know there was so many because I got it so early Um, I just never got another one because I had it So why would I trade for sour diesel when I have a nice sour diesel? and I didn't realize that it was um You know that there was so many Did you know it was the fucking amherst? Did you did you try that one that amherst? I would say that the amherst And the upstate new york and the real there's like four or five names Then I don't that matt can probably verify that I don't I don't think they existed Five or ten years ago as a name. There's a lot of there's a ton of new names. There's a different amount of there's a certain amount of new names Um, you know that have come out and there was a decent amount of names in the forum era Yeah, you know, and I don't know like I just lived in meadow. I got the sour in 2000 or so We've had it a couple a couple decades now or whatever. I know we didn't lose it And we thought that was sour diesel I remember there was an era where almost everyone's sour diesel was soma's new york city diesel For a long time in the community 99% of the shit people were turning up with as sour was nycd grapefruit Hunter someone just said yeah hunter mountain bra I mean, I don't even know like, you know, I'm not even dissing hunter mountain or this or that or whatever I'm just saying that they weren't names in common usage amongst traded cuts Yeah, you know, um, and uh, you know and so Uh, you know and there it seems like there was multiple phenos of sour even to begin with Yeah You know and then it became the yeah So trying to trying to declare the one the original the only sour is pretty redundant now that we know. I mean we're pretty Pretty convinced that there were at least two or three sours going around. Yeah, and two or three diesels. I should say I can say, uh, I can say, um, you know that, uh When I got it and that we've held it since and honestly, you know back then in the early 2000s or whatever like I didn't ask for all that lineage Yeah, I didn't ask of where it came from and how it got there and all that different stuff and like trying to figure that out 15 20 years later is a mess Yeah, I just got it then, you know, and I have this thing where it's like if I like weed I'll try to hold on to the weed Yeah Whether or not it becomes popular and what happens to most people is they get rid of anything that's not popular And then they try to get it back and it's not the same shit Yeah, and that's why everyone's like, where's the real granddaddy perps? Where's the real this? Where's the real Now it's where's the real sour? Yeah, um, someone's asking about sour. We have the the sour across the blue bonnet that's pretty good for a Regular sour seed line not a lot of berry comes through archives. Got some amazing sour crosses. CSI has got amazing sour crosses Um At top dogs got amazing sour stuff. So yeah, that's now that it's gained in popularity There's a bunch more people that are coming out of the woodwork With labeled sours and they're all old and they're all amazing and they're all this and that and I think skunk VA probably has some too Um, but yeah, that's who I'd recommend because there are so many people coming out of the woodwork You don't know who to trust. There's a bunch There's a bunch right there people are asking about the spy rock sour spy rock sour isn't sour spy rocks are It's something that's sold through some uh nurseries out on the west coast here It's not a bad cut, but it's it's some it's some sour cut cross the kush Yeah, because they were going for like sour stretchiness, but like more density You know and all that and so it's some hybrid. It's not an it's not a real sour cut Someone's asking about skunk text diesel. Um, I gave him the day record diesel But his what he calls the original diesel came from someone else For our last or probably the last time we talked about it. It came from someone else So it's not the day record diesel that he's referring to. Yeah, I mean it came from his buddy It seems like and it yeah, and the dude got diesel, you know, uh back on the east coast Back when uh diesel was slang for fire weed Yeah, so we're not even sure how it's related or whatever else because he just got it is I mean the only reason why he calls it original diesel is the guy that gave it to him is because that's the diesel he got first Yeah, which is that I passed him the day record as original diesel So when I saw him post that and say you got it from that dude, I was like, what the fuck But it turned out. Yes. He did get a different cut for someone else. Yeah, he did get a different cut And that's the name game, you know, and it's like that is yeah, you know It's like I mean at some of these things you see people making all kinds of claims about sour diesel I try to stay away from all that because I got my cut in 2000 or so and uh Which is long as time ago now, but it's still you know, it's still years after it was it was popped Yeah, and I got it on the west coast Yeah, I'm not even old enough to have been around for when sour was first getting popular and being from the west coast It's really uh Like it's kind of like me, you know, I don't know Me trying to say that I would know what a real sour was or the original sour was this kind of crazy in that sense I'll be perfectly honest I can I compare all sour diesels to the sour diesel cut I have And not because I I'm like all like all mine's the best or whatever, but mostly because that's my comparison point Yeah, that's the sour that I had forever. That's what I consider to be sour. So it's like is it the I don't know, you know It's hard to say People are asking about the original diesel in here So archive his original diesel is the shroomy diesel if I remember correctly And the one that we have as original diesel is just the day record. It was because Is shroomy diesel the amish? Yes, yeah, that's the same thing shroomy diesel the amish. Yeah, the amish is a really nice cut and original I ran the amish and then there's day record original And day record original is my favorite. That's that's it's one of the most potent Cuts that I have and potent breeders that I have Yeah, you know, so all I can say is that most people don't keep things Unless it's popular and it's easy to sell Yeah I hold on to things that I like You know, um, so I held on to that sour even when it was really unpopular Yeah, and then people are like, how did the good sour go away? It's because nobody wanted to hold most good cuts go away Because people aren't willing to hold them when they're not popular Yeah, and then everyone wants them back as soon as there's money to be made and there's rep to be had yep Simple as that over and over and over again Yeah, you know, so then so how does that all work? It's like they only want it you could I could spread out my diesel and if No, and if in five years nobody was into sour a tiny percentage of heads would keep it Yeah, because that's what happened. That's what happened to urkel That's what happened to green crack. It's what happened to everything. Yeah shits a lot of shits gone that I mean there is another cut the other day Someone hit me up and asked for forum and I was like, what do you mean you want a forum? What do you mean forum's missing? He's like, I can't find forum and I'm like, we can't find forum. That's That's a horror cut. But yeah, that's funny. I see people and I'm not making if anyone's listening and this is you Don't take offense, but I was like, man. I want that real sour diesel from like back in 2010 Yeah You know and you think about it and it's like that's not that long ago Yeah, no It turns out, uh, you know, um, we don't know what you cut skunk tech sour is Identifying sours is really hard You know, it seems like it seems like at the very least what you can say by people that are trying my sour right now Is that it's not very well circulated Yeah, and it's not one of the common named cuts Yeah You know, okay, my ring my ring is going to keep going off non-stop So we can probably try to end it soon. This is driving me nuts. Oh my god. Well, we are an hour and 15 minutes in Yeah, all right. Yeah, we're doing good. We're doing all right. So yeah, I mean we can do we tried to talk a little Bro science and stuff like that and ended up on cuts But that's the hardest part for me as a collector is that Nobody wants to fucking help me back shit up when shit's unpopular And then everybody wants it when they can make some money off it And then it goes back to nobody wants to help you back it up because it's unpopular Rinse repeat And we're about to enter the most abundant time of the shit And now you're off from it again I don't know. I don't know if people can hear me or whatever Um, but uh, matt and I seem to be on different different wavelengths again Yeah, slightly different slightly different wavelengths Can you hear me anything? Yeah, I can hear you. Okay. There we go. You just looked delayed Yeah, um, all right Yes, is there anything else you want to cover before we close it up? No, we can close it up this evening I mean, we're all good. We every we kept everybody entertained for an hour and 50 minutes. That's probably pretty good But um, you know, yeah, there's a there's a thing where we are going to try to get the podcasts up on podcast formats so more people can listen and hear them You know, everybody, you know, you can listen to this you can watch the live feed It won't have the comments But you can always go back and listen to the live feed on the riot seeds instagram under the video section All this you can replay. I I always leave these ones up with me and not so always up I have one of them that I did when I covered when matt wasn't able to make it But I don't have a bunch of them but on my page. I do have one of them Oh, that's good to know So if anybody is really good at audio extraction and stuff like that We need someone to help with that and we'll see if we can get the audio ones back up Please go check out the patreon. We go shoot the shit all the time on the discord That's where I do most of our dirty work is on the discord and talk and nerd out and Felaide each other other than that. I'm gonna write seed code.com We have a bunch of stuff up. I have a bunch of new packs to add in It's the sites down right now, but it should be back up very soon Yeah, I think that's it. That's it. So everyone have a great night. Thanks for listening I'll see you next week