 Boom, what's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host Alan Sokian. We are still at IndieBio's demo day number eight We are now going to be speaking with Alex Lewis. Hello. Hey, thanks so much for coming. Yeah, absolutely my pleasure really appreciate CEO of Electroactive technologies. That's right. Yeah, what was what was the talk on the main? Yeah, we just you know all the companies IndieBio just gave a seven-minute pitch and for us We're you know developing this modular system to convert food waste into renewable hydrogen Which can power zero emission vehicles, you know going into the future here And so we're yeah developing this kind of local urban solutions food waste produced in the city can stay in the city to make fuel That can be used to power or zero emission Transportation in the city. So look yeah looking to make everything more sustainable and find a better use of food waste Which is us, you know 40% of food is wasted. It's a crazy amount And so we know we're trying to find a higher value use of that which we think can you know turn into zero emission fuels You know at an economical Price yeah, when I saw what you guys are doing out there it totally spoke to me as the future of cities and The future of sustainable ecosystems in general. Yeah, so okay, so let's walk through this So we have something like our compost first of all the statistic is crazy 40% Yeah, I mean it's crazy. Yeah, there's up and down the supply chain You know it starts at the farm happens in transport happens at the restaurant at businesses and then in the home It's just across the board, you know 40% is lost or you know close to 40% You know it depends on the country, but it's it's it's a it's a high amount. Yeah. Yeah in supermarkets Yeah, although although anyone that has food food or selling food. It's you know, it's happening a non-supply chain That's why it's so high. Yeah, and it's yeah in the homes when the in the fridge when yeah That's the biggest biggest chunk is in the home. Yeah in the restaurants Interesting, okay, and then so okay, so then that's getting okay So first of all we gotta live in cities where we're composting more like the fact that we still some cities only have like garbage Yep, don't even have recycling. Yep, and then you gotta add the last one Yeah, and then we got to do things like the biodegradable farmers to not even have some of the issues Yes stuff. Yeah as well. Okay, and then we take compost and then you have this What do you call the modular? What do you call that? Yeah, it's I guess we refer to as a stack because we're stacking together our reactors to make a larger stack And so we have this on our system. It's called the EH2 Gen Which is you know a kind of a combination of our names here But but it's a this modular system that can really you know give it some flexibility about where it can be placed And at what scale because a lot of the solutions typically need this huge plant That has to be located a long distance away But our modular system can then be you know plugged into cities at different spots and plop down wherever it's needed So it gives a lot more flexibility to go where the problem is Okay, and so this modular system right now is is small and compact version of it But eventually you see it as yeah, so right away a small prototype about this size But what we're looking at is more of like a shipping container size unit Which would have thousands of our cells in there and that could be dropped down and scaled You know up or down from that point to to meet the needs how much waste there is how much hydrogen that could be used Let's get into the technicality. So okay, so we take this 40% of food waste All right, and then what are we doing with the compost into the module? Yeah, and so right now like in California Luckily they're you know ahead of the curve and are and already have that third collection and most of it goes to composting But it has to be a lot of times it's still trucked out 200 miles from where it's produced And so getting it to compost and doing that is good But it's you know, it's not it's it's a starting point and so for us and it's also really inefficient because Only a fraction of what's in that food waste ends up being in the compost and so our process being located You know closer to the city can take that food waste suck out a lot of the liquid and soluble compounds that we use to make hydrogen And then the smaller amount that's left over can be sent on to composting Which is a smaller amount less trips out there and is also just a better input for composting So it can really improve the entire chain while getting a lot more value out of it And then what are we doing with because we've seen now Yeah, the mass of going in getting tours of it's actually really enlightening the garbage recycling and composting facilities when you're there And then like for example you guys take a blend the compost and then you feed it Yeah, and we are focusing on the food waste aspect of it But our goal is to get to the municipal stage where there's you know, there's paper or other compostable things in there Okay And so it'll be pre-processed and that a lot of that stuff will just come through and come out because we're taking the liquid fraction out of that And so when we do that pre-processing step this other stuff that's destined for composting We'll kind of come through and not go into our system We'll take the liquid part out that comes from the food waste and that's what gets feds into our system And we have microbes that grow in there that are able to degrade that waste and extract energy out of that Which we use to make hydrogen Okay, so let's so keep going with this process. So we have how do we feed blended compost into but so this is like a soil That has microbes in it. Yeah Well, so that's we that's where we kind of originally get some of the microbes is these all the microbes We have are pretty much naturally occurring in soil But we've taken it out and kind of directed them towards the function We want to have happen and so they'll be break these microbes exist in soil to break down You know leaves and things that happen Okay, we've taken those and really concentrated them and enhance their functions in our reactor So they can just get waste break it down and we can take the energy from it Okay, so as the microbes the concentration of microbes is breaking down this blend of waste They're producing electricity. Yeah, it sounds strange And but there's a special class of microbes that again we haven't genetically engineered They're out there in the soil where they typically work to reduce iron and other metals that are in soil Because when you start breaking things down just naturally cycles There has to be a place for you to dump the electrons that come off in these reactions So nothing too technical, but there's these microbes that instead of producing a gas or breathing or passing electrons to air to make co2 They can just pass the electrons directly to a metal or or carbon And so we grow the microbes on an electrode where they can just pass the electrons directly And so they work with the other microbes breaking down the food waste and we just accept the electrons as they're produced And so the microbes grow on that collector and we just take the electrons as they're produced and use them to make hydrogen on the other side of the reactor And so there's a lot happening in this little compact reactor. Whoa, okay The microbes are right on the electric. Yeah, so they're passing right as they're going through the process with the food waste Yeah passing the electron through the lecture and then you guys how do you then in this closed system turn that into? Yeah, so our reactor is actually two chambers. There's two sides of the reactor You can think of it as a sandwich there's two sides and separated by some cheese Which for us is a membrane and so you have a membrane separating the two sides Microbes are going on one side eating the waste making all those electrons and they're passed to the other side Which were just an electrochemical reaction happens with a metal catalyst And so the electrons that come off and protons that also come off go to their side and you make hydrogen Okay in the electrochemical yeah, so it pairs biology and electrochemistry to make the hydrogen And it's just all in the small little stack sweet Okay, and then and then okay So with the and the electrochemical reaction leaves you with a hydrogen. Yeah pure pure source fire hydrogen Yeah, and that's the benefit for our system where because we have these two sides of the reactor So the hydrogen being produced is kind of separated because the microbes still they do produce co2 and other gases Okay, but so it's good that our the hydrogen reaction is happening separate from that And so that that way all those gases other things that are happening on the microbial side is separated from the reaction That makes hydrogen so we have a pure reaction of hydrogen being made there Which you know is really beneficial for downstream processing and purification where yes, you know It's a much simpler thing to do. Yeah, and then there's even potentially a way to capture this Yeah, yeah, and we're working on making that also very pure stream where yeah That this renewable source of co2 could could be used another application could end up being another revenue stream for us Well, so so blended compost from our like offices and yeah homes and these commercial sites and all these places farms all these places can then be used to Feed microbes will eat on that produce electricity that we can then use as hydrogen power to then power The electricity in our homes or in our cars or all different. Yeah in transport We see is where the initial benefits would be Because batteries in electric cars are great But they have some limitations and there needs to be you know It's you know some additional options out there where batteries in electric vehicles are great But you have the low low range can't drive the same distance as normal cars and it's a longer refueling process So fuel cell cars you have the same experience of gassing and diesel cars Just the same amount of range rapid refueling, but it's an electric vehicle still just runs on hydrogen And so those benefits are really even more so for the heavy-duty vehicles big trucks and buses If you you know the transit fleets here in San Francisco have fuel cell buses in there in their mix And so that's where we see you know the initial markets happening in those heavy-duty areas But hydrogen can also be used in a fuel cell to make electricity for homes in other areas But with cost electricity being pretty low from solar and wind You know electricity will probably look normal electricity probably still be the main trend where hydrogen comes into play on that And actually is because Well feed food waste is our feedstock. There's also you know a strong amount that's coming from electricity as well So the microbes make electrons. We also take external electrons to make hydrogen It's not just the electrons from food waste we take in additional electricity input from from like solar or wind And so as solar and wind continue to grow It's it's produced at times when people don't use it and it goes to waste And so you need to be able to store store that electricity and that's what we can do with ours It gets stored as hydrogen and it can be and can sit there until you need it and can be turned back into electricity To use in cities or can go into transport And so it's it's a really versatile way to store and carry energy And it's you know does so in a zero emission you know fashion and so it's really you know It's really you know changing the landscape of energy. Okay, so you would also potentially on these commercial sites or residential sites or farm sites that you would have Solar and wind power Potentially as well on these sites and then when what happens sometimes is when you're when your capacity is full on the energy storage You need to then convert that electricity into hydrogen fuel cells and that's where you guys could help Yeah, yeah, and it's more at the city scale as well. We're looking at California specifically They I mean they curtailed a crazy amount of electricity last year where you know That could power more than the entire hydrogen market where this is much electricity is going to waste because they're it's produced At times and people don't use it and right now battery storage is just too expensive And it can only be you know for a two-hour period when you use the electricity to make hydrogen It can sit there for days and months and then be used when needed. So there's like seasonal storage So so in wind or solar light with the battery that that electrical charges is only good It's only good for a short amount of time where you need it And if it's you once you charge the battery it starts dissipating over time and then once you start using it It's gone within two hours, and so it's a really same with electric cars It's kind of a dynamic thing where it's you know short-term low-range, which is really good for rapid response But as as you know renewable electricity becomes like 50% of the mix You know instead of five the amount of storage you need you know over the long term is high and only hydrogen can really Provide that kind of storage where it can sit and it doesn't go anywhere It doesn't you don't lose the energy and it can be turned back in so there's all these multi-pronged benefits from hydrogen Interesting yeah that when the hydrogen works really well as a store over time Yeah, that's and you can use it in transport for the vehicles or you can use it in fuel cell to turn it back into electricity for a building And so yeah it has transport you it can also be used You know down the line instead of natural gas hydrogen can be used in the home for you know Heating and cooking as a gas because it is a gas And so it can replace natural gas long-term in in those type of applications as well So it really has this ability to decarbonize the entire you know spectrum of the economy so there's a lot of a lot of a lot of momentum behind hydrogen It's still a lot of work to go to you know to bring it to the masses and then you see the modular unit that you're putting together You're seeing it both Iterating over time to make it more and more efficient the processes But also then in terms of size you see it potentially on each individual like home or business or do you see one in a big community? Yeah, we see we see it more at the community level, but you know long term as you know as the cost of everything starts to come down and things change It could certainly potentially be in the home But right now you know community level or at this at the stage where you know these huge apartment complexes that are here at that kind of level The amount of waste in all the homes within that big complex and building would be enough You know at an area where you have a small radius of you know 10 restaurants And you know a couple block radius at that kind of you know network scale is what we're looking at To be at the community level and have these Positions to to take the waste in a small radius to avoid you know right now You know as I mentioned the food waste getting trucked out 200 miles You're also trucking in fuel from hundreds of miles keeping it all in this kind of network You know reduces cost, but it also makes the whole system more robust where you know There's not one thing that gets knocked out or goes if there's a problem Disrupts the entire thing if you have multiple sites all around it kind of creates a better You know smart city as we talked about at the beginning just a smart sustainable city Yeah, and then just another thought is as an input is compost like blended compost I mean if we're really smart city, we won't have compost, right? We would yeah Yeah, so then what would be like in all yeah, and so there's you know And as a public benefit corporation where you know we support you know Just food waste not going to waste and stuff that's edible getting to people in need to be able to use that and But unfortunately, there's such a substantial amount that can't be safely recovered that there's Really no pathway to have no no food surplus at any point, so we'll always have a feedstock on that end But there's other other things that can go into it as well We're you know working with testing animal manure and other things that you know could be an input That's anything organic can really go in there You know the big the big the other things that change is how much you have to pre-process it if you took a tree Which is organic it will require a lot more pre-processing to get it to a liquid So starting with food waste is you know is the you know is a big problem on its own And is the best starting point for us. You can also take wastewater which has a lot of organics in there as well So it's really any organic feed could come in there food wases You know is a big problem and starting point for us that we want to address Yeah, this these I'm super excited to see what other combinations of like modular units for sustainability and in Future cities that we're gonna move towards these are very exciting Yeah, yeah, there's there's a lot of cool things being done on that realm that we really want to partner up and Prepare with you know, it's just being a part of that solution for how you all these you know all the all the ways That sees are becoming smarter and integrating things that we always want to be a part of that solution and and contribute to that So it's it's really exciting the things that are happening in that area would be cool to see kids Also growing up with seeing these and playing with them. Yeah, and that's one of the things We're looking at actually for for pilots is some of these elementary schools and high schools are actually Pretty self-motivated to implement their own composting programs Even though they're not required to yet and they're doing that and so we're looking at you know Doing pilots there where we can do these demonstration units where the small amount of hydrogen produced at that scale could be used Instructionally to talk about fuel cells and and get you know the kid next generation kids excited about you know engineering in these clean tech areas and So yeah, it would be great to get these deployed at schools and and and yeah start start the exposure early to really Because that's where it requires is you know people who are just used to that kind of lifestyle and just you know They'll grow up and think wait people didn't use the compost like why why is that why would that ever happen? And so that's what we're kind of going towards and schools are you know, they're you're a great place to start doing things Yeah, that's that's a huge question is that where we're in 50 years Are we gonna look and say I can't believe we were doing those archaic That's a really good way to realize what we need to be doing today. Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, thanks for coming on the show. Yeah, I appreciate it was great chat with you Yeah, yeah, I love to check in again, you know later on and see where we're at Yeah, exactly. We'd love doing updates. Yeah, absolutely I would love for everyone to check out the links in the bio below Electroactive technologies again, you could find a link in the bio below go and support them check them out I'll check out Indie bio as well. Check out that link in the bio below Have more conversations to your friends families co-workers people online on social media about things like we discussed in this episode and Support the artists entrepreneurs the organizations around the world do you believe in support simulation our links are below as well Go and build the future everyone manifest your dreams into the world. We love you very much. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you soon. Peace