 About, Narees, he did register or not. Oh, you can share actually your link with him. About, Narees, he did register or not. Julian, I guess you may need to. Oh, you can share actually your link with him. About, Narees, he did register or not. Julian, I guess you may need to. Oh, you can share actually your link with him. About, Narees, he did register or not. Julian, I guess you may need to. Oh, you can share actually your link with him. It looks like on a loop. I think you can also run it. You will have to stop the YouTube. Yeah, I stopped it. It was playing on my machine. That was the problem. So I saw the delay, right? So I've live streamed it, but it was also showing on my computer. So you've got the live stream then the view. It should be on YouTube now. I'm going to check for my phone. Can you see whether it's live streaming? Yeah, we can see it. I can get, can one of you quickly paste this link on LinkedIn? All right, you want me to, yeah, you just do that. That's copying streaming link. I'm going to copy this to all of you. So you are in case you're speaking. I was saying. I've sent you all the link of the YouTube streaming. So you can send that out. I guess you sent only to me. Correct this time. Yeah. So do you want to record at the same time? Or do we need to now? I guess if it is live streamed, it's already recorded. So we can skip. Julian, I have a question for you on the chat. We'll wait for 10 30. Oh, it's still LinkedIn post. Yeah. The answer is affirmative. Okay. This is a community event. Yep. So we'll see how many turned up. We've got over 200 registrations, but that doesn't necessarily convert. And I think a lot of people watch this on YouTube. They're watching it now on YouTube. We get started probably in a couple of moments. We'll give some time for people to join in. We'll give it a couple of more minutes. Sure. And do you all see the presentation? Yeah, we can see the slides. It's good. Yeah. It's visible. Okay. We'll probably get started. Okay. We'll get started. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to hyper ledger India chapters, blockchain stories 2021 event. And we are excited to be here in the second week of our annual blockchain stories event where it's all about learning blockchain technology, understanding how it helps us solve some of the tough challenges out there. Right. And today we have actually interesting set of speakers. We, we, we have speakers ranging talking about all the way from tokenizations to supply chain to trade finance. Right. So we will learn a lot and also we'll learn about a couple of use cases and about our mentorship project. So we are all excited to be here and we'll get started. And to get started, we have our first speaker. Who is very well known within the community space? I believe you all know Vikram who, who is one of her very, I would say very active members from hyper ledger India chapter who is also now making has really created an impact across different hyper ledger working groups and special interest groups. So Vikram is a solution architect from for blockchain at HCL. And along with Vikram, we have Shivendra who leads blockchain practice and digital analytics services for HCL. So without much delay, I'll now hand it over to Vikram and Shivendra to take it all from here. Yes. Thanks, Aaron. Thanks a lot. I'm glad to be part of this community. Let me start by, you know, change my screen. Please let me know what's going on. Hi, everyone. Hey, Vikram, am I audible? Yes, you are. Okay, all right. Okay. All right, guys. So good morning, everyone. Good morning, good evening, wherever you are situated. My name is Shivendra. So today we'll be talking about, you know, tokenizing the liquid assets and we'll be taking you through our, you know, both proposition. But before we jump into tokenization and all, right. So just to set the context, we know cryptos are gaining a lot of traction, right. So you have seen the price of Bitcoin, you have seen the price of Ethereum, people are going to go about, you know, tokens and, you know, the cryptocurrencies these days. As we write, as we've written in this presentation, there are more than 6,500 cryptocurrencies, but there might be a couple of hundreds more, which might get added, which might have been added in the last week or maybe 10 days. So this is the pace. This is the scale which we are talking about. Obviously, there are a lot of challenges, a lot of regulations which has to come in. But the point is, regardless of the volatility, even if you invest in cryptos, I was also invested in cryptos you might have seen in the last couple of days, it has been really volatile market, right, specifically in the Bitcoin and the Ethereum space. The point here is, regardless of the volatility, people are going in the direction of crypto. Even if they understand, they do not understand. So basically the point is from a retail investor perspective or from a corporate investor perspective, people are looking at cryptos, right, to answer a huge market, right. So moving on to the next one. But if you really see apart from cryptos, there is another market which probably retail investors do not know, which is called NFT, right, non-fungible tokens or, you know, these are non-crypto transactions as such in a way that, you know, people sell these assets, for example, CryptoPunk 998, which got sold for 532 million. Now, people debate this as well because this was sold for 532 million, but it was basically a flash loan or maybe which we call a wash trade sort of a transaction in which the loan what the person purchased CryptoPunk then the loan was paid within a matter of few seconds or in a minute, right. So these kind of things are also happening in a non-crypto world where, you know, it is beyond Bitcoins and Ethereum, but the trades are happening, for example, for CryptoPunk or let's say, my people's every day, these transactions are happening on Ethereum or other cryptocurrencies. So this is a hugely wide market with a lot of different transactions, a lot of different things which we have which we are seeing, for example, in DeFi and distributed finance, we are seeing, you know, these flash loans and all which were not, which people were not aware like 5, 6 years ago, right, these things are coming up. Yes, moving on to the next one. But if you imagine the real art, for example, Salvatore Mundi Bali on order of the winch, it got sold for 450 million and a JPEG of CryptoPunk 998 got sold for more than that, more than this value, right. So you can imagine where the market is heading towards, right. So we are talking more in the digital terms, we are talking more in the NFT terms these days rather than, you know, real sale transactions, which we are used to seeing, for example, this art from Leonardo, right. Yeah, moving on to the next one. So in the non-digitized world and that is where our key message is that there are transactions which are happening in the non-digitized world. For example, in real estate, there are a lot of things which are happening in terms of tokenizing real estate assets. For example, this red swan situated in US, it's a startup which have tokenized around 2.2 billion of real estate assets. Now the idea was that you should allow, you know, accredited investors also to invest into real estate, not only just your, you know, high net worth individuals who can invest beyond 10, 20 million, right. So you want to allow people who can invest, let's say, half a million, 500K, 400K also in the real estate assets because previously they were facing challenges of, you know, getting good real estate properties within their budget, right. So that is where, you know, tokenization in the real estate is really picking up Ionix is doing it. There was a German startup which did the same thing. You know, they tokenized assets for around 2.8 billion or so. So this is where the real play is in the real world, apart from NFTs, apart from cryptos, right. So moving on to the next one. So we all know what are they called, right. These are, these are fungible or non-fungible tokens. So Bitcoins, Ethereum of the world, these are all fungible tokens because one unit of Bitcoin is exactly same as another unit of Bitcoin. Fungible tokens, obviously CryptoPunk 998 might be different than, might hold a different value that 995 was CryptoPunk, right. So NFTs hold different values, right. So moving on to the next one, we'll just, you know, understand what are the tokenization benefits and then Vikram will take you through the Oval demo. Yeah, Oval to Vikram. Yes, thanks. So basically, you know, when we talk about tokenization, you know, there are so many things that, you know, I can, you know, probably talk about, for example, tokenization of identities, tokenization of assets. So when we actually talk about, you know, tokenization, we are actually talking about rights management, fractional ownership, liquidity, right. These are the things that we're talking about. So once you have converted any asset into a token, it becomes easier to manage rights on that, right. To manage the ownership of that asset. When we talk about any asset, you know, we have to buy it in full, right. You can't really, you know, go someplace and say, I want half a bike or maybe I want to own half a Ferrari. Not really possible. So that is where tokenization comes into picture. You can own any asset and have fractional ownership of it. That is the power of tokenization. When we talk about liquidity, so if we, if I went ahead and you know, said that, okay, I wanted to buy a lipstick building. I can't really do that. I don't have that much money, but collectively, maybe, you know, all of us, you know, if we all, you know, collaborate together, maybe we could do that. So that is where liquidity comes into the picture that if you can have fractional ownership, then that means any seller or any owner can actually reach out to multiple people, many people, right, to the masses, to give them part of the ownership and make it, make that asset more liquid. So it becomes easier to trade, right. If I own such a building, maybe, and I wanted to, you know, get some cash out, it's really hard if I, you know, if there was no fractional ownership. Because liquidity would be very low. I don't know how many, you know, such investors or, you know, high net worth individuals I could find would be entrusted in buying that and have that cash handy, right. So that is where it comes into the picture. Then also, when you talk about tokenization, but once you have tokenized it, you put it on blockchain. That means you have now a single source of growth that is reliable and you don't need middlemen. Where there is blockchain, there is transparency. And finally, you know, when we say tokenization, we don't always mean that, you know, one is to one relationship. We are not saying if there is one building, it has to be a token or we are not saying that if you have a coin that is valued, it has to be a token. You can have a collection of it as a token, collection of art as a token, right. You can do all that with tokenization. So tokenization holds money meaning, you know, it could be a fungible token, it could be a non-fungible token, it could be a collection of assets as a token or it could be one asset per token. So that is what tokenization is. And once you have this, once you have tokenized your asset, there are so many benefits that you get out of it because once you have tokenized it, that token will have its own characteristics. By characteristics, I mean, you know, it will have its own metadata. It is going to be, you know, treated as an active object. That means it could have rights and actions associated with it, right. So that is where, you know, this solution of all comes into picture. So what we are essentially talking about here is when I talk about any tokenization solution, what is it that I'm looking at? A token, you should be able to define a token, you should be able to create a token, you should be able to issue a token to someone, right. You should be able to trade that token. Once you have traded it, you may want to redeem that token and then one top you also want governance. So I guess, you know, when you talk about any token, these are the few things that you look at, right. So when we say define, define would be defining its characteristics in terms of metadata that should be associated with it. The constraints that should be associated with it, the, you know, the rules that should be associated with it. Similarly, you know, when you want to create, there should be some constraints as well. So that is what we are looking at, you know, when we do tokenization. So tokenization, obviously, we want a simplified and fast tokenization journey, right. So when you tokenize something, you know, we are moving from centralized systems to decentralized systems. So it could be built on, you know, various platforms, you know, Hyperledger Fabric now supports tokenization. So, you know, people have started creating new use cases on Hyperledger Fabric with, you know, the ERC-20 tokens, ERC-721 tokens and the hybrid tokens, right. So that we have started. So you can do that on our Ricardo platform, right. So there are various platforms that you can choose but end the goal is you want tokenization, you want simplified tokenization. And what if I told you that when you want to do that, you don't necessarily need to write a smart contract every time. What if there is a common smart contract which can take care of all the needs, all the different type of tokens that you wanted to create, be it in real estate, be it in bonds, be it a artwork or any collectible, right. So that is where, you know, this, you know, solution, like Oval came into play, right. So this solution will allow, is a no-code platform where you can go and create any token, where you can define a token, where you can, you know, play with the token, trade that token, right. So I'll show you a quick demo of this solution so that, you know, you can relate to it a bit more, okay. So now when we talk about tokenization, there has to be several parties, right. So let's say there is a guy in London called Rob. And what Rob wants to do is Rob wants to create a token. So Rob needs to define a token, right. So if you wanted to define a token, you would, you know, go and, you know, provide it what is the metadata, what are the rules associated. I'll give you, you know, some idea about it, right. So when you talk about any token, a token must have a symbol. A token must define the fractional part of it. A token must define who can issue a token. Who should be able to see, you know, what a token is all about, right. Who should be able to see that, you know, who holds what quantity of tokens. You should be able to define, you know, the metadata, custom metadata, if it's a building, a building must have a location. A building must be registered with someone. That's how you prove your ownership of that building, right. A building must have a market value. It must have certain features associated with it. It must have a name, you know, a building must have a name, right. Any place you live, there is an address to it, right. And then there should be some rules. Rules should be that, you know, there must be a location. That when we are talking about features, you should at least have three features defined. So that is what you can do with this solution. So if I wanted to, let's suppose, create a token out of it for this, what I'll do is I'll go, I'll create a token. I'll say, you know, building. So let's say it is, you know, India chapter building. So I'll name that token India C. I'll say, you know, maybe up to two fractional digits. I'll say the logging guy is Rob. Observer, let's make Bob the observer. You know, the name sounds good, Bob the observer. Okay. I want to share, you know, Bob should be able to see who holds what quantity of it, right. The location, the location, let's say, the location is Delhi, registration authority is, you know, national registration authority, market value of that building is 5 million. The features, it is a commercial building. It is a high rise building, right. It has its own auditorium. So you can define all that. What is the name of that building? India chapter building. Now that you have defined it, save it. And now the record has been committed to legend. And now that ledger could be anywhere. So it could be your, you know, hyper ledger fabric ledger, which is shared with everyone. It could be your Corda ledger, which is, you know, unique to every participant, right. So there are so many flavors of blockchain, right. It could be an Ethereum ledger. Completely everything is public, right. And now once you have done that, you may want to, you know, issue tokens against it. So let's try that. So India chapter building. I want to issue tokens. I want to issue 4,000 quantity. I want to issue to Alice. And now Alice doesn't need to be a node. Alice could be a user, you know, piggy backing on a node. It could. So let's say Alice user one is that user. So you are issuing tokens to that user. So you issued those tokens. Now maybe you wanted to issue, you know, 5,000 quantity to John. Right. So now that you have issued 5,000 tokens against a 5 million building, that means you only need 1,000 tokens. $1,000 to, you know, buy one token. And even there is a fractional ownership, right. Point two, that means if I had $10 in my pocket, I could go and own a part of this building. So you see, you know, the liquidity that tokenization brings, right. Now, when I said liquidity, maybe, you know, as Alice, what I want to do is I want to, you know, part from, you know, from the ownership of my tokens. I have, you know, I own 4,000 tokens, right. But I don't want that much tokens. Maybe, you know, what I want is I want some liquidity. Right. So I want to, you know, maybe sell 1,000 tokens worth $1 million. And I want to sell it to John. You trade. So it is as simple as that. So it wouldn't have been, you know, visible without tokenization. This is the, you know, the power of tokenization. So now if you wanted to see who all has that, right. So that is very common requirement when you, you know, deal in such things that you need someone, you know, some authority to have complete visual operators. Or you may not, right. So let's suppose you did. So in that case, you know, it would be very beneficial if someone can have a look and see who owns what quantity of tokens Alice has 3,000 and John has 2,000. Right. So that is where, you know, tokenization comes into picture. This is how, you know, tokenization solved my liquidity issue, the fractional ownership issue. And similarly, you know, you can use tokenization for identity solution as well. So there are, you know, N number of ways this can be achieved. Right. So this is, you know, a tokenization solution that I showed. We are open for questions now. Hello. Certain questions in the chat. It is around how do we determine NFT value and all of that. Yes. So well, yeah, yeah. And another question is how is the security of token ownership maintained? Okay. So when we talk about, you know, that value of an NFT, so value of an NFT, obviously, you know, when we trade and share the market determines the price. Right. When you trade in any collectible, again, it's the market. And it is the history that, you know, provenance of that art or maybe, you know, how much a similar art was sold that defines the market price. Similarly, you know, you talk about any NFT, it is the buyer who is determining the price. Same goes for Bitcoin. Right. Bitcoin is the best example, whether it is fungible or non fungible. It is always the market that defines it. If you know, because we know that, you know, there are only a limited number of Bitcoin. And if more and more people want to have, you know, take part into it, want to buy that ownership, the price is always going to go up. So similarly, you know, value of NFT is also determined by the market, by the one who is, you know, planning to buy. So I guess that answers it right. How is security of token ownership maintained? Yes. So that is where, you know, how we say that blockchain comes into picture. Let's suppose you are doing it using Hyperledger Fabric. So what it essentially means is when you do it over there, you have a shared ledger. And if you have a large network, that means you get better immutability. If you have immutability, if you have shared ledger. So ownership of token is quite easy to maintain. And if you're talking about any private blockchain, for example, you know, in that case, you know, someone owns that, you know, there is a notary concept in the part, right? So notary knows all the list of un-consumed transactions. And then you have your own nodes, you have your vault and your ownership records are stored over there. So whether you use a public blockchain as Ethereum, you know, permissioned blockchain as, you know, Hyperledger Fabric or completely private blockchain, like Articorda, your ownership is maintained. How can you use tokenization for identity? Okay. So let's assume that you have a, you know, record, and maybe it's a shared ledger. If you put someone's identity over it, so it remains over there and it remains forever. It can never be removed, right? So, but with this, you get into legal challenges. Let's suppose, you know, you are in Europe, so you can, so there is, you know, PII concept, right? So you can't really put, you know, private data, even if you do, if someone asks for it, you have to remove it. So that means you can't really have the exact identity written over it. And whatever is written over it, anyone can see. So that is where tokenization of identity comes into picture, where you, instead of putting that identity itself, you put the tokenized information. So you tokenize that identity, create a token out of it, put, you have that identity information with you, but only put token over there. So that is how you achieve tokenization of identity. A tokenization of Preset is akin to listing of firms in stock. Who will maintain Obol? Yes, in that case, so no one will maintain Obol when we say blockchain, right? It means that, you know, everyone has, it's a decentralized solution, right? We have moved away from centralized solutions. No one will maintain. Obviously you would need to put it once. You may need a consortium to, you know, manage few of the things, but not maintain it. Maintenance and all that, you know, everyone is doing it together, right? Or maybe if you are talking about the maintenance of code or maintenance of the, you know, so that, you know, there are new updates that keep coming and security is then, you know, it's consortium or the governance agency that, you know, will take care of it. Otherwise, you know, it's decentralized solution. Yeah, so Vikram, Sivind, thank you. So actually we have time constraint. Sure, sure, sure, definitely. So I think Sivind Vikram is very, I think really interesting tokenization everyone talking about and central banks are thinking in terms of the CBDCs and the actual currency. So yeah, thank you for that thing. And next topic, next agenda that we have, Narendra Jain, he's a co-founder and CEO of Istio FutureTech. And he's going to present very, really interesting topic and the Istio FutureTech working on the sustainability and supply chain. So everybody are talking about the sustainable development goal, SDJs and circular economy and Istio FutureTech is working on the interesting projects for the customer base in India to build the plastic recycle industry as a kind of circular economy. So over to you, Naish. Thank you, Kamdeesh. And Vikram, it was a wonderful presentation by you and it's really interesting and the space is really opening up with a lot of use cases in the environment in that space and actually it is truly bringing a decentralized finance. So the topic of my presentation is about sustainable supply chain. And let me present that a case study. Actually we have developed a solution called TraceShade and that is for tracing and provenance on using hyperledger fabric. And we are implementing this for one of the customer. Here in India, I cannot take the name of the customer. The customer is a marketing leading market leading sustainable focused plastic recycling company. Basically they are into, it's a recycler. Currently they are doing plastic recycling but they are actually extending it further. So this source all kind of for waste plastic and out of that recycling the products which are created, the output is used by the upper branch of packaging manufacturers. And they are actually talking about developing a sustainable plastic waste management supply chain where you should not have anything in the land, whatever plastic waste which is generated, you should not go to landfill. Rather it should be able to create a valuable material which can be reused in different areas. So the objective is that the customer wants to create an extended producer responsibility platform for recycled waste and not only for plastic for e-waste or for other areas. So I will talk about what is EPR, but that is part of sustainable supply chain. So the major challenge is mainly destruction, it's connected the different suppliers, stakeholders and supply chain are not integrated. So they are talking about creating a digital platform where all stakeholders can become part of that across the waste management and having a rich aid for recycling and it also requires a transparency and traceability of recycled materials. So in a digital platform what a material is recycled using a waste we should be able to trace that. And the EPR transitions, again I will explain what is EPR a lot of documents are also generated they are required for compliance purposes. So what is EPR? EPR is actually part of sustainable supply chain. It's a policy approach and which producers are given responsibility. Responsibility is not only financial responsibility or physical responsibility even in a social responsibility that whatever whatever producer they are doing they have a responsibility that it comes back. Whatever carbon they are generating it should get mitigated. So they should do something so that the plastic and the waste what they are generating it gets reused. They have a responsibility so that environmental impact by the producer what they have done and it's throughout the life cycle of that product on the upstream side on the downstream side across all they should be able to have the responsibility to decrease the environmental impact of the producer what they are doing. But the many challenges the major challenges are monitoring of EPR programs. So for the last couple of decades for sustainable supply chain and to reduce the carbon impact on environment EPR policies and rules have come in across multiple countries globally. But the major challenge is how we monitor how we control these programs. Policies are there, frameworks are there but still implementation management or having the effective effective or implementation EPR is a major challenge and the reasons are various because entire supply chain is complex there are so many different stakeholders and they all have their own systems they are not connected communication is not happening between them and the cost of compliance is actually increasing. Apart from the major challenges that whatever they are doing how to measure that so what is the impacts whatever recycling they have done what is the impact of that how do we measure and the data is not transparent to all the stakeholders so there are various challenges considering that we are using a set trigger tracking trace solution which is based on hypolysis fabric using which we want to track like we are doing tracking tracing monitoring and environmental impact assessment of recycled waste see in this circle it's a circle economy what it means whatever we are producing so basically whenever consumers are using it after that like wrappers or plastic bottles and all that they are generating waste so that waste should get recycled and we should manufacture something we should create something out of that recycled plastic and create some product so it should be a circular economy rather than a linear economy so in this they are waste stakeholders it starts from how the waste is like whenever a consumer is using any product he produces waste and he dumps that again that's a responsibility of a consumer as well as producer how to manage that so in India because this solution of this is being implemented in India waste speakers they collect waste from the landfill and they go to nearby area where commandewala regments are there who collects the waste which goes to a bigger aggregator who collects waste from multiple commandewala and in fact they also segregate the waste because what a waste is collected by the waste speaker there can different kind of waste is there so waste is segregated it comes to waste aggregator the aggregator then gives it to recycler and then recycler recycles the different kind of products different kind of waste and not necessary that each recycler is recycling everything so even in plastic we are talking about there are different kind of plastic so each recycler would have different strengths so recycler recycles the plastic waste creates granules out of that then those granules are given to say yarn manufacturer fabric manufacturer and then it goes to say the final product manufacturer which say we are using manufacturing t-shirts so using recycled plastic so then manufacturer would produce using that fabric with yarn which is from the waste plastic and then finally it goes to consumer and many times you must have seen that on a t-shirt it says that it is made of using the recycled waste but there is no way of verifying there is no way of verifying that the whether the plastic what is used in manufacturing with that is actually recycled and that is where the solution comes because here what we are talking about bringing all of these stakeholders together and track and tracing of each and everything so when all of these come together the data is recorded in blockchain and that data is connected with each other the monitoring is there in terms of quantity how much quantity has been made basically relationship between input and output and based on the geographical location based on the type of plastic or the assets and moving between different parties so the complete transparency is there because of that so let me go a little deeper here in terms of what all is being done here so we are doing a traceability of waste or recycled material across the entire supply chain where we are recording data on blockchain we are also calculating the impact analysis the amount of carbon is mitigated by collecting whatever waste has been collected so what is the impact of that so there is a calculation impact analysis done and in this process auditor certificate is also there which is provided by the auditor so verification because in the entire in this industry a lot of frauds happen and because the entire supply chain is not connected and there is not enough transparency there is not enough proof points because of that same data is actually used multiple times to say that they are actually doing the basically they are mitigating the carbon so here so auditor certificate also comes in picture certificates can be verified through blockchain which even for which we are using hash algorithms then EPR certificates are produced which are used for compliance purposes EPR certificates are given to producers and producers by those EPR certificates and those EPR certificates they use to submit or show that they have taken the responsibility and although those there is complete traceability because even from regulatory point of view they need to prove that the certificate what they are showing how the material has come from what kind of waste they have used for that from where that most waste has come whether it is from land or from the ocean from which geography and what kind of waste complete traceability becomes part of the EPR and even certificate can be printed and compliance reporting can be done based on that and there are lot of documents which are generated which needs to be secured so we are using blockchain for multiple purposes here which is helping in sustainable supply chain so current status of the project is actually we are targeting to go live in January 2022 where initially we will be onboarding the plastic waste recyclers waste aggregators, producers auditors and different suppliers in the later phases we are targeting to induce blockchain loyalty program and this is very important that basic based on token so using tokens because we have to create a large ecosystem we have to onboard different stakeholders so tokenization can help in bringing them onboard and extending the entire platform from ragman to consumer so initially we are not bringing ragman or the consumer on platform but finally the platform will be extended from ragman to consumers and the platform will be extended to across multiple geographies so this is what I want to present as a case study which you are doing for a customer here in India so I have to take your questions any questions? Hi, this is Vikram here so this is part of EEG right? Environmental social governance right? That is correct, yes yeah I think this kind of a solution is quite needed as well given that we are and so much things are happening towards climate as well I think it actually touches so many aspects yeah so we have couple of questions on chat there is one question that is asking which processing cost is too high? How will it offset blockchain cost? So first of all how to say that when we say the blockchain cost is very high see it is a technology solution and I do not fully agree that blockchain cost is that high yes of course infrastructure but otherwise when you use any technology solution there is a cost but the kind of reward you get the kind of efficiency you receive that actually offset your cost much faster so that is what my observation and my belief is whatever I have seen because it is not actually as such a measure second is blockchain definitely adds value in multiple ways for example I talked about tokenization I talked about certificate verification using hash and actually it is ecosystem we are bringing multiple stakeholders together so trust is the most important thing and of course transparency is needed throughout the supply chain so we talk about creating connected ecosystem bringing transparency and authentication of records and documents and compliance so there are lots of things what blockchain offers see I can see couple more questions could you please provide more detail on which items we are trying to trace and base so it starts from the waste material say for example plastic waste what we collect starts from there then once the plastic waste is recycled after that granules are created from there produces we create products so it covers all kind of products overall next question how you trace recycle product what is the technology being used to trace it so for example you are creating plastic granules using plastic waste ok so whatever whatever plastic waste you have collected from different places what is the kind of plastic granules you are creating so there is a link case and there is a recording because all different stakeholders are recording their own data so information is there and that is what is used for trace and base purpose for manufacturing of whatever recycling waste you have from where the waste has come from and we are using geolocation because the data is collected by capturing from location while captures data geolocation geolocation as well as the kind of waste has been collected and it was provided all that information is there in the system so yeah thank you Anju and Vikram yes this kind of solution is much of a requirement ok any other question thanks Naresh that was a great presentation and I believe sustainable supply chain is the way to go forward and with all the compliance requirements also coming into picture we definitely look forward to solutions like these and thanks for sharing how to build a solution using blockchain technology and how it adds to value so up next we have Gijo joining us from chain yard so Gijo is BP at chain yard so maybe you already are familiar with Gijo because he is always wonderful to talk to he has been a great ambassador for us in within this region and I'll probably let Gijo talk more about what he is bringing in today as part of this topic right so over to you Gijo thank you Arun can you everyone hear me Arun can you hear me well yes and we can see your presentations like that ok thank you Arun thanks for the wonderful introduction good morning everybody from India so I have talked about this trustier supplier network I think last year also so I brought it up to Arun he said it is it's a good example to bring it up again so I thought we will re-run but you will see that the network has grown big from from last years so just one line about chain yard chain yard is a blockchain services firm we started in 2015 along with IBM in the hypogear community 2018 we started this product trustier supplier so trustier supplier is a product line within chain yard owned and operated by chain yard so if you very quickly get into trustier supplier we actually don't sell these days trustier supplier as a blockchain solution we just trustier supplier has the solution which actually uses blockchain but blockchain is not a key selling point for the solution we don't tell about the earlier days of 3-4 years back if you put blockchain label in your product and your product get a much better visibility we right now think blockchain is more of an enabler because it just definitely give you the trust on relationship it actually gives the trusted identity of a supplier in a buyers network but it is much more than blockchain because you would see when in the presentation because trust is not just by the network actually trust is by the who is bringing in that trust in the network so that part is very key so if you if I have to explain this solution you know let's just quickly get into a buyer supplier relationship so this product is on a procurement space we started on the procurement space because we thought in a supply chain starts with the procurement area so eventually maybe 3-4 years down the line the product will add features all the way to the end of the supply chain network but the starting point of any supply chain is a procuring a supplier on the buyers network we started with that very fundamental use case so if you have not worked on procurement space the way procurement work is once a buyer need to find a supplier so there is a discovery aspect so there is not a good discovery platform out there there is some existing centralized systems like SAP Ariba has a solution people has a supplier discovery solution then the second thing happens is qualification basically once you got FFT or 25 suppliers you go through some initial qualification of them and you identify let's say 10 of them then you validate you ask those 10 people to submit all their data once they submit all their data starting from the financial statement the trade license let's say the insurance policies board member information some of the ESG things before you mentioned let's say your environment certifications all those things when they submit you cannot you have no way of validating that so people send it to validators like Dunnan brought it Thomson Reuters or chartered accountants or you simply get into the website of the ministry and check their incorporation certificates or you check with environmental certificate like the one before they validate this data of this particular supplier once they are validator they get onboarded the challenge after onboarding is let's say 3 months down the line maybe it's insurance expert, license expert environmental certification expert then this pain point continue to be validated so once we had so the summary of that is the next slide the way it works so in example let's say I am a supplier the right side is a supplier if you can see my mouse he submit all this data to buyer 1 that's when they submit let's say buyer 1 ask 50 questions they submit all this data to buyer 1 and the buyer 1 validate that and when buyer 2 comes in supplier submit same set of data and the buyer 3 comes in supplier submit same set of data probably between 1 and 3 maybe there is a time difference or maybe data is different now my insurance has changed but he has not updated the buyer 1 that data so when we saw this thing we thought why can't we create a why shouldn't we create a supplier identity on a blockchain network that can be cross shared across buyers so that's the starting point so in order to validate that the very first thing you need is take a study of the supplier data hierarchy so what we did is we studied the supplier data hierarchy the data submitted by supplier to buyers in the network we found that 50% is always common we found that if 2 buyers are the same industry take an example there is 2 technology ones like IBM and Cisco they both share another 25% the same data and we found that if they are the same geography they both are the North America then another 10% is same so eventually the buyer specific data what the request from the supplier it's the difference probably is 5 to 10% so this is a very very good use case for a blockchain where in a blockchain you can actually share the supplier can control his data and his identity and he can share it across multiple buyers so everybody I mean I don't need to explain why blockchain is needed for this solution but it's probably understood you could have you could go with the centralized system too but the problem with the centralized system is the supplier is not controlling his own data second is there is no guarantee you want to trust on the data right so definitely you need to have a decentralized system so what does the solution give the solution allows suppliers to create a single identity online with any buyer so that he can cross share with multiple people he can get that thing verified by the veriface or the network so fundamentally it saves the onboarding time today if a supplier buyer takes 60 days to onboard a supplier it depends on how much data is already verified it could get reduced to like one day, two day or could be even seconds so what we created is a large network where there is a supplier, there is a buyer there is a verifier, there is auditors business network providers and third party developers they all come into the same network now the way it works is I mean you can go to youtube type trust your supplier you can see the demo there so I'm not going to run a demo but I'll just walk you very simply how it works on the on the foundation layer the very first time when a buyer want to onboard a supplier buyer will send, invite a supplier so buyer will send let's say 50 questions to supplier, supplier submits all these answers and uploads to the blockchain network now the buyer wanted to verify buyer will send it to verifier to verify those data now verifier verifies the data on the blockchain network and once it is verified the buyer onboards the supplier now the first case it is same as the current network I mean it takes 60 days but when the supplier comes and try to onboard a buyer let's say into another buyer let's say on the same geography on the same geography you will find that around 80-90% of the questions are same so when the buyer too comes in and invites supplier he looks at the questionnaires and sees that 80% of the questions are same so all he has to do is right mouse click and share that verify data to the second buyer too so the buyer too has to verify only the rest of the 20% of the questions so the first part of doing this is standardization of the data we wanted to get a standardization on the procurement space so any buyer who coming to our network he has to go through a remap is existing onboarding process into a standardized form in the blockchain network so so how does it applicable what we come is like the biggest advantage of such a network is risk and compliance and the risk and compliance get eased out by the verifiers coming in and verifying the data the risk and compliance today there is a large set a trusted supplier verifies is starting identity, bribery, anti-bribery banking, cyber security sustainability, financial health I will show you some of the verifiers in our next slide health and safety so if you look at the if you look at the like for example echo worries is a verifier in our blockchain network who actually verifies all the all the ESG and environmental safety and those aspects I think Dunn and Bratsheet verifies all the diversity, inclusion, identity functions and all those things rapid rating actually gives the risk rating for the client so there is a large set of large set of people join the network so this is only a sample set so what we did is we did something slightly different from a traditional blockchain network so we created a governance board we created a governance board with a large 18 companies 200 companies each one or two companies from each each domain as an example from the financial side we have American Express and AP Morgan from the telecom we have Nokia joined from the oil oil and gas we have BHP and Aramco technology we have IBM and Cisco from the manufacturing we have Lenovo so we created from the veriface we have Dunn and Bratsheet so we created a consortium with this governance board so what this consortium does is in the consortium make sure fair representation of everyone in the network make sure the features which features get prioritized in what order and make sure the marketing of the network getting people all fair aspects of the network is maintained by the governance board and there are some buyers which we were we called the founding buyers you know those buyers we couldn't get them on the governance board so those people continue to support us validators are the people who actually validate the data on the network I mean this slide is pretty old one so you see that as a large set of validators here in this older slide and business network so there is a two different approaches again this is a very good approach for some of you who are actually trying to create such network see validators are the people validate data on the blockchain network business network are the people who actually takes data from the blockchain network and create additional services on top of that as an example SAP Ariba is a business network so using SAP Ariba let's say you are using SAP Ariba today as your procurement solution you can continue to use SAP Ariba but instead of using SAP Ariba's database you will plug in to trust your supply database so you get a trusted verified data on your existing client system so the way we did this we created a skeleton API we exposed the API to people so the community can take those APIs and create a new solution on top of a pressure supplier network so eventually it becomes a marketplace the marketplace of like an Amazon marketplace our marketplace of all buyers and supplies coming into one single network and once all the supplies and buyers are there we can add more services I mean chain yet can add ourselves more services these business network people they can come and add more services example you can add a service called find a supplier find a buyer or do trade finance on top of this right I mean the opportunities are actually endless on this particular so in today the current status it's in production you can go trust your supplier and you can sign up it is available in 70 countries 70 plus countries I think 30 plus global fortune 500 buyers are already there the large set of I think more than 2 dozen third party validators there supplier ramping up supplies and partner so the way we went to the market is we don't onboard suppliers we actually onboard the buyers into the blockchain network once the buyers are onboarded each of with the standardized data set these buyers go and onboard their supplies I mean I don't need to go through the benefits it's all self-explanatory I mean for this community I think I can this particular slide might be of interest to people with the technology background a lot so so on the privacy this is the first question which comes to all of us you know how does the privacy work in India right supplies are worried about the around data so if you look at the beauty of blockchain blockchain allows you to control your data and you can share to whoever people you want to try so we went through audit we went to GDPR audit CCPA HIPAA SOX 1 2 SOX and all those audits this is audits are being cleared so it follows the policies it follows the concerns it follows the clarifications third party management PA is maintained in option database you know financial ownership you know there's a large set of security aspects being covered by this trust your supply network and most importantly we have a large governance board so I think I'll stop at this point there are more presentations coming up I'm open for questions is there any hi this is Sandeep here very nice presentation you know and very insightful and the governing board is a very good example here so this network is being used by let's say any financial institution also or is it more to do with the buyer supplier combination or today the banks are also using it yeah this American Express and the other one right the two of them are the governance board right they be more so they come in as a buyers in the network so all these companies has a thousands of supplies they have today so an example like I think Nokia or IBM or all those people definitely will have more than 10,000 supplies 10,000 some of them 20 30 40,000 supplies so managing the supplies is a painful thing as an example let's take the reverse order of a supplier let's say one supplier is connected to 25 buyers today his trade license expires he has to go through renew that thing and submit copy to all 25 buyers all 25 buyers go and verify that data in a blockchain network he updates our submit only once and verifier comes and verifies it smart contract updates everybody so 90% of the data is automated so any company is across all region all domain anyone who can come and join as a buyer now your second part of your question is can a banking or someone come and create a trade finance on top of this right I think you are going to that line Sandeep yes definitely I think there is already one company who actually signed up I think trade shift is a member in that that region they are not that particular services not at start offering but that is in the roadmap and even your company the large bank wanted to offer trade finance or certain applications on top of let's say product pricing or you know we can definitely come in the roadmap once that is why we went and started at the procurement space not instead of opening the network at the some company started on the supply chain provenance play some people started on the trade finance aspect and we thought it is most ideal and when China started this we went with straight with IBM procurement Bob Murphy of CPO of IBM he is a partner IBM is a partner in this particular solution so we take it to the market together very interesting so I will connect with you probably subsequently and engage and understand more how to connect on this system so you are the right person for this yeah I am actually the VP so the whole team is in a larger team is in the US but I can definitely take you to a level of you know of making a decision and once we are on board we could hand over to the full-fledged supply chain awesome thanks we have networking break out coming up after the next talk so we will have more networking going on over there and thanks to you I guess this was a great idea especially the consortium model the governance model that you brought up what has worked as per your experience and the way the problem statement itself is position that makes a great benefit of blockchain technology itself so up next we have thanks to you again up next we have Srishti who is a director at settlement so Srishti has been quite remarkable and she has been a great volunteer for us recently so she started knowing about Hyperledger India chapter and then there is a lot to learn from each other and all the experience that her organization has brought in in recent times within blockchain technology and she is going to talk about how blockchain technology is simulating it is acting as a simulating tool to establish a trust economy and how are we doing with Web 3 with blockchain technology itself so I will let Srishti talk about more on that and over to you Srishti thank you thank you Arun thank you for the introduction so today I would like to cover the topic about how blockchain technology enterprise blockchains are making space and what are some of the trends and few use cases for enterprise blockchains so what I would like to start with definitely is the evolution of blockchain and not going into details much but for sure how the evolution of the internet has been we all know about the Web 1.0 and where it was more of an information economy and data was being published and not much interaction was happening and the Web 2.0 where we are having a lot of interactions social media is there it's being published many interactions are happening and with the Web 3.0 where it's an internet of value where we are working towards not only transformation of data in real time video audios but also assets fungible, non fungible over the internet without the need of intermediaries more so the evolution of creating decentralized autonomous organization and having processes and even business flows governed by smart contracts so that's how the evolution of blockchain has gone through so I'll be covering a little about what blockchain essentially is what are the capabilities of blockchain and how it becomes a good fit for enterprises differentiating between the centralized databases and enterprise blockchain and what are the few of the use cases so blockchain is can be considered as an electronic leisure where we are maintaining the chord of all transactions in a decentralized way which is distributed over a network of nodes which are computers processing the information so it's a shared database that can record these transactions in a verifiable way and an essentially immutable way so where it comes from definitely is the fact that we would want more control to the user where we see between Web 2.0 and Web 3.0 is there is an increasing need of giving more control to the end users and also the evolution of cell sovereign identities and digital identities so so that's where blockchain is making space and we are having real time and unalatable records replicated among all the participants so this is an intuitive way of looking at a blockchain where all the transactions are recorded in a block and the transactions are linked cryptographically through hash algorithms which essentially makes it tamper proof or tamper resistant so that's one aspect the hash algorithms are used as a function to compute data of any arbitrary length and return of fixed data so it ensures the consistency of the content which has been put on the blockchain so a blockchain essentially in an enterprise scenario is creating a secure communication to synchronize the data and events between different network participants and it's being used to simplify the infrastructure and streamline operations and of course enable new business models so what are the some of the features or the capabilities of blockchain which make it essentially suitable in enterprises so one definitely is the fact that the blockchain is using cryptographically so it's decentralized and it's cryptographically secure the other one is definitely that we are using different consensus algorithms to ensure the validation of the transactions which are happening so for the public blockchains there is proof of work, there is proof of stake and for enterprise blockchain voting based consensus algorithms are being used and each of the data is being replicated across the nodes and it's a single source of copy and a single share of truth transparency is being maintained by using blockchain so apart from that of course with the evolution of public blockchains there has been movement through the enterprise ethereum alliance where we've worked efforts to make it more touring complete and that's where smart contracts are being used essentially smart contracts are these are predetermined rules which can enforce business logics and the terms and conditions can be enforceable and they're basically if then else code which are put on blockchain and can enforce the conditions in near real time so what are the features which make it the drivers for enterprise blockchain because it's a share database where the provenance and the validation of the transactions can be accounted for and the immutability part of it where the transactions are basically cryptographically linked and the part consensus algorithms are used for the validation of transactions which are there so there are different type of blockchains being used public blockchains private blockchains enterprise blockchains there is more require of decentralization where we are having permissioned blockchains and people with certain permissions and can access the blockchains which ensures the security and the privacy over the chain so so what makes blockchain and traditional database what are some of the inherent capabilities so blockchain would come into picture where we are looking and would reign supreme over a central database where we are looking for a disintermediation and we are looking for a secure and robust network and of course audit trails if you are looking to reduce the frictions in the business reconciliations dispute resolutions and of course transferring digital assets over the network so those are the scenarios in business networks where blockchain is reigning supreme over the traditional distributed database networks and some of the use cases where these are being used for is solving as a collaboration platform to solve for the coordination failures and horizontal integration over an ecosystem of participants across the different industries and of course there is the digital identities and self sovereign identities which are governed by W3C standards which are ensuring how we are maintaining digital identities over the internet where we are having different avatars and maintaining them in a decentralized way and of course using smart contracts to enforce compliance for the business rules so while we are having a blockchain with its different capabilities there is also a degree of decentralization which is to be maintained for enterprise blockchain so if we will have a look at the right hand side extreme right of the spectrum we will see the centralized ledgers which are the traditional systems with high throughput and privacy being maintained and towards the left is the public blockchains where essentially there are efforts to make them censorship resistant no changes being made by the central authorities and all governed by the network by consensus algorithms like proof of work the enterprise blockchains make way somewhere in between where we are looking for permission and a more secure network where there can be a privacy of the transaction networks which is happening so this is an overview of how the enterprise blockchain is different from the traditional distributed ledgers and of course since it is over to be a network there is no single point of failures and an enterprise blockchain while the accounting is being maintained for disparate parties over a network if you will have a look the manual processes and a lot of time lags would happen while the accounting is happening through the manual processes and over an enterprise blockchain it provides for a secure communication protocol that would automate the intra-firm processes and make it more efficient and transactions happening in a near real-time network so while these things can of course be done by traditional databases blockchain would make a more suitable business sense or a business case for enterprises because if you will have a look the number of API integrations and the cost of maintenance which would happen if you are trying to collaborate over participants which are more than 4 would be a lot whilst the same over an enterprise blockchain where each of the enterprise is having its own identity it's a more scalable architecture and even the cost-wise it would be much suitable so these are the scenarios where we are looking for cross-collaboration among different participants over a network where blockchain reigns supreme over the traditional databases so where exactly the enterprise blockchain makes place so this is an overview of the enterprise blockchain architecture while the upstream side of it you will see that we are having the validation and the document management the enterprise blockchain is basically the data tier of the application which takes care of the business logic and the transaction recording happening so there are a lot of questions which we get that why blockchain why not traditional bases but it's just that coming from the fact that blockchain is a secure database which has some of the inherent capabilities which would make it with solve for the non-repudiation part of it verifiability, accountability part of it so so this is an insight into the application architecture where we see where blockchain is making space so we have the entire stack where we are of course having the distributed ledger, the transactions as part of the infrastructure we having the consensus mechanism and the security controls and the smart contracts we can do the data sourcing through different platforms which can be CRM, CRPs and of course because of the challenges which we face because of the adaptation these data sourcing can also be done through WhatsApp or EDIs or Excel and that's and of course this can be linked to the external web applications or the front-end applications mobile applications and also dashboards and reports can be provided so when does blockchain make sense is while we are working for a shared repository there are multiple writers limited trust digital transfer of digital assets to reduce the cost of intermediaries in a decentralized way and providing for transparency and of course where there are multiple batch reconciliations happening, transaction dependencies, these are scenarios where a blockchain application would make much of business sense to enterprises and of course while we are using blockchain for the digital transformation in enterprises it's also creating new network-based business models leveraging technologies like IoT, big data machine learning and analytics and it's disrupting different sectors while it started with the financial industry making way into the different sectors of manufacturing and supply chain, logistics trade, finance the public sector extensively in smart cities and a lot of a lot of way in the identity management for self-sovereign identity. So these are some of the advantages of blockchain for enterprises where we are having a process efficiency through the transaction management the transactions being validated by smart contracts in a continuous manner and visibility with all participants and of course we are using microservices and container-based applications and taking care of disaster recovery in the blockchain applications which we are making so it's enabling the business models with trusted data and a single source of data and providing for a continuous accounting and verifiability of transactions. So which of the sectors currently blockchain is disrupting multiple sectors starting definitely making in the financial services in the banks and BFSI but also in the retail consumer and agribusiness energy sector for peer-to-peer energy use cases of trading platforms for green energy are being done and also in the transportation and logistics and these are some of the use cases which are happening in the farm and life life sciences there are use cases for product authenticity validation different use cases for the way voting is being done where we are automating maybe people-based voting asset tokenization in the financial sector where fractional trading of assets like stocks and bonds are being done and providing for a transparency in the donation space trade finance centralized KYC system for multiple banks where it would provide better consumer interactions and of course a centralized place where all the information can be leveraged by multiple banks so quickly I'll go through a few of the use cases which we've developed its settlement one is definitely of a sustainable track and trace solution which we've delivered for one of the leading viewers at ABN where they were faced with a couple of challenges one of course is over the over the supply chain and multiples of flow they were looking for a transparency because a lot of data was we maintained in silos and second definitely from a sustainability standpoint where they wanted to help the indirect farmers so we helped them develop a blockchain-based application where we provided transparency into the entire value chain so from the time the grain is harvested till the time the beer reaches the end consumer the end consumer can have visibility into the entire journey and of course from the sustainability standpoint the data benchmarking helped indirect farmers to improve their productivity profitability and environmental footprint so what I'll just do I'll quickly also show and inside of so this is the application which we created for the end user while you scan the QR code which is available at the package the consumer is able to see the entire journey from the time the grain is harvested which farm which is the farmer details about the farmer at the time stamp then it's transported to the malting company and of course it undergoes various transformation in the malting company it's skilled it's heated and what time all the information is available to the end consumer and after that it reaches the brewery where again it goes into multiple transformation where the malt is consumed and different products are produced at different levels before it is fermented and bottled and retailed to the end distribution so this is the details which are available to the end consumer providing for the increased trust and of course also helping them from the sustainability standpoint where the GHG emissions and the yield of the farmers is being marked and benchmarked by our client and for this solution we are using Hyperledge Basu okay we are still seeing the PPTO okay I just saw is the screen visible now yes okay I just missed that message so this is details of the journey where the end consumer while consuming the beer we have insight into which farmer at what time the green is harvested the bales harvested it moves to the malting company which malting company what times time what is the transformation which happens at the malting company and of course then it is transported to the brewery which is ABNBEB it undergoes multiple transformation where the malt is converted into wort and beaker before it is actually fermented and bottled and retail to the end consumer so all the information with timestamp is available to the end consumer and that provides for increasing the customer trust and also it helps them from the sustainability standpoint so I will just run through a couple of more use cases and then we could go for any questions if there are any so also with call write group we helped them develop a farm to folk use case where they were having some challenges with risk back to proving the provenance of the bio pig which is there so we helped them develop a blockchain based solution which provided for the digital history of the pigs where what time the pig has been in the farm which is the organic farm what is the feed how much time it spent with its mother that recalls is important for the quality of the pig and of course then it moves to the slaughterhouse when the first processing is done and again it moves to call write group where multiple processing is again done and the entire journey with time is available to the end consumer using the blockchain based application and that of course helped in increasing the brand engagement and unlocking new data mining capabilities and this is one last which voting case which we have done for Indonesia for the presidential elections of 2019 and it's not the it's just a replication it's not the real elections just for a tabulation coin account of the voting which has been done so in Indonesia there are 17,000 islands and this was an automation of the paper based voting and of course to reduce the stress which happens till the time the results of the voting come which essentially takes six weeks the blockchain based application was able to provide a tabulation of the vote counter in a time period of four hours and there was multiple levels of aggregation in Indonesia where from the national level to the province to the district level to the region C and then there are polling stations so what we did was of course not getting the entire system on the blockchain but the result of at each polling station which was witnessed and a photographic evidence of that was put on the blockchain and this is one another P2P energy use case where we are automating the supplier supply and demand and the bid management over a trading platform that was developed along with activity which maintained the meter at the different suppliers and different firms and of course the blockchain based solution helped in the accelerated settlement in mere real time so any questions I would like to take that I am Leroz here actually might be the question is back to the buyer and supplier relation so my question is do you have a mechanism currently working or you have plans to have a feedback constructive feedback from the suppliers or the buyers and create a sort of a scoring which can really easily available for the buyer on a credibility perspective that is one question and the second question is we talk about reliability or trust on suppliers why can't we think the other way also why shouldn't we have the same way trust on mother to trust on the buyers also you can think about a buyer who is about to go into a bankruptcy and still going into deals with the supplier so these are the two questions probably I think I am not specifically to this slides but might be back to what Gijo has presented before thank you right so what I would like to say for this I mean Gijo can add for sure about this well we would like to create a system for the suppliers and a trust system for that on the others I think I will ask Gijo that question thank you Susti definitely these two both the models are there the first model is already existing so you can have a supplier creating based on the various combinations of suppliers data and there are service providers and providers are creating into the blockchain network and the second one the reverse the reverse one also I believe it's new to me but it's a very interesting interesting question it's definitely it is doable right I mean so the Dunn & Bratsch it is providing or rapid writing is providing a rating you know they can provide the other reverse direction also so that's why in my presentation if I take one more line and add to when my presentation I said see blockchain provides you trust but it depends on who actually giving you the rating if a company who is not trust giving a credit rating of 10 out of 10 blockchain will just carry that so you need to ensure that ecosystem the set of people providing the trust are actually the trusted people seen and choose the immutability thank you thanks trustee thanks to Joe I guess that answers the famous saying within blockchain technology space right so what we put in blockchain is what we get outside so if we put garbage in we get garbage out so while it's important that we gain immutability aspect from the blockchain technology it's also important how well we validate the resources and how effectively we make use of the data points within what we are going to store within blockchain technology and then make best benefit of smart contracts so we are going to stop live streaming on YouTube and we are going to switch into a networking break now so for all those who are watching us on YouTube maybe you can join to our zoom channel for networking break hi Julian I guess YouTube streaming is still going on probably we should stop it yeah I don't know this has been an interesting experiment maybe you can transfer me the host I'll try to stop it or I can stop it let me stop it I can stop live stream