 one time a year I take the power I'll call this meeting to order according to town charter the slack word shall meet within 14 days the annual meeting for the purpose of organizing electing a chair and vice-chair in adopting rules of transaction and charter also states that Tom manager shall preside at the organizational meeting prior to the election of the chair it as I've said in the past it offers no guidance on however as to what the manager should do while presiding and I've always kind of taken charming approach had taken the extra time to offer words of wisdom although this board is of course a very experienced board and has many years of wisdom wrapped up in the members here I want to start by welcoming Terry and joy back to the board although you never really had it in from break but joy you're starting the third year as I understand it and Terry's got your feet though he's starting his 17th year on the board and of course while serving on the board it gives you all an opportunity to learn all kinds of interesting things and facts and tonight's going to be no exception there's an interesting array of topics on the agenda but I want to start us off with a couple facts of my own first I want to was wondering if you knew that when Terry mckay first ran for a slack board he lost by 28 votes sorry about that I never forget what I'm having that day Terry ran a year later and a contested election won by 993 votes can anyone guess or remember who he ran against in that election Chris Roy was someone that's not been active his name was Michael Fian another interesting fact that has nothing to do with those facts and it has to do with phrase close but no cigar does anyone have any idea where that phrase came from carnivals right that's right Ted knows the answer if I had a prize I'd give it to you to fill that out a little bit in the 19th century they had carnival games like much like to have now but they're geared more towards adults and so instead of stuffed animals they often gave out cigars and so and they obviously were targeted towards adults and so the guy running the game if you lost he might say or she might say well it's probably man most cases in that time but anyway he might say well close but no cigar and that's how the phrase got to start so anyway enough of all that I think it's now time to call for nominations for the chair of select board and so I will entertain such a motion is chair of the select board so the motion has been made in sector to nominate Terry McKay as the chair of the select board so I will call for vote all those in favor oh I should ask are there any other nominations hearing none I'll call for a vote all those in favor please indicate by saying hi all right anyone so Terry it was fun last thank you Rick so next on the agenda is then to elect the vice-chair are there any nominations for the office of vice chair he's still in to nominate Jeff fairs for vice-chair all second thank you for vice-chair all those in favor of electing Jeff fairs as vice-chair say hi hi any opposed one abstention do you have to abstain it was appropriate all right so move on to the minutes of February 20th night 2018 and is there a motion move to approve the minutes of February 20th 2018 with any amendments there to is there a second age one honest it was so long ago different whether we're not meeting weekly isn't true good point just had one thing under item number 10 the town managers for the second bullet talks about a charter change will likely be proposed to change the town clerk and town treasurer from elected positions to appointed but I think it would be an opportunity for the town to have a vote to the side whether or not the town clerk and treasurer should be elected I agree it's for I actually thought that I had wanted to delay going into executive session until Ted was present on 12 so I don't recall making that motion I did I apologize hearing no other corrections to the minutes all those in favor of approving the minutes of February 20th 2018 say aye and one abstention Ted and we'll go on to public comment is there anyone in the audience who wishes to make any public comment on any item either on or not on the agenda see no hands raised to move on to the select board rules on transaction and meeting schedule this is actually identical to the rules of transaction to board adopted last year this is it lays out the set of rules that the board operates on according during the course of the year and one of the attachments is the meeting schedule meeting schedule again follows pretty much the same schedule this year first and third Tuesdays except in December and January we have more meetings because of the budget this by the way this can be changed during the course here it's not absolutely set in stone questions for Rick of regarding either the rules or the attachment a if not a motion would be in order I move to adopt the select board rules of transaction and meeting schedule discussion of the motion all those in favor of motion say aye I may oppose and no extensions all right if I made a reform as we adopt some they seem only be passing along the copies for signature just you know next those two doesn't make for examining and allowing claims and as you may recall we've done this in the past years and a number of years Jeff Harris has been the person to be the person to the first one in charge of doing that I was doing that as an alternate for many years and I think of the past year Terry Zittrich volunteers for the alternate well for one either for the first of the second the signers are you willing to serve I would be happy to defer to joy on that it that's I'm happy to do it but I'm also happy somebody else I'm happy to serve as your alternative oh okay I'm I get your point sure sounds good volunteers who may wish to do that well all the rest of us are sort of in line do that if the first two are not available so I believe that requires a motion it says a suggested resolution is included it's just the resolution is this yes so a motion to approve the resolution with the two individuals named would be this is a second very clear second discussion of the motion you're the motions I am I all right moving on to the catamount license agreement is going to talk about the counter license no actually we have Linda we have others coming so as you know for the past year and a half the town has been working with the trust of for public land to acquire as part of that process it's been the mutual understanding and desire of the town and the colors to that the outdoor center would continue to operate their programs and maintain the 20 mile trail system out there so that town residents and visitors can continue to enjoy these amenities with limited additional allocation of resources from the town so after many months of negotiation and many drafts of agreements we feel we've negotiated an agreement with the outdoor center that that is fair and reasonable I have provided you the draft agreement and also the memo summarizing the different sections if you would like I can go through the entire agreement or if you know if you know particular sections that you'd rather focus on either way your preference on your choice any particular item that you wish to question on this license thing I asked that we just kind of go through and maybe hit the high points on each section for the major terms that we would be interested in yeah yeah I'd be happy to do that I have one question that isn't necessarily about the agreement itself it's more about the process and my question is along the lines of I have my personal preferences about kind of on outdoor center and whether you know they could do a good job running it but the question has to do with is it appropriate I don't know I don't know how to exactly ask the question so let me muddle through it is it appropriate for the town to in a sense only negotiate with one entity you know for instance we have procurement policies and we have to go get you know at least three bids that type of thing right so this is asking the question of is this the appropriate mechanism to choose if you will does that make sense it does make sense correct me if I'm wrong but at this point because of the property owner we don't have really any choice as I understand it so so yeah so as part of the terms of the option agreement with trust for public land okay there was an understanding that the McCullis basically wanted this transferred to to basically be contingent on the outdoor center continuing to be the entity that runs their programs until they no longer want to do that and subject to the terms and subject to the terms of the license agreement so if I were to kind of rephrase that if I were if the select board were to let's say object just totally hypothetically that could put this whole deal in jeopardy um yeah yeah I did I guess I didn't realize I'm glad you brought that up because I didn't realize that's what this was about so they're basically setting conditions down upon which we would secure the property for the town that says the only way we're going to transfer this to the town is if we have the catamount outdoor family center organization run it right again according to terms and conditions of the license agreement which is why you're reviewing it now way ahead wealth not so way ahead but ahead of when we plan to have the closing why would we want this because does that take I guess because I don't know I haven't read through all the details here well frankly I my preferences would not to be having exactly condition exactly but that's that's not the the you know what the deal that we're handed basically so okay I've got the answer here and then when we do get to oh there's a section here that talks about hey I finally wash through the agenda we're very fast we didn't try to avoid that wasn't the purpose perhaps now it's a time for her to go through item by item okay yeah okay if you might I'm sorry for interrupting you might want to refer to her memo of March 13 yeah so I think she'll be using that to go through the right so if you have so okay so the first section just basically states the whole purpose of the license that have to be and this is important that are consistent with the conservation easement so that is repeated at several times throughout the agreement that everything's got to be consistent with the conservation easement yeah I'm sorry I hope you don't mind me interrupting not at all thing I've done it twice already tonight could you explain just real briefly the conservation easement versus the land that the town is going to actually own so the conservation easement is what are our terms that are basically established for the protection of the property and and held by the land trust and Vermont Housing and Conservation Board and the purpose of the conservation easement is so the land will be protected perpetually protected for free public access and recreational values and natural resource values so just briefly restate town owns the land and on top of the on top of what the town owns in terms of property is this conservation easement which establishes the criteria in which the town will yeah that for lack of better words operate that's correct and that's that would be similar to other town properties like Mud Pond Country Park and etc very good thanks sure so the term of the license would be 10 years and that would be renewable upon mutual agreement of the town and the outdoor center there is there are provisions to terminate the agreement earlier if either party is not holding up their side of the agreement the basically there's no we're not we wouldn't be charging the outdoor center fee to to use the property because of my previous comment about you know why are what why is this why was there only one entity so the town if it is unhappy with how kind of an outdoor center is managing or taking care of its end of the agreement or we come to the conclusion is not living up to their end of the agreement we have the ability to terminate that's that's correct and I'll talk about that later okay on any agreement I'd like to comment on the 10-year piece we argued rather strenuously for a five-year term I was actually thinking the same and we kind of reached a stalemate to a certain extent and and their argument for a 10-year versus five-year was that they plan to make investments and those investments if they make them early in the contract five years is isn't enough time to really recover so that's why they're arguing for a 10-year do you mind if I just chime in with one other and they also pointed out that when applying for grants grant funding a lot of funders like to see a relatively long license term agreement so is that sort of standard for these types of agreements 10 years it varies widely and actually one example I have is are you familiar with the Lamoille Valley rail trail yes actually so familiar with it physically not how it right well well so in that case vast has developed the rail trail it has an agreement a license to use the rail quarter with v-trans and that the term of that I believe is 20 years or 25 years it might even be longer so you know it it's it's not uncommon to have that length of term thanks sure a lot of Vermont mountain biking association when they work with private landowners and sometimes towns for licensees or that they they use a 10-year agreement because of the amount of time volunteer time and costs that the group puts into creating and maintaining the trails to and they kind of don't want that stripped from under them after just a year or two or four or six okay and would that be similar with the Heinzburg town force would that be would you know that I high as brick town force doesn't have a license agreement with that fellowship the wheel they know they don't they have okay I think they have a memorandum of agreement or something like that okay I just hold that up as an example I think a successful town ownership of a town force with recreational uses on it so that was why that question so under permitted uses all the uses of the property have to adhere to the conditions of the conservation easement and the community forest management plan which is being worked on right now and the outdoor center would be responsible for maintaining and improving the trails within the 20-mile trail network as well as maintaining any structures that he uses on the property and there are some restrictions around when trees can be removed and if and the construction of new trails both of those things unless the only tree removal that's allowed is hazard trees or trees that are fallen over trails or in danger of falling over trails other than that they would have to get permission from the town and the land trust to remove any trees or construct new trails the maintenance of the seven bridges is are you comfortable I guess the best way to ask that is are you comfortable that that's a workable yes the way it read here is it sounded a little for lack of better words loose okay yeah so yeah so the town has agreed to take responsibility meaning we will pay for the materials to construct those seven bridges and the outdoor center will assist by providing their labor and equipment to construct the foot there are you know foot bridges they're not like major river okay just to add a point on that is at least some of those we have a outstanding grant application to Vermont Recreation Trails Grant program to cover some of the costs of that so if the if the Catamount Door Family Center and the town is successful with that grant then it's not going to come out of your budget that was for 19,000 and change well that also included the grant also included other bridges that they wanted to build besides these seven structures they had like some short structures over ditches and whatnot and then after the initial upgrades those bridges are done the outdoor center would be responsible for maintaining those crossings in good repair so the second section of under maintenance talks about a development of an annual maintenance plan which will be done cooperatively between the town and the outdoor center basically covering the trail network and any areas that are used by the outdoor center and the way that that plan would work is in the fall I believe it's October town staff one town staff person maybe probably myself will take a walk around the trail system with a representative of the outdoor center and we will you know talk about what improvements they want to make and then they will submit a maintenance plan to the town which then gets reviewed and approved and adjusted if necessary and then one once that town plan that the maintenance plan has been approved by the town and they have a certain amount of time to conduct that maintenance they have like a year or so to conduct that maintenance and complete the and and then see is just you know trail maps will be readily available for to the public and any maintenance and construction needs to adhere to trail best management practices there are various manuals that are out there and available for that detail those best management practices and specifically no trail maintenance activities will be allowed which would degrade water quality and that's also a condition in the conservation easement as well the ability of the COFC to create usable maps but given I think they're getting some help from times I've been lost on the property but but anyway that were you successful with them oh well they are helping them with signage and I actually I was out there this afternoon before I came to this meeting doing some skiing and I noticed a lot of new signage around so that was pleased to see that a start at least yeah on number D and please bear in mind that this is the world I work in a little bit is this concept of forest land is a potential source of nutrients to Lake Champlain so these kind of a you know could become a sticky point down the road if somebody has to implement some sort of force management to minimize runoff minimize nutrients sediment I don't know the lay of the land well enough to know what the potential there is but any thoughts on that I mean this is not a showstopper by any chance right this is more curious when I saw that you know no activity shall yeah and specifically when you look at the the language in the in the agreement basically says there shall be no manipulation of natural water courses wetlands or other water bodies you know nor shall there be any activities conducted on property detrimental water quality accept as minimally necessary to carry out the permitted the use is permitted on these lands under this agreement and the conservation easement so I think what that says is that you know we're making every effort that we can to be really conscious of how the trail construction could have enough negative impact on water quality and to try and mitigate those impacts whenever and wherever possible just to be conscious about that okay good thanks one advantage of this property is it's not too steep sometimes you get you know a lot of erosion when you've got particularly steep trails and water starts running down and and while there are some areas of slope on the property compared to a lot of other mountain biking networks this is what I was just going to add as a mountain biker I find it plenty steep at times yeah so section six the community forest plan and conservation easement so this just describes the process for if there are amendments to the community forest plan that may restrict the uses of the outdoor center and how that's going to be negotiated so that this agreement is consistent with the plan and vice versa the plan is consistent with this agreement and informational signs that's that just says you know that it's okay to have informational signs on the property as long as it's you know described under the annual plan and its compliance with its in compliance with all applicable regulations and also there and I mentioned grant funding requirements because the federal community forest grant does require us to have some science about civil rights compliance with civil rights it's kind of I don't know seems like an odd little thing but they specify what type of wording we're supposed to use and that we're supposed to have signage so and outdoor centers responsible for utilities use of the property so use section 9 use for general special events it just this provides a process for cooperation between the town and the outdoor center around scheduling special events on the property so that's correct so the town has the authority to vet all the special events that are proposed and to approve those special events which also need to be consistent with the conservation easement oh so maybe I'm reading it wrong so I'm reading it that the town must approve whatever the cofc submits to them you're saying the town must approve them as it's it's a kind of a plan words approval by the town no it's a discretion of the town whether to approve that's what I was okay I understand your point so the town has to a right to has the right of refusal or right that's correct yeah when however you your attorneys might might say that yeah just the discretion not the obligation of the town's discretion or okay it'd be it'd be better to word that maybe this is just a memo yes okay got it that's the wording is confusing in the memo I apologize thank you so yeah and so the town can also suggest its own events and you know through a cooperative process the the town and the outdoor center can agree on additional events that the town may add to them so you haven't really talked about usage and in how the property will be used and who dictates how the property will be used is that entirely now with the cofc and not at not at all with the town is that with this so the the management plan will that is going to cover the usage how the property is used primarily drafted by the cofc by the town committee by the community catamount community forest committee that was appointed by the select board earlier last year actually come back with recommendations yeah right right right we're not right I would have maybe just outlined it because you know how was it going to be used I was going to be managed so because I'm still interested in hearing about what the this group that you put together we voted to put together yeah right and so so this agreement is really we tried to kind of separate this agreement out although it will be attached to the you know it'll be an attachment to the management plan but it is a separate agreement between the town and the outdoor center it does I I hear that can that it is a little confusing that you know which pieces will be handled by which entity but I think yeah to answer your question about the uses on the property that you will be seeing a draft plan soon so that will be the town retains that that right yes okay so are you move on section 10 fees this section just just identifies the types of activities that the outdoor center can charge fees for they are allowed to charge fees that are reasonable to support their operations fees can't be charged for pedestrian use which is defined as walking running snowshoeing and sledding that is that happens not in connection to any events so if people are on the property they're attending a catamount outdoor family center event but you know but they're also walking they have to pay the event fee but if people just come out of the property and they're walking on the property there's no charge for that or they're running on the property or snowshoeing okay so is that everybody okay with that I'm fine with that just I wonder if there's going to be conflicts you know potentially down the road with that you know maybe the outdoor centers interpretation of when a fee should be charged versus maybe the town's interpretation or do you think it's sufficiently clear I think it's pretty clear beg your pardon I don't believe there's been a conflict to date even with how it's running now because when they charge and don't charge I don't that doesn't seem like that's going to be an issue well I'm just thinking you know the for instance might be there's a running race going on like there is yeah every Tuesday night but I choose to just just I just want to run yeah I hate it for it to be the type thing where I'm feel like I'm being told I should buy a ticket when I'm like wait a second maybe I don't need to or not take it but a pass or whatever yeah yeah I mean I can I can see what you mean example right yeah and and I think there will need to be you know an effort to inform people that go use the property you know race nights or these nights you might want to you know walk on the other side of the road or you know like just just indicate what trails are being used for the races and you know just sort of encourage people to use other areas it does say it you know not in connection to any event so it sounds like if you were there but you weren't signed up on the roster yeah but I guess we'd have to read the whole license I mean I think in the case where somebody wants to go there to run and they're running the race course along with the other I mean I think there would be a case for charging them a fee but say I mean I'm a runner and if I'm running in a race I'm running in a race and if I'm not I don't want to see you in your right maybe I'm being a little nitpicky here but I just you know this is kind of a unique situation you're getting back to my Heinberg town for example there are no fees ever charged there so it never ends up being a conflict this is this is kind of unique and maybe it's just to recognize that the uniqueness of this yeah yep okay under section 11 trail closure so basically the town can close trails if there is there there is degradation of natural resources due to trail abuse or muddy conditions if there's a planned timber harvest if we discover there's a sensitive nest or den near the trail or other situations of trail abuse that result in the denigration of resource and note that we're not including any safety closures for safety reasons because I think that would increase the town's liability exposure to kind of take any responsibility for safety closures so we're leaving that in the hands of the trail corridor manager and then under section 12 town reserved rights so the town this talks a lot about timber management about the town's right to conduct forest management practices and and kind of you know trying to minimize the disruption to recreational activities on the property and and repair any damage to the trail system that's incurred by forest management activities and also have the right to access the property by motorized vehicles if it's necessary for maintenance or emergency purposes again being careful not to minimize to minimize the disruption to the trails and also have the right to hold special events on the property or to invite others to hold special events provided that we cooperate with and give adequate notice to the outdoor center that we hold adequate liability insurance that we restore the area if necessary after an event and if if an event interferes with the outdoor center's use of the property that we they that they have the right to charge a reasonable fee if they're going to lose potential revenue loss and the town of course has the right to permit free public pedestrian access with certain conditions what does the town expose itself to in terms of potential liability I understand where you've got COFC has has to have insurance but the obviously you're going to go for the deepest pocket which would be the town so has anybody done any research or question or do you have any information you can give us yeah so Jennifer did some research on this she spoke with our insurer and they were recommending that the outdoor center increases liability limit currently is at one million and they were recommending that they increased to two million and nothing really I'm trying to think if there were other red flags I think you know this this wouldn't be any more liability than any other of the town properties really I don't mean to be nitpicking on this but I can't help it it's the lawyer in me are you are we going to have like is the town going to be actively involved in in looking and seeing and being aware that the properties being properly maintained or we relying on COFC because yeah I mean I think I'm going I think we need well yeah I think I see where you're going I mean I think well I think we need to have our eye on it but are you are you thinking that like by if we have any oversight that were no I just think you have I think you have to be vigilant I mean Ted and I can both sit there and go it's so sue happy and people sue over the stupidest yeah world over something that should have been handled by the outdoor center that we're now going to have to absorb all kinds of fees and time getting ourselves out of which we really have nothing to do with but we will in fact be held liable for yeah no I I agree I think I think I might okay I just I also think that that having the public have access to that property will will be a benefit to us in that sense I completely agree I just am worried about any undue burden on the town especially given how sue happy the society seems right well well the reason I say that is just that I think that people are fidget our our vigilant and they if there's any issues on our trails like they're they're pretty they're not hesitant to call look to call us up and let us know so in that sense like you have community the community's eyes looking out for it but we also need to look out as well my parting comment would be it only takes one person so I completely agree with what you're saying understand it and would hope that that's the case but it does only take that one person so thank you for explaining sure okay so basically insurance yes the outdoor center has to carry adequate liability insurance and that will be reviewed on an annual basis when when the annual plan gets reviewed and this agreement can't be assigned to a different party without permission and the outdoor centers responsible for obtaining all local state and federal permits as required for any activities that conducts on the property and the town agrees to be a co-applicant where that's necessary and let's see section 16 is pretty self-explanatory 17 improvements and structures this section provides that the outdoor center can use the existing structures on the property but and that they're also responsible for the maintenance of those structures and if they wish if they want to make substantial capital improvements to the property such as constructing a new building to support their recreational operations that this will be done under a separate agreement and and any agreement will spell out things like you know if either the town will agree to that they will own the structure and they will share in the cost of the improvement or if they don't agree to own the structure the outdoor center will have to remove the building or other improvement upon termination of license agreement they're also responsible for maintaining the existing structures and any future structures on the property but the town will will assist them in applying for grants and or support their grant applications to help cover the costs of any improvements structures right now what structures are are going to be on the town owned property so currently there are three structures there's two small sheds I think they both house the haunted forest in the woods and then there's the sheep barn which is on Governor Chittenden Road and is being used to house the trail maintenance snowmobiles some donkeys right now but they'll be moved and then the there's a the trail trail kiosk also oh yeah the trail key kiosk which is fairly new okay okay yeah the parking lot so the town is the house the McCullough house that's that's not going to be on town property that's not part of the deal yeah yeah that's on a separate parcel yeah the property kind of surrounds it yeah yeah is it just the McCullough property that's there or is it multiple lots multiple lots yeah it's so no and the McCullough is still on them yeah okay it's about 40 acres that they're retaining and it's it's right along the roadside and that was retained because its conservation value is fairly low and by by excluding those lands from the from the community forest we met a federal funding requirement that the property be 75% forested because that that land that was kind of carved out was not forested so it it kind of boosted up the rest of the property to meet that requirement so it could be subdivided in the future by the McCullough's and it could be yeah mm-hmm yep so let's see the parking lot so the town will maintain the parking lot and the outdoor center will be responsible for plowing we just thought that was that would be a better arrangement to have them do their own plowing and otherwise it would be it could be a recipe for conflict so lighting the the outdoor centers responsible for all costs associated with light the lighting of their trail network they currently have and the parking lot they currently have one of their trails called the night trail that's just a loop short loop I guess it's I don't know two and a half kilometers that's lighted for like snowshoeing and skiing or is that in the summer too I think it's it's just in the winter just in the winter yeah because it stays lightly enough in the summer and let's see herbicide they need the town's permission to use herbicides or insecticides on the property they need the town's permission to remove vegetation except as provided by the annual maintenance plan and the section that we previously talked about the termination the section called termination it describes a mechanism by which the license agreements can be terminated in the event that either party fails to comply with the agreement and there's a section on dispute resolution basically in the case that disputes can't be resolved through informal discussions it provides that mediation will be the next step in seeking resolution can you explain an example of how the the agreement would be terminated so let me see so say the outdoor center is not keeping up their their entity agreement so following we identify that there's a breach of the agreement I mean like I'm sorry I mean like an example an example for well say that they start cutting trails without our permission right then we would you know we would notify them you know you need to stop and also replace the trees that you cut down and they have 30 days to remedy that breach and if they don't make an effort within 30 days then I assume improper maintenance will be easy grounds yeah yeah the herbicides without telling us that's a different area kind of interesting though because it's the actual section in the licensing section 22 doesn't say it's just that they get 30 days come the data given being given notice that there was a breach they get 30 days to cure it doesn't say what if it's incurable like using herbicides or putting a trail and where it shouldn't be but I don't think that's very likely there's also a grant of additional reasonable period of time withheld any further questions just to remind everyone the board isn't being asked at some point when we get close to the closing time you will be asked so if you have any objections to any of the sections let us know sooner rather than later if you have things now let us know okay good paragraph two of the actual term on page two of the agreement I try really hard not to be anal retentive lawyer guy but I didn't change before I got here I'm noticing that it two things one is that the agreement is going to terminate on October 31st 2028 but the town has to send the licensee notice not later than April 30th 2028 providing notice of the termination date it's kind of weird that we have to do that since it's right there maybe if we just give them a copy of the contract on April 30th and say here's the contract that you signed see there's the date right there I just think that's kind of weird and I'm curious about it I think part of it is is that October is the end of their kind of summer season they do a lot of planning for the summer camps and whatnot so they want to know earlier about whether the town is going to continue this relationship or not and whether we're going to update the license whether there's going to be changes to the license with a lot of notice before the termination date that would be great I'm not sure that that's what that does though okay is that you know if they want to say you know the parties will commence negotiation you know no later than April 30th 2028 to for renewal remember that contract you signed well it's got a date in it you may have you may have picked up on that when you signed it but I'm reminding you I don't think that actually does what it what they want to do what they want is good I'm glad of it but I'm not sure that's the mechanism the other part of that though is actually more substantive and that's that the it's a the that is renewed for another 10-year term at the option of the licensee not the town provided that the town consents to such renewal which consent shall not be unreasonably withheld so long as licensee is operating the property consistently with the terms of this agreement meaning that you know as long as the licensee can come in and say look you know we've been doing this within the terms of the agreement so we're going to keep doing it under those terms and you don't you know there's be unreasonable if you to withhold your agreement to that because we're doing we're going to do what we've always done and you didn't give us notice that we were violating it so that doesn't give the town very much negotiating power and that's you know we all are wonderful and reasonable people now ten years from now we're going to be a lot older and grumpier my so my thought is that I'm concerned that that gives too much power to the licensee whoever that may be at the actual people operating in ten years from now there's going to be a negotiation it's got to have some risk for both people I don't like the position that the town would be in I don't know what other people think about that I would agree actually don't like the idea of ten years either but me too in one other thing for a yield is chapter chapter in paragraph 13 on page 8 the licensee is obligated to have general liability insurance which should protect the town that's good town's going to be an additional insured under the policy that's also good two things one is that the next sentence licensee shall agree not to terminate such coverage without at least 60 days prior written notification to the town just kind of curious about that why why would if they have to provide insurance why would they also have to tell us you're allowing them to switch switch insurers because then you do want to word it entirely differently why that's there I that's a good question I think I know why it's there because that's standard language in any time you get a certificate insurance it always says that on the bottom of the certificate of insurance but that doesn't mean it needs to be here yeah if you're allowing them to switch so that they can shop their insurance that's one thing but I would word it differently and the other the other part of that I mean the whole concept here is to indemnify and hold harmless hold the town harmless from any lawsuits and I am yeah I'm asking that we have an indemnity agreement and indemnity clause in the agreement going with your insurance questions from before saying that licensee will hold the town harmless and indemnify the town for any losses costs expenses associated with claims damages lawsuits legal mumbo-jumbo mumbo-jumbo I can just keep the one so that that's those are the things that I would ask people to see that tightened up shoot before you started we were on one other section I just wanted to see it tightened up and now I gotta find it no sorry I may catch it before you guys finish this thing don't worry about it noise email the yeah that's a good point if you think of something I still have an opportunity to make changes I don't have legal feedback obviously but my feedback is I'm I was a little surprised by this I guess just by being told that you know we're going to continue to run this or you're not going to get the property and my first inclination of okay keep the property in and so you know that's just an injured knee-jerk reaction to being told that now we have conditions because I don't remember us discussing those conditions before I mean I look at you know a caretaker of the property it's a it's a property that the town is I think using money from several I don't know how many years to purchase along with grants and you are right well we put another $200,000 into the fund this year right so so we're spending a lot of town payer money and we're being told to one of the conditions is to give it to somebody else to take care of and and the town really has no say and like Ted has pointed out astutely that we have a little power they can continue to do this forever as long as they don't go outside the terms of the agreement unless so I guess I have a general problem with the way that's done and I'm I'm not sure that was the intent when we heard all the presentations I guess a year ago or more so I guess I have to wrap my head around that first because it's kind of a surprise and from a financial perspective I just wonder what the town's people will think you know what if what if the fees for mountain biking go up I don't know triple because they want to build a night and I'm not saying they would do this right certainly I wouldn't think Jim McCulley's ran that place on a you know threadbare for many years but I heard that they have big ideas so if they want to do a lot of improvements and charge more money and towns people are like hey we bought this why am I now why does it now cost me ten dollars a day instead of six or five or four and but it's a price go down because we bought it so the town does have approval over the fees every year it does okay and and it also in the conservation easement it it says that the fees need to be reasonable so Vermont land rest of Vermont housing conservation board because they are approvers of the management plan and the management plan has to provide for the fees in it so they could say these fees are too hard for too high for you know general public usage here you're not equally providing access to all members of the general public and and last I just think of it it's it's a town property so I feels like it wouldn't be as much of it as a town owned or run property if we turn it over and I don't know if we'll have questions about I think the people this is a non-profit so but the people draw salaries right I assume at what point does the you know does the director's salary of the town owned for us become so high that we start hearing complaints well why are you know why are we having this situation where we town taxpayers bought the property and now the director of this thing is turning in it's turning into a $250,000 not that it would but I'm just you know I'm sure that's way outside the bounds of but I'm just wondering whether those questions will eventually eventually come up and then I I like the idea of five years we we say how it goes and and see what comments we get from the public as well from the standpoint if we do buy it you know what's the feedback on what we're using it for and when I I think when we first started one of my one of the comments I made when we did our you know election discussions and some of the big topics for the town it just seemed inappropriate to buy a mountain biking center is that what we're doing now or or buying the catamount family center to create a to buy a mountain biking center if it's going to stay it's kind of what I think of catamount as I think that's what people think it's a mountain biking center is that what it's going to be it's going to be a mountain biking center that the town owns or for for a fee mountain biking center that the town owns on that point if you don't mind I view catamount as so much more than a mountain biking center yeah mountain biking is probably what it's best known for right so what's kind of neat about it it's what it's not best known for because sometimes you kind of get it to yourself so I am biased I'm a neighbor I'm biased that's absolutely correct but it is it is a resource that I think is so much more than the mountain biking it's just the mountain some reason seems to be what everybody thinks of but I would argue with so much more I did find the section I wanted to see tightened up and that was termination under 22 particularly with regard to non-compliance I'd like to see that tightened up and much more definitive do you have language suggestions or hang on let's see I take probably I have more problems with the last part of the sentence which is if the breaching party commences good faith efforts to cure the alleged non-compliance and such non-compliance cannot be cured within such 30 days such non-breaching party shall have an additional reasonable period I would like all of that tightened up so that here's what it is you don't hear it here's what the remedy or result or fine is going to be I don't like extensions of time reasonable periods of time because I find that they get abused sorry I'm not just that if you will add to a little bit what Terry was saying my preference would have been the town was able to use some sort of competitive process and through that process catamount outdoor center was was chosen and then we went ahead and see if we could negotiate a license agreement with them but I think that for lack of better words that concern if you will is certainly overridden by the concern of potentially losing this sale and to be quite honest having a fair amount of faith in not only the town and ability to negotiate a license but in catamount center outdoor center the folks there the themselves and then the other I'd have to throw this out there though if the town doesn't buy it who is going to buy it they're not going to sell it and have it developed the three ideas to preserve it so their pool of buyers is relatively small I think we actually can push back a little bit harder than we have but but but isn't there a scenario where some some sort of a developer could purchase it and and and and they could divide it but they're not I don't think there's any intention of the family to consider that at this point in time and that's probably true but Jim and Lucy you know God bless them aren't going to be here forever you know I mean maybe in the short term that's true the long term maybe not I don't know I don't know what else to add and then the part about the fees again I'm biased but there isn't the marketplace going to play a role in this also it will so I know I agree with that but I'm just I'm just wondering what the yeah what the improvements would be and you know I when we were talking about this and you know I was trying to think of uses for all town members and would somebody want a pavilion there or does all this catamount outdoor family center you know management preclude us from doing any improvements to the area I'm just trying to think of what the tone that specifically said we could add our thoughts to it I mean we'd have to work with the profit because if it's right in the middle of the main trail trying to be practical great but that that is a good point and I hadn't thought of that it's it's and I'll just see what your reaction to this is is it's kind of the question of who who is in control is it the town or is it catamount or outdoor center the select board should be the guys I mean ultimately the management plan is what is guiding you know the tenure plan for the property and that is completely up to the select board to approve or change and the license is just one part of that I mean the license has to follow the management plan the management plan has to follow the easement but ultimately it's the select board that is in control of the property and from what and just to kind of speak to your concern about you know when we first presented this project what I heard from the select board from the planning commission from the conservation commission was the town doesn't have the capacity or desire to manage this property and we are fairly happy with the amount of opportunities that catamount outdoor family center has brought to our residents and to all of Chittenden County in terms of little kids camps and races and getting people outdoors and we like we want to explore how we can partner together and that was kind of how this project first started was the intent of the town to partner with catamount outdoor family center and and develop this exact agreement I don't know if there was that much of a link but I think that was discussed for sure I think maybe some people were wondering you know how it was going to be managed and wanted to see a plan or proposals and how it would be managed it seems like we have a very focused single thread forced by the owners right now so I mean we have to can you know I think Ted enjoyed you know and Jeff brought up some good points I think maybe we have to noodle on it I don't want to I don't want to because it's kind of it was kind of a surprise to me I don't want to make any knee jerk reaction call on it we're not voting on it tonight so I think we have to think about it and I don't know engineering you have this these ideas of is there a way we can think about legally this this agreement from a from a you know I was trying to explain it earlier you know this is the process standpoint yeah so you have this controls the you know what you do at the center and this is run by the select board this is in this piece of the agreement is what defines how it's being maintained and so I don't know just something that would make it clear on how we're structuring this and I mean I I hear your concerns about this being complicated in a lot of ways and I share those I mean it is complicated it's not you know it's there's a lot of pieces we have two really smart lawyers here so I mean you're getting old and gropey but at least one able to bind somebody I've been illegal I mean you could do that all day long but every legal document has loopholes that you can find ways around so that's not that's not the mechanism for doing that I mean we can get it as clear as we can get it we've received some pretty good comments here tonight as far as things to work on and as far as coming up with some better way of visually maybe describing how this is that kind of what you're getting at Theresa I was just thinking of I'm gonna go through it I only went through the letter I didn't go through the full license agreement so I need to look at that further I'm used to looking at contracts but I'm not as fast as as an attorney of course so we may be able to come up with some something to more visually describe the interrelationship to the various pieces and I agree with Joy 100% that I think we have more leverage than is implied here so so we need to move on good comments tonight thank you very much thanks thank you let's move on to the Green Mountain Masonic Center agreement I'm from the Masonic Center yes my name's John Leskowitz I'm the president of the executive board of the Masonic Center and also one of the board of trustees provides some background for the board so back in 2013 so I guess I'll back up for a second we received a letter from the board of the Green Mountain Masonic Center January asking for an exemption from property taxes so back in 2013 the town received the same request and what the town did then was approved a five-year agreement that would provide a granted funds to the Masonic Center that they would then use property taxes that was in 2013 it was a five-year agreement it's 2018 so that agreement is up for a possible renewal tonight so at the time I went back just to look at the discussion that took place in 2013 the town took this action as opposed to putting out to a public vote to exempt the property because although it met the the statute for municipal exemption for the use of the of the center did not meet the state tax exempt status that would exempt it from the education grant list so if the property was exempt voted by the people of town to be exempt from taxes the town need to make up the money to the education fund that amount last year was ten and a half thousand dollars current municipal taxes last tax year were eighteen hundred and twenty dollars I asked town assessor Bill Himan has anything changed the last five years since this was looked at at the state level and nothing had changed that would that would still apply in this circumstance the question for the board tonight would be asking if you want to renew this agreement for additional five years or terminate team is appropriate with information here I've shared it with John John shared it with the trustees they're in support of it John sir is well answering questions you have for John or for Eric what's the difference between the state exemption and the town exemption I know one piece that meets the the state statutes for the town exemption and then I'm not exactly sure of the the mechanism for the education fund I I went to the assessor for that piece but he said it when they wouldn't meet those thresholds of the status there when this was adopted five years ago the idea was to try to stay away from calling it a tax break because the select board actually can't do that and so the mechanism that was selected was to provide a grant that was roughly equivalent to the taxes and then that solved the the problem and that's what this agreement was intended to do I understand the concept of the school taxes I guess where I get low hung up is the school tax is a school issue not not a town issue actually that's not entirely true the the town is responsible for collecting those school taxes and if even if we don't collect a hundred percent of it we have to give a hundred percent to the state right so that so that in turn becomes a menace menace so I can tell my ability my ability in other words town taxes have to be used to make up the difference I shouldn't say town taxes but town it has you know town revenue so if you're interested in doing this is the legal counsel had given us an opinion on it at the time not recently we didn't ask but at the time yes the reason the reason I'm asking emotionally I'm in favor of this the issue that I'm having is that I'm again I don't want to play lawyer when I'm a select board person but there might have a nagging recollection of a supreme court decision that basically said that this that there's there's not a charitable exemption allowed in this circumstance and I'm wondering if we could delay on this but that that is why we went the grant route because it it's not it's a separate entity and I heard I mean it's it's not tied directly to taxes there's a relationship but it's not so you're essentially providing a grant to a nonprofit what was the reason it had for not allowing a tax exemption what was the select board doesn't have the authority to give it an exemption has to go town vote as I understand it but I was referring to the supreme court decision what was the there was I and again no no offense to the to the organization but my recollection was that there was a there was a decision where the lodge was not considered to be a charity or fraternal organization under the statute that applies here because of the way that the definition was applied I'm quite sure it's out there but but if we're not doing a if we're not we'd have the statute would say we'd have to put it up to a town vote anyway which we're not doing so all right now so can I ask procedurally do we actually give the organization money or do we just not collect their tax and how much but but the part I get confused and I'm sorry about this is I see the 1800 which is in the proposed agreement but I'm on the second to last paragraph in the town manager's report where it mentions an amount of ten thousand six hundred and twenty four dollars and what I want to make sure I understand is is the town in addition to the 1800 that's part of this agreement going to be liable for that amount ten thousand six hundred twenty four dollars a year to pay to the state just be granting the municipal tax portion okay the organization would pay the education property you're you understand this that's the operating principle we've been working towards the last five years then that I did not understand and I appreciate the clarification it also very much helps my decision I mean then the number has changed over the last five years but what you're using today is that's correct we pay that a school tax amount okay so if you're casual with pursuing this tonight there is a motion suggested I'd move to authorize the town manager to sign to grant agreement between the town and the Green Mountain Masonic Center for a term starting July 1, 2018 in ending August 1, 2022. Is there a discussion or a motion? So can I ask just what are the rules for granting tax exemption you know this basically I know you're doing a grant but essentially what you're doing is giving a tax exemption right I mean that's essentially at the end of the day what you're doing right I mean you've you've mechanically done it differently to go around a vote but what are what are our rules for doing that and how do we decide what organizations get those things in which do not so can you help us understand what those rules are is it just that somebody comes in like John from a good organization and says hey I want you guys to cut my tax bill and I'm just running 32 VSA 3840 first and then keep going from there because the law is 32 VSA 3840 which is mentioned in the managers but I well but I'm trying to go back to what Ted said that the reason we're doing the grant is because there's something somebody decided that that organization isn't suitable for this particular law so is there I could understand your question I know there are tax other taxic there are tax exempt entities in Williston some of those are specifically addressed by state statutes so they automatically are tax exempt those that are not specifically taxed exempt by state statute how did they get there for lack of better words tax exempt status from the town would anybody know and the answer maybe there are not yeah sorry I didn't mean I'm not I didn't ask that to stump anybody I just it does seem like a legitimate question yeah I'm just trying to understand because churches I think maybe places of worship have some tax exempt by law status I can't say it doesn't address that question but there are other organizations that the town has given grants to in the past so this is not the only one that it gives a grant to so it would be on a case-by-case basis but that doesn't doesn't answer the broader question about what's the how do we decide right other than yeah you know how do we make that decision is there are there any rules were that are driving us or guiding us or I guess the answer to that is yes the state will statutes is what guides us because if the state statutes say it's not exempt then that puts the town at risk for declaring exemption because then it's going to have to pay the school side of those taxes and in those cases we've tried to avoid that we don't want to be in the position of having to pay the state education taxes for an entity just because we want to grant them a municipal right right so that practice has been to find other ways if the board wants to do that of trying to help that organization out they're generally not a lot of those types of situations but there have been some others and I'd have to spend a lot of time researching it because I just don't recall what they were I can give you an example of another lodge in Jericho Vermont that went through a similar process through the town vote process the town select board there actually decided that they would put up their tax exemption for vote with the understanding that the school tax would increase for the general population to offset the entire tax abatement for for that property and that was put up for the for vote and it was actually passed but the difference was it involved a lot less money it was on the order of $2,500 for the entire bill so we're talking closer to 14,000 which was probably not as an easy figure to live with so the process does work but I don't know if that has to do with Jericho rules or state rules but it is how would have to fall yeah right state statute right now and I'm wondering is there is there a time crunch on this I think June right because so I think you the board has some time I would ask if we could if we could get legal opinion I just that one specifically on which issue well if yeah I'm pausing because they're two distinct issues and I'm not sure one one is does the is it a lodge is that the proper term well in this case we're actually a licensed business entity so we're called the Green Mountain Masonic Center because there are several lodges that meet in that building so it's in the case I mentioned to you and Jericho was a much smaller facility and it was a single launch which is why the difference in the dollar amounts were talking about as well this isn't related to that necessarily but the town rents space from them as well on occasion for senior programs sorry can you say that the town does what would this we rent space from them for our senior some of our senior programs I guess what I'm wondering is if if the if the entity does not qualify as a charity or fraternal organization relative to the tax exemption statute are we legally allowed to give them a grant to pay their taxes and as I think about it we're talking about about a thousand dollars two thousand eighteen hundred that's that's the legal question but that as a policy question sir I'm wondering if you can beef up with what what the what the entity does sure so yeah we're a nonprofit organization we own the the building that is behind where CVS is and primarily the building main purpose of building is to promote different Masonic activities related to Masonic lodges and appended bodies and so there are two Masonic lodges that meet there as well as a Eastern star and York right and Scottish right and they all have similar teachings the the main premise of the organization is to improve a person's life quality and to improve their and one of the tenants of doing that is that community services that so we are not a philanthropy we do not collect money and then redistributed but in part of improving people's moral character working with the community as part of the the tenants of that organization so there are those bodies as well but since we do have a facility that is not used 24 hours a day we actually allow the Cub Scouts to meet in a facility we have the Williston seniors meeting in our facility we know the Williston food shop has contracted out to use our facility for a food demonstration at some point later in the year and any other organization that has non-profit motives we would also consider in most cases we just ask for a contribution and we don't call it a rent because it's just really to offset the cleaning and utility expenses associated with the use of the facility so and we have no employees we don't run any business out of the organization no products leave there so it's all you know a non-profit entity is that enough for him yeah it is for me procedurally we're not going to vote on the motion a motion to table table so moved second that's not an available issue all those in favor of tabling the issue for tonight say aye aye opposed okay we'll reconsider the set okay thank you moving on to the number of random understanding with the Howard sir yes that's mine this is a next step in the process of having counselors work with our police department in addressing various issues that come up during the course of their day that really are more suitably addressed by people with counseling background rather than law enforcement and you recall that there are four counselors that are being hired by the Howard Center and actually have been hired the money is in the budget for this and these four counselors will be providing service to six communities and so this agreement is intended to implement the program that's already underway regarding this the only question I had is I noticed that they require space be provided I assume in the police station yes that's yes we already have it set up hey the idea is that they won't actually be using it very often but they do need a place to sit with a computer and a telephone and then the idea is they'll be out in the field more than they'll be at the desk but they there are times when you need to access still phone and the computer for me if here is there more discussion motion as an order I moved to authorize the time manager to sign a memorandum of understanding with the Howard Center for the development and operation of the community outreach program second discussion motion hearing none no it's in favor of the motion the opposed move on to liquor license applications renewals I've got this one so this is the annual liquor license renewals for for the town in your packet you have a list of all of the licenses submitted to the clerk's office they've been reviewed by staff there's been no recent violations of these licenses boards who approve them for the next year which starts on May the 1st so there's no changes to the status the same license same and no like you said no violations the violations I believe one place may have not submitted for this year so they didn't want to do service they're all in oh I don't think it was the garden supply store yeah a garden garden avid decided to forego a license this year there's a new restaurant to opening up that'll be coming in a little bit later I'm sure I think it's pizza yeah all that yeah which is in order if there's no more questions I'd move to approve the liquor license applications everything it's the thing where we have to sign now do it anymore I'm delegated that to the town clerk then I wholeheartedly well it's in favor of the motion say hi hi moving on to local emergency operations plan for 2018 and this is a another housekeeping item on those annual things for the board to approve this is our emergency management plan at least there's emergency contacts people who run emergency shelters kind of where our vulnerable populations would be day-to-day care centers that type of thing it's looked to be approved by May the 1st every year fire chief carried the ball in this just had some minor updates over the last year so the promotion from the board to approve the plan chief more and recommends approval under the select board chair person this you would eliminate my work call-of-a-number I thought we did that you should have done that yeah try again this year any questions for Rick I regarded me emergency operations sorry one minor thing it's not going to affect my vote that's for sure I'm on the in the memo the 1 2 3 4 5th paragraph down the last sentence which reads once adopted the leop must be signed by a select board member the town manager or mayor certifying that they have taken at a minimum and then these two ISC trainings you have but then I make my question is answered I have a certificate on my wall this day verify that yeah now is he also can pushing that we have a mayor form of government no they for the questions for your eye the motions in order to approve the 2018 local emergency operations plan very second discussion of motion if not all those in favor of the motion say aye aye opposed moving on to the redetermination request in regard to the common level of appraisal we did get so the board authorized an appeal of the determination initial determination by the state and their initial determination was the CLA would be 95.26% and staff looked at this and found that see awfully low given that we fairly recently did a reappraisal and all our numbers show that is still pretty accurate in terms of market value of sales so we did file appeal and lo and behold the state agreed with us so they raised it up to just under 98% 97.92% and this has been reviewed by our assessor and listeners and they recommend that the board accept this if the board doesn't accept it then a hearing will be held shortly and we don't have any arguments at this point because they kind of agreed with our position but so this this is the number we were looking at or we had some way to figure out that this is where we should land if anything it's a little bit higher than most about any questions for record regarding this and the coefficient of dispersion is not an issue goodness no that's really no okay anything under 10% I think generally okay more questions emotions in order move to accept the revised common level of appraisal set 97.92% for fiscal year 2019 and authorize the chair to select for a design stipulation second motion say aye aye they oppose moving on to the stormwater program agreement amendment Rick is that you know that's there it's okay we're tag-teaming this is something from the regional planning commission it's an amendment minor amendment to inter municipal MS for stormwater program agreement make it aligned with state law the current agreement precludes the RPC from charging for indirect costs incurred in this program under state law regional planning commission cannot use municipal funds or grants to cover costs and providing services under a service agreement like this is an intermissible service agreement because the original agreement precluded charging for indirect associate costs the RPC has been subsidizing that subsidizing this with with other funds so this is asking to authorize this amendments this agreement to come in compliance with state law memo from Charlie Baker the RPC executive director who's included in the packet here they're asking every town that's a part of this agreement to approve this amendments make it effective on July 1st Eric I got either one I have to admit that this issue went over my head so I'm going to rely on your opinion that it's it's in the town's best interest to agree to this yep I would say so we want to be in compliance with state law any further questions motion again as an order I'd move to authorize the town manager to sign Chittenden County M5 for stormwater program is amended with an effective day of July 1 2018 for excuse me second a discussion of motion all those in favor of motion say aye aye all right moving on to the Chittenden County Public Safety Authority agreement and this was made since I was on the survey joint survey committee I should probably follow through on this stage of it this really is a follow-through on what was approved by the voters of Wilson we asked the voters to consider whether or not Wilson should join the public safety authority and their favor so this is the agreement that I previously shared with the board several meetings where we talked about this agreement in length just looking for authorization finalized authorization and if I remember correctly you gave a real you gave a synopsis at town meeting and the information me it does not commit us to joining it it only well it commits us to be being a member of the authority it does not commit us to receiving any service or paying for any sorry that's a separate decision that the board will have it in the future it may be sooner than we think because remember our fire dispatch is done by the town of Shelburne this now gives us an option that we didn't have before so we'll have to evaluate that as soon as things get up and running but I imagine it's probably going to be at least a year maybe more before things are fully operational so how many years now are we is it three years we have to take action or or basically do something or you're out right basically yeah there's there is three years I don't recall exactly it wasn't very long so yeah I think so too Terry so you know one of the things as I saw the in red all the election results from all the towns is it Shelburne and Essex is that well Essex didn't vote on it Essex didn't vote but for reason obviously and Shelburne voted against it is that it's correct and there was an awful lot of and hopefully we have this discussion at some point here about I think we have heard all the pros side what are the consides why would the I was very surprised that the dispatchers themselves were picketing against it because I thought when we at least early on I thought we heard that and maybe this isn't contractual yet but I thought we heard that the dispatchers would get first right a refusal and this was really something to better their careers because you're going to give them more opportunity for upward movement than they have today because they're in such small pools in each one of these stations so why would they be so up in arms because just moving from Colchester to they're losing losing positions well not necessarily sorry but here's here's why they know that so first of all the dispatches were posed at this first stage for reasons I don't fully understand because this first up doesn't commit right but it starts the by rolling and usually when these balls start rolling they don't stop what they were arguing is they didn't have details well the operational details well of course that's not possible until you form an organization and the towns were in the awkward position of the unions wanted to negotiate now the details we can't negotiate until you have an entity and there's there's so there's no change of status from a union perspective for these employees or does this regional dispatch change their I don't know their status in any way or their negotiating power or it will change if there is a regional dispatch that's up and running because then the employees of that will not longer be employees of individual municipalities and they will have to decide whether or not they want to unionize and if they do then they will have to decide and negotiate what their benefits are and they wanted that up front because they wanted assurances to know where it's yeah in today's environment I could understand there's another element to there are some people who enjoy working for their current employer and this will mean that they may not be able to do that okay those are some of the reasons okay that's good to know I just I was I was actually just surprised I was surprised at Shelburne who has a center voted against it so it so in effect will that center continue to run as it is today doesn't well it'll continue to run whether or not all the people or agency they currently serve stay with them as a different matter I suspect most will because most many of the agencies they serve are actually outside of Chittenden County there are some inside Chittenden County a Wilson being one I think they also do some police dispatching for Hinesburg anyway Wilson is probably the largest account that may or may not move we'll have to see and you know that'll be a point to evaluate in the future but that's a whole different step in the process questions for Rick motion again as in order I'd move to authorize the town manager to sign the agreement to create the Chittenden County Public Safety Authority honor after April 6th given the majority of the voters approved the valid item as certified by the town clerk on town meeting day 2018 second discussion of the motion all those in favor of the motion say aye I have a question before that the vote we just took did we have to we have to make that motion didn't the town vote for it and so that's just the way it is I was torn on that one but I I felt that it would be best to have the slide forward weigh in on it was curious like if we said no after the time voted for it I mean do we do we get impeached I was wondering this but it never came up just wondering how much power I have disregard town meeting votes and just do you know whatever I wasn't the only manager who was wondering on this because they you know I've been in touch with all the other man and they were all doing the same thing I was curious thank you so manager's report I had several things to talk about here under the written report the first item is the financial report we are about 66% through the year and expenditures are slightly higher than that but that's because some of the items like debt service or 80% or 100% I'm sorry let's see line is up correctly well environments are fun we paid 100% debt service 80% transfer so some of those items 100% and therefore it throws off the percentage a little bit but I think overall we're well within budget some of the departments like police are only at 57% again that's because of the problem we've had with not being able to fill positions that I know the chief is aggressively working to fill those and in fact I interviewed someone today for one of the positions good so he is making progress and I'm trying to think there's any other things where we're still we have another on the revenue side rooms and meals we still have another couple of payments to be made on that but as you saw from our last report we're probably gonna be over more revenue than we budgeted for that line item when someone mentioned how we're doing on the highway winners not over yet well I should say for the winter season isn't over winner may be over that winter season is not necessarily over but I think we're overall we're gonna be okay for the air in the highway department the we found that the our new building for holding sand came in handy because some communities were struggling to keep up their stores of salt this year I'm sorry is it Sam but and we were not having a problem because we have adequate storage in our new building so I'll be happy to answer any questions if there any on that report remind me what the fiscal when's the fiscal year over June 30th right moving along here the next time I wanted to touch on is the town attorney search I think I may have mentioned before that Joe Fallon who is even counsel the town for more than 20 years is retiring at the end of this calendar year and so I would like to set up a process for selecting a replacement and what I've suggested is that we engage a panel of three individuals one being a select board member second person would be the director of public works because of all our department heads on general legal matters he has the most contact with legal counsel and the final person would be me because I also have quite a bit of contact this is just for general legal issues that labor relations is handled by a different legal counsel and we also use a different attorney for zoning related issues so this is just for general a lot of times it has to do with property sales property purchases rights away but there are some other things tax appeals sometimes we use this legal counsel for those kinds of things and Ted has agreed to serve on this committee and being an attorney I thought he'd be bring a good perspective to the process so unless there's any objections we will proceed with that process and bring back the recommendation to the select board at some point before the end of the calendar year moving along hearing no objections first constable is a position that's elected and this past election no one ran for the opening and there were no insufficient write-in votes so the position currently is unfilled we do have someone who recently submitted an application to the service constable and so we have not advertised for that position so the question is should we go through the normal application process given the elected position we just wondering because people had an opportunity back in January to submit a petition for this and didn't so but we'll be happy to do that once and they're still you know we're not proposing any people tonight so we still have if someone wants to get application we can still accept that it's not an issue but the question is do we do we go through the the full notification process two things what what are the duties of the town can do essentially a serving papers okay law enforcement like a sheriff sort of but have no law okay so like like a sheriff serving and okay and to when you when when when somebody doesn't run for an office the board has the ability to just to point somebody yes okay this is a position that isn't critical they've been years where it hasn't filled just because no one ran and no one applauded so and we didn't really advertise it it's but in this case someone decided they were interested in this isn't the first time this has happened either we one time it was open and someone said hey I'd like to be constable so the board interviewed him and appointed that person but that person lost interest after a term or two and do they get paid do they get paid they can charge they can charge for the people they're serving the papers for their town agent I was elected town agent Richmond that's my first municipal I thought it was like sort of James Bond type thing but it turned out just waiting for somebody to give you legal papers so the question is do we want to advertise it if you don't mind I think the question is do we want to fill it and then well our people that are interested so yes so now it becomes a matter do you just take what you have or do you publicly make notice of it in case it's anybody else just because people are interested doesn't convince me that we ought to have who town constable how does the work get done it's just somebody will contact them and say here that summons and complaint to serve on Joe Schmoe and they go out and do it and they fill out a return of service saying under oath that they actually gave the person the papers I'm sorry that would be the constable's job but what happens when we don't have one how does that the sheriff does it still not a lot of money but I think it's fine no there's no law enforcement yeah then if we are going to have it then I think we we do need that you know have our ties I was I was going to I was actually going to disagree so I was going to say no please do but just just a discussion I was going to say it was up for an election there were a bunch of right ends but nobody actually got I was in there counting them nobody actually got very many maybe a couple a hand if even a handful if somebody's volunteering why not why not just we should open up the process anyway because I think they could do that okay that's fair that's fair or if the person who volunteered wrote down his name because he wanted to and so we have to opt this other people might have done the same thing said I'm putting my name down hopefully other people put my name open it up and then interview and okay right well moving along here I just want to share with you a nice little thank you that I got from Bill White yes I have some we had a second another flood this one was much much much smaller caused by human error involved the fire department on the second floor someone left water running in the bucket started the process they were there and then a fire call came in not much funny but you know yes so what happened when so there there was some damage but they were on it actually even before the people who went on the call got back from the call it was already being addressed and so it's it's not a huge amount of damage but you know the important thing is they they got to it right away they're drying it out and and they have to pull up some floor tiles and some ceiling tiles need to be replaced nuts about it so I would actually like to see it and also like I like Ted's idea of seeing one of the municipal things you know infrastructures we support and we talked about water or sewer it would be cool to see that at some point so I just don't want to forget that for the you may want to do it in the spring before well because it could get hot up there but yes we can arrange that it's a neat setup I got a tour about a month ago yeah it's a little bit of a hike but I'm sure the bicycle to wind the clock yeah oh just to get out there yeah I have to admit I want to see the bucket of rocks I guess it's okay moving along here the final thing on our manager report is a mixed feelings but I have a letter of resignation from Ken bellovo he is well he's retiring the end of or I'm sorry early August so we have a little bit of time but he's announcing that tonight to the Planning Commission yeah here's this letter we'll have an opening here to fill is he retiring as he moving or is he staying he lives in Waterbury he's staying he's been here ten years and that's all I have for this evening other business before we go into executive session hearing no other business then the motion would be in order to go into executive session for the performance evaluation of the manager so moved any discussion motion all those in favor of motion say aye aye any opposed we will now an executive session will move downstairs to conduct that