 So I'm going to get on with tonight's library announcements. This is part of our first story events, which is Women's History Month. You know, we like to do all those months at the library. And I'm going to say since we just came off of Black History Month and rolling into Women's History Month, I have met the most amazing women, like renaissance women of today. So I was thinking about like people being specialty, like I'm honing in on this one thing. No, let's do it all. Everything you want to do, just do it. So I've met some amazing women and tonight I'm sure is no exception. So we are here to talk to Riso Culbertson, who is the owner of Papa Lama and a small, this is a small business spotlight as well. So with these months, different librarians from SFPL shoot me program ideas. So this one comes from our small business library. And if you didn't know, San Francisco has a small business center and this helps entrepreneurs get material on how to plan, finance, organize, operate, and market your small business. So we're going to talk about small business tonight with Riso, as well as do a craft and be creative. And like I said, this is part of her Story Month. So we got a lot of her story events coming up. We definitely want to welcome you to the unceded, let you know that we occupy the unceded ancestral homeland of the Rome Mutu Sholoni tribal people, who are the original inhabitants of the San Francisco Peninsula. We recognize that we benefit from living and working on their traditional homeland. And as uninvited guests, we affirm their sovereign rights as First Peoples and wish to pair our respects to the ancestors, elders, and community members of the Rome Mutu Sholoni. And I'm going to stick a link in for a reading resource about First Peoples and particularly in the Bay Area. Great websites that you can learn about, reading lists that you can read about, and maybe even donate to. We have a bi-monthly read at SFPL that encourages all of San Francisco to read the same book, same time. We're celebrating the amazing Natalie Diaz for her poetry. She's a Pulitzer Prize winner and she's going to be at our library. Amazing. And post-colonial love poem in convo with Michelle Cruz Gonzalez, educator, scholar, ex punk rock drummer. It's going to be a great night. So come check that out Tuesday, the 26th of April. And I'm going to breeze through some of her story events. I have two of the same slide and they both have the wrong typo on it. It's Wednesday, March 9th, 7 p.m. We have our partners at the National Park System, our soulmates of the natural world film screening. And I'm going to breeze through these just who misses 20th Street Cafe. I do. The best butterscotch in all of San Francisco. Oh, butterscotch drink. I loved it. But she's going to come in, talk about what I was like to own a small business in San Francisco and her amazing cookbook. So come check that out. And all right, that's it. It's almost done with me talking. We're going to turn it over. But I do want to introduce our guest tonight. Risa Culbertson is an artist, owner and chief creative behind Papa Lama. Learn about tonight. We're going to learn about her small business journey, the artwork behind the Papa Lama. And we're going to do our project. So Risa is a multimedia artist illustrator and owns Papa Lama, which is a play full stationary company based in San Francisco, specializing in wacky, whimsical and colorful work meant to brighten up the gloomiest of days. Risa is constantly experimenting with a wide variety of mediums, including paper art, felting, sculpting, illustration, stop motion media, and animation. Her work is all about being playful as a way to recharge the creative spirit and find ways to stay connected to those we love. And the library is all about that. Trust me, we are missing everyone and gathering. And we definitely know the power of crafting and meditating and zoning out and being and doing it together. So we're, thank you, Risa, for being here tonight and sharing that with us. And last thing. Oh yeah, Risa also majored in business entrepreneurship from California State University Fullerton. So she meets all the criteria for tonight, the Renaissance woman. All right, passing it over. I'm doing it done. Risa, take it away. Thank you, Risa. I appreciate it. Hi, friends. How are you? Thank you so much for coming. I love seeing your faces. This is so nice. It's so much better than just kind of seeing my face and, you know, talking to the to the void. This is a conversation. I'm here for the conversations. So we're going to do a little arts and crafts, but a little bit about me. I am an artist. I'm living here in San Francisco. I have my stationery line called Papa Llama. But I'm also a working artist. I do a lot of fiber arts, paper arts. I have a few things in some galleries right now. And, you know, COVID really switched things up a bit. I have a business degree with concentration in entrepreneurship. I'm obsessed with small businesses. And I love that sort of... I feel like business school is such a good place for artists to be. And I think some business people should be going to art school and taking some art classes, too. So, like, I feel like there's so much that we have to learn from each other. And we need to, like, start just kind of bridging that gap. So, like, constantly, like, trying to get my art friends to take business classes and, you know, trying to get my non-artist friends to do some, you know, easy, like, crafts, introduce them into the world of being crafty. So I'm here to talk about, you know, if you are interested in a creative business, if you're an artist and you want to kind of get started with something, if you're not an artist and you just want to start something, I'm here to talk about all the things. Also, like, there is a unique experience having a creative business because, you know, if you have a creative block and you have a creative business, you know, it gets complicated. So I've definitely worked through my moments of being really, you know, sad and, you know, not feeling very inspired. And the little craft that we're going to do today is an exercise in kind of shaking things out. This is something for anyone. So if you're into art, if you feel like you're very comfortable with drawing, this is a great exercise. If you, like, have not picked up a pen and paper for a while, this is also a great exercise. So should we start our craft project or little drawing practice? Is everyone ready? Okay, so this is going to be a two-part thing. So the first part, all you need is a pen and some paper. And then the second part is going to be kind of playing around with paper. So I have some, you know, colorful paper and I have some scrap, you know, scrap paper that was going to throw away. And then you'll need a glue stick or any sort of glue thing and some scissors. So if you want to grab those and then let's get together. So the drawing exercise that we're doing today is something called continuous line drawing. And you might be familiar with this. It is the process of drawing something without letting your pencil off the paper. So this is, for me, I get a lot of anxiety doing, like, the first step in anything. Like, any big project I had a show, you know, a couple of months back and like that first piece, I was just pacing around trying to like, okay, I'm going to, okay, I'm going to do this today. Today I'm going to do that first step that I need to do in order to get, you know, all of my pieces done. And I just get so anxious. And then I'm just like pacing around the apartment, go outside, you know, I'm looking in the fridge to see like what sort of snacks I can eat. Just whatever I can do to like procrastinate or not take that first step. And for me, this is like something that I use pretty regularly. And it's just to kind of like get that first step out of the way, like get that motion happening. Because once you take that like first motion, the first step is done. Now you just have to take the second step, but it's not as hard. And it feels just a little bit easier to take that step. So that's kind of like the thing that I really want people to, you know, like just get inspired if you want to start a business, if you want to start a project, if you want to learn something new, you know, like just get something out of the way. It doesn't have to be the same steps towards one thing. You can take your first step somewhere else and then take your second step elsewhere. I don't know if that makes sense, but we're going to be doing some drawing. So because I get very anxious about first steps, continuous line drawing, that's my like number one go to. And then I also will overthink, you know, what to draw. I have to like sit there. I'm just like, I don't know. Should I draw a landscape? Should I draw like monsters? Should I draw something? And I just pick whatever is in front of me. Continuous line drawing, pick something that's in front of you. For me, what's in front of you? Can you guys hold up anything? Whatever it is that's in front of you that you're going to draw. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. For me, it's the glue stick. Let's get started. Let me move this. See if we can see this. Beautiful. Does that look okay? Can you see that? See it. Woohoo. Okay. So I'm going to be doing this, but it's going to be upside down. So you have to use your imagination. I'm going to do one like test try just to show you, you know, the process. And then I am going to do my actual glue stick drawing. Let's put it over here. Okay. So I'm going to just draw this cup here just to show you. And there's nothing wrong with anything. This is just like a no mistakes sort of thing. Do you see how I'm just like not letting my pen off of the paper? And if you get stuck, just kind of wiggle around and see like what other shapes you can do. And I also like to tell people like this is like a no judgment sort of space. So once you do your drawing, you have to be nice to yourself. You can't be like, this is a terrible drawing. It's not perfect. It's not supposed to be perfect. So you have to like, you know, be a little kind to yourself. And sometimes it turns out super cool and sometimes it doesn't. And you have to be okay with it. So did everyone try it? Everyone see that? Just, you know, just kind of go go with it. If you get stuck somewhere, then, you know, turn back around, make a shape. All right, I'm doing this for real. Is everyone ready? Okay, it's going to get wacky here. All right, so I'm doing my glue stick. Everyone's going to be a little different. But I'm going to put this here in case anyone wants to draw the same thing as me. Okay, here we go. It's kind of like a fun adventure because once you start, you don't really know where you're going to go. And you don't really know where you're going to end up. All these little textures and stuff are really kind of fun to play with. Oh, all right. And then once I, if I'm trying to get from like the top to the bottom, I like to pretend that it's, I can see through it. And like, oh, this is like the bottom of it. If I could see through it, it'd be like this. And then there's a couple more ridges. Like that. And then, oh geez, I got to do the writing on here. Does everyone hang in there? Whoa. Feels very quiet. Everyone's in the zone. Yes, good, good, good. Sometimes I like to even put like some highlights. Like, oh, maybe this would be like a little light source here. And then this is mine. Whenever you're all ready, go ahead and share that. Oh, I love it. That's so good. Good job. Good job. Whoa. Oh, cool. Oh, you all are doing so good. This is so fun. Sometimes I like to do faces too. I mean, now I'm just like, but see, like I just took that first step and now I'm like, okay, I'm going to make a face. I'm going to, you know, what else, what else is around? Like, is anyone feeling that? Like, oh, like, now I did this, I can kind of fill the whole page with a bunch of squiggles and see, see what happens. And that's why for me, like this exercise is really fun for me because I can, you know, start getting inspired, even though maybe before this, I wasn't thinking I would be drawing so much. Got a little face there. So these are my little drawings. I'm sorry, I took that away for anyone who was using that. How's everyone feeling? Good, good, good. Play around with that a little bit more, or when we're going to start doing our second part, which is playing with paper because I'm a multimedia artist. It means I can't stick to one thing and I love playing around with all sorts of different mediums. And for me, this exercise, this two-part exercise is something with like, I get to shift my perspective. So I'm going to take my paper, and I'm going to basically mimic or, you know, create this thing that I'm, you know, my model and recreate it out of paper. So for me, I just like to chop up a bunch of paper and then play around with the shapes and colors. So start chopping, pick something that you can use the same thing that you used before for your continuous line drawing, or you can use something else that's around. I'm going to stick with this because I kind of want to show you what it looks like to have two things next to each other. All right, I'm going to start chopping. Let me know if you all are ready for chopping. And I'm not into perfection. I kind of like the, you can make it refined if you want, but there's something really fun for me to take shapes that, you know, like normally, you know, wouldn't be so perfect. And then, and then just play around with it. So that's like very basic shape happening there. And then playing around with different tones and colors. So I'm going to try and like recreate this little highlight that I did there. For me, the reason why I love kind of playing around with all sorts of different mediums is I really like to, you know, have a best way of telling a story. So if I have an idea in mind and I feel like the best way to tell that story is through drawing or paper arts or doing a little stop motion, you know, I feel like I have all of these different avenues. And then you say, you're talking about, you know, Renaissance women and, you know, the sort of like do it all. Like if you want to do it all, do it all. And I agree 100% because there's just like so much fun stuff to explore. And I feel like you just kind of discover so much about yourself and your abilities and build up that confidence as you kind of try, try stuff. So I'm trying to make these little squiggle shapes here. And the thing I love about paper is that, okay, so I was originally cutting out these little like kind of fingernail pieces for here. But like, don't forget about the scraps because the scraps can be like really super good shapes too. And so I might put that up there. And for me, like paper and these types of little scraps and stuff makes me just see things in a little bit different perspective. I like to lay things out first before I start gluing them down too. How's everyone doing? Yeah, good, good, good. They're in the zone. I'm in the zone. Excellent. I'm not going to let anyone sit in the waiting room. Yes, yes, thank you. Risa, how did you know you wanted to be an artist? Like did you know like when you were four, five? Yeah, when I was very, very little and I was always kind of playing around with the things that I still play around with now. I used to like cut out a bunch of stuff out of origami paper and, you know, make a bunch of stuff with paper and then I was constantly sewing. My mom taught me how to do all that stuff. So it's something that got passed down from my grandmother to my mom to me. So it was just like, yeah, ever since I was a kid, I was expressing myself through art. And so that's good. You saw your family was creative, too. Your mom was creative. Yeah, so my mom's a potter. She's a quilter. My dad was a kind of a mad scientist of sorts. So he was always kind of, you know, playing with science and, you know, kind of building stuff. So I got to kind of merge those two things. I like, I like building things, but in a very like analog sort of way. I'm going to show you this little thing that I did. But it's just like a little, you know, it's like mechanics in a very like, you know, it was all made out of cardboard. But I like doing stuff like this where it's like taking art and then kind of like the side of my dad where he was trying to figure out how to make things work. Were they small business owners? They were not. No, they just enjoyed, enjoyed playing in that sort of way and expressing themselves. Start gluing stuff down if you feel like it. You can always, you know, take things apart and, oh, I could do like a deconstructed glue stick abstract over there. I'm all for playing too. I feel like a lot of, a lot of us kind of don't, don't allow ourselves to play and be goofy and, you know, make, make silly little things. And I think it's just so good for the soul and, you know, makes you kind of see things differently, helps you problem solve. I think more grownups should play. We talk a lot about steam in the library or steam. We actually talk about stem seems more and I always like flip the A back in. Because this I think is so important too. What do you, how did you decide to become a small business owner? Is that also a part of the dream? I think I was always kind of obsessed with trying to figure out how to make a living doing creative work. When I was a kid, like in high school, I used to sew all of my clothing. And it was in the 90s. So like I used to make these jackets with the fur, you know, with the fur collar. And I remember having like drawing out a catalog that people can order, you know, like custom made coats for like very cheap. My price points were very good for, for the customers. But, you know, learning about how much time it took to create these things, like materials, you know, my mom really helped me out quite a bit on the sewing. But I was always obsessed, always obsessed with like how do you kind of bring the things that you love to create to other people so that they can also enjoy it too. And pay you. And pay me. Yeah, absolutely. We were going to be talking about that before we opened, but, you know, I know a lot of artists and sometimes getting paid is not their strong suit, right? Like because it's a whole other level. Yes, yes. Not the level of creativity all the time. Of course. Yeah. And I feel like no, you know, I don't know. No one teaches you that sort of, you know, very important information on like how do you price your work when, you know, you're kind of thinking about what you're deciding, like how much you're worth and it really varies, you know, it really varies what your pieces will cost and how much labor that, you know, how much time it takes and which skill it takes. It's not straightforward. And I think it can be really intimidating for those really intimidating for me. Like I think it's really intimidating until you start getting out there and and being like, yeah, you need to pay me. And the more confidence that you get to your like, I'm worth this much. Like, you know, and, and I think that just kind of comes with just trying and being sad that you should have gotten paid more or, you know, like working with clients and, and realizing like, oh, I needed to have a better contract so that if something happens, then, you know, I can still protect myself. Yes. Yes. Yes, to contracts. Definitely things they don't teach you about. Yep, yep. Um, I see Carol. It was so engrossed in the craft. She burned her quinoa. Oh, no, I'm so sorry to you. I call that a success. You're, you're in it. You're in your art, you know, that's all good. But I'm glad that you're, it wasn't worse than just burning the quinoa. So I also see that you teach on what's that site. Oh, creative bug. Yes. I wish the library would get like a subscription to that. I think the patrons would love it. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. So I just released my newest video. So I have two on there right now. They're both daily challenges. So that's 30 days every day. You're, you're learning a new lesson. The one that I just put out is about Procreate 101. It's on the iPad. It's a drawing app on iPad. And then I also have another one, which is exploring mixed media. So for that, I'm taking basically, you know, something similar like this, but we're doing all sorts of, you know, we're doing three different ways of creating. And so every day we're taking something, you know, in a new medium, trying it out, trying it out, and then repeating it every three times. So by the end of it, you just get this like beautiful book of all sorts of textures and colors and techniques. I'm, I'm a fan of, of Creative Bug. You've got cool crosses there. They also do a lot of like free trials and stuff too, if you want to. Yeah, I saw it on there. Yeah, I don't know what's going on right now. I was going to say, we used to, we still do have, I am going to embarrass myself. I think we do have Linda, but it might be called something different. Like, Oh, yeah. LinkedIn learning or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the library is out there. Help me out. And I think they do teach procreate, procreate lesson on there. Awesome. Yeah, there's so many fun tools. I think there is a library out there in Santa Clara County. Might have crafts, but that's their thing. Cool. I mean, man, the library is just such a good resource for so many things. It's like, if you want to do anything, like check the library first and see, you know, what, what sorts of programs and classes are happening first. Let's see. Linda is LinkedIn learning. Thank you. Yay. I'm going to find a link to that as soon as I get out of this zone. But Michelle asks, do you remember what the first piece of art was you got paid for? And also what stationery was your first sold piece? My first sold piece. Okay. So my first sold piece of art was I 100% remember it was a painting. It was mixed media. So it was paint with, with using paper over like almost like a collage piece. And I remember when someone said that they wanted to buy it. And my mind was just blown. I was like, you want to buy this? Like, what? And it was, it was just, it felt so nice to, you know, kind of just know that someone wants this in their home so much that they would be willing to give me money for this. It was like, you know, I was, I was much, much younger. And it just like was made it, I don't know, maybe realize like, oh, like people would buy stuff. You know, like I could make things and have people buy it. And like, that's, that's a thing that, that could happen for me. Like it's not something that only these like famous artists and, you know, like people in galleries or people in all these different shows and stuff. Like it's much more accessible. And I think that's kind of what, what that experience taught me. But and then stationery wise was, so my first card was a card that said, you're a big old jar of awesome sauce. And it was something that was inspired by a friend of mine. And I was, I just thought it would be fun. So I created it with linoleum blocks and my mom's old woodworking tools. And the shop that I was working at, they are like, oh, let's just, you know, put this out. And they sold out. And I think like, yeah, just having people like pick them up and interact and, you know, like have, have a good time with it was, was a super special. Because for me, letter writing correspondence has always been the huge part of my life. And a really great way to like connect with people and in a really unique sort of way. So, yeah, to have someone pick that up too. And I was like, oh, wow, you're like also enjoying this. Like it just makes me feel like so connected with people. Even though I'm an introvert and it's hard for me to go outside. Yeah, that's interesting too, being a business owner. I mean, you have to be. Does anyone else help there have a question? Or I'll just ramblin with Risa. Oh, that could be a show. Yeah. Ramblin. Ramblin with Risa. Oh, I saw a very cute Instagram with you, but I'm integrating into the social world. Oh, yes. Yes. Oh, yes, my flight attendant video. Yes. It was during this like sweet spot when the the masks were lifting, you know, like however long ago that was now. And just this idea of like, how are we going to come back and see each other and, you know, all of these awkward interactions? So, yeah, that's all my Instagram. I just did a little in flight. In flight. In flight. Yeah, inspired reentry back into society video. Does anyone want to share their work with us? Yeah. I'll put it on gallery. Oh, wow. I'm going to pin this one. I'll pin for a sec. Amazing. Amazing. Whoa. Oh, that's so great. That looks really good. Oh, I love it. And you know, what's so cool is like everyone has their own style. Like this is also a thing that I love to, I always have interns, you know, pre-COVID, I would always have interns. Let's see yours. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's incredible. That's your glue, right? That's amazing. Let's see. Good work. Let's see this one. Wow, that's gorgeous. Abstract. And if you want to share your stuff, like you're sharing your stuff on social media to tag me so I can see it too. I want to see these like up close and first. Yeah, we could definitely message me. You could tag some social media. This is great. Whoa. Okay, I'm just like scrolling, like looking at everyone's stuff. This is so cool. All right, I'm going to take off and I'm going to remove the pins. Let's see. Remove all pins. There we go. That's fantastic. And anyone has any other questions for recent? These are amazing, aren't they? I love seeing people stuff. If we were to do this, I have a question for the people. If we were to do this in person, would you come? Or, and you can be completely honest. Yeah, be honest with me. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, on the weekend. On the weekend, yes. All right. He said, okay. Yes, weekend, weekend. Yes. People are ready. This is mine. Oh, I like that. I like the abstract one or the glitter or whatever that is. Thanks. Yeah, this is just like some scrap paper. No, so I'm never throwing anything away. I'm just like, this is perfectly good. Gold. Oh, thank you. Tuck this away. Whoa. That's awesome. This is an old map. Oh, an old map. That's so cool. This is the purple paper that I've been sitting on. I might be ordered to, okay? This is a really good map. It's just materials. We're artists. We have to hold on to materials, you know? Yep. Yep. We're not orders. You go on. Yay. Let's talk about like marketing. So we stopped at home this while we were behind the scene in the green room. Yes. So how do you feel about having to market yourself and any great suggestions or any advice about doing that? And you know, it's also like, God, you can spend like a great deal of your work life marketing yourself, which in the library, you have to do a lot of marketing and it gets, it's consuming and it takes much longer than you think. And people think, you know, you see the post. Yeah. That just took me an hour to get on. Exactly. Yeah. And especially as an entrepreneur, if you're like a, you know, one person, two person show, like, you're doing everything and marketing, you know, you plant the seed and then you have to wait around sometimes for a long time to see if anything sprouts from it. So, you know, it can feel really daunting and discouraging at times. For me, like, so, because I have basically like two sides of a business. I have Papalama, which I have sales reps and they're the ones that are going out to the stores. They have, you know, like personal relationships with the accounts. I used to go like when, before I had any sort of sales reps, I used to go store to store, like door to door, you know, like one of those people with the coats, you know, with all the cards, like, do you want a card? You want a card? Exactly. Which for me, again, because I'm an introvert and terrified of being out in the world, was a really scary thing to do. But I knew that there was something there and that, you know, I just, I kind of, I just blacked out or something and I would just go to stores and be like, do you want a card? You know, and some of those accounts are still with me today and we have a great relationship because they've been with me for like the past 10 years. So, you know, it's been, marketing can be challenging in that department. My sales reps really helped me out as far as being able to, you know, reach a broader market. And for Papalama, my business is mostly wholesale. So that's like a whole other, you know, kind of way of doing stuff. And that's all about like being able to produce, you know, enough to fulfill the demand and all that kind of stuff. And then as far as the art part, it's, for me, like, really organic. It grew organically as far as like people being able to see it. You know, Instagram, like social media has helped quite a bit. You know, it's hard to kind of find that sort of relationship between, you know, having social media as a tool for marketing and something that can help you with your creative business and then maintaining a healthy relationship with it. So that you can still create and it's not like taking away from the art because ultimately, you know, I'm making a physical art piece. And really just kind of being out there and like talking to people, again, introvert, talking to people. But you have to find your way of, you know, being out there in a way that's comfortable for you. And that, for me, it's kind of like exercise. Like if I'm like going to run, you know, a marathon, I can't just like start off running a marathon. I just have to like go one block a day and then eventually grow into something that like I can do a little bit longer. And for me, being just a part of the arts community and supporting my community, you know, you just kind of, you end up running into people, the same people, and you know, you become fans of each other's work and you share, you know, just like any sort of friendship, any sort of like good friendship. So I'm going to art shows all the time. If I'm just a body at the show, like that's fine. I just want to support in the way that I can. That makes me that is comfortable for me. And I can't buy, you know, a lot of art. I wish I could, but sometimes it's just about like showing up. And when you make that sort of effort, then, you know, like I just feel like things do happen. When you put yourself out there and you're, and you're creating and you're just like coming from a good spot, then things just kind of happen. I love that. I think I totally agree 100%. I'm all about this. I want to support everybody. Yeah. It's such a good community, especially here in the city. Like, we have such an amazing arts community that and everyone's really friendly. You just show up places and people are like, I don't know you, but hi, welcome. You know, it's, it's lovely. All right. There's a good question. It's like, how did you know to even like start working with sales reps? How did I know how to work with? I didn't. You didn't. Yeah, I didn't. So the shop that I was working at the time, they had sales reps. That would come. And then once, once my product was like basically proven to be a sellable product, they were like, oh, we're going to put you in touch with our sales rep. And that's how, and I still have that sales rep for San Francisco. And again, I think it's all about, this is what I tell my interns all the time. I'm like, just make stuff, just make as much stuff as you possibly can. And just put it out there. Even if it's just sharing with your friends, like doing, you know, like whatever makes you comfortable, as long as you're making stuff, someone is going to see. If you put yourself out there, people are going to see. And then, you know, it just kind of takes you on a journey that you just ride along with. It's like surfing or, you know, getting stuck in a current or something like that. You don't know where you're going, but we're long for the ride. Art for life. Art for life. Art for life. All right. I pulled out the exact knife on my project too. Yeah, awesome. Oh, that looks so good. I wish it would have been cool. Yeah. Oh yeah, I could definitely put like a little rivet in there and that's so great. I like, thank you, Risa. Yeah, good job. Um, do you produce all your work or have it produced for you? Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to tell you a story. It's, it's story time. So with Papalama, I have been doing like from start to finish the whole process. Like the whole inspiration behind Papalama was that I really wanted that like handmade feel. I didn't want like, I just wanted something that you can pick up for five bucks and you can tell that someone cared about this piece that they made. And I just remember like running into, I don't know, just like there's a lot of disconnect for me, like where, where the designer lives and then where the things are produced. And I don't know, I just like, I'm like, I'm just going to do everything myself. So from there, I took some letterpress classes here over in the Center for the Book, which is a great resource. If you want to get into printmaking, if you want to learn letterpress, I love that place. I got this old 1910 letterpress that I restored. I had no idea how to print anything, but I loved the look of letterpress because it, you can tell like all those little imperfections that just like translated through the, just the process of it. And then, you know, so just like from the design to the copy, producing it, like printing it, you know, packaging everything like 100% was me. And during COVID, I got rid of my letterpress machines, RIP, but I just, you know, I just, I needed more, more color. I just didn't want to do that part of the process anymore. And I think that's also something when you're a small business, you have to do a lot of things. Maybe you're not doing like necessarily all of the things of production, but everything else, you know, like for, for some time until you can get enough money to hire people to do things for you, like you're doing it all. So you really have to kind of figure out what part of the process is something that you have to be a part of that like does not work if you remove yourself from that or, you know, like what can be outsourced. And so now I work with a great printer, digital printer here in the city. It's still, you know, like with, it's still in line with what I believe in, which is, you know, supporting local, having it be made in San Francisco, you know, like still having my voice, having my copy, like illustrations, everything, but it's just kind of changed in a different way. That's more sustainable for me and my creative self. We have to take care of ourselves and our creative selves and, you know, making sure that we can keep doing this work, you know, no matter how stressful or, you know, we're, we don't have that much energy nowadays. So we have to be mindful of how, how we use it. So yes, 100% like was produced in-house up till I got rid of my machines. And then now I get to work with a really great printer and I get to support another small business. Love it. Totally love that story. Thank you. All right friends, this is our final chance for questions with Risa. Get your small business questions answered. And I did link the look up LinkedIn learning. I need my library card to sign in. So that would take some digging. I know as a librarian I should have not memorized. I have so many. That's why I like that. Yeah, there's too many numbers, like passwords. Like, I can't. So anyway, you could, and I'm pretty sure back when this was the other thing. Procreate was definitely on there. And Procreate has a free version. It's so fun. I do like collages on them. Yeah. So if you have an embrace like digital art, digital arts, a whole new thing too. Really, like, they definitely didn't anticipate that in art school when I went. Yeah, exactly. There's so many new tools to use and it's so fun to kind of explore them and see, you know, how you can kind of integrate them into your own process too. And Alex, I see you just asked where you could buy some of Risa's work. I'm going to throw this into the chat box again, both websites. Thank you. And then one more time, our link for tonight's event, which has deeper details about libraries, as well as the Small Business Center, links to Risa's sites, as well as the Creative Bud, the Center for the Book, and Papalama sites, social sites, and some upcoming news as I try to force you to come to more library events. Yes. Any final words, Risa? Well, just to answer, Alex, if you go to, you know, check out your local shops around the place. I'm in quite a few stores here in the city, so, you know, go support small businesses. Those places are also supporting small businesses like me. We're a really tight-knit community, and it really makes a huge difference when you support local. And as far as my art stuff, I have a couple things in galleries, but I'll be having a show at Rare Device a little bit later in the year. So that is where I'll have some more of my felted pieces. They're also a great small business. I mean, the small business community in San Francisco is just, like, amazing. It is. And don't you think he's having a comeback since COVID? Yeah. There's some silver linings there. Now some more questions are flowing in, though. Sorry, you can't let you go. No, don't let me go in here. Here we go. Let's see. Thank you for being creative. Are you always thinking about ways to expand the business? And what is your ambition as an artist and small business owner? I mean, I'm always looking for new ways to share my art. You know, the things that I believe in my love and my fighting for joy. And I want other people to have a little piece of joy to see and hold on to. So for me, yeah, I'm always looking for new ways of being able to do that. Like, I'm working with Chronicle Books. We're doing a thing together. You know, like just trying to find new ways of, yeah, expand. I guess that's expanding. How do I bring more fun stuff to people? Because, you know, that's dark days. So we can all use a little something. I totally forgot the second part of that question. I think you handled it. Okay. Ambitions as artist and small business owner? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just want to create as much as I can. And I think I create quite a bit. And then having more eyes on it and being able to, you know, have more people see it is just kind of like trusting the process. Again, like if I make the things, if I'm out there, I'm putting myself out there and people are seeing it, you know, like it's just going to keep growing organically. And there's lots of love in the chat too for you tonight. And Michelle says she loves that mantra of fighting for joy. Yeah. Yeah. All right, friends. Thank you so much for being here, John. This was a fun one. I'm going to put it on gallery mode again if y'all want to hold up your. Yeah. Hi. So cool. Yeah, I'm going to show mine too again. See if I can do this. To. Oh yeah, me. Cool. Oh, I like the candy. Oh my gosh, that candy is beautiful. So great. Yeah. If you're feeling stuck, you know, in anything like try it, try it out. Try it out. Very fun, you all. All right, friends, library community. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. It's always a pleasure to see you and join and gather. And let's do it again. Yes, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Another awesome moment. All right, friends. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.