 Ie, wrth gwrs, mae'r iawn, mae fath o'r bwysig yn dweud. Felly, ddau'n gwirio, ddau'n gwirio. Felly, rydyn ni'n meddwl y byddai'n gweithio'r thawdd ar gyfer trigylchu'n dweud i'r gweithio. Mae'r gweithio ar hyn, ond yn gweithio. Ydw i'n gweithio ar gyfer gweithio hefyd yn Llyfrodraeth Cymru yn dda i'n gweithio. ac mae'r drwpillau i chi wedi bod wedi'i amdano, mae yna yn cael ei ffordd iddyn nhw'n meddwl o'ch cyfathurau, oeddwn i'n meddwl o'r pryd-rhywbeth arddangos, ac rydyn ni'n cael ei wneud o'r gyfathor hwnnw i'r mynd i. Rydyn ni'n meddwl i'r cyffredineth Cymru, rydyn ni'n meddwl yn cydaint yng Ngheirio, Mae gennym y bwysig, mae'n bwysig, mae'n bwysig ynethwyrdanner. Mae'n bwysig yn dwyfyn a'r ddefnyddio yn dwyfyn. Mae'n gweithio ydw dwyfyn mlynedd y 7th sefydliadau. Sz маг arweinyddio byddwn yn gweithio'r ffyrdd. Y UEFF mewn archisbywysau, mae'r prysgaf ar gyfer wefydd gwasanaeth gelwyr, mae'r greu cyfnodol, so mae'r prysgaf o'r ymlaen i fydd yn cwysig. cyfan arwad o'i fedri arnynt efallai y gallwn i gweithio'r hyn cyffredinol. Mae fan hyffredinol yn drwpl. Yn y gallwn ei ddodd y byrman awyr ar y cefnod wider o drafnwyr Flannor, ac mae'r cyfnod iddynnu rydyn ni wedi ar yr ysgolion na fydd yma. Felly, rydyn ni'n sgolwch ei wneud cymryd, ac efallai rydyn ni'n ddynnu'n credu y dirodd hynny dwi fydd ei ddodd yn yn chi'n ddodd yn ddodd â cyffredinol ar y cyfryd.ondo, ac ydym yn ffynION, ydych yn ym innidig ymwys i gwaith yng Nghymru, yn ym melynyddu i'r premon i'r rysgol o'r rheswaith i drwpl 8 o drwpl 7 o'r newyddol. A wnaeth i'n ymlaen i'r ffynion o'r hynny, yna'n mynd i chi'n chyletaeth a'r hyst. I gael ydych chi'n gwybod i drwpl 7 o'r reilis? Mae cyf Gravity was in January 2011 if any we have been around with us that long but when we launched Dribble 7 great lovely launch parties the one in London was hosted by Microsoft, it was a lovely event but most of the contrary of the community modules weren't ready for us so actually putting the sites out in Dribble 7 was not practical at that point in time Felly, roeddwn i ddim yn ddim yn y modul peif wedi ei wneud unig yma, rydyn ni wedi bod yn ddweud yn ddweud o ddweud yr A7. Mae hynny efallai eich bod yn ysgrifennu, felly mae'r cyfrifion yn ddweud yn llyfr yma. Rydyn ni'n ddweud i'r modul peif wedi'n ddweud o ddweud, Rydym yn ysgrifennu, ac yn ddweud i'n ddweud i'n ddweud y modulau bod yn ei gydag mewn eu ddweud, ein modul peif wedi'n ddweud i'n ddweud, Felly y gallwn y esquodd erbyn, pasrhyf olywg, alleu. A byddai modul ym yn rhai wrth hyn o'r falch yn rhaid i'r canadaf, ac y fwy am rhaid i'n rhaid i'r falch yn rhaid i'r falch. Rwy'n cael eu bod nhw'n meddwl oiaeth y nifer yr Alban, rhai ar y canadaff hyn yn rhaid i'r falch i'r canadaff, yn y cilio. mae bethau nhw'n methu anodd fy hun ychydig i'w ddeithesiad yma yw 4-reliad canfeyr. Felly, ydych chi'n fwy ffordd o'r pan awfau, bethau, dweudau, iddo eich amser, fyddai cyhoedd sy'n cystafell yn gallu'n chi'n rhaid i'w wneud mewn Unstable-T-1 versions a dwi'n meddwl. Yn ddim eich bod, dwi'n adrodd yn newydd ar hyn yn ffarrer, held o'r modlenedd yn cael 12 yma. A ddylch chi'n bywch yn cyframe o'r modlenedd yma yma, wrth bod y modlenedd yn cael ei adrod eich bod yn gwneud mae o'r modlenedd yn Cyfroedad Newydd, rydyn ni'r Rhaideth o Genryd 2013 oherwydd i maen nhw'n chyrwbod yn gwneud. Rydyn ni'n glwydd amser yma. Rydyn ni'n gydan o hynny'n gynnig pa yw gynryd o'r Bwysigol, byddai dynnu cynyddu Cyfroedadd Newydd. Felly, nawr yma yma, But this is showing you just those release candidates if you feel like you're being a bit more risky here. So you can see that, really, we're looking at again, March before we got to, sort of, release candidates of these modules. And that was reflected in this particular graph, which is one of webchicks which is showing a Druit contracts adoption. When people started using Druit contracts from the launch, which is down here, a rwy'n brywbwch ymyrsiynau, oeddiwch eich cyfar phwys ar y Llyfr Oeddau, am yw awdurdod twisting ar gyflwyno, a da postio'r awdurdod wneud sut yn gweithio. Ac rwy'n bwysig erd画io'r Llyfr Oeddau, a ag siŵr yw hwn ar gyflwyno'r Llyfr Oeddau. Erdwch, mae'r llyfr yw hwn yn mynd i ddweud, dwi'n mynd i ei hun o'r Llyfr Oeddau. a tynnu'r ddweud bod yn cael ddwybodol bod nesaf ym Mhwyl Llywodraeth Cymru, a mae'r unig yn ôl yn yma, yng Nghymru, dyna ddweud yn ddweud, yn ym Mhwyl Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae'r 10 o'r pobl yn ym Mhwyl Llywodraeth Cymru, yna'n cael ddweud yn cael ddweud yn ym Mhwyl Llywodraeth Cymru. Felly mae'n gweithio'r lluniau i'r hyn yn cael ei ddweud, ac mae'n ddweud hynny'n ddweud, Y rhai gwnaeth, yma, y Drupal 8 mae'n rhaid i'w hefyd. Felly mae'n rhaid i'w hefyd dweud, ond mae'n dweud. Rydyn ni'n gwybod y dyfodd. Yn y dyfodd cychwyn yw mewn gwahod yma? Wrth gwrs, yma, wrth gwrs, nad oedd ymddangos ychydig gweld i'n mynd i ddigon i'r Drupal 7 a Drupal 8. Rydyn ni'n fydda chi'n ddweud o'r gwelwch, ond iddyn nhw'n fwyaf. We introduced in 2011 this thing called the Drupal 8 initiatives which was adding some functionality to the Drupal Core that didn't exist before and these were configuration management, HTML5 support, layout support, mobile support, multilingual, bring that view, the very important views module into core and also making Drupal much more of a web services kind of platform. So, Drupal 7 had so much of a dependency on the small number of core committers that, you know, Drupals made the decision to change things a little bit. And a couple of these initiatives are, the whiskey initiative, web services and context core initiative was about making Drupal 8 more about web services as opposed to what it was devolved, it was a very paid centric. And I'm sure you've probably heard all that stuff by now, but there's a reference down there about when that happened. And one of the other most important things was the configuration management initiative that happened. Before we were using the features module to store that configuration in code and it wasn't really what it was intended for, but we made it work somehow. And so this was configuration management was a proper solution to storing Drupal's configuration. So the modules that I'm, you know there's a thousand modules in Drupal and everyone uses different ones, but ultimately there are some perennials that we see every single time. So these are the ones that, for the sake of argument in this session I'm talking about, these were the ones that we were looking at the lifecycle of. So views, WYSIWYG, Ctools, which is a supporting module for views, the date module, path auto features, commerce, Google analytics and rules panels, token, I know that sort of thing. So when you look at Drupal 8, you can cross off loads of those because they're all were brought into core. So we have WYSIWYG in core, we have views, we have a plug-in management system which is used instead of Ctools. Date is in core, configuration management replaces features completely. Entity, which nearly got into core in 7 anyway, is definitely in core in 8. So that takes 50% of our dependencies away. So we're already in a better place when we get to Drupal 8 release, we're already in a much better place than we ever were in Drupal 7. So all of those things that allow us to be a step forward on the day of release. So what about those other 50%? Well what you'll see now is if you go to the report, you'll see this message a lot. This is going to appear on a module page, this module has a pre-release version. If you don't see that, and it's a module you want, then you've got to be out of trouble because that probably means no one's working on it. So not every module is going to be ported to Drupal 8, some of them are not necessary anymore, but when you see that you'll know at least someone's working on it. So looking at those ones that I pulled out was the important ones. So something like Drupal Commerce, we do lots of work in Drupal Commerce, ICOS, and there is a new version of Drupal Commerce 2, which has been rewritten completely for Drupal 8, and that's now at Alpha 3. So very much getting there. Again, when I first did this talk, it wasn't even on the horizon at Alpha 3, so we're going a significant step further along. But Drupal Commerce also has its own little mini ecosystem of plug-ins that help Drupal Commerce work, things like payment gateways and coupons and stuff like that. So all of that stuff also needs to catch up. So not only have you got commerce waiting for core, you've got contributed commerce waiting for commerce to come out. So you've got this double step delay. Then we've got the rules module, one of the most complex modules that there is. There was a fundraising initiative so that Wolfgang, who's the original maintainer, could basically be employed to get this thing done. That was partially successful, not 100%, but pretty good. As far as I know, when I last checked, which was last night, we are still waiting for the UI part of the rules to come into play. So again, moving on well, but of course you're reliant on people's volunteer time. So you can't necessarily project exactly when these things are going to happen. Now we have panels. We don't use panels that much in our sites, but it's obviously used very often for layout. Not all of the blocks initiative in core managed to make it through, so we still need a really good layout option for Drupal 8. So panels itself is in beta 4, and we are actually using different approaches now, things like paragraphs, which are also in the late beaters in Drupal 8. So in summary, the main thing that's different this time is that there's so much more stuff in Drupal core that we used to have to wait for. We don't have to wait just for quite as long as for the community stuff to catch up with us. Just to illustrate that, Drupal 7 core had 40 modules in, and Drupal 8 has 61. So it's gone a long way. But there's something else going on at the moment that you need to keep an eye on. So you'll see this symbol, and maybe you've seen this as well. The Lightning Project and the Drupal 8 Module Acceleration Program are both initiatives by Acquia. Under the, John Kennedy is running those programs. John Kennedy used to be one of our UK communities, now moved out to the States. The idea of the Drupal 8 Module Acceleration Program is to fund the acceleration of, I think they've called it the top 50 modules that are out there that haven't yet been ported. They are putting money into that. So that's one thing that's going on. The other thing is the Lightning Distribution. So if you have a look at Project Lightning on Drupal.org, what that is, is pretty much all those modules built into a distribution for Drupal 8. It could be a demo framework, it could be something else, it could be a base distribution for things you work on. But ultimately, it's a driver to get those modules ready for production. So Acquia, I don't know whether they're building projects on it, but it's certainly something you can get hold of. And if nothing else, it's a really good reference point to look at the modules they've decided to put in it, might influence your decision as to what you use. So, the other alternatives, when we've got a situation, because we've now got a symphony framework in Drupal, what is happening is people are taking slightly different approaches to module development. And what we're seeing is, I think Commerce Guys in Drupal Commerce 2 was the first example that I saw, where there's a tendency now to build these independent PHP libraries using symphony or other frameworks, and then to build your Drupal module wrapping around those libraries. In terms of Drupal Commerce, they made, I think, about five different libraries for things that could be useful outside of Drupal, like address management, currency conversion, that sort of stuff that was just available. And so what they've done is they've built those in standalone PHP and then open sourced those. And the intent for them was that other PHP e-commerce frameworks could use those libraries, and that has started to happen. But because of that, this pattern has started to be adopted by other people, including ourselves, in that if you're building a module now, you can build the logic of it in PHP and then wrap an actual Drupal module around it, either a Drupal 7 or Drupal 8 module around that PHP, and that gives you much more flexibility. And that's what I'm calling here. So you create your core functionality as a library, basically, and then you're wrapping a lightweight module around. And a really good example of this at the moment is we were commissioned by a company to build them a module for their service, a company called Search Metrics, but they wanted it in Drupal 7. So we knew ultimately they're going to want it in Drupal 8 as well. They just don't know it yet. So we decided rather than reinvent the wheel on this, we would build the functionality of their integration in a library and then wrap a Drupal 7 module wrapper around it, and then we'll be able to do the same for Drupal 8 as soon as we find a spare five minutes, basically. But anyway, yeah. And what other people are doing that we've seen out there, for example, Search API or integration with Apache Solar isn't quite there. But there's a symphony integration with Apache Solar. So what we have seen is that people are using that custom symphony integration and then plumbing that into Drupal. So taking that opportunity with symphony being there to utilise something that's outside of Drupal, but bring it in, and that takes away some of that dependency on Drupal 8 contrary of not being quite ready. So yeah, I'll cover that already. But yeah, Drupal Commerce is a really good example of Search Metrics that we're working on is another. So based on that potted history of what happened before, looking at the different approaches there are now, what this session really, for me, the message I want to bring to you is about how to make that decision, how to decide right now if you are starting a project tomorrow, do you do it in Drupal 7 or do you do it in Drupal 8? And that's a decision that I have to make not every day, but very often. So rather than it being an emotional decision and you come to an event like this and you see all this cool Drupal 8 stuff, and the decision, you will walk away from this today and tomorrow and you'll be going, yeah, yeah, I want to get into Drupal 8. But in the world that I live in, I've got to think about risk and I've got to think about risk versus reward. And I need to make a decision that's logical and not an emotional decision. So I'm not going to give you an answer here in this session today, but what I am going to give you is some things to think about that you may or may not be thinking about already. So what you're looking at are what are the requirements of your site. So this is the obvious thing, are the modules available that you need? So if they're not, then you're really not in a good position to start on Drupal 8, simple. Have you got an upgrade path from Drupal 7 to 8 or are you starting something new? Have you got a dev team that's trained in Drupal 8? Now a lot of development teams are being freaked out a little bit by the fact that we're going to be going to more object-oriented PHP. So there is that side of things. Whilst Drupal 7 and Drupal 8 on the surface look similar under the hood, they're quite a lot different. So have you got a development team there that is ready to learn? And what's the type of client you're looking at? Are you looking at a big sort of multinational who really don't look very risk averse? Are you sure it's company-state? Or are you looking at a startup that just wants the new coolest stuff? We've got to look at the community support cycle. We know that Drupal 6 support has come to an end, but Drupal 7 support will keep running and running until Drupal 9. And that's a good few years. So we're going to think about that as well. We've got to look at the timeline and the budget. Have you got two weeks to build this thing? Or have you got two months? And have you got the budget? Have you got the budget and the time to learn on the job? Now, if you're an agency, you probably don't, because your client is not going to pay for you to figure this stuff out. But if it's an in-house development, maybe you've got more time, maybe, to actually spend a bit more time looking at this. Then we look at security. Are there any implications of... This isn't so much the case now, but when I did the session originally, people were launching Drupal 8 sites when it was still in beta. And when it was still in beta, that meant the security team were not offering support for it. Therefore, you were putting yourself at big risk of security vulnerabilities that we didn't even know about yet. Do you have any special functionality, i.e., have you got to do custom modules? Do you're hosting company support Drupal 8 yet? And is performance a big consideration for you? Mainly, positive ones, is that Drupal 8 has a lot more performance optimization options available. So you might have seen sessions on big pipe earlier on, and that sort of thing. So if Drupal 8 is going to be able to give us better options on performance, then Drupal 7 does. So if performance is your number one issue with the project, then again, it's not black and white, but it might inform that decision one way. So going into a bit more detail on these things, what type of site is it? Is it a small campaign? Is it something that's going to be... Is it a burner site, as we would call it? Is it something that's going to go up for a campaign that's going to last two months and then be taken down again? Or is it something that's going to be a five-year plan of rolling updates, lots of different sites being built? So again, I'm not going to give you if it's this, it's Drupal 7, if it's that, it's Drupal 8. You need to make those decisions, but these are the things you need to think about. So in our case, we often build these multi-site platforms where we're looking at a long-term thing. So actually, in that case, we have to think strategically. So is the site you're about to build have a heavy reliance on community stuff? So we talked about Drupal Commerce and we talked about rules. If you're trying to build a Drupal Commerce site in Drupal 8 and you want to start on Monday, it's not happening. Sorry, you've got Drupal Commerce in Alpha 3. So no one's going to want to launch something on Alpha site. Well, some people do, but some people are crazy. Anyway, so depending... If it's not Commerce-based, therefore it changes your decision a little bit. So is it a greenfield? Is it a brand new site from the ground up? Or is it something that's already in Drupal 6 or 7? Do we need to consider the migration path? Drupal 8 has migration in core now, whereas before that was very much a load of add-on modules. But it was added to core very late in the day and it didn't have a UI in the initial release. So you really have to know what you're doing. But it is still possible. Or is it any build with content migration from an existing site? So again, things to think about. So thinking, as we were saying about your dev team, what's your dev team experience? Now some of the very, very early Drupal 8 sites. Now what you'll see is a lot of marketing, a lot of spin. We've done the first Drupal 8 site, we've done this and that. And often what you'll find is that those companies have got a Drupal 8 core maintainer on staff. So they can take those kind of risks because they've got someone that can go in and fix it. Not everyone has that advantage. Have you got PHP developers that have got object-oriented program experience because they're going to need it to understand? A lot of the time what we've found is that Drupal developers aren't necessarily computer scientists. They're not necessarily classically trained programmers and they may not have come across OOP before. Often what they'll have done is learnt Drupal by example, by looking at modules, by figuring it out. And that doesn't mean they're a bad developer. They can be an absolutely brilliant developer. But they might suddenly realise that some of these paradigms of computer science don't make sense and they need to relearn them. And the same with symphony. Whilst it's not strict, I think there was a lot of buzz when symphony first came into Drupal that, oh, we're all going to have to learn symphony, I think. But when it's actually come down to it in the Drupal 8 release, it's useful to have symphony experience. It's useful to know what the symphony components are, but actually it's not essential. Just like it wasn't ever essential in Drupal 7 to completely understand how it worked. As long as you understand enough for what you need, which is maybe doing module development or so on. And I think it's the same for Drupal 8. You don't need to be a symphony expert to do custom development in Drupal 8. It doesn't hurt, but you don't need it necessarily. And what we've been doing at ICOS is we're doing internal training about the different types of symphony components just so that we know what they are and what they're for. And Steve did this course last week. And it's about just familiarising yourself with some of the terminology more than anything. So, yeah, then looking at your risk profile of your client. Are they in a highly regulated industry, in which case they'll probably say everything has to have an official release. No alphas, no beaters, no devs. If it's a really high profile or high traffic site, then the risk of something going wrong could be quite catastrophic to your business. Or there's just generally risk averse, which many big companies will obviously be because you're talking about their brand. And the last thing they want to see is a white screen where their website should be. It's not saying that Drupal 8 involves white screens, but I'm just saying that that's the difference between something new and something tried and trusted. So we're expecting Drupal 7 support to be at least three years. We don't know what it really is, but from past experience it's probably going to be that. So if the site we're building is, like I said before, a promo site, a throw away, a burner, or it's a two-year, a lot of people build sites that last three years. It seems to be a bit of a pattern in the industry now because by the time three years have gone by, there's new trends or you've got a new management team if you want to do it all again. But three years is quite a common life cycle for a site. And in which case, three years, three years support, what do you do? Adding in, can you forward to learn on a job? There's no question about it. The moment you start Drupal 8, and this is what we experienced in Drupal 7, it was very, very painful getting up to speed. It's going to be the same with Drupal 8. The core stuff is going to be fine. It's much, much better, better UX and everything else. But when it comes to doing custom development, we've got to relearn our process a little bit. So, for a certain period of time, a few months maybe, it's just going to take a little bit longer. I mean, you're doing that on your own time or your client's time. So, site building won't be definitely better. Configuration management will definitely be better. But if you've got an existing, for example, an existing install profile that you always use for your sites, then obviously you need to change it and update it with Drupal 8. So there's a bit of pro and con there. Some things, like you won't have to mess with features so much, and that is pretty time consuming stuff. Config management is going to make that much faster. So can you trade that time saving off against the slightly longer time it might take you to do custom modules at this point? So going back through my old slides, I was managing to update them last night and say, yeah, actually, we don't have to worry about this anymore. The security policy of the Drupal security team is to only support betas. There was a bug bounty program going on at the time. But now we know that there are Drupal 8 security releases coming out and it's fully supported by the security team. So that's good. We can take that one off the list now. And the next one is about special functionality, I call it, but stuff that you might not do every day. Multilingual sites, obviously in Drupal 8, all of the multilingual stuff was built in, whereas before it used to be a hotspot of things that we had to join together. So if you're doing a multilingual site, it's going to be significantly easier to do in Drupal 8 than in Drupal 7. Doing integrations with APIs externally, again, Drupal has been reworked in Drupal 8 to be much more friendly for that kind of application. So if you are, for example, building a data store that's going to tie into a mobile app or something like that, then Drupal 8 is a much better option for you. And having built a few of these in Drupal 7, it can be quite a process. And then configuration workflow. If that is really important to you, locking down that configuration in the environment is really important, then configuration management is a massive step forward over features. And again, when I wrote this, not everyone was supporting Drupal 8. I didn't think at the time I did this, Acre were doing Drupal 8 support. Of course they are now. But if you're not on Acre and you're not on Pantheon, you're not on Platform or any of these well-known hosting layers, then you do that. Does your hosting provide the support what we need? Does it support the memory? Does it support the PHP version? And so on. Because I haven't got any evidence so much, but it's like if you're trying to put this on a shared hosting platform on Fasthost or something, is that going to work for you compared to Drupal 7? And then performance. So performance is a massive step up. So there was a session on BigPyte this morning, which is very, very interesting. But caching and just cache tags and much more intelligent caching than we've ever had before is available in Drupal 8 now. So that's a massive step up, especially for caching in authenticating traffic. So people are logged in, you're seeing it much, much better. Something that we really can't achieve in Drupal 7 is this high performance of logged in traffic. And then we've got the base theme. So there aren't that many base themes in Drupal 8. And that's a little bit surprising, but there may be more now. But there was a completely rethinking of theming in Drupal, which has always been a little bit controversial how difficult it is to theme in Drupal 7. So Drupal 8 has switched to Twig, which is a symphony-based thing. And it uses much more logical HTML markup rather than lots of PHP going on. And that makes it much, much more accessible to front-enders who are not specifically Drupal trained. And we certainly, within our group, we have lots of front-enders that haven't done Drupal before, and we're very much looking forward to then being able to work with us more on-sites without having to have a Drupal back-ender sitting next to them, holding their hand, helping them through. So you've got these stable and classy core themes, which our friend Morton has introduced into the system, which allow us to basically give us a really clean place to start and base our own theme on top of. So I would strongly advise you to watch any of those sessions on those that are very, very interesting. So it's not so much of a problem that we don't have that many base themes in Drupal 8, because what we've got in core is a really, really good place to start. Right. So putting it in a different way, as of today, on the left-hand side here, we've got a very simple site, maybe a marketing site, all out to a really complex platform, and on this direction, you've got the risk, so high risk. So at the moment, if you're looking at maybe an internal project where no one's going to screen this out, maybe it's a simple kind of brochure site, then you're in the safe zone down here. If you're up here, slightly more complex site that's got multilingual requirements, maybe APIs, Symphony or Advanced Caching, it's complex, but you're going to be better off in Drupal 8 because of all these things that we now have. If you're over here, you're in the slightly unknown risky zone, because if you've got a really high-profile client, maybe regulated, maybe you're using panels, who knows? This is risky here, and at the top, you're in the real high risk area, because if you need to build a Drupal combat site in 8 tomorrow, you're going to have to be dependent on that word map and the alpha version, which might be fine for what you're doing, but the risk is high. So it's, as I said, head versus heart, make the logical decision, and what I advise you to do is to use the materials in this presentation to do yourself a pros and cons of this, just like you do for any big life decision. Make a list of those criteria and look how important each one is to you, and then potentially add a component to scoring if you want to go really complicated and do it on spreadsheet. Put this slide in there, I'm trying to decide whether I should have done it on the night you went back. So any of you actually working on Drupal 8 site at the moment, at the back there, at the moment, anyone working on a commercial Drupal 8 site? Yeah? So my last couple of slides, actually, if you're thinking about it, these reasons, everyone else is doing it, that's what you'll hear this week. If I don't, oh no, I'm going to be left behind, the community is going to go racing off, and I won't be in it. I've got clients that are saying, yeah, yeah, we want Drupal 8. It's the latest thing I want to do it. We can learn it as we go along, it's fine. We know some symphony, we've done a bit of that, we'll be alright. Anyone's talking about every session here is about Drupal 8. Drupal 7 is obsolete, we don't want that anymore. One direct quote from someone in my office, tweet looks cool. None of these are a good reason to do Drupal 8, alright? None of those are a good reason. So that's the emotional stuff. That's the stuff that can lead you down the wrong path. Now I absolutely want to get stuck into Drupal 8 for all of those reasons, but that's not the reason to make a commercial decision. And this one is the takeaway for me. A failed Drupal 8 site is bad for all of us. We're in this community together and any Drupal 8 failure reflects on all of us because the next client that comes along says oh well I heard about that company there they had Drupal 8 and it was a disaster. So whilst you'll see a lot of people and a lot of marketing and even our own marketing saying yeah we're Drupal 8 ready, we're Drupal 8 ready, but the right project needs to be Drupal 8 ready. So I don't want to bring the day on a downer, but I just want every project to be successful. I want Drupal 8 to be successful and I don't want us to make the wrong decisions right now that we rush this. And it might be that in a month no month is the right time and it completely depends on the project. It might be that last week is the right time but we are building Drupal 8 projects ourselves so I'm not completely running off at this point but it's just making that decision. Think about your project and not getting carried away and thinking that you can't keep doing Drupal 7. So I'm also not saying go and use backdrop but it's making that sensible decision for the right reasons and that decision is going to change on a week by week basis and I on that on the ecosystem that's around us and then so what do you do next and then I'll do the shameless plug stuff so we've got a couple of books out, this one's just come out so this is an illustration really of Drupal 8 we spent two years writing this Drupal 8 book because Drupal 8 has been such a long drawn out process for us all we had to spend two years writing a book about it because every time we thought we were done something changed so we had to do it again but that's out now, we were giving some away I don't know if there's any left anyway so yeah Drupal 8 that is a book about learning Drupal 8 it's not a hardcore developer's book it's more about introducing Drupal from the very beginning and taking it through so shameless plug over, that's me if you've got any questions I'd be very very happy to hear about sure they are, yeah but when for example we were writing that chapter of the book we were like okay let's pick some well known themes and they just weren't there and that may have changed now that we've stabilised it a little bit but the issue to be honest Drupal isn't like some other things like WordPress there's not that much of a marketplace for themes and stuff because there's no way really to monetise it that well so there's not, whereas WordPress you can get thousands of themes and just download them and plug them in, don't really have that as much in Drupal, you can do a bit but not so much well the themes that are being built they don't have to be but anyone who's doing stuff like that would you'd be very unlikely to use a fine one that wasn't but generally we use themes to build on top so there's very unlikely that we're going to in our line of work anyway that we're going to download a theme from a community or a marketplace and use it as it is most of the time we use themes to build our clients brand on top of so what you were saying earlier about that WordPress having to take longer if you're working on a project it's going to take longer because you have to learn a little bit more whereas I've been looking at the theme system by the last couple of weeks and for me that's like a front ender I think that Drupal is going to be quicker so there's going to be time savings as well as with that as well I was looking because I was used to the Amiga base theme and I was doing the same thing scratching around thinking why isn't this here and when I actually looked into what Morton has done with the theme system it's almost like it's for me anyway it's just not necessary because the base theme in core is doing everything if you're designing from scratch then you don't need anything other than what's in core really absolutely agree and that was the point that I had up there I don't need those support things any more and yet there were definitely some areas as I said configuration management theming that are just going to get easier and they're going to be quicker and therefore maybe depending on the type of work that outweighs the fact that custom module development for a couple of months might take a bit longer and that's what it's all about it's figuring that calculation out depending on how again calculating the risk because the worst thing is you you say right I'm going to build this it's going to take you two days based on my experience or two weeks and it takes you ten and then everyone's in trouble so it's just that transition that's where we are right now and it's that uncomfortable bit and you feel like you're being left behind you think that everyone you talk to is doing Drupal 8 I'm not so sure so we'll be doing it we'll be writing our own internal projects and again depending on there's a couple of commercial projects that we're looking at at the moment that where Drupal 8 makes sense for many of these reasons so yeah we're cracking on with it but it has to say it's just about balancing it up yes sure it's alright so display suite yeah display suite is one of the ones that is in a good state for Drupal 8 I think so yes yeah paragraphs we use display suite is usable for sure as I say commerce is in pretty good shape but it's just the community bit of commerce that needs to be thought up including some of them or just that I look up so yeah any others I don't know I hope so because again that was a nice little one chapter in the book was about essential contrary stuff and path auto is number one and it just didn't bloody work so yeah I hope so I think I'm surprised it didn't make it it would make sense exactly yeah I was very surprised when we were working on 8.0 that it wasn't there but yeah even so the module for path auto is in good shape so that's one blocker out of the way okay oh number one which one for commerce I think rules is you know there's some things you can get around you might not need to do migration at all you might and 8.1 has got that missed the bit of migration that missed out on 8.0 rules dependency again they've built the guts of it but they haven't built the UI so that doesn't mean you can't use it it's just going to be a bit more fiddly and commerce is rocking away number three now I don't know with I think there might be only from your liens as a full release but there's three developers dedicated to that on the reformed commerce guys if you know any of the history around that who are working very hard to get that out there so I don't know I'm expecting to be honest with you the types of stuff that we do is after release is what we did in Drupal 7 and I expect it will be about the same which is only maybe two months away right it's not far when I wrote this it was November last year and now we're in a different place so every day every new project that we look at the scales tip closer to here well again that very much depends on the life cycle yeah but it really depends and it depends on the client because if the client is knowledgeable in Drupal then they're going to say well what are you doing building this Drupal 7 site and that's why it was one of my reasons don't necessarily take that as the only reason to do it in Drupal 8 you can have that conversation for sure and move the conversation away anyway for the new delivery it's also quite high maintenance I've built my own rebuilt my own website in Drupal 8 as a project and I started using responsive picture with this flow suite and display suite in support of this picture and then I kept doing these upgrades as different modules went and the devs went up and the helpers and beaters went up and suddenly it worked suddenly it was a responsive picture well I would just definitely say keep an eye on that lightning distro because those modules that have been selected by John and his team are the ones that are looking at loads and loads of sites so they're the ones that they know they've put focus on the money into so if there's modules in there most likely the ones you're looking for are going to be the ones in that big 50 so keep an eye on that is what I would say and the moment that goes from beta to full release is probably the day you ring the bell and say right that's it and everything's now green and go for it so is that being released as a distribution it's already out there and project slash lightning do you need to tell us more about it maybe do you need anything about it yeah so I'm keeping a very close eye on that I have like a list of my top 20 or 30 modules that I'm waiting for and then I'll look at that distro oh yeah and that one but I can see that that's where the effort's going so yeah well it's been a long day social time thanks very much for coming in so