 I teach for our aboriginal health program here at the University of Lothbridge, and it's a fairly new program. It can be both a minor and a major for a health sciences degree, and so the program is currently still under development. We've been, it was originally developed kind of under the umbrella of our public health major, but we're slowly kind of shifting away from that now, and it's basically been designed to kind of present indigenous health and issues and all that kind of stuff from a two-eyed scene perspective, and two-eyed scene being kind of a phrase term that was developed out of MiKma, from some MiKma elders. And so it's really about kind of looking at indigenous health issues from much more of the holistic perspective, like health sciences or program, we have a lot of, you know, western approaches to health, which is very biological, very biomedical. And so what our classes do, like we have got a number of classes, we've got introduction to Aboriginal health, contemporary issues in Aboriginal health, and so the introduction gives you just kind of an overview of all the different issues, introducing some of the history, colonialism, very much the wide range of different health issues that are going on. Contemporary issues is one class that I teach, and I tend to bring in much more of looking at, I guess the language here would be the social determinants of health, but I just take a broad perspective looking at issues like, predominantly colonialism. Colonialism is the determining factor of how that history and the current incarnation of colonialism continues to marginalize and create negative health outcomes, but also looking at the positive side too of, you know, factors like resilience and culture, identity, all of these other broad social features and how that impacts health and wellness. And I tend to take more of a wellness approach because the western perspective sees health defined very narrowly, whereas wellness is not just about, you know, the absence of symptoms, it's about thriving and being able to be well and feeling good, not just physically, but, you know, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, looking at that. That's the contemporary issues class. I also teach, we have an Indigenous Healing and Restoration class, and that's another one that I teach, and that one I really bring in, like, this two-eyed scene approach, because mainstream practitioners, Western science, has really been very dismissive. It's invalidated Indigenous knowledge and Indigenous ways of healing and knowing and observing and basically Indigenous science, ways of seeing the world. So for that class I bring in, you know, kind of a Western, people get the Western understanding, but I also apply Western science to understanding why some of Indigenous practices that might be labeled as placebo or, you know, even historically the early Jesuits, they label it quackery and that kind of stuff, looking at how it actually works and why it heals and bringing that in. So another course is Indigenous Community Development, and so that's really looking at relationship building and grassroots development, going to the communities and finding out what they want instead of the top-down process that the government of Canada has always done, thinking that they know better. So I feel a lot of the program, what we do is students have a choice of different electives and stuff, they get, you know, some background in, you know, Western science, and then they get the different version of Indigenous ways of knowing and healing and perspectives, that much broader perspective. And so what the program is aiming to do is really develop cultural competency in a way, understanding. There isn't a lot, I don't feel that there's a lot of understanding among settler peoples of Indigenous issues, and we're starting to come to a point where there is, people are, like the Truth and Reconciliation Commission has opened up some of these stories that have traditionally been silenced, and we're also seeing a backlash, too, in society, I think. So students coming out of the program, they'll have a good understanding of the history of holistic ways of knowing and appreciation and value for Indigenous ways of knowing, and they can come out and they can go in multiple different fields, like it's really broad. I tend to bring a bit more of a interdisciplinary perspective, medical anthropology, native studies, that kind of stuff. I bring in those kind of topics and stuff, sociology as well. So they're getting much, kind of a more broad understanding than what you get from within just one discipline. What, in your opinion, makes it an example of excellence in Indigenous integration? Well, I actually come to think of it, I've actually forgotten I left out one of our Keystone courses, too, which really is novel, and that's where it is. I think it fits into your question about excellence. We have a course that we offer that's a third year course in Aboriginal health concepts, and so there, like, I've facilitated the course. It's three hours once a week, and we bring in an elder or a knowledge holder once a week, so that the students are actually learning from the knowledge holders, following the oral tradition more so. And so we tend to bring in, look, we've brought in a lot of people from Ghana First Nation, a few from Pagani, some Métis people, and Inuit elder. So we are bringing in a bit of a breath, and that is really, you know, it's problematic in the sense that myself as a third generation settler here in Canada, that I'm kind of the one teaching, and students really need to hear it from their own people. They need to be taught indigenous ways from indigenous people. And so I'm just kind of a filter until we get, you know, people. So bringing in knowledge holders is really, really important. And so I think that is one of the main things. The other element with that class, too, which is really interesting is that it's a very different process. I'm just learning, starting to learn about indigenous pedagogies and knowledge systems and that sort of thing. But the universities are incredibly colonial. You know, we are ranking students against one another, evaluating them. We are generally just delivering knowledge and facts for them to remember. Sometimes there is some critical thinking. But as I've been learning about indigenous ways of knowing, knowledge unfolds. It's very personal. It's connected to who you are and your own relationship to that knowledge and your experience. And so it's not about someone telling you what you're supposed to know. It's about them giving their perspectives and then you developing your own. And I find in that course, it's different in the sense that we see these different dynamics. And what is really amazing about that is that finally, indigenous students seem to connect to that way of knowing. Now this is a broad generalization, so I want to be very careful about that. And non-indigenous students seem to, some are really good and some struggle with that way of learning, not being told directly what to know. So what it's doing that course is kind of flipping the education system around a little bit. And finally, I think historically, it was just my understanding. Historically, indigenous students have struggled with colonial education. It just doesn't fit with their indigenous pedagogy. And so courses like this, what it does is it gives them a way where they can excel. And we start to see the settler's students who struggle with it a bit more. So we really see the difference in the pedagogical approaches. So we're kind of experimenting with that. Students seem to love it, but it's all part of this process as we're developing the program. How do you measure the success of your program in this process? We're still developing that. Again, colonial educational system, we need to have our outcome measures and all of that and we're still really new. We only have one student now who's at the very end of the program doing her practicum and the student seems to be doing very well. So I think in terms of our successes, it's looking at our students actually getting something out of it. So from your perspective, what is indigenous education? Well, I've spoken to that somewhat already. It's just a way of realizing that knowledge unfolds differently and valuing that it's not necessarily going to unfold in a colonial way with, it's very personal, it's relational. And it's allowing students that opportunity to develop their own knowledge systems. It's very student-centered rather than curriculum-centered, I guess. So what is your vision for indigenous education for the next ten years? We need to start educating settlers. That needs to be mainstream in all schools, primary, secondary education across Canada. People actually need to start seeing both the other side of history, the stories that haven't been told. Generally, our history classes have been whitewashed. So I think it really is about getting settlers to understand, because there's still so much racism in this country. And we need to have both sides, that's really, now that's just my own perspective as a settler. That would open up other ways of knowing. Creating that understanding will then open up ways for recognizing the value of indigenous pedagogies and ways of knowing. What information, materials, resources do you have to add that vision aside from funding? People. Indigenous knowledge holders, allies, settler allies like myself. People who can kind of stand up and say, no, you've only heard one side of the story. Let's hear the other now.