 Hi, it's Rebecca at Timesmith's Dressmaking. Welcome back to my channel. Today we're talking about patterns. Anyone who is new to 18th century sewing projects and costume making, perhaps, considering what pattern to use for your first one. So you may relate or you have said one of one of these statements. You're looking for a pattern and you're not too concerned about being super historically accurate, but you'd like to get the right look. Or you need it to be an easy pattern based on what you think your skill level is. Or you know that you're planning to use a sewing machine, but finishing with hand stitching, or as I often hear people say we'll use hand stitching for everything that shows. If you've been in that position wondering where to start, then let's talk about patterns. And by patterns I'm assuming that most people in this position are talking about traditional paper patterns that you cut out and lay out on your fabric and generally pin or use paper weights and then cut out your fabric and then assemble all of the pieces together in a certain order. And I'm assuming that the biggest hurdle that you are up against is how to make the outer garments that are fitted, the classic beautiful 18th century gowns or perhaps fitted jackets. Those sorts of garments. So the first thing is to check if you want the right look that relates to having the right silhouette so that if someone sees you from a distance they recognize immediately, very quickly, that this is 18th century and not another era. Not Victorian, not Elizabethan, something like that. That is clearly 18th century. And for that you need the right undergarments. You need the right structure that will give you the right shape. So you will need to have, really, ideally you should have a shift. You will definitely need stays that are the right shape, the right style for the gown that you're making and a well-fitting, a good fit on you. And then also you need to give some thoughts into the skirt supports, the lower body structure that produced the elaborate and the fantastic of voluminous fabric shapes of 18th century gowns. So yes, so you'll need stays, shift stays, skirt supports. And then you probably will want an under-pedi coat. There will be a pedicot with your gown and possibly even another under-pedi coat under that. So you could have two or three pedicots perhaps in total. I highly recommend that you build up these foundation garments using Burnley and Trowbridge's Sew Along series on their YouTube channel. You'll be able to put together all of the basic unfitted garments, actually mostly without a pattern. It's basic geometry and they tell you how to measure out your fabric and determine how much you need and how to cut. And you don't actually need a paper pattern for most of those garments. Burnley and Trowbridge also have quite a comprehensive series of stitch tutorials so that you know what these stitches are by name and how to do it and you get a chance to practice. If it turns out that you decide you need actual personal tuition with stitching, then I highly recommend Sewing Company, Sarah Woodard Sewing Company. For Burnley and Trowbridge and Sewing Company I will put links to their websites and YouTube channels in the description below. Right, so you've got all your undergarments and you're ready to start. The three most popular pattern lines for 18th century sewing projects are JP Ryan, Mill Farm, and Larkin and Smith which is also sometimes referred to as at the sign of the golden scissors and sometimes just golden scissors. All of these come from individuals who specialize in 18th century. They are long time living historians, reenactors, costumed interpreters and historical traders. They are steeped in knowledge the 18th century. All three of them produce paper patterns that you buy in come to you in a packet or an envelope with a set of instructions for making up the garment once you have your fabric cut out. So these are all historical pattern lines. I'm assuming right at the start that you want the right look and the right silhouette so we're not looking at the big non-specialist historical pattern companies like McColl's and Simplicity and Butterick. Those are just not going to produce the right result for you. But if you do find yourself forced to use a pattern from one of these companies, there are a number of places you can go to find hacks that will help you put them together in a better way, a little bit closer to the order of construction, using some methods that will produce a more historically accurate look than if you followed the instructions that come with the pattern. If this is you, just let me know in the comments below and I'll do my best to steer you in the right direction to get the help that you need to get a better result with those patterns. But looking at the three most commonly recommended historical pattern lines of the 18th century, then the factors you're going to need to consider when choosing are the degree of historical accuracy in the pattern pieces and in the instructions. One of the factors you'll want to consider too is what garments are included in their lines. Some of them include jackets and gowns. Some of them are just gowns. You'll also be wanting probably to balance up your demand, your needs in terms of ease and speed. Do you need to do it or want to do it in a way that you learn? Or are you needing the quickest route to, or are you looking for the quickest way to get to the degree of historical accuracy that you want or need for this project? If it's speed that you're after, then you're going to need also to be really honest with yourself about your end goal. Are you going to end up with the correct outfit? In this regard I've just asked you to weigh up gowns versus jackets. It's tempting to go with jackets because they seem easier and faster to make but depending on the time, the place and the person, the impression that you are aiming to look like, jackets may not be appropriate for that. We do not see so many jackets in English culture in the 18th century which has an impact on American culture in the colonies. However, they were much more common in continental Europe and these are generalizations France and Germany and Holland, for example. However, there are some exceptions in some parts of the American colonies depending on the cultural and ethnicity backgrounds and also different time periods. Earlier in the century you'll see more of a mix of jackets, later in the century you'll see more of a mix of jackets but for the bulk of the 17th century in English culture it was all about gowns and the same is true of Scotland, they were wearing gowns not jackets although there are some exceptions there. So those are just things you'll need to wake up way up is that it's tempting to go with the jacket first of all thinking it'll be simpler but if the end result is a garment that is actually not going to be as hysterically accurate as you need for your event or for your group then it may be a false economy and end up being just a learning experience that you never get a chance to wear because it's not doesn't meet the end goal. We're now going to look at these three pattern lines with some examples by reference to just a few of the patterns that I have from each of them in some detail to see their pros and cons and what might be the most suitable for you. So for each of these three pattern lines going to look at some examples and have a think about historical accuracy based on period documentation and or the study of extant garments that may have been made we'll look at how historically accurate the pattern pieces are, the construction techniques, the order of construction and whether the instructions are clear and easy to follow which would make them suitable for beginners. Starting with J.P. Ryan. Here is a very popular style, a gown. It is referred to as a robe à l'englaise, à la pollinée with two options either being an open robe where under petticoat or a petticoat shows underneath the edges of the gown or in this case what they call an apron front. Now both styles are historically known styles however just flag up that the dating on this pattern is not strictly accurate. Also the terminology is quite outdated, research has really corrected our understanding of what a lot of the terminology used here in this pattern referred to in terms of the style. Neither one of these is a pollinée and also the apron front was not popular really again in the 18th century until the 1780s which is not what's said in the pattern. However going for the right shape in the silhouette provided that you are making these overstays that fit you well this is a very good silhouette. So I'm going to take yes that the pattern pieces to get the right shape and look are pretty good go with that. Now period construction techniques this is to be absolutely honest they're not historically accurate at all this is modern construction really perfect for making with a sewing machine it actually assumes you're going to. Seam allowances are not finished off in the same way basically the actual construction techniques do not allow the seams to be handled in the same way as we see in extant garments. There are a number of different techniques here that just did not exist in the 18th century. However those exact features that sort of fail on historically accuracy may be useful for you in some circumstances and depending on what your goal is here and we'll get to that a little later in this video. So I'm going to have to say not period construction techniques and the order of construction is not historically accurate. Clear and easy to follow instructions if you're experienced with or intermediate or experienced with modern techniques modern construction and modern sewing machine sewing then yes you probably can get by there may be some things a little unfamiliar in terms of the actual manipulation of fabric but it's pretty easy to find help with those things and there shouldn't be anything that really stomps you so I would say if you're an intermediate then you're fine. We'll just give a quick look at one of the sheets with the pattern pieces so that you can see it is full scale full size and includes seam allowance and you would simply cut these pieces lay them out on the grain line indicated, pin to your fabric exactly as with any other pattern. The next one is mill farm patterns. This is a different style that I've selected here that I have in my own library of patterns. This one is quite different from JP Ryan in opposite ways. Again you'll get the right look this is distinctly 18th century no fear of it being mistaken for anything else. The instructions and order of construction are based on what's seen in extent garments so it's quite accurate that way so we will actually mark up here pattern pieces are good period construction techniques are good order of construction is good clear and easy to follow instructions. The instructions are very brief they are literally two sides of one sheet of paper and then another sheet with some options to make variations of this style and some list of books that back up some of the research here which is good to have. Personally I find these hard to follow unless you already know what the order of construction is so that puts this into a category that this could be really useful as possibly a second project. We'll come back to that as to how you can use that later on. So I'm gonna say that you would need to be beyond beginner level at in 18th century specific sewing so I'll just put not for beginners to 18th century. I think it just assumes some understanding that is not explained in detail the instructions are just very very brief. And the last one is Larkin and Smith I've chosen the English gown to show you here again paper pattern all comes that you need to cut out the period pieces are very very good as good if not better than the others so in terms of the accuracy of the pattern pieces period constructing techniques this is where Larkin and Smith excel really teach you period techniques in instructions that are in a booklet of over 30 pages long it's quite remarkable and that gives you everything from background introduction choosing materials fabric suggestions thread instructions suggestions tips on preparing your fabric and then a full section on the stitches that will be used and the basis for them they come from period sewing manuals diagrams and descriptions instructions on each of these seeming techniques and stitches and then the construction details the gown is based on what we see in the in the original gown that the pattern has been based on and then the construction details on the reproduction gown including details the fabric chosen and why and then this is lovely I don't know if anyone else that does this in a in a paper pattern like this includes steps on how to make a mock-up how to make a muslin and to know assess the fit to know what to fix in the pattern to make it fit you better and then and then gives you construction sequence like a cheat sheet as you go through and you're lost in the details there is this thing you can go back and check where you are in the sequence because sometimes you'll think oh shouldn't I've already done such and such by now and there'll be a very good reason why it's been left till slightly later in the sequence of instructions so that's really really good this is really for instructions and for teaching short of taking a hands-on sewing class this is a sewing workshop historical methods in an envelope in a booklet and is gold standard so Larkin and Smith we have period construction techniques order of construction also it assumes no prior knowledge you can be an absolute beginner and it will hold your hand walk you through exactly what to do so I rate it very highly or please clear and easy to follow instructions look at back to how these can be used in your sewing journey and as you're learning all three of these patterns may have a role to play for you so your choice of pattern plays a role in where you go from here in your journey after making your first pattern do you want to develop more skills do you want those skills to be modern methods modern skills or historical skills jp ryan is perfectly suited to the modern dressmaker but it will not take you forward if you're looking to develop historical sewing skills so if you make a pattern from jp ryan and then you want to look at mill farm or larkin and smith um you're not actually going to be any better prepared to use these patterns than you were before you use the jp ryan pattern so if historical accuracy is a goal even if it's a nebulous maybe one day sort of goal then using jp ryan exactly as it is out of the pack is just sort of kicking the can down the road for you at some point you're going to want to give a more historically accurate method a try and jp ryan won't have prepared you for that or laid any groundwork for that so why not start with one of the patterns that does teach you the right order that things go together and the period methods to do it of your two options larkin and smith is by far the more detailed much more detailed in fact it's pretty much considered the gold standard with full explanations step by step instructions photos illustrations even on making a mock-up to perfect to perfect your fit larkin and smith starts the beginning and assumes that you have no prior knowledge experience or skills so you can use the larkin and smith pattern to learn to make historical dress the period way right from the start and then guess what you'll be able to use a mill farm pattern with its generally excellent but much briefer sparser instructions if you're hungry for variety then go back and pick up a jp ryan pattern to get the pattern pieces then use the knowledge you've gained from larkin and smith and mill farm maybe even using the bulk of the instructions step by step to make those garments too once you've done all those you still want more on to gridded patterns gridded patterns you may have seen these before heard of them before they're basically drawings that that lay out the pieces of a garment on a gridded paper and these are often spoken of as if they're reserved for advanced sewing experienced dressmakers who experience historical dressmakers but that's usually because people aren't quite clear about how gridded patterns work and how to put them to good use for you so let's first have a quick look at each of the main five books that just come up often when we're talking about gridded patterns including one in fact that doesn't even have any patterns in it at all and then we'll talk about how they work and what value they have for you so first of all we have patterns of fashion one by jan arnold that's very well known then we have costume close-up by linda bomb gartner with a couple of her colleagues at colonial womensburg we have fitting improper by sharon and burnston we have the cut of women's clothes by noir wall and lastly we have costume in detail by nancy bradfield now we're going to use similar criteria as we did with the pattern to determine what their strengths are perhaps what their weaknesses are what they can best be used for so starting with patterns of fashion one the first in jan arnold's series i'm going to look at whether they contain a gridded pattern whether they contain construction notes and whether they include instructions or assembly now these don't come in a pattern pack they are collections of lots and lots of different styles so it's a little different than what you might get what you would expect to get in a packet of a pattern to make something so patterns of fashion one yes we have a gridded pattern but something that tells us what the pieces look like do we have construction notes oh yes we have lots here is i'm going to use this one as an example here we go this one and it gives a description of the fabric the linings on the pattern pieces it indicates slash marks buttonhole stitch around a raw edge small tuck here um and it identifies the pieces you're actually looking at um even identifies where on this piece of the side of the front bodice piece where the slave is going to attach to that's useful notes that a drawstring runs under the trimming from the shoulder piece of the center front to pull in the neckline so you've got notes about the construction do you have instructions for assembly where to start what to do in the order to do them no you do not the details for this particular style this particular gown is that those drawings brief description here and a single page with the gridded pattern the next one costume close-up gown i was looking at here it's a gown and stomacher here you have a the pattern pieces all laid out and a bit of a drawing with some detail there um the grid doesn't run in lines all the way across so to actually see all those grids you would need to trace these out and draw the lines yourself um but the scale is here and they give it an inches on one side um and centimeters on another side but it is to scale so it's not full size you will need to understand what the scale is and scale it up if you were to use um any of this in in making a uh in making a garment but we do have a gridded pattern construction notes yes we have a few pages of construction notes uh with subheadings we've got details here on the fabric on the the some basic measurements we've got materials uh some marks of some alterations some changes over time we've got some notes on specific aspects of the gown construction but we have not got anything about the order of construction what where you start which of these bits the gown construction is categorized by sort of type of you know construction sort of um approach um because you've got a thing on the the bodice back you've got something on the skirt you've got something about the stitching um oh it's a few more pages excuse me what about that some details on the bodice front the sleeves the sleeve trim the stomacher construction but that's not necessarily the order that the text is laid out it's not necessarily the order that you would make the gown in it's just broken down into components uh and described in detail there so we don't really have right we don't have instructions for assembly patterns fashion one and we do not have um we how about how do i want to mark this with an x construction notes no instructions for assembly next fitting improper and the gown i'm looking at here is actually this gown we have a couple of pages of description gown made this dated to 1740 to 16 then later altered so you have a page showing a gridded pattern this is on a grid right you can see what you've got there three pages on that gown and we have a gridded pattern construction notes talking about the features that are noted and how they've been done but not step by step in order instructions for assembly begin to see a pattern here next we have nor a wall which begins to get a little even sparser information one I've selected here has a rough inch rulers down the side and basic skirt outline of the fabric um the bodice the lining for the front bodice and the back bodice together uh sleeves uh in that skirt and then a line drawing oh in the cuff but then there's nothing else about that dress except in the back in one of the appendices there are notes for each of the garments featured and all it does is tell you really where it is says it's a mantua the date 1740 it's a victorian and albert and it's a session number and two sentences says it's a simple closed bodied gown of heavy white damask the skirt fullness is arranged in deep plates about one inch apart and meeting at each side waist with an inverted plate that's it for construction notes extremely extremely um brief very very brief no instructions of any kind taking these in order differently than what's on my sheet here the last one is much the reverse let's see where did it go the dress that I wanted to look at in this book it's lots of line drawings including close up details and in some cases right on the inside of the gown noting stitching and oh lots and lots of details beautifully beautifully drawn but no gridded patterns setting out any shapes no step-by-step instructions um each garment it varies as terms in terms of what sorts of things the author has zeroed in on to talk about and to draw in detail she so there's there's not a systematic approach to knowing that no matter what gown you might pick to look at the same sorts of details are going to be um shown so that you can compare um how they were done similarly or differently it's um each one is kind of a showcase with its own approach beautifully beautifully drawn so that one there's no gridded pattern there are lots of notes on style and on construction um but as very very brief brief notes not a great deal of text but you do have some you have no instructions for assembling okay so you can see some of the similarities and differences here these five books we've looked at they don't all contain a gridded pattern and they don't all contain detailed instruction notes and none of them contain instructions for assembly none of them are going to start you at the very first step and walk you through or tell you the order even even briefly not even uh in mill farm uh fashion to at least give you headlines of knowing what needs to come before other things and work through them in order you've got nothing for assembly a couple of additional aspects to these books are featuring existing real life garments patterns are more general um but the books are looking at garments and each one of them has limitations or as the scope of what's covered in them for example patterns of fashion five is english women's dresses and their construction from 1660 to 1860 costume close-up is only garments that are in the colonial Williamsburg collection that's just one collection fitting and proper clothing from the collection of the chester county historical society so again just one collection the cut of women's clothes is very much broader ranged in terms of collections dipped into and it has a wider range too of different materials that are referenced including some fashion plates period paintings and artwork it's um it's a little bit more like a fashion history textbook rather than focusing on patterns costume in detail are only clothing from the snow's hill manner collection which is now a national trust property so again that's one collection so you can be looking at limitations uh geographically the source the provenance of these garments um sometimes that that can have an implication on the class or the social standing or the wealth of the women for whom these dresses were originally made also the time period it's going to be kind of self-selecting depending on what's available in there there is no one museum that has examples of every possible thing that you might want to know or want to look at they are collections and they have their limits so what do gridded patterns have in common the grids have been laid out over or under but they're overlaid they're overlaying drawings that were made by someone who was studying an extant garment so that person was a researcher not a pattern drafter and they wanted to note seams darts pleats wear things how things went together they might have been taking some measurements um but they would have been taking care to not stress the fabric some cases these are very fragile um so they would have been taking measurements and um estimated drawings and a notebook that were not necessarily accurate they were unable to lay out perhaps the bodice fully flat and smooth and get an accurate accurate shape off of it with those limitations they were still however aiming to sketch out the various pieces in relative proportion to each other and using a grid as a reference for scale first general proportions second and lastly to give an approximate guide on overall size the priorities again scale proportions size original fitted garments such as gowns were not made from patterns and nor were they churned out in multiples of standardized standardized sizes yes that's right none of the beautiful intricate gowns that you've got pinned or bookmarked as 18th century inspiration pieces were made from two dimensional patterns as we know them the fact is people came in all shapes and sizes back then just as now and these beautiful extant gowns were originally made each to fit the unique body of the original wearer many then also carry battle scars of later alterations whether to accommodate changes experienced by the original wearer or to try and follow changing fashions or to fit other people later on or in many cases all of those things the end result therefore as documented as documented by a researcher in our lifetime cannot reliably serve as any kind of starting point to make a brand new garment for a living person today instead the opposite is true the gridded pattern is the end point but we today on site of shapes drawn out in a way that we recognize as comprising parts of a garment we straight away think oh it's a pattern I know what to do with that because as modern makers patterns are our most prevalent frame of reference translating gridded drawings into a pattern that we can use as a starting point is a modern skill the makers of the patterns that we'd looked at earlier have all utilized to one degree or another modern pattern drafting methods as a way to translate what they know of extant garments into graded patterns in a wide range of sizes that a modern maker can understand trying to use gridded patterns as a pattern involves starting with a real woman who lived several hundred years ago who looks nothing like you she's a different size and shape from you but you're taking her garment and somehow essentially drafting usually through a series of several adjustments trials and errors trying to draft a whole new pattern that you hope will look like her surviving garment the garment that's in a museum collection and you're trying to use that record taken from this long dead woman based on the piece of clothing that she wore as you're doing a really complicated job of altering it for you that's actually much harder than just drafting a pattern yourself from scratch truly don't get me wrong it can be done there are lots and lots of videos and blogs that talk about how to scale patterns and the people who have worked out how to make it work for them have spent a lot of time energy experimentation they've shed tears if not blood in figuring this out but you know what a man to a maker of the period would be just as perplexed by seeing these gridded patterns as you are even more so because she did not start a new commission with a pattern she did not reference patterns while making the gowns that she made and she did not end up with a pattern when she was done the way that she worked was much more direct it was easier faster designed to be future proof and guaranteed to fit she might copy over her end result as a shape to be passed to her client in case it should prove useful but shapes cut in the period way have some fundamental differences to patterns as we know them today i'll get on to that in a minute so meanwhile how can you use books like these the key lies and whether you already understand the basics of how garments in the period were put together if you understand a gown then you can study construction notes and shapes on paper and use details of extent garments that have been recorded in these books to advance your skills to try new ways of doing similar things setting aside how period mantra makers worked let's see how all these patterns and books that are available to us today can be slotted together having been in your shoes a beginner myself not all that long ago i'm going to suggest that if you are a beginner you can take all these resources patterns and books in a certain logical order and put them to good use to learn best practice i'm a flowcharts person so we're going to start with a basic question do you have some experience with modern sewing probably with a sewing machine probably using the big four patterns including their costuming ranges yes or no if the answer is yes you do have some experience go here then we ask is your primary interest or goal a costume that just needs to look right but need not be constructed in the period way yep that's good enough that's what you're after yes jp ryan go forth and look fabulous that's what you need that pattern will work those patterns will work for you going back though you've got a little experience your primary interest though is you'd like period way so you've answered yes you have some experience but no your primary interest isn't bad just enough to look okay you'd like it to be constructed in the period way then i direct you to larkin and smith start from the very beginning even if you've never threaded a needle before or very proficient with your sewing machine learn as you go step by step details photos explanations if you can use a machine the instructions will tell you where and when that's appropriate and how to do it what what changes or adjustments or variations might be needed it assumes that you're sewing everything by hand but absolutely machine sewing uh can fit in with that and you will finish up with a period correct garment and a solid understanding of how it went together once you've done that are you ready to tackle more projects using your new skills want more patterns yes mill farm go try out some mill farm but don't forget with those skills you can go back to jp ryan just take the pattern pieces use what you've learned same order of construction sewing methods seaming techniques you can make that jp ryan pattern look historically accurate are you ready for more that's where the books come in books that study extent garments give you many more examples and many more um uh just they add to your repertoire of garments that you can make inspired by or even uh replicating as closely as you possibly can some of these extents that have been beautifully studied in great detail in a range of books these are not by any by any stretch the imagination the only ones but they're the ones that come up uh most frequently and that's why i've wanted to talk about them today but before you dive straight into patterns of fashion one i'd like to go back to the larkin and smith leveled in your journey starting at the very beginning because there's one book not a pattern but a book that i haven't told you about yet and i personally have found it to be an excellent roadmap on this journey to learning 18th century dressmaking and it is in fact the american dutch's guide to 18th century dressmaking we haven't got time today to do a full review of everything that's in this book but i see the table of contents we're basically looking at projects of four key styles that had their heyday at various times in the 18th century and for that gown each gown you get what looks like a gridded pattern but isn't quite and then you get all of the notes and information on all of the accessories and projects on how to make them so that you get the correct style of cap of apron of mitts of hats in most in some cases all the different things that go together to make the right look so it's not just the gown but you get the right look that pins it to a particular time and place for a coherent stepping out of a portrait outfit it starts the beginning with historic stitches and how to show them uh again it's like it's like everything that larkin and smith is but more so each project big or small has a gridded page of shapes and photographs background information uh discussions of appropriate fabrics uh and then step by step instructions fully illustrated with photographs to walk you through beginning to end in the right order to make gowns there are some very very simple uh accessories to be making to uh like burnley and troperage to do with their sew along to build up your stitching skill so that you get more even stitching and faster this is this is a great way to get started in historical sewing accurately and to get a good understanding of how it works but there are four particular reasons i want to recommend this in your journey as a beginning 18th century dressmaker wanting to learn historical techniques number one the order of construction that's taught step by step in this book is founded on period principles but has been adapted in just a few very crucial ways to enable to enable you to make garments like the gowns in the period way but acting as your own dressmaker doing most of the fitting yourself in fact with practice you may even be able to do it all yourself although to be honest the shoulder parts always go faster and with much less frustration if you have a helper number two the use of single size diagrams they're not graded like patterns so in this respect they resemble the gridded patterns in janet arnold and other books unlike a pattern these are shapes drawn in a one size that you will then use with key fitting points to produce your size so they're not graded for any kind of size these are made to adapt fit you they're not a particular size so they're not pattern pieces in fact what they really are are shapes their basic shapes as they would have been draped drawn and cut as a process on a real person that's the period way and then the book gives step by step instructions very detailed full lots of illustrations and photos to follow along beginning to end in the right order in the period correct way i've talked about shapes looking at this what do i mean by shapes commercial patterns are drafted using fairly modern pattern drafting methodology that involves creating the pattern and grading it into various sizes using mathematical formulas that are fairly standardized in today's pattern industry now the good historical styles are going to create the right styles for fitting over period garments with your stays being the critical garment but the method of translating the original pattern into different sizes is pretty much along the lines taken by any pattern maker today while the gridded patterns in books as we've discussed only tell you roughly what one person can and did wear on her body shapes however are the secret that unlock period mensual making when dressmakers made bespoke period clothing using a particular approach not too unlike modern draping but unlike modern draping they understood the style and could reproduce that onto a body and use certain key areas to ensure the perfect fit but how do you get shapes that's the real skill of the mensual maker and that i'll be delving into even more in future videos