 Ex-Minister Acquabio heads to Supreme Court after appeal court sacked him as APC's senatorial candidate. And food, energy, prices worsen and inflation is on the rise for households, even as electioneering dominates the national discourse. This is Plus Politics. I am Mary Anacorn. Vice-Chairman of the All-Progressive Congress, APC's campaign counsel, Senator Goswilo Acquabio, has said that he would approach the highest court in the land to seek redress on the appeal court's judgment, nullifying his nomination as the APC candidate for Acquabio. Northwest Central District, the court had ruled that Acquabio, being a presidential aspirant of the APC, could not participate in the valid primary of the party held on May 27, and monitored by the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC, that produced Udum as a candidate. The court ordered INEC to remove Acquabio's name from the list of senatorial candidates in Acquabio state, contesting for the 2023 general elections on Tuesday. Senator Goswilo Acquabio said his lawyers were studying the appeal court's judgment sacking him as a senatorial candidate of the All-Progressive Congress. And joining us to discuss this is Upanabua, Incotara. He is a civil rights advocate, and Izika Nyaito, who is the governorship candidate of the ADC in Acquabio state. It's good to have you gentlemen join us this evening. Yeah, it's good to have you here. Great. I'll start with you, Ms. Nyaito, because you are an Acquabio mate. And of course, you are running for a position of governor. And we all have watched the drama that has happened with the placeholder situation, which has not just been in the case of Goswilo Acquabio, and we've seen it happen for other people, including the Senate president. And here we are, again, talking about Goswilo Acquabio. Let's start by looking at the comments that he made, saying that he might have to go to a superior court to deal with the issue, and he's saying that he's studying carefully what the appeal court has said. Yeah, there are several sides of this coin. The very first side is that Mr. Acquabio is an extremely informed person, and he's a lawyer by training. Let's not forget that. And he's been a governor two terms. He's been a senator. He's been a minister. So he is by any stretch of imagination informed. But I think that there's a catch somewhere, and that catch is that a lot of people have really not come to terms with the realities of the 2022 electoral act as amended. As a result, many things will have to be tested out in the court, you know, at the legal level. So I think that what he's decided to do is, he's been well within his fundamental human rights. He has every right of appeal. And I think it would be a process of testing the waters to see exactly what is there in the 2022 electoral act as concerning who is eligible to contest. You know, it's sharply contrast with what has been in the past where the parties really just did anything they wanted. The current act, you know, tries to sanitize the system. But you see, we're still trying to find out what really is and what really isn't. But as to his decision to approach the higher court, I think it's definitely his fundamental right to so do. That's my position. I have my personal feelings about the whole thing because being from Equal Equinoe Senatorial District and understanding how the Senate works, a man like Appabio, in my personal opinion, I've always said that me and him, we are like Tom and Jerry, we fight a lot. But you can't take it from him that he is one person that he gets into the Senate today, he creates impact because he is just an impact. I mean, he is just a body of vibrancy. So to speak, but then everything must be done within the ambit of the law. So let him try it out. I think it's a good thing for him to do. Open up. Well, let's go to the basis again. How all of this started as much as, you know, the court is there and these laws are there for us to test them. The fact that political parties, especially the APC and some of their office holders in the first place decided to go through the route of this place holder situation. Shouldn't we be questioning that in the first instance? Or we're just letting it slide because you know what, these things come and go and what's most important is who wins or who emerges at the end of the day. I think that you are muted. Okay. I don't think that we can hear you, Mr. Tara. So we'll go back to Mr. Yatuk. Mr. Yatuk, I want to, you raised some points and I noted it down. I wanted to take you, you know, take you on there. I hear you now. Okay. Open up. All right. Go ahead. If you heard my question, just go ahead. Yes, I do. Okay. First and foremost, if I have to, first of all, speak on what my brother talks about, reaching our jurisprudence. Well, that's okay. No problem about that. It's also within his rights to also go to Supreme Court to reach our jurisprudence. But that doesn't appreciate the fact that there is a violation and a fracture on the electoral app. And I think what the cut of appeal is was just the dispensation of sagacity. It was to pay. In the law, there is no prohibition for placeholder, whatever name they want. There is no such prohibition. And the law is quite clear. You see, you know, I said you can buy two forms for the same election. You can't contest with two different offices simultaneously. It is completely different when I go to an electoral app. And I go to my party. Yes, with the lawyer. And I'm also surprised. I mean, he just wanted to take chances. It's as simple as that because he's a lawyer and he sees of the past. He sees of the positions of the electoral app. And he knows that what he's doing is legally wrong, completely illegal. He can't do that. What I think he's trying to do is bring his gravitas to bear, his ways to bear. The Senate president tried it and he didn't work. They almost, I'm like almost a very large extent recognized the Senate president until I think the man, the challenger, went to court. And so much he will cry about. And I think that was why they have to delete his name. He did it. They promised. He did the same thing as well. But in the case of Acpado, Acpado who is a lawyer knows too well that what he tried to do was an enslavement. And what the Court of Appeals did is, right, that is the law. In fact, they interpreted the law strictly. You cannot have two powers. The electoral app has prohibited that. You cannot, he bought the power for the presidential election. Even if he withdrew, that is not an excuse. That was going to take me two seconds from now. But we saw for that. So he went and withdrew and not evolved after. And again, the issue of the form for the senatorial candidate was even conducted before the presidential primary. So how? He withdrew the idea of the presidential primary. Maybe they had already conducted it. So at that point, an INEC itself, because the law also said INEC shall, INEC itself did not monitor that particular election primary at purview. But it's on record that INEC did monitor the elections. He was done under the purview of INEC. I listened to INEC. He said no. And the controversy was that the one that I invited INEC, INEC will refuse to come. The other, I might say no. So which one are we going to accept? But whichever case it was the senatorial form, the primaries were conducted before the presidential primaries were conducted. So how could he have purchased two forms in the same election? When I'm talking of the same electricity, how could he have done that? And this is clearly prohibited in the new electoral act. So I think what the Supreme Court did was just to interpret the electoral act the way it is. And even if he goes to the Supreme Court, which is within his right it's not a problem. Let us see if the Supreme Court would give a different interpretation to it. And what the Supreme Court says is what it is. That's the future matter. That's the final thought. So what the Supreme Court says, any interpretation the Supreme Court uses, that is what the law is. So let us go. Because that will also be a precedent. So that for further in future we are not going to have all these things. Back to you, Mr. Gaito. You do talk about the fact that Appabio is a very impactful senator. And you talked about the fact that he's made a lot of impacts. And since you are from Ecoliq Binne, kindly educate us on how many bills that he has pushed for. And how impactful his senatorial has been. I'm not trying to say that you campaigned for him, but since you are making a case for him, how impactful has he been as a senator? It's actually quite curious that I would be seen to be talking for you. For two reasons. One, we belong to two different parties. And secondly, on a personality basis he and I were like Tom and Jerry. I keep saying that Wiley was in government. We have so many areas we don't agree but we have friends and you really can tell whether we have friends or enemies or things like that. But you see there's a way that Nigeria operates. Whether you like it or not Appabio has gotten himself into the power equation of the Nigeria state. He came in as a first-time senator and guess what he was? He was a ranking member of the Senate. First time. That's called power. That's called influence. And within the Senate there is the lawmaking and there's the representation. So he might not bring up so many bills but in terms of representation he has this career, this personality that he brings to bear wherever he is because I can tell you look he went into APC and today take it or leave it he's one of the most influential persons in the APC that he just crossed into. Within days he was going around obnobbing with Mr. President I don't know how he does it but he just has his way. So within that context it's not so much in fact it's not so much how much bills that you present which is important which is important which is very important but the politics of the Senate the politics of the Nigeria state he has what it takes all we need those of us that are from his area is to kind of make sure that he brings that capacity to bear in the larger interest of the generality of the people and not to benefit him alone as individual and that makes me curious talking about power how is this power being wielded in whose favor is this power working is he wielding this power in favor of economic beneath people or is it for personal gain because from what you're telling me it looks like oh he's got all the power but what is it translating to for the people and why should I'll tell you two things I will repeat what I've said for the third time Akbabiu and I are like Tom and Jerry I believe that there's so much that you could do which have not been done but there's a saying in our language I would call 2009 which means to kill the hero and you regret the day you need him Akbabiu I believe is a vehicle that is cared for a certain day maybe he was made for a day like this I don't know that's my thinking but it's curious that I'm the one saying this because me and Akbabiu were Tom and Jerry we fight all the time but I have a lot of respect for him I would say so and besides I think he's being disqualified as it were I have a candidate that is running for the senate position and if at the end of the day he is off I think we will be the prime beneficiary because the ADC candidate happens to be his friend and somebody that he would rather throw his weight behind and so while on one hand I'm like well well well he's good on the other hand I'm like Lord should he come to be I'm the primary beneficiary so any which way I think that the larger interest of the state and our people the generality of our people is what appeals to be more and not what benefits me or my party as an individual and besides I'm brought to this platform not as an ADC member but as a public affairs commentator so my comment must be seen to be non-partisan and relatively objective relatively objective Interesting Back to you Abu Dhabi, I know where that laughter is coming from but let's talk about party politics now Awkwabiya is a member of the APC and we know that as we speak right now the APC in Awkwabiya State is divided there are factions within the party but then of course the party had said that no matter what INEC stands is on don't forget INEC as we all know is an authority when it comes to electioneering and the processes that are involved in it well the APC is saying that no matter what the stance is Awkwabiya will be elected Senator come 2023 let's go back to violating the electoral act and parties doing whatever they like should INEC not be the ones on the chopping board right now being that they had allowed a lot of these things to scale through and now left it over to the courts to do it again could we also be wrong for insinuating that this might have been INEC's job and they had relicted that duty as opposed to the fact that in Nigeria when it comes to electoral issues the courts are the ones who have jurisprudence and again does it not necessarily have like an after effect to an aftermath on our processes the question is more difficult and so we see not just what we are looking for first things first should INEC not be have been the first in the place of dealing with this issue for it to not have gotten to this point again should INEC still not be the ones dealing with this as opposed to the courts and then I'm bringing the courts in we always leave these cases for the court hence why electoral calendars the way it is well what about this I mean it is the right of the disputers to go to court and it is the most similar thing to do especially when accommodations could not be reached and in situations like this definitely you don't expect any compromise from the disputers it's not possible and so even if INEC takes a position any party will even go to court because the court will definitely have the final so what INEC did is okay but for the party to say that really need a party was going to represent and then it is a thing that will get it to itself the party doesn't have because whatever the court says is what would be and that is what INEC would go to that is the truth and where INEC declared as a candidate because it is INEC that will conduct the elections so where are you going to declare a party the candidate INEC says he is not the candidate how are you going to do this if not they will not even be on the ballot to start what the court says is they will not delete it they will delete it so how are you going to vote for him and even if they go ahead to vote and if they don't give you votes for that party then it simply means APC will not have a candidate in the forthcoming general election it is as simple as that so here is another argument they should pray that the supreme court decides otherwise if the supreme court will uphold the judgment of the court of appeal that is final there is nothing they can do and just like even Akkadu himself who is the lawyer, the minister in temple of joseph rightly said he told his supporters he enshrined them he said he can't still go ahead with your campaign in order not to dampen the spirit of his followers he said go ahead with your campaign they can't let us wait for the supreme court judgment my lawyers are vexed with judgment and they will come up with a position Akkadu himself knows he is a lawyer when he says his lawyers are vexed he is not going to resign everything to them because he is the only lawyer so he knows probably one day Akkadu said do we need to go leaving Akkadu to go to supreme court you know why? for twin reasons the first one is that there will be a case of residue that will be final nailed on that copy you are not going to have such matters again in court because all you need to do is act in reliance upon the judgment of the supreme court in subsequent issues so you are not going to have a rehash of this kind of situation that is number one and number two and number two the issue of whether who is going to present the candidate in the fourth country would have to settle that is for this reason I wanted to put the supreme court I don't want to pre-empt what the supreme court will say but I think I can conjecture what the judgment will be although our courts cannot be trusted I say that with all amount of modest we can't limit trust to our courts because judgments are not secure but because it is the supreme court who are we going to get sagacity might be great but the supreme court in itself have failed Nigerians on so many occasions including the emo state case and the format case of river state in 3000 or 3000 or so on so the supreme court has failed Nigerians on several occasions but having said this the APC cannot say we really need the APC to be on that balance okay let me come back to you I think that has frozen talking about judiciary here I want to make it front and center let's examine the role of the judiciary in our electoral process and how well they've done now we're going to an election that as usual when it comes to this time we hear rhetoric like oh this is a make this is the one that's going to change the entirety of Nigeria's future etc etc I'm sure that you heard all that maybe you're one of those who is throwing that around but how well has the judiciary helped our electoral process and if it hasn't why have we continued to go around in this circles is there be any circle can you hear me can you hear me yes go ahead please good I was in the airport and I'm trying to board a flight when you know at the airport you hear all sorts of things and I overheard a comment from somebody that made me feel really bad really really bad concerning the judiciary somebody told me a particular election I hope you're still here okay particularly I don't want to be specific about the state or about the office but he said this guy is going to win at the lower court he's going to win at the you know court of appeal but he's going to lose a particular case not a fabulous case he's going to lose at the supreme court and the other guy asked him why are you so he said because I was unfortunate enough to overhear a judge say that there is no medal for giving the right judgment that this is their own time to get their own bite on the pie that the supreme court they are on the retirement so they can afford to close their eye to justice and make sure that the right thing is done but that at this our level there is no medal for giving the right judgment so what do they do they go for the highest bidder now I felt really depressed for a long time and why I felt depressed was because if you really look at the fact of the case there seem to be some aorta of if I may call it an aorta a reasonable substance of truth the judgements are just to me as a layman as an architect who just reads the looking at the interpretation of the judgment they just don't I just don't get it at all so coming back to where we are are you still there can you hear me yes yes yes yes I don't know where you lost me for a second you said coming back to where we are yes in a quite for instance we have four main parties and you can see this other one is like there's the PDP they have a major case in court seriously there's NNPP and YPP now when you look at the current electoral act and whether you can buy two forms those two people bought two forms how it ends up it doesn't end up I don't know and then there's AGC where I'm involved now this man here is an APC who is today not there on the ballot but they are hoping they can get on the ballot but when you look at it I seem to be the only person that has no skeletons no issues I went through the primaries I was alone and then came up so no case in court no issues with electoral act so that if care is not taken it might just come to a situation where I'm probably the only person on the ballot on the major you know contenders and so testing out the electoral act and coming to resolve the issue of buying two forms or not buying two forms placeholders or no placeholders when the supreme court gives final judgment on those cases and they are not wanting to be politically correct but they interpret the law not manding whose oath is God at this point I think that we will start to have an extremely sane electoral process going forward I just pray that God will give our judges particularly supreme court level that that presence of mind and that rationalistic instinct to stand on the side of what justice are not wanting to be politically correct okay finally open up before we go whatever the supreme court judgment turns out to be and we're not trying to preempt it what do you think this would do to those who think that they can subvert the system especially the electoral act as amended that's you know will also be consequent upon the judgment itself if for example the judgment is in safe with the strict interpretation of the electoral act of course it will serve us in less to Nigeria's that nobody's above the law so in future elections Nigeria's politicians to study the electoral to ensure that there are no infractions because they will be disqualified eventually but if the judgment is the other way around if the if the rule of law if justice is some practice to speak then it's going to also serve as an encouragement to politicians that yes it depends on your width it depends on your gravity if you have that cloud you can get away with anything and that will make no sense of the electoral act and also no sense of our laws because the law will now be meant for just the first thing who does not have the cloud once you obtain the particular statutes in the society of course you are now bigger than the law the law doesn't apply to and that will be a wrong precedent completely wrong if today you interpret the law strict censorship in favor of Mr. A and tomorrow it is not in favor of Mr. B like the Supreme Court has done in some cases in the past then you are also going to cause some form of confusion because which judgment will the law cause to rely on which judgment and that is where you have conflicting judgments that is where you have the confusion which and the Supreme Court to the Supreme Court you might only go to the Supreme Court then the Supreme Court in trying to redeem his image will not come up with that judgment and you have to take off the judgment from the Supreme Court because then Mr. A the judgment is in my favor Mr. B said the judgment is in my favor and they all go there what happens if I say they are not going to recognize me they all have judgments in their favor so what do you do that is a judgment so the Supreme Court will first and foremost like my brother rightly said first and foremost we are nationalistic it is just this but we are patriotic they must consider first and foremost the interest of the nation the peace and stability of this nation in deciding not minding whose office is gone that is what we expect so on that day whether the judgment is given I just pray that it is going to be in line whether the electoral act is legitimate or not I am not talking of legal I am talking of legitimacy but I am not legal whether the electoral act is legitimate or not it is immaterial for now it is the act and we are starting the Supreme Court's judgment to be in strict consonance with that electoral act all right well I want to say thank you gentlemen what happens at the end of the day remains to be seen but Uppunaboyin Kotara is a civil rights advocate and Izikal Nyaitog is a public affairs analyst and the governorship candidate of the ADC in Alquibam State always a pleasure gentlemen thank you so much for being on the show all right well thank you for staying with us we will take a short break now when we get back we will be discussing the worsening food and energy prices in Nigeria and what is the hope for the average Nigerian to stay with us