 Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining our Accelerating Women in Leadership session today. My name is Michelle Anthony. I'm the Chief Revenue Officer at LHH, we're the world's leading career transition and talent development company. I'm very excited to be joined today by Vince Molinaro, the founder and CEO of the Leadership Contract, Inc., as well as a prominent advisor and author. And also today, I'm joined by Kit Krugman. She is the head of Organizational and Cultural Design for the Co-Collective, a strategic consultancy firm. So Vince and Kit, I think the first question we may want to tackle today is the COVID-19 crisis and how has the pandemic changed expectations of women leaders? Kit, over to you first for your thoughts. Thank you, Michelle. I'm really pleased to be here. So, you know, I think we need to start off with the fact that the expectations of women both in the workforce and at home have not really meaningfully changed. And I think that that has become particularly acute during COVID where the pressures and expectation at home are particularly pronounced because of the lack of childcare outside of the home. I was recently reading the McKinsey report on women in the workforce and it actually mentioned that nearly 2 million women are actually considering leaving the workforce. So this just shows the real gravity of the challenge that we're facing and how important it is for organizations right now to think about how do you support women in the organization all up and particularly women in leadership because we already have a challenge of not having enough women in leadership in general. Yes, very fair point. And that 2 million number is staggering and would be a real loss. So it just highlights how important this issue really is for all organizations. Vince, through the clients that you partner with and advise, how have you seen the pandemic sort of surface around this area of women leaders and expectations? Well, I think building on what Kit said and thanks for having me be part of this panel and be part of the conference. Quite excited to have this conversation with you both. So what I'm finding is pretty much what Kit has experienced is like any kind of crisis, it amplifies areas that are weak and organizations that have not paid attention to diversity, inclusion and equity. It really plays out and the problems are manifested even more. What I have seen is companies really send messages to their managers and to their leaders to really dial up empathy at this point in time, to be really respectful of their teams, their people and their women because of exactly the conditions that they're facing in terms of the increased demands. And so that empathy helps and I think that empathy is going to be critical as we come out of this because I think that's a foundational element of being open, being inclusive is having that sense of empathy and that sense of respect and dignity for others. So I'm seeing that certainly play out and then day to day I'm really seeing managers do take a really concerted effort on how they are managing their teams and really paying more attention to the personal lives of their employees in ways that they probably haven't done so pre-pandemic and that I think is a good sign, long way to go for sure but certainly with the clients I'm working with, I'm seeing those things as positive evolutions. Super and I know Vince you had indicated in a previous conversation that we had that it was important for I think women to feel heard that you had seen that surface in organization. So any tips or tactics you've seen companies successfully employ to hear that collective voice or to be more empathetic? Well you know a tangible recent experience with a client that you know they had a among the senior leadership team that we worked with they had a 60-40 split 60% men 40% women so on the surface pretty good gender balance right. So senior senior leaders and yet what we found in the program is we also found that the 40% of the women were extremely strong leaders and were really impressed with how they showed up so strength there and the company was investing in their development. But when we were facilitating a session with the leaders what became clear was that one of the day-to-day issues that the male leaders were not even aware of was how they inadvertently kind of silenced the women you know that there was a creative organization so a lot of creative type of individuals passionate about their work and the men would dominate in meetings and in conversations and some women while they were quite strong and confident found that they didn't have the airspace to interject and when this finally became a dynamic that we opened up it was a was one of the most amazing conversations I've seen because for the men they realized how much this was a blind spot for them. And they realized that some of this for most of them wasn't done with intent and and for the women they some of them had to realize how they just needed to kind of step up a little more to make sure their voice what was heard and so we kind of got to a place of helping them work through how they can kind of catch themselves in future meetings to avoid that dynamic. So what I'm really appreciating you know about diversity inclusion and equity is like we don't need any more research on this topic that there's enough data out there that tells us it's a problem right World Economic Forum says it's going to take us 170 years to get to gender parity if we keep doing what we're doing so that's not good enough and so we've got to pay attention to what are we doing every single day what am I doing as a leader in my own company my own business and what are we doing with our teams and I think that's coupled with what organizations are doing more strategically and from a policy standpoint is what we need to do and so as a leadership advisor I'm more interested in how do we really help leaders acquire the mindsets and the skills to excel at this area and so that one client experience was really eye-opening. Yeah thank you for sharing that story that's amazing and thinking about leadership skills I think perhaps maybe the next question might be you know we've seen in the media a lot lately a lot of research around how successful some female leaders have been and leading their countries or companies through the COVID-19 crisis Kit I'd love to get your perspective on perhaps why is that. Yeah Michelle I'd be happy to happy to address that I wanted to just say one thing just about what Vince just shared that was evoked for me I work with a lot of women in the innovation sector and work with a lot of companies that are trying to build innovation capacity or capabilities as well and one of the things that I've run into in a lot of the work and in a lot of the conversations I've had with individual women is the social expectation for women to make others comfortable and one of the one of the biggest challenges and frustrating things about that is that in when you're doing innovation work as we all know the key is to take risks to do things that are a little bit outside of the comfort zone and it there's a real challenge going back Vince to what you shared if the social expectations that the women in the room are making people comfortable then it becomes a lot harder for them to share that kind of provocative thought or idea and so I just wanted to double down on I think an awareness around around the social expectations that we all carry into the work that we do around what is a woman's role in the workplace and how it can have complexity nuance and range that extends beyond some of the historical and social expectations of women so I just wanted to I just wanted to add that before I went into the next question on the question of women in leadership I've been so you know we've been the many of the communities that I'm in of women who are supporting other women have been really celebrating over the past couple months even even though it's been very challenging times for women the incredible examples of leadership that's being demonstrated by women like and you know I think there's a there's a couple things that that comes down to you know it's it's controversial also to say that it's it's it's female leadership that is is unique I think it's just great leadership right that's that's where we start it's great leadership and the fact that women in particular are demonstrating those great leadership skills is personally not a surprise to me but also yet another symbol hopefully to young women of the possibility of them holding those power positions and seeing what authority looks like when women take it up so you know I think some of the the characteristics and attributes of what we've been seeing and women taking on those leadership and authority positions are decisiveness right so Jacinda Ardern in in New Zealand obviously incredibly decides have locked down very early and very human and very empathetic Vince as you mentioned in terms of really trying to to be in the experience with her people very and bringing her whole authentic self to that so I think that she's just incredible Angela Merkel is another example who who really was doing some great leadership modeling saying I am taking this seriously and therefore you should too and here's why and I think that I think leadership modeling is one of the single most influential and important things that a leader can do in terms of asking others to behave in a certain way and you know we haven't been able to see that in in our country as well yeah if I can Michelle I like to build on on on the points because Kate you're so right I mean I was I was in New Zealand on a business trip two weeks after the you know the tragic massacre at Christchurch and being there and seeing you know how you know Jacinda Ardern's leadership just resonated with you know folks in New Zealand but more importantly how that story resonated around the world and how she was held up as a model and you're absolutely right it's not about female leadership or male leadership as a leadership advisor I want great leadership from everybody we need great leadership from everybody male or female or whoever and and so and I you know my sense is what we're seeing is this combination of there is there is fierce resolve there is decisiveness there is this termination and coupled with this sense of relating to what others are going through that empathy that really seems to speak to people at this moment in time and and we're we are seeing other examples that are completely opposite of that right now and you can just see how it you know and and so what I always look for is you know the visceral response from people who are being led and her is the one example but the other women as well is that people want to follow them because at a time of crisis you know when we are like the time we're facing now as human beings we naturally look to our leaders and so that modeling that you speak to kid is is really really critical so it's exciting to see just great leadership full stop and the fact that it happens to the a lot of women in political roles or political leaders running their countries is no coincidence and it's it's great to see that playing out and there's lots to learn from what they're doing and their styles are very unique from each other right they're very very different but it's just great to see how they're managing the complexity of our times so well right now yeah indeed thanks thanks for sharing that I think if we think about that that empathy and that inclusivity that you both have referenced how can organizations drive a more inclusive culture I think what advice would you have to impart I guess starting with you kit on on that from a culture perspective so part of the challenge I really think is that going back to leadership modeling leadership does a lot of design of the organization both unconsciously and consciously right so consciously in making decisions about policies and processes and what matters and what is rewarded and unconsciously in their behavior and what they recognize who they promote and part of the challenge is when you have leadership that is not necessarily representative of the broader community you design for the leadership so you design around your needs and when I think about creating cultures of inclusion I think about actually designing taking a user-centric view right and in this case an employee-centric view how do we actually design around the needs of those who are active participants in the ecosystem and and often those we serve right we think about organizations that are made up of predominantly men serving communities of women designing products for women right obviously at the end of the day the those products don't necessarily if unless they've really taken into account the voice and the experience and the unique attributes of the women they're serving the same is true with having a predominantly white organization that's serving communities of color right we need to think about how do we actually include the voice of those who are ultimately designing for ultimately impacting in order to actually design a system that works for all not just for that top echelon yeah very fair point and and how have you seen have you seen that phenomenon events and the the clients that you're working with and and how have you seen you know strong intensive cultures developed well you know in many in many ways it gets back to what kit says right it's it's what's the tone being said at the top you know I think a lot of times senior executive teams don't appreciate how much you know the collective tone that they set and how much employees infer from their behavior or the messages that that they put forward so it really is this sense of being really really deliberate and I think it gets back to you know if I'm the CEO I have I spend time really thinking about this myself you know working with a client now and chatting with you know the CEO of a company in a kind of health products field and for them the trigger around diversity inclusion and equity was was really you know the tragic death of George Floyd that put a spotlight on systemic racism but for them what they started to to to realize is as they started to really think about you know the the how they were treating employees of any kind of diversity they just started to realize that you know even in as she said in the conversation is even when they think about women in leadership it's it's not a homogeneous population that there are there are you know there are needs that are diverse even within that right and and so they've been going through quite a bit of work the senior team in in training around unconscious bias having the kinds of conversations with their employees and understanding from the employee perspective how they're feeling you know those who are feeling marginalized those who are not feeling heard those who are who really aren't feeling like I don't think you really get me and get where I'm where I'm coming from and and you know what she's saying you know what she said is it's it's it's tremendous tremendously difficult work to really peel back and kind of get at you know how you think how you've been conditioned what are some of those social expectations that kept reference that are there but we're not even aware of them and we operate kind of on autopilot so I think for a lot of you know senior executives who need to set the tone I think they need to appreciate the kind of personal work they have to do to really get at this if they're going to kind of set that kind of modeling that we need today and then once they do that then anyone in a leadership role whether you're a middle manager or front line leader or team lead because of the role you've kind of got to do that yourself because ultimately you know you are you know every leader and manager needs to ask themselves what am I doing from an inclusion standpoint what am I doing from a diversity standpoint exclusive of what our company policies are I can still control my team I can I can control who I bring on my team how I relate to my team and and those are the things that I think are the emerging questions and the dialogue that I'm having with some of my clients yeah well that's great that that awareness it it reminds me of a training I actually just went through inclusivity training so it was great to see that the company invest in that and there was a professor from Michigan State University that led it and and it was all about how our brains are wired the science of the brain and how we are hardwired unbeknownst to us to have these unconscious biases so really the big takeaway there was just mindfulness and intention right which I think is exactly what what you were sharing then so so thank you for that I guess to continue advancing the conversation just a little bit I know we always like to receive really practical tactical advice sometimes as leaders so what advice would you have for leadership teams on how they can better support women in the workforce back over to you kit yeah well I think I actually believe it starts with exactly what Vince was sharing and and Michelle what you're echoing which is really do being willing to do the work starting with yourself like I think I think that you know I take a systems view and it's itself itself in system it's self in group and all of those different dynamics you're bringing both these unconscious biases unconscious assumptions to the table as well as all these kinds of conscious assumptions and so it's it's a life's work to try to understand those I think that you know and you have to have incredible learning agility and the ability to be interested in growth and self-growth in order to take that lens and say you know what I want to really challenge myself and I want to really understand what I'm bringing to the table and these dynamics and these relationships so I think it absolutely starts with the self that said I think it is also really important to look at the system you've designed and that goes from everything to the little policies you know policies I think policies end up feeling like something that is administrator but at the end of the day they end up being incredibly powerful in the lived experience of your community and so looking for inequity in policies I think you know I use the example of parental leave which is there's been a lot of work done over the past years on creating more equitable parental leave but as long as we have a system where primary caregiver leave which is predominantly women not always of course is much longer than secondary caregiver leave which is unique to the US as well right like that's a that's not standard across the world then you end up having a situation where women are at a disadvantage when they're building a family with a partner so I think I think things like that where you you look at the system and by the way there are there are companies that have equal parental leave for instance that that socially or culturally don't encourage that the secondary caregiver takes that leave or that secondary caregiver will be judged or chastised so I think things like that you really have to look at your system and say am I really supporting women throughout the experience of being in the workforce am I providing the support sponsorship community education all of the systemic pieces of supporting anyone in the workforce and making sure that that is really equitable and even yeah very fair and then some other thoughts to add on how to help how to help leadership teams better support women in the workforce well you know I I'll just sort of counterbalance because kids kids response provided a great you know systems view and I think in many ways I'm going to personalize it you know because as a leadership advisor you know that that's what I ultimately do and when I talk about accountability at the end of the day it's what am I doing what am I doing every single day you know for example if you you know you look at your own team what's the gender balance on that team to what extent are you aware of what what people are dealing with personally so you can better support them to manage home manage work you know where necessary how do you create a team environment where everyone feels like they've got a voice and and don't feel like they're they're drowned out or or silenced by more dominant voices you know to what extent as a leader do you showcase your talent to others in the organization so the key accomplishments you know that that women have had on your team do others the more senior leaders are they aware of that are you an advocate for them are you looking for ways to support the development by aligning them with with mentors within the company who can guide and support them I mean right there there's probably 10 things that I talked about that probably every manager could do and if every manager even did three of those things we would be really advancing the role of women in leadership and organizations in a dramatic way but you know I think the you know kit the other astute point was we have to understand that it is it is work we have to do on ourselves and and certainly for men because I do believe men are a critical part of the solution here they have to be otherwise we just won't get there as quickly as we need to and you know and I look at you know I've got I've got three kids my two oldest are our boys my daughter who is 17 and when she was in grade eight um she had to do this speech competition that they that they had in school and she took the topic of the role of women at work and I was just really curious to see how she was going to approach the the topic and one day she comes to me just frustrated and upset and confused kind of going you know dad women don't get paid as much as men for the same job I go yeah I know that and and she kept looking at all of these things and what struck me was I said well did you ever think that that would happen to go no why would I and I thought actually that's a good thing she she actually thought she'd have an equal say uh you know equal pay for her contribution so that's how she grew up and that to me is also an important driver of change is is how uh you know the the next generation coming in it's coming in with different expectations I don't think they're going to settle for a leader who is going to marginalize them treat them without respect and dignity and so I think employees will will nudge and push and and and prod managers those who are are not willing to acquire the the skill sets the mindsets and set the tone that you know women young women employees and leaders will want yeah very very point expectations certainly are evolving and changing and and the bar is is being raised um of leaders for sure um kit I think it would be great as a strong female leader yourself um it would be great if you could share um a little bit about what's been helpful to you as a female leader throughout your career what sort of tactics or strategies have you employed for yourself yeah thank you Michelle um Vince I'm smiling because your your anecdote is making me think of a story that my mom loves to tell to me which I'll just tell really quickly um in fourth grade my fourth grade teacher used to have a tradition of every single week she would put up one of the names of a young girl in class and a young boy and she would encourage all the other students to write things and write nice things about them and when my name was up one week my mom came in to saw it on the on the board and the students had written it was it was me and this other student named Andrew and on Andrew they had written smart intelligent you know insightful and on mine they had written pretty nice kind and by the way at that's at that stage Andrew and I were both great students and so it really does begin early in terms of how we talk about women and men and boys and girls and so I think our our individual work too is also to think about early on how do we how do we treat and talk about and build expectations around our roles that that women and men should take up both in in the workplace and and in the home so I just that that just above that for me in terms of what has been really helpful for me a couple of things one I've had the privilege of seeing from a young age extraordinary leadership in in women um you know I have I have some leaders in my family my aunt is an incredible um powerful um leader who I admired from a young age and so seeing leadership modeled authority and power taken up by women in my life has been um has set the standard for me to say you know that I know that I can take that up and that has been really inspiring to me and that's continued in the form of seeing manager managers and leaders who are just incredible leaders and modeling that for me and then the second piece is you know community I think that the communities that I've been a part of whether that's other women who are interested in in growth and learning from each other or with men who are interested in supporting women since as you said it's not you know it's not just about women getting together supporting other women but also about men supporting women so I think great sponsorship great support great modeling and also finding communities that really drive you forward for me um women in innovation is a community that I've been in deeply involved with for a number of years and that community has inspired me challenged me and and taught me a lot about my own leadership and about the leadership of others so great thank you for sharing that and I think as I reflect on my career I there's really three things I think that have been defining moments for me are really helpful you know for me personally to help me continue to grow as a leader and the first was sort of taking stock and resetting the expectations of myself um and what success looks like and that was most important after I had our second child so my girls are 17 and 14 now so that was well over a decade ago um but really that that you know that struggle I think so many of us face with work-life balance and then you sort of learn that there is no such thing as balance you know you you hope that on the whole you get it right by focusing your energy where it matters most in a given day or a given week and so I had to really shift my thinking from time management to energy management and making sure I was saving my energy my positive energy for the moments that mattered most in a given day or a given week um and planning for that so that was a big a big aha for me um the second one is um not you know it's not a sign of weakness to ask for help um there genuinely people really want for you what you want for yourself and your ability to articulate that and ask for help a lot of people will really come on board and really help I'm I'm fortunate in that you know we're in the business of coaching and we have an amazing set of coaches um so I have a coach right now um and there's just different points in my career um whether it was taking on a new job or a new role or a new boss is coming into the organization what have you there are moments where I think you know we could all benefit from a little professional help you know so to speak um and then the third one is is something you both touched on early on in our conversation which is create safe spaces and and and give people grace um to to bring their authentic selves you know to work and that has been more important now in a COVID world than ever ever before um and so really making concerted efforts to do that and and a lot of bonding and humor actually comes from that um when when you see you know the more holistic selves you know of your colleagues coming to work so in an odd sort of way even though we're really virtual right now we have really bonded in new and meaningful ways um I think is a team so so those are just things that that come to mind um for me as well well gosh uh our time has flown by um Kit and Vence I really appreciate the richness of the conversation and all the great stories and experiences you've shared uh I want to wish everyone uh a great rest of your day at the conference and uh all the best take care thanks Michelle and thank you for leading us in this conversation my pleasure thanks Michelle thanks Kit