 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. We've had in the past few days a lot of controversy of senior army officers, Air Force and other defense services officers writing to the president saying that the way army is being politicized, the defense services are being politicized is wrong. The effort was led by three senior defense services officers. One was Admiral Ramdas, other was Major General Bombat Kare and we have with us Major Chaudhary, Priyadarshi Chaudhary who's also been one of the people who's organized the signature campaigns. The whole controversy started from the fact that two of the officers were alleged to have withdrawn their signatures and this whole attempt by more than 150 officers written to the president. The whole effort was sought to be undermined by calling it fake news. Major Priyadarshi, how do you look at this attempt because A&I seems to have been in the center of this effort to delegitimize the entire signature campaign by saying that hey, two officers have withdrawn, most of the signatures could be fake and giving it the color of fake news. We cannot fathom why A&I did what it did. The fact remains that the veteran fraternity was extremely anguished about the sort of politicization that was being done. Post-Pulwama, it started post-Pulwama. Actually it started in 2016 post the surgical strikes but in the ongoing elections, Lok Sabha 2019, it started post-Pulwama, then Balakot and after that. So after that, when Yogi Adityanath and Mukhtar Abbasanakvi started addressing rallies and addressed the armed forces as saying that the Modi Kishena, that's the time when Admiral Ramdas wrote to the EC and complained. The EC issued an advisory to all political parties to desist. It also cautioned Yogi Adityanath not to do this again. It did not stop there. It did not stop. Most BJP leaders continued to do it including the Prime Minister. That's the time when we thought we must use the available institutional mechanism available to us and write to the Supreme Commander. President being the Supreme Commander of the Defence Forces. Correct. So 156 officers including 8 Chiefs signed on the document. Former Chiefs. Former Chiefs endorsed the document by email and primarily on emails. And we had kept the records. When I sent out the mail, in the morning I was surprised to find out that the Defence Minister had called us as fake and vested interests and what not. So I was extremely surprised and then I realized that two of our Chiefs had given public statements saying that they had not signed. They were General Rodrigues and Air Marshal Suri. So if you look at my tweet thread, the Chiefs took a stance and we respected their views. So we didn't counter them. I see that you have said that they are my senior officers. If they have said it for whatever may be the reason, I will not contest it. But there is record on your computers that they are actually given their consent. They either forgot about it or had second thoughts. Or misunderstood the entire exercise. That is also a possibility. There was immense pressure on us from other officers who were saying that our credibility is being put on line by the Raksha Mantri and ANI and various news channels. So why aren't you releasing the proof? We held on to it as much as we thought it will die down. It did not. So effectively then we were forced to release the proofs. And this has been produced by wire and news central 24-7. Correct. General ML Naidu from a vice chief was also in the news if you see on that day on 12th morning. They were saying three senior officers have withdrawn. ANI quoted General Naidu. But General Naidu wrote back to us immediately with the videos and documents saying that I have not by firmly endorsed the stand that has been taken by the veterans. And ANI is misquoting me. So we released that proof also which News Central carried. Wire went to the extent of sending somebody to examine our computers and taking on proof. General Bombat Karis computer. Correct. Which they did. And then wire carried that story. After that we waited for a few days hoping that ANI would apologize or retract the stories which did not happen. Then we were constrained and anguished enough to write to Thomson Reuters. We knew Thomson Reuters had done a strategic investment in June 2018 with ANI holding 49% stake. So we wrote to Thomson Reuters and asked them some pertinent questions. You basically asked them what is their stand on ANI's behavior in this case? Also editorial content, do the due diligence, all of that. There are four questions which is in the public domain which I have asked. I wrote. Let me make this categorically clear. I wrote because I was anguished enough. It does not imply that all the 156 and subsequently 422 officers are there have signed on, have subscribed to my actions. What you are saying is now from the 156 original sig data. That is to the president. That's the president. Now we have the total number is 422 now. It's an ongoing campaign because the Rastapati Bhavan said that they, first they said they denied they have received anything but no mail said bounced. And when journalists kept on asking us Rastapati Bhavan is denying this, we said it's an open letter. Any way we are sending physical copies which we dispatched. We have delivery receipts from India Post by Speed Post and Registered Post that they had received. So telegraph spoke to the press secretary of Rastapati Bhavan and asked. So which he confirmed that he has received the letters but they are not ink signed which I find absolutely ridiculous in today's day and age. Till date Rastapati Bhavan refuses to take cognizance of it and the EC also. My question to the EC is if you had issued a caution and an advisory and you cautioned Yogi Adityanath, what is stopping you from cautioning the prime minister or anybody else who is doing it? But coming back to the story about A&I and Thompson Reuters. What is the Thompson Reuters position after you brought this out? Particularly as they are a foreign entity and this is the Indian elections are going on. A&I's attempt appears to be a blatant effort to misguide the voters. I have written that very clearly that the bias and malicious reporting that A&I is doing is not only slander but also tantamounts to perfidious reporting and with the view to influencing the ongoing elections. And I have asked Thompson Reuters categorically that as a listed entity of the US, you are bound by a certain code of conduct, code of ethics that are there. There is an ethics committee there. There is also the mission statement that is there that they do business in an ethical manner. We have pointed those things out. So when I wrote to that and I asked for acknowledgement, Joel Ivory Hart, one of the communications person, wrote back to me saying that they have received them and they are processing it. I wrote back to them saying that, listen, we do not have the luxury of time these ongoing elections and A&I continues to do what it is doing and it is not healthy for us as a country or as a democracy. So they acknowledge that mail also and they will process it in view of the second mail that I wrote back to them. One day after that they wrote back to us saying that we should contact A&I directly for resolution of this complaint. To which I replied back, are you washing your hands off this entire scheme of things? And of course they have not replied back. They have not replied back. We have had discussions about what is happening in the country earlier as well as news click with you. How do you take this whole politicization of the armed forces as you called it but also the misuse of the armed forces name for electoral benefits? After all, what are the armed forces does? It does in the name of the president and it does in the name of the country. It does not do on behalf of the political party to take those actions which have been taken on behalf of the country and make it as if it is a political party which is in charge of the army or armed forces. How do you take this whole issue? If you remember Praveer we did a show here post Pulwama and we started talking about the politicization but to my mind this entire exercise is an attempt by the BJP and I am naming the BJP here and Narendra Modiji to blur the lines between the government and the political party. It is here where the danger lies. When the government takes strong actions against a race or any hits on a serving armed forces the government is well within its right to talk about it, to declare it to the press, to hold press conferences but it is not the same when you take it to the electoral stage and rallies and ask for votes based on the actions that has been done. This sort of thing has never happened in the past 70 years. I was there in military operations directed when Kargil happened. We haven't seen Vajpayee Ji doing it. Before that I was too young then to realize what Indra Randeji did otherwise but definitely during Vajpayee Ji's time I was when the entire Kargil this sort of thing never happened. This is a serious threat to democracy involving the armed forces in for demanding votes and politicizing the defence forces. We consider it as a threat absolutely to our country. You know the bigger threat is if the armed forces is politicized that the armed forces in number of countries have taken over the politics and that's a longer threat that you, the bigger threat the country carries this kind of short-sighted policies. Pakistan and China both have political armies. China is completely political. It is subservient to the party. Pakistan the armed forces control the government. Do we want a situation like that in our country? Isn't that a threat to democracy? I mean I would have thought that this is something in the 60s was discussed. If you remember there's a military coup in Pakistan after which this kind of discussion took place in India also and both the armed forces and the political establishment have actually been very cautious of this count to see that they don't politicize the armed forces. Armed forces do not directly come into politics. This is the now we shall be said the Chinese wall being breached. It is not breached yet. It's just an attempt. The armed forces ethos and traditions of the Indian army are very strong. You don't think that they'll be able to stand up for this? No, I don't think that sort of a breach will ever happen but any attempt to do so only undermines the institution. We can't afford if we do not step up and stand for what is correct then we are just on a slippery downhill path. And the fact that the retired officers have stepped up is basically giving voice to what the serving officers can't say about it. We are in very close touch with the serving fraternity. They can't speak because the freedom of speech is abrogated. It is for us to step up and spell out a concern. We have been doing this for the last four or five years. You know about it or degradation, contourment roads. We have had many shows right here in this room on all these issues. Touch upon the armed forces. But we do not ever talk about operational matters. May I just show you this? Also the other issue that has come up, you have been active in your other capacities also the chit fund issues, the fact that the chit funds have betrayed the people rather than with the money and so on. Now in this there are also charges against you that as a part of that you are political. So how would you respond to that? Prabir, I will just take you back four years on 14th of August 2015. If Narendra Modiji and BJP had not largely charged us I assure you I would have been in a corporate somewhere without doing any of this. I do not enjoy the heat and this thing of the pavement as much as I like my other thing. That is charged on who? On the veterans in Jantar Madara. With that was something which came to us as a rude, rude surprise. And thereafter the constant lies on Europe that is still going on. Well, it angers us, anguishes us. It is the very least that I can say. The fact of the devotion of the arms of the seniors in the list of the... So let me complete this. So BJP posed this thing after the entire human crime the country stood behind us gave out a pension enhancement. We call it a pension enhancement and not Europe. And they sought to take advantage of it and by launching a massive PR campaign and social media campaign saying that and they also sought to divide of fraternity to some extent they succeeded. What we did as a counter is we sought to unite the country behind us and tell the truth. So to that extent when they sought to divide we stepped up and asked the country. We fought for the country. Now the country will fight for us. We must, we owe it to the country to tell them the truth. Therefore we tied up with the Kisan's first. Last year the series of Kisan marches that happened. Jai Jawan Jai Kisan is not limited to a slogan anymore. It is percolated down to the ground. We aligned with secular forces and around issues of the people rather than focusing on any political party or any political leader. As an exercise, as a spin-off of that entire exercise we did a nine-day agitation called India Units and starting from January 30th this year 40 odd organizations came together to say that focus around people's issues rather than political issues of whatever case. One of those organizations was the CHIT fund, the PSEL ASO, ASO which is very active in doing this. We held massive rally. 40,000 people on the streets on that day came from everywhere spending their own money. So I am the national coordinator of that and we had, from 2015 we have been saying we will punish you if you do not address our issues because the time for punishment is now. We have consolidated those votes. I am being absolutely clear. We have written to the president about not politicizing the armed forces. In a democracy, we as veterans and as citizens have a role to play. We are playing that role. In a democracy, the only way you can act... After retired officers are in the cabinet. So therefore they are also... That's a different issue altogether. Let's put this once and for all. We are political creatures but we are not into electoral politics. We are a pressure group. We will continue to build the pressure and make sure that the political costs of not addressing our issues mount. Not now, even in the future. The last question. There have been a lot of questions. A lot of, shall we say, taking credit for the full Obama or taking credit for surgical strikes, air strikes. But when you come to serving army men or you talk to the BSF Javans or you talk to the CRP Javans there is a huge complaint regarding food, regarding the basic amenities and so on. If you remember, they said... Ration money being dropped, taken out, whatever. Particularly the armed forces, there is also this issue about the ration money. So what is the issue of the ration money which I believe has now... Been withdrawn. It's been withdrawn and the rates are very low. What does it really mean? It means that earlier, all serving armed forces personnel were issued rations on a certain scale to maintain the diet and considering the climatic conditions. There is a lot of scientific thought that had gone behind it. Presumably because of budget constraints the government thought it fit to withdraw the ration money and is giving, I think, 96 rupees if I'm not wrong per day, which doesn't amount to, is not enough. So when there was a hue and cry about this... When you talk about the Javans being able to fight, food is important. Food is extremely important. But when the veterans again stepped up and said that this is wrong, then the government passed an order saying that this is applicable only in peace areas rather than in the field. The armed forces personnel continue to draw rations. So that is one issue. But the majority of the armed forces are in peace areas. Well, I am not in a position to say where the bought percentage is because I don't have the data right with me. But suffice to say that there are many, many other issues also. This is just one. Degradation, contourment road, NFU, OROP, there are a series of that. On one hand, the BJP and the government claim to be nationalistic and for the armed forces on the other hand these things keep on mounting. So the essential issue is to claim the credit but not to address the problems. Well, on that note, and hope that some of the issues you have addressed will be, some of the issues that you talked about will be addressed. And we hope the Indian people at least will listen to what you are saying. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for having me. Thank you for being with us. And hope that we see you again on this and other issues. This is all the time we have for NewsClick. Thank you very much for watching NewsClick. Do come and visit our website as well.