 So one of the things about our community is Once you get it Once you're enlightened You have your aha moment of however you like to put it your epiphany about what this is all about The way we grow this community is by helping each other. It's a grassroots community. So we go out And we tell other people about it. Maybe family members, maybe friends However, you know, wherever you see a need You sort of step up and say, hey, I've got an idea for you here Go to bogleheads.org or go to bogelcenter.net Get you know get one of Jack Bogle's books when we become ambassadors for this philosophy of investing and saving and financial well-being that we have and With that we need to have an understanding When we do that What works and maybe what doesn't work, right? We all have approached people and Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't work. So we thought that today We would have a little bit of Insight into Training the trainer so you are if you consider yourself teachers you are all once you get enlightened to become Bogle heads and call yourself Bogle heads. You are actually crossed over to become ambassadors and teachers and so You know, how do we do that? So today? We have Tim Ranzetta with us who's a Bogle head bonafide Bogle head. He graduated from the University of Virginia in 1989 with a bachelor degree in commerce and received his MBA In 1996 from the Stanford Graduate School of Business. He then became a Consultant for Bain and Company and later became a successful entrepreneur he co-founded several companies and Decided to begin giving back so he started a teaching a class in 2014 in Palo Alto, California and Eventually now has morphed into a program a non-profit organization that teaches teachers how to teach this And so I'll let Tim talk about the program and But here he is Tim Ranzetta See how this mic works. I'm Italian so I like to use my hands mics don't work What an amazing community so I fit in the category of Long-time lurker on the Bogle heads forum Long-time Vanguard investor But first-time attendee and I think I've been on the ground about 24 hours now coming in from California And I feel like I found my tribe Just what an amazing amazing conversations at lunch just an amazing group So I want to ask you a question before we get started because we're talking about financial education here I want you to move a little bit too Stand up if you think personal finance should be taught in every high school in America Please stay standing Okay, you just made the headline Bogle heads stand for financial education So I want to introduce some folks here some really special folks here who are delivering Financial education in local high schools in Virginia in Maryland So I'm gonna ask them to stand don't get embarrassed now. So we have Angela. We have Starlene Julius Alice Loretta Nicole and Laurie is somewhere. I believe hey These are the folks who are These are please stay standing. I got to finish This is just an amazing community of educators that make a difference in their communities in their schools during the pandemic We did a lot of zoom professional development And I got to tell you I smiled every time I saw them on zoom because the energy Enthusiasm that they bring to this There's a movement happening across the US folks and it's happening in classrooms because of educators like yours So thank you But I also know there's other teachers in the room if you have ever taught anybody personal finance Family member maybe in the school community. Maybe a nonprofit. I ran into somebody earlier from Kansas who teaches med school students stand up Educators Thank you. So I really shouldn't be teaching this you all should be so I talked about the teachers Next thing I want to do is have you hear from the students. So there's a two and a half minute video We're gonna queue up here to hear. What is the impact of this course to them? With personal finance you take everything that happens in the real world and you bring it into the classroom It's important to learn about it while you're in high school instead of graduating out of college and having no idea You don't want to leave college and then be in debt and sometimes that debt can fall you for the rest of your adult Life when my mom was in high school. She didn't have a class like this I couldn't just ask my parents questions about like banking or finances because my parents hadn't gone through any of that Since my family didn't talk much about money. I actually didn't know anything at all. I didn't know investing with a thing I didn't even know financial literacy was a thing at all either This is really the only class that were given that's this applicable to real life I've learned how to calculate a mortgage. I've learned what ways credit card companies try to trap you These little skills right now that don't seem like they're so fundamental in the long one will really help you out and Allow you to live your life the way that you you want to live it I 100% think that all high school students should take this course I don't know how someone could be successful without knowing how to manage their money if you want kids who know How to not be in debt what a credit score is What kind of credit card options there are out there if you want them to be more knowledgeable Safer with their money as well as be better spenders than personal finance is a must So I travel a lot around the country when people find out what I do They usually say one or sometimes always say one thing sometimes two the first thing they say it's the class I wish I had The second question the second thing they say is can you teach my kids? So that's kind of what is my passion now? How do we ensure that every high school student? So gets a personal finance course. I just want you to blurt out a guess What percent of kids today? Do you think take a personal find or required? It's part of the graduation requirements What percent of kids in America currently are required to take a personal finance course? five percent 20 60 Zero okay, so here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna. I'm gonna give you a number You're gonna stand up if you think it's over this number 15% Stand up if you think more than 15% of a high school America high schoolers Okay, I'm not gonna tell you the answer till later. Thank you. Most of you think it's less than 15% I'm gonna keep that keep that in mind. So here's what we're gonna go over today. I'm gonna give you a quick Background on me who I am what motivates me gonna give you a high-level view of what's happening in America when it comes to financial education and Then I want to spend a lot of time thinking about this group How do we mobilize bogal heads who are so passionate and want to give back? So I'm gonna give you a broad range of options in terms of how you can help and then obviously there'll be resources available for you This slide looks different than it was originally. Oh, here we go starts lower left-hand corner I'm seven years old. I'm the fifth child of six our neighbor. Mrs. Baddison breaks her hips. You need somebody to walk her dog I'm the second youngest but my younger brother can't walk Because he's only two or he's only one. So I get to walk Mrs. Baddison's dog. I walk three times a day I'm in New Jersey. So we get the change of seasons took a year for her hip to To recover but every Friday After I dropped her Jack Russell tear her off She would hand me a crisp $5 bill And I would walk a third of a mile to the United Jersey Bank on Hardenburg Avenue I would deposit that $5 they'd stamp my passbook and At the dinner table my dad would ask to see my passbook We talked about money a lot and you'll find out why very shortly, but that's a savings habit and Thank God. I got it at the age of seven because I had four older brothers and sisters and I Saw very early on if I wanted to go to college. I was gonna have to basically pay my way because we're middle class six kids too many to pay for us to go to school but not enough to get financial aid So it was very early on. So when I hear people say save 10% save 20% I'm convinced my savings rate was about 98% the reason being my friends Really started to wonder How come Tim always forgets his wallet? I'm paying them back now. So don't worry So that was the dog walking job you there's picture of my parents up there. It couldn't have been better role models My father gave me work ethic No college degree grew up in London during the Blitz got sent to the countryside very self-sufficient depression era kid Rose up from bank teller to senior vice president Barclays Bank in New York He also taught me how to ladder CDs Because I was I had newspaper routes. I was a golf caddy Five-year CDs. I still remember thinking it was illegal 15% interest double your money in five years It's like crazy, but again all the adults are dealing with inflation. I'm dealing with great interest rates So that really helped me get through college too My mom she taught me to give back Six kids weren't enough for her. She was the Girl Scout troop leader She wrote the newsletter for the parish. She visited soup kitchens and she taught Must have had a 30 to 40 year career doing story hour When she passed We went through her desk and we saw stacks of those, you know this marble composition My mom did lesson plans for story hour And she put and it was it was kind of funny to read because it would be like little Johnny's acting up I don't know how to exactly get Johnny's attention But this emphasis on like what went well what didn't go well And so I think I got I think she gave me the the teaching gene because that was something that really really mattered to her The idea of giving back so I had an opportunity to give back East Side College prep is an East Palo Alto And it's a school serving first in their family kids who want to be first in the family to go to college first-gen kids So I visit the campus Totally inspired by the founder because they send a hundred percent of their kids to college These are kids first in their family to go primarily lower income primarily black and brown students And I was so inspired. How can I help you said well? You know something about finance or I was like, yeah, sure. I'll do it. I didn't know I was signing up for 25 hours of Lessons with three sections of students, and I didn't have a curriculum a lot of passion But no curriculum. Well that experience I saw two things I saw the eagerness that kids wanted to learn this Just incredible and then I think the secondary effect and anybody who's taught young people know this They went home and told their parents So I you know went to a Schwab office to help open an IRA for one of the parents I got calls from they wanted to discuss their budget I had a parent who called me like five years after I taught her son To say how proud she was that she knew what a target date fund was on a 401k list So I'm hooked. I'm like I did that for eight summers about halfway through teaching that I said I got to do something about this and that's when I started next-gen personal finance So, you know every startup has to have a B-hag a big hairy audacious goal. So in 2021 We got together as a team and frankly the teachers Were the ones you know We were just at lunch talk or earlier today talking about how we're gonna get Maryland to require a personal finance coach when we hear enough teachers say We love this course. The students are benefiting but not enough of them are so we set mission 2030 My thinking behind this is every high school student by the time they cross that graduation stage in 2030 We'll have a one semester personal finance course. We did it in 2021 So I did a little bit of research from the time Kennedy said let's go to the moon to the time We did was about eight years We did in 2021. I'm thinking nine years folks This isn't rocket science This isn't rocket science, right? We know the curriculum. We know teachers are eager to teach it. Let's let's kind of make it happen Quickly what we do Three legs of the stool I Wanted to be the one-stop shop for teachers So if you need a lesson, it's there if you want activities, it's there if you want games, it's there if you I Wanted it to be kind of that one stop where teachers would go We have an arcade Games really matter, but games have to teach also. So every one of those games has a reflection sheet They were played 10 million times last year The thing I'm most proud of is that is the teacher professional development So on the curriculum side 90,000 teachers have signed up on our website I would say two-thirds of them come from word of mouth And something works in the classroom teachers tell others the teacher professional development last three four years 17,000 teachers have spent on average 24 hours with us And so we have certification courses if you want to go deep and talk about investing or you want to go Banking and budgeting or I teach a course in psychology of money We offer 12 of those courses and we also have on-demands for people who want To be able to do things on their own time their own pace And I'm going to spend more time talking about advocacy So you see the bottom there free and always will be so I created an endowment to fund our operation because frankly I Can't imagine a better investment to make Than in the next generation and giving them the financial skills that they need So you all are welcome to go to the website to the extent that you're looking for resources to go out and teach It's there So funny story. I'm in Salt Lake City Probably a second year of our company. So we're still trying to figure things out. How should we teach investing? Should we go and the whole I think Teachers will tell you investing is the most challenging subject for them to teach So gosh if you could mentor teachers in your community to help them understand investing better that would be awesome So anyway, I'm in a room full of teachers. I'm doing a presentation about investing a hundred teachers and I start by asking how many of you Teach your students about index funds If you look closely, there's one hand raised. I think there were two others in the room There were about three out of a hundred And I said, okay, this is my mission is every student because guess what the most popular game in high schools is when it comes to investing The stock market game go ahead and Google how to win the stock market game and tell me that has anything to do with sound investing principles Right high beta stocks right around earnings biotechs better And it's a short time frame, right? And so If you go to our curriculum, you'll see we spend a lot of time talking about index funds We talk about target date funds and really because even if they're playing the stock market game I want educators to feel like okay, I can also teach a different approach because Kids are naturally interested in stocks. So you do have to spend a little bit of time talking about it but Clearly because they'll often that will be the first thing they know a company, right No, know what you're investing in which probably Can be a dangerous strategy. My son loved roblox So okay, how much do you love it? Why don't we put $50 in and buy some roblox? Yeah, he got he now understands volatility Which kind of gets to the point here those of you who have Children or grandchildren like how do I talk about investing with young people? And so, you know the strategy I've used with my son is basically the 50-50 method You know what? Pick companies you're interested in so let him because he's going to be naturally He's going to care about that right and then I'm going to take the other half And we're going to put it in an index fund and we're going to look at it every quarter To get him understand and the good news is I got him hooked on stocks In 2021 Great timing you learned a great lesson about how Those high flying pandemic driven stocks that did really well Didn't perform so well, so I think he's an index fund now guy too So here's the progress That's been happening. This is what you're seeing here is the number of states That either through their legislature or through their state department of education require Every high school student in the state to take a personal finance course So the shorthand here is in a little over two and a half three years. We've gone from eight to 23 states So tripling the next state Which is just waiting for the wisconsin governor's signature will put us over 50 mark So more than one out of every two students will take a personal finance course Just with the states on the board now it takes time for them to implement usually three four-year implementation period We're working with them on curriculum professional development but Yeah, the world has changed pretty rapidly How many people not many people thought it was 15 percent or higher? Now you're hearing it's 50 percent. I think there's It's happened so quickly So you're probably interested what's happening in my state? What's happening in your state? So the dark blue Our states those are like the original eight. They've had it in place the longest the lighter Shade our states where they're in the process of implementing And so again if you're in any of those states that are in the process of implementing They're probably very interested in talking to people who might be able to assist Kind of at the at the school level and then I'll talk about ways to get engaged for the states That don't have any boxes around them So maybe you're curious not about your state, but you're curious about your school community Every year we hire montana state university. They go through 12 000 high school course catalogs to identify what is happening in the school around personal finance if it's gold because This happens at the grassroots level great story out of massachusetts soup comparado who teaches at swamp scott high school 16 year odyssey Got personal finance to be a graduation requirement. That's the passion that educators have to make this happen So if you want to go figure out what's happening in your school If you google got finance How many of you remember the got milk campaign? I gotta tell i'm the oldest person at our company and I said got finance and nobody really Got it So that's just google got finance question mark and it'll take you to that map So let's talk about The role that you can play And i've kind of given you a continuum Of options here from on the left hand side Go in and teach a lesson Just and i'll tell you the best network is the school your child goes to Because that's gonna A school where you know who the economics teacher is or even the personal finance You're gonna know what's being taught in your school. Obviously if you have a student there But if you're going into a school cold You'll have the information from the website on the far end I'd say the most dramatic role i've seen in individual play. This was a financial planner out of minnesota Steve lear He said i really want this to happen in minnesota, so i'm going to go out and pay for a lobbyist to make it happen And you know what it happened in minnesota this year So that's on the far end on the advocacy front so Really important point for those of you who haven't been into a classroom Attention spans are short so 10 years ago i'm in front of it was probably 12 years ago i'm in front of these ninth graders and i'm like I cannot wait to tell them everything in my brain and just distill it to them and share all my wisdom with them And about five minutes in i'm like i lost them It's over you got to come with an activity you got to come with something to do and i'm happy to share These resources with you and i've given you both no tech options as well as tech options So just real quickly the bean game Really simple game you have 20 beans or they can be pennies or any manipulative and you got Two sheets of paper with things That you would expect to see in a budget and you got to allocate the 20 beans needs versus wants resource constraints And then you throw the wild card in that oh guess what? Your pay got cut From 20 to 13 Go pull seven beans off the then you really understand wants versus needs the bean game extremely popular another one let's Make a mutual fund hits do not understand what a mutual fund is It's not kind of this natural Thing that they've ever experienced so we have a get out of the seat game every student is given a ticker symbol And then we ask them to form Special groups go find somebody else with a similar ticket and we have the returns on the on the flip side Pair up there's two of them go find two other pairs now There's six of them and then it ends up it works well with a group of 30 Because guess what happens when they all get together What index are they? The dow Jones now we obviously make the point that very few people invest in the dow jones index But it gives them idea of what diversification looks like so that's Let's make a mutual fund on the tech side one of my favorite interactives Because index funds I think mutual funds are hard index funds are pretty difficult too. So website called fin Vis comm fin viz.com. It's a market map Of the s and p 500 And so I think a lot of teachers will put it up on the board when they're teaching investing And you see how how did those 500 stocks perform the size of the box is the market cap of the company Gives you red versus blue or a red versus green. What's up? What's down? And then it has a toggle on the left hand side So this was a terrible day in the market But when we look three six 12 months out It's a very different picture very easy to talk about short versus long term. So that's fin viz.com We also have a game called stacks We needed to do the impossible we needed to create an exciting game about index funds It's like watching paint dry, right? So what we do is we give them seven different asset classes and they're trading like crazy And in the background they're competing against the computer Guess what the computer is doing Dollar cost averaging in the index funds they lose about 90 of the time It's a perfect lead-in to say, you know, how stressed do you feel after 20 years of investing in 20 minutes? So that's our game stacks our most popular game in the arcade The next thing you do Is you could start an investment club? So i'm going to ask actually One of our educators julius presowski and he's going to talk about an investment club He runs at his high school in baltimore So so uh, I teach personal finance in a private high school in baltimore started about um eight years ago We started with an elective Within two years we had seven sections and then at that point they were like well We just should make it mandatory because almost everybody takes it. So we are mandatory. It's a one semester course Mr. Ted said we teach investing but In a one semester course, you don't have a lot of time to teach, you know about stocks So I decided that I would do it an investment club. So we have an activity period And once a week we meet and we have about 65 boys in in the group And we come in and I've used market watch for the investment game And I just set the criteria at about a hundred thousand dollars that each kid could invest Um, and then we just make them go long. I don't let them do shorts or anything like that We don't let them buy on margin or anything like that And then I try to just teach them with just different short power points Why do you invest in certain stocks? You know, when would you sell those stocks because what we find is that like as tim said Mutual funds could be very boring obviously and you know, uh An index fund is not exciting, but tim you gave me a good idea I let the boys go for three months and then We have the winners get some free lunches But now i'm going to make them pick an index fund on the other side of it And then kind of go well, can we beat the index fund in a set period of time? But the kids I think need to learn that You know investing short term Is a little bit like gambling right because a lot of our kids today have The gambling accounts with sports and I see that on their phone all the time and I'm like, okay Well, we need to learn the good and the bad and I think sometimes Losing is a great way to learn about investing and I tell them. Hey guys, I've lost money in investing I've made money in investing, but now I don't pick singleton stocks anymore. I'm a bogelhead, right? I'm in vanguard So I kind of think that's the best way to go about it is to get them involved and do it with fictitious money But show them that most these kids don't make money at the end of the three to four month period and they're like, yeah This is a lot harder than I thought Thanks, Julius All right, if you want to go a little bit further You teach a course and you know, I would recommend And we have free I told you everything we do is free come come to our professional development and collaborate with other educators and figure out What's what's working in the class? but we have You know scope and sequence which means we lay out our lessons and how to teach them and they're very interactive I think a lot of people get intimidated because like, oh, I got to be the sage on stage what if they start asking me all these questions and The thing I learned very early on As an educator, which I think was the most powerful thing I learned Was when they asked a question. I didn't know I'd say Let's figure this out together Right, because we've never had we've never had better tools to go out and find information to me because they need to understand also that I guess the other thing I would I would say which I should have mentioned earlier is there's a heavy emphasis our first Unit In our course Is behavioral economics Let's let students grapple with their relationship with money before we dive into the all of the details Let's talk about all the cognitive biases we have which make it difficult for us to do the thing we should do Let's also develop a level of empathy Because you might decide You want to buy lottery tickets and if I come in as the educator and say that's dumb Let's Why don't you invest that in an index fund? I think it's morgan hausel's book which I can't recommend enough psychology of money I think it's his first or second chapter He says put yourself in somebody else's shoes. I'm working three jobs Minimum wage That two dollar ticket I buy is called hope So be careful about judging not a lot of shoulds I don't think a lot of should should be part of personal finance because you're going to turn I think this was mentioned earlier if you're too sanctimonious you're going to turn people off Right so understand somebody somebody said this I forget who but I think it rings really true Every decision every decision makes sense right when you look at somebody else's decision say, how could you make that every decision makes sense With enough information I had a conversation with a teacher. She said I always lease cars. What do you do? I told her I buy cars and I run them into the ground 20 years later You dig a little bit deeper into somebody at least his car. She says oh, I was traveling Five six years ago and Car broke down. We had to get a tow truck to bring us back to where we mean She had a traumatic experience with an older car So she vowed in her head Three to four years is all I want to run a car for And I could say well, but the economics say this and so I think this Empathy is incredibly important when you're teaching this class Don't reinvent the wheel. There's a lot of high quality curricula out there. Ours is customizable, too So we do it in google docs. You file make a copy. You can change it as you like expect the unexpected and I think any long-term educator will tell you embrace continuous improvement. It doesn't always go well But I always thought I was teaching three sections in a row and I was a lot better with the third section than I was with the first Those reps just thinking okay, how do I make this a little bit better a little bit better? You do that over a career and you're a rock star teacher right continuous improvement just like my mom taking notes in about 100 different marble notebooks Men are a teacher They tell us investing is the most challenging subject for them to teach right And maybe like maybe we can help facilitate that Again, this is the problem with an entrepreneur. They just immediately like what if we created a list Of bogelheads who want to mentor a teacher we match with our 90 000 teacher teacher account base And try and make some of those matches because it could be difficult if you're not You know if your kids aren't in the school system or you're further away, so maybe that's an idea We'll explore But I know I know they would I'll turn to my teachers. What do you think? All right, you know where they're sitting And the last is advocacy So I remember in 2021 thinking this was the craziest thing I've I just got tired of people saying everybody should be taught personal finance, but Nobody was really had figured out a strategy as to how to go ahead and do it And I love this Margaret me quote Because it really is a small group of committed people that are in this community This personal finance education community and there's a small group of people on a relative basis That are bogelheads, but together The power is is just intense So i'll give you two two choices here Anybody ever attend anybody school board members here? All right Thank you for your service so It often starts at the school board level You want it? You got to build a coalition though folks. You can't just show up and and will something to happen Find the teacher in the school who's really passionate about it find students do a student survey One of the reasons this thing is happening at such a rapid pace Is when you survey it's 80 percent approval 80 percent approval tell me another subject in this polarized world we live in that 80 percent of people agree on It's not it's not bipartisan. It's non-partisan and it's common sense So we've got resources available in terms of the research that says it works the power points Make the convincing points and also how do you overcome objections? Because they There are a lot of them And then on the state legislature front Again, you're kind of upping your game even more. We track every year legislation I think in the past year there were about 30 states that had 70 or 80 bills around financial literacy some of them are window dressing Because the politicians know this is popular They'll get a press release out that they introduced this bill but some of them are are serious and You know if the legislators you've got state senators and you got state representatives the action here is at the state Not at the federal level, but smaller states. You probably know your representative really well We've got model legislation. We have kind of best practices in terms of how you think about and I think the power of us You know next-gen personal finance advocating is not only Are we looking for legislative solutions? But we're there to support them For implementation because that's always the hang up New graduation requirements don't come along very often So they're looking for a partner who can do it at no cost Which we which we offer so Get to know your legislator Let them know this is uh important And then you have opportunities usually the first stop in the legislature is the education committee They'll hold a hearing and that's when parents teachers and students steal the show Because these students have so much gravitas and they're so passionate about making this happen I can point to you know, Wisconsin um Florida no it wasn't Florida or three or four states where Kids just lined up two hours of kids talking about why this is so important. It leaves an impression on politicians and then the last Is you can be like steve in higher lobbyists so To get from eight to 23 what we realized we had a grassroots effort We gave su comparado a grant because she made it a requirement in her school And we probably gave 150 of those grants, but we discovered two and a half years ago when companies want To affect policy. What do they do? They hire lobbyists so in the last two years we hired 25 lobbyists and about half have gotten over the finish line Because we realized this is how you create change and it's the lobbyists and the combination of The educators and the students who make a difference Uh, so we have some questions for you. Sure. You ready? Yep. Okay okay so A lot of the material it seems that is used in financial education in schools is sponsored product driven Propaganda Yeah No, that's um, can you tell me first of all is that true and if so How do how do you stop that? Yeah, I would just say we're winning that battle So we hired an independent third party to go out and ask teachers what curriculum they use And the good news is I think our share was over 80 85 percent. So our best I guess our Our best weapon against that is providing great curriculum. That's not sponsored again We're fully endowed. So we're not raising money from financial institutions either because frankly, that's one of the challenges in the space And I think if you give teachers a non-commercial option That doesn't have You know big bank embrace emblazoned on it. I think they'll choose ours Another question about investing so you you're talking about investing today generally, but um How about budgeting? Emergency fund is all that part of the curriculum also. So we have 12 uh 10 units in our semester course So it's all the you know managing credit types of credit budgeting um psychology of money Consumer skills like there's this thing called dark patterns, right like websites that gets you to do things that you really shouldn't do but you know, so There's the full full gamut. The other thing is we do we supplement with current events so when gamestop took off we created a you know, we've got a Phenomenal teammate who you saw in the video very short very briefly. Yeneli Espinall She creates a weekly current events video with a quiz So we can also fill in the gaps when the world changes which it whether it's silicon valley bank imploding or all banks You know at risk to gamestop to crypto So the other thing we're really attuned to you got to be current And again, we have this great feedback loop here of these educators coming in and telling us Here's what kids are talking about and it would it would blow your mind For x trading. Are you kidding me? Well, guess what 76 of kids are getting financial advice from social media So that's the other reason I think we have a lot of momentum behind this is if we don't provide a foundation Of course, they're being fed to the wolves, right get rich quick So there's something called just in time Education and there are studies that show just in time education works better Than teaching them in a class if you comment on that. Yeah, I think When you stop and think about High school and actually it's on my last slide When you think about the decisions young persons making in high school There is a lot of just in time your parents hand you the keys to the car better understand auto insurance You may have gotten your first part-time job Got to learn how to read a pay stub. Why didn't I get 325 per hour? That was my first job I remember the sense of revulsion I had like what do you mean? I'm not getting 325 an hour So that's part of it paying taxes another probably the most important decision kids are going to make is staring them right in the face What am I going to do after high school? And so we've got an entire unit on paying for college but also alternatives to college To provide the full view so I would argue I agree with just in time And I think you got to create a curriculum our high school curriculum is Just in time in terms of all these decisions. Okay, last question. We have time for and this is a good one What if you're not in one of those 23 states? And you have a student or know someone who would like to take This class can you do it online even though you're not in one of the states? Yeah, so I think it's it's we really focus on teacher led And so find a teacher in the high school and again when you come to them and say hey There's a curriculum and there's folks who will help train you around professional development That's available because that's kind of our focus. So this isn't student facing per se It's our distribution channel is really educators because You know the scale that you get every educator teachers on average 100 kids And so that was kind of the path we chose how many californians in the room Okay, you're going to have a chance in november of 2024. We're working to get a Personal finance education requirement on the ballot because the california legislature has spent two decades Dithering and there's a 450,000 kids who graduate every year from california high schools that deserve this So the states that aren't up up there. There's about 10 of them We're we're lobbying in for the next year and so you can expect You know look for the bill tracker that'll tell you when the bill gets introduced And then reach out to me tim at ngpf.org and we'll get you involved Tim we're grateful for you to come in today and tell us what you're doing. Think you're a fantastic job And so glad we the bogelhead community can thanks can be part of this. So thank you very much