 Welcome. This is Documentation Office Hours, the 4th of November 2022 Asia Office Hours. Topics on the agenda that I've got, Action Items, Jenkins Elections, DevOps World, Weekly Release, Next LTS, Hacktoberfest, and Hacktoberfest Highlights. Any other items you want to put on the agenda? No, go for it. Okay. All right. So let's take those then. So first, Action Items, I unfortunately have nothing to report other than I've made no progress. There is, however, a monthly Jenkins newsletter, and encourage everybody to read it. It comes out naturally once a month as a blog post. It comes with feedback and comments from the special interest groups from various other places, highlighting the results from that month. So special thanks to Alyssa Tong for creating that. I was going to ask who was doing that, and then I saw it at the bottom. Yay. Yeah. So Alyssa is doing it with help from Bruno Veraschen. So Bruno does the technical work to create the pull request and Alyssa gathers the content. If you'd like to submit content, you're welcome to do so. She's preparing the October edition now, and she's going to switch her preparation technique in the future to use community.jankens.io instead of using a simple Google Doc. So look forward to that. Any questions on the Action Items? Are you doing your class? It says many. I talked for Amanda. Are you guys going to do your class still or your workshop? We are not. So that's a good one. When we get to DevOps world, I'll share what we've got there and we can talk through it. Sorry, I'll shut up. Okay, go for it. No, it's good point. So Jenkins elections was the next topic, and there it's that each of you needs to be sure that you are registered, and if you would like to nominate someone for one of the roles, either as a member of the board, or as one of the officers, you should submit your nomination. So voter registration, you go here, community.jankens.io, and you click the button that if you haven't already registered, we'll say join here in the top right-hand corner. So let's look and see. So Dheeraj has registered. Yes. But Meg, you have not. I have not. I will. Chris, I don't think you've registered. I will do that today. Excellent. You're both absolutely great contributors, and certainly worthwhile having your vote included. Okay. All right. So there is also an ongoing thread there that talks about how the process works, etc. So if you feel like, hey, I would like to nominate someone as an officer, or as, and you can also nominate yourself or as a board member by all means, go ahead and do it. Anybody we know who is interested in any of these positions? So Kevin, I'm nominated Kevin Martens as Docs Officer and I've nominated Alyssa Tong as Events Officer and Damian DePortal as Infrastructure Officer. Oh, good choices. I've got a candidate for the board, Basel Crow, but he's a CloudBees employee, and so we're having discussions right now about, are we allowed to have three people affiliated with CloudBees on the board? Because Kosuke is still officially on the board, even though he's not doing anything on the board, and I'm on the board and the past rules were always that Kosuke is being an advisor to CloudBees, meant he was affiliated with CloudBees. So discussions are ongoing. Right. And what about you, Mark? Are you not participating? Oh, I'm definitely participating. I intend to continue on the board, but I would prefer that Kevin Martens take my role as Docs Officer so that I can focus on the board and on the maintenance that I do and being a Docs contributor less than the Docs Officer. Does that mean he would take over this meeting? No, no, I'll keep doing this meeting. Oh, okay. Same question. Does he have to come to this meeting? I don't think so. He runs Docs Office Hours Europe and he does that already. He's been doing that for months. So we'll just have him do Office Hours Europe and I do Office Hours Asia. And is he in same time zone as you? Oh, no, no, he's in the US East Coast. So he's in the Boston area. So what does that make? Two hours earlier than me? Yeah, three hours earlier than me. Yeah. Okay, nice. Can people only need one nominee to be nominated or one? No, more nominees are certainly welcome. I'm sorry, I mean, but it's the second nomination. Oh, no, no, yeah, a single nomination is enough to bring the person up for consideration to the board. But if, for instance, any of you say, hey, I'd like to be the Docs Officer, you could certainly nominate yourself and say I'm interested in that and then the election will work it out. Yeah, no, no. Okay, all right. Anything else on elections? Nope. Okay, then let's take DevOps World as the next topic. So with Hurricane Ian, DevOps World face to face was canceled. It had the terrible experience of stranding a number of my colleagues in Orlando, right in the middle of it. So they couldn't get back to Europe. Not a great experience for them. All sorts of challenges. It's going to be held. Let me tell their grandchildren. They don't have hurricanes in Brussels. Exactly, that's the way to say it. I'll just remind them. I'll tell them Meg said you should remember this to tell your grandchildren. This is the person who moved out of Florida before Hurricane Andrew and to Santa Cruz after the big 1989 earthquake. So, you know, I can be Pollyanna here. So November 9th, next Wednesday. Whoops, November 9th, next Wednesday, DevOps World will be presented in an online format but it will instead of a three-day event, it will be a four-hour event. It'll be done at two different times, one for Asia, one for Europe. I believe it's the same content both times and there's no charge to attend. So, you're welcome to attend there. Because they've had to collapse three days into four hours, many of the talks that were accepted for Orlando could not be in the online event. That unfortunately includes the contributing to open source talk or contributing to open source workshop. And what about Jake and Runcia's talk on plugin health scoring? As far as I know, plugin health scoring was also not included. Okay. I was looking for the agenda on the website but I was not able to find it. Yeah, and I haven't looked at the agenda. So, it's a good question. So, we'll have to, I'll have to do some further asking around to see what the agenda topics are, et cetera. Did they cut out most of the technical? I bet they cut out the technical topics. And can't be added. And I don't know which topics they naturally had a very, very hard decision. How do you collapse a face-to-face format into an online format and have it be successful? And that's a challenge. I certainly would not want to have to face. Now, the question then for us as a group is other ways we might present those talks. So Jenkins online meetups for the talks was one idea that, for instance, plugin health scoring would be a good thing to do in an online meetup. Have Jake and Ronsha, and then we could even have Adren and Dheeraj potentially even you join for a conversation about what that would mean. The workshops could be done in a slightly different format. Workshop could be a, what would you call it, a must register, registrations accepted for a small group of people, right? Because really doing it online, it's complicated if we try to do large groups. But a small group of people, we might have a potentially very successful experience there. I've just got to talk with my colleagues to see if there, if they can see a way to break loose the time to do it. And if you did that, is there any possibility you could record it, which would not be as good as being part of it, but. Yeah, yeah. For others. Although I suspect the recordings of those kinds of things, the ones that Darren and I did are probably far superior because it's just the two of us and working through exactly things. So the things that we're doing in that workshop are really just examples of what Darren and I did in the videos that are already in front of it. Yeah. So it would be life coding, life debugging with all those new contributors, right? Exactly. That's the idea there is the workshop experience that we had intended was live coding, live debugging, et cetera. And the challenge then is we don't want, we don't want the risk of some random person coming in and disrupting by malicious Zoom bombing. So we would have to use a registration system, probably password protected, et cetera. And then we just go ahead. Yep. And we don't have a date for Jenkins online meet-up yet, right? No, no, these are just ideas. I've got to talk to the candidate presenters. I didn't want to risk disrupting the decision process for DevOps world. So asking someone, hey, would you like to present at an online meet-up when they may be one of the selected speakers for DevOps world would be a really bad thing, right? That confuses things. So letting DevOps world get its work done and then extras talks that weren't presented there, we can consider doing as an online meet-up. Sure. And you said it would be shorter, right? As compared to previous ones. Right, right. Yeah, so online meet-ups can be as short or long as we want. Certainly I would never want an online meet-up to go over two hours and most typically one hour or less. Okay, sure, sounds good. Thanks. Great. Any other questions on DevOps world? Okay, then let's note next topic was releases. Weekly release was delivered this week and a new LTS. And Darren Pope and I did a live stream discussing it. It was actually about six or seven hours ago. But as it turns out, it was yesterday for the wall clock. So it's available there. That link takes you to the video. The video's available now. And it's about 30 minutes total, pretty simple. Any questions on that one? Small one. Yes. How does the weekly change log process happens right now? Because previously we were doing some edits. So how does it happen right now? Because I am completely out of touch. Yeah, so good question. So what we've done is Kevin Martin's now reviews, reviews the weekly change log each Monday. And then he, Kevin proposes a second poll request that corrects the issues he finds. And then Mark applies those corrections on a good week, applies those corrections to the original poll requests so that the resulting, resulting change log is ready to publish. And if changes are needed, then Kevin will submit, Kevin submits a change, a poll request to correct the issue. So the process we've been using, Dheeraj, is still working. We're just having Kevin do the, he's doing the reviews and sometimes I do the reviews. Okay. So by correcting the issues, you mean he tries to assign, now rearrange the items and bullets exactly, right? Exactly, the common problems there are things like, oh, somebody failed to put a hard stop at the end of the line. Oh, somebody failed to classify the poll request at all. And so it doesn't have a classification assigned or they gave a really poorly phrased description or a poorly phrased summary. And so that has to be corrected. And he proposes all those as part of that corrective poll request. This corrective poll request is actually never applied. It's discarded, but it's a way for him to communicate. Here are the changes that are needed. All right, that sounds great. Thanks for letting me know. Yeah, well, and certainly we welcome anybody who's available to help with it is welcome to, as it turns out, part of my desire to prepare Kevin to be a candidate for documentation officer was I wanted to be sure he knew how to do weekly change logs without me. And so while I was on vacation, those two plus weeks, Kevin was doing weekly change logs and he did quite well. That's great. So I'll be also joining in every Monday. Good. And would love to have that because inevitably the more eyes we get on these change logs, the better they are and the happier everybody is. Yes. Okay, next, and this one may be of interest to Chris, the next LTS baseline has been selected as 2.375. It will release November 30th. Kevin and I will work on creating the LTS change log. He's going to create it himself as the first draft and then he and I will review it. We may ask the others here in the docs office hours to review it as well, but it's a good practice. He and I have been through LTS change log prep at least three times previously. So it feels like he's, this is a good one for him to practice trying it on his own. So any questions? Oh, the reason I've said this might be interesting, Chris, you've been a release lead for previous longterm support releases. If you're interested in being a release lead again and the timing works, I suspect that Tim Jacome will put out the request saying, hey, who would like to be a release lead? Okay. And thank you again for your having acted as release lead. Yeah, okay. And this one will be just before the announcement of the new officers. I'm hoping that we'll persuade Tim to stay on as release officer, but if not, this would be the last release before his, the transition from Tim to the new release lead or the new release officer. I have a question for Chris. So how was it experience doing the releases for these change logs? It depends because the first time was easy, but the second time it was kind of more challenging for me. But sometimes it's just communications too. Because like back and forth, like I need some communications, well, the thing is I may get some instructions to change or crack some like commits I've made. But sometimes like the communications may not be 100% clear. So that could be the issue. Well, and I think sometimes in some cases, the release checklist sort of assumes expert knowledge. Yeah. Right? It uses very short phrases and a brand new release lead like Chris was is left wondering, what does that sentence mean? Exactly. And the trick there is when those cases, when we detect them, we submit a pull request to fix it, right? But that meant poor Chris on occasion was left with, I wonder what they meant when they wrote that because it was written almost halfway in secret code sometimes. When we were reviewing them as a group, there were a lot of those marks that you said, oh, let me explain this because you sat through the meetings discussing it. Right. Not because you understood what they'd written, yeah. Exactly. Yep. And that's the challenge of a checklist, right? Checklists from Dr. Gawanda's checklist manifesto, checklists are oftentimes focused on experts, practitioners. You know, when a pilot goes through a checklist, they use all sorts of shortcut words to describe things because rapid pass through the checklist is the thing. But in this case, it's also a teaching tool for new people who are working and therefore we need to get it improved. Let's keep it proving it's phrasing. Right. Did that answer your question, Diraj? I know you'd ask it of Chris. Did Chris's answer give you what you needed? Yes, absolutely. Thanks. Oh, you're welcome. All right. Anything else on next LTS? Okay, next topic then. Hacktoberfest 2022. Okay, this one is a great story. So we've had over 100 first time contributions. Wow. Six over 600 eligible pull requests and over 500 of those were merged or flagged as approved because they were good enough. So 95 contributors and of those 95, almost half qualified for the Hacktoberfest done criteria with just their contributions to Jenkins. That means they made four contributions at least to the Jenkins project. So really, really a nice result. Yeah. Wow. Exactly. Even I was surprised when I saw, sorry, go ahead. No, no, go ahead, Diraj. Even I was surprised when I saw 531 PRs. That's a big, big number. Seriously, that's so cool. Yeah, and now as a fun comparison, there were almost 1,200 non-automated PRs submitted during October, a 10 to 15% increase compared to previous preceding months. So there's been a real, real positive here and the anecdotal evidence indicates that the spam rate was quite low, even better this year than last year. What do you mean by spam rate? Well, what happens is sometimes people decide that they'll submit a junk poll request to a project in hopes of it being easy and getting accepted. And what happened in years past was open source maintainers were quite frustrated by that because now they were wasting time processing people's silly or useless poll requests. And in this case, it didn't happen. We had maybe one in 10 or one in 20 poll requests were junk. And so very good. I think in all the time that I saw the, I saw maybe two and I suspect I processed as many as 100. So very positive. So why do you think this time it was the spam rate was low? Oh, because we had a very serious threat. If you have two spam poll requests, if digital ocean detects that you had done two spam poll requests, you reject it from the program. You cannot complete it successfully. If two of your poll requests are flagged as spam. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, it's, go ahead. Go ahead. Yes, so now my topic is different. Please go ahead. That's, I think that's really, well, the, there is, I guess there's another happy story here and we'll get into highlights in just a moment. But one of the happy stories for me is that, that contributing to open source tutorial that became improve a plugin, the one that we spent a year creating, right? It started in Hectoberfest 2021. And then as docs office hours, we worked on it repeatedly. Dheeraj, you and I started the thing and we worked it together. And then Meg encouraged it and Kristen encouraged it. That thing finally turned out to be very, very successful for Hectoberfest. We had at least four or five people who said, hey, thank you for that contributing guide. It was great. I was able to contribute useful. I understood it. I've learned more things. And I think we had a real positive from that. And we've got now a good idea for Google summer of code next year based on the concepts in that tutorial. Cool. That's a very nice thing to mention because the biggest point or something that shines in this story is the YouTube video, the live stream that you did with Dheeraj. That was very, very helpful for the people who were following this tutorial. So big shout out for that live stream and those videos. And then thank you for those, that document contributing to open source by mentioning everything in such a detailed way for any newcomer to learn. So I think it is due to those things that we were able to replicate the data and use those resources into the blog post which eventually helped those people. Yeah, and I think that was really positive. I liked the results we got from Hacktoberfest 22, 22. We really, one was we avoided the mistake that we've made in the past of offering challenging repositories as part of the Hacktoberfest. So for example, I did not even offer the get plugin or the get client plugin because they're just too challenging. There are just too many things that can go wrong with people trying to do pull requests there. So, and that worked out quite well because we had a bunch of plugins that were much easier to do and new contributors had a much higher probability of success. So good work. You know, Mark, in your copious free time that would be a very interesting blog post from you, it would have to be from you but to talk about, I think, I mean, all of the open source projects are having trouble. They have people who come in and are all excited about contributing and they fall off. And I think a lot of it may be because A, we're putting out two complicated projects and B, we're not giving them enough information about how to do it. Exactly. You could turn that into a general blog post that might help some of the other projects. Yeah, interesting idea. Thanks. Let me make a note that's consider a blog post on hints for success with new contributors. And none of them are bulletproof. None of them are flawless but things like mentors available, right? Right. Tasks that are valuable but simple, right? And yeah, those kind of things. So reference materials available. Yes, yes, that's a good one. Yes, reference materials available for use and maybe even multi-format reference materials. So for those who written steps, video steps, et cetera, right? Because there are some people for whom the written steps may not be as readily approachable as watching on screen where you see someone making specific changes in an IDE. Yeah, good. Yeah, I mean, I'm sitting on another project where I three times a day say, oh God, I wish Mark were here to manage this. That looking back, you know, but even back to the first, she codes Africa. We learned a lot there. Right, well, and that's- You're not just go code, you know, you guys graduated college. Well, and that's maybe that's the most important of all is keep making mistakes and keep learning from those mistakes. Right. Because the she code Africa work was sort of really bad on the first iterations. It's, but we learned from the mistakes. Right. And sometimes the things we learned were uncomfortable. The, oh wow, we should not do that because it didn't work real well. Yeah, good. Right. Super, all right. And I have few more points. Yes. So I noticed during this October month that there were few people who messaged me personally trying to ask me, hey, what should I do? How should I do things and contribute to Jenkins? So I first in them the same tutorial or and some general things as well. And they can pick anything that works for them. So then they picked out this tutorial. They started following and made some PR and discussing everything. So like one or two of them, I need to confirm from them. But what I understood was the thing that they were having problem with is when they started contributing to, contributing the tests for that plugin. So they found it difficult to write the tests and how to do it. And I think JUnit was not difficult for them, but using JUnit to write tests for the plugin code was something that might have made it difficult for them to continue contributing. So I need to confirm from them. And if that's the case, I think it would be nice if I can or maybe anyone can write a blog post on testing plugins with JUnit or something like that. Yeah, very well. And that is a, I would assume in the captain project Meg sees the same kinds of things where there is an awful lot of specialized knowledge required in order to successfully write a test. But how does one acquire that knowledge is an excellent thing for a tutorial to say, look, we're going to learn together in this tutorial. Here's how you use your debugger. Here's how you watch what's happening in this thing with your debugger because writing a test, at least for me, I write tests in the debugger. I spend a lot of time in the debugger being sure. I understand I wrote this assertion, did it work the way I expected, et cetera. So yeah, good suggestion. Yeah. Well, again, I mean, and Mark's hammered years with Mark, testing is the great Achilles heel right now of software everywhere, but I think it's especially an open source because it's a lot more fun to code than to write a test suite. Well, and actually a lot of tests, many of them become liabilities over the long life of a project because now I have to maintain the test in addition to the code and it requires thinking about both of them. I like that thinking, but really it's not free to have tests. It's also expensive to not have them, so. But I see a lot of people going out and doing just the bare minimum test. Not thinking about everything that could fail and trying to test as much as you can, et cetera. Exactly. And yeah. Dheeraj, are you doing testing now? Do Jenkins or full-time job? For your day job. Day job, yes, I'm doing testing. More on the UI automation, but it basically loads lots of things, even your open shift. So it's not the regular testing that I was expecting. It's like more things are there, so it's pretty nice. You should use that and turn yourself into an industry name. You're young and smart and the whole industry needs this stuff and there isn't easy stuff out. There isn't accessible stuff out, right? That Mark, there's like big classes you can take. But if you like it and are interesting, you should think about that. You should be in 10 years, you should be somebody that everybody goes, ooh, Dheeraj, you knew him when he was just starting out. Wow. But what do you think about the fact that there are lots of YouTube videos for different tutorials already available? At least I think what Meg's pointing you to is, testing is at least as technically complicated a field as software creation because while software creation has to worry about all the things you want the software to do, software testing also has to worry about how do we check that it's not doing the things it shouldn't, software testing is a fascinating domain. Yeah. Or if somebody does something that they aren't supposed to, that it fails appropriately, there's that. Exactly, all sorts of fun and interesting things hiding and testing. Yeah. And a lot of technocrats tend to, I mean, for software coding, you have one little problem you have to solve. When you test, you have to put all that together too. So, yeah, you're good at this, Dheeraj. Let's make you a name. That's a really nice solution. I'll think about it for sure. You can see the world, people will pay you vast sums to come and give them a seminar. That's the goal. Traveling with the knowledge. All right. Anything else on Hacktoberfest 2022? Yes, last thing. You were mentioning about, sorry, Chris, go ahead. Is that no? Okay. So, you were mentioning about, when we were discussing about this plugin, into the plugin tutorial, you mentioned that you got some idea for the next GSOC. So, can you tell me more? Tell us more briefly. Oh, sure. So, the next, one of the project ideas that was suggested for 2022, actually by Basil Crow, was automate the, so the GSOC idea was, automate the transformations that are documented in that tutorial. So, for instance, there are some easy ones. Upgrade the parent palm. There are some more challenging ones. Replace Joda time with Java classes. Replace HTTP client in Java 11 with the native Java, those kinds of things. And there's this tool called Open Rewrite that looks live, quite promising, as a way to write these, basically what are transformations of code as an automation facility for it. And there's been at least one Jenkins contributor has done a few Open Rewrite changes like this. So, that was the idea. So, that person automated the updates or any replacing tasks for their plugin repository using Open Rewrite. Yeah, what they did was, they had a specific problem they were trying to solve. For instance, in this case, I think it was, there were specific types of security issues where you shouldn't perform the following calls. It's unhealthy. And what the submitter did was, had an Open Rewrite rule that would read the source code. And when it detected that flawed behavior, it would rewrite it and prepare and ship a pull request. That's cool. Yeah, it's an interesting problem because you can imagine rewriting source code is non-trivial, right? There's an awful lot of syntactical processing that you have to do to successfully transform source code. Exactly. So, this gives an idea, sure. We can have a longer discussion later. So, thank you for that. Anything else on Hacktoberfest 2022 before we go to highlights? I wanna get to highlights because we've got some cool things to show of Chris Stearns' contributions and several others. Cool. Cool. Okay, so Chris, do you want to show them or are you okay if I show them? What's your preference? You can show them, you can show them. Okay, so first things first, we had in Docs Office Hours, I think six or eight weeks ago, identified a non-trivial challenge that the developer documentation had no left-hand navigation that was anywhere near acceptable. What it had was a long list and that was it. Whereas the left-hand bar on the user documentation had very nice expanding and contracting. Things which show you exactly where you were and what you were doing in that section which page you were reading. So we boldly, and I think it was now two months ago or more, wrote an issue report on Jenkins.io, labeled it as Hacktoberfest, but not as a good first issue because we thought this is gonna be a difficult one. And Chris picked it up as part of Hacktoberfest and what we got is this. Notice the navigation on the left and yes, in fact, it will expand and contract so improve a plugin is now down here with its own navigation in it. Now if I go back here to create a plugin, okay, navigation there, the how-to guides, reference architecture, reference topics, all of it living in this same kind of layout as we have with the user documentation. So watch this as I go to the user guide. Here's the same experience with the user guide. So Chris, thank you very, very much. Marvelous. I sincerely doubted anybody would be able to do this within the context of Hacktoberfest and you did a brilliant job of it. So thank you. One more thing, go into one of them. Do we have the ability to link to a subsection now too? Or is that too much? When you say link to a subsection, what do you mean? Well, go into one of them. Okay, so here's persistent objects. Okay. And it's got the sections backward compatibility with Xtreme. Yes, and I'm looking at the URL. Incompatible releases. So I could link to that. Uh-huh, yes. Yeah. Yay, yay. See, I don't care if anybody can read the damn things, I just want to be able to link to them, so. Shame on you. Shame on you. I know. What a coarse, crass attitude that is. Gribal, scribal problems. If you go to one of the headings, do you have a link for that as well? Yes, so here's the heading. Heading linked. And then we go inside the inside of it. Here's the sub page. So for, yeah, go ahead. So for this given page, if you want to, you know, if you hover over the references heading. So it's on the right, right side. Right side. References, yes. Above it. Yes, this heading. So does this heading has, okay, does not have that link symbol, right? It does not, no. And in this case, I'm not sure that would help us. Oh, no, I take it back. It does, you mean this link symbol? Oh, nice. So yes, it does have that. That's awesome. Very nice. So yeah, Chris, go ahead. Sorry. When Chris took this task, I was like, wow, this is a big one. So I'm really glad that this was completed. So thanks a lot for the work, Chris. Yeah. Yeah, Chris, great work. Thank you. That's been a bugaboo for a long time. Oh, go ahead, Chris. Yes, I've been there. It's good that I wasn't even competitive. Excellent. Thank you. So now Chris went one step further. This next indicator, we had a problem in the system administration guide that what you'll see here is, notice that, let's look at it now, and this is the current look. It stays nice. We don't have a scroll bar at all because it's small enough that it doesn't need the scroll bar. What we had previously was as though this reverse proxy configuration was always expanded and users will have at most one of these reverse proxies and many of them will have none of them. So for them, it wasn't valuable for us to show reverse proxy squid or IIS. They may not be running on Windows at all. IIS is nonsense for them. So what Chris has done is he found a way to, and again, this was, we did this eight or 10 weeks ago, identified an issue, listed the issue in Jenkins.io, marked it for Hacktoberfest and did not mark it good first issue because it definitely was not a good first issue, but Chris has figured out a way to make it work and the navigation is just as sweet as can be. Oh, beautiful. So notice that the scroll bar is only there while I'm inside reverse proxy configuration. In all the other cases, the scroll bar isn't needed, so it doesn't show it. Gorgeous. Yeah, so Chris, thank you very, very much. Welcome. Now, we had other contributions. Tanuj had contributed new updated content for the Kubernetes install guide. The Kubernetes install guide was first created as part of docs, Google season of docs 2020. So it's two years out of date and in the world of Kubernetes, two years is almost a lifetime. So great that Tanuj did that change. Thanks very much. Then we got some cool artwork from a person in Turkey. Yes, here is Jenkins in Turkey. Here's Jenkins for Georgia, the Georgia Republic. Oh, wow. And here is Nerd Jenkins. Wow. Nerd Jenkins has no towel because nerds don't clean up after themselves. Is this the implication? I am the wrong person to critique graphic materials. I am awe-inspired by what's been done here, yeah. I am too. These are reminders that there are many ways you can contribute to HectoverFest. Thanks very, very much to everyone who did. Exactly. My question on artwork is that, what kind of tool do they use? Do you have any idea on that? I do not. That's one where that's a dark corner of the world because I have no art skills whatsoever. And so I've never learned which tools they use or prefer the images or PNG, but I think they also have the facility to do the miscaled vector graphics as SVG. I see. Mark, when we start using, we've got all these marvelous Jenkins that you can scroll and scroll on those. Why don't we start rotating them on the landing page? Good question. We could even put a little dropout, you know, that this is what it is and who created it or something like that. Yeah, so one of the suggestions had actually been to rotate the stop the war image with other artwork images, right? And it's a valid thought. The images are certainly charming and fun. And yeah, just no one's done it yet. It also gives an incentive for new people to contribute a new artwork as well. Here, it just lies there. Right, we'll put it in. If it's in the rotation, it's more likely to be seen, exactly. On the list, where's the woman? I didn't see the woman on that list. Oh, you just have to look at her. Did I just miss it when you scrolled through them? You did, you just missed it because I saw it. It was there, hang on, let's keep going. There it is, Duchess France. There's Duchess France, okay. Yeah, and to go again, here's the SVG format. So this thing scales with no loss of image quality. And very, very nice that somebody did the work to use scalable vector graphics with it. All right, we've just about run out of time. Are there other topics we need to cover before we end for today? Fun meeting. Yeah. Same, lots of good topics and nice discussion. All right, well, so we will, recording of the meeting will be posted and the notes in the community forum. Thanks everybody for your efforts and have a great day. Okay, good week and we'll talk next week.