 e voglio parlare da... e anche la costa che l'Italia ha pagato non per organizzare una sola elezione tra il prossimo riferendomo e le prossime elezioni administrativi e il governo del governo ha deciso di farlo in modo da obstacolare il riferendomo che sarà portato al 17 aprile vogliamo iniziare da questo punto con Marica, Marica che con molti altri ha lavorato difficile per il riferendomo, per essere organizzati, e io vorrei dirvi come è importante che andiamo a votare al 17 aprile Sì, beh, iniziando a parlare dei riferendomi, voglio dirvi un altro numero 340 milioni, che è l'amore delle royali che ogni anno ha pagato per i nostri compagni in Italia quindi è chiaro che non parliamo di particolarmente high royali sono un riferendomo molto limitato per l'Italia ma iniziando al riferendomo, perché è importante che andiamo a votare al 17 aprile? Nel numero 1, perché bisogna proteggere l'idea che possiamo esprimere i nostri idei e che il governo non può sabotaggiare questo progetto e quindi bisogna lavorare davvero per una grande parte nel riferendomo. Siamo facendo grandi difficolti perché il riferendomo è riuscito a provare una coverazione adeguata per il riferendomo, ma there are millions of citizens who are taking action regardless of the silence of the media to achieve our result by participating in the referendum and casting our vote. We can contribute to an important result that can help us in stop being dependent on fossil fuel. The era of fossil fuels is over. Scientists know this. Activists from all over the world are aware of this and so it is important the referendum because we can help in building a vision for the future. Italy participated in the talks on the climate in Paris and she signed an agreement in which Italy took precise commitments but the investments that our country is doing go in the opposite direction. So it is important for people to understand that stopping drilling at sea goes in the direction of the commitments that Italy undertook in Paris and so April the 17th is an important occasion to achieve this result. They often tell us that if you stop offshore drilling or if you stop digging the soil, we will lose jobs. Valentina, you are a trade unionist. What do you think of that? Well, Fium is also the trade union that organizzes the workers that produce the pipes that are also used for oil drilling but we do not accept those who try to put jobs and environment in contrast with one another. We need to get rid of this framework and to get rid of that rhetoric that is trying to play on this contradiction also among workers. Of course, the referendum will not have an immediate impact on jobs because at the center of the referendum is the duration of concessions for drilling or authorizations for drilling but anyway there is a more general point which is that the model that our drilling is applying is a failing model Otherwise, we should not continue to simply defend the model just because this way we will protect jobs by defending a model that is a 19th century one and this will not work. We have of course to bear in mind the complexities of the world of labor but we should not simply defend the status quo but rather have a more general vision in mind This is why Fium is contributing to the campaign on the no drilling referendum but is also contributing to the campaign on the constitutional referendum because you cannot split the discourse on democracy and on a social crisis and on the environment we must think in overall terms and try and develop proposals that can keep these different aspects together Tell me more about this One of the issues that also Yanis explored in his opening remarks is that of ecological transition As a trade union and one that is a metalworking trade union represents somehow a 20th century model What is your position on the great issue of the green economic transition? Well, one of our proposals in the platform that we just presented one of our proposals says that we should create a permanent table on environmental sustainability This is because we in Germany a permanent table on this topic has been created more than three years ago The problem in general is how we can think of productive reconversion also in terms of the impact of production that can create jobs Yanis Varoufakis in his introduction spoke of maintaining strategic sovereignty of the people with respect to Google We all use smartphones did not appear out of nowhere The Silicon Valley is the result of a process of investment So together with the digital revolution we should really think of a circle in terms of a circular economy that is supported also through investments in order to create sustainability plans that can work in terms of prevention and not simply in terms of controlling the damaging effects Of course this is also connected to the issue of knowledge, education and so far and so forth Yes, and one of the most important proposals of the M25 has to do with what you just said and make sure that the ECB stops printing 80 million euros a month just to give them to the banks but rather to invest this money directly in buying bonds from the European Bank of Investment so that we can build a great investment plan at the European level for a green transformation of our productive sphere Marica There are those who say that you need oil drilling in order to create jobs but that's not the case You need drilling or you won't have any energy Is that true? No, that's not true What we need what is urgent is to engage in a radical rethinking of the economic system We often speak of change but in fact no change occurs just slight corrections are introduced We must understand the difference between the green economy and a deep radical reconversion of what we produce as Valentina just said We must think in terms of how we produce what we produce, for which reason we produce and we need public investments and we need structural funds and European funds to be redirected towards green technologies We are still investing a huge amount of money every year in fossil fuels and all that money could be reinvested for different purposes The issue of the energy is the central one which is at the heart of our economy and giving up fossil fuels is something that we just have to do and as fast as we can Scientists have told us that our biosphere can only absorb emissions deriving from one fifth of the current drilling sites This means that all the other ones must be shut down We do have alternatives in terms of renewable energies of an energetic democracy Let me quote a study by the Stanford and Berkeley University that was recently published They verified that with the existing technologies in the United States you could create a scenario where by 2050 you can produce all the energy that the United States needs only through renewable energies so it means that the objective can be achieved but there is a lack of a political will and that is why as a society we must push in this direction Thank you, Marika What can we suggest to Yanis? What should we do? Tell me one minute, as the M25 on the environment and the ecological transition Well, I believe that another point that is strictly connected to that of the environment is that of democracy And democratization is an issue that does not interest only European institutions but also decision making processes at the local level where local communities are the victims of very negative environmental effects and effects for the health and they do not have a voice so bringing democracy back into our society is essential and if we wish to democratize Europe we must also think how we can rebuild democracy at the community level this is essential and we need also to use the existing tools in this direction in the tool of the referendum on April 17 I continue on what I was saying I just continue on the same on the point of the referendum the fact that we need again democratic control over our local communities is an essential point and it is not a case that the government is trying to sabotage on this we are speaking of a government that was not elected and is telling Italian citizens that they should not cast a vote so basically what they are saying is that popular sovereignty is dangerous on these issues so I believe that the issue of democracy is essential also from an environmental perspective the other thing that we need at the European level is a single industrial policy a single energy policy at the European level you said Lorenzo you just said I am 31 years old I do not wish to be a witness to the failure of Europe I personally belong to that generation that was educated in the name of the environment and now what we see is instead a situation where we are making horrible agreements to sacrifice migrants in the name of agreements with countries for our interests and really we should go back to two essential values for our people being pro-European and in favour of the environment