 From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. RSA conference takes place in the last week of April this year at a time when the industry is at a crossroads. Once hopeful that the security industry would be shielded from macroeconomic conditions, the past year has been painful for many investors with some exceptions, most notably Palo Alto networks and Fortinet. And that said, Q1 saw a rebound in tech and for the most part cyber lag tech, largely attributable to a rally in semis, which is oftentimes a leading indicator in normal times, but we did see a bounce back from names like CrowdStrike. But look, these aren't normal times and RSA gives us a nice opportunity to assess the situation in the market. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. And this Breaking Analysis will update you on the latest trends in the market and what to expect at RSA this year. And we'll also share the latest ETR spending data and drill into the areas of cybersecurity that are seeing the most action. As always, we'll highlight those companies with the strongest and some of the weakest momentum and close with a look at some of the emerging technology players and security that might be ripe for acquisition. And to do all this, we once again welcome in our colleague, Eric Bradley from ETR, Eric, good to see you. Great to see you too, Dave. I always enjoy collaborating with you and we've got some fresh data for you. We just closed a week ago. So all the data we'll be going over today is brand new. Awesome. Let me just do a quick rundown of some of the themes that we expect this year at RSA. As we intimated the top, no sector's safe from the economic headwinds. I want you to weigh in on zero trust, Eric, because we're hearing a lot from CISOs that this is now a thing, not just a bunch of marketing mumbo jumbo. RSA is going to hammer AI, but the reality is AI is going to be embedded in platforms. And while there's going to be a lot of focus on automation, it's unclear how foundation models like GPT are going to be deployed. But most certainly everyone's expecting more sophisticated fishing techniques, increasingly clever evasion methods, and adversaries, as we know, are going to use AI to better target assets. But RSA is going to be, I'm going to be really interested at how the industry will respond to this never-ending escalation. And Eric, we all hate passwords. They got to go. I know you've done some work on XDR and are hearing more from the community on that front. And the other thing is securities move beyond the boardroom, and it's now like a whole house thing. The whole company has to care about it. We're going to talk about the emerging security companies. And finally, identity remains a sub-segment, but it begs the question, is the industry facing an identity crisis? Eric, comment on some of these highlights, anything you want to add on whether it's XDR or AI, or what do you expect? Yeah, I could go through all of them, but I'll start with just the first one you mentioned, which is the Zero Trust. You and I have been doing this long enough. We know that it started as a marketing buzzword and that eventually turned in from marketing into, well, Zero Trust is a philosophy. And then now what we're seeing is it's not a philosophy. It's an actual application. It's a software-defined approach to security. And it's going all the way from the boardroom, all the way down into the DevOps, the shift left all the way through. And Zero Trust is no longer hype. It is real. It is the number one priority among our community. And it begs the question now with open generative AI and large language models. Now, right now, is it hype? Is it headlines? Maybe, but just like we saw at Zero Trust, I'm fairly certain that this is going to work its way into security as well. All right, let's kick things off with some spending data. Eric, it keeps getting worse. We entered 2023 expecting 5.6% spending growth. We're now down to 3.6% overall. Q2 is looking pretty tepid. The good news is ETR's Technology Spending Intention Survey had about 1700 respondents this quarter. A new record, the bad news is the data is probably better than it's ever been, Eric. What's your take on the latest data? The more people we survey, the worse it gets, right? Yeah, really interesting. So I know Gartner came out recently with a 5.5%. Our data is showing more about 3.6% across the board. But one of the things that we can do that they can is we can break this down by all separate demographics, whether that's region, whether that's industry vertical or size. And something that's interesting to point out here is that the bigger the company, the less you plan on spending. So the highest spend for next year is actually with small organizations where the Fortune 100 respondents are planning on growing less than 1% of their budget. And I think it's just really interesting to note. I don't know if that's because smaller players are catching up or larger companies are just being a little bit more cautious. But it is interesting to note. And in addition, we're also seeing that energy and utilities, the type of industry that we used to call a dividend stock or a conservative type of name, they are the highest spenders as well. So even though the data is coming down across the board on an aggregate basis, there are some pockets of spend most most importantly in the small organizations. All right, let's take a look at the sector positions, Eric, because ETR has a taxonomy and I love the fact that it's consistent every quarter. We can go back and look at how it did on a time series basis. This chart shows net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and the presence in the data set, pervasiveness on the horizontal axis. Every single sector is down, including cloud and cyber, which is shown with the squiggly lines indicating the position over the last several surveys. There are some bright spots though, as you said, the small and mid-sized businesses, energy, and of course the government continues to spend. But healthcare, tech, retail, and financials are all below the mean, Eric. Anything you'd add? Yeah, a couple of things. I mean, also on the government side, right? I mean, we're passing legislation that they have to catch up on security. So that spend is also going to help. There's no doubt about it. And on the sector basis, it really is kind of scary because it's across the board. Generally in years past, we've lived through a lot of tough times and we'll see one or two areas, but nothing seems immune to the current environment right now. Normally cloud spending is immune. Normally security spending is immune. And even though our data shows them as the highest priorities, the overall spending's still coming down. Yeah, Andy Jesse, his letter at the shareholders, his annual letter talked about being a tough year and they're still able to innovate. But he basically said it's getting, things are slowing down and we've reported on this quite extensively. Cloud's still significantly outpacing on-prem by quite a wide margin, but it's down from the, certainly down from the 30% growth levels down in the mid-day. In that letter, you specifically called out AWS too, not just across the board, but true cloud services as the real problem. It was an interesting letter. Yep, absolutely. We talked earlier about zero trust and this is a new data point. I'm really excited that you guys added this to the survey. Let's talk through this chart. What is this telling us? Zero trust being now the number one initiative? Sure. First of all, shout out to you, Dave, because I remember about six months ago, you said, you know, you keep running the same question and every single year security is number one. I don't even want to show this anymore. So because of that conversation you and I had, we actually decided to change this question up a little bit and this is based on a top trends interview series that I conducted back in January where we took 10 CIOs and CISOs, asked them what their top trends were. We can all see that on the ETR platform if you want. But what we did is we took those top trends and then put them as the ranking order, but lo and behold, security was number one again, this time zero trust security. And then we also dug down a little bit deeper later in the survey to find out exactly which aspects of security were of the most important and the highest priority, which we can dig into. But again, to your earlier point, this is not hype, this is not a philosophy, this is a real application that CISOs are employing. All right, Eric, let's double click now on that security piece. We know security is the number one priority, but then what you guys did, which was great, was you double clicked on that and said, okay, what areas of security are you really focused on? Take us through this chart, please. Yeah, it was interesting. So we decided to say, let's go one level deeper on this one. And we know security is the number one priority, but that data point was just getting stale. No one was really interested in hearing about it anymore. So we decided to say, okay, let's figure out which ones there are. And identity access management number one was not surprising. What was surprising and jumped off this page to me was vulnerability management being tied for number one priority. We think of that as just basic hygiene. That's security, scanning, patching. That's not something that we think of as the highest priority in the sexiest. But right now in all the conversations I'm having, constantly vulnerability management is coming up. And I'd love to talk about a little bit deeper if we could, but one of the things we're also seeing is right next to it is the EDR moving into XDR. And this is probably the biggest trend that I expect to hear a lot about it at RSA. This EDR moving to XDR can really be disruptive to everything. It can be disruptive to vulnerability management. It can be disruptive to log management like SIM and the observability players like Elastic and Datadog. If you're doing XDR properly, all of that data telemetry is going to be coming into that. And therefore they can disrupt a lot. You can take a lot of budget out. I've heard some Sizzos tell me that CrowdStrike and Sentinel-1 have come to them and said, get rid of QALIS, get rid of Tenable, get rid of Rapid7, I can do it for you. Now they're not ready to go ahead and do that, but that's the rhetoric that's happening in the marketplace right now. So it's something to really keep an eye on. Yeah, you know, and the Sizzos have told us that if it weren't for their compliance requirements, they'd love to get rid of their SIM, right? That's sort of what you're talking about here. Explain the EDR to XDR because a lot of companies are sort of jumping on that XDR bandwagon and it's become kind of a lot of marketing confusion around that. Help us cut through that. There's definitely marketing confusion around it, but basically what's happening here is we've had old school endpoint, we had old school antivirus and endpoint, then the endpoint kind of moved and moved and moved. Identity became the endpoint. And now what we're seeing is just throw the word X in front of anything, right? Because now what we're saying is it's not just the endpoint, it's anything that's out there in the perimeter we can now gather information from. We can take data telemetry from it and bring it in. And the real key here is not just about bringing it in and throwing it into your logging machine, it's about automating that response. What do I do with it? This way your CISO has a playbook. This way you don't have a million sock analysts fatigued and tiring and looking at every single alert that comes through. It's really about the detection and response part. So it's the D and the R that's more important than the X in XDR. And does it sound like hype? It does, but it's not. The CISOs I talked to are extremely excited about it. Everybody's chasing it. Crowdstrike's the leader. Sentinel-1's still out there trying to get their way. Cisco is working on one. Palo Alto's got it. Fortinet, which we call four to everything, does it as well. And Fortinet, I just want to call them out because we saw that the small organizations are spending the most. And Fortinet's really doing the best with them. It's actually the only security leader in our data that has a net score that's up year over year, the only one. And it might have something to do with the fact that they're so big in small and mid-sized organizations. And it's interesting when you look at the Cyber Stock Index, generally it's down, certainly down over the past year. Year to date it's done a little bit better, but it's performed below the NASDAQ. But no question, two companies stand out over the downturn. It's Palo Alto and Fortinet. Fortinet actually done quite well. Crowdstrike got hit, of course, came back. And your point about small business is interesting because two quarters ago they cited softness in the small business. They had a really good quarter or last quarter. And they did a deal with Dell, which is obviously very strong in small business. So that's going to be interesting to see if small businesses sort of gravitate toward that play or they go toward like a managed service, you know, a security provider, like an Arctic Wolf or someone like that. That's going to be really interesting to see how that plays out. Interesting that you bring up Arctic Wolf. I think we have that data, so I'll save that time. They're one of the best in our emerging technology survey. And I really do believe these managed service security providers are having a big impact on the space right now and we're going to hear more about them. All right, so before we get there, let's drill into some of the leaders in the security space. Here's that same X, Y two-dimensional graphic that we talk about all the time, spending momentum or net score on the Y axis and overlap within the data set or really the X axis is plotted based on the shared number of mentions. That red dotted line, that's sort of an indicator of a highly elevated spending velocity on a platform. And on the insert in the bottom right, we've pasted those companies that are near or above that net score of 40%. Microsoft, Auth0, CrowdStrike, Cyberock, Octa, which also owns Auth0. So if you add those up, it's pretty impressive. And then SailPoint and Zscaler. So Eric, fewer names above the 40% level today than we've seen in the past couple of years. What's your view on the competitive action in the market? Well, we've got a very crowded marketplace. There's no doubt about it. And so many of these people are viewed as niche or point solutions and they could be best to breed. But I wanna call out just that one name that's hiding in the top right corner there, Microsoft. Now, are they the best at everything? No, they're not, but they're getting pretty good. They're getting good enough. And I had one scissor recently told me, obviously I'd love to have something like Splunker, Elastic or Sentinel. But if I just need a workman's like job, I'm gonna go to Microsoft because it's better for me from a cost perspective. It's better for me from a human management perspective. And Microsoft just continues to do the job well. And now with generative AI and large language models, I'm really interested to see what they do. They're still gonna be a dominant factor in security. But overall spending is coming down. That's the backdrop. So I'm not so concerned to see these net scores dipping below the 40% level. The ones that you consider best to breed are still up there. Obviously the crowd strikes as e-scalers, the octas, the sale points, they're still up at that level. And I think if we see budgets return, we'll see if those net scores go back up as well. I'm not as worried about the drop. It really is something that you should expect in the spending environment and the concerns we have on a macro basis. You know, octa and octa zero, interesting. I mean, I loved that acquisition. I never liked the price. It was $7 billion price tag, but I loved the fact that octa had the enterprise sewn up, octa zero and octa was missing. It was a gap for developers and that's really what octa zero had. And then two things happened to octa. They had that benign hack and it was just they kind of misplayed the communications on it and that hurt them a little bit. And then they just didn't, they never figured out the go-to-market with octa zero. They sort of, they thought they had it and they made a move and it just didn't work. And so I've always, but I've always been sanguine about octa long term. I like the company. They're everywhere you go. People talk about them as best of breed. So I think once they finally figure that out that the, you know, the five year outlook, if you will, for octa is really positive. What do you think? If we have a moment, yeah, I'd love to touch upon that because I know we're going to go to this potential targets disruptors model. So a couple of years back, if I would cross-reference the emerging technology security plays with octa's accounts, octa zero was up and to the right. They were number one in octa's accounts. So it wasn't that surprising to me to say octa went out and said, you know what? This is our number one competitor. If you just want out of the box integrations, you're using octa, but if you need some actual development, people are going off zero. And I agree with you. It was a really smart acquisition. Now the integration of it, maybe not because it seems as if right now they're just letting all zero be all zero. It's not really integrated, but both of them have incredibly high net scores. And, you know, pervasion is get creeping up more and more for all zero and octa is an incredibly pervasive vendors. So agree with you on that point. All right, let's have a look at what we call the four star security companies. This is kind of something we came up with a few years ago that underscores the capability of the ETR data platform. It's simple, but it's really powerful. What we're doing here is we're taking the top 20 companies in the survey with an N of at least 100. And we're sorting them on the left hand side by net score, that's spending momentum. And the right hand side is the number of N, number of mentions in the data set. And that red dotted line is the top 10 for each of the cuts. And if a company makes the top 10 in both spending momentum and presence in the data, i.e. shared N, we give them four stars. And we've given two stars for honorable mention if the company makes the top 20 in both. And so Microsoft Palo Alto, CrowdStrike and octa get four stars and that's octa even without including odd zero. Fortinet just missed. So sometimes it gets four stars. We probably should give it three stars here, but no before is right there. Zscaler and Cloudflare as well. And Cyberark is also strong. Cyberark has 45% net score. It just needs a bit more market presence to get that four star level. Eric, what do you think of this simple methodology and any takeaways that you have? First of all, I love it. I play with this data all day long and I've never done this before. So it might be stealing it from you, Dave. I think it's fantastic. Couple of names here that really jump out. I think no before needs to get an honorable mention as well. They're just doing fantastic work and people are using them for the training aspect. And as we all know with all of these attacks it almost always comes down to some human myths. Training is imperative and no before is in a great spot for that training. So I think they deserve a quick call out. The other one here that we have to talk about is Cloudflare. I mean, Cloudflare is just absolutely amazing. They're in great position because people are already using them. If you have any application, if you have any web application presence, they're already being used and they are just across the board. So they've got also denial of distribution of service. They got the DDoS, they've got web access firewall, they've got balancing, they've got bot protection and everything we hear about Cloudflare are the people that are using them are extremely pleased with the service and they just kind of keep adding more and more and more security. And they're really one of these names that just, you can't give them enough credit. They're becoming more pervasive in the enterprise. Their net score, their spending is off the charts. And I think they're going to be more acquisitive going forward. You know, last summer, one of the folks that watches breaking analysis emailed me and said, I won't tell you who it is, but it was somewhat at one of the hyperscalers. I'll tell you that and said, Dave, you know, love breaking analysis. You know much about Cloudflare. And I was like, I don't really follow them. You know, that's not a company I'm tuned into. And this individual said, you got to check them out. So I did, I did a breaking analysis. Of course, the first thing I did is I went to the ETR dataset and I went, wow. And then I started getting into the financials and watching some videos and, you know, their CEO. I think, you know, really interesting. They put forth their, watch their investor day. It was extremely impressive. And my conclusion was, this is what multicloud should have been. You know, they basically have the super cloud as we talk about sometime. And so, and then as you learn more about them, it's pretty impressive. They've announced a, you know, an object store. They get databases and it's early days, but I think they've got big ambitions. And I think with the distributed computing happening, they're in a good position. Yeah. I mean, it's fantastic. It's a play that was really simple. It started off with, I think we could take share from Acoma on content delivery, right? We're cloud native. They're not, let's just start there. And then they just kept growing and growing and growing. And with their global pop network being right out there on the edge, they're in the right spot. They're going where the puck is headed. I just think they're fantastic and they keep adding more security. This is actually the first time we track them as a true cloud computing player. And they're already in line with Google, with GCP. They've got the same net score as GCP in our cloud computing sector, which I just blew me away. Yeah. It's funny. I said I didn't know who they were, but then actually my VPN is 1.1.1.1. And so I was like, oh wow, that is cloud player. All right. Let's turn to some of the emerging tech companies in cyber, ETR. I love this survey. It accelerated its investment in emerging technology survey ETS over the past year. And this is a treasure trove of data. Eric, these are privately held companies that you guys specifically survey with IT decision makers. And we're talking about a survey with more than 1400 respondents. And this is the cyber segment. It's actually mind boggling. Isn't it that in such a crowded market, there's still so much room for many emerging companies and as well, so many that are well known based on this net sentiment data on the vertical axis, which is really an intent to engage and then the mind share on the X axis. So a couple of names really stand out, but over to you, Eric, maybe explain this in more detail. Yeah, certainly. So for historically, real quickly, everyone knows that ETR was launched really as a financial services research company. So we started off researching the public tech companies, but obviously private and the venture capital became so big that we needed something for them as well. And now it's really just more about the enterprise tech company themselves needing this competitive intelligence data. So you're right, we really have doubled down on this emerging side. What really jumps out to me is I have a different view over here on my screen I'm looking at, which is just the overall plans to evaluate and the number one and number two name are both the same, they're both sneak. And that's because we follow them in container security and application security. The reason I want to bring it up is because we talked earlier about vulnerability management, the XDR players trying to encroach on them. The other issue with vulnerability management was they weren't born cloud native. They were born with more old-fashioned type of network and on-prem stuff. These guys are cloud native. These guys work in containers. These guys work in cloud architectures. I don't think they're going away. There's a lot of names on this list that I just think are just dominating in their space. It's only a matter of time before they either get taken out or go public themselves. So there's a lot of data here and this data can be predicted. We've predicted acquisitions before by crossing this data with the public thesis data and really seeing where the overlap is with the end user base. Okay, so I had never done that before but I did it this time. I took a stab at it, tell me how I did. So this next chart unveils it which is an amazing capability in ETR's data. So what we're doing here is we're taking, as Eric just said, the privately held companies in the ETS data and then we pick some possible acquiring companies from the thesis. And I kind of loaded up here, Eric. I thought, okay, we got Cloudflare, Fortinet, Palo Alto, Cisco, IBM, CrowdStrike, Zeke Scaler, Microsoft, Google, AWS, CyberArch and Okta as possible acquirers. But this data is telling us is the overlap, correct me if I'm wrong, between these publicly traded companies in the thesis technology spending intention survey and crossing them with the emerging technology companies to highlight possible acquisitions. Eric, is that right? And what does this data tell you? That is 100% accurate. So what you're looking here on the left side is of those 870 people, that's people that took the thesis and cited spending for these companies over there on the left. Then among those 870, we say, okay, which companies on the emerging or private side are best positioned. Therefore, basically whether it's tech stack alignment or disruption, for some reason, there's a very strong correlation in their accounts, meaning you have the same customers basically. So they're either disrupting you or there's some actual sort of contingency there where the tech stack alignment benefits each other and they correlate together. So when we actually look at the numbers here, again, Sneak jumps out at me, Sneak jumps out right away. A name like Salt Security that does API security, so important right now, they jump out at me. Abnormal is an email security. We haven't seen email security change in so long. And we're still using GroupPoint. And right now, as you mentioned earlier in the show, I truly expect Generative AI to increase the efficacy of phishing campaigns. All of us need to ratchet up our email filters. So these are all names that should be looked at. And I think the big companies with cash are looking at them because there's another factor at play. SVP just failed. Private equity funding isn't what it used to be. We're in a bad macro environment. If these guys need cash, they're not just gonna go back and do a series D at the same valuation. That world's over for right now. But you know who does have the cash? Some of the public companies, they're sitting on it. And there's people out there that are used to acquiring like a Palo, like a Cisco, like others. They are used to making acquisitions. They have cash and there's a lot of great companies out there for the taking. And in the past, we've actually predicted just to name two of them, Palo Alto taking out Twistlock and Octa taking out Office Zero through this exact screen that you did. I give you an A plus on this screen, Dave. You did a great job on this model. Thank you. Yeah, bring it back up. Thank you, Ken. So, you know, I want to, I had not really studied this. You mentioned two companies where it was predictive. I would think, Eric, that companies like Sneak, One Trust, we didn't talk about Arctic Wolf, but they're really showing up consistently. You know, they got a lot of money in. They got, I think they have sort of desires to go public. However, you know, who knows when the IPO market's going to come back. But also, I would think there's some gems in the lower left here. Companies that don't have the mind share, maybe they don't have the go to market, but there's maybe some good tech in there that a company like, I think about like an acquisition that VMware made in Carbon Black, right? I mean, you had a company like CrowdStrike had a huge valuation during the pandemic and they picked up Carbon Black for I think a couple of billion dollars. You know, good technology but didn't really have that same momentum brought it into their fold. You know, you look at Carbon Black in the ETR service, it doesn't have a huge amount of momentum but I still think VMware has a pretty strong security story. But so I would think some of the lower left there might be really interesting candidates for M&A, especially if they don't have a lot of runway. Yeah, I think you're right about that because they're going to be the ones that dry up first, right? Because they don't have the momentum so they're not going to get the valuation. So they're the ones who are going to be more likely to go looking for that type of partner or takeout. The armor is one of them has great technology but really hasn't had the momentum in enterprise tech. I'd have to look at it a little bit more to come out with a couple of more names but I think it's a very astute point that it's not just the ones on the top right, it could be the ones in the lower left based on their technology and the funding might be drying up for them more quickly than the others. Yeah, cool. All right, one more because I just can't resist talking about chat GPT and the latest ETR drill down survey you asked decision makers if their firms are evaluating large language models and if so, for what purpose? And Eric, the first thing that struck me as odd is half the sample said they're not evaluating which is surprising but I'll bet someone at their firm is looking at it but the more interesting stats are of course the use cases, chat bots of course, summarizing texts, both strengths of chat GPT, writing code and documentation, sales and marketing copy they should throw in writing poetry, it's amazing at that. And not so much happening in the context of cybersecurity is there based on the initial scan of the market? No, we've done a bunch of work on this immediately in early March when it came out I was fortunate enough to get called by a fantastic journalist at the Wall Street Journal and work with him on our report. We did a flash survey and what we found out with that flash survey was right now it's more hype than anything people are scared of it. Even my own company had to come out with a policy telling our employees hey, you're not allowed to throw our data on there because once you throw your data on there it's not ours anymore. So people are still really concerned about the guardrails around it. Now, the issue is you're not gonna avoid this buzz. This is the ultimate shadow application. People are going to go and try it and use it. It's going to creep in. Therefore, I believe large enterprises are gonna trust a partner more than going to a straight up chat GP type of open AI. I think they'd rather see it worked in with Microsoft they'd rather see it worked in with Salesforce or AWS or BCP. And we're hearing more and more announcements about that. I think that's the way it's gonna get into the enterprise, but I do wanna state that also when we did the ETS open AI had the largest ever debut score on people saying they plan to evaluate it the highest ever. So if they can convert that plan to evaluation into actual customers it'll be really interesting to see in the next ETS. I wanna see if that number moves. But specifically to this drill down what we're seeing here is it's really more about customer support than it is about creating its own. We did not specifically ask about security in here but I've had multiple people tell me and I can even quote one once we get more leverage out of AI into RPA it's going to help close the gap in cyber risk models specifically. Right now it's a buzzword but the more and more intelligence we get in it's going to become a true measure in terms of our risk management. That was a direct quote from a CISO at a global 2000 organization when I asked them about this in general. It's just a matter of time Dave, it's going to happen. You know, the last 120 days or so with the chat, CPT has just been amazing. You know, the bar at AWS announced yesterday it's large language model strategy and I was reading about it on the AWS blog and I'm looking at a picture of now they have generative AI and they use these three components, Amazon Bedrock. Bedrock's like a foundation model as a service. They got Tranium which is their sort of arm-based training silicon and then they got Amazon Code Whisperer which is like an AI based code generator. It was interesting to sort of juxtapose how Amazon is basically saying here are the tools for the builders versus, you know, what Chat CPT's doing what Microsoft seems to be doing sort of embedding it, as you say, into their software and maybe Google would search more consumer oriented versus enterprise with AWS and of course AWS has Alexa which maybe could be their consumer play but I got to tell you, so I had dinner last night with not so much an AI expert, he knows AI deep. He's an expert on a lot of different things but he deepened the government and he was basically saying, look, this stuff has been around for a long time. He told me about something called Eliza which was in the 1960s, they called it in the 60s a chatterbot, it was like one of the first chatbots and people at the time were like, wow, this machine has feelings and he was explaining to me, Dave, these things do not have emotion but I find myself saying thank you to Chat CPT sometimes and please can you and so his point was, look, this has been around for a long time with Chat CPT, it's incredibly powerful but it's largely, it's been iterating over a long time with greater processing power, more data and now natural language processing and better search and more data but his point was, he sees amazing potential if it's very narrowly applied so kind of bringing it back to security, you've mentioned that, hey, a lot of companies have been using machine intelligence for understanding telemetry, we've seen CrowdStrike make some acquisitions near Zook of Palo Alto Networks last year at Ignite said within five years every job is going to be AI powered so this is not anything that's like new to security companies but it does feel like, with the hype that we're entering a new era here. Yeah, it's not new and I had a couple of CIOs say to me in choice language, bleep Chat GPT, this has been around forever. That's why I like prefer using that LOM, the large language model, right? Because let's just be honest about what this is. This isn't something that's new, right? This is just like you said, maybe just better application of something that's been around for a long time. Now for security, I think why we're gonna see it's embedded a little bit into RPA first is because of SOC analyst fatigue. There's only so many alerts a human being can look at. So it's really again, remember we talked about XDR, it's really more about that response aspect. I think we're gonna be able to see more automation into these type of security vendors and services. So we can kind of reduce some of that fatigue a little bit and determine what really needs attention and what doesn't and also just be a little bit quicker in their responses. That's where I think we're gonna see it first. But yes, it's been around a long time. It's incredibly interesting. It's going to stay interesting. And I think we're going to hear a lot more about it at RSA, that's for sure. Well, speaking of RSA, we're going to wrap up. Before we do just want to give you a little rundown of theCUBE at RSA. We were approved by the RSA conference as a media partner this year. So we're going to be on media row broadcasting from Moscone West. We've got CISOs, cyber experts, we've got analysts and we're going to a lot of thought leaders. We're going to have a great show. I'm super excited to be there. We got a big crew, a lot of our editorial staff is going to be there. So you can check out the action on siliconangle.com. We're going to have all the news there and announcements, cube.net will be broadcasting. Eric, I know you won't be there in person, but I hope you'll be watching and texting me all your insights so I can lay down some ideas in the cube and really appreciate your collaboration here. Now me too, I always enjoy working with you, Dave. I'll be there anytime you need some support, you need some data on the guy to call. We're going to leave it there for now. Thanks to Eric Bradley for his awesome contributions. As always, Alex Meyerson is on production and manages the podcast. Ken Schiffman running switching today. He must have lost the coin toss as well. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight help get the word out on social media and in our newsletters and Rob Hope is our editor-in-chief over at siliconangle.com. Does some great work for us, thank you. Remember all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen, just search Breaking Analysis Podcast. We publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. Check out all the videos on the cube.net and you can email me at David.Valante at siliconangle.com or DM me at dvalante or comment on our LinkedIn posts. And please check out etr.ai. Their survey data is unbelievable. It keeps getting better. Focuses on enterprise tech, a phenomenal partnership and more to come. Okay, this is Dave Valante for Eric Bradley, the Cube Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on Breaking Analysis and at RSA conference at the end of the month.