 Eight police officers were killed during a violent anti-government protest in Sierra Leone on Wednesday. The country's youth minister had announced this. Officers, six men and two women, were brutalised and killed in the area where the protest held on Wednesday. Youth Minister Mohammed Bangura had said this. He was reported that hundreds of protesters took to the streets of the capital, Freetown, protesting inflation and the rising cost of living in the West African country. Youth Minister Bangura described the protest as an act of terrorism. Well, joining us to discuss this is Joseph Smith, apologies. Joining us to discuss this is Abdul Karim Will, his deputy director strategic communications and spokesperson, Office of the National Security in Sierra Leone. It's good to have you join us, Mr Abdul Karim. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure being with you. Thank you. Let's start by looking at what exactly transpired that led to the deaths of these eight officers. Can you hear me? Are you coming broken? However, if I could get to you. I heard that you are asking that I should give you an update of how what happened happened. Yes. Thank you. I am certain you have followed that you followed on happenings in different parts of Sierra Leone. You must have seen graphic videos, text messages and pictures making the rounds on mainstream and social media. They actually depict the candidate that was meted out on the people of Freetown and some parts of the Northern region a couple of days ago. To say the least, this is very sad. It's unfortunate and it's totally condemned on the part of the Office of National Security, which is a government agency in charge of coordinating the security sector. I'm so sorry. I think there's a break between us, but we understand that this started as a protest against the cost of leaving in the country. Because you're in charge of security, I want you to zoom in on when this became violent. At what point did it become violent so much so that because I hear that two women were killed in an area while they were protesting? It started as a violent protest. Ordinarily, demonstrations are one that should be sanctioned by the Sierra Leone police, which has a responsibility by law to blind people who want to go to peaceful demonstration plans. However, in a situation, a couple of months ago, we had a various groupings, especially people from the diaspora, sending incendiary messages, telling on people to come out and take over government. Those were the exact words, if I could say so. They were even threatening that when they would be coming out to do those demonstrations, if people do not join them, they will be lynched, they will be killed, and they aren't committed on their properties if they fail to join. To us, that is not the way to ask for a clearance. You do not ask for clearance via social media. Are you sure that, Mr Abdul Karim? Mr Abdul Karim, can you hear us? We lost connection with you for a bit, but can you hear us now? I can hear you now. Yes, we're talking about the law and what it allows. Please go over it again. Yes, the law is on demonstrations. It's with the 1965, specifically in section 17.2, of that law stipulates that people who want to go into demonstrations must request from the Inspector General of Police any right statement, any proposed, and time for their demonstration. And they should not be able to sit with the police if it calls the different demonstrations. This did not happen in the situation. We placed a lot of social media messaging, making the secondary calls for demonstrations to come forward and overtake governing. We made deliberate efforts to engage the population, particularly the youth population, that was going to win the target, to say if they want to go into demonstrations that they want to try to do so, or let them do it in confines of the law. We did several engagements on radio, television, deep weather, or in case of guiding the process. Sadly, most people that were making the calls are those that are studying in the Aspera, and they were telling Gulliboo youth back home to jump onto the streets without following the request. I'm curious. Why do you think that this, I mean, because you said there are text messages that were sent, that were inciting people to overrun the government, in your words, what do you think are those who are behind it? And I mean, we know what Cyrillian had gone through over the years when he was at war, and it's finally gradually getting back, you know, some level of peace. Who are these people you think are behind it, and what do you think that the end game is? Because other than saying let's overrun government, that's not something you can do in a day, but why do you think now people would want to overrun a government as opposed to engaging government if the cost of living is actually the reason why this process even started? It is strange to say, to be very strange, because these people of course living are ones that are being discussed across the board. And it is not only affecting one particular region. In the case of all other regions across the country, we agree that things are difficult, and we all appreciate that one. In the process of bringing it to demonstration in advocating for a change in the conditions of living, you have to do so within the provisions of the law. And the demonstrations were not the ideas of what you consider demonstration, because the costs were for the overthrow of governments, for the burning of the down of government vehicles, and the costs were coming specifically, like I've stated, from people who reside abroad, and a few others who are in country, may cost us effort to reform the youth to tell them that contrary to the law, they should not ask for permission, they should move on and protect. And so, on the 8th of August, there were attempts in overrunning government official, especially security parties, on the 9th, same occult, but we were able to pacify the situation. But the vehicles continued coming, and unfortunately, a number of youth jumped into the streets, particularly of play town, and in three other districts, we have to clean the streets in the country. So we had these protests happening in play town, some parts of play town, and three other districts in the northern region. We became concerned, and our teachers, which only had deployed in strategic systems, on hand, because we wanted to ensure the public that were there to provide for their safety and security. And the approach was a kind of one with a human face, not with the public, but to allow those people that wanted to go about their normal things to do that. But sadly, youth came out, they had machete, they had t-shirts on, and all of these were indicating that we couldn't arrest them to go. All effort to pacify them, to do things within the confidence of the law fit. Again, talking about the law here, because I know that you're a government official, and of course you'll be speaking as a government spokesperson. But then, if you have laws, I'm guessing that when it comes to protest or riots, there has to be a modus operandi, is shooting at or battering these protesters, part of the rules of engagement in terms of rioting, because you're not in a war situation. But we saw videos of officials or officers shooting at people. Is that supposed to be part of what you do, especially in trying to douse tension? No. There are rules of engagement. If protesters are unarmed, the protestors are not violent. If they do not and they do not pose a threat to national security, nobody is allowed to shoot at them. I remember, I just think, that the protestors did not start at peaceful ones. They were well calculated. Ordinarily, a demonstration can be planned. They know what they are, they should not have much at ease, and all those kinds of things. Are there no other ways to disarm these people? I'm so sorry to talk over you. Are there no better ways to disarm these people? Rubber bullets, water canisters, something, instead of using live rounds and ammunition? Yes, I agree. There could have been better ways of handling it if the situation has not been generated. By the way, I'm not a government spokesperson. I think for the Office of National Advocates specifically for the security sector. What I'm telling you is from a different point of view, because even before we reached these points, we made a conscious effort to save for the past two weeks to engage on a very robust public campaign to pacify the public that if you want to engage in a peaceful demonstration, then please come to the police and design a way. But because of the insidious causes that we are making in rounds, and because communities were invaded from different public demonstrations, people did not adhere to that. All of a sudden, we began to see the witness seem to be a police officer that has been brutally murdered. Some were not even in deployment. They were coming from defense assignments, and unfortunately, they turned into those kinds of stuff, and they were killed. If the situation began to deteriorate at that level, then you wouldn't see things that you got to think about. It is unfortunate that that was why we made also a enormous effort to call on moral guarantees, opinion leaders, not to keep quiet in the midst of all of this. But sadly, most of them did not say a dime. They did not help us in the campaign to pacify them. They kept quiet, and now, following the carnage that has been wrecked on the people of Petham, we are announcing all sorts of press releases, calling for calm, wanting to buy dialogue platforms that are party to be engaged. And the demonstrations themselves are pointless. They have not told us who the people are. There is a young union that I would agree, but there is no leadership. We just saw people in people, and their targets were government officials, including our security personnel. The number of them has been killed, of course, somewhere that civilians have also been killed. Unfortunately, for a country that is just emerged from a brutal civil conflict, you would expect people to have lived in a way that is different from this way that you don't think. That's sad. Again, I know that you're not a government spokesperson, but you obviously live in that country, and you know how things are done. Talking about peaceful strategies and dialoguing, of course, you need to know who you're dialoguing with or who you're on the table with to have this conversation. But of course, the people also need to be spoken to in a manner that makes them feel that the government cares, because whether we like it or not, there are some other issues at the root of this protest that turned into a bloody one. If people are not happy necessarily, if people are not happy with what's happening in the country, there obviously has to be a way that they register that displeasure, and it has to be through protest. But I think Joseph Smith, who is a Rotary Peace fellow, just joined us. I'm going to toss that question to you, Joseph. Joseph, do you think that the Sierra Leonean government has paid a listening ear to the plights of the people, even before this time? And we're not in any way saying that mayhem is the way to go, but could this have been managed in a different way, other than what we see on our screens right now? Joseph, can you hear me? Yes, hello, yes. Yes. All right, go ahead. Say again, please. I'm getting you working, can yous? All right, I'll try again, Joseph. Can you repeat? Yeah, I'm asking, as a Sierra Leonean, knowing that the protest which turned violent had at the core of it, people registering their displeasure about the cost of living and the economic situation in the country, I'm saying how attentive and listening has the government of Sierra Leone been to the people, and could this have been managed better, other than what we see right now? If the violence is serious in Freetown? Oh, I don't think that you can hear me. I can hear you clearly. I don't think you can hear me, but I'll try again. Could the government of Sierra Leone have handled this situation better, and how listening is the government? How listening is the government? Yes. Yeah, I think in the first place, I wanted to say that the crisis that occur in Freetown, and some parts of the north, specifically in Macboka, Makeni and Kamakue, are basically based around three factors. One is the social economic and political factor. What do we say around the social economic aspect from the demonstrators? Allege when we are also reunions, we are feeling the same thing together, and some of the social and economic issues that the demonstrators were emphasizing on, these are all basically not new things we have been experiencing them since the end of the war. But what is important here to know is that the motivating factor for people to come out from the street is basically lie around politics, political motivation. And this is why if you observe the situation is happening within mainly the stronghold of the opposition party. So, hello. I can hear you. I can hear you. Are you getting me? Yes, I can hear you. Quickly, Joseph, because we're out of time, unfortunately you really can't hear me. What must the government of Sierra Leone do to douse this tension, knowing that it's more of political and of course economic? How can they douse this tension other than using brute force? It's like you are far a bit from the microphone. I'm not getting you clear. I think that we have a connection problem with you, but I'll try one more time because we're out of time. How can the government of Sierra Leone deal with this issue other than using brute force? Unfortunately, I think that Joseph is having connection issues in Sierra Leone. But I want to say thank you. Joseph Smith is a Rotary Peace fellow and a Mining Consortium. And Abdul Karim Will is the deputy, he's the deputy spokesperson for the security department in the director, he's the deputy director at Beggar partner strategic communications and spokesperson of the office of the national security in Sierra Leone. Thank you so much gentlemen. The internet connection has not been so great but we appreciate you for being part of the conversation. Being with you. Thank you. Well, that's the show tonight. I want to thank you all for being part of the conversation. But before we leave you, we'd like to bring you an update of all the conversations we've had all through the week. I'll see you next week. Have a great weekend. I am Mary Anna Cohn.