 Wow, this is an attentive crowd! Can everybody hear me? And we're going to get this program started because we have a lot in store for you today. I'm Sue Minter. I'm the Executive Director of Capstone Community Action. I am thrilled that you are all here in the Barry Old Labor Hall, a community asset that was built in 1900. So we thank the folks whose shoulders we stand on. I also want to tell you I've been looking very forward to this for a number of reasons, not only because it's finally a chance to talk about the needs of our communities, but it's my big first opportunity to publicly sport. Let's give it up for the Burlington High School girls' soccer team and change the story who have been making her story right now, uniting people across this country. They've been in Time Magazine, Sports Illustrated, on our sheroes like Abby Womback, Megan Rapino, let's keep going. Oh, I want to give a couple of quick shout-outs because I'm not here for long. First, events like this don't happen by magic. They happen with talented, skillful, committed people. Shout-out to change the stories. Allie Johnson-Curtz, please stand up. Jessica Nordhaus, Capstone Community Actions. What an only, Liz Scharf. Where are you, Liz? Okay, I also know there are a lot of distinguished public officials here, and I'm not going to take the time or be mistaken by missing somebody. So instead, I'm going to ask everyone who is an elected official. You can be a state representative, a city counselor, a mayor, or a select board member or planning commission. Everyone who is an elected official, please stand up and be recognized because we can scheme and dream, but we need, we know elections matter, and that's why we need great representation in all aspects of our governance. So many of you may have never heard of Capstone Community Action, and I want to just tell you ever so quickly that we are an organization that was born out of the war on poverty in 1965. And we have been working ever since to help Vermonters rise out of poverty. We do that through an array of programs, but they're focused primarily on four key areas, making ends meet through heat, food, and housing, helping build strong families to break the generational cycle of poverty through head start and early learning, helping families keep their homes warm and healthy through our weatherization program, and opening doors of economic opportunity through our suite of financial empowerment programs and workforce programs that you're going to hear more about today. That's what Capstone is all about. And why are we here? And we are so thrilled to be partnering with Change the Story, the Vermont Works for Women, the Women's Commission, the Women's Fund. Why here and why with Capstone? Well, sadly, you're going to learn a lot of data today that explains that reasoning, and it's because women make up a disproportionate share of people in poverty, a disproportionate share of people in low-wage jobs, a disproportionate share of families with single-headed households with children who are below the federal poverty level. You're going to learn more about that. But when Tiff and I had breakfast this summer and we were sharing our excitement about our current missions, we started to think about the power of the data that she and Change the Story are bringing to all of us activists and policymakers alike. But we really want to explore today the stories behind the numbers, because it is about more than numbers. It's about real people and their stories. It's about understanding the real-life barriers that exist for so many women and how are they managing to overcome those barriers to change their stories? So today we're going to get a glimpse of some of the data. We're going to meet up close some of the women in Capstone's programs, and I do want to recognize that throughout this room, our program participants are with you in the discovery, and I want to thank each and every one of them for coming and being a part of this today. Because it's really about learning about the challenges and how people are overcoming them that are going to sow the seeds of the change that we are going to build. So let's get going. Right now you're going to start by engaging with one another at your tables. This room is going to get loud and lovely. You have a facilitator at each of your tables, and you have a conversation card, and that's all you need, that and some skills at listening and at sharing. We are going to ask for volunteers in about, we have about 20 minutes, we're still on time to do that, and I'm going to then call some of you to share some important learning that you've made. So thank you for listening to me. Thank you so much for being here. Let's get started. Clap like me. Ready? Excellent. Okay, and now I hope you've had some meaningful conversations at your tables. We want to hear from you. We want to hear what resonated with you, what ideas, what was thought provoking. We're kind of just going to popcorn it up. We understand that you all have someone chosen amongst you to say something. So when you are inspired, and we want many of you to be inspired, please stand up. We have Liz is going to have a mic to share your insights. Who wants to go first? Let's see it. Come on. Who's the winning table? Please introduce yourself and your story. Thank you. And you only have about one minute, because we have about 18 tables in 10 minutes. Hi, my name is Lori Flaherty, and I work for Northern Reliability. We had a lot of good conversation here, but the big points that resonated with all of us were how early finance discrimination starts and the programming from society, and how different the programming is for females versus males. And even talking about children's books and how much there's oppressive gender bias. And we want to know how do we change this cycle? How do we start early changing this cycle? And we also had a really good conversation about childcare and supporting working mothers. And especially the challenges for single parents. Thank you. Fundamental questions that I think we're going to learn more of what's behind those issues. Who's next, please? That was perfect. Lori Flaherty, thank you. And she is from Waterbury, my town, so I will acknowledge that. Okay, I see one with a great t-shirt. And they make great holiday gifts, by the way. They do. They're excellent. Hi. I didn't know you were here, Scott. I'm Stacy King from VSEC. That's my CEO over there. So we had a great conversation here about various ways we all unintentionally reinforced bias all the time. So when I went into the preschool and saw that my daughter's teacher was a male, I was a little taken back. And it turned out he was amazing. And an unnamed person at this table had the experience of a group of women reaching out to a legislature multiple times and then getting no response and finally signing an email as a male and getting a response in 20 minutes. Okay, subliminal unconscious bias, such a problem that we confront on so many levels. Who wants to talk next? Thank you. You guys are doing a great job. I'm Don Magnus. I'm with Central Vermont Economic Development Corporation. And just to kind of dovetail off of what was already being discussed, we ended up kind of going into the conversation of hidden poverty and how prevalent it is in every county in the state. And then that kind of went into the disparity between white women in poverty and women of color in poverty, which then went into the hidden racism in Vermont. And just kind of discussing how can we, as white people, especially at our table, we're all white, address that and just the concepts of what people could say that definitely is racist and might not be understood as racist, like commenting on seeing a non-white person walking on the street and celebrating that concept and wondering where someone is actually from. That's really common when we talked about. And then just the idea of, you know, being what a real Vermonter is and people wanting real Vermonters and what that really means is actually white people and just how to address that sort of thing because you can't talk about women without talking about people of color as well and the racism that's prevalent in our whole country, especially in the rural communities. Thank you. Such intensely important issues. And boy, will you learn more about the kernels of those topics, racism and poverty and all of those unconscious levels of bias that affect the way we think all the time. It's great that we're unveiling them and exploring them. I see a hand here as well as over there for Liz. Here we go right in front and then we'll go to the far side of my right next. Thank you. Excuse me. I'm Ellen Dorsch. I'm not with any organization. I'm a freelancer, I guess. Pardon me? Yeah, I'll hold it. So we certainly second the conversation around age and how so much starts at such an early age but one of my favorite parts of our conversation was we were looking at the Let's Talk card and it says how often are you aware of your gender and we heard a number of situations in one of the women's lives and then she said, but you know what, I'm really delighted when I don't even think about my gender and I thought that was really telling. Thank you. Great point about I was thinking before about gender identity. To the far side of the room and while you're walking I want to acknowledge how great it is that this room is filled with a lot of different perspective, private sector, public sector, freelance sector, folks in the education and the economic development field, obviously in the social service field. Thank you. It's so great to have this range of perspectives. Go ahead. Hi. I'm Laurie Stavrin. I work for USCRI Vermont. As I look around the room, I'm looking for people of color, women of color, men of color, and it's a very white room. I think there are many reasons for that. One is what kind of jobs women of color are able to have. Usually they're lower wage, more restricted in the hours that they have to work. Probably most people in this room have more flexibility or responsibility to be here. And I think it's all of our responsibility to make sure that women of color have a voice. And they have the opportunity to be in management and in leadership positions. Thank you. Thank you so much. And it's reminding me, I'm a serve on a board of directors and we've a national organization that has had a required 100% of the board members across the country have to do training on diversity and inclusion. And it is extremely thought provoking matter that I think we all need to engage no matter where we are in our organizations that we have to be very intentional about inclusion. Where who's next? I know there's people with interesting perspectives to share. I see someone in the middle. Looks like a man. Thank you to all of the men champions here with us. This is not my perspective. I'm the facilitator of this table, so I'm just going to bubble out some of the themes that weren't already expressed earlier. So one of interest talking about messaging that you hear about your gender that was said a few times around this table is the message that someone heard at home as a kid from their parents was not necessarily the same message that they then received when they went to school and the challenges that that created for them. But one very interesting observation that was pointed out is that especially in a room full of champions who are passionate about things like equity and accessibility and opportunity is that we're holding this gathering in a space that is not the most accommodating to someone with a disability. And so even with all the best intentions we can be blind to the barriers that others may face. So I thought that was really interesting. Thank you, Brian. I'm going to call on one last, maybe I have time for two quick comments and those will be the last two. Hi, I'm Linda. I'm speaking for some of the people at my table who brought up an interesting systemic problem among nonprofits and those of us here to help that unwittingly sometimes we put barriers in place to resources, one in particular child care subsidy. The application isn't particularly friendly to someone who has a stay at home self-designed small business. In fact, she stopped the business rather than try to get child care and she stayed home to take care of the kids because the subsidy was just too complicated to get without an ally and an advocate to fill it out. And another person who spoke about trying to get a grant to take a course to change careers as she was getting older and the fine print ended up tripping her up and costing her a lot of money when they nixed it at the last minute. So I think sometimes those of us really trying to help need to be asking the people, how can we make this better? Thank you for raising those incredibly important points that we learn a lot about folks who work with us to improve their lives, the multiple barriers that we often do not recognize without that perspective. Did you want to share Mia and that'll be the last one? Thanks. Hi, I'm Mia Moore. I work for myself as a management and organizational development coach and our conversation was fairly meandering and touched on many of the points that people brought up but ended on an optimistic note which feels good to share. One of the people at our table talked about an example from her life of how she didn't see any women in the workforce represented in her family when she was young and that struck me as how much progress we have made and not in a way of like, oh great, it's so much better than it used to be but more a recognition that that progress came from a lot of agitation and a lot of intentionality for people for their own lives and also communities and organizations like Change the Story really pushing these issues and it gives me a lot of optimism for just looking around and seeing the people in this room and the intentionality that we have about this and the real agitation that we're having right now that we can make significant shifts in just one more generation that even beyond what we've seen so far so I wanted to share that. Thank you for sharing that and I will tell you I am a Title IX generation and for many of you you may not have known but there was no women's soccer I got a chance to play soccer in college I coached soccer I am so proud of these soccer girls moving forward for equal pay and equal rights and let's keep agitating, alright Thank you for sharing Thank you for sharing with one another your stories, your hopes, your aspirations Thank you for listening to one another I think for many of the participants in our programs the most powerful thing we offer is listening and helping them to understand and helping them to believe in themselves so you have no idea the impact that you have I'm excited now we're going to move to a little bit more sharing from the stage and we're going to introduce the partners behind this production and of course the star of the show Tiff, lonely who will share some of the data and then we're going to also invite some of capstone program participants to share some of their success stories and learn from that so I'd like to welcome Cary Brown the executive director of Vermont Commission on Women and have you come on up together because it will be faster that way Ronnie Basden, the brand new executive director of Vermont Works for Women we're so happy that you're here in Vermont with us welcome you don't know how lucky you are now you're getting it and this is Meg Smith the director of the Vermont Women's Fund thank you all and I'm going to give each of you a chance to share a brief bit about you've got the mic, perfect thank you Sue I'm Cary Brown the director of the Vermont Commission on Women we are a state agency we've been around since 1964 and we have never once had a moment where we weren't trying to close that dang wage gap and hopefully we'll be able to move on to some other things every once in a while in the future but one of the things that we have done a lot of in our work is research, provide data and be a source of information but never have we been able to have the depth and the breadth of the data that we have through our partnership with Change the Story and I just can't even express how incredibly valuable and useful it is and one of the things about this report in particular that I think you'll hear at some about is some of the reasons why we have that wage gap so I'm constantly trying to tell people that it's so much more complicated and it's usually portrayed as just simply a matter of equal pay for equal work and some really rotten people discriminated against women and don't pay them properly that happens but there's so much more to it and this report goes into some of those reasons and backs it up with some of the data to illustrate that and to show what we're talking about so I hope you enjoy reading that when you have some time and thank you so much for coming very happy that you're here and thank you I'm excited to be here I'm Ronnie the brand new Week in executive director of Vermont Works for Women but what I think I'm most excited and fortunate about in reading this report and kind of being shared with a preview last week is how fortunate as Vermonters we are to have this level of data and what we can actually do with it as the programmatic arm of this partnership it's exciting to be able to have a strategic direction about where we should be focusing what we should be looking at and also encouraging what we have been doing for the past 30 years making sure that we're not only trying to change the statistics for women currently in the workforce but for that next generation of girls that are coming into this where we really do need to be moving that needle forward so I feel fortunate that we have this level of data it's incredible to come through while some is not surprising it continues to be incredibly disheartening that this is still where women are at in our community so Vermont Works for Women will continue to serve the women and girls in our state and along with this data really make sure that it's an informed and intentional programmatic arm thank you thank you Ronnie and welcome we're thrilled to have you hi everybody I'm Meg Smith I'm director of the Vermont Women's Fund and I'm so fired up to be here today when we first got together well let me first start and tell you about the Women's Fund it was started 25 years ago by a group of women who were frustrated that women and children were not getting the services and the needs that they had to be met by the public and private sector and let's face it money is power and the Women's Fund was started to be a powerful agency for change and that is part of what changed the story is all about and we are the proud funders of change the story with our partners with the Vermont Commission and Vermont Works for Women it's been a really a super amalgam of talent and time and brains and yes data because data is the foundation from which you make change because you've got to have the numbers to make your case and you've got to have the money to make your case and we have been thanks to many of you in this room giving donations every year to help fund this work our work as giving grants to non-profits like Capstone with tremendous programs that serve women and girls specifically as well as are being able to underwrite the costs of change the story FTE women is that right running because they do the work of about 10 people so we're very very proud of that and we have several women here who are either on our council or former council members if you just raise your hands because a lot of you have been doing this work at your hand up Susan helping women in Vermont for years and years but I feel we are making significant change now a lot has happened particularly since 2017 and we when we came out, when Change of Story came out with the first set of reports in 2016 and 17 I've got to say we had a good response but there was a little bit of a oh oh oh more data on women well now that has changed policy makers are using our data thanks to people like you who are clamoring for it and saying we need to make change for women and girls we collectively are being listened to and this really would not have happened save for one person here in this room who came to us with this idea of how do we address systemic change in Vermont for women and girls and without Tiff Bloom-Lay and I won't make her too embarrassed we wouldn't this would not have happened so it's been a monumental effort and Tiff was smart enough to get some very smart women to work with her namely Jessica Nordhaus Allie Johnson Kurtz Lindsay Lathrop-Ryan and a host of many others to really drive this work forward and I'm more proud to introduce Tiff Bloom-Lay thank you hello everybody I love looking at your faces we're so thrilled that you are here and that you braved icy roads to get here we're honored that you're here and it's a good sign because it means that there's some energy and some interest this is the fifth report that we have put together and it started off as a way of updating our data and it quickly became a very long project that has resulted in a 50 page report if you count the endnotes so we figured that not everybody would want to dive that deeply and we put together this executive summary that is in front of you with highlights and our recommendations the full report is on our website and we have some copies here for folks who would like it first like almost anything this is a a village effort and I'd really like anybody who was a reader of this report who gave us feedback to just stand and be recognized for their input which did but come on come on you people yo a lot of you we can go to the next slide I'm not going to walk you through the report that would be boring what I am going to try to do is just hit on some highlights and underscore a few points that I'd like to leave you with and then we'll break into our panel discussion as Sue already said women are a disproportionate share of those who are living on the economic edge so if you look at this graph so single male and female householders the rate for men is 3.5% the poverty rate for women is 11.4% when you introduce minor children to the household women's poverty rate rises to 36.7% and then if those children are under 5% it goes up to 47% next slide please the poverty rate is higher for women with disabilities over twice the rate of women without disabilities and it's also higher for women of color in fact for groups of women black women and Asian women in Vermont the poverty rate is higher than the national average women work they work at a rate that is 8 points higher than the national average and yet next slide about 4 out of 10 of them who work full time cannot make ends meet by the standard the fiscal office has established in the basic needs budget women's earnings overall are 16% lower than those of men and that translates into about $8,000 annually that statistic the wage gap has pretty much been the same for the last decade and that's true in the United States as well progress in reducing the wage gap has stalled where women so why are women's earnings lower and I'm not going to go into great depth but if there are a few things I'm just going to go into women's disproportionate share of low wage jobs they are 45% of full time workers and yet they are 53% of full time workers and they are 53% of low wage workers 43% of women today who work full time work in fields that are traditionally female which typically pay lower wages in fact the statistics about those fields are roughly the same as they were in 1970 another reason why women's earnings are lower is that because of time in and out of the labor force and this is a the Bureau of Labor Statistics does a survey of people who are working part time this is national data some of our data is national and as much of it as we can have Vermont data we've included in the report but this is telling so why do people work part time as likely in the survey to cite family and personal obligations for working four times more than men sorry do you know what I meant good they are also seven times more likely to cite child care problems the cost of leaving the work force was astounding to me when I went to the Center for American Priorities there's a calculator and you plug in when did you start work at what age do you leave the work force for how long what were you making and then they calculate what you lose over a period of time and let's say you started work at 22 you're 35 you have your first child you leave the work force for five years until your child goes to kindergarten the cost of lost wages potential boost in earnings and retirement totals up to over 400 thousand dollars the other this was brought up in your call outs after the let's talk gender discussions gender norms and biases social expectations and outright discrimination all play a role in women's lower earnings pay scale which is an app that tracks allowances for kids they did an analysis of the 10,000 families that are that subscribed to their app guess what they found that girls make half as much allowance as boys and yeah I know I know the AAUW controlled and it did a study and they controlled for all kinds of variables within one year out of college there was a 7% wage gap and then finally this is just an example Pew Research interviewed Americans about attitudes about being in the workplace when you have young children so Americans female male or on the gender spectrum answered well 76% thought men working full time with young children was a way to go but they only said that 33% of women with young children should be working full time those kinds of I'm really hot those kinds of attitudes are so subtle in many ways and they affect us all in a number of different ways next slide please women's economic status is also affected not just by how much they earn but the debt that they carry and women carry two thirds of the student loan debt in this country also women's particular experiences of sexual harassment and intimate partner violence have a bearing on earnings that there have been a lot of studies about this and there is a lot more work to do to really look at that but women who have been sexually harassed are far more likely to leave their jobs than women who haven't within two years so what does this mean if you put this whole picture together women have 60 receive 61% of what men do in social security benefits and if you put all of the the other retirement income they may have access to the median annual income for women over 65 is less than $20,000 in the state of Vermont so and there is this cumulative of different intersections these points in the road add up for women so we need something to shoot for I mean I don't like to always be the bearer of bad news so the Institute for Women's Policy Research did a study state by state and they looked at what if women and men who were of comparable age work experience and lived in either urban or rural settings level of education was comparable what would be the impact on women in each state if they earned if there was pay equity and here's what they found that the poverty rate for working women in Vermont would fall from 4.7% to 1.8% the second largest decrease in the country the poverty rate for single working women with children would fall from 15.4% to 4.5% again the second largest decrease nationwide the poverty rate of children with working mothers would fall 75.6% that's the largest drop in the country so yeah you can go so here are some really inspiring young women and as one of the team members said on VPR yesterday in an interview with Jessica Nordhaus and Mitch Wortlieb we're going to be stepping into the workforce soon it's going to be a real issue for us and we expected something a little bit different in 2020 so so this is why we're doing the work these girls your daughters your granddaughters and our communities and the health of our state we ended the work this time not with questions but with a set of recommendations we felt we'd learned enough over the four and a half years we had to say something and in those recommendations are some really low hanging fruit I hope the legislators in the room will look at those things and I'd be happy to talk with you or Carrie Brown would some will be a real stretch but we don't have a choice but to stretch we have to address these issues head on Catalysts, the World Bank, McKinsey you know every think tank that you can think of all of them agree that women are an economic driver too many women are underemployed too many women are working part time and this state is too old and hard pressed for enough labor to let any drop of talent lay fallow that doesn't really you know what I meant though the fastest growing jobs in number in the state are low wage jobs cashiers personal care attendants waiters waitresses if these jobs are so critical and they are we have to honor them with full time wages that can meet basic needs otherwise what are we saying otherwise what are we saying we are actually training people for many of these jobs so we're investing money but we some I guess are we are assuming women will continue to hold those jobs and we can continue to pay them poorly and that's got to change I want to leave you this part with three thoughts one we can recognize and address the needs of women without negating the needs of men and boys we have the capacity to hold those dual sets of needs and address them but address them perhaps somewhat differently because their experiences are different the wage gap is explained often times I've had many many conversations about this as a product of women's choices while you went into this profession or you decided to have those children yes and we all know that we all make decisions within a context and not all of us are actually not all of us make the decisions that affect us significantly how many women are actually supporting themselves because their partner left them how many women are supporting themselves because their partner died finally a lot of the work really requires us to explore our own biases this is culture change work there's some legislation that can make a difference yes but even for the will for that kind of legislation the culture has to change and we have to get more curious than we normally are about the ways in which our own biases and experiences shape the way we look at the world who we hire, who we promote who we vote for etc moving forward is really about changing our culture and that begins with each of us thanks so I want to invite our panelists up to the table right now so every time I would go to the legislature and I would talk I would take stories, people would say where's the data now when we go to the legislature they say where are the stories and we know that both are important and stories take us out of the abstract and they ground us and they're more real than the numbers are and they're more affecting capstone has invited three program participants talk a little bit about the ways in which their experiences relate to the data that you read in the report we also have Rachel Coppola who is from Vermont Works for Women who runs programs and has her own particular experience in working with women there so I guess what I would like to do is just first give a really brief overview of each of you Rachel I'm going to let you talk about your you know when I invite you to talk you can talk a little bit about yourself but um Bacheleghish okay Bacheleghish close enough what is it Nermina Bacheleghich okay oh I will talk with you after this about how to correctly pronounce your last name I apologize she's from Montpelier she's a sole proprietor of a cut above the rest pet grooming in Berrytown she has an associate's degree from BTC vet technology and is a single parent to six-year-old kindergartener Layla she's first generation American whose parents came to this country from Bosnia and Chelsea Chelsea Boston is a single mom who lives in Graniteville with her roommate and six-year-old son Rory she's currently in her final year at Champlain College who will be graduating this May with a degree in post-secondary education program in addition to college classes Chelsea also works part-time at the Vermont Recovery Network as a program coordinator she's enrolled in the reach-up post-secondary education program and she's worked with a number of capstone programs and then finally Chrissy Cushing she's the assistant chef instructor at Capstone Community Action's Community Kitchen Academy she graduated from the Kitchen Academy and went on to work for CKA part-time while raising three children she's a survivor of domestic violence and uses her experience and perspective to help students discover their potential in the kitchen and beyond she lives with her family in Berry so um Rachel why don't you actually just introduce yourself right now since I've done that yeah I'm Rachel Kaplan I'm the employment and career specialist at Vermont for women and I'm part of our step into work program that helps women with employment barriers get back to work or start their career um and listening to the report and hearing people's shares this morning Tiff said that you know matching the data with the stories like I all of these statistics I could tell you a story about a woman that we've served over the past three and a half years that I've worked here um who qualifies what's going on so navigating in and out of the workforce because of caring for a child or an elderly parent negotiating your wage at the beginning of your career when you first started jobs so that you're not you know suffering from the cumulative effects of the wage gap um so all all of this is exhibited in the people that we serve up in Winooski so I want to just throw this out to the group what of the stats that you saw in the brief and um you know my talk resonated with you with your own experience and and how so I guess I'll start um so I know for me uh I feel a certain amount of privilege um so while I definitely have had my struggles I had the benefit of being a white female um who had the benefit of getting a very excellent education um in my youth uh which then prepared me to go back to school to pursue college and everything like that while I was an adult and I recognize uh very heavily that not every woman living in poverty has those opportunities and those benefits that I um kind of gave me a jump start on going back to school and creating a successful life for me and my child um I've also had the benefit of having reliable transportation and a good support network which is not something that everybody gets as many of you probably know from your work or even your personal experiences um so while I have certainly had to put in a lot of work to be where I am at and to rise out of poverty I definitely have had a much easier time of it than a woman of color a woman with a disability or even a woman that just didn't receive the level of education that I did when I was a child um so I think that there is still so much work to be done as you so beautifully put um and I think that it's important that we all recognize that we have our own privileges that have elevated us um above others who may not have had the same experiences well let me ask some more specific questions so our data shows that 47% of single female parent households with children under the age of 5 have incomes that are below the poverty level so the first time you became this is for you Nermina um the first time you became a mom and were enrolled in ReachUp you were one of those parents and now as a business owner with a child in school your circumstances have improved so what changes or opportunities occurred to help you transition into entrepreneurship and financial self-sufficiency um I think that Capstone had a big role in that um back when I was on ReachUp my daughter was about a year old and it was an unbelievably um difficult and challenging time for me and so I was able to take some of the financial empowerment classes with Capstone um they're basically called a money coach and they help you with stuff like building your credit or um opening up a savings account you know protecting yourself from identity theft all that kind of stuff that I didn't know about that didn't come naturally to me um and so with that knowledge I was able to basically start taking the steps that I needed to take to become employed again and work towards some of you know the goals that I had for myself and um luckily I was able to find employment and um you know over a course of five years I was able to continue to work with Capstone and um do their um do their IDA program and stuff like that which um helps me to the IDA program is the independent development account and it's a program that helps um people with small businesses to keep them running or get things that you need um for your business and one of the um sorry I'm a tiny bit nervous but um one of the things that was really important that I learned through Capstone was savings and um so the it's a match program so if I like save a thousand dollars they'll match it with two and so I can use that towards my business and I've been self-employed it's gonna be going on three years in March and I'm really proud of that and I think that Capstone really had a huge part in that. Yeah so definitely a combination of like having reach up and like you know all the support from the state and Capstone and all the resources that were literally out there was really what helped me to get my feet back on the ground and um you know to be who I am today so I'm really grateful thank you very much so um Chrissy uh you shared your experience as um a survivor of domestic violence so the research um there's been new research really on the financial impact of that um on um folks who have experienced um intimate partner violence 66% of survivors report that their abusers discouraged them from participating in educational and job training opportunities 73% report that their abusers stole paychecks, public benefits, drained their bank accounts and a startling 83% said their abusers affected their variability to work so given your experience in the work that you also do as an advocate um and support person in the community um what do you think about those statistics and you know do they resonate with your own experience um yeah so while I was a participant in the community kitchen academy um my partner everyday would discourage me from going to class and you know would tell me that he didn't understand why I was doing the program that he you know oh you don't need to do that you know it's not really going to help you any and it was just very much so encouraging me from taking the class um and so yeah and everyday it was a struggle um never had any money because he would always spend all our money on whatever he wanted um and would always try to be finding a way to get money and so very much so like it was hard because you know not having any money and having kids and worrying about how you're going to spy for your children um is difficult um I also have um seen it in the program and in our participants um one of which this girl was with an abusive partner um and through me sharing my experiences and how you know how much the class has changed my life I was actually able to help her leave her um abusive partner as well um so and she was always telling me how she never had any money either how her partner would always take everything from her um and so I I totally agree about the statistics about how it is to live with um an abusive partner thank you um Chelsea um as you were a single mom trying to get an education while trying to make ends meet what was your experience in the workplace and how you know in terms of balancing all the different responsibilities that you had did you did you encounter any of the challenges that you know we describe in the report um yeah absolutely um so previously to going back to school I was stuck in service jobs um predominantly fast food work um because it was the only thing that could really match my hours um like Chrissy I was in a domestic abuse situation with my child's father um until he was one uh and when I left my child's father I actually moved back to Vermont um so Capstone was actually the organization that pointed me in the direction of VSAC which unfortunately I did not qualify for for my first year of college um but when I was able to qualify for that after I had reached Vermont citizenship it was just so helpful um and in the in between things were definitely very rough um I think that anybody starting over anywhere uh that's a tough situation but especially when you are kind of being catapulted from having even though you know support from a domestic violence situation is not as awesome as a more healthy situation there's still a level of support there and so cutting off that support of the partner and then moving to a place where um you're not very familiar uh is definitely challenging and Capstone was really very integral in my ability to make it work I mean I can honestly say I still access the food pantry at Capstone because right now with my college classes and being a single parent I can't take on extra work hours when things get tough um so I'm kind of stuck at part time and I'm lucky that I work a job that is very flexible in the hours um but as things are right now if I took on any more workload there would have to be some sort of get either my homework wouldn't be getting done um or my child wouldn't be seeing me or you know um so having Capstone there as a level of support to help me like she said to help me uh figure out the finances of a dilapidated romantic relationship which is tricky um to provide food when food was scarce um and to just generally be people that I could talk to when I really needed some support it's just been amazing um Capstone is an incredible organization with so many different ways to support people um and I'm actually currently in the same savings program that you were talking about um working on saving for a home um so hopefully after graduation I will go full time at my job and the idea will help me buy a home and stability will finally be achieved so yeah thank you yeah so another program provider in the state um uh is Vermont Works for Women who works with women across um a lot of different backgrounds and so why tell us a little bit about what resonated for you sure I'm I want to take a minute to sort of jump on a couple um themes that have come up in the last couple minutes um one of one of the struggles that I see a lot of the women that I serve um struggle with is um the lack of flexibility around employment and like really being limited in the jobs that they're able to take because of being single parents and having to do drop off and pick up um being able uh needing the flexibility to stay home with a sick kid um and those sorts of things and so that's something that um myself and my organization really try to work with coaching women on is how to navigate those conversations with employers and how to advocate for themselves so that they are able to get that flexibility that's really essential in their um in their efforts to get back to work um also um in terms of domestic violence um that is certainly something that we um work with women on who have had to repeatedly leave jobs because of an abuser um who have had to be located to this area um and have very few work references from their um previous um where they lived previously um abusers who have gone to their workplaces and um you know made threats and then they lose that job and so that is certainly um that's sort of a not very well known um thing that happens in our communities um that is really detrimental to women's economic stability um I also want to touch on something um that we were saying about that you've been working with the Capsulemen for five years and and the the importance of these ongoing supports that it's not sort of a quick fix um you know let's do a three month program and you're good to go it's ongoing supports um that are essential to helping people um you know build um themselves out of poverty um and and um you were saying Chelsea that the you know the supports that you got um and um you know the you know my favorite stories that I have working with participants are um just the really little things that I encourage women to do um like applying for a job if they're not even if they don't meet all the qualifications um you know so someone you know didn't have a bachelor's degree there was this job that sounded perfect for her and she's like well I can't apply yes you can apply you know go for it and then I can't do that because it's 40 hours a week I have to work 35 because I have a special needs child who requires these appointments once a week and so I can't do that job well yes you can do that job ask them if they would be willing to take you for 35 hours a week and you know by golly they were and so um the the little supports that we can offer on an ongoing basis really do make a big difference um in in helping women achieve this economic independence um so I think that's really the sort of um longevity for it is really um important to remember yeah thank you I want to make sure that we have um time for uh huh alright well okay alright um so I you know I well I'd like to open it up because I'm sure you have questions um for the panel is that okay Allie you're kind of the running running this show so okay okay okay um questions for the audience um about experiences um uh our panelists or about the data that appears in the you know executive summary that you have or that I mentioned here calm on okay yes so I'll start out explaining with the community kitchen academy um is it's a work ready NIST program that capstone offers it helps people to gain the necessary skills to get a job in the culinary industry um we train them on how to do simple things like you know make even just like the sauces and how to make a stock and how to just do all the first basic simple things that you need to know to cook um and we also do job readiness and we also get them a resume and we help them with interviewing skills um they also take some classes at C vape to help them with computer skills um it and then they take their manager serve safe exam um if they don't pass that we give them their food handlers um so we truly try to make sure they leave our program with having a serve safe certificate um they also take their Vermont liquor license um and if they pass their manager serve safe and the Vermont liquor license and do all the papers and all the tests that we require of them they actually graduate the course with nine college credits for CCV um when I graduated it I actually managed to get the nine college credits for CCV which is great um I before capstone I stepped into my life I don't think that I would have ever managed to get any college credits um capstone just doesn't really amazing work um they have helped me be able to you know keep a job for the last three and a half years um before that I was only keeping a job maybe three months at a time um and part of that is they have given me so much confidence and myself and the fact that I am good enough to have a job and that I did deserve better than what I had before um and a year and a half after taking the job at capstone I actually wound up leaving my abusive ex and I now am able to have a car loan that I would never have thought before that I could have actually have gotten because of the situation that I was in before um they just help out with so much I have so many of my graduates come to me and tell me that they don't know where they would be without the program um and it's just nice to be able to be a part of what capstone um has to offer and be an alumni of one of their programs oh um our job placement right so nicely done our job placement right right um after they get out of the program is first off when they get out of the program we have a over 90 percent job placement right um our retention which is after three months of keeping the job is in the 80s percent of our graduates keep the job for at least three months so it is amazing and it's great and I have to say this that our class right now our class right now six out of eight of our students are actually women which is amazing and most of our classes most of our classes are mostly women which is amazing because it's just great getting women ready to work is amazing I'd be interested in your perspectives on you kind of have a captive audience here and there are a lot of people who not just policy makers but people who run organizations um that like VZAC um uh who are in the audience and I'm just wondering what what would make the biggest difference for um would have made you know a big difference for you what would you sorry I am a little tired so the I guess my question is where do you think there's leverage what would you want to say do this and it will make the kind of change that Capstone was able to make for each of you so I think the big one in my opinion both personally and professionally um so prior to my position at the Vermont Recovery Network I worked at the Good Samaritan Haven here in Barrie for um about three years and uh for me it's transportation um so I am lucky that I have had a car so I could drive to my classes in Montpelier at CCV um I'm lucky that I have a car and can drive to Burlington to my classes at Champlain College which has a single parents program um and the single parents program there pays your tuition in full if you have at least 50% custody and are meeting certain income levels um but if I didn't have transportation I wouldn't have been able to take advantage of those opportunities that are so important for not only the advancement of education but by extension the advancement of employment um so I definitely think expanding our transportation system would be beneficial um to so many people in our state I think that right now the transportation systems we have in place are limited in their hours um and I think that a lot of people who are in these more low income positions need transportation that's a little bit more accessible especially in rural areas as well as um with more accessible times um because I think one thing that we've kind of explored here is that so many of these positions that people are in low income are more evening hours weekend hours things like that um so I think that that would be really really really critical I think I think that it's really um important to continue to fund places like capstone um as I was talking about the um financial empowerment classes that I was um taking I was I think about how that kind of knowledge doesn't come naturally to me and so I would love to see more people being able to take advantage of the courses that they have to offer and so I think with more funding they would be able to have more financial coaches and stuff because those are really you know the building blocks to helping people um budget and keep employment and really know how to do that kind of stuff Thank you Yeah Rachel do you want to say something um I would I would second both of those for sure transportation and funding for nonprofits are the nonprofits that we have around Vermont who are doing this work are amazing um and and many of us like capstone and Vermont works for women have been around a long time doing this work um I would I would also add to that more funding for child care um paying our child care workers better um and this legislative season I'm very excited about um the paid family leave um as well as raising the minimum wage um those are two pieces of legislation those are two pieces of legislation that could really make a huge difference for particularly our women living in poverty in the state um I would also um you know two additional you know please would be um for employers to be more aware of the barriers that um women and single parents have to entering the workforce and and being more open and um aware of flexible scheduling um because that that just it really is a huge barrier to the women I'm working with and helping them find employment um and then um the second thing is to um having our funders um tie their funding to training programs that aren't necessarily um come with a credential but still offer um you know critical support um to two people living in poverty um so even though it might not have a serve safe um certification um there is great work done being around the state that isn't tied to a credential and so I'd love to see more funding for programs um like that. Thank you. Yes. Uh huh. Uh huh. Oh yeah. Oh it totally makes sense. Yeah. Well and and for most of the women in the state have children it's really not an option. I mean 70% is let's grow kids has said 70% of um children uh 5 and under have all available parents in the workforce and we I think that it practically speaking um it it is a huge financial uh takes a huge financial toll for a parent to leave the workforce um that said um other countries do a lot of different things um and there are many many examples of um ways in which we can enable both uh both parents um uh families to actually take leave um and so paid leave or leave that is um uh government sponsored I mean I I I don't um well I'm not a policy expert in that field but there's so much that has been written about all the options that exist um and the examples of people who are doing things differently I'd like to add just a couple things about that so um certainly helping women navigate exiting the workforce and then coming back is something that we do a lot of and so um coaching women women on how to do that in a way that they can sort of keep their toes in you know of like doing a little bit of volunteer work doing like a you know even minimal part time work while they're staying home to keep their you know skills fresh their resume fresh so when they go to apply to a job in one year two years three years or however long that they have recent experience um and are still you know involved in the community involved in the issues um but then I also think there's some awareness that needs to be built among employers around okay there's this person who has exited the workforce and it's coming back like let's let's respect that gap in employment let's understand that they were doing something essential for themselves and their families and now they're back and they're ready to go and they are less smart or less capable in the years that they were away and so I think there's a shift and awareness that needs to be built there and if there's a job that opens up um while somebody is on maternity leave um you don't just automatically write them off as not interested um and several employers have have um talked about the mistakes they've made in making that assumption um and not having the conversation when a job did come up that might um very well um be filled by somebody who's on leave I think um I think we'll probably open this up to conversation we have about 10 or so more minutes um you can feel free to ask any more questions to our panelists or just share inspirations from the day before doing that I do want to see do any of the panelists want to make sort of their final comment of anything is there anything that you didn't get to share that you might have wanted to and you have a mic there that we think is going to work I guess I want to say a little bit about the topic we were just talking about with that you brought up about you know children and want to be with them I went back to school when my child was one um and I can honestly say uh between classes I worked full time for two years during that time period homework um I can honestly say that every single semester I debate with myself about whether it's worth it to go back to school right now um because kids and I might tear up a little bit because kids when they're that young they don't understand right that you have to write this paper or you fail they don't understand that I'm going to school so that we can have a better life right and especially being somebody who's pursuing a degree in social work and child development being a huge chunk of that you are going to school and being taught these are the most formative years at the same time as you're struggling through them and not seeing your kid as much as you would like to and I actually personally ended up taking a step back from full-time employment because I realized I was barely seeing my child um and it really didn't sit well with me um but it's it's definitely a struggle to make that choice and I think that any single parent um especially struggles to make that choice is this what's best for my kids what do I do with the fact that I'm gone so much during those formative years so I definitely cannot stress enough that paid leave is so important um even a lot of companies or organizations in America that have leave it's not paid which is a huge problem um I know personally at four weeks old I was back to work um I did not even take six um because I was the only person working in our situation and it had to be done um so while that biological need is definitely there and it doesn't get any less there like every year I go back to school it's there a little more almost um it's it's definitely heartbreaking and it's why these changes are so important um and why we really need to be doing the work that we're doing to make them um so when I first got the job at Capstone I found out a month later that I was actually pregnant with my third child while I was working at Capstone and I have to say Capstone is an amazing organization I was able to have taken three months off to be able to care for my child after I gave birth and then they were so amazing because my boss knew that I was breastfeeding and my boss had said to me you know whenever you have to go pump don't worry about it you know just go pump and so Capstone is just amazing with the fact that they do give the opportunity for you to take three months off and I could have taken longer than three months off if I had wanted to um but for my family you know I had I only had so many paid so much paid time off that I could take in so many hours that I could take and you know I was the sole provider for my family at that point in time so after three months I had to go back into work but it was amazing knowing that any time that I had to leave to go pump that I could and Capstone is just very supportive of families and women who have children and want to still provide for their children you know with even just the simple thing of knowing that any time I needed to do the simple act of pumping so I could feed my son it was there um and after so all the support that I've received from Capstone um I work on the weekends during the summer I work in the at the Waterbury flea market they have a little Snack Shack there and I actually am managing the little Snack Shack that they have there I managed it all last summer and I will be able to manage it again this summer and it's just amazing because I went from you know not really making ends meet now to being able to you know fully provide for my family and not worry about how am I going to pay for this and this while this right now this bill is passed due so I'll pay this one and then I'll wait to pay this one I don't have to worry about situations like that anymore and it's just nice to know that you know Capstone has been a very big provider of that and they've given me so much confidence in everything that I am able to do so it's just amazing Capstone is absolutely amazing program and you are amazing by the way um Nermina I was I'm Collin by the way I was connecting to your story when you mentioned having a little kid and just trying to get through the day and probably not thinking much about the future or what you want your life to look like and I'm wondering if that has changed for you now and if you have you know something you want to do in the future or something that you're hopeful about is that us? yeah it was I don't know why I did that something you want to do in the future or something that you're hopeful about for any of you I think that I would like to continue doing dog grooming um life is certainly easier now since I am self-employed and I am able to stay home if my kid is sick or if I don't have child care and I wish that other women were able to do that and so I'm glad that we're all here and I appreciate everyone um for being here I just think it's so important all the topics that we've been talking about um I think like I said I definitely see myself continuing to do dog grooming five years from now I'd like to get a larger space at some point maybe with another groomer um and a and um you know I would really love to at some point be a homeowner and I know that when I'm ready to take those steps that capstone will continue to support me in a non-judgmental um type of environment and so that's one thing that I've always appreciated about them and um yeah I'm just going to keep like you know saving and working and um working towards more goals and um I think capstone will definitely play a big part in that and so that's where I see myself in five years or so I just want to say as a director of capstone thank you for mentioning capstone so often but really let's recognize it as those super women up there who are changing the story for their lives so my name is Andy Dora Crane I work with Planned Parenthood here in the very community and it's lovely to have this be my first experience with not only exploring concepts laid out by Vermont Women's Fun, Vermont Works for Women and I've been thinking a lot about this name of this event which has changed the story and if you're going to change the story you need to constantly be looking several steps ahead at what you really want this to look like and I happen to be somebody of great privilege that had a lot of financial education in my life and was the byproduct of a woman who's a second-wave feminist and made the scary decision to take two and a half years off of my career which is a healthcare provider's questionable decision because you're considered stale at two plus and can you go back in I don't know where the hole is that all that information leaks out of but it's a reality so you know I took advantage of capstone programs during that time and it was extremely helpful one of the things I would challenge all of us as we look ahead and as we are attempting to change this story is if I'm a non-female identified person or if I'm a non-woman identified person where are my organizations that are helping me with this? This is fantastic for a big majority of people but we do have people that don't identify as such who have disproportionately high rates of domestic violence and potentially other social determinants that put them not in a privileged place to be able to close this wage gap and as we see youth that are more and more embracing of these non-binary identity states or just a gender identity spectrum how are we partnering with those folks and how can we all strive together to really what ends up being reducing a privilege of male identity to be at the top so to name that in reference to changing the story well indeed I mean your call in part is for data right which I mean the census you've got two choices when you're answering those questions and so while there are some national organizations that have produced data that we've included in our report on members of the LGBTQIA community there's not enough at all so that's work for somebody else out there and somebody's got to fund it I don't have my watch on and I just want to know well what about Carrie all right are there other questions yeah hi I'm Jen Wood with the Green Mountain Transit and I work with rural areas so I appreciated the comments about transportation but I have to brag for a moment that my main claim to fame is that the honorable Tiff was the efficient at my wedding so anyway my question is there's many things that you know that have been talked about that we can do but I'm curious from each of the women up there if you could give us one you know call to action when we leave here today what would be you know the one prominent thing to do to kind of support all these issues that we care about I mean I think one thing that's really important is keeping the conversation going I don't know how many of you were at the store event that capstone put on earlier this year but that was another great forum for having discussions like these and kind of assessing the needs in our communities and also generating some creative solutions I think that unfortunately depending on the level of stigma surrounding certain conflicts we aren't having enough conversations about it I don't know if that's because of complacency or just the feeling that what good can we possibly do but I think that together we are so much stronger and together we do have so many creative solutions that we could discuss and possibly implement and I think we're really benefiting from living in a place that has as a state that really is a big drive towards social, economic all these different types of justices that are so important so I think that capstone is doing a fantastic job of keeping that conversation going and giving people a forum to have those discussions and to generate those solutions I think you covered it, thank you I would say yes continue like take what today and share it with the people that you know and then also write to your legislators about these two important pieces of legislation that are coming up this year because they really will make a big difference one final question alright hi I'm Tom Stevens and I'm the chair of the general housing and military affairs committee which you might ask well what does that have to do with paid family leave but these bills get written in our committee and I'm going to challenge you to go one step further to not write to your legislators but to call them back when I first got involved politically in Vermont Howard Dean was running for president and one of the things that stood in my mind was and he may have been quoting someone else I don't really know but he said you know what if you get out and vote you get a C in civics and that's really powerful because we keep saying you have to vote you have the right to vote and you should you need to vote and you get a C but on these two issues in particular I've been working on these issues in different ways for the last 12 years first with paid sick days now with paid family leave and there's a bill that's now sitting in the house um Jill Kroinski left my boss left so I can be a little bit more open here um and the bill that came over from the senate and is sitting in the house right now we're going to decide how we're going to handle it and it's not as good a bill as it was when it left the house but it's a bill that the senate it's far more generous than the senate has ever passed before in their existence there's many of us who don't believe that it's strong enough but even the bill that we pass if we pass it as strong as what we passed out of committee it's still nowhere near as strong as Lithuania or Bulgaria so we're talking about you know bills that are beginnings in Vermont and in the United States so what I'm asking you to do is to get a little bit more activated there's so much more power in this room than just talking about these issues you know hearing about people's experiences in the face of the difficulties that we face and that women face and women of poverty face in this state every single day there are people in the state house like this is a broad part this is the base of the pyramid here you know by the time you get to the governor who's the tip of the pyramid it gets harder and harder and harder to pass the bill that we think is fair and is equitable and that gets to the points that we're talking what we spent this morning talking about which is trying to if not eradicating poverty for a great number of people in the state then at least ameliorating it and making life a little bit easier by having more compassion in the policies that we pass in order to make their lives easier you shouldn't have to choose whether you're going back to work in four weeks or 12 weeks or 16 weeks or whatever it is it shouldn't be that difficult but it is so right now the bill that's in the house is the bill that we're going to start with the senate isn't very keen on negotiating to be more generous than it is so maybe you need to call me or maybe you need to call your senators and tell them that this is an issue somehow over time minimum wage and paid family leave which are women dominant issues and this is what we heard today that this affects women at home and in the workplace far more than it does men and somehow it gets degendered in order to get it passed because men have to feel it's okay to vote for it and I'm just sorry I just got back from vacation so I'm a little freer with perhaps what I might be saying in January I might be a little bit more politic about it but you have the power and the power is in your voices to tell this story and to make the people who are making the decisions believe you when you say it's going to make a difference because by the time it gets to the top and it gets degendered and it gets into numbers then people start making decisions that are weaker and less sure of themselves and less compassionate so call us leave messages for us and really don't stop until we pass a bill that gets these policies put forward in the state of Vermont it's paid filling well paid filling I believe is H107 and minimum wage is a senate bill I think it's S54 but they're at the end of their legislative the negotiations will start on January 7 about what we're going to put forward and see if the governor will veto them and if he does then we have to have the votes to override the veto and then the work begins again and again and again to make the bill even better as time goes on thank you no I don't have the sergeant at arms number 828 I should know it's 6000 anyway all of those phone calls will be really helpful I think it's a great closer Tom I think it's time for your final words and Carrie's let's just give a round of applause for the panelists thank you everybody that was really fantastic I wish we had a lot more time to take your questions and hear from our panelists can we just thank the panelists and all of you for your participation I want to give a special thanks to Capstone for partnering with Change the Story on this we've heard so much about their amazing programs and their work to make this event possible as well as to put into action some of the work that we know needs to be done so thank you to Capstone and to the partner organizations of Change the Story Vermont Commission on Women you can clap for me if you want and Vermont Works for Women is fun and so just as a follow up to the last little bit of our discussion part of what I've been tasked with here is a little bit of a call to action for you all and we have heard a lot about what can we do what can be done but I want to appeal to a few certain groups in here so we have legislators, policy makers decision makers at all levels and I want you to think about when you read this report think about the data that you use in your work the data that you need in your work and to use what we've given to you but also to ask for a lot more so when you're thinking about how your programs will run about how you're going to be spending state money think about who's benefiting from that who do we want to benefit from that and ask questions about gender but also about race about disability and make sure that the people that you want to be serving are actually the ones that you are and so that's my plea to those of you with that kind of a power many of you are employers or you have some responsibility in workplaces if workplaces can think about ways to keep women at work we've heard a lot about that today also to keep parents in general because a big part of why the women are having a hard time staying at work or putting in the time that they may want to is because they are unduly burdened with family responsibilities it is way out of proportion the amount of time that women spend taking care of family taking care of home all of these things outside of their paying work compared to men and so there are things that workplaces can do to try to strengthen that out a little bit paid family leave is one we've heard a lot about paid family leave that's available to both parents that is not just available to both parents but that is structured in a way that allows parents to take it that allows and encourages fathers to take just as much parental leave as mothers could go a long way to kind of redistributing that burden a little bit so that it may still be different difficult to be a parent and to hold down a full-time job but it shouldn't be more difficult to be a mother than it is to be a father and then finally to everybody else in this room think about your own biases think about what the assumptions that we have think about the messages that we're passing on to the young people that we know and think about consciously countering some of those so talking to the young women that you know about the various kinds of options that they may have educationally career wise just choices that they make in their own families as well as to the young men that you know so that we are already I see this all the time seeing a great shift in young people's ideas about who's supposed to take care of the family and who's supposed to do the work and in spite of some of the discouraging statistics that we see in the report those attitudes are slowly changing and so we all can do our part to help continue in that direction so it's just a few little things for you to do not much not much the report gives you more specific recommendations I thank you all for coming and I look forward to not having to issue reports like this again in the future