 So ladies and gentlemen let me Let me welcome you to the United States Institute of Peace My name is Bill Taylor. I'm the executive vice president here at the Institute of Peace and It is a great honor for us to have the Minister of Defense of Tunisia here with us today Together with his delegation Whom you have seen as they came in but also we have Ambassador Goyi is here With him and Ambassador Brahm our ambassador in Tunis. So it's a it's a great delegation with the The reason there are the obvious reasons of our military People in uniform is because he's the Minister of Defense. Okay, but also He has just gotten back Just come to Washington from Cheyenne, Wyoming Cheyenne, Wyoming, is that right? where there is a partnership between Tunisia and the United States and the the National Guard and the and the Tunisian Army as this partnership that is a great opportunity for both sides It's a great opportunity for the Americans to understand a part of the world It's a great opportunity for the Tunisian military to get connected with and partner With the US military. So this is a Great opportunity. Is this okay? This is working. It's good This will be on the record And Fitz was is gonna take pictures of you. So it's okay. We also have people probably streaming in work. We're recording this So this will be on the record The Institute of Peace has a long relationship with Tunisia We had I was mentioning to the minister and reminding the ambassador that we had the president of Tunisia here in 2015 When president Assepsi spoke in our some of you were may have been here for for for that Very dynamic speech. So it was Very memorable for us We also had the prime minister here. Prime minister Cheyenne was here in 2017 This has been a great opportunity for us We've had the ambassador here on many occasions It's been our honor to have ambassador Goya here and he returns the favor and we've been to his embassy and residents on on on multiple occasions The u.s. Tunisia relationship Goes back a long time 1797 When the Treaty of Peace and Friendship was uh was signed and and through various uh decades and centuries We've maintained this Tunisia was one of the first countries to recognize the independent united states Back in that century And the united states in return was the first great power to recognize Tunisian independence in 1956 The depth and breadth of the u.s. Tunisian relationship that that i've described Has continued to grow uh over over the over the years And we were very pleased that Tunisia joined the community of democratic states in in 2014 and those in that historic time that everybody in this room recalls Minister um you have a difficult job You have uh A difficult neighborhood I'm glad we have the map here just to remind us all of the of the neighborhood that Tunisia finds itself And algeria and libya being immediate neighbors and we know what's going on in in those those two countries I for this crowd don't need to go through the the upheavals in both algeria and libya and minister i'm sure you will have something to say about Uh the effect of that of that unrest and and upheavals and conflict um on on tunisia So that we will look forward to uh to those commerce The The of course libyan civil war we've we've talked about as well united states germany and other nations have worked very closely With the government tunisia to secure the borders Um But uh again, that's that's going to be a challenge and that's a challenge that the minister and his as military team Uh is responsible for and will probably give us some good discussion of In in spite of um all of these challenges tunisia has maintained its approach to a democratic form of government It's got challenges got economic challenges um The united states and europe Should be supportive of the tunisians as they address those challenges We ought to be supportive on the military side have already described some of the partnerships that That the united states and tunisia have but also on the economic side and on the diplomatic side and on the political side This kind of support we should provide uh to tunisia tunisia as a non the major non nato military ally um is is a great is is not Common in that world. I mean, we don't have many allies really do good allies in this part of the world But so tunisia is is an ally which we greatly appreciate and we should support that ally We should provide that that kind of support Um minister you're on the front lines. Um, we look forward to your comments After uh your comments, uh, my colleague, uh, Mike gaffey, um and tom hill will Moderate a conversation. Look forward to having conversations and discussions questions. Um, uh about this And I think we can if we need these channel two will be english and channel three will be french And minister with that. Let me offer you the floor. Thank you ambassador bill taylor executive vice president Of us ip Your excellency the ambassador of the united states in tunisia His excellency the tunisian ambassador to the united states ladies and gentlemen At the outset, I would like to thank the us institute of peace For organizing this event which once again is a testament To the deep interest that the united states places in tunisia It is an honor for me To have this opportunity to speak before such a distinguished audience My remarks Will focus on four major areas I'll try to make sure that this Is not a very long speech so that we have time to have a rich discussion And so that you have the opportunity to ask questions later on First I will Discuss our view of our region's security situation Next i'll speak about the role that tunisia plays within the region As was so well said by the ambassador a moment ago Then I will speak about the relationship between the us and tunisia I could talk about that for two Two hours rather But I and it would still not be enough So at this time I will just focus on the main dates and main phases of that relationship I will conclude by sharing the challenges that tunisia Continues to face as you will see We have made a great deal of progress After the revolution which began in 2011 but unfortunately there is still a lot of work to be done I would like to first underscore the support that we have always received From our american friends and we want this support to continue for the security and stability of tunisia But also This success in tunisia is fundamental for the entire region I'll start with the regional security situation As you know The situation in north africa generally speaking and in the sahel is still a fragile because there are many issues and threats What are the main threats? The first of course is ongoing instability in libya Unfortunately as you all know The situation continues to get worse day after day Which has direct repercussions on all neighboring countries, especially on tunisia The second threat Has to do with the critical situation in mali and in the sahel In general This area Is a high-risk area because It could become a haven eventually for terrorists who Flee other countries Terrorist activities are also spreading throughout the region And this last point is particularly important because it is directly related To the previous point. We see ongoing trafficking of drugs weapons Human trafficking and this is connected to terrorism, which as I said is connected to Trafficking in drugs and weapons What is the security situation in tunisia specifically? One important point to mention Is that there has been a significant improvement Over the past three years with regard to the security situation in tunisia, but as I said before This progress is the result of close collaboration With our brother countries, especially the us Which is one of which is our strategic partner The second point about the situation Is that we are continuing the fight against terrorism. We've had several successes in this area Terrorist leaders have been eliminated For some terrorist groups. We have seen that they have fewer resources And because of that They Are less strong and again, as I mentioned, there's a close relationship between drug trafficking And terrorist acts that are committed With support of the us in germany We have been able to set up an electronic surveillance system In order to monitor one part of the border with libya We are currently setting this up. We completed the first phase recently And that first phase is up and running This system was inaugurated on april 11th of this year Very recently His excellency the ambassador of the united states of america and tunisia was president was present rather As well as the german ambassador to tunisia because germany also Helped set up part of this electronic surveillance system To summarize that We can say that terrorists are contained. They're feeling the pressure But there are two main groups that are still around And they are still active in some of the mountainous areas along the border with algeria Which is in the northwestern part of tunisia Moving on to the security situation in algeria and the region as a whole As you know the situation in algeria Also involves a terrorist presence in the eastern part of algeria along the border with tunisia And there are significant connections between terrorist groups on both sides of that border I'm not sure if you're familiar if you know the famous cheese grouillard cheese Well the border between tunisia and algeria is very much like that cheese once Terrorists are chased out of one area. They go across the border to the other side And vice versa We have excellent relations with Our friends and brothers in algeria Specifically with regard to fighting terrorism along that border in case you had questions about that We are also seeing the beginnings of a political crisis in algeria But here again If you ask questions about it later, I'll be able to give you more details But I can already tell you that this is an internal political crisis And I don't think there will be significant repercussions On the security of the region as a whole. It is really confined internal domestic The army Is highly regarded by the algerian population And will play a very important role In managing this crisis And ensuring that there is a transition after the boutiflica regime I should also point out here that there is a possibility For terrorist groups to take advantage of this precarious situation And current tensions to carry out attacks in order to Prove themselves and to discredit those in power The third point I wanted to address Has to do with the situation in libya. That is a completely different situation. It's very complex. It's getting worse day by day Most of the parties involved are divided based either on ideological convictions or based on tribal affiliations Alliances are formed Between these groups, but they're based on opportunistic alliances and not long-term objectives We also see ongoing violence to varying degrees in various regions of the country Daesh has been weakened Thanks to The libyan army led by Haftar However, the threats and risks have not completely disappeared As long as some of the main players try to Impose themselves and be dominant violence Will continue in the country and it will affect all neighboring countries and tunisia in particular The major challenges in libya are one unifying security and military forces Two, bringing back order. Three, combating terrorism And four, creating mutual trust amongst all stakeholders That mutual trust is very far from being achieved Especially because some Individuals advocate a political solution whereas others only see a military solution, but I want to stress here I would like to stress a fundamental point That is aggravating the situation in libya There is external interference in libya and efforts That create discord As individuals attempt to Address the internal conflict in libya. We'll come back to that later Moving on to the situation in the sahel We see poor governance socio-economic issues organized crime and terrorism and they are all interconnected Terrorist threats are also spreading there. Terrorists are using ethnic divisions and especially the weakness of the state Especially in certain areas of mali To continue to expand and spread The region could become a magnet for terrorists As I said because authorities are weak to conclude The situation in our region is unstable It is critical very critical, I would even say And we are facing hybrid threats Where we see terrorist groups Networks of traffickers armed militias And their ideological and ethnic divisions that make the situation even more complicated We believe that it is essential that we maintain and enhance Cooperation between tunisia and other countries in the region And the united states as well in order to bring back stability and security throughout the region And in tunisia That was the first part of my presentation The second part has to do with the regional context and the role that tunisia plays in that particular context Tunisia due to its history and its geographic position Has always had a unique position And it is because that determines how it acts on the regional scene the international scene And that's what our foreign policy is based on ever since independence Tunisia is a country of North Africa It is also an Arab country, an African country It is a Mediterranean country And it is also a player on the international stage Because it is at the crossroads Of many civilizations It has been a crossroads for many centuries Because tunisia has always played a strategic role within the larger euro-mediterranean region In addition to these geopolitical factors tunisia is active on the regional and international stage Since its independence it has promoted a set of principles That reflect its commitment to international law and peace We have always privileged dialogue negotiation and peaceful means For resolving conflict in various countries Indeed tunisia has always developed international relations on the basis of mutual respect And based on the principle of non-interference in the domestic affairs of other countries At the same time it spares no effort to support all efforts for peace, security, stability and human rights This has been the case especially since 2011 For tunisia a major goal has always been to develop and diversify its relations And to strengthen its cooperation in various organizations that it is part of And in various areas of mutual interest We have worked to empower various entities within the union of the arab maghreb Which is very important for political and economic integration of countries in north africa There are five countries involved here and we work with other regional entities Specifically the european union and the african union Tunisia has always worked to support solidarity between arab countries to promote Joint policies and economic efforts and that is why We hosted the 30th session of the council the leave of arab states in tunis This was from march 26 to 31st of this year Additionally the european union is a strategic partner We have historic political economic social and cultural ties that are deep With the eu and tunisia wants to further develop These partnerships with the eu in order to be a privileged partner For them because it is in the Mediterranean Tunisia has supported the euro-mediterranean process in various areas political economic technological social and cultural And it wishes to strengthen this partnership and have greater solidarity amongst countries On either side of the Mediterranean Additionally, tunisia has always worked to have stronger relations with african countries in various areas. However This is still modest despite the efforts that have been made tunisia has Also supported relations with european countries that are not members of the eu as well as Countries in the americas and asia in order to establish political and economic relations of mutual interest To conclude this section, we believe that tunisia has been able to strike a political and strategic Balance amongst all of these geopolitical entities When we saw the beginnings of the revolution in january of 2011 and everything that followed That is the democratic transition All of this means that tunisia has a new regional role to play. We are a model of a nascent democracy That is not degenerated into violence and instead we are moving slowly but surely Towards the rule of law where justice dignity and freedom are our guiding principles With regard to our international relations Tunisia has a special relationship with the united states. This is a strategic partnership It is based on a long history of understanding and trust between our two countries Which leads me to address my next point and I will discuss a few aspects of the relationship between tunisia and the us I would like to express how pleased we are With what we have achieved it is a reflection of The willingness and resolve of both of our countries to implement the values of peace security stability democracy and well-being for two friendly peoples indeed as you know Relations between tunisia and the us go back to the 18th century As was mentioned By the ambassador just a few moments ago This was the signature of the initial bilateral agreement on friendship commerce and navigation 27 august 17 97 tunisia will always promote the position of the united states Or recognize what the us has done rather because it was the first major power to recognize our sovereignty on may 17 1956 after we achieved independence Which was no easy feat considering that we were coming out of the colonial period throughout history relations between tunisia and the us Have been marked by this long-standing friendship and partnership And cooperation based on trust and mutual respect I myself Was a child of the independence and I was about six years old When we achieved independence and I know what the us has done ever since Borgieba was in power when it comes to schools health centers addressing the problems of malnutrition that existed in the country at that time I will never forget that support That we received when we were going through that period of independence because the socioeconomic situation was extremely Difficult after the colonial era era Our relationship is governed by a number of agreements that cover areas like the economy security culture protection and investment trade and double taxation I would like to remind everyone here of a few major phases that have that are a reflection of The continuous support the us has offered to tunisia since the revolution of 2011 The us recognize the tunisian revolution and the elections of the national constituent assembly in 2011 As well as the legislative and presidential elections that took place in 2014 these elections took place In line with democratic standards of pluralism and Transparency despite the fact that the socio economic situation was very difficult at that time on march 15 2015 the us administration supported tunisia during the conference on investment and entrepreneurship in north africa, which was Launched by the minis the us secretary of state and the american chamber of commerce in tunis on may 21st 2015 the us administration declared that tunisia Is now a major non nato ally there was also a memorandum memorandum of understanding that was signed codifying the strategic relationship Between the us and tunisia with regard to defense so once again i stress this special relationship Between our two countries and i pay tribute to senator john mccain I had the pleasure of meeting him on three occasions Going back to the beginning of the revolution when i first became minister of defense and this is my second time being minister of defense The first time it was from 2011 to 2013 about two and a half years I left and then i came back and i've been minister of defense for about 19 months now I had the pleasure of meeting senator mccain in 2011 2012 and 2013 and on each of those occasions He reassured me because we were going through such a difficult time and he said That the us would always be by our side and that has always been the case despite The support that we've gotten from our friends and specifically The u.s. The country is still facing major challenges What are those challenges? There are four kinds of challenges political security regional and economic and social politically despite a difficult economic situation and Tension in the region especially because of the libyan uh Crisis we can say that we are succeeding in our transition Slowly but surely Once the new constitution adopted Tunisia held presidential and legislative elections democratically according to international standards and in 2018 we had municipal elections and the results brought about Decentralization which is an element of participatory democracy, but we're going to be setting up Some regional councils We will be Holding legislative and presidential elections at the end of the first term and these elections would take place at the Last trimester of 2019 in about the three five months And which will represent a new political challenge That tunisia has to face The second Challenges are of a security nature in the region Tunisia faces terrorism challenges Illegal immigration Insubility trafficking and all these challenges need material and human resources The war that we have declared against terrorism a war that Tunisia is waging against terrorism After the 2015 attacks has Taken a new turn especially after the attack against ben garland This is a border city with libya and the idea was to proclaim A province of Daesh in Tunisia. We won this battle And this was the first defeat of Daesh on Tunisian soil and this became an example for Different cities that were concerned with terrorism And every year we celebrate the victory And this shows our resilience and our invulnerability against the macavelan project of Daesh in this region And and this because of the valiant and patriotic reaction of our armed forces our security forces and with the unwavering support of the local Communities these events and other events That terrorism is becoming international and requires a global multi-dimensional approach and I think sincerely that the security solution should be the last Solution there are other solutions before We get to the security solution Thirdly regional challenges the libian Situation all the regional and international actors have to come up with solutions That are sustainable for this country that is going through a major crisis And tunisia is advocating all kinds of initiatives from the international community to solve the conflict among the parties and Tunisia Is committed to help libyans find a political solution a comprehensive solution A peaceful solution without excluding any parties Fourth challenge economic and social challenges tunisia knows that Democratic transition needs an economic transition which would allow People to gain their dignity and their welfare And it's on this challenge that all the efforts are focused right now So we need economic growth to come back and this will have an impact on unemployment Of the youth especially unemployment among those who have university Degrees and we want decent jobs for qualified labor force Mr senator ladies and gentlemen in conclusion And before we get into the discussion Around this table Let me thank once again the u.s. Institute of peace for organizing this panel And i'm very pleased and honored to be among you I just wanted to give you a few highlights to start What I hope to be a fruitful discussion. Thank you very much and i'm open for questions. Thank you So mr minister, thank you for your opening remarks and for Presenting what is a great tour de raison of the security situation in which Tunisia finds itself in a very very difficult region And I would also underscore what a great friendship I think many of the people in this room have with Tunisia and I myself have been to Tunisia dozens of times over the last 25 years and count many Tunisians as good friends and I would also Welcome that you were able to also have a chance to go to Shaiying why roaming Whereas I've been to Tunisia many times. I've never been to Wyoming So I'm quite envious that you had the opportunity But glad that you could deepen the relationships with our friends in Wyoming as well Um, I have lots of questions that I could raise with you. It's a way to begin the conversation But let me ask you this you had talked about all these Very very difficult challenges when you look east and you look west and you look south And then there are the challenges inside of Tunisia as well So, uh, could you could you kind of give us a sense of What is it that keeps you up at night? When you sit there and say, what is it that you really must be constantly watching and you You hope you don't get a telephone call in the middle of the night to hear about something happening It's a simple answer actually to your question as a minister of defense my major concern Would be terrorism in the northwest As you know, we have a thousand kilometers of border with Algeria And it's a northern part Where we have a lot of terrorism and there are three governorates janduba or in the northern part kief and then ksen And as I told you before These border areas a shelter for Terrorists they've been there for quite a while actually And here let me just Underline the exceptional quality of the coordination that exists between the Tunisian military and the gendarmerie and also Their Algerian counterparts this is fundamental As I told you there is a direct link between terrorism on both sides and for a while Actually my first term at the ministry This coordination existed and I can tell you that there are different aspects of it We have a secure system Which was generously Provided by the Algerians and we're able to process information about terrorists very quickly in real time Secondly, we have weekly meetings one or two weekly meetings at the border to Assess the situation and also If these terrorist groups start moving We Would deploy our forces on both sides in order to counter their progress So what I can say about my phobia if you will my fear my concern Is when I know that there is an ongoing Action and I'm waiting for the results. I'm concerned For the security of my troops at the border The gendarmes at the border Because the gendarmes are actually headed by the minister of defense So there's no difference for me between the military and the gendarme. So that's my concern Now there is another thing the other front And maybe somebody is going to ask questions about this. Let me just start the discussion a little bit But the second region Which is a high-risk region But the risk has been mitigated. It's the border between Tunisia and Libya, which is about 450 kilometers Consequently as I have pointed out and as you know With the crisis in Libya since 2011 the border was The focus of all kinds of trafficking notably Weapons trafficking because that's the most dangerous one Because it goes from Libya to Tunisia and then from Tunisia Back to the border and more and more it goes into the Sahelian countries, especially Mali And recently We Are in an emergency mode, especially since the advent of Haftar The terrorists Who thought they had some kind of a hideout are moving Towards us and according to the estimates, there are about 150 terrorists who Found shelter and were active in Libya and who are trying to cross The sea border or the land border between Tunisia and Libya, so we are on permanent alert with the chandelier but What simplified our life is that there is an electronic system that we set up And the first phase was implemented and it's very effective as a system And we are very satisfied with it This electronic control system. So in a nutshell, I don't know whether I answered your question But in a nutshell, this is my concern when there are some anti terrorism Actions being carried out and I'm waiting for the results. Unfortunately last week we lost a soldier And a few weeks before that There were a few deaths So this is a war We are winning really, I did not say this But Among the challenges We had security as a top One but thanks to the improvement of our operational capability and thanks to the collaboration Between the three services as you know Our services were not trained to work together. They were trained conventionally and Now the tools And the resources and the training Have to be adapted to the new needs So that they can fight this asymmetrical war Which is unique totally different From conventional wars and thanks to the Strengthening of our cooperation with friendly countries notably Our american friends and this cooperation Touch upon different areas Pretending to counter terrorism from training To education to information Sharing ISR As you know intelligence surveillance Wacken essence And so on and so forth And thanks to this cooperation. We've been able to put things back in order. So security is no longer the mega challenge socio-economic challenges and regional challenges came first Thank you again for joining us today. It's always a great pleasure to have Visitors from tunisia in washington As you well know tunisia enjoys a great deal of support in washington and rightfully so The partnership that our two nations share is deep has been growing and will continue to grow If I heard you correctly in your remarks You sounded Like you had a fair amount of confidence in the ability of the algerian security services to Maintain some semblance of stability during this period of transition And I'd be curious what you're basing that confidence on and whether or not you believe that the radical elements That were so problematic during the black decade Are gone or whether they are waiting for an opportunity to reemerge and does that concern you I will try to answer this question About algeria, of course, I don't need to tell you that the The most important problems for tunisia are internal And also the problems in libya in and in algeria. I have never stopped saying that the security of libya and of algeria It's the same as the security of tunisia If we are secure, they are secure and vice-versa and the same applies to libya Contrary to our concerns about libya Because there is no state in libya These are malicious and so on Then they set themselves up because of ethnic reasons because of Financial reasons for opportunities opportunity sake reasons. So We have tried everything to find a sustainable fair solution So that they can all agree all the warring factions, maybe Organize undemocratic elections at least to start a process And from that maybe a government can be set up to Unify the military and the security forces and also take care of the militias because the militias have to be either integrated or Go on their own. So if all the security and military forces are merged the militia would not be able to survive so libya Is a major source of concern for us Contrary to what is going on in libya Algeria doesn't cause me as many concerns And this is why if you know the history of algeria You would know that algeria Has experienced a very hard terrorism era as you called it the black decade And we lived it together this period because we protected the borders Together And we played our role In terms of securing the borders because algeria had Many challenges at the border And so When you're talking about terrorism is something that algerians know very well secondly The events that haven't gone on for about two months in algeria and let me pay tribute to the algerian people This is a unique situation These are demonstrations or maybe a revolution you choose your world And they have always conducted themselves peacefully in a very civilized manner With a lot of humor by the way We have never seen looting We have never seen burning we have never seen people breaking windows and so on and so forth so I think this is a very positive development and usually it's young people who won't change just like we had in tunisia Secondly And very important. I hope it it continues like this because in tunisia it did not continue like that This is also A revolution that was spontaneous There's no political party no visible political party behind the revolution So people just won't change And all I want for algeo Is for them not To repeat our mistake because political parties exploited the situation in our country. So the expectations of change from the young people Were not feel fulfilled in our country because The political parties Took advantage of this revolution Of these events and Gained power or became opposition Parties but in algeria everything is going Peacefully Algerians know about terrorism and third notion which is very very important There is a government There's the military And another important thing The algerian people is very close to its military and therefore They have excellent relationship. There is total trust between the people and the military in algeria The military is going to play an important role to manage what's going on right now There will be a transition that's necessary. They have to set up The institutions to organize elections for instance So that parties can be created and get organized This will take a little bit more time than they are thinking about because they think about the 4th of july I'm sure it's going to work smoothly and as far as tunisia is concerned as far as i'm concerned i'm not concerned at all I don't think that There will be a spillover from algeria algeria has a government And there's total trust between the people and the military in algeria So there is total trust also between the tunisian people and the tunisian military So to answer your question more directly we are less concerned about The impact of what's going to go on in algeria on the region But algeria is threatened just like tunisia by what is happening around it So algeria like tunisia are pathways for terrorism Terrorists may come there to Commit acts or to go to some hideouts and i was talking about that their preferred hideouts Because there is no government there. There is no authority. There is Poor governance, ethnic conflicts So that nexus is the northern part of mali And they are there And nobody knows what they doing because it's a no man's land But we have to be also careful about sudan If there is chaos in sudan It would spill over The borders and there the terrorists will try to find different Hideouts and they would go to places where there is no Government there is no state And there are different areas where terrorists can find haven right now So I don't know whether I answered your question about algeria. I don't think There should be concern about algeria. algeria is going to find her own way and another thing I want to ask about algeria which applies to all countries In the Arab world, but notably in algeria. I don't know whether you you have been following the news in algeria The events are confined within algeria. This is an internal problem Our algerian friends that I know very well I've been knowing them for quite a while We have a common history a very glorious history especially In our liberation movements algeria or algerians or Even tunisians have always had a principle they don't meddle In internal affairs of neighboring countries, but they don't want also meddling from overseas but as If you see what's going on there is no Visible meddling as we see in libya. There's no visible meddling in algeria In libya you see some interests From overseas but in algeria You don't see that they're gonna Get out of this situation. Maybe It will take them less time. Maybe they have less socio-economic problems because they have natural resources Unfortunately, we don't have natural resources in tunisia, but I'm convinced they're gonna get out of it with A lot less collateral damage than in other countries So to confirm what I'm just saying and and to To tell you that things are proceeding Normally in algeria, you know, we have some joint activities We have a joint committee that meets every year And we have joint activities We have joint exercises We have visits And these activities are going on as if nothing Changed At the border We continue to coordinate our activities as if nothing had happened or this to tell you that the situation is well managed in algeria and another thing that comforts me is that This is a demonstration. This is a revolt. That's very peaceful very civilized if you will And This was not the case in tunisia In the first few months of the revolution There was a lot of violence, but Tunisia doesn't have the monopoly of violence. I mean look at the yellow vest in france or in Or what you see in other countries, but once again What is going on in algeria is relatively calm And the military is managing the situation in the country and I have told you that they're going to Come out of it with much less damage than in other countries So we'll open it up for questions if you have a question if you could identify yourself with a hand or some other non auditory Mark I will call upon you and then if you could say your name and your affiliation so that The minister knows who he's speaking with Sarah Thank you, sarah your keys from the karnikey endowment. Thank you so much for your remarks I was wondering if you could speak a little more about how concerned you are about the threat of returning foreign fighters Tunisians who have gone abroad to syria and iraq to fight with isis How concerned are you and what is tunisia doing to address this threat? This is a typical question This is a very controversial Question in tunisia itself And therefore we're trying to Study the situation to find a solution Because it has a double impact security impact first of all And history has taught us that it is not always easy to reintegrate people who had been terrorists before and secondly Which is an important issue. How do we reintegrate them within society? We are about 11 million people in tunisia We have 1.2 million who are overseas So 12 million maybe all together and tunisia Aton on this issue Just like other countries to give you an idea We cannot estimate this accurately but approximately According to experts and According to the border patrol statistics, we have had something like 3,000 terrorists And 70 percent of them were in syria and iraq 30 percent in libya and 10 percent somewhere else It's in the Sahel maybe The question is How many terrorists have been killed? We don't know All I can say is that There are about 900 to a thousand who came back And they were in these various areas and they came back to the country Because they felt the pressure in syria or in libya and therefore These terrorists have Been put in the custody of what is called the anti-terrorism cell But the problem is like there's no material evidence to Sentence them. I mean they would say okay. We were In turkey we were on vacation there. We were studying there and Some terrorists came in the country With degrees pseudo degrees Pretending that there were students in a university So they tell you we were there for three years. We know that they spent three years in syria And they were with terrorists there So we don't have any physical evidence And the anti-terrorism cell Is in a delicate position because we cannot Try and sentence these people without having any physical evidence and therefore What we do is like we check upon them on a regular basis And we can remotely also check on them But there are other terrorists So this is the other side of the coin And I have to talk about this The tunisian constitution is very clear With regard to tunisian citizenship No matter what a tunisian has done Any tunisian has the right to return to his country when he wants to Meaning that we cannot strip these people of their citizenship Even though that is what some european countries want to do. They want to Strip certain individuals of their citizenship if these are people coming back from terrorist areas. We cannot do that Now I won't necessarily get Into my personal views, but this is not how you address the issue of terrorism By stripping people of their citizenship because then they will be stateless And then you have People going left and right continuing these terrorist activities The second aspect of this is that there are terrorists who are in Jails and prisons in syria and iraq And some want to return them to their countries of origin I think it's about 150 About 160 Tunisians in that situation We know that they have committed crimes and We are asking to Take them back. I think we have taken back a few already We are making the necessary preparation so that we can take others back And we want to create a program to help them reintegrate into society There are three ministries involved in this effort. Our american friends are also behind us We are working with the ministry of Justice the ministry of the interior and the ministry of foreign affairs in tunisia together We are reviewing all of our options To see how we can separate them Initially initially the idea was to put them in jail with the general population, but We don't want to do that because You're going to end up turning the general prison population into terrorists. So The idea now Is to have a separate facility for women We are setting up this facility so that We can take in these tunisian terrorists in other countries who are going to be sent back Now some tunisians are in favor of this and some Do not agree And they want these tunisian terrorists to be tried in the countries where they are located now because those countries may have the necessary Physical evidence to try these individuals and perhaps we could take them back once they have already been tried and once the evidence has been presented Because all that we have is All the evidence that we have is a stamp maybe on their passport that they went through Such in such a country When we realized Just how serious There were people behind them In these areas in these terrorist areas and once we realized how serious the situation was we adopted a very draconian position with regard to Youth and in recent years. We have prevented 17,000 young people from leaving and going to turkey Because we believe that turkey is just a preliminary step Before going to syria to become involved in terrorism Most of our tunisian terrorists have gone either through libya Or they have gone directly from tunisia to istanbul, especially at first in the first few years of this i'm not sure if they Are other aspects that i can provide but there is no definitive answer to this yet We want to make sure that we are Abiding by international law Human rights and we will also look at what other countries experiences have been But i don't think that any country has found a satisfactory solution To this particular problem. How do you Take back and reintegrate these terrorists Thank you. Mr. Zabidi. I'm afraid we've actually have run A little short on time here But we want to thank you for taking the time to come and share your thoughts On the record and on record perspective, which is always useful and always helpful to us to understand from Those who are in the region dealing with very very difficult challenges So on behalf of everyone here on behalf of us ip we want to thank you We want to thank ambassador goya and ambassador bloom for joining us today for karen marude for Your help in helping to set up this session today And to also just finish by letting you know that we usip will continue to do programs in Tunisia to help resolve conflicts and to bring peace but it's reflection i think of the larger Point of that the us and i think the international community are all there to to help tunisia With its efforts in dealing with these very difficult challenges So again, thank you. Thank you very much for coming to us today Thank you so much and if i may i would just like to once again Thank you for this very kind Invitation it was such a pleasure to be here today and thank you once again For all of your efforts regarding tunisia and its future. Thank you Thank you