 My name is Jen Karman. I am the supervisor of the Early Education Center here at Stalo Nation. I've been an employee here for almost eight years now and I've seen a lot of changes within the center and I'm really excited to be speaking to those programs today. The center is called Alamathow Early Education Center and that means in our language that means caring for children as our own. Wow. So what are the age groups of the students or the participants in your program? So our facility has programs for children zero to six years old and we also have one program that can incorporate expectant parents as well. So an expectant mother can come to the program and participate. So we have daycare programs for children zero to five. We have preschool classes for three year olds and four year olds and we have a family program which incorporates an outreach component as well. So that is the parent participation program and it's an education based program for our families. Very nice. Wonderful. Wow. So in terms of these programs, what is your aim? So is it a healing journey? Is it to pass on land based skills? Is there more than one goal or objective for these programs? The aim of our program is early learning, prevention for some of our clients and that education based education based programs as well. So what happens in your programs? In our daycare it is child care. So we're providing child care for these children Monday to Friday. The parents are typically working or in school. Some of the parents are accessing our skill based program here at Stala Nation. So we can accommodate that and a lot of our children are children who are in care with either MCFD, the ministry or the Aboriginal ministry here at Stala Nation. And what particular kinds of activities do you do in your programs? We are outside quite a bit. We spend a lot of our day outside exploring Stala Nation. We are very lucky to be, you wouldn't know you were in the middle of town some days, but there's cedar trees and there's you know some wildlife and there's trails and tracks for the children to spend time on. And we do early education based activities. We are an emergent curriculum program. So we are learning from the children. They are telling us what they want to learn about and what they're interested in. And so most recently there was a group of young children that found a huge rock full of ladybugs and they spent weeks, weeks at this rock exploring the life cycle of ladybugs and what happens to the ladybugs and all these things. So they were really interested in these little ladybugs. So they went there every day to check on them. They would count them. They would look at their differences and that spilled over into our classroom. So then they started doing art related to you know red and black art work started coming out and they would reenact what they were seeing. So it is a lot of what the children are interested in. We're moving very far away from us saying, oh it's September, we're going to learn about apples. We're not doing that anymore. So it really is what the children need and what they're seeking. Do you offer cultural building, skill building, knowledge building activities as well? Yes, so that what I was just speaking to was more of the day care, the child care and things like that. Within our other programs, within our preschool program we have an elder that spends a lot of the time with the preschool children speaking some Helcamellum language with them and spending time with just spending time with them. In our family program, because it's a parent participant, there is the education component to it. So we have the ability to bring in people to build up their knowledge on things bigger than us. So most recently we had somebody come in to talk about traditional medicines. The families learned how to make stinging nettle tea and things like that. So wow, that's really cool. Awesome. So how do you measure the success of your program? For instance, how do you know that the program is successful? How do you know it is meeting its objectives and having an impact? Do you see a difference in your students' participants at the end of the program? Can you describe how they are different? So we measure our success of our families and children very simply. We want to ensure that they're settled and they're secure within the programs that they attend. We look for their confidence building that they can participate in their daily lives to do what they need to do to build friendships, to make connections with their teachers, that they have empathy towards one another and that they're just free to be who they need to be. A lot of the children and a lot of the families that come here, there's a lot of chaos going on around them. So we make sure that this is a safe place for them, that they can just be who they need to be and that they're secure in what they're doing every day. If you have some form of evaluation for the program, what feedback do you receive? We have a needs assessment form for our family program participants. So we put that out quarterly to our families and ask them, you know, what are we lacking? What are we missing? What interests you or what do you need help with? This is also a form that we give to the families when they first come to us. So we can get a better idea of where they're coming from and what they may need. And do you revisit that later as well, that form that they filled out to see? Yeah, we do try to, you know, hit all the check marks. So are they interested in nutrition? Are they interested in parenting workshops? Are they lacking basic household management skills? Can we assist them in any way that way? So if one measure of success is enrollment, is enrollment increasing? In other words, is the demand for the program high? The demand for our programs is quite high. The family program, there is a specific criteria to enter that program. Your children have to be of age. The children and families need to be of Aboriginal descent or an expected mother. So those are the criteria to enter that program. So that and once you're enrolled, you can attend as many times as you wish or as little as you wish until your children age out of that program. The preschool participants, again, because it is a funded program, there are requirements that the children have to meet. They have to be from this territory, from the Stullo territory to enter the program, and or Métis, self-identified, or just of Aboriginal descent. The preschool program isn't open to anyone that wants to attend. Our daycare, and that program is full, and it does have a small wait list right now if children move or no longer attend our program. Our daycare program, however, it is open to the public. We have a very large wait list for children under the age of two. Currently, our wait list sits at about 45 people who are requiring infant and toddler care. We have, our center has moved away from infant and toddler care because the burnout rate for our staff and the requirements needed to care for these young children is different from just early childhood education. There's a bit more schooling and things like that. So we made a change a few years back to really focus on ourselves as educators to make sure we're doing the best that we can do every single day. So we move to multi-age programming, which is zero to five in one classroom. It's a group of eight, and we're able to accommodate our families a bit better. So typically we have sibling groups that come in or cousin groups that come in or children in the childcare system that need to be together. So the multi-age daycare works very well because we can accommodate cousins that may be a different age but are used to being together. So it's more of a family feel when you walk in. You know, you can walk into that program and it could be your living room with a bunch of, you know, eight children running around interacting that are all different ages. So unfortunately that creates a large weight list for under threes, but we are very highly recommended in the community. Aboriginal families and non-indigenous families want their children here because we are providing very high quality excellent care in our day care. That's wonderful. Wow. So having said that, have you faced any challenges and if so, how have you overcome them to make the program the success that it is? We have faced challenges with staffing. There is a shortage of early childhood educators in BC. There is a shortage of infant and toddler and special needs educators within BC as well. We are, you know, an hour away from Vancouver. So the further you get away from the city, the lower the pay gets unfortunately. We are lucky that we work for an agency where it's a little bit different because we are an Aboriginal based center. Some ECEs think that maybe they can't work here because they may not be Aboriginal or they may not know their culture. So I think that is hesitant for a few people, but at the end of the day we're providing childcare and early learning programs and are, because we are licensed through Fraser Health, we are hiring early childhood educators first. Whether they are Aboriginal or not. We have a wonderful team currently of educators with such passion and it took a long time for us to get here. And one of the challenges that we did face was the infant and toddler care and providing appropriate educators to run those programs because the turnover is so high. The burnout for ECEs I believe right now is five years. So they get into the field and they don't last very long because it's very demanding and it's low pay unfortunately, but our BC government seems to be trying to assist with that. From your perspective, what is Indigenous education? From my perspective I believe that educators need to establish a connection with the children to the land, expanding their learning and appreciation of what is around them. So we're very fortunate that we have wonderful outdoor spaces here and the children really do better when they're outside, when their hands are in the mud, when they're seeing hawks and eagles and owls soaring above their centre and they really do enjoy that. Also us as educators we need to understand where the children and families are coming from. So understanding their home life a little bit more, their cultural activities that they may take part in in the evening hours once they leave the centre. A lot of our families participate in longhouse ceremonies, canoe races and things like that. So you know it may keep them out in the evening. So understanding that when children, some children may come to the centre and they're a little bit more tired than normal. Speaking with the families and understanding that they were at the longhouse last night and they're learning their culture right now. And we also just want to ensure that the children and families have space to develop their gifts and their values and that they can share with us. And the children and families are our teachers. We're learning so much from them all the time. Great philosophy. If not implying that you have to have one but do you have a vision for Indigenous education over the next 10 years or any particular amount of time? I think where my vision is and where my thoughts are going is just ensuring that the children and families have a strong cultural identity and that they can share that here and that we're providing a cultural appropriate approach to early learning. So we're bringing in people who can share their knowledge that can demonstrate different things to us. So recently all of our staff learned how to weave on looms and it was a wonderful day of just spending time together and asking questions and finding people that can share with us because not all cultural activities are talked about. People just assume that you should know. And so I can speak for myself. I am Aboriginal but I didn't grow up in knowing my culture so I'm still learning all the time. So having time to spend with somebody who can share their knowledge and for myself not to be ashamed of things I don't know. So it was lovely to sit and learn how to weave on the looms and so the staff can take that back and do it with the children and some of the children already know so they can teach their friends. Wow that's fabulous. So if I can rephrase that would it be then that your vision is that this would just for all young people that little ones is learning about their culture. Well providing a space to learn providing a space to share that we are just providing a safe space for them. So given that what information materials or resources do you need to achieve that vision aside from funding? I believe that we need access to more elder supports. We're very fortunate that we do have our elder Mona Sapaas part time in our facility. She spends a lot of time just spending time with us and sharing information. We also have our bus driver who you know spends time within our programs as well shares drumming with the children and just spends time but that's within our family program and our preschool we would love to see that throughout the entire center. It is really when hiring staff and sharing that we are hiring the best early childhood educator possible. If they are Aboriginal or they do have an Indigenous background that's always a bonus but that's not necessarily the first thing that we're looking for because we're providing quality childcare and programs first but ensuring that we have a great working relationship with the universities in the area. So we work a lot with Seabird College and have practicum students come here that maybe already working in the field but they're just doing their upgrading to become full ECEs and so having those opportunities to have students come and Aboriginal students come and learn a bit more from us and hopefully we can hire them. Yeah that's awesome and any can you think of anything else materials or that you might need for your program? It's the bodies. Yeah it is the staff it really is the people it really is the qualified people who have a passion for early learning for Indigenous education because there's just not enough of us and a lot of a lot of early childhood educators make their way into the school system to work as education supports and things like that. This is a good call then I think for the need out there for individuals who might want to work with young youth and little ones there is a need out there so I'm really happy that we did this interview today because I think that's it's an important the most important if we're starting with you know our little ones right and and putting the focus on on that for sure.