 103.9 FM, WOZO Radio, Knoxville. Ladies and gentlemen, Digital Freethought Radio Hour. Hello and welcome to the Digital Freethought Radio Hour on WOZO Radio, 103.9 LP FM right here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We're recording this on Sunday morning, September 12th, 2021. I'm Larry Rhodes for Douter 5, and as usual, we have our co-host, Wombat on the line with us. Hello, Wombat. Hey, what's up? Happy to be here. Hey, welcome. Our guests today are George Brown, the second and a half. Hello. Hello. And Dred Pirate Higgs, how are you? How are you there? How are you in Canada? Digital Freethought Radio Hour is a talk radio show about atheism, free thought, rational thought, humanism and the sciences. And conversely, we'll also talk about religion, religious faith, God's holy books and superstition. Wombat, what's our topic for today? Let me see. Can you guys hear me still? Great. Yep. Random microphone problems. Hey, today we're going to be talking about Christian values. And I think most likely the most interesting point in Christian values is how the Christian God betrays every single Christian value. We're going to get into that in more detail. And when we start the show, before we go into the show, I'd like to throw it up for Dred Pirate Higgs for our weekly invocation. Dred. So this one's a short one today. Okay. It's in the Latin. Oh, interesting. Shunt, su Paris, su agira. And that means the gods have their own laws by Ovid. Nice. Nice. And question mark. All right. So now I want to bring up why we're talking about today's show. But before we do that, I need to have a quick little segment called Larry, what's on your shirt? What's on your shirt, Larry? Tell me what's on your shirt. Palm trees and alligators. Palm trees and alligator. You got some swans on there, I think. There's some maps in the background. Very, very, very nice. George, the second and a half. How you been? Oh, I've been looking into narcissism. It's a great topic and just searching for it in my own background, my own life, how narcissists have touched me. Can I recognize narcissists? Are they running the planet? They were suddenly running the country for the last four years. Well, we got that. We got that. In a way, I'm grateful. We're not going to talk about that anymore. Thank goodness, right? But in general, the concept of psychopaths running the show throughout history and in our modern life is fascinating me. Yeah, it's terrifying sometimes too. Also, I always try to, I always forget to look in the mirror, but there's also a really fine line between personal introspection and enjoyment of personal introspection. Because you can't look into yourself. I'm like, man, I just became a way better person after looking at myself. I saw so many of my own problems. Now I'm so much better. It's like, wait, no, that's another problem, because now I think... Well, that's cool. Medical students disease, I think, or medical student syndrome when you're studying medicine and every element that you study, you think you have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dred just took his headphones off after we were about to go to him, but he looks like he's doing good. So when he can hear us, he'll jump back to him. Dred, how are you doing? What's up with you? I'm doing well. The car, I think I told you about being hit by a deer. So the provincial... No. Let's get this straight. Did the deer hit the car or did the car hit the deer? No, I actually had it on a dash cam and it's very clear that the deer hit the car or smack in the driver's door. Had that been an elk or a moose, I'd be dead for sure. No question. I've definitely hit him before. I hit one of the Volkswagen. Oh, is that right? Yeah. And it killed the deer. The deer died. But I see BC has written off my car. So I'm waiting for a settlement and then I'm going to go shopping for another car. Oh, wow. What does BC stand for? The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia. So it's a government-run insurance company. And it's mandatory. You have no choice. You must have insurance and you must have it through them. Is it a pretty reasonable rate? No. Come on now. Speaking of which, what kind of car are you planning on getting? What kind of car would satisfy a deep-sea pacifarian? Well, it's got to be something that I control my little bowler behind, which I use for security work on the coast. I'm actually thinking probably an Audi Q7 or something. Oh, wow. That's fancy. Yeah, that's fancy. Yeah. I had an A3 and I really, really liked Audi. But I just need something a little higher, something a little easier to get in and out of. Sure. Yeah, sports cars are just too hard to get in and out of. Yeah. They are really fussy. Yeah. So the car that I drive is not a fancy car by any measure. It's one of the first cars I ever had. But I got to be honest with you. I love the tiny little car that I got. Because it's so nice to be able to park wherever I want. And if a car door hits mine on the parking lot, I don't even freak out. Like, that's not a big deal. Like, if there was like a crazy hill storm, you're like, yeah, it's fine. Like my car, it's total value, I think, on Kelly Blue Book would be like $3,000. Oh, wow. I can get another one if I need it. What is it? It's a Chevy Sonic. And in my head, it's a really good car to have in America because it's all GM parts for the most part. And we have a GM plant nearby. So my car broke down and I was like, oh, let me just go on YouTube video and figure out what the hell's wrong with it. And then I just ordered the parts there and here in 24 hours. And I put it in myself because it's awesome. You know, one of those guys has a car that if you fill it up with gas, it doubles in value. Yeah, basically. And I'm like, five star rate has got more airbags than any other car. And it's like, you know, subclass. And I'm like, you know, I'm happy with this thing. If I were to get another car, I made like a whole Excel table of things that I wanted to get. And every single one of them caused me more work to do or would cost me more long-term money to maintain. And I'm like, why? Where's the convenience in having a sports car? If I have to take it in somewhere to sort of someone else to work on it or have to only use premium gas or can't, you know, put like a sticker on the side because it reduces the value of the car. So this is crazy. I just want to be able to do what I want with my own thing. And so they can want to ride this out until I can get something really worthwhile. Speaking of which, I've been in a lot of conversations about people with the cars that they want, but also talking to them about their Christian values. And what I found really interesting was this thought process that I had where someone says, hey, all my Christian values are important to me. And I'm like, okay, cool. And of course, the God that they believe in is important to them. And that's cool. But their God that they believe in has betrayed every single Christian value that they have. According to the Bible, we should say. Absolutely. According to their holy book that describes their God, their God has betrayed every single one of the principles that they hold from their book, from their God to be self-evident and true and worthwhile. And so what do I mean by that? I think it would be fun exercise. So at least go through the Ten Commandments. And so one by one, as they're applicable, how God has actually betrayed or broken the principles or espoused in the commandments. And I think, George, you're going to have some fun stuff to weigh in because the Jewish Ten Commandments and the Christian Ten Commandments are fairly aesthetic with each other. You will find there's a lot of similarity there. But I think as a quick little Bible study, maybe we should just pull up the list of the Ten Commandments. So here's the first one. All right, I'm going to try my best to get this done. So Ten Commandments, first one, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. I am the Lord. Thou shalt not have gods before me. Or you should not have any other gods before me. Right? And there's different versions in terms of wording, but you shouldn't have any other gods before me. And I found that to be a really interesting concept. Larry, you may appreciate this because until this point, I wasn't aware that there were other gods. So it's a very, very strange first rule, won't you think? Yeah. Yeah, especially in the Bible, when he's talking about we and us, when he's talking about Adam and Eve, saying we shouldn't let them eat of the tree of life because they could live as long as us. They could be immortal. And you think, well, that's what he's talking about. You know, if you're the only God, but of course the Jewish people used to worship multiple gods, and that's where that came from. Also, some people would argue like there's the royal we, but the whole idea of saying in your first rule, the first rule of making God happy is, don't listen to all those other gods. I'm the best one. And that's like, isn't this a monotheistic religion? Yes. But the other gods don't matter. It's like, what other gods? What are we talking about here? Yeah. Like if I were to go to another question, what's going on, Larry? I was just going to say that the royal we didn't come around until a lot later. Kings of the, I think it was Queens of England introduced that concept. I think it was Queen Elizabeth. Maybe Victoria. But I mean, we're talking like 1500s. Oh, right. And Genesis was written 2000 years before that. So, you know, it's not the royal we, you know, some people claim it is, but the concept didn't exist then. Cool. George, it looked like you were about to say something. I was just going to say, I don't like that rule because it's so boring to only have one God, right? I mean, those Greeks, man, they had all that hope. What is it? A pantheon of gods? Yeah. The Norse people, they had all those people, you know, they're all different. A lot of fun. Yeah. This particular God Yahweh was the Jewish God of war. So, he was equivalent to like Mars and the Roman gods. Aries. Yeah. Who is Mars? Is that Greek? I'm not the one to ask probably. Dredg, what do you think? Roman. What I was going to say that polytheism lends itself more to people cohabitating because there's an appreciation that there's a church here to Venus, a temple here to Mars, another temple to Jupiter. And all these devotees can quite easily get along with one another because they're not sharing the exact same faith and they're not competing for that sort of totalitarian rule that a single God of a monotheistic religion absolutely demands absolutely. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. I think here, if I were to do the three steps of why I think this rule is silly, it's one, the rule should have been, I'm the only God, right? It shouldn't have been, hey, all the other gods aren't real. I'm the most real or like, don't hold any of these ever gods to my level because I'm the best guy because if I go up to any Christian, I'd be like, hey, so Christianity, polytheistic religion, right? It's like, no, it's monotheism. There was only one God. It's like, well, even God tells me not to listen to the other gods. So like even God's impression is there's other gods, right? So yeah, what are you talking about here? Yeah. And we were talking about narcissism a little earlier and this rule is nothing if not narcissistic. And pain too, which is a deadly sin. Yeah. It's the whole, I am a jealous God and I'm the only one you should be paying attention to and it just throws a red flag of like, oh man, you may not even be the nicest of the gods that are asking me to worship them then. That's like the immediate gut reaction that I have. Anyway, I think we can move on to the next one. The next one is thou shall not make craven images of me. And so there's, you know, there's been a lot of interpretations how to take this. I'll even take a different version. Thou shall not take my name of the Lord by God in vain. Some people will say that. Some people use that as a means of don't blaspheme. Don't, uh, don't make like images of me. Some people have taken it that far, but basically respect me. No matter what, don't use my name in vain. Don't make craven images of me. What's craven? Um, you know, dread dreads making some hand signals here. Probably best for radio, but I would say unpolite. Maybe, uh, images of me. Here's. Yeah. So here's it up. They say raven. Raven images are curved, you know, like cowardly. That's funny. Contemptively lacking in courage. Contemptively lacking courage. So here's cowardly, um, you know, blasphemous, insulting, like sort of crude. I would consider all those count. So I cannot tell you how many times I've been to churches where there's a giant picture of Jesus dying on a cross. And I'm sure that's probably not the image that he would probably want people to have was just like, look at all these awesome things I did. Remember that fish thing that I did? Remember that? That was pretty awesome. Right. No one takes pictures of the fish, but they have me up there being really uncomfortable. And I got, I'm like half naked. Like this isn't my best day. If he did come back and like they say they will, you know, he'll be forced to look at all of these images of him on the cross, even around people's necks. Yeah. Don't you know how much I hate crosses? Like, don't you know, like, don't you guys realize that? But also on the side note, that's weird that that's rule number two. It's not don't enslave people and it's not like treat everybody with respect. It's don't use my name in vain. If anything, that's almost going back to Larry's point of narcissism, like one of the most expressed forms of vain vanity in a sense. And it's like, I think we might be familiar with the story of the devil being sent to hell due to him thinking he was as pretty as God and God freaking out. And it's like, God, your second rule for people being nice to each other is don't even use your name in vain. That's crazy. That's kind of a nutty. That's a, that's vain in its own right. Yeah. We'll be talking about opportunity cost. Opportunity cost is for those of men I know is that you can have a hot dog or an ice cream cone. If you choose the ice cream cone, then the opportunity cost was the hot dog. You lost the hot dog. You could have had the hot dog. Well, an opportunity cost for, for what we're talking about here is that he, he forbids shellfish when he could have forbidden slavery. Right. He went for shellfish. Yes. That was his priority. Put that on a t-shirt. All right. That's funny. He kept this up. Okay. Uh, here is my other thoughts too. Like blasphemy exists. And I think most Christians would agree that God created everything. Yet no people are connecting the dots that that also means God created blasphemy. Cause Dennis is like, Oh no, he is like, yes, he did. If you created everything that counts for the bad stuff too. All right. And so if you're not, if it's a sin to use the Lord's name and vain, because that's blasphemous, then that is in its own right, a creation that God knew was going to happen when he made this universe. And they had every power to stop from happening yet chose to still do it. That is in his own right, a self-fulfilling sin that he, that he himself, you know, prescribed. Well, Isaiah 45 seven says he creates. He can, he does create evil. He says, I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and peace and create evil. So I, I, I, I, I, I, I create evil. So I, the Lord do all these things is what he says. So he created anything that's evil. So no blasphemy, but I blissfully George. What do you got? Um, where are we? Are we doing the Ten Commandments? And which are we on? We're on number two. We're on number two. Okay. Where does vain come in? That one. Yeah. Bowser not taken Lord by God in vain. And what does that mean? What does vain mean in this context? Uh, we've got to look up where? Yeah. For, for, yeah. Don't use it for your own self interests. Don't, don't use my name. In the interests of something that don't use me as a means to your ends. Use me always as an answer or something like that. That'd be like a straightforward context of it. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Essentially only using the Lord's name in praise of the Lord. Yeah. But not into make myself look better so I can sell more hats and stuff like that. every Christian does when they're like you know they got that little cross thing it's like how much of that golden diamond-studded cross cost well you know it was worth it for me to show off that I'm you know not just a regular Christian but like so I can't say I can't say oh god my gas tank is only half full yeah something like that yeah even that would be blasphemous yeah even that would be blasphemous that's taking the Lord's name in vain you're using his name as a means to express this interest a lot of Christians don't use the word Jesus as an exclamation or Christ there you go exclamation that's oh right guys we're already on number three remember to keep the holy Lord's day and other interpretations of that is remember to keep the Sabbath day to keep it holy and so now here's here's where the point of contention comes because there are such things as Seventh Day Adventists who do their best to maintain I don't do anything on the seventh day yet they reap the benefits of the people who do work on the seventh day of course I believe in a culture where people are always working and they still live their electricity on Saturday they still you know enjoy the benefits of people tying their shoes and going to work so it's this weird thing it's a weird thing for me but in terms of God specifically like he he did something on if you consider the seventh day creation of the universe literal he did something on Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday and then rested on wait I'm sorry I got that backwards Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday and then rested on Saturday and Saturday became the Sabbath day right and so apparently in the Bible no work was done on the seventh day and what do you guys think about that do you think there is actually evidence that God may have actually done something on a Saturday he rested so yeah I threw that out so I threw that out I threw that out to a Christian and they were like resting isn't doing anything I'm like well then then if you're drinking grog yeah that was just like well I mean he just did something like he looked back at his work he reflected and stuff like that he said it was good he made assessments like I thought like you're always doing something that's how you can like tell passing off time like it was truly nothing that he was doing then how can then you can make the argument I have a high level argument on this but basically I said hey he was resting I was like well that doesn't count because it's like well it says you're not supposed to do anything on seven I guess Larry what do you think well what I was gonna say is I've talked to the Christians before it says how did you wake up this morning God woke you up you couldn't wake up if God wasn't in heaven about each breath you take you know God is responsible for making you breathe and if all of this kind of stuff is true then he's working on Sundays because I wake up on Sundays I breathe on Sundays etc etc if he's responsible for every little thing even all the things that happen on Sunday then he's working yeah yeah so I would also like to think a bit is like I would love to have a holy God that doesn't take vacations once once a week because that's a lot of vacation days when you add them all up and it also feels like the universe can spin crazily out of control when there's no one observing it right and so either either God is truly doing the work that he's espousing as keeping the Saturday holy or he's still doing the work in terms of making sure planets don't collide into each other that gravity still works that you know fire is still hot and I I can't help but believe that when people die on Friday they don't have to wait till Sunday to get their souls processed or something think of all the people going to church and worshiping on Sunday are they not praying is he not answering prayers on Sundays is not listening to Sunday prayers I should be like his busiest day so yeah so basically there's another interesting thing so I think you can pray on Sabbath day but will they be answered on Sabbath day because that's technically work for God not being dread what he got what I was just going to say it just seems to me that you know for the number of times that the Israelites were you know in bondage that having their Lord God say that they need to keep the Sabbath day is the way to justify saying to their masters in Mesopotamia or Babylonia or wherever they happen to be that they don't work seven days a week they rest day yeah so they just codified that into well hey it wasn't me that said that it was God can you argue with God yeah and I wonder like slaves don't really get an off day so like I mean why is it that you know God takes one day a week off and and like literally that can't just be a standard for everybody though I do like the idea what least one day off you know I like my two days off a week maybe even more but I would say it's a weird concept to be a Christian who might be in a fire and you're like please God help me from this fire and God's like today's my off day I would say anyone who felt like they've had God listen to them on a Saturday is a recognition that God is breaking one of the 10 commandments because that's not what his job is to do there's an explicit list of things that you're allowed to do on Sabbath day and it's basically you can uh let's see you can pray you can think of the sick you can visit the sick but you shall not do any work or your son or daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your livestock or the serjoiner who is within your gates no work so yeah that's that's a bizarre that's a very bizarre concept so you can't milk a cow on Sunday your cow can't even make milk on Sunday that's what that I mean how many how many Jews and Christians will allow their women to work on Sundays like cook you know cook or meals or be CEOs or start their own businesses my old landlord who was a who was an Orthodox Jew and and trained as a butcher in Poland told me that they're they are allowed to take care of their livestock on the Sabbath okay I bet you everybody thinks concession is left and right you look in the road there's a lot of Christians on the street driving on Sundays so I'm told yeah yeah it's not all atheists out there on Sundays in traffic right so hey I want to finish at least halfway through this list before we get to the bottom of the half so I'll say this is number five honor thy father and thy mother you guys might have heard this also as obey your parents listen to me right uh my thing is I think respect needs to be earned and isn't necessarily a birthright towards kids or towards the parents and there have been examples of bad parents and so you should be able to recognize that and that doesn't necessarily mean you should honor them straight out if they treat you right and they respect you and they look care and love for you absolutely that diverse some you know retribution respect and love but by a creed from an authoritarian figure I don't think it holds as much weight yeah there are a lot of parents that I would think that aren't aren't worth respect for their actions against their own children yeah yeah George what do you think about honoring your mother and father oh you're on my friend what do I think about it yeah I know what I think about it talk to me a lot of people have pretty bad parents yeah you know I mean if your if your parent is telling you to kill somebody I don't think that's worth honoring but see that's my own personal view and I think we're talking about the Christian belief system here you know so something we don't hear a lot about and this is going to be a silly silly argument this is part where all the Christians just turn off their TVs and never listen to me again but like you always hear about God you hear about God's son but you never hear about God's parents so speaking of never honoring your mother and father you never hear about where God come from don't worry about them don't worry about the other gods I'm the most important one right here dred what do you got uh just got his trading room he's on online right now sure he says you got it all wrong with God God is timeless thus it takes him no time to do all the work I'll just step out of time here and do everything oh isn't that that's still interdimensional travel that still costs that still costs on I can circumvent my own rule I guarantee you the entropy on that is not zero so uh right let me throw out one last thing uh Jesus you know has in stories walked into temples and thrown things off the shelves and oh he pours stuff off fabrics yeah go for it he made his own scourge he made his way made his own scourge came back and then and upset the tables and beat the vendors who were there the exchangers of money I would not say if there's any so listen you can say whatever you want with as far as like Jesus trying to like save the reputation of the holy God but I can at least guarantee you uh what's this Joseph uh Mary's Mary's boyfriend slash eventual husband probably got a phone call the equivalent of which back in the Bronze Age and I was like your son did some really really messed up stuff today sir and he's just like he's not really my kid but okay yeah I'll have a talk with him you gotta honor your father and mother kid listen you don't do this so you're not my real death like I'm taking I'm I am feeding you learn how to use a hammer for crying out loud I'm trying to get Joseph gets no respect no love and on your mother and father there's no better example of this respect than what Jesus did to Joseph I'm just saying right there it's pretty good so god at the bottom of the hour I think over five go on yeah sure sure right okay this is the digital free thought radio hour we're on w ozio radio 103.9 LP FM right here in Knoxville Tennessee and we'll be right back after this short break 103.9 FM w ozio radio max hello and welcome back to the second half from the digital free thought radio hour I'm doubter five and we're on w ozio radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville Tennessee today Sunday September 12th 2021 let's talk about the atheist society of Knoxville or ASK founded in 2002 winter 19th year ASK has over a thousand members and we have weekly zoom meetings every Tuesday evening during COVID but we also meeting in person again at Barley's Taproom and Pizzeria in Knoxville's old city every Tuesday evening between like 5.30 and 8 out on the patio you can find us on Facebook meetup.com or just go to KnoxvilleAtheist.org or you can just google KnoxvilleAtheist it's just that simple by the way if you don't live in Knoxville you should still go to meet up and search for an atheist group in your town don't find one start one that's right uh where do we want to pick up there won't that I'm sure in a really fun link that we were talking about during the half hour break which was the link that takes you to where Google thinks it knows about you and I recommend anyone check out uh or google google advertising what google advertising knows about you or check out your adsense.google account for a quick little review on things you may not even know about yourself you might find good opportunities to start new hobbies based on google's thoughtful suggestions so I want to talk about the 10 commandments and how God's been breaking all of them since the beginning of time and I think it's a fun topic I think it's something we should consider when a lot of people say I stand for Christian values when it's their God who's not standing for Christian values in the first place and so we're going to take it up for number six number six by the way the numbers changed based on which versions of the book that you're talking about the Bible is not a consistent document but we're doing our best to try to take a general approach but one plus there are at least two versions of the 10 commandments in the Bible itself correct so we're gonna go we're hitting all the late but it's the now that's what I call 10 commandment commandments big so thou shall not kill I think it's a grand popular one another one that's called thou shall not murder and I think that's going to be a more recent revision but still thou shall not kill um has God ever killed anybody does anybody know Larry besides the entire planet yeah well that was only one time that was only one time Larry come on oh well you know come on could we get away with that and what kills what gets me is that he kills people who he's not even trying to punish like one time David took a census when he wasn't supposed to God gave his followers a plague which killed like 40,000 of them where he killed the first born of every Egyptian household you know innocent babies because he was po'd at a at a Pharaoh there's a lot of babies that get killed yeah he and he tells the his followers the Israelites in the Bible to kill people you know go over there and kill these people he does it all the time yeah um but yeah he's using a proxy in that matter but he does directly kill a lot of people it's really bizarre because you know Christians really love protecting the lives of babies that are still you know depending on the wombs of women yet God really loves killing babies and they never bring that up in the conversation it's very bizarre Dredd it looked like you were about to say something has God ever killed anybody murder yes I and I was I was just gonna point out that I bought this is the skeptic annotated Bible okay and it is a great resource for so someone's gone through the Bible and and pulled up all the contradictions and pulled up all the instances where God has killed somebody has a book that's big I indeed well it's marginalized right so if you see there okay man and there yeah that's basically twice the book it's it's great it's I've been reading through it I just working through Exodus now I got through Genesis and and it's a it's a fascinating read from the perspective of someone who's looking at it critically so yeah God kills people all the time even on Sundays even on Sundays so you know murder oh I'm sorry George Brown or George the second do you want to weigh on does God kill people I have no idea he has no idea hey you know from a skeptics point of view that's a reasonable answer right but from the Bible point of view if you're taking that as an actual truth that makes no sense right like you have in your book your holy book examples of God killing people in your own holy book right it's not like I'm I'm not an atheist being angry at God for killing people I'm saying you as a Christian believe this book about your God and in that book God is killing people and simultaneously telling you not to kill people and it's simultaneously killing babies left and right and I think we would agree in any context that this is murder God is at the unitary executive okay the unitary executive yeah borrowing from American history not too long ago when that term first was uttered in other words God can get away with anything and everything basically he doesn't though like he says he does and you can claim you do you can do you can do the Trump thing where you just say it enough times or you hope it's true but none of the stuff he's saying isn't falling out of recognition from people who are skeptical minded and being like hey you're not supposed to be able to do that and you're telling me not to do it no you're I'm not listening to your rules anymore and I feel like it wasn't until I read the Bible with that mindset that I was able to reject the Bible on terms of what the Bible was saying because I it's not like I didn't it's not like I hate a God it was just clearly there's nothing in here for me to teach me how to be a good person when I actually read this book because everything this character is doing is terrible dread what I was just gonna say on that very thing is that a lot of people without even trying to be critical of the Bible you know the like I remember hearing a couple on a couple of occasions you know well-known atheists saying I became an atheist because I started reading the Bible that's what compelled them to get away from religion because the further they dug into it the the more horrible a collection of tales it was all right but doesn't God get a pass you know like can God go out on Fifth Avenue and kill somebody no and get and get away with it I think he can because the rules do not apply to God just and that's that quote I said is that the gods have their own laws and I don't believe that because neither do I believe in gods nor above rules I think you let you lead by example is how I would say it and so even if there's a being that says I'm above rules it's like you can claim something to be the case but that which is presented without any sort of evidence it can be dismissed without any evidence and just what the God claimed I'm yeah but I'm a hitchens razor hitchens razor if you talk about insurance companies of people act die from acts of God all the time yeah also I have I want to move on to the next one because I think this might be a point of contention but the next one on the list number seven again I I think thou shalt not kill is probably the closest we've ever gotten to actually getting a useful uh commandment out in terms of like having to treat one another but I feel like we can find many excuses where killing might actually be absolutely necessary in terms of like uh reducing needless harm um moving making moving past really bad situations protecting yourself I think there are examples where killing can be not only justified but good and the fact that we spent you know many many rules already explicitly talking about how to respect God and how to have him above all else but not adding literally four words for thou shalt not kill but not expounding on that just a little bit that should not kill under these circumstances XYZ I feel like there's some lacking there in that in that rule because it was the first good one we had dread what's up well and the thing is God then commands them to go and kill the Canaanites or the male bites or you know whoever in order to take their land from them and we're we're definitely going to get there we're definitely going to get there so number seven I believe we're on number seven right now so thou shalt not commit adultery uh george adultery is having uh sexual intercourse with someone who is married who is not your partner more or less right it is a very yeah think about it's voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a person who's not like their their husband or wife or his or her spouse right thou shalt not commit adultery okay yeah okay that is a very weird rule after don't murder anyone except that's my sixth most important rule and then the other one don't don't bang my wife it's like okay any wife is like what about slavery we're still waiting for slavery I'll get there maybe I'll get there dread what's up dread what I was just going to say that you know it goes further than just committing actual physical adultery because the sin of course is even if you contemplate contemplated in your mind so it's thought that is its own rule that is its own rule that we will talk about in this list so this is specifically just the banging part we'll talk about wanting to bang in a in a rule later down the road oh god coveted yeah god is very specific about these rules he has two rules solely dedicated on you will respect me no matter what and then many rules about don't bang my wife he's very very very anti don't bang my wife or respect me at all like that's taken up already half the rules we've talked about and don't kill don't kill don't bang my wife and respect me under all circumstances larry what's up well these are the craziest rule that you know you wouldn't think that god has a wife but according to the book of kings he does ashira was whoa interesting yeah interesting so yeah he himself committed adultery with mary and had a child buyer well yeah according to the bible i'm just say that one more time larry i want to know this so like you said i have raped her right well who's god's wife he in my head spirit did in my head i wouldn't want to be a woman in mesopotamia bronze age where it's like someone says hey by the way you're going to get pregnant and you're not going to be married to anybody i'm just letting you know that's happening bye i'd be like oh you basically gave me a death sentence because this is not a place that likes that kind of thing and i don't have educated i don't have a partner you basically took all the value that my parents put in me because i'm literally just stuck to be married off to somebody else yeah and now i'm completely screwed thank you very much i appreciate that but you said god was already married larry what was up with that yeah well she's a consort i don't know if you carry the call about her what his wife or something but according to the book of kings i'm looking this up now just look up google god's wife and then come up ashira god had a wife ashira book of kings suggests that she was worshiped alongside what yahweh in the temporal according to an expert scholar god's wife was ashira so interesting you know so yeah and i hear what you're saying to dread about like the whole how mary was not most likely not consensually into the idea of getting you pregnant by god seems like it's a very bad thing but it wasn't but christians would argue that wasn't sex but i'm like he she got she got a set of dna from something well let's say that a god didn't even tell her himself right gonna have an angel yeah he sent a messenger boy yeah yeah it's just like hey congratulations you're gonna get pregnant i'm like oh i hate this idea i hate to say a lot this is a new form of sex man it's gonna be amazing messenger oh my god sex by messenger so yeah it's uh the ultimate incubus in the future that might be the way how we do it to be perfectly honest with you i don't know like if covet gets worse downloadable programs that knock on people's door and just say hey congratulations we just impregnated anyway back to back to the serious messages guys uh we are going into the next amendment which is i my head getting closer to we've only had two good ones in terms of conduct but thou shalt not steal i feel like i find that to be a classic so you should never steal and i think we'll go immediately back to what dred was saying about the canonites and uh uh in the hordes of people whose land got taken away because they weren't gods chosen people exactly take their livestock take their women take their children take their stuff yeah i mean yeah you're you're in klesiasis right now right there's gonna be some really fun chapters in 10 and i believe 21 that's all dictate how you take people stuff yeah how long yeah how long you can hold them as slaves basically forever how you can enslave their kids and and rules for when you set them free by the way there's not really good rules for setting them free you just keep them and their kids forever and don't beat them so hard that uh they die within two days yeah yeah yeah it might even be gracious in some translations to ask three days isn't that nice okay so uh there are in my head some places where you should be able to steal and i think um stealing is always a matter of perspective right like but i think we can make ground rules where it's like under most circumstances ceiling is not okay but there are exceptions where we will allow it as a society and we can merit whether or not this was actually a punishment worth severe punishment or you know like maybe take it as a learning lesson or maybe roll this person back to society um and i feel like when you make god have these short forward commandments that should not steal that should not steal or not kill but when it comes to like adultery or like taking his name in vain you get these like many many long espouse virtues i feel like there's a short-sightedness there because stealing and killing aren't necessarily so simple that you can make it so concise right you should expand on like conditions for when stealing is okay and maybe why stealing is bad and and when are the lines and how we should punish people not just tell me it's wrong but tell me how do we treat people who we do find have committed these things i know i've stolen cable i've stolen music i've stolen music i went on the internet i used to steal music like all the time and then i thought to myself am i really stealing music because the music is still there i just have a copy of it it's anything like these bits are completely different than those bits so like what's going on here am i stealing next thing you know now everybody's treating if they're charging money for i'm just like that was the same thing i was doing back in the 90s i was downloading stuff before it was even a platform now it's more convenient to download from the platform like if anything i was supporting the infrastructure that i'm ultimately led to this you know capitalization market that we're in right now i don't know i have i have a lot of weird opinions like that but we're going to go on to the next one which is thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor a multi word in my head uh commandment that i do feel has value like you should not lie as a witness against your neighbor what do you think about that layer sounds good to me uh yeah i can't think of an instance from the bible where god has lied but um i will give me a second okay so i in my head i got one i got one already i got i got two uh go ahead later he told adamanty that if they eat from the fruit of the knowledge they would die and they don't right i i have i have multiple examples where god talks you know or jesus talks back talk about you know satan and every single time and this is after like you know i'm reading the bible i'm doing it skeptically it's like what has satan done that is the worst thing that you didn't allow satan to do you know and it's like the worst thing satan did was like tell a bunch of nudist dietary advice uh on like what fruits to eat right for the most part and like offer jesus water when he was thirsty and i'm like where's the worst things he's done because in between those two things god went through like four genocides against people and i'm just like where's the where the where's the bad stuff i'm not saying i'm a satanist i'm just saying like if you start blindly and you read the bible and you don't know which one's the good character and the bad character right the bible feels very much like the bad character writing a story about how the good character is a terrible person and in my head it's like you are almost bearing a false witness to humanity because if you ask anybody who's a christian they'll say satan's the bad one and i'm like well what did he do that's bad um not a lot of answers look well he's he gives people cancer like that's what god does god gives people cancer well he he makes people feel bad it's like in what way because god is master like you're feeling this is like well he makes me feel good when i do stuff that god tells me not to do it's like so god made a system where you can feel pretty good about these things and god came up with the rules of the things that you're not supposed to do and and god and satan's the only one being like you can marry whoever you want it doesn't matter it doesn't really matter if you learn that person it's like no no no god said that's a sin sorry if i'm talking to myself i do feel like there's not a lot of examples that are clear cut for satan being bad and i feel like every admission or every statement that's against satan in the bible almost feels like bearing false witness because you're hearing it from a person who has committed genocide and who has killed babies and glossed over it to the next story in his book every single time i feel like that's one of the biggest examples does anyone have any others dredd well uh larry you had one didn't um a lie i just i just mentioned it um i'm about adamany lying to adamany oh that's a great one that's a great one okay uh i mean if god knows where everybody you know who knows everything about everybody he was walking through the garden saying where are you guys you know yes you know that's a lie yeah yeah not only that but like when kane killed abel and god's like where's your brother it's like you know where my brother is kane i think well i feel like kane actually said that and someone's like you know what i what i did don't pretend like you don't know what i just did it's like i don't like it when you talk to me like that it's like you know you made me talk to you like this you made this universe where this stuff happens george we're having some fun here i i want to make sure you're not just watching you guys and and listening because you're all former christians and you know you you grew up with the baggage and had to throw it off you know i i didn't have to do any of that i i gotta pass yeah i feel like the great lie in the bible is that satan is somehow worse than god and i feel like everybody walks away from the bible with that impression but that is nowhere at all explicit in the bible in fact i want to say dramatically true um for those of you who are watching on youtube or listening on on w o z o if you don't know it i was raised an atheist and i come from a jewish background so i did not get this indoctrination and and um to me a lot of the information is actually new even at at my advanced age so enjoy i feel like if you were to read the bible with no context whatsoever you would read and be like oh man this character just killed everybody except for one family in a boat nah well i look you see and let me tell you what the thoughts are that are going through my mind as i'm listening to you all so because um i think you find it interesting a neighbor of mine was lecturing me about heaven and hell here here in the bible belt and and uh you know what what he's implying and i've heard many people say is believe unto the lord jesus christ and thou shall be saved so none of these rules mean anything if you simply believe in jesus christ you're home free what's that that's a christian approach yeah you don't have you don't have to obey any commandments because you know when you're ready to give up the ghost to you just say i take the lord and george i think you brought up a topic that's worthwhile to have a full discussion on next week but i do want to get through these last two commandments just before like the whole idea of jesus being used as a loophole is definitely worth talking about but we got only two more left and i do want to make one more point before we move on from thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor the one of the other big examples for me is when god invites satan to heaven to play pranks on on on uh job jailed yeah job yeah and like is literally hanging out with satan and satan's like you know i this guy probably is a nice dude he's like no no no he's the nicest guy he'll love me no matter what i do to him check this out and and satan's like okay i'm not telling you to do it and stuff i was like no i'm gonna kill half his family i'm gonna kill all his crap no i'll kill his whole family look he's i'm gonna give him warts i'm gonna do all these bad things and he still loves me isn't that great okay i'm gonna make some new people now there is new family now there is new everything's even okay go back to hell that in my head is like if he if satan is literally as bad as god would espouse to the point where he's made a whole revelation for war against lucifer right why is he inviting him buddy buddy into heaven to start playing pranks on his people like that is such a contrast of like you say this guy's a bear a terrible person he's clearly your neighbor yet you've made this entire narrative against him yet you're hanging out with him and having fun in heaven that seems very bizarre to me that is that is bearing false witness as explicitly as you can get next one number nine dreads favorite bouse out not coveted by neighbor's wife don't bang my wife and by the way our animal that's a that's the very last one whether it's like don't bang my wife don't even think about banging my waivers like my wife and that's funny how like after like a couple of steps it like comes back in like even more important this is like i just want to make sure you're very clear that no one bangs my wife all right okay but thought crime thought crime thought crime yeah you were talking about how the bible is a terrible indictment of god himself you know because it was almost like it was written by satan because god's such a terrible character in it it's like yes yeah it's almost like also think about how how terrible indictment of humans it is for their gullibility and willingness to follow such exactly what entity oh trust me and we just went through four years of showing that we haven't really progressed much but like if i were to ask trump to write a memoir of himself it would very much be well here's all the things amazing things i did all the amazing things i created i did all these amazing things i'm very amazing person and don't listen to this obama guy he's the worst person ever i was like okay he's like it feels like that's the book you got and everyone's like trump's the best one obama's like i feel like that's the world we live in right now just on a supernatural front what's up george well i'm just saying are you describing god as a narcissist the very first rules you know and we're going to go with the very last rule before we close out today vows out not coveted by neighbors goods i hate both of these rules because i think we've shown in even in the bible that god has recognized people for their beauty and purity which are like in my head the two biggest attributes that people coveted when they were looking for wives themselves or at least value in women because that's the only time women have any value in the bible is when they're either virgins or uh act like they're virgins so i heard a voice in my head that told me atheism is true and not marry them uh or maybe marry them by killing their well husbands and stuff like that it's a it's a whole situation the lyla very beautiful but all she does is tell you know samson to cut his hair and and she eventually gets her due to the lady that gets turned i'm sorry i don't know your name there's no good characters that are female in the bible except for the ones that are pure and virginal and so for the most part it seems like god's single handedly picking mary did so on a purpose didn't marry her but clearly coveted her and she was already committed to joseph and i feel like joseph gets the shortest stick in the bible one of the best dads no one credits him whatsoever he was he was cuckold by god yeah basically i don't know if we can stay on the radio but there we go we're just going to let that fly through and then we'll go into dousa not covet that neighbor's goods you know that's like cars that's like jobs that could be anything that could be livestock it could be so many different things and i feel like the bedrock of capitalism indeed right if there's one thing that god is angry about satan for it's that once upon a time satan thought he was pretty right this whole this whole supernatural this whole supernatural fight that's going on between the two is because god thought satan was a little too pretty not pretty in general sense but prettier than god and then in my head that's like we already established that saving god our neighbors right and so for god to think it should be illegal for you to think that you're prettier than me because you're not prettier than me because i'm prettier i'm pretty i'm gonna do whatever i can be pretty i'm gonna get all the angels i'm gonna get actually deserve some followers i'm gonna invite you to my place in heaven where i can point out the things that you don't have as bets that i already know will happen it's like you are clearly insecure to a level that has caused all of humanity all this distress and i feel like it's not about wise and i'm glad that you separated wise from good at least right so they aren't seeing this property but there's clearly an insecure thought crime barrier that god has in terms of like hey you can't think about these kinds of things and i i just find that really really weird because he turns around and tries to justify you know his own actions in that same capacity to dread thoughts i don't want to have the final thoughts on this but coveting by neighbors good is that even a bad thing what's our is coveting your neighbors good even a bad thing like well i don't really think so like like larry says it's the bedrock of uh modern uh consumerism um you know if i didn't like my neighbor's car who's driving an Audi Qs ever well you know uh why you know i don't know it just seems like a silly silly thing it's like i like your shirt i might get a shirt like yours dread right yeah i might want to covet your goods but i'd get my own shirt yeah it's not like i'm taking your shirt i'm not stealing i'm just me like hey that's a cool shirt i might want a shirt like that larry cool shirts i might want to rock shirts like that too you know i'm just saying you got a cool piano behind you george like there's things where i think it's okay to want stuff it's a question more about your intentions and how you actually act what's what are your actual actions right your actions and your intentions behind them thinking think all you want i'd like to think that if you think bad things but still do good things it's a good sign of your character because you're making sure you're keeping your inhibitions in check right so what is religion yeah larry because you know you could be a vegetable on a medicine table and people would be like oh look at this person he's not coveting any neighbor's goods he's not coveting anything he's not stealing this is the ideal christian right here right here oh my god yeah we're pretty much running out of time here all right larry sorry sorry final words uh check out let's chat on youtube dread pirate where can we find you at mine pirate m-i-n-d-p-y-r-a-t-e i'm on sunday mornings at eight a.m live streaming this very show very cool george where's the best coffee the best coffee best coffee there are good coffees out there nice but i'm my focus at your house though well i just i just make do really uh my focus is on narcissism and you know i just want to say to everybody just learn as much about narcissism as you possibly can cool it's a great topic nice larry cool my own content is can be found at digitalfreethought.com be sure to click on the blog button for radio show archives atheism and many articles on the subject of atheism this has been the digital freethought radio hour remember everybody is going to somebody else's hell the time to worry about it is when they prove that heavens and hells at souls are real until then don't sweat it enjoy your life and we'll see you next week say bye everybody bye bye everybody ramen ramen am i going to go to hell larry