 Hi, I'm Rusty Komori, and this is Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. I was the head coach of the Punahou Boys Varsity Tennis Team for 22 years, and we're fortunate to win 22 consecutive state championships. My book Beyond the Lines is about leadership, creating a superior culture of excellence, and finding greatness, which is what this show is all about. My special guest today is one half of the hugely popular Japanese band Def Tech, who has sold millions of albums, and their music videos have been viewed in the millions. He is my friend Shen, and today we are going beyond music. Hey Shen, welcome to the show. Aloha Rusty, thank you for having me. How's everything in Japan? So far so good. We just got let out of the state of emergency here on Tuesday. Oh, that's good. People are starting to go outside a little bit now. Now Shen, I know that you grew up in Kailua, but I don't know what your first job was that you actually got paid money for. What was that? First job I ever had, I was in third grade for the Sun Press. I remember the Sun Press. Yeah, I think it's still around too, yeah, in Hawaii. But yeah, once a week wasn't too bad of a gig, and you know, taught me a little bit about money and responsibility, and it was a good first step, I think. And then you went to Iolani School, graduated in 1999. What was some of the things that stood out to you when you attended Iolani? The biggest thing that I saw at Iolani was that the environment was so prone to studying. When you have so many kids pressured by their parents to do well because they're paying for school, you tend to study. And yeah, I mean, you know, kidding aside, it's just great teachers, great environment, and you know, it's a wonderful place to learn how to thrive, to learn how to be an adult. And from middle school, I went from seventh to 12th grade, so you get the high school experience from seventh grade, so you're learning how to do classes all on your own, and you know, really taking initiative, learning motivation, all the while doing sports and learning from coaches and, you know, community. It was just a wonderful experience. Of course, we had to study a lot, and it was tiring. And I always had a really heavy book bag, but I'm really grateful for it. And after all these years, I've finally come to realize that it's the legacy school of the King and Queen of Hawaii, of Iolani Palace, Iolani School, you know. So I've started to take more pride in that and trying to help spread more of Hawaii culture, more and more and more, trying to be authentic with it for myself and to people in Hawaii, teaching people in Hawaii and teaching people in Japan. I like hearing that, Jen. I'm really grateful to have gone. Yeah, it's always great to spread, yeah. I want to know about your wife and daughter. You know, are they as talented in music as you are? My wife plays piano, and she likes to sing. My daughter loves to sing also. I'm trying to foster my daughter into, you know, enjoying music the way I do, but not pressuring her about it. We do laugh a lot, and we do sing a lot. That's one thing that I've tried to make a priority in our house. Well, you know, when I get to connect with you when you come to Hawaii, I mean, you and I, we laugh a lot, and then we talk for hours and hours. The conversation can't stop. And, Jen, I know that you went to University of Hawaii for a couple years, and then... Correct. But you didn't finish UH. What happened? Um, okay, so two years at UH, I actually stayed on the dorms to get away from the house, you know what I mean? And after two years of taking remedial classes and getting the basic stuff out of the way, I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I had no idea what kind of a major I wanted to get into, and there really was nothing academically that made me passionate. And at the same time, one of my good friends from when I lived in Japan when I was in fifth and sixth grade had been doing music right out of high school, and she had gotten signed to a major record label in Japan called Epic, Sony Epic. And, you know, I saw this 20-year-old, same age as me, affording his own house, having his own car, doing his own thing, living lives in front of tens of thousands of people, you know, seeing this really good friend of mine grow from sixth grade into adulthood, and then having that impression forced upon me every summer I'd come back to Japan, and it was just really, really inspiring. And, you know, I wanted to do something similar to that. You know, I didn't want to just be in classes all day. And so I kind of went to my father and talked to him, talked to my mom. But my dad gave me really good advice. And, you know, I was kind of hesitant. You know, I thought that he would be like, you know, don't go. I want you to finish school. He's a professor at the University of Hawaii. So, you know, that was kind of, I would just assume he would want me to finish. But he told me, if you jump, the world will catch you. And that advice was probably the greatest advice I've ever gotten, you know. And, you know, he said, if it doesn't work out, you can always come back and start school up again. You know, just defer for the years. So I did that and came to Japan. And, you know, it wasn't easy. And I didn't really speak Japanese all that well. I had developed the pronunciation from when I was in fifth and sixth grade here. I still had the Japanese ear, but I couldn't speak. So, you know, coming here and wanting to do music, not having done anything professionally, never having written songs. It really was, you know, jumping into the deep end of the pool. And, you know, in the Kanto area in Tokyo, 30 million people, you're surrounded by people here. So, you know, it really was a big step for me. But, you know, at the age of 20, I think that's the perfect time to, you know, start new things, try things. You know, looking back on it now, I'm 39. And, you know, I wish I had done more, you know, not to say that you can't teach an old dog new tricks and you can't, you know, start anything at any time. But that advice my father gave me to jump was really what started all of this. And I'm really grateful for that. No, that's great advice and great to have that support from your dad. And how did you and Micro connect? Micro is my partner from DevTech. It's interesting. It's the same circle of friends that connected us. Basically, my good friend, we call him his neighborhood in Tokyo. And Micro was a friend of a friend and we all started hanging out and then went into my friend's basement and tried to make some music. You know, there was no pressure. There was no structure. It was just, we were there to have fun and we started making music together. And the third song we made was, eventually, fast forward three, four years. The third song we ever made was the song that hit in Japan that sold two million records and gave us the status of being a major artist in Japan. Well, you know, I love that your guys' song Catch the Wave and My Way and those are the two big, huge songs. And you know, you and Micro have such a special relationship together. And why is it that you guys are so successful? I think it comes down a lot to discipline. Both of us did karate when we were younger, me and Hawaii him in Japan. And having that, you know, some, some level of discipline, being able to sit, say, is our style on your knees and hold that, being able to listen to somebody. Not to mention having motivation, you know, our passion for music and the desire to create something that we've never seen before is huge. You know, that's the one thing that I really love about music. If I go to the studio, at the end of the day I'm going to have something that I can play for you. You know, whether it's just an idea, some kind of memo or a finished product, you know, you can actually go from nothing to mastered in a day if you have the right team with you. Having said that, it's, you know, motivation and discipline are really, really important, especially with music. As an artist, we tend to get lost in being an artist, you know, people are completely identified with the, an artist has to be flaky an artist can't be responsible an artist can't, you know, do what they're going to say. You know, and that's just something that I just haven't bought into, you know, I think everyone who's alive is a working piece of art. And inspiration comes at any given moment in front of you, whatever's in front of you is inspirational. As long as you are in spirit, so to speak. As long as you're connected to a good feeling energy, whatever you want to label it. I think that's the doorway into artistry. And having a discipline behind that really makes it easy for us to be successful, not giving up. That's another really big thing. Yeah, no, that makes sense because discipline is such a necessary part of success. And when you guys were coming out with your first album. Was it easy for you guys to find a record label? No, by no means actually. At that time it was 2003 2004. And even back then, you know, Napster had started. Internet things were starting to shift from record sales to internet base. And everybody was saying that there's no such thing as a platinum album a million seller album they don't exist anymore. And so we were growing up making music with that in our ear, going, Oh, it's not possible for us to succeed. It's not possible for us to get a million records or you know, whatever the level of success is that people accept in society. And so we really, of course, we were having fun but at the same time it was very challenging for us because we had never made music before. And we got together 10 songs in a fairly short amount of time. We weren't under any kind of time restraints or time pressure so that was a good thing and you can hear it in the music. But that first album demo that we made we shopped to every major record label in Japan. And they all told us the same thing. Something's missing. And so, you know, we couldn't get a record contract with anyone. And well that just sort of forced us forced our hands so to speak, we knew that independent record labels. In terms of business in terms of life percentages, you retain a way higher amount of rights to the songs that you make. You know on the one hand we were like well it's kind of a good thing that we don't have to go to major go through a major record label. But at the same time you miss out on promotions and connections and that kind of stuff. So we did it we went on our own we made it. We made our first album with the best kind of studios we could be working with the best artists we could best engineers. We printed it up with a independent distribution label in Japan called village again. And through that process. You know, it just it started word of mouth we had a great manager who had taken this sample CD that we had made professionally made CD to clothing stores to record stores to basically anybody who would take the CD from us and play it. And there was a great network of word of mouth, as well as a great commercial with Yokohama tire. And that Yokohama tire commercial in Japan really really sparked the album sales for us. Within a month of release and that commercial. It had gone platinum 100 100 month like a million records were sold. Another month later another million records and then as you mentioned catch the wave the second album we release happy year later. I think it was like 1.5 million third album after that it was another 500,000 it just it just kept going. That's amazing that that you guys I mean you guys, you know, all these record companies said no and you guys went on your own and then ended up selling millions. Now, I have, you know, I want to talk to you about my books beyond the lines and my new one beyond the game because in the books I talk about choices and making an impact and taking taking risks and you have done all of that. I mean you've you've made some great choices you make an impact. What are your thoughts about taking risk. Taking risk. It's an interesting question. Risk management is a very very important thing. At the same time, managing that risk shouldn't be the thing that stops you from taking risk. And I mean, of course you've heard the old adage of no risk no reward. And people talk about that a lot. I actually try not to think about it in terms of risk. I try to think about it in terms of opportunity. And another big phrase that has helped me along the way is the that it's, it's really, it's all up to you it's all up to how you center your energy and what you're putting out there. So if you're always thinking about risk and worried about that, then, you know, maybe, and it's that feeling less so about the words or more about how you're feeling when you're thinking about how you're saying the the energy that you hold should be in a place of uncertainty and, well, in Hawaii we talk about Aloha a lot but I talk about the the love for life. So if you're in love with life if you're in love with breathing, because that to me is the most simple aspect to life if you don't breathe you die. If you can keep in alignment with that that joy, and it will show on your face when you're happy. It's coming out of you people can feel it, you know, and I think that's the greatest risk is to go from having this to going. And that's fairly common thing and actually it's starting to scare me when I see people go from ha ha ha. What just happened there. But yeah, risk, risk is important. You know, you have to take those leaves. It's just like my father told me, you know, if you don't jump, you'll never know. So if you jump, the world will catch you. And Shen, I know that you are fluent in Japanese now. And was it easy for you to learn Japanese? Well, it's a little difficult to learn Japanese, but it's been a little easier for me for about three years. I understand. I understand. Now, Shen, you guys, you guys have performed to, I mean, countless sold out, you know, shows. How does it feel? I want to know the feeling of when, you know, all of the audience members know your songs and they're singing your songs with you. What is that feeling like? Oh man, it's surreal. I mean, yeah, look at this image. I mean, it's just, you know, countless people, all you see of hands in the air. It's such a surreal feeling. And it also goes back to that discipline thing because, you know, for me and micro, we're fairly used to it. Having said that, we are always nervous before we go on stage. There's nothing you can do about that. You look calm and collected and people will be like, really, you're nervous and you'll be like, yeah, my heart's pounding, feel it, but you become so good at sort of masking that. But whenever you step out on stage, man, it's always such a live feeling. It is so in the moment. And if you're truly there in that moment, not even you really knows what's going to happen. I think that's really why people standing on the audience side of it, they look at the people on stage with this, this, this wants to be in that place to want to be in their shoes. And it's really an interesting juxtaposition because you look at them looking at you, and then them looking at you makes you even more nervous or can take you out of the moment if you're not really really centered and grounded. So it's kind of an interesting dichotomy because on the one hand, you're really, really having a lot of fun and you're just high on life, so to speak. On the other hand, you're, you know, you're really, really nervous that something really bad could happen. And I believe that's called flow, right? There's a wheel, right? Where if you're in that zone, anything is possible and it feels great. And you know, I saw you guys perform you and micro as deaf tech a couple years ago at the Waikiki show and you guys were awesome. And I know that two years ago, you guys performed at the Osaka billboard live. How was that experience for you? Billboard Osaka. Oh, it's a great experience. They have a billboard. I think they just opened up in Yokohama as well. But as you can see, Osaka billboard, we have a great cast of people, micro in the blue there, me and the yellow, Natalia on ukulele, really great musicians. But the experience of a dinner show is something completely different. You know, as you saw in the previous image, when you're doing in front of 1010s of thousands of people, it's, you know, usually outside in a festival open, whereas billboard is a dinner show. So you're sitting, everybody's dressed up. There's a lot of pretense people are drinking wine. It's, you know, it's a very, very adult environment. And, you know, me and micro always sort of pride ourselves on on the thing in the Peter Pan world, you know, we want to have the Peter Pan syndrome as long as we can. We want to be thinking happy thoughts and having fun all the time. And again, it's a very interesting dichotomy because you know we're doing such a serious thing and people are actually paying to see us to enjoy this experience. So we have to authentically have fun on top of remembering 70 minutes worth of lyrics and music and, you know, keeping things flowing and interacting with the audience and billboard Osaka billboard Tokyo. I mean, there's such a such great venues and the audio quality is good that that's really as a musician what I talk about a lot. If the house sounds good, then we really are authentically able to have fun. It's whenever there's PA problems or, you know, little things that happen that make it really hard. But every experience I've had with billboard has just been been top notch. I mean, everybody's so professional there and wonderful. If you have a chance, I really, really recommend it. Another great location is a blue note. There's one in Waikiki. Oh, yeah. Love the blue note at Waikiki. And that's, you know, I know that you you just came out with a new album. I mean, is it out now? Can you tell me about it? Yeah, sure. We I have a production company called Fun Time Production, and we released an album called Quarantine on May 1. Wow. Nice. Yeah, yeah, all of all of what's going on in the world and everybody being locked down. It was it was really, really serendipitous. We had a great list of songs that we had been working on and finishing up at that time. And this compilation album isn't just with the Fun Time Production crew, Fun Time Pros, we call ourselves, but also a whole bunch of different artists from all over the place all over the world. There is some Japanese artists on it. Majority of it is in English. But like I said, 26 songs, so there's something on this album for everyone. Feel Good Dance Music, there's Dark Breeding Music, there's Reggae, there's there's all kinds of music. And it's a great, a great experience, 80 minutes of music so you can just put on the Quarantine album, hit play and sit back and take you all over the place. Jen, I'm excited. Now, I want to ask you, you know, you know Hawaii so well and you know Japan so so well. What is it about Hawaii that the Japanese people love so much? Hmm, one of the biggest similarities that I see between the two and they talk about this in Japan a lot is that Japan is an island country. And that's something that the identity of people who have grown up on islands and come from islands is a very different mentality than other places. You know, coming from Hawaii. I've never really identified with the mainland and I see it. I see it in Japan more as I meet people from the American mainland, where, you know, I look like I'm from California, my father's family is from Cali. Well, my mother's from Holland. So, you know, I kind of grew up on a very different wavelength and I meet people from the mainland and it is just a, you know, I can relate. I've learned how to and, you know, having a father who's from the mainland, it it made me who I am too. But then growing up in Hawaii and being in that environment on an island, it really really does something fundamentally to you and you know, looking at the similarities between Japan and Hawaii, it's just there are so many. For example, the word kite in Hawaiian ocean is exactly the same thing in Japanese kite. And it, you know, links the two countries, you know, and that, you know, that's just one one example. Rice is another big one. You know how it is in Hawaii. Oh, yeah, of course. Taking off your shoes at the door. Like how you said, Kai, you know, about ocean. I mean, I always learned something when I talk with you, Shen. As do I, we're talking to you. Now, Shen, I know that, you know, you're a guy that has, I mean, you have such positive energy, you have such a great outlook on life. What is a tough challenge that you have to overcome in your life so far? The greatest thing that I've had to experience was the managing of my own ego when it comes to fame and money. Ah. So, you know, it is a very cliche thing that when a musician becomes famous, one, everybody starts to look at them differently. And then two, when you start to get a whole bunch of money, then you're free to do whatever you want. So it really enables you to explore the depth of your selfishness. No, that's that's interesting. Wow. That's really interesting. Having done that at the age of 25, and micro as well, he's nine months older than me, so a little bit older, but basically on the same level, coming into the fame and the money, and then having to deal with each other. You know, a two person group, they say is, can be easier than a four person group, because when the four people is just way too many different egos, and in a two person group, it tends to always be a battle because you're just facing each other. So death tech did break up for three years. I mean, I came to Japan and did the music thing and we succeeded and fame and money and connections and people and you know everywhere you go people are looking at you. You know, I'm just an island where I'm from Hawaii, it's like brah, I go beach like what are you guys talking about. And so I literally had to run away I had to get back to the I know I had to get back to Hawaii to feel the energy. I mean, kind of goes back to the question you asked that's one of the big reasons that Japanese people love Hawaii is the energy is undeniable. I mean, I think it's like 4000 before the pandemic and everything like 4000 Japanese tourists arrive in Hawaii every day. You know that more people visit Hawaii and then who live there. It's really amazing to me that it goes back to that and the qualities of Hawaii is something that will always bring me back home and always I always have a longing to go back to Hawaii. But I want to get back to your original question. Let me know what it was again. No, you did good. You answered it really good there, Shen. No, that was that was really good. I love your insights and Shen, I want to thank you for taking time to join me on the show today. I mean, I'm going to look forward to your next trip back here to Hawaii so we can talk and connect and do what we do. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I always look forward to meeting you too. So, Shen, thanks for joining me on the show, Aloha. Much Aloha, but I appreciate it. And thank you for watching Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. For more information, please visit RustyKamori.com and my books are available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble and BooksHawaii.net. I hope that Shen and I will inspire you to create your own superior culture of excellence and to find your greatness and help others find theirs. Aloha.