 We are all a very warm welcome to the Havels presence spotlight a series organized by Real Diplas Masterclass. Friends, Spotlight is a monthly webinar series exploring the dynamics of lighting featuring nationally and internationally acclaimed lighting consultants, designers and experts who will share their knowledge and expertise on the future trends in the world of lighting. I'm Sapna Srivaswa, Editorial Diplas Magazine, and let's begin with a brief introduction of Real Diplas. Friends, Real Diplas Magazine is part of exchange for media and business world group. The monthly publication is the real estate vertical of the group and was created to cater to the needs of the real estate business. For the past 16 years, Real Diplas has been at the forefront of news and stories influencing the world of real estate. It was also recognized as the best real estate magazine by Narade Co, the governing body of Indian real estate. Apart from our monthly magazine is available as print as well as digital edition. Apart from our monthly magazine, the Real Diplas series of collectors edition coffee table books are premium editions launched once in a year spotlighting prominent personalities, products and brands of the real estate industry. Our recent release is the Real Diplas Super CXO's India's top reality influencers. This is the coffee table book which features Indian Realty's dynamic super CXOs who are transforming the sector through their leadership and vision. Moving on from the publications, Real Diplas Conclave and Exiles awards virtual series features evidence speakers, engaging discussions and lively virtual awards ceremonies, felicitating the top performers in the Indian real estate, prop tech, co-working and building product segments. What's more, under this series we have also taken the initiative to recognize achievers under 40 years of age in the real estate and the event is scheduled very soon on June 26, 2021, where we will be featuring these young talents in the aim to encourage the young leadership across the segments in the real estate sector. Real Diplas also produces various online products and events under its Real Diplas digital connect initiating. Under this umbrella, we have Real Diplas masterclass webinars such as the one we have today where we feature subject matter experts and industry leaders in an insightful and informative conversation on current and relevant topics. We also have the Real Diplas real talk series that features video interviews with influential leaders from various segments of real estate to share their honest views and opinions. Now to be missed every morning, we have the Real Diplas e-newsletter that goes out with latest news, views and opinions from across the realty sector of India and the world. We are also very strong on the social media platforms and that is how we stay connected with our readers, peers and partners and promote our products. So this was a brief snippet of what Real Diplas is all about. And in case you would like to know more about us, do get in touch with our publisher and business head, Ms. Sriptikaria. Coming back to the program of today, let me now welcome Ms. Sudeshna Bukhavadhyayi who is the Vice President for Hammers and Delimited. Ms. Sudeshna, a very warm welcome to you. Thank you. Let me give a brief introduction of Ms. Sudeshna. Ms. Sudeshna has 34 years of extensive global leadership experience in lighting technology, application design, global project management and user research both in India and Asia Pacific region. Ms. Mukhapadhyaya is well exposed to global markets in Middle East, Europe and the US handling several cross-border projects. She also teaches lighting applications at leading institutes in India and is a member in various committees and author of codes, standards, chapters in Bureau of Indian Standards, National Lighting Code, Ishre, Rihar, IGBC and CII Energy Council. She is also a member of the CIETC 342 Internal Commission on Illumination, Vienna and a fellow of the Indian Society of Lighting Engineering. I would request Ms. Mukhapadhyaya to please join me and share her thoughts on the spotlight series that we are doing today. Thank you. Thank you, Safna. I'm very humbled by your introduction of me. Yes, it's been quite a journey for me in the lighting industry. And we are in a very interesting situation now. As I said, it's not a junction but it's the next step in lighting we are all poised to take off. The spotlight series from Havel is a very important platform for us, a very important property for us, where we bring in leading personalities, international personalities to share their perspectives on topics which is going to be the future, which is going to be shaping the future for everyone, users, designers and definitely our own people as well for the users of lighting. So this is a platform where it is a knowledge-sharing platform for us. It's not about only a Havel's product platform but definitely it's a knowledge-sharing platform because we strongly believe with this shared knowledge from international and global leading expert, this is how the industry would grow and we would be able to implement these practices, the global practices, the knowledge, the concepts also in our own country. So yes, I mean, we are very proud to be associated with RealityPlus with this series and this is a monthly webinar for us and I'm sure we are going to, we have a very, very important speaker today. I'm not going to take much time and hand it over to you for his introduction. Thank you, Sudeshnai. Thank you so much. You know, you are right, design is one segment which is constantly evolving and it's a constant process of learning from each other. So let's bring on stage the star of the day. Let me introduce our speaker of today's session, Dr. Kastun Ehrling, founding partner and managing director, Dr. Kastun acts as the global leader for Lake Vizion and all its offices. He received his doctorate in 1997 from the Technical University in Berlin where his doctoral thesis dealt with the use and analysis of daylight in architecture. Kastun has been a regular lecturer at the University of Applied Sciences, Welsma, Germany and his guest lecturer at many other universities throughout Europe and Asia. So let me welcome Dr. Kastun Ehrling, founding partner and managing director, Lake Vizion. Dr. Ehrling, a very warm welcome to you and I hand it over to you now. You are on mute. I'm sorry, just my computer ran out of energy so I had to look for the time. We all are dealing with technical issues in the book. Okay, so I hand it over to you, Dr. Ehrling. Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you very much, Sabna, for having the opportunity to present or to have a talk today about the future of connected lighting systems and I would like to share my screen. So, all right, yeah, I was approached some time ago to share my thoughts about the future of connected lighting systems and so I'm not talking about lighting design but really about trends that we see in the lighting industry and that will certainly dominate the lighting infrastructure in the future because it will become more and more oriented to IoT solutions and to connected lighting systems and so I would like to start with a macro trend analyzes that we did actually some time ago already or well, it's not so long ago, it's only two months ago or one month ago and it's about trends that we see and what does this mean for the consequences for lighting and when we look at several industries, starting with the offices, then we see of course, due to the pandemic, we see a strong shift to home offices. On the other hand, we see an increased need for work space or for space in offices for collaboration, cooperation and for creative processes. So what we believe is that the net space of offices remain constant in the future, but we see less desks and more collaboration space and so of course this has some consequences for lighting and these consequences for lighting are that from our perspective, lighting will become more decorative in the future, lighting will become more flexible and local lighting is required and since we have this move from very strict installations and like you see on the left hand side and very standard installations to more flexible installations to more decorative lighting, we see here in particular, of course, when we talk about refurbishments or refurbishments, we see a strong shift from the light control systems to wireless solutions in the future. Another trend that we see for offices, but not only for offices, that we see a specific operating system for several industries and when you focus here or when we focus here on offices, we will see that in the future, the operating system of offices will not be based on a classic building management system that KNX or others, but it will be based on much more flexible systems because we need to integrate in the future functionalities like desk booking, find my colleague locker access or also I don't know the charger for my for my for my electric car or things like that and this will be integrated in these operation systems for offices but again it can be also a retail specific retail operating systems as specific hotel operating system co-working spaces and all this because this requires or we see a requirement in these specific functions in the future and when we look at the consequences for lighting, we can say that this means we will have much more centers in the lighting network in the future because the lighting network is ideal of course for centers because we can provide electricity and we have lighting everywhere in the building. We see a system architecture in the future which is all IP, respectively we have gateways with a wireless mesh connectivity behind for the lighting controls as well of course you all know Kassambi or M-Wave for instance and they have these mesh IP Bluetooth solutions already and again here due to the required flexibility that we foresee in the future and the change of tenants and of requirements, we also see a lighting shift from the lighting controls to the wireless. When we look at the industry we see a strong shift from KPEX to OPEX so from capital expenses to operational expenses for non-productive assets this means that the industry will spend the money for operation and not for yeah capital expenses so for for lighting so lighting will become a service more and more a service in the future and what are the consequences for lighting when we talk about this when I have a service agreement of course I need to monitor the compliance to the conditions of use so this needs this means I need to monitor the burning hours I need to monitor dim levels temperature and all these things to really make sure that this is exactly to what the contract is about and for the industry we also see of course a strong shift to to wireless solutions this is mainly dominated by the lack of quiet infrastructure in the ceiling when we look to the current situation we see high bay installations with high intensity discharge lamps HDI HID lamps and since they couldn't be dimmed anyway we have no no wired infrastructure here and if I change this to LED solutions in the future then of course we have to have a wireless lighting control solutions here another very important trend in the industry but not only industry also in other industries is the indoor navigation which becomes more and more important in the future and for for the next step in automation and tracking of tracking of goods checking of people checking of of all other components in this industrial process and this can be performed by triangulation of course and this is based on radio frequency or on lighting and in both cases this has a certain impact on the lighting infrastructure because light points carry one thing the infrastructure for radio frequency or it can be also modulated onto the lighting due to the modulation of the light sources we can with this technology enable a very precise indoor infrastructure or indoor positioning yeah indoor positioning when we look at the food retail trend we see that Amazon and others are revolutionizing this offline grocery shopping of course also a trend which we will see not only in food retail but in other retail industries as well and when we look at this we expect a strong shift to the requirements of indoor navigation and also automatic automatic checkout and what are the consequences for lighting here again light points can carry the infrastructure for a tennis or just modulated onto lighting we have a higher quality of lighting spotlights focused on the point of sale because we have a certain competition between offline and online grocery shopping and the lighting will also become the ideal carrier for the sending technology to ensure that when i have this automatic checkout that i really ensure that all yeah all people all goods that are checked out that there are really into the system that are part of the system and that they are here yeah being on the building the next trend that we see in the residential market or residential automation markets that internet giants will take over the home control and we see this of course with with apple and apple's home kit or with also with google and they are moving from this media control into home automation and we believe this might be a disrupting component in the industry we have a very easy connection from our smartphones or tablets to a wireless world due to the bluetooth which is always part of these components or part of part of my tablet or a smartphone we have a very easy commissioning and people are used to do the commissioning and operation with a smartphone or with a and i hand it over to you now you are on mute i'm sorry just my computer run out of energy so okay we all are dealing with technical issues okay so i hand it over to you dr elin thank you very much um yeah thank you very much sefna for having the opportunity to present or to have a talk today about the future of connected lighting systems and i would like to share my screen um so um yeah i was approached sometime ago to to um share my thoughts about the future of connected lighting systems and so i'm not talking about lighting design but really about trends uh that we see in the lighting industry and that will certainly dominate um the lighting infrastructure in the future because it will become more and more oriented to iot solutions and to connected lighting systems and so i would like to start with a with a micro trend analysis that we did actually some time ago already um or well it's not so long ago it's only two months ago or one month ago um and it's about trends that we see and what does this mean for the the consequence for lighting and when we look at several industries um starting with the offices then we see of course um due to the pandemic we see a strong shift to home offices on the other hand we see an increased um need for work space or for space in offices for collaboration cooperation and for creative processes so what we believe is that the net space of offices remain constant in the future but we see less desks and more collaboration space and so of course this has some consequences for lighting and these consequences for lighting are that from our perspective lighting will become more decorative in the future lighting will become more flexible and local lighting is required and since we have this move from from uh very strict installations and like you see on the left hand side and um various yeah standard installations to more flexible installations to more decorative lighting we see here in particular of course we may talk about refurbishments or yeah refurbishments um we see a strong shift to the from the light control systems to wireless solutions in the future another trend that we see for offices but not only for offices um that we see a specific operating system for several industries and when you focus here or when we focus here on offices we will see that in the future um the operating system of offices will not be based on a classic building management system that k and x or others but it will be based on much more flexible systems because we need to integrate in a future um functionalities like desk booking um find my colleague locker access or also um I don't know the charger for my for my for my electric car or things like that and this will be integrated in these um operation systems for offices but again it can be also a retail specific retail operating systems a specific hotel operating system co-working spaces and all this because this requires or we see a requirement in these specific functions in the future and when we look at the consequences for lighting we can say that this means we will have much more centers in the lighting network in the future because the lighting network is ideal of course for centers because we can provide electricity and we have lighting everywhere in the building we see a system architecture in the future which is all IP respectively we have gateways with a wireless mesh connectivity behind for the lighting controls as well of course you're all know kazambi um or m-wave for instance and they have these mesh IP bluetooth um solutions already um and again here due to the required flexibility that we foresee in the future and the change of tenants and the requirements we also see a lighting shift from the lighting controls to be wireless um when we look at the industry we see a strong shift from KPEX to OPEX so from capital expenses to operational expenses for non-productive assets this means that the industry um will spend the money for operation and not for yeah capital uh expenses so for for lighting so lighting will become a service more and more a service in the future um and what are the consequences for lighting when we talk about this when i have the service agreement of course i need to monitor the compliance to the conditions of use so this needs this means i need to monitor the burning house i need to monitor dim levels temperature and all these things to really make sure that this is exactly to what um the contract is about and um for the industry um we also see of course a strong shift to to wireless solutions this is mainly dominated by the lack of quiet infrastructure in the ceiling um when we look to the current situation we see high bay installations with high intensity discharge lamps HDI HID lamps and since they couldn't be dimmed anyway um we have no no wired infrastructure here and if i change this to LED solutions in the future then of course we have to have a wireless lighting control solutions here um another very important trend in the industry but not only industry also in other industries is the indoor navigation which becomes more and more important in the future um and for for the next step in automation and tracking of tracking of goods tracking of people tracking of of all other yeah components in this industrial process and this can be performed by triangulation of course and this is based on radio frequency or on lighting and in both case this has a certain impact on the lighting infrastructure because light points carry one thing the infrastructure for radio frequency or it can be also modulated onto the lighting the the due to the modulation of the light sources we can with this technology um enable a very precise indoor infrastructure or indoor positioning um yeah indoor positioning when we look at the food retail trend um we see that Amazon and others are revolutionizing this offline grocery shopping of course also a trend which um we will see not only in food retail but in other retail um industries as well and when we look at this we expect a strong shift to the requirements of indoor navigation and also automatic automatic checkout and what are the consequences for lighting here again light points can carry the infrastructure for a tennis or just modulated onto lighting we have a higher quality of lighting spotlights focused on the point of sale because we have a certain competition between offline and online grocery shopping um and the lighting will also become the ideal carrier for the sensing technology to ensure that when I have this automatic checkout that I really ensure that all um yeah all people all goods that are checked out that they are really into the system that are part of the system and that they are here um um yeah being on the building um the next trend that we see in the residential market um or residential automation markets that internet giants will take over the home control and we see this of course with with apple and apple's home kit or with also with google and um they are moving from this media control into home automation and we believe this might be a disrupting uh component in the industry um we have a very easy connection from our smartphones or tablets to a wireless world due to the bluetooth which is always part of this components or part of part of my tablet um or smartphone we have a very easy commissioning and people are used to do the commissioning and operation um with a smartphone or with a tablet so yeah again apple's home kit is an example and when you look at apple home kit uh on the internet page you will find many many different applications like lighting hvac or any others and all these can be used in a very easy way for for for consumers because we are used to this technology and we also have an integrated voice control so we believe that also in terms of lighting there might be a disruption which continuously eats its way up into all applications so we start with media controls but we are now at lighting as well and hvac and others but we will we expect that there would be much more disruption also in other industries so we move here again from wired lighting solutions to wireless connected lighting solutions for retail modes um and i think this is a trend which is not only in europe but worldwide we have a a gaining or a growing a growing need and having more entertainment and experience factor because they have to compete against all these online uh shopping um players and so it become more and more relevant to have more this yeah experience entertainment factor that i will see in a more so i'm not only going to a mall because i want to shop i will also go there because i want to experience something new when i go there with my kids um and so from our thoughts we believe that lighting will be much more fast and flexible we see that the entertainment lighting and general writing requires a strong integration and also the scene setting um on demand and remotely and again this meets here that we have a wireless lighting solutions that we expect in the future another trend which goes in the same direction is also the mall connectivity um and this is convenient through technology to make that available for both for the operators and for the consumers and again this is based on technologies that are already introduced so automated payments in non-navigations um are required for this new mall connectivity and for this convenience that i can provide to my customers and clients and and we also certainly will see much more sensors um giving information about people flow i'm giving information about room conditions and also react of course on on people flow react on room conditions in terms of energy efficiency or sustainability and again here we see the requirement for a an integration of lots of sensors in the lighting infrastructure it will not preliminary have a an impact on the lighting but on the lighting infrastructure again this is really important and the last trend that i would like to talk about is hospitality we see for the hospitality it's somehow the same thing we see extended functions and intelligence which is required why is it required because we believe and we see this also in our projects that we are working on that a hotel becomes more and more a home office like environments with co-working spaces and other components which can be individualized on my personal preference and so this means that um the room control is not only a room control with my smartphone with my tablet anymore i certainly can also book amenities or i can i can have my specific settings for this room and maybe i can take these settings as my personal settings to the next hotel of the same brand and when i go there i can i can start or automatically is is is the right setting started then when i enter the room the first time and maybe the movie is is is starting at the right timing where i stopped it last time and certainly also we will see things like indoor navigation monitoring of room quality in all these parameters and this meets here as well lighting is a idle character a carrier for for sensors to provide all these data because these data are really required and another trend that we see in hospitality is the need for sustainable mega structures we expect to have 75 percent of the world's population living in cities by 2025 and so we are talking about six billion people maybe um and there are already the largest i think the largest currently the largest hotel is in in malaysia with 7500 keys this one here is under construction solid array where it's more than 10 000 keys so we will see one structure one building one hotel where we have at the same time 25 30 000 people which is for german uh relations at least a a reasonable city um and of course energy efficiency and sustainability is really important when we talk about these mega structures and there will be the driver for smart technologies as well and this of course includes lighting so facility services are on demand lighting will be on demand um also yeah many other room parameters again and this is all based on a center grid and this center grid will certainly be part of the lighting infrastructure and finally coming to global trends coming to two global trends the first of all i would say is its energy efficiency and the latest local and global commitments to person beyond this will increase the demand for connected and efficient solution this is no doubt so we will have lighting on demand solutions so according to requirements in terms of lux levels or others according to presence to daylight income and we believe this will become mandatory in commercial developments and of course lighting is not all um at the end of the day we can save much more energy when we include hrex for instance or other services as well so we will see multiple sensors that are required for the optimized operation of buildings and they will be again integrated in the lighting infrastructure and the next and the last trend that we see is sustainability we see a growing sensibility among also regulations in the first world societies towards a more conscious consumption behavior and what we found out that the environmental social governance becomes really relevant we see that the appropriateness of light and lighting solutions increasingly considered against the background of sustainability this is a project that we are currently working on in Antwerp and in Belgium this is our concept and it finally all the facade lighting was cancelled by the authorities and this not only by energy efficiency reasons but also due to insects and many other reasons so we have of course some landscape lighting for security reasons and also for the beautification of this building or of this of this development that the facade lighting is completely cancelled and the cradle to cradle approach is certainly also something that becomes more and more significant in the future also for lighting and lighting controls equipment this is a project that we are currently all it's under construction in Düsseldorf in Germany it's a wood building and this is a cradle to cradle project and it was a challenge so to find cradle to cradle solutions and lighting as well but we believe this will become a trend in the future due to this growing sensibility um so when I summarize the applications for for this lighting control for model lighting control systems we see as a strong need for support of energy efficiency we see a flexible inventions in and the monitoring of lighting we see easy commissioning and control via apps and these smartphones or tablets then acts as an IP gateway wireless solutions are required in many cases and the lighting infrastructure will become the backbone of a sensor grid and two slides two more slides about the lighting control market um to give an idea of what this means all these trends means in the future we see based on a study by Merkel and see us from November 2020 we see um an expected growth of smart lighting and control systems of about 14 percent per year until 2026 and this is this is a strong growth and within this growth we see that software applications wireless controllers gateways are showing a relatively strong growth in this overall market so we see this trend here to become more and more digital of course and what are the drivers for the strong growth we see basically four points the control about energy cost or energy cost consumption automation and integration of sensors we see that wireless technology has become an integral part of our daily life and so we are very much used to it and smartphones enable the full functionality for the end users this is certainly something which is really driving the market the amount of intelligent lighting controls because smart lighting is increasing in a tremendous way because LEDs can do so much things and innovations in smart home technology are with a growing number of smart homes and smart cities also driving this market very strongly but however there's no common standard available at the moment so this becomes more and more complicated certainly in the future we see on the other hand a strong demand for multi-vendor solutions so when we're just looking at companies like yeah like kassami for instance kassami is focused on a lighting that's fine but to have all these potential to use all the potential that we see and the automation in iot world of buildings this is certainly not enough so we see we will see in the future the needs of even much more stronger need for an integration of different technologies and on the other hand we see still that there is no common protocol for iot components there is a trend to mqtt servers and there's a trend to jason protocol which then can be the basis for interoperability between different components but this is not the case at the moment however software-enabled lighting controls enabled by the smart lighting and internet of things evolution will be a game chain in the world of lighting and we believe it will ultimately transform the industry thank you so much this was my brief presentation about these thoughts about the future of of lighting of connected lighting solutions and what all these changes in different industries will mean for lighting and what does this mean for the requirements on lighting solutions and connected lighting solutions. I can hear you're muted is that now? Yes i was on mute sorry for that so but those were some very interesting points that you highlighted in the presentation can we now also have Ms Sudeshna Mukhopad they are joining us now. Ms Sudeshna you know you had that presentation you had a look at it what do you have to say you know like Dr Elling just mentioned in his presentation that software-enabled lighting controls are the future now convenience and on-demand lighting energy efficiency are the drivers for these lighting systems what do you have to say? So i mean that's a trend and i think it's let's not deny that i mean we can't be in a state of denial i think it's a question of adoption the adoption levels for all new technology will be little different in different countries i mean if i take the indian perspective specifically it has been so far very very energy efficiency driven solution right it's a large country you have a metro city semi urban rural i think it is important for the government i mean you know to really focus on demand side management quite a lot and that's what it has been doing in the last few years with various government policies and moving on to led i think now that that led adoption has really reached almost a matured level in at least in the urban and what we call about the class p cities i think it is now the next steps into adoption of this connected lighting that all the industry players the lighting industry are gearing up for it so it also very much into the space as well and while we have seen quite a few installations of let's say more smart lighting solutions where it is more driven into the lighting part of it there are already pilots in terms of connected lighting which is happening in india as well you know where lighting is talking to other services they're connected to other services so that the customer and the users in different perspective experience light in a different way and of course different levels of mi is also gets generated yes so this is definitely the future it would be interesting also to hear from dr karsten on you know how does the connected lighting bit of it you know which is very technology driven also weave into you know lighting design practices to that matter you know will there be conflicts or do you think this will be a seamless integration in terms of you know meeting the lighting design requirements ambience you know human well-being and getting driven by technology or it's it's just a very synergistic or a complementary effort well i believe that we will i mean the the functionality of lighting is how to use lighting or how to also use how to adapt lighting to certain applications and requirements is something that can be done let's say with the daily solution nowadays it's quite easy you can specify a daily solution and you can you can fulfill many requirements it's easy to integrate a center for daylight for presence or for this as well and we also see a trend of course that much more functionality is integrated in the device itself so we see that much more functionalities integrated in the luminaries say when we talk about human-centric lighting these these controllers are part of the luminaries already so we will see a shift i believe from the control system in some ways in some sense into the luminaire already because we have smart lighting luminaries they can provide as kind of this edge technology approach they have some some knowledge already in or some functionality i think for us as a lighting designer the problem is that currently that dali is really a standard that we can rely on and when we look at connected lighting systems would have a much more connectivity with other buildings which requires a higher connectivity with other building services and we look at modern solutions like kassami we will see that this is this is still on its way it's not really where we want to have it so we can we have of course projects where we specified kassami solutions and this works quite well but it's just a lighting solution it's not connected to any other building services and when we look into the future and we want to really we want to really use all the potential of connected lighting systems then i believe this is we are on the way but it will take another several years until we really see this full integration which is also easy to manage for us i mean there's one other thing i believe we have been working here we are working here in germany or also in an asia or on some high-end projects and what we see is that due to the fact that sensors will be an integrated part of the lighting infrastructure sometimes the sensor specificator some sensor specifier will take the control about the luminaire and not the lighting designer anymore and this is something that we see in the future potentially that we as a lighting designer are still focusing on the entrance lobby and on the facade but the conventional let's say the office lighting all these all downloads all corridors and everything which needs to have a sensor integrated it's not us who's specifying this anymore but it's the building technology company who's specifying this and so there is potentially a shift in our work in the future. Dr. Kastur, you also spoke about lighting as a service you know which is coming into play especially for the professional services you also mentioned some benefits that it has in terms of CAPEX you know what the companies are looking at but what are the challenges associated with that? The challenges for this it's good it's a big trend it's a big trend in particular for industries where you have not where the requirements are really only based on functionality I think this is a well the challenges well let's put it the other way I there was in my in my presentation there was one image which and this was Lichtmiete it's a german brand it's a deutsche Lichtmiete it's german light rent or I don't know are you are you translate this and it's actually the one of the strongest growing companies in the lighting industry in Germany currently and I believe that we will see this as a trend in the future that other companies have to have this business model as well they'll have to adapt to this market because companies are not willing to spend let's say 80 euros a square meter for the lighting installation when they can also rent this for let's say 15 euros a year because they can save all the money that they're saving they can put into operational costs and for for the company growth or other terms and I believe that this would be a strong or it is already a very strong trend that we see in in Germany and I believe you will also see this in other companies as well or in other countries but when we look at this model light as a service we need to monitor many many many parameters of the lighting as well and this also has an impact and of course on the sensors which are required on the on the connected lighting infrastructure and it also has an impact on us as a lighting designer because then we are not the guys who are specifying the lighting because this comes with the company already because they are providing the service as well that's right so Desha what you have to say you know given the Indian scenario infrastructure cost connectivity how does that come in play for you know connected lighting system yeah I mean you know Dr. Karsten very well I mean I think adequately explain that connected lighting is just not lighting alone right it has its dependency on other infrastructure as well so it needs to grow together I mean it's not about only lighting manufacturer making a light fitting integrated with the you know with sensors it's not standalone anymore which we were probably more used to just day night sensing if we need the device to talk to each other I mean you know the along with the building other services infrastructure the communication infrastructure the wireless infrastructure I mean they all need to be more robust to grow have standardization I think that is going to be one very important thing in terms of facilitating adoption so including security and other elements I mean security I talked about you know data security because all countries will be quite you know will have their own paranoia about it so I think all of these needs to be integrated and woven together and I think that is what it makes it the wild while we talk about it as a you know a destructive or a game changer is it is not the lighting industry alone or a designer alone there are other players with different skill sets and competencies and technologies coming in and it's a much larger space where we will now have to work on so yes of course I mean it is important so I think we've been talking in India quite a few about smart cities right at the I mean we've made we've had a lot of seminars conferences but the adoption and implementation is not at the same speed of you know the other activities and I think the IT or the what you can say the communication infrastructure is one of the impediments so that needs to be robust reliable that's very important affordable definitely and you know expandable as well so I think if the Indian you know the infrastructure the telecom or the communication industry have to also play a big role in terms of IoT lighting that's right scalability cost effectiveness as well as the robustness of the infrastructure that that are the most important factors Ms. Mukhopadhyay just mentioned Ms. Mukhopadhyay you also mentioned about the security so Dr. Castan let me go to you you know in terms of cyber threats you know the data privacy and especially if we are talking about lighting as a service so how do we you know take care of that in this is there this is a good topic yeah um I know it's an topic in itself you know when I mentioned that we believe we have spoken to many stakeholders in this during this this analysis as well and actually it was not mentioned as a very important issue however and I mean when we have an all IP infrastructure and this all IP infrastructure is wired then of course there's always the cloud connection and there's a certain certain way to to enter then this this the building system or the building management control system um well it's it's difficult for you to to answer I mean I do my online banking you know and so I wonder when I do my online bank with my mobile or with my my tablet why shouldn't I control my life with my mobile or my tablet is this really a big issue of course the building infrastructure will become more and more crucial in the future and maybe it is an issue um I have no clue it's not my topic I don't know I will see what happens there probably next time we'll have some cyber expert also on our panel you know to talk about this session because as both our experts have mentioned lighting designers now not just the domain of lighting designers but there are not many other players and stakeholders now who are part of this entire designing you know apart from new buildings you know what about retrofitting the existing commercial building with connector systems so this goes to both of you Dr. Castle what are the challenges if you are talking about retrofitting the buildings with new systems and then Sudejna I'll come to you for the Indians in Ireland Dr. Castle yeah if you're well I talk about light controls then of course this is something which is really pushing to the wireless solution and when we talk about wireless mesh solutions we have a satellite solution which works pretty well in most buildings however the more we see retrofitting by wireless by a bluetooth mesh solution for instance we will see more and more also problems on this side because sometimes I don't know the wall is is is to think that this mess connection doesn't work anymore but I think it will it will give a strong push to wireless solutions when we talk about retro fittings okay wireless solutions are the answer for retrofitting yeah I think I mean the Dr. Kirsten of course touched upon it I mean if you take the Indian scenario and it's not also for existing buildings I'm going to touch upon that but it's an the wireless solutions will also become a little bit of an issue in the even new construction probably the design layout construction methods need to change because in India we have usually brick walls and most you know in many cases specifically in the old buildings and that is becoming a little bit of an impediment with the you know the current systems which you have in terms of connectivity but yes if you talk about let's say intranet type of solutions where do you have you know the local controls I think for easy adoption the wireless system is the easiest to go in for you know retrofitting into connected lighting but there are also providers of hybrid solutions so if you already have a Dali network you know there are solution providers which have interface with a wired solution as well so it's a wireless and the wireless solution in the Indian scenario with my personal opinion it's of course not you know it's not a policy which I'm mentioning that in the coming few years we will see a hybrid solution which will slowly you know transgress into the wireless solutions you know I think there will be work on both sides in terms of layout design you know materials being used and at the same time you know probably the wireless solutions which we have you know in the transformers the routers and everything probably they will get upgraded you know and of course there is a technology limitations everywhere but probably we will be able to address the issues of signal attenuation in corners or around the bands or through spaces you know from the you know the Wi-Fi service providers as well so yes I think it will be hybrid solutions to start with we've already seen wireless adoption happening in India so it's not that you don't have a reference installation but the large-scale adoption will probably take time if you have you know very large buildings and they need to adopt immediately I'm talking about retrofit the new buildings you can always design around it will be probably hybrid and moving on to wireless. I completely agree and maybe I can add one thing that Kasami for instance they have one million knots on the market now and one million knots is at that time a high up market penetration that Dali has had at the same time so this and it is a wireless solution so we will certainly see a trend but I completely agree all these disrupting industries they always start with the hybrid in the beginning like what we see for electric cars and everything they have a fuel engine and an electric engine and now we have more and more fuel electric engine but this is the normal way or any adoption yeah exactly earlier adapter yeah but it's yeah Kasami is more than one million knots already so it's a strong it's a strong growth there. Fantastic you know also like both of our speakers mentioned technology is constantly evolving yeah you know constantly upgrading to new systems and techs. Ms Mukupadri, do you think lack of standardization what you spoke about and interoperability between you know devices from various companies now how do we tackle that kind of a situation? I think it was a much major issue even four or five years ago but I do know even if you take bluetooth as a mesh platform there is already interoperability being talked about so there are already systems available where probably you know you have a common stack and you build on that stack so you know products from the same manufacturer different manufacturers they will be able to talk to each other so yes this is evolving so everything probably will not happen together at the same time but the good part of it you know the providers of such technologies which is beyond the lighting manufacturers right I'm talking about the communication chip over here they had they have acknowledged this is an issue so I I guess the standards interoperability standards these are all you know the the special interest groups right so Wi-Fi has SIG bluetooth mesh as their own SIGs where there are representations from different manufacturers as well including lighting manufacturers now they are forming up you know they are key members of such groups so these are being addressed I mean even Dali-Dali protocol I mean it took a few years to get everyone at the same platform you know I remember in the early years you know there were different protocols even within brands you know I mean it wasn't the same thing and then it was standardized so give it a couple of years and I think but it will be addressed but it is an important issue it is a very important issue I completely agree to this as well because we see this that bluetooth become there are different there's this M-ways on the market with bluetooth and there's Kasami with bluetooth and they all have their own stack but it will certainly come together because these multi-vendor solutions are really required in the market and we see that all the companies are in this bluetooth world now from the lighting industry but it will take some time until this really works together yeah it's but this is again normal when it starts in your industry in terms of scalability you know if you have devices from various manufacturers how do you look at the scalability from the consumer point of view well I think the scalability I mean when well this is a good question I mean for the home automation we see that with my iPhone or with any other mobile phones or tablets we can already integrate lots of components and then they have my mobile and my mobile my smartphone is actually my ip gateway and I have no clue how many components are I'm able to connect with this one but it's it starts from the some automation where we have rather small installations but I believe it will grow into growth into into professional applications as well so we will see the technologies there already and I think it's just a question of time and I think this it's scalable it will be in the future okay so so future looks bright things are you know the systems are refining we are making progress Dr. Karsten one question to you how do you perceive the future of IoT connected public lighting infrastructure you know especially you know in smart cities if you're talking about yeah yeah um good question I mean I think that smart cities and exterior lighting street lighting this will be one of the drives of these IoT solutions in the future and it will probably become all IP so it's maybe not a wired or a mesh solution anymore but it will be g5 as a protocol and all components will be directly being part of the internet in the future straight away every Lumia every single Lumina and it can also have integrated sensors for presence or for other daylight and this will be straight into a cloud and then as an operator I can see what is my energy consumption and can I can I can I adjust my settings or whatever it will be a one of the biggest drivers of IP of IoT solutions for lighting applications I believe okay Ms. Mukobade how do you see that you know from buildings from you know large pickup spaces coming into the public domain IoT connected systems for public infrastructure yeah I think I mean it is obvious it has to happen and it is already happening in fact in India I think the adoption probably maybe a little earlier in the outdoor spaces because if you talk about the smart lighting solutions and I mean I can give a reference of habits they've done you know very large projects in New Delhi you know Faridabad you know which is not only dimming solutions color tunable solutions depending on the time of the day weather seasonal you know so these solutions are already there in the market and they're already you know there are large corporations and municipalities who are adopting it so from there to moving into a complete IP based solutions like Faridabad I mean of course Havels have their own systems so it's not an off-the-shelf system so that's their own smart system so it is a completely IP system you know so each luminaire can be controlled to that extent so yes because since the public and the smart cities is very high on the government agenda the others are subsets you know smart buildings smart homes are all subsets of the smart city umbrella let me put it that way you know all other service areas so I do think the adoption there would be there there are a lot of large corporations who have already started adapting the lighting solutions the the local manufacturers have a big lead into it in terms of providing the solutions over there because it's very high in the government agenda as well okay uh yeah I'm sure it's a very organic development from smart buildings we started with smart homes now smart buildings smart offices retails and hospitality to now smart cities so that was a very you know Dr. Gasser any last minute addition that you would like to make on the future of connected lighting no I think connected light well I think lighting will really play a major role in the future when it comes to the automation and optimization of buildings due to this availability of energy in the ceiling which covers all and every single part of the building so lighting will be the carrier in the future of all these sensors and actors as well so we have to adapt from our perspective as a lighting designer or as a company as a lighting supplier we have to have this in our thoughts and we have to integrate all these services in the future and somehow probably have to fight for our right to play in this market it will become difficult maybe become because other players will try to move into this market as well from a different perspective you know from this automation sensor IOT world so we have to fight for our place okay okay last words from you miss Mokopat there yeah I think as you mentioned that you know lighting is going to be important building infrastructure it's just not going to be you know provider for only visual comfort is that if they will become hygiene factors you know we realize that with the advent of LED energy efficiency became a hygiene factor today in any design nobody is scrutinizing so much in terms of you know what's the connected load because we know that it is coming down rapidly and it's you know sort of stabilizing it's not good to go beyond it so this is what the next so lighting will become a very very important infrastructure you know a building infrastructure a city infrastructure and would be taken probably in more seriousness you know than ever before but as dr. caston says that you know it is probably going to be a very interesting thing to happen that you know who will dominate the space but I do really believe very strongly that it would be the lighting people who will dominate the space as we you know we need to embrace new technologies so as long as we are able to do that and that's what we are doing it it is going to be an integrated our wholesome solution from the lighting industry so connected yes is going to be the next future you're already there it's a question of facilitating adoption you know and I think such sessions like this also create awareness from international global experts I think the users the builders will have more confidence in terms of you know adopting and accepting this new technology and platforms that's right that's right in fact in the present scenario we have already seen that now that we have been spending more time inside you know so lighting has become one area that now we are taking it very seriously and as you rightly mentioned that lighting designers are going to be the people driving the entire you know chain of lighting systems because wellness is now a very big factor you know especially through lighting so thank you so much thanks Dr. Karsten Elling and Mr. Deshna Mukhopadhyay for sharing your views and for answering the audience questions I'm sure our viewers had some very valuable takeaways from today's session and also a special thanks to Havas India for presenting this knowledge as Ms. Mukhopadhyay rightly said this is an awareness you know that we are creating among our consumers among the people who are building spaces and we are learning from our global compatriots you know what they are doing in their space so you know this is all for the benefit of the Indian design fraternity and you know let us also thank our awesome audience who have been here sharing their time and they share their queries as well which we you know put up to our speakers so thanks viewers for you know being here with us keep watching this space as we bring to you very soon yet another acclaimed design expert to share with us more about the magical world of lighting but till then thanks Dr. Karsten for being here with us sharing your very expert views with us thanks to Deshna for being here with us sharing your valuable views with us till then we meet take care and goodbye thank you have a great day bye