 All right, welcome. It's the 22nd of November. This is documentation office hours. Let's see, Meg, it's just you and me for right now. So we'll miss that. I've got news from Plugins Development. 3.322, change log, 2.322, 2.319.1 upgrade guide and change log triage team and Plugin Installation Manager, latest news. Any other topics? Well, if we have time, I'd like to discuss managing Jenkins and the OPR, et cetera. Good, okay. So let's put that one in. The others can go pretty fast. Well, some of them will be slow, others very fast. So we'll do what we can. Okay, sounds good. Let's put that one third here because the triage team and the Plugin Installation Manager stuff will wait. Okay, well, this can wait too. So we'll, we can do it, we can make sure that we leave. How much time do we need for triage team and Plugin Installation Manager? At most five minutes. Okay, I'll give a call at 755 of your time. Okay, great. All right. And we'll just stop whatever we're talking about and do those. Excellent, okay. So latest news from the world of plugins.jankins.io, Gavin is investigating other generation techniques and it may allow links to be embedded inside the page for GitHub, mark down. Okay, what sort of person is Gavin? Do I send him beer or chocolates or what? I do not know, we'll have to ask him. He's been the very capable and kind and very, very talented developer of plugins.jankins.io. Okay, good. Well, what you can tell him is if he needs any scribal services for what he's doing, I'll be happy to contribute. Well, thank you. That's very great. I will certainly pass it along. Gavin is also a Jenkins governing board officer. Oh, okay. All right, next piece then was the 2.322 change log. All right. So here, let's just go ahead and look at it. Okay, so here's what we've, oops, here's no wrong. Here's what we've got as changes. Make it big enough to read. Okay. Okay. So this one, we'll have to move later after the release, because the ordering. And you wanted to put that, you wanted to note that in the agenda now. You said that. Oh, that's right. Yes, so changes. So move the developer topic to the end. End of the change log. Okay, got it. Good. And then we've got an RFE, add descriptions to administrative monitors. And I like this one. So Daniel's comment was add descriptions or not. It could be easily considered too minor. And I thought, I personally like this poll request a lot and would like it to be in, but let's test with you, Meg. So here, let's look at how he provided a very nice, if I remember right, he gave us a, there it is, a screenshot that shows how it looks. No, no, I do. Oh, yes, here it is screenshot. I have to expand it. So this is how it looks. Now, if I look at the current version on a real Jenkins, on a running Jenkins instance, this is enabled administrative monitors. Okay, so we'll click there. So remember this layout where it's got a bowl, a larger text thing immediately to the, to the right of the checkbox. Some labels that highlight the, the, a specific tag for a thing, in this case, security. And then a small description beneath it. Now let's look for administrative monitors. Here we go. When I click this, here's what the current looks like. So we have that, but nothing, oh, definitely an improvement. I like this very much, yes. Yeah, me too. So for me, this is an easy yes, absolutely we should say it because knowing what cyclic dependency checker means or cyclic dependencies detector, that's really nice. Or right. Okay, good. So we agree. And so what we need to do is we need to change that description so that it says edit. Okay, edit. Come on, where is it? My scrolly thing, upgrade guidelines. No, here we go, add descriptions. Yes. Okay, now prepositional phrase positioning, add descriptions to the, or should it be add descriptions of built-in? Yeah, of built-in, of all built-in administrative, actually we don't need to say at all, really don't figure that out. It's too many, yeah, of built-in to the global configuration, or let's see. Add descriptions of built-in administrative alerts to the global configuration. Now what's so that allows disabled on them? It's trying to say that there's a checkbox. But that's already there, right? Or is that? Or is it selection page? So here's how it looks when I check and uncheck, that's what he means by the enable, disable. So that's not a new feature, the checkbox is not a new feature. The checkbox is definitely not. Yeah. I think this is good, and we've added the descriptions. I think that's good enough period at the end. Okay, like that? Yeah. All right. I mean, we never really talked about what the criteria are. I've wondered some of the others that we've decided not to put in there because there's two things, one is obviously if users really need to know about this, but the other is if you're the sort that looks at the change log every time, it's nice to see that every week things are being improved. Right, right. I think we keep discussing it and we strike compromises when we see things like this. This one for me feels like a very good choice to include. All right, okay, so I'm gonna update and we'll press the do it again button a little later. Okay, so we've been through that one. Now the next, the next is use new styles for more tables. And it's got a multi-line comment here. So let's go ahead with that one. Okay, so, okay, so what he was modifying is the old way of looking at it. Oh, no, this is the new way. Now with the current UI, notice the rounded corners here and the font, et cetera. So, and all uppercase here instead of, if I look at the same thing in the current, it looks like this. Okay, notice that compared to this. Uh-huh. So, so the- Purely aesthetic, no content, but yes, nice. What's that? Purely aesthetic. Yes, yes, it is. But again, that's something, you know, constant improvement. Right, this is very much trying to, the continued effort to improve the look of the user interface. Absolutely. Now, can we characterize what's affected by this PR, some other better way than just more tables? Yeah, so that- I think it's in a certain- Go ahead. The tables in the such and such modular. Yeah, so let's go look at the text here because the text gives us some of that already. Oops, wrong. Okay, so the text says modernized system info site and log recorder site. Ah. Okay, so, and this has two changelog entries because it's actually fixing a bug in addition. So this one- Okay. And that's why this is, has two bullets there. But the problem is the automatic generator doesn't really have support for two bullets. So I think this one will just have to fix afterwards. And now it means we got to go find the bug that was fixed by this. Where is it? Is it mentioned here? I saw the string PR spring, nice and please. Oops, just a minute. Let's keep looking. Maybe we can find it. Nope. Okay, so I'll have to go looking for it separately. So this is one where what we really need to do is split this into two. Or could those, can we combine those? Let's see. This is all, it's a system info site and log recorder site. Yeah, and I would use the word page rather than site. Site, okay, yeah. Or we could, can we say system info and log recorder pages? Oh yes, yes, very good, even better. Good, okay. Now modernize. Yeah, it's using British spelling like Jan has used elsewhere. Right, I'm not complaining about that. But I'm thinking, okay, well, let's leave it. I was thinking about trying to do something out more, but okay, let's see. Modernize system info recorder pages by, let's, well, he said something about the table, applying new table. Right, let's take a look at that. So it works. And I'm thinking about making it comma, display, full name. You know, can we make this into one? Oh, see for me, I wouldn't make it into one. Okay, you're gonna wanna do that. Well, the reason I wouldn't make this, this one is actually a bug fix. Okay. And it needs a regression since two dot XXX. Okay. Because what happened was we, and now I'll have to go find it. Let me go see if I can locate it because it was full security realm. Okay. So I'll have to go looking for it separately. It, this definitely was previously showing. Okay. Showing, well, let's go look at it. So it's, if we look at manage Jenkins and manage users, mark weight here is the user ID, not the user name. If we edit that thing, you'll see that the name should be mark weight, mark space weight. And so it's, we regressed, we switched. Now it's stating it correctly. It's telling us it's showing user ID, but it previously was showing user name. Okay. Gotcha. All right. So, so then what was the actual title of the PR? That was where he had something about the table or something. Okay. The use new style for more tables here. Let me save that. Use new style for more tables was the title. So rather than modernize, should we just say use new style for those two pages? Yeah, although the reason I was leaving it modernize is because the word modernize has been used in several other pull requests in the same theme. Okay. Then that works and it's cherished. Yeah. That was my thought was, okay, when we're doing those improvements. So I'm prone, I think just to let it sit for right now. And then I've got to go find that one. Let me make a note. Okay. Split, which one is it 5925 into two? Two, find the issue ID for the user ID instead of username. That'll, you'll know what that means. Yeah, that's, so are you okay if we go with that? Or is there something? Absolutely, absolutely. So we'll hold that one. So now the next one then is 5919 missing icon in the dashboard view. Settings, setting icon shows in the dropdown menu. Okay, let's see. Whoops, I made a mistake. Okay. So the fix here is that this configure system with the gear icon on the left is in the in the current version broken. So if I, if I go here, click this dropdown, click this. Whoops, too fast. Click this dropdown here. Notice as I hover there, there's a broken icon. I see, yes. Okay. So this is fixing that. Right. Now the question is, how should we phrase it? Setting icon shows in the dropdown menu. Is again, visible in the dropdown menu. So the setting it's using is configure system. So maybe the word setting is a mistake as well. Yeah. Yeah. Display icon for configure system. Ooh, yes, yes. Okay, there we go. You said it brilliantly. Okay. Period. That's good. I like. Good enough? Yep. Okay. All right. And then the others are skipped. And as I look at those, yes, those are all reasonable skips. So you're okay with where we're at there? I am. Great. So let's do this magical thing of regenerate the, regenerate the changelog. Run it. Okay, it's running. Great. Next topic then. So we've been through 2.322 changelog. The next one is the 2.319.1 upgrade guide and changelog. Okay. Let me get a copy of this first. So the one that I want feedback on, Tim gave me some good feedback here on, hey, this thing has some pieces that are too verbose. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to increase the size of this one. Is that legible for you, Nick? It is, yes. Okay. Good. So Tim's concern is that there are four entries here under notable changes since 2.303 roughly midscreen. There are four entries for what is fundamentally one conceptual change. And as you look at the text there, you can probably see why it's four separate entries, but his recommendation was, hey, should we first consider making this third entry add the system property, something or other, put that into the upgrade guide, not in the changelog, because upgrade guide is probably the more detailed location for that. And then we could link from here to the upgrade guide. So that would remove one of the four bullets. He then suggested combine or remove the warn about the use of the master in label expression. And then the idea was, could we combine, could you and I get phrasing that combines the top two into a single thing? And what I had started a draft of it down here in the text. And this, okay, yeah. So his concern is this one, talking about adding code in a changelog is commenting on this one. The second one is like, hey, that's, the phrasing is weak, right? That's, of course, we're adding code. We could put that on every single entry. Meg, are you still there? I may have lost you. No, no, I'm here. Oh, good, okay. I choked on my Diet Coke, so I muted myself. And then kept talking. So this, do we have a blog about the building node? We have that blog explaining the terminology change. We do, yeah. Well, we've got, not only do we have, not only do we have a blog for it, we also have a page on Jenkins.io for it, dedicated to it. What I was thinking about for the, is that these could just say, we implemented the terminology change. And is building node in part of the terminology change or is that a separate? It is, but, well, it is, but I want to be sure that we mentioned the specific term here, built in node, as part of this, because they need to understand. And this must be tight, should use the label built dash in, and this link to the built in node name label migration thing is maybe that should be a link to the upgrade guide. So what I did, just so you're clear, what I did here is here's the upgrade guide. In the upgrade guide, I copied almost all of that article into the upgrade guide because I thought, you know what, they need to read it from the upgrade guide. Right, right. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna, I think we'll be more successful if we'd start the editing. So I'm gonna bring up my editor and let's do the editing. Okay, so because. Can we do something like upfront implement a lot of the stuff from the terminology change and the build in those, you know, those links that you've got to those documents, including and then do a bullet list of these individual ones. Oh, interesting idea. Okay, let's try that. You know, it's like the rule, you know, that makes it a smaller list of stuff, but we still get the details. Yeah. Because I can't say that all terminology is fixed yet. It's just doing some of it. You're certainly correct that. But none of these are the point. These are part of a bigger effort, right? They are. So we talk about the bigger effort and say this much was implemented in this release. Yeah, see, for me, I really like, okay, notice this one. This is pull request five, four, two, five. This one is also pull request five, four, two, five. So in the same pull request, I think we could reasonably combine these. And now let's take include the reference and that doesn't need to be fully qualified like that. And the question is, should it be this 2.30? So this is 2.319. So now that's the wrong hyperlink. Okay, back to what I was trying to say before I got interrupted doing those edits, I think we could move this up here and collapse out this thing entirely. And that's, now we've got to find the phrasing, okay? Replace the term master with controller. Now you had suggested something about, oops. Now, what component is that because it's not done? This is not the entire Jenkins, right? It's some part of it. Yes, well, so with controller. Okay, that's a good question. Replace the term master with controller for the main Jenkins application. So here it is for the main Jenkins application. So it don't even need to parenthesize it. Okay, does that, what is that? I mean, where am I going to see? Does that mean in the manage nodes page? It does. Yeah. So, well, so what else? So let's, let's go look at it. That's very good. So here's, I want to know what pages I think. Bring up this one. It's this one right here. So here is 2.2. 2.319.1 pre-release. And so places where we would see, let's make it big enough to read. Okay. So for example, when I look at the list of executors, you see this one right here, right? That on an earlier version would have said, in fact here, let's bring up the earlier version. Let's look at ci.jankins.io. So on ci.jankins.io, I could not have fat fingers. If we look at. The agents. You see master here. And here it's called built. Okay. Okay. So that's, and then when I edit that thing. I see. Okay. Here are the jobs tied to it. When I edit this thing. No jobs tied to it. That's healthy. If I want to build something on this note, that's an anti-pattern, but let's say I have some very specific reason why I want to, like in my case here, there are some things that have to be executed on the controller. And. And in order to do that, I must use the label built dash in rather than the label master. Right. Okay. That's what I want to know in the upgrade guide. Right. And that's, and that's actually in the upgrade guide. Telling them, and then there is this add the system property. That, that allows. Yeah. In fact, here's another good example. Notice, do you see this URL? Sorry. Sorry that font is so sign. Notice it's got built dash in here. It's got master. All right. So, so there've been a number of changes like that. Wherever it's referring to the node that is on the controller itself. It now says built in instead of calling a master. Right. Now, is this PR, is that where it all, is that all the action? Is it on that note manage nodes page? Are there other pages in the nerve? No, then there is. Then there is in addition. A setting which I don't know how to show it to you. What there is, is there's a setting that where the, that allows you to migrate from master. So from master like this to built in note like this. So there's a, there's a migrate button. And that migrate button is described here as well. Add basically it's add a, add a migration. Or what it really does is there's now a button or a link that will perform that will migrate you from using master as your, the name of the node on your controller to using that. That'd be good for me. That sounds like better phrasing to me. Yeah. So let's, let's, I don't care about the code. Right. Right. And that's, that's right. I think, I think you're right. So, okay. Replace the term master for the main Jenkins application with controller or built in node in user interface and strings and documentation. I'm going to take out the as appropriate. Yeah. Now allow, how about the, let's try a new phrasing. Okay. Now allow administrators to. Migrate from to, no, to how, okay. See, no, notice here's the, I'm going to break this line. This part right here, Meg, only after explicit migration, but is the crucial thing. Okay. Administrate. So it's somehow, I somehow what Daniel is trying to communicate is, this change only happens if the user has performed this, it has intentionally performed this migration. Okay. So on an existing somewhere, he says on a new system, this is going to happen when you install, but existing system, it's going to stay master unless you explicitly change it. Right. Right. Maybe, maybe that's how we should. Existing installations will not. Automatically. Change the node name and label of the, of the built in node. Change the node name of the built in of the, the node name and label of the built in node. Unless. Or until. An administrator explicitly. My performs the migration or, or how do we say it? I don't remember what the UI action is because I, I. Well, actually, let's. Hey, there is no excuse for this. This is just code. Let's go get a computer and we're going to watch it. Do you mind if I take the time to do this? Not at all. Not at all. And another question. Is this only on the UI? Would this affect my Jcast files? Yeah. That's as far as I know, it does not affect Jcast files. Good, good question. All right. So we're going to do a, or is it so I have to click on the UI or. Edit my Jcast file to implement it. Right. So I'm going to make this 2.303. And now. Just a minute. Look at that file downloaded. So this explains what Daniel's been doing rather than look at my security documentation. Oh, Daniel's been. Yeah. Well, this is, this was a while ago, but yeah, he's been. Absolutely wonderful with this. Daniel is wonderful with everything. We need to clone him though. Yes, that would be great. That really would be great. Although I don't know, maybe the world, there's people also that maybe the world can't tolerate. Could we have two lines, signs, you know, that could be as one is enough for any world. Okay. So here we go. What I'm going to do is I'm going to run. Jenkins 2.303. Okay. And. I'm going to run Jenkins 2.303. Okay. And. Java minus jar Jenkins stop war. Oh, no, wait a sec. That'll do great. Okay. Okay. So we're going to run 2.303. And while that's running, I'm going to go, go grab the release candidate be ready for it. Okay. So now I've got to connect to that and we'll need this password. Okay. So here it is. Okay. Little slow. It's amazing how fast all this stuff is. And it's always never fast enough for us. Yeah. Well, and how spoiled I am. I remember we had a big release and one of the biggest feature was that you could rebuild it in 45 minutes. Exactly. That was a big deal. Talk, talk about the whiny complaining of why, why, why does my compile take five seconds? It should be right. Okay. So here we're going to. Install. Yeah, let's just install the suggested plugins and let it run. 2.306. So that's a funny number. Well, we'll see. I thought I downloaded 2.303, but whatever. Okay. So what this will do then is when this is finished, we will see that we'll, I'll add an agent to it and then we'll see the agent is named master. And then we're going to do an in place upgrade to. To the new release candidate. And that will then give us so. Visually installing. So Jenkins is ready. And when we look at build executor status, it shows master master. Yep. Okay. And now in terms of the admin monitors, there's a new version of Jenkins available. And. It warns me that there are secure known security issues, but nothing. We have Jcast installed. We do not. Should we add that? And then we can look at those files too and see if. Sure. This will actually cause no change to configuration as code. Okay. Whoops, but we can certainly do it. There's no reason to give the string master shows in there so that we just say or edit the Jcast. Good. Okay. Yeah. So here we go. And let's. Download now and install after restart. And it should be restarting. Here we go. So it's restarting. And the restart has, has begun. Still awakening. So we don't need. We might need that in the future. Can never have too many tabs open. That's a great answer. So there's going out when we were having trouble with the networking stuff and Tom's looking at my computer. You've got a zillion tabs open. I'm like, yeah. That's how it's supposed to be. Oh, and Kristen has joined us. I'm sorry. We're just continuing our discussion. No, it's all good. I've been, I've just listened to it. I don't. I'm watching learning. It's all good. Don't worry. I had some good ideas, but I was like, no, these suggestions also. Very good. Also interesting to see this release stuff. So. Yeah. Well, and thanks very much for being here. Okay. So now what we see is. Is this is still Jenkins 2.306. So an older version using the word master to describe the. The executor on the controller. So here it is. You can see it. It says master the master Jenkins note. Now we're going to stop this. And upgrade. By running a different war. So we're going to upgrade by running. The release candidate war with me. Java minus jar, not minus war. If I use correct arguments. You know that I didn't know what the problem was. Yeah. Well, how embarrassing how many times have I, okay. So it's telling us it's upgraded Jenkins from 2.306 to this. So we, I got the correct version, big win. And it says Jenkins is fully up and running. So now we can visit this. Okay. Here we go. The usual view and now this administrative monitor. Yeah, so now let's make it big enough to read. The word master is being retired as the term for the main Jenkins process and the built in node. The main process is now controlled called controller and the built in node is called built in node. The UI has been updated with these changes. The following features are also affected a lot. No, that's actually fairly, there's a couple of edits I'd make, but that's kind of good, right? Oh yeah, I love it. I think it's brilliant. Now, and then when I explicitly add the master label to the building. Yes. So that's an option and that's part of, I think that's part of this document. And this document describes. All the places where, where changes are, you know, just this plugins that have been known in compatibilities. There's one more plugin that does that's been fixed, but it hadn't had an incompatibility. What it doesn't tell you is how to change that. How to change what the, how to change master to built in. How to do before you do that. You click this button, apply migration. Where is that button top right there. Oh, there it is right there. I see. Okay. So it's already document. I mean that I like short change logs that refer to the documentation always. Right. And that's what that's what this one is very much doing, right? There's Daniel's done an excellent job of providing this documentation that describes impacts and risks on plugins that had known issues. Did he code it in markdown. Did he code what this, this file. It's actually an ASCII doc. Then why don't I have the subsections in the upper right. Sorry, let's see, let me get back there. Why don't you have the subsections or because he didn't add it to the, he didn't add it to the table of contents. Oh, okay. So I see what you were looking for is where is the page that, where's the thing that looks like this with the navigation or this, or this. Oh, I want the upper right that would give subsections to that. Yeah, the table of content right there. Yes, like this, or this. Yeah. Because what I want to say then is just this will not happen until you explicitly do it following the instructions in and take them right to migration in that documentation. See that migration. And, and certainly we can hyperlink to that migration if you think that will help. Okay, or, I mean it's not that long or you can just say in the migration section in this right that that's my tendency is just to say in the migration section look at this. Yeah. Okay, so back to our editing the text. So I guess other questions before we go back to the text is that so we've seen that. Oh, and I should. Okay, we haven't haven't applied the migration yet so first let's confirm this shows its named built in node, even now before I apply the migration. But if I look at built in node. I see it's labels. I don't. Okay, I don't have a way to just a minute I'm I want to see this because I need to be sure I understand it so new node. New. No, new agent. Let's this is James Bond. That's what it is. Okay, good. All right. Okay, and now. There's Web socket. Because we're not actually going to connect anything now when I click built in node. No, I don't see. Go to manage Jenkins manage nodes. Okay, manage Jenkins. Managed nodes. Okay, there's the documentation about that you say, I don't. I don't manage nodes anymore. Whoops. No, oh yeah, manage those and clouds. Okay. But still, but I'm not seeing master anymore. Well, but let's let's see. But we haven't applied the right so let me I want to try something now so I need to create a new item. And we're going to run on master. Okay, this is. We need to restrict where it will run. It's only going to run on an agent named math with the label master and notice that label master does match one node. Okay. So now when I build it, it built, and the console output tells us building on the built in node. But that means that the label master was there. Now, if I edit this job. Configure it and say, instead of master, if I say, built dash in, it will tell me nothing matches. Aha. Okay, so I'm going to save it with that non matching. And now I'm going to perform the migration. All right. Okay, so I just performed the migration. And now, when I configure it. It says label built in matches one node. If I were to change this back to master now says, Nope, master is no longer recognized. He's building so nicely done the UI here. As as the tech says, the UI is showing built in, even if the label is still master. Uh huh. But the migration changes the label to be master. Right. Now back to ready to go back to text. Sorry for this long and drawn out thing. No, that's good. Getting this thing right is is vital for me at least. Okay, so replace the term master for the main Jenkins application with controller or built in node in user interface strings and, and that this is done with no escape. Right. This is done. You, you can't revert it. You can't avoid it. It's just done. Right. However, you know, yeah, user interface strings and documentation. So that part is done irreversibly. There's no way to change that. However, the next piece is the node name. And the label will not change until an administrator explicitly performs the migration. Right. The label will not perform. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. I think so. I would say do not change each other than will not change. Very good. Yes. Right. Yeah. Present tense. Okay. Yeah. And instead of since I'm negating, I have to use an or right so existing installation do not change the node name or label of the built in node until an administrator explicitly performs the migration. Okay. New installations. And should I put this before existing? Yeah. Yeah. Good idea. Okay. All right. If a job definition pipeline definition or tool installer must be tied to the built in node, it should use the label built in. Good. Yeah. Okay. So now the next piece, this piece here was a piece that Tim suggested this really belongs in the upgrade guide, not in the change log because this is talking about the escape hatch. It's saying, if you simply cannot accept that. And you have to say, I want to override a different node name and label for the built in note maybe you want to call it master. And then you use this double secret escape hatch. Okay. And this does not rather than will not. What was ready to say. Next sentence. Oh, this does not write present tense. Okay, good. Thank you. Okay. Yes. That's good. All right. So where else we've got the link to the Jenkins IO doc about all this. Yeah, so the Jenkins that I would link is up here. Okay. But the trick for me is I want to get that text the system property text into the upgrade guide. So help me with this for just a minute. To dash 303 19. Okay, so here is the upgrade guide. Let's look at it almost verbatim from, from the article that Daniel had created the page Daniel had created. I've, he's done a great job of it. Right now I need to add the system property thing. So let's look at this page. I'm going to go first to see if you can give guidance on okay where should we insert this kind of stuff. So, here is how the page the upgrade guide looks it says upgrading to and now here's the first oops. Built in node name and label migration. So as part of this, there's a sitting as heading for affected features. There's a heading for migration. Plug in compatibility. And then that ends. Should I put something here for, and I don't know how we call escape hatches should I put a new, a new heading at the same level as plug in compatibility which says just in case or override system properties. Could that be an information or note or something under the migration section. Very good. Very, very good. That's, that's excellent idea. And then, and then you could include a little bit of Jewish mother stuff that like this is, you know, this is if you really know what you're doing and you're a little bit brave, you know, this is let's not make this as something that you know anybody should be doing. Right exactly okay just like just like Daniel did the info block here, we do something like that down here at the end of migration saying, if you've really got your body armor on and you've thought very carefully about what you're going to yeah good okay let's do that. Very good. Okay, so I think what we want to do then is take, take this information. And put it into an info. And that's here he did that with a note. Okay, so we, we would put something like this. And now I have to find the correct formatting for the note. Because I want a multi line notes so I think it is. There's two syntaxes for notes. Yeah, I think well and let's. Okay, now I really am going to look up this the ASCII docs syntax for notes because I should just get it right first try. Such a perfectionist. Well, shame on me for not remembering it. I have to look it up all the time because there are two of them so that's I get them. Okay, no, an admonition here we go may contain okay it's for double equals back to that. Did I get that right. And they put it in square brackets so maybe I. Actually, but do you need multiple paragraphs in this note. No I just need multiple sentences and I like sentence per line. Okay, with that I think it's a, or yeah, yeah, I like this never mind. Okay. All right so add the property. Now we need the Jewish Jewish mother and I'm glad you said that not me Meg. At Mormon mothers might have should be the same thing that. Okay, now I could have said that came in industry so that's where we hear it you know exactly I could have said that very good all right so add the system property okay so. Now what do we do in terms of the alert it's or the warning it's something like in those in rare cases. The administrators may need to may need to force the force a different node name and label for the built in node. Yeah. Right. And then do we say in that case, if that is needed required. So should we add the system property yada yada to define us to specify a different node and label for the comments that work okay. We also at the bottom of it, add a note that I guess, well there's one that says this is for, you know, sophisticated and should we add a note that it is not guaranteed that this work around will work in all future reference future releases or something. Or is that actually not an issue. No, no, it's a valid it's a valid point, but I don't, I don't think I think if Daniel had been willing to allow that level of escape hatchy to set it. Okay, my suspicion is he thinks this will probably be more of a permanent override system property than a temporary one. Okay. What's under that pink block is it actually say no. Yeah, it's it's just my Emax doing highlighting. Yeah. Okay, good. I just want to make sure. Yep. Okay. So we've said rare cases we haven't actually said this is the gun with ammunition pointed at your foot. Right. Maybe do we need you I don't know. My sense is I don't think we need to because the, the, the harm from this is relatively minor. If you, if you choose to apply this override you're stuck with the old, the old right using a different no name and label. And if you're really really really unsophisticated you don't know how to change a system property. The system changing a system property is, is actually quite complicated. So that's a level right there is the level of sophistication. Exactly. Yeah. Okay, then I think that's good. All right, so then I'm going to take Kristen. I think it sounds good. I'm yeah I'm just like listening a lot too because I wasn't really involved with a lot of this so it seems like it makes sense. I know like hide hide everything but there's always going to be, it's better that you know there's always going to be someone who's going to ask the question like I have code that depends on this. So, I know I mean, yeah. It's good to document the escape patch that's like look instead of having to answer a bunch of questions it's like right here. Because the other thing that could happen the whole industry is making this change. And you could end up with some other software that requires it because something else might not be master it might be main or. Right. Whatever. Exactly. Okay now there is one more, which was this additional pull request. Now warns about the use of master in a label expression. Let's let's show what that means I think we can I think when you change that we saw that little warning that yeah this is this is a different caliber of warning. So I think now so let's see if we can find it. So this thing configure. So I'm going to say master. Okay. Oh yes it does you're right this was it. So this is the warning that says, you're using the wrong thing use built in instead. Right. Try to make it try making it main. Okay, sure. And that's good. Anything you suggest it's going to suggest that maybe you meant milk built in. Right, try Elmer. I don't have to be spelled properly. Yeah, so if I do it this way. I don't have to say master or master. I don't have to say master or master. Yeah, because it allows expressions right. Right. Oh wow. Okay. And that that is a legitimate expression. Now if I said, I think though, if I say master or master. It correctly says sorry that that cannot be satisfied. Right. And that is no longer used for the building. No boy, he did a nice job of this. He really did Daniel did an excellent job. Right. It's. I, I, if, if we want to retain this, I think it's brilliant that we do. What he did is absolutely wonderful. If we want to retain it, I think I should just put it right inside this text. Otherwise it's just right after we're the administrator. Okay, so here, let's try to find that. Okay. Where, where did it say. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It allows them to apply it. Okay. So after existing installations, not change the node name, et cetera, until explicitly performs the migration. Could that, and then could we have a sentence after that that says. Administrators are warned. If the node. If they change a node name. If this is once the migration is complete. Job definitions will warn about use of master and label expression. Is that. Get rid of the will. Oh yeah, right. Present. Everybody writes that way and then you had an editing job. But wait a minute, but it. You got warnings in both directions. Right. If you put. Built in before the migration, you get a warning. Yeah, but then, then the warning before the migration is the warning they've always received, which is you don't match any, any agent. Right. This one is very explicitly phrased. Hey, it, the thing you've used. Is used to be understood and is no longer used that way. Right. Go back to the text. I'm almost wondering. Yeah. Yeah. But God, do we even need to just put the ones. Do we are just say that. Administrators are warned if they use. A label that's wrong. Yes. And that for me, I'm almost prone to just take this. Take this text out. Yeah. And just put a reference. Actually just take it out and admit it's just a very nice UI feature. Yeah. You might be right there too. Yeah. Cause for me it's, it is, it's a very nice UI feature, but it, it doesn't need to be in the LTS change log. They'll encounter it and be, and be very pleased with it. I hope. Right. And if they care about this stuff, they should read the doc. Right. That's, that's the idea. So what, what we just completed. Thank you for your patience with this was we have successfully done the way Tim had asked. So that's great. Okay. So I've got to do, I've got to do some more rework of this before submitting it. Sorry that I've burned all of our time on this one topic. We've got other topics on our list. Do we want to. What were the ones that I was supposed to warn you the triage and what was the other one at the end. Okay. Tria. Oh yeah. Triage team. This one will wait. No problem. And this one will also wait. So those are no issue. Okay. And mine will wait. Okay. If yours will wait, then I think we're, we're set. Kristen, thanks for joining. And any topics you wanted to bring, Kristen. No, but I'm interested in that plugin installation. Your documentation. So. Oh, okay. Well, so maybe we just do this one minute. So I can always read it as long as like, this just interests me. Well, but, but the, the crucial thing here was a structural question. Yeah. So I have Tim Jacome, one of the maintainers of the plugin installation manager on, on the platform segmenting last week and asked him, Hey, here's this large PR. How would you like it? And Tim's guidance was, Hey, concepts and maybe a few simple use cases should be on www. Jenkins.io, but the bulk. Should go on to the, into the, the actual read me of the, of the repository because it's, it's probably a bit more laborious by an individual, so they probably have to travel with the code. And, and that pull request. I think you remember it, that we had looked at, it's, it's got lots of deep information, but the danger is if it's on Jenkins.io on www. It will get out of date as the plugin is updated. So if we put it into the read me, it's closer to our plugin as the tool is updated. So. So I think he's right. And I intend to rework it. a PR to the to the to the plugin or to the tool repository. Right. Yeah. Any any objections? No, that makes sense. It just I can understand having a very basic what is this and then appointing to something else like something hopefully a use case that will probably never change like you know the very basic hello world use case. Right. But it does bring up a really interesting point about and I do agree that we should keep our documentation like living close to the plugins and stuff. But I wonder if we need to have some of the stuff with the tools like I don't know if there's very many that we care about that would have to be something like the plugin site where like it lives with the code but it was like it's pulled into the main source. I don't know if that right well and maybe maybe what we do is something like ask okay this is this is sort of a one of a kind right now. There aren't many other things like this which are command line tools but we could always ask Gavin Mogan hey could we find a way to act as though plugin installation manager was a plugin even though it's not. But I guess I guess the answer is no we can't because the way he gets the list of plugins is from Update Center. We don't want this appearing in Update Center. Exactly no no I'm just trying to think if there's like a easy way for us to be able to kind of I guess the easiest way for us to do it now is to just have a this is a very basic something that will probably never change like how to fuse the tool and then for more details please see. Exactly well it'd be interesting that if there was an easier way to also slurp like essentially slurp that and put it on the site but I don't that's that's difficult and certainly we have that potential if we were to if we wrote the plugin installation manager docs in ASCII doc we could pretty trivially trivially slurp but but the other is I think we may want to put basic use cases scattered in multiple locations because we need this same thing for Docker we need it for Kubernetes we have multiple locations where we need this here's the trivial way to update your plugins. Okay right this might explain to configuration as code I was thinking I was just going to take the readme file and convert it into ASCII doc and make it a file and and under managing Jenkins now it first of all it doesn't actually tell you how to get started with this right it's got all these sample file snippets and then it there is a whole demo or something there is a whole directory or on the plugin site or the on the github site for stuff but it's but I'm looking the snippets that are on the file I'm pretty sure like slave shows up a couple of times so those are probably out of date right it's a very explicit that they wrote this in 2018 they tell you that yep and it's like so it's the same thing it's like yeah I'm the writer it's all about the documentation I can put it all over there but some of this needs to stay close to the code good but somewhere I'm hoping there is there is the other file I've got to look at I hope that somewhere there's instructions because I played with the crowdv's task but I don't know you know but how you actually set this thing up initially so okay that's I'm glad we talked about that I have to think some more excellent okay good any other topics we need to go over before we call today done I'm good okay all right I'll stop recording