 All right, it is just about the top of the hour. Thank you all for attending. For those of you that are just joining us, my name is Michael Sowers. I'm here at the Nebraska Library Commission with my cohorts. Yeah, you should have colleagues, cohorts. Partners in crime, Linda Johnson and Krista Burns. Linda's got them on the questions. Krista's got them on the technical support and I'm seeing this thing. We are recording. We do have a Twitter hashtag, BTSL, Big Talk Small Libraries. If you have any questions during this session, just type them into the questions area. We will happily at the end of each presentation pass them along to the speakers and would like to thank, once again, our co-sponsors, ARSL and Library Renewal for their help in pulling this off and getting it organized and promoting it. So with that, our next speaker is Diane Trinkel, the director of the Nortonville Public Library in, I'm guessing, Nortonville, Kansas. Looking at my notes here and my scribbles. She's going to talk to us about gaming and game collection development in her library. Diane, you are there. Yes, I am. There we go. And I'm handing presentation over to you. You should be able to accept that. There we go. And we see your slide. So have at it. OK, well, I'll start out by saying that our library is located in kind of a rural area and our community has about 600 residents. We don't have very many businesses and no grocery store, so we're really the only game in town. And it's a long 65-mile-per-hour drive to anywhere we want to go. I will start this. This presentation is on video games, but I will start this by saying, I am not a gamer. And you really don't need to be a gamer to introduce this particular media into your library. Well, in 2004, to get started with the video games, we had a focus group with teens and tweens. And our first focus group that we had, we didn't get much results from that. We didn't get much feedback at all. So the next time we tried another focus group and I agreed to feed them, I gave them pizza. And I told them, if money was no object, what would you want in this library? And I told them to dream big. And they came up with some normal things. They wanted manga and they wanted a water fountain and kind of normal things. But the thing that really stirred the excitement was video games. And of course, when they mentioned it, they thought just jokingly that this is something that we'll throw in there. Never dreaming that it might be a possibility. Well, that same year, we received a grant. And it included funding for two Game Boys and some games to go along with those. And we just really built from there. Our teen advisory group decided to hold a car wash. And I kid them and tell them I will have t-shirts printed up that say we'll wash cars for video games because they really did. And they came up with a couple hundred dollars. And I took this to the teen advisory group. And I said, if you can buy four or five games or you can buy 28 or so used games, which would you rather have? And of course, they went with used games. And used games have really helped us with our budget at our library. That fall, we held our first video game competition. And we had about 25 attend. There was a lot of testosterone in the room. And we've been able to have several additional video game competition since that time. Of course, we have those after hours. So if we closed down the library at 6, we might open back up at 6.30 and have video game competitions. Now it was really funny that first competition that we had, it was at the suggestion of the teen advisory group. And we had no game system. We had no games to play on a big screen. But they brought in TVs. They brought in games. And they really made it easy. They hooked everything up. I did not need to do anything for this. So that was really a great thing for us. And they were really excited about coming into the library. Well, in 2008, we had a donation of a PS2 and accessories. And we had a TV that was donated at that same time. In 2011, we added a Wii system to our library. And of course, games to go along with these systems. Now our collection totals about 500 games. We have PSP, Nintendo DS, Xbox, Xbox 360, GameCube, PS2, Wii, and PS3 games. Now we don't have a lot of money to put this together. So we've been really creative with how we could create all of this in our library. But we do have some fundraiser occasionally. And every so often, I have a video budget usually used for DVDs. And I'll use some money for some of the newer video games that have come out. Now the majority of the games that we buy for our library are used. We can't afford new games. They're just a $50 game is beyond our budget. There's just no way. So we've done some really creative things getting this money in. Games now account for about 10% of our circulation some months. So they're really well used in our library. Why should you offer games? Well, I'll give you lots of reasons why you should offer games. You reach a demographic that isn't normally served. Young people are so busy that it's easy for them to forget about the library. They go about their lives. And we really want to remain relevant to them. And to do that, we need to offer what they want. This ensures that we'll be relevant in the future. And offering these games lets them know that they can get what they want when they come into the library. It increases circulation. It not only increases circulation for young adults in books, but the video games as well. They're more in tune to what we have in the library. They look around when they're in the library because we've offered them a reason to come into the library. So we've seen a huge increase in all sorts of circulations for this demographic. And the next two, lessons, behavior problems, and gains more respect from your teens and tweens. Both of those go hand in hand. By offering our teens what they want. And they know that we will get it for them. We have gained a lot of respect from them. We have a better rapport. And then we have lessened those behavior problems. We don't have a lot of issues. Even though we do have game systems in the library, occasionally we'll have a little noise level issue, but it's very easily taken care of. They just know that we're really in tune to them. And they definitely respect us for that. It also makes parents and grandparents happy. You know, they save a lot of money because they don't need to buy the games for the children's systems at home. And they know that their tax dollars are being well spent. In addition, they see their young people excited about going to the library. And that makes a big statement for us. Having video games in the library has really helped me with collection development because since we have shown them that we want to get items that are for them, they're definitely open to offering suggestions on books and videos and that sort of thing too. So it really has helped us when we are doing collection development. Now, you probably have some objections about video games, and if you don't, then perhaps your library board does. And of course, these were objections that we looked at when we first started offering them. One of the biggest objections that I have heard is that it turns teens into couch potatoes. And I don't know if you've really ever watched young people playing these games, but they really get into them and they move around a lot. More games are being released, of course, that require movement. And if you have any questions about them being couch potatoes, my suggestion to you would be to hold a game night and see for yourself. It's really amazing how much they're just moving. So that one, yeah, not so much. No budget? Well, we didn't have a budget either. We've really worked hard to seek out those fundraising opportunities, and we have made sure to get the young people in our community involved in these fundraising activities so they can help us bring that money in. It increases ownership in the library for them. They feel that they need to be more responsible, and in fact they are more responsible. So that's been a win-win. But be sure and get your young people involved. Now, one of the objections that I've heard has been regarding violent games. And in our library, we have made a decision to buy only T for teen games and E-games, which are for everyone. Now, M-games are, they're for mature and they are more violent content. And if this is an issue, you can make a decision not to have those games in your library. When I approached my board about this, it was their decision. They made that call, and I just tell anyone who asks about M-games that, you know, it's not something that we can have. I've had a few young people that have said that they want to go to the library board and get that change, but I've yet to have one do so. A lot of them are just, they feel very fortunate that they have those games in the library. I've heard that video games isolate young people. And that's simply not true. The teens that come into our library that we watch play these games. It's really a cooperative thing. They're working toward common goals. They plan and use strategy. And it doesn't isolate them at all. There's a lot of teamwork going on. And there are young people that come into our library that are very quiet. They just kind of keep to themselves, but they can really form a team when it comes to these video games. And that's a wonderful thing. So we found it does not isolate them at all. Catalogging is somewhat difficult. There are not a lot of records out there. Now, what I did in our library is I took a cataloging workshop from our library system and I made up a template of what items needed to be cataloged and how to catalog those. And every time I needed to do original cataloging on a game, I went in and I used that template. Now, if you have catalogers in your library, that's great. But in my library, it's me. And sometimes that can be really frustrating if you're not sure how to do that. But my best advice to you is to ask for help. Now, when it comes to cataloging a game, I can get those in and it's really no big deal. But in the beginning, it was a little frustrating for me. I've heard libraries directors say that their board won't allow it. Now, years and years ago, we said the same thing about having videos in the library. The books were what libraries were about. And then videos came in. And we know that videos are a large part of our circulation. It is a new format and the unknown is always difficult to overcome. But there are so many benefits to adding games. Be sure when you present the idea to your library board that you have funding ideas and policy suggestions in place when you approach them. And I think that a lot of them can see that definitely they are a great addition for your library. I've heard directors say that teens are scary and they really kind of are. Some are also smelly, loud and obnoxious. I felt the very same way. But I am much more comfortable working with the teens now. And they are much less scary since I have invested time and resources in them. So that's been a win-win for us as well. Security is an issue. And I will have to say it definitely is an issue. We choose not to put our video games on our shelves. We put the boxes on our shelves. But the games themselves actually reside in file folders behind the desk. Initially when we just had a few games we put them in a binder and that was great. But now we have so many games in so many different formats that we found that we were able to get some wooden crates for CDs. And we put together little file folders for them. But your filing system for your games would be as simple as a shoebox with small envelopes cut for each of the different games. So you don't need to invest a lot of money in your system. But I definitely would not expect you to put those games out on the shelf unless you really have some great security in your library because they will walk off. And I will say that some of our empty boxes have actually walked off. And I assume that those were probably taken by non-regular library users. They thought they were getting something and then found out that they had an empty box when they got home. So definitely keep that in mind. Maybe you don't know anything about video games and that's an objection that you have. Well, as I said, I'm not a gamer. And not a lot of us have that experience. I really rely on experts. And my experts in my library tend to be between the ages of 10 and 17. Now when you ask this age group to give you their advice, they really do feel great. So be sure and ask your experts in your library for their advice. Well, how do you get started? Well, number one, I would say hold a focus group. Go to the schools and ask for volunteers. Your counselor can usually help with this. Non-library users should be included in this focus group as well as library users. Because I think that you will have a lot of non-library users that once they figure out you offer this, they'll become regular users, which is a great thing. And be sure and ask the magic question, if money were no object, because you get some really positive creative ideas that way. And of course we all know that money is an object, but this way you can kind of make judgments on what you can offer in your library and what you can't. Talk with your board and be sure and set policies and plan for security in your library. Have that information when you go to the board and give your suggestions. Get the word out in your community and let everyone know that you are planning this and you would like donations. We've had several games that have been donated. In fact, our PS2, we've had a band hero set up donated. We've had a lot of things donated because people know that we would like to have those in our library. And be sure and ask for involvement from your teams. The more ownership in this particular project, the better. They are the experts and they have wonderful ideas. So be sure that they're involved. If you're still not quite sure, think about scheduling a game night. If you don't have systems, it's not a problem. Provide food and drinks. If you allow that in your library, it could be as simple as popcorn and Kool-Aid. And then tell them to bring their systems, bring TVs, and you would be amazed at how they show up in your library. And be sure to ask for cataloging assistance. It's really, really important that you feel comfortable getting these into your library catalog. And consider perhaps getting a system or two for use in your library. Now we have an older system. We have GameCube. We have Gameboys. We have PS2. And those are not the latest and the greatest, but all of those systems get very well played. So be sure and consider that. We don't have a lot of problems with noise because they know that if they get really loud, then they have to come off the game and they won't be able to play anymore. So it's a real good amount of leverage that we can use with those games. Another thing that you might do is consider subscribing to video game magazines, such as Game Informer, the official Xbox Magazine, PlayStation, Nintendo Power. And you can still get those now, but it looks like, because it is an electronic media, it looks like they may be going away in the near future. So if you get an opportunity, be sure and subscribe to those. And I think you'll have a lot of circulation with your young people by offering those magazines. Getting cases can be a little difficult. PSP, DS, and GameCube cases are kind of expensive and they're hard to find because the media is different shapes. You might consider CD binders with the little sleeves. That's a good way to circulate those. The other games can generally go into the regular DVD cases, so that's not an issue. You just use your replacement cases. But sometimes when we buy new or we buy, well, when we buy used at all, they don't come with a case. So we really had to get creative getting those cases in here. And also consider getting in peripherals in your library. We went to the dollar store. We have a dollar tree and they had controllers. They actually hold the controllers. For the Wii, they had tennis rackets and baseball bats and fishing poles, all sorts of things. And for a dollar a piece, we have those in our library and those actually circulate and go out the door. So that was really kind of surprising. It was just an inexpensive experiment for us. But they are definitely well used. Also, GameCube controllers. The new Wii can use a GameCube controller. So you might consider getting some older GameCube controllers in. Sometimes you can buy these used for a song. So that's been a really good thing for us to have. And we actually circulate those. We don't have a lot of problems with them. Not at all. And we circulate probably, I don't know, six or seven of those GameCube controllers. We ask them not to put them in the book drop. But other than that, we really not have any problems with breakage or anything of that sort. We do have itoy cameras that we circulate and they actually leave the building. And the itoy cameras are kind of an older PS2 thing. Kind of along the same lines as the Xbox Connect or Wii, where they have movement. You move with them. It has a little USB camera that follows you. And we circulate those cameras. They go out the door. We have games that go along with those. And the young people really like those in our library. We also circulate a game pad for High School Musical for Xbox 360. I found this game, it was on clearance. And it was $5 and it included, it was brand new, $5 and it included the dance pad. So I was sure to snap that up. And for $5, it's not a lot. If we should have problems with it, if something should happen, it's not a huge loss to our library. So we do circulate that one. It goes out the door regularly. Now, how do you fund all of this? Well, it's kind of tough if you don't have the money. As I said, occasionally I will buy games with fundraising money. But occasionally I have also a small budget for videos that I'll use some funds for that. But we've had car washes. We've done bake sales. Some of our book money has gone for this. Of course, donations. You could sell book backs. We do a silent auction every year. It's for Christmas. And we do gift baskets. And we've raised quite a bit of money for that. And one year we used all of the money. It was several hundred dollars. We used all of the money that came from that silent auction. You might consider a raffle or having a booth somewhere. Plant sales. I've heard lots of libraries doing plant sales. And our first video games actually came from grants. It's kind of tough right now. There's not a lot of grant money out there available. But you might be surprised at what you can find. So definitely consider all of those as your options. Now, where can you find inexpensive games? Well, number one, consider used games. We definitely buy, I would say probably about, at least 90% of our games are used. I utilize online resources, Amazon, definitely. You can look on there and you can find games for a penny plus 399 shipping. We buy a lot of used games. Sometimes they come without the cases. And we work to put a case on there. We also can print out new cover art. There are lots of resources, even Google images, but there are lots of resources where you can get cover art for the outsides of the cases. We ask for donations from the community. We actually have received several donations. I had one father come in with about eight games and said that his son had lost privileges on his game system. So he was donating these games to our library, which was really bad for the kid, but really good for our library. Purchase from your community. Now, this is kind of controversial. And we don't want to be the local fence for video games. However, we put the word out that we will buy video games from individuals. Now, I check pricing on Google Shopping and I see what a used game will go for. I check it on Amazon to see what that used game is going for. And then I will offer the young person a certain amount based on that. The most I've ever paid for a used video game was $12. It was almost a brand new release. So most of the time, I usually pay $3 to $5 for a new video game. And I'm very, very careful that I know the person that I'm buying it from and that I know that the parents have agreed to let them sell these games to us. We've had such great response from our community. I have had young people come in with literally bags of games. And I had one young person come in with a lot of games without cases. And they were older games. I ended up paying a dollar a piece and he was thrilled to death to get a dollar a piece. Well, that's an item that we can put on our shelves and can actually circulate. We visit the game stores and you would be really surprised at what you can find as far as used games in video game stores. The people behind the counter are usually really helpful because they are thrilled to death that libraries are promoting their types of businesses that we actually have video games. So they think that it's just the coolest thing ever and they help us out a lot. I have actually had some of the video game stores give me empty cases that they don't use because that's not how they sell their games and we actually needed the cases here in the library. And I know they've sent save me countless dollars. And plus a lot of times you can go in and you can find games for $1, $3, $5 and even some newer releases you can get that are a better bargain than if you had to pay brand new retail for those. Of course, your online resources we talked about Amazon and they have a lot of used games. But also think about Walmart.com, they definitely have used video games and you can buy those and their prices are somewhat competitive although their selection is not as broad as Amazon's would be. And be sure and check your reviews. When I use Amazon, I normally check to make sure that the game is at least 3.5 stars as far as user rating. So I know that that's a game that our people would probably enjoy. And then I'm always sure to check the seller ratings to make sure I'm not buying from a seller who has lots of negative about their shipments and things of that sort. I haven't had a lot of problems with the used games as far as games not playing. I bought lots and lots of the used ones. But I think two maybe that didn't play and they had been purchased through Amazon and I just called Amazon and I said, hey, look, this is an issue. And they were immediately replaced. So I really don't have a lot of problems with that. We do have a game repair system in our library. It's actually a DVD repair system as well. And it's a JFJ Easy Pro. It cost us, I believe, $120, $130. And it actually has two different levels of sandpaper and it buffs and that sort of thing. So we're able to clean up a lot of those games that come across our desk. And in fact, some of the games that I've paid a dollar a piece for have been really kind of scratched. And that machine has helped us clean those up and make those presentable. You might consider some of the used bookstores. I've noticed a lot of the used bookstores are offering used games as well. So you might consider when you're looking for games that that's a resource for you. And eBay, when I was first getting started, we actually used eBay and the search that I did, I did the system and then I did game lots. And I came up with selections that had multiple games in them. And I think one of the lots that I ended up buying on eBay, it actually had about 20 games in it. It was really reasonably priced. So if you're looking for a way to start, you might consider eBay to get you kind of a seed to get started and build your collection from. Now, I am insane. I have been known on Black Friday at 3 o'clock or 4 o'clock in the morning to be out looking for video games for the library. In fact, our Wii system actually came from a donation that we had. And then I purchased it on Black Friday using that donation. You'd be surprised at how much competition there is out there in the middle of the night for those video games. But I've gotten a lot of games for six, eight dollars. And I don't have any regrets at all about it. I had a lot of fun doing it, but that's something that you may decide not to do. Maybe you're not quite as insane as I am. Now, to kind of give you an idea of the popular games in our library, I'll let you know that anything Lego is really popular. Batman, Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Harry Potter, definitely anything Lego. Anything Mario, Mario Kart, Mario and Sonic at the Olympics, Super Mario, Mario Party. All of those things are popular as well. Hunting games such as Cabela's, where they shoot deer or whatever, those tend to be pretty popular. Wargames, Call of Duty is a great one, but we have to be really careful about the Call of Duty because most of the Call of Duties are rated M, but there are a couple that are rated T's. And a lot of your Wargames in general will definitely be rated M's because they're more violent. But they are popular, and I get a lot of requests for some of those Wargames that are M, and I just have to tell them, no, I'm sorry we can't do that. The sports games, Madden, NCAA, SmackDown vs. Raw, which is a wrestling game, is just really, really popular, and there are several different versions of those. Generally they have new ones come out each year, and you can pick those up, and they have new characters and new plays and all of that. These are games that are generally pretty inexpensive used because everyone plays the season and then they get rid of it and then they go on to the next season. So you can pick these up for not a lot of money. Simpsons games are still popular with us, Skateboarding, Hit and Run, those are definitely well used in our library. Any Xbox 360 game, again, very, very popular. We not only use those in our library, but we interlibrary loan those items regularly and definitely a demand for those, and Nintendo DS. And Nintendo DS is a tiny, it's almost like an SD card size, and those have been extremely popular. We were a little apprehensive about getting those because of the small format, but we've really not lost them. We've had great response with the DS games, and that is one that you should consider. I will let you know that the old Game Boy games play in the Nintendo DS, which was kind of interesting for us because we were actually thinking of weeding out our Game Boy games. And then I had young people come in and tell me that, no, they want those games because they cross platforms, they go up. So that was really an interesting thing for me. And I also want to say I had a young person come in and he had a bunch of these old games and he knew they were old games. The video stores don't want them, and I bought them for a dollar apiece, and I ended up with, I don't know, 25 of these GameCube games. So those are something that you could probably get really inexpensive. You might even look at garage sales for those GameCube games that will play on that Nintendo DS. And again, the GameCube games definitely have made a comeback because of the Wii. So consider those in your library because those are, again, they're one of those things you can usually find used for a little of nothing, and they are definitely being played in our library. The Wii accessories, those are also very, very popular. Now, a few years back, a couple years back, the really popular ones were Dance Dance Revolution, Guitar Hero, Band Hero, and those have really kind of waned. We don't see a lot of usage in those. We still have them, but even the new ones coming out, we don't get the requests for those new ones. Occasionally, you just have to break down and buy a new game, and I will let you know that the Legos and the Mario items, those are certainly ones that they're difficult to find used just because everybody wants them and hangs on to them. They just want those games. So those are kind of tough to come by used, and those may be like our 10% that we buy new. That's where it would come into play. Now, definitely, if you're still unsure about all of this, be sure that you educate yourself. There are a lot of books out there on video games and libraries, just teens and video games. There's a new one coming out actually, and I've had it on hold since last November, but it's Video Game Collection Development Management, which will fit right in with what we are doing in our library. So definitely, I've placed a hold on that, and that's one that you can consider yourself. But gamers in the library, I found to be really, really helpful for me, and then game on gaming at the library. Those were good ones to help me learn more about the format and how I can incorporate all of this into what we do. I will say having the games in our library has really opened my eyes a lot, because I didn't realize how greatly underserved our teens were, and it caused me to step up my game. I really had to look at the offerings we had in our library and make sure that those were relevant to those teens. I had to totally revamp our YA collection, which was an expense, but the YA collection that we had before, as far as books and videos, just it didn't really cut it, and it has caused me to do that. But on the other hand, I know that when those young people come into our library, they're finding what they want, when they want it, and they feel that we consider their opinions as very important. And because of that, the behavior of the young people that come in, they're very respectful. We chat every day. It has just totally changed the dynamic in our library and made it more user-friendly for those young people. I have seen a huge response from those young people as far as they're more comfortable asking for things. If they need help with reports at school or other issues even, they're more comfortable asking us for those items, for that help, because they know that we're responsive. It really has changed our library for the better, and I truly feel that it could change your library for the better as well. Don't hesitate when it comes to the video games, truly. I think that you'll find it's an extremely positive thing for your library as it has been for us, and I would certainly welcome any questions. Does anyone have questions? Oh, yes, we do. Thank you, Diane. That was wonderful. I was just commenting. I've watched a lot of presentations about gaming in libraries over the last five or six years, and you just had enough stuff I hadn't heard before. I was just sitting here listening to almost every word about how you're pulling this off, and we're just talking amongst ourselves about your different sources for games, explaining how games turn over and become used very quickly in that. It was wonderful. Yes, we do have some questions for the audience. In fact, people are really into this. First, someone asks, what about your collection policy? I think they're very interested in your selection policy for the games and your collection policy generally. Well, it's a little difficult when we do buy the used games. Of course, part of our policy is we don't have the M games, definitely. So that is part of our policy. But when we purchase those games, we do look, again, we look for the ratings on those games. We want at least three and a half stars or higher on the games to make sure that they're games that will be well used and well played. But there's not a lot of information out there like reviews on games other than your game magazines. So I read through the game magazines to see what they're recommending. And even then, a lot of them don't make recommendations. They just say what the game does and why it does it and how it does it. So it's very, very difficult. Again, the input from our teens is extremely important. So that part of our collection development policy on games is that we get feedback from our teens. But, yeah, there's not a lot out there. With the book, you can get a review, but not so much with the video games. It's tough. And someone asks, what about upkeep of the game devices themselves? Do you have any tips on planning for upkeep? For the game systems? Is that for the game systems? Yes, the game systems. They're interested in how you maintain them. We do have the game systems here in our library. But at one time, we had wireless controllers on those game systems to avoid any cables or cords or whatever. But we found that the battery upkeep, even rechargeable batteries, was just a nightmare. Now we do have wired controllers. And we have the TVs placed in a couple of different places here in the library. And they need to be pretty close to the TVs to be able to use those systems. As far as upkeep, there's just not a lot of upkeep that we do with them. We've had our GameCube for seven years, and it still works well. They're very careful when they use our game systems, maybe more careful than they would be at home. So that's been a plus for us. And they know how to plug everything in. They change them out because we have only two TVs in several systems. They change them out, and they take care of them. And even as far as controllers, we've had some controllers where your little thumb control has malfunctioned. And even those, they pretty much managed to take those apart, fix them, and put them back together again. And the young man that I have do that, he's about, I think he's 12. And he's just a whiz at doing those sorts of things. So that's been great for us. Send him over to the Maker Lab. Someone is asking, when the teens are using the games in the library, do they check them out first? Yes, I do make sure they check them out. We didn't start doing that until more recently, but we had some young people that would take the game back to the game system, and then they would leave them there. And of course, we didn't know which one took it back there, and it created a lot of issues. So now they know. They need to come up to the desk because we don't have those games in the cases. They check those out. They take those back to the video game system, and then if they don't bring them back to the desk, it's on them. So we don't have a lot of problems with them not being returned anymore. But that saved us a lot because one of those games could walk off. Yes. We have someone who's commenting that Metacritic is a good source for video game reviews, and Voya is good too. Metacritic? Metacritic. OK. ETA, CRI, CSE. Great. Great resources. Thank you for that input. OK. Let me see. People are interested that you are circulating them outside the library as well as inside? We are circulating the games, not the systems themselves, not the game consoles. But the games, yes, we do circulate those outside of the library. OK. And somebody's interested in how big is your library? Where do the teens play the games? You know, our library, to give you an idea, our library is 3,000 square feet, which we feel really fortunate that we have a library this large. But it's not like we have lots of spare rooms or anything. They are in the middle of the children's section, which requires them to be pretty quiet when they're in here playing these games. And they know they turn the volume down. It's not an issue. Occasionally, they will forget that they are in a library and we do need to remind them. But that occurs whether they're on the computers or in the stacks or wherever. We don't have lots of extra space and certainly not dedicated space to this. So they've just kind of honed out their little space and they're OK with it. So it's not like you need to have a big library to be able to do something like this. OK. Do the kids have to have, do the teens have to have parental permission? To check out games or to play games in the library. To check out games? No. They sign a card that says they'll be responsible for whatever materials are checked out and when they get their library card, the parents sign up for that because they're under 18. No, they don't need to have any permission beyond that. And you know, I really thought that we would have a lot of problems with items not coming back because we've seen some of the DVDs not show back up and then they're really past due and we've had problems with that. But you know, they really want to check out more games. So we don't have a lot of problems with delinquencies on the video games. Occasionally we get one. But not normally. I have been amazed that we don't have more issues with that. Yeah. What is the loan period on the games? We loan them out for three library business days. So not a lot of time loaned out. And our fines are really steep. They're a dollar a day up to $3. So they know if they have that game out for two weeks and don't bring it back, they're going to owe three bucks on it. And then the worst part about it is they won't be able to check out anything until they take care of that late fee. So it's a win-win for us. They end up getting those back in time. A lot of times with this demographic, they're busy. Kids are busy. They have lots going on. And they can put those off to the side and just totally forget about them. And by having that shortened circulation period, it's really kind of helped alleviate that issue. Uh-huh. What sort of storage or cards do you use for your television and for your systems? How do you store them? How do I store the systems and the televisions? I actually have a big box on wheels that has like an open spot underneath and they can go under there. All of our controllers are shelved under there and that sort of thing. But that's it. It's not like it takes a lot of space. It's just like an open cube is what it is. Only it's a little bit larger because it houses a TV. And we wheel that around and they can take it anywhere in the library actually. But we don't have a lot of space elsewhere in the library. We're pretty well tight everywhere else. So, yeah. And there are wonderful shelving units that you can get, but we don't have money to do that sort of thing. We really don't. It seems that you can do it very effectively without it. I think that's pretty good. I'm going to take kind of an emcee prerogative as kind of one last question. Maybe because every time you're describing the kids, I got to admit I was picturing boys. Have you noticed any sort of gender? Are you getting a lot of mixed? Is it mostly boys? What is kind of the gender mix for your use of your games? A lot of them are boys. However, we still have a lot of girls. And when we have game nights, we find that yes, we get the boys, but we'll have some of the girls come in just because the boys are here. Yeah, they're coming into the library and that's what we care about. But as far as playing in the library, we see predominantly boys. However, as far as checkout, I would say it's probably a 60-40 split. 60% boys are checking out and 40% girls are checking out. And we do try to find some games for girls, but there's just not a lot of games out there that are specifically geared toward girls. They tend to be adventure-type games that do appeal more to boys. So that's always a tough one for us, but we manage to get a couple Barbie games and things of that sort. But it is definitely more difficult to get games specifically for the girls. Great. Well, Diane, I want to thank you very much for that presentation. It was wonderful. I think you got the most number of incoming questions coming in of the day so far. So kudos to you for that. It sounds like everybody was really interested. So just one more time. I want to thank you for all the time and effort you put into this. We really appreciate it.