 Hello, good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to today's CIM Marketing Club webinar. Boost your employability with Pamela Barotti, head of customer advocacy at Microsoft UK, who will cover a how to guide to get into marketing career, including attitude and behavioural traits to be successful in marketing and what it's like to work for Microsoft. Clare Kemsley, UK and Ireland Marketing Managing Director at Hayes, who will give us a snapshot of the workforce skills and job function needs across marketing. Clare will also talk about the Hayes report on equality, diversity and inclusion. Then there's me, Johnny Crawley, and I'm learner partnership manager at the Chartered Institute of Marketing and your host for today's session. So, Marketing Club, what is it? See how Marketing Club has been created to support aspiring marketers. We provide useful insights into the world of marketing and tools and tips to be successful in marketing today and in the future. The Marketing Club delivers a series of webinars, this is one of them, and they're free to attend. If you enjoy today's session, it'd be great to welcome you back to a later session. We have additional webinars winning in November, January, February, March and April, so keep an eye out for those. Both CIM members and non-members are welcome to attend these webinars. CIM Marketing Club updates, so if you want to learn a little bit more about what we're doing and basically keep in touch with when our webinars are, you can receive Marketing Club updates. So, simply unlock your phone and use the camera lens on your phone and hover over the QR code that you should see on your screen now. That will then give you regular updates and also provide you the current content designed to support your learning. It'll also actively manage your professional development by keeping you up to date with latest trends, innovations and concepts in marketing industry. Now, I'd like to hand over to our first presenter, Pamela Barotti, Head of Customer Advocacy at Microsoft UK, over to you, Pamela. Hi everyone, good afternoon. So, I'm Pamela Barotti and it is a pleasure to meet you all. As Joanie said, I'm the Head of Customer Advocacy for Microsoft UK. So, in my role, I have the privilege to work with my team to bring customer stores to life. So, we showcase how our customers are using Microsoft technology to transform the business, better server the customers and boost employee morale. And as some customers such as Voice Voice, BP, Not West, as well as some very interesting startups like Moneybox and Recycle-Y. The content we created is then used across the entire marketing mix to celebrate customer success while helping Microsoft to drive awareness for a brand for solutions in both UK and international markets. But I would love to share with you a little bit of my journey. So, you probably heard for now, you might have realized that I am not from the UK. So, I'm actually from Brazil and I studied marketing and advertising in Brazil before moving to London. So, now I have over 15 years in experience in marketing working for startups, as well as global companies, the likes of Microsoft, Amazon, MasterCard, Oracle, among others. But when I moved here 12 years ago, I just finished my degree in marketing in Brazil. I had an experience in marketing there. So, when I moved here, my goal was to first improve my English. And then I said, well, I'm going to learn English, improve my skills. Maybe I do a short course, a postgraduate and then I go back to Brazil. However, after being in London for just a week, I fell in love with the queen, with the weather, with so many amazing opportunities in London and the UK has to offer. So, I decided to stay. I said, wow, I want to build my career in marketing here. And I have to share. You know, it wasn't easy because it was in the end of 2008. So, there was a global financial crisis going on. You know, I mentioned I didn't speak English fluently. I was in a student visa and I had no contact here. But I always believe that if you're very clear about your dream or your goal or what you want to achieve and if you create a plan, you can work hard, you can achieve it. So, that's what I did. I said, great. To build a career in marketing here, I needed three pieces. And first one, I said, great. I need a postgraduate to boost my knowledge and my CV. So, I did the postgraduate with the challenges of marketing because that really helped me to understand it. You know, the UK market, the global market. And also, you know, gave me more credibility because even though I studied in a great university in Brazil, no many people in my university here. So, that's going to help me. Then, I needed a passport, right? Because I was here on a student visa and back then I could only work 21 hours a week. So, it was very hard for me. It was impossible to get a proper job in marketing. So, before you wonder, you know, if I got married for passport reasons, no. Look, my grandfather was Italian, so I was able to apply for the citizenship and then, you know, live here as European. Of course, that was before Brexit. But that's for another webinar. And then last but not least, I said, great. You know, like I have a lot of experience in Brazil, but the UK market is a different market. So, I started doing, you know, I did some internships in marketing. You know, I volunteer to build my experience here. And I have to say, you know, it was quite tough. It was a big change. It was my first time actually traveling abroad. You know, so England is my first country that I visit outside Brazil. You know, my early 20s with no contacts and you know, the global crisis. So, I'm telling you, right? If I could make it, I'm sure you can, right? You already have, you know, your passport sorted or hopefully, you know, you have. And you already speak English. So, telling you, you are ahead of the game. But what I want to share is, let's look now, you know, the experiences I share with you. You know, some companies that I work for and I mentioned some on the screen. So, the interesting thing of my career is that I thought that I would join a company, work hard, continue my education and make it. However, given the current climate, there hasn't been such a straight line. You know, I work for companies as an employee, contractor, consultant, you know, in different markets. I'm covering different markets and doing different things in marketing. So, what I've learned is that nowadays careers are jungle gym, not a ladder. And I have here, of course, on the screen, like an image to illustrate, right? To go to a playground that is kind of the thing that you can play and you go up, you go down, you go to the right, to the left. And to be honest, that's very likely what your career is going to be. I mean, maybe you are going to be lucky enough to join a company and stay there. Great. However, given the current climate that we live, right, with it, you know, post COVID and changing technology and even most jobs that are going to be available in the next few years don't even exist today. I wanted to make sure that you keep this, you know, flexible mindset, which means is that if you finish your degree now and you're struggling to get a job, don't worry, right? I'm going to share with you some tips. But bear in mind, you know, get a job you can, get the skills, deliver value to the organizations, and then you can move to the next one. So, let's start with the top tips, right? First, for you to be successful, you need to think about your softs and your technical skills. So soft skills are, you know, your capabilities when it comes to, you know, presenting, negotiating, influencing, being creative. Technical skills is all around, you know, can you understand the strategy? Are you able to understand it and data and use that in your day to day job? I'm not going to spend too much time on this topic because Claire has amazing stats to share, like what a top soft and technical skills. So just wait a little bit and you're going to learn more. But it's very important when you think about your unemployability. It's not about knowing how, you know, social media works or how brand works, which is important, but you also need to think about it, right? Your presentation, negotiation and your influencing skills, just to name a few. Now, get experience. And you're probably going to say, Pamela, really, I know, but I don't have any experience. Most jobs that I want to apply, they require experience. Yes, I hear you. So here are some ideas of how you can build an experience. So if you're at a university, right? If you are, for example, taking some extracurricular activities, let's say you are, you know, volunteer as the football coach. You are leading the students group at the college. That's great because you are building your leadership skills, project management skills. And you can always use that in your CV and your experience when interviewing. You can also look online. I mean, of course, I work for Microsoft, so I'm not going to ask you to Google. I'm going to ask you to Bing it and then volunteer marketing job. There are so many organizations that sometimes they might be small and they cannot afford to pay someone full time. So why don't you volunteer? Get experience, learn because that's going to help you to stand out in the crowd market. I also want to share with you this platform here called Peep My Calls. So that is a charity that was launched years ago, but actually a friend of mine post-kinner. And basically charities, they post their calls. So let's say your charity needs help with their website or social media or events. They're going to post there and market tears or people that are interested in marketing, they can apply for those jobs. And I think that is great because that is a way for you to get experience and do something for good. So again, right, there are many ways for you to build your experience. So keep an open mind and be creative. Next one, find a mentor. Again, I'm sure this is not new to you, but I want to say to the right place. So the Chargers of Marketing has an amazing mentoring program. You can search your mentors, you can look for, you know, specifically in a region, you know, knowledge they have, expertise, industries. So again, you know, you can join and see what industry do you want to work in. It's a built industry or is technology. So you can find mentors in the industry that can help you in your potential to build your career faster. Next one, it is about creating as a cuter plan because I have to say, of course, I'm sharing a lot of tips and ideas with you. Claire has some fantastic stats and advice. However, if you don't get clear on what you wanted, if you don't create a plan, if you don't take action, nothing's going to happen. So be clear on your goal. What is that you wanted? And always phrase in a positive and in a personal matter. So you can either write down or you can have on your phone. I don't mind, but have it somewhere. Make sure that it's out of your type or you write. For example, I'm working as a marketing manager at Microsoft or I'm working as a marketing turn at my local college, whatever it might be. Because by writing down, you get more clarity. Harvard research shows that just by writing down, you increase the probability that you're going to achieve the goal by over 80%. So that's great. So make sure you have that very clear. And then what are you going to do to achieve the goal? Whether it is volunteering or boost your skills or networking. And when are you going to do that? Don't worry. The plan is not going to be set in stone. It's going to change particularly in the current environment. But that's great. Use it as a starting point. If you say, Pamela, I want to work in marketing, but I don't know what industry or area. That's fine. That could be your goal. I'll learn more so you can go to online conferences. You can speak to people, find a mentor. But be clear what is that you wanted and take action. And now I'm going to share with you, like train your mindset. Because for me, in order to build the career of my dreams, I really have to get the right skills, get the experience, but also have the right mindset. And I'm going to share with you here some tips based on neuroscience. Everything I'm sharing here are proven are things that have been researched extensively. So first of all, I want to talk about a particular activation system. So again, just in a very simple manner, basically that's what we also call RAS. It's based on your brain. So it's around here in the brain. So basically this part of your brain makes a decision on what you're going to focus on, right? Because I think we all know any given time, we are bombarded with so much stimulus. And that is almost like it works as a filter to filter what we're going to pay attention, what we're going to perceive. I'm going to give an example. So I don't have kids, but my friends who have, they said that when they were pregnant or when their wife was pregnant, they started seeing small kids everywhere. Or pregnant women. Why? Because that is on the level of awareness. On a personal example, so when I went to university in Brazil, like the first year, I know the university was quite far from my home. I had to drive. So my father gave me a car. It was a brand new Black Ford Fiesta. I call it Bob. And I have to share, guys, as soon as I left the dealer, I started seeing Black Ford Fiesta everywhere. And Ford wasn't running a special campaign or promotion. Why I was seeing it? Because that was on my awareness. So what has got, sorry, what has Bob got to do with your job search? Everything, right? So if you get clear about what you wanted to achieve and focus on it, you're going to train your mind, your mindset to look for the opportunities. Whether you maybe are looking at LinkedIn and you see an opportunity or you are reading a newspaper and you say, wow, there's a course I can do. So it's all about focusing on what you want to do. Next is visualization for success. So this technique is used by so many successful business people, by athletes. It's very simple. So maybe before you go to sleep, close your eyes and visualize yourself. Doing the job that you want to. What does it feel like? What does it sound like? What can you see? Because the brain doesn't really get the difference between reality and imagination. And by feeling that, you are training yourself for maximizing your chance for success. But guys, I got to say, you can visualize for the rest of your life, but if you don't have a plan, if you don't take action, nothing's going to happen. So those tools is almost like a top-up on the top of the hard work that we were doing. Next one, I want to talk about emotions. Because again, for you to boost your employability skills, yes, experience, but how you turn up. And this slide, actually this image is from Dr George Spencer. He is a well-known neuroscientist and he talks about it. How the emotions create certain chemicals in the body. And he also, you know, as you can see on the screen, he classified emotions into two groups. Creative emotions. So these are kind of the good ones, right? Gatitude, love, joy, inspiration. And the other ones are survivor emotions. So let's say those that perhaps you don't love feeling, right? Which is doubt, anger, fear. So the point of this slide is not for you to suppress, you know, your survivor emotions. Not at all. You certainly can, I know, acknowledge it and feel it. However, what I'm just raising on awareness is that the thoughts you're going to have are going to create certain emotions in your body. And those emotions are going to create chemicals. They're going to impact how your brain works. So for example, and we don't need to be a neuroscientist, right? Let's say when you feel stressed, you know, if you haven't slept or if you feel angry, it's going to be very difficult for us to, you know, to be creative, to come up with new ideas, you know, to be your best version. So what I encourage you here is be mindful of the emotions that you know you're feeling and do your best to start your day on the good emotions. Doing something that brings you joy, whether it is, you know, running or doing yoga or singing, whatever might be. Because that puts you in a good frame of mind to create better chemicals to improve your performance. And that is not about ignoring the reality or pretending everything is positive and everything is perfect. Not at all. Yes, there are so many challenges happening in the world with everyone. So, but if you start your day, if you set your mindset from what is going on well, if you get the great chemicals in the body, you have more power. You have more creativity to tackle the issues and to show up in your community, in your school, in your work as your best version. So now, you know, talking about the careers of Microsoft, because of course, you know, every time I do a keynote or a talk with Pamela, I love to work for Microsoft. What is like? I have to say, you know, I mentioned I work for so many different companies in my career, and Microsoft has one of the best coaches I have experienced. I have to say, we really leave your mission every day is really about empowering every person organization to achieve more. And here we say, come as you are and do what you love. That means that doesn't matter, you know, your background, or, you know, what you look like if you have this ability. No, it is a place for you to come and do your best job. So I highly recommend you to look at your careers website, you know, you always have a Prince program, graduates, jobs for the experienced professionals. So there's a lot of different opportunities. And of course, because Microsoft is a well-known company and brand, you know, we get a lot of applications. So even if the first and second time, if you're not successful, you know, keep trying, keep doing, because if that's a company you want to work for, I recommend you, you know, work on your skills, your soft skills, your technical skills, you know, network apply. And if that's something, you know, you really want to do it and, you know, have that great company on your CV. So, so that's me, you know, so I just want to wrap up just to say thank you so much for listening. I'd love to connect with wall or LinkedIn, as you can see here. Pamela Berardi. And to recap, you know, making sure you have a, you know, clear goal, working your skills, your experience and manage your mindset. And I firmly believe that you can be, do and have it, whatever you wanted, as long as you're clear and you work hard for it. Thank you for listening. Now back to you, Toni. Great. Thank you Pamela. That was a really insightful presentation. Thank you for that. So now on to our next presenter, Clare Kemsley. She is UK and Ireland Marketing Managing Director at Hayes. And this will be our final presentation of this afternoon before we move into the question and answer session. So over to you, Clare. My name is Clare Kemsley and I'm the UK Marketing Director for Hayes Marketing as a recruitment specialist. And just normally going through my slides at a pace. I'm just getting back to the beginning for you. The reason I'm here today is because I think it's so important to share with you as much as we can from a knowledge perspective about what's happening in your world today or the world that you're going to be moving into. What I wanted to start with was to give you an insight into the world of marketing and the sheer volume of roles that are out there at the moment while marketing is such a sought after skill set at the moment. There are about 21,000 marketing roles out there advertised directly by brands, by customers. That doesn't include any of the jobs that we may have at any of the agencies that you see advertising on behalf of clients. A lot of those jobs might be confidential or they might be new roles. And at the moment, just to give you an insight, the top five job titles in demanding marketing are marketing manager, product manager, online marketer, marketing assistant and communications, which is really interesting because what that shows us is that the depth and breadth of marketing knowledge is still a high thought after. Now, in a digital world, the evolution of marketing has meant we've moved far more from analogue through to using the technology and Pamela talked about those skillsets briefly. Thank you for that Pamela. On the skill set have now come to the fore because of the use of technology. Now, if you can see the slides which shows the key areas of digital expertise, what we've put here is marketing right at the part of any business. Marketing should sit in the place where strategy planning operations take place. What we've shown you here, I thought it's the honeycomb, I know it isn't, but it was put together by a fabulous digital director lady for us called Julia. She was the international digital marketing director for international hotel group. And she put this slide together for us to show us how the roles in marketing were going to be impacted by technology. A lot of you will have heard of a lot of these roles today. But a lot of the skillsets that sit in UX, for example, that sit in SEO, that's it, sit in Insights, are becoming more and more prevalent in your world of marketing today. And the reason that is, is because most of the primary functions, most of the roles that you will enter into when you first start your career with marketing, tend to sit around the need for an understanding of analytics. So, whether your first role is involved in social media, whether it's content, data or a generous marketing role, there will be an element of analytics in that job specification. This skillset, by the way, is still one of the biggest skills shortages across every level of marketing in the UK. Don't worry if you don't have a deep understanding of analytics now. This is just to show you that as you move through into, from study, your first role, your first need to acquire. And I think Pamela's story, a fabulous achiever of Pamela, is that a great person and I'm privileged to share the platform of Pamela today. What Pamela's story is all about, her own narrative is about learning, continually learning, being aware of what you may need to know to be able to put yourself forward. So, it's great career moves that you seek in the future. Every year in Hayes, we do a salary survey guide. Now, I'm not going to talk to you about the data of the salary findings within marketing and the benefits. You're welcome to have a link to this, by the way, and you can have a look at, actually, what does the price of a market here look like today, depending on skillset. If you're welcome to have that, what I really wanted to use this for today was to show you some of the insights that come out of this data research. Research between 20 and 25,000 employees and employers for this data. So, from that data set, we can find some insights that we can share with you that have impacted the world in the last year of marketing comms and provider spirit, and that may continue to impact over the next year. So, let's just spend one moment to reflect. What impacted business last year? What impacted the role of the market here last year? What massively impacted the role of the communications director? Of course, COVID-19, but it wasn't just COVID-19. Brexit. Brexit was huge. It was a massive impact on the way that we're going to operate with our European partners for many, many years to come. It obviously impacted massively on how market is, brands that we're going to begin to look at potentially a new audience in a new way. What new products was a brand to come up with during this time of Brexit to ensure they could retain or acquire new customers? And just it's quite important for you to understand legislative changes that can impact the role of market and communications person. IR35 was a massive impact in the world of improvements in the world of HR because it impacts how you operate as maybe a temporal contractor in the world of marketing. Many of you will gain some brilliant experience, some brilliant experience, by doing temporal contract roles. I know most marketers at some stage have dipped their toe into the water of contract and into the work, and that is in fact where you can gain some very good skill sets. Potentially some of those roles can be quite specific. You may be offered the opportunity to do some copywriting in a comms role. You might be offered in a temporary role the opportunity to learn a bit more about SEO. At any stage in your career, if you have a space where you're not in a permanent role, or indeed make a choice that in fact you want to gain a lot of your experience in marketing in different companies, in different sectors, through the word of contract, it's well worth thinking about. That impact of the IR35 impact was a huge impact for business, for marketers and communications people last year, alongside Covid and alongside Brexit. 81% of businesses now believe, by the way, that we will never go back to operating in the same working patterns that we did before. That really worked. Depending on where you live now doesn't necessarily mean you can't apply for those jobs further revealed. We've got lots and lots of marketing in comms teams that are still working 100% remote. Some have agreed to a hybrid working pattern, so they might be going into their teams two days a week, and then saying three days a week, we've got some roles that are still complete remote five days a week. So the working pattern and the marketplace you're going to enter now is going to be very, very different to that of 18 months, two years ago, and 81% of marketing of the employers believe it will stay the same. This data on the slides here is just to give you some encouragement. 67% of all marketers that we spoke to over the last six months said we're going to recruit in 2021. The 77% is the big challenge though. They are really struggling to find the experience skills that they need. We haven't got a slide to show you, but I can confirm. 61% of marketers who are currently employed, so people who are currently working in a marketing role, are looking to change their job this year. So the market is busy, but market opportunity for you to enter the market, to make a big career move within the market, to take yourself forward in your own career journey, is very real at the moment. So what top skills are employers looking for when it comes to marketing? Well, interestingly, as Camilla touched on, soft skills and technical. Communication skills are highly sought after at the moment. You would expect that in marketing. And actually a lot of people say to me when they're moving into marketing place for the first time, how can I get those communication skills? How can I know actually what my own communication skills look like? There are many, many different techniques you can use to improve your communication skills from basically practicing your body language to learning how to negotiate or deliver positive change. We have lots of micro learning on our learning sites. And again, you'll be given that information at the end of today's time. So you can go on to the site and have a look at some specific courses around communication, around body language, so you can practice and have a look and kind of work out where you might stand. This ability to adopt, and by the way to adapt has never been so prevalent. Obviously, because of the last 18 months, the majority of us, if we can, have worked from home for a period of time. We've had to adopt and adapt the way we work. And the adopt piece here is the key. I've adapted potentially to working on MS teams 10 hours a day, or five hours a day. But have I adopted it? Not really. I find it very difficult. I'd much rather be out there with people in the world I used to know. But I've had to adopt it, so adopt and adapt being flexible. Those are key skillsets that Mark is looking for at the moment. They're very, very important. And just to break it down into the specialist skills versus the soft. So those technical skills, actually data analytics, 30% of the specialist skills required today are data analytics. What is interesting though for you, and Emma and I have touched on this in the past, are that the overarching knowledge of marketing, that depth and breadth of knowledge is still really important. 51% of the people we surveyed said, I really want someone to understand the whole marketing function. That's very important. But equally, there is a space, a bigger space coming, for that understanding of data analytics and how important it is. And as you can see the soft skills, the ability to adopt communication and problem solving. You will have a lot of these skills. You may just never abuse them in the workplace or you might not abuse them in the context of your marketing learning. But you will have some of these skills. And at the end of this presentation there, again, there are some tips on how we can practice and try and put out in our CV and out made it in our interview moment, those skillsets we have in if we've not worked in the marketing workplace. The great and exciting thing for me is that multi-employees, marketing fraternity, commons fraternity, offer everyone to study. And again, this is reflected in Pamela's narrative, her story, her journey. You know, 82% of employees say I'm going to upskill. I am going to undertake some professional qualification. I am going to learn. Marketeers are, by far, a way of profession that I've seen, are continually learning journey. Obviously you're the voice of the customer. Obviously you need to meet the needs of the customer. So you need to be at the forefront of not only of the insights that you may get in the business to equip you to acquire and retain customers. You also need to do that for yourself. And interesting, Marketeers, such yourselves have said, when it comes to thinking about where I might go to work, it's really important. It's really important. 67% attraction and 71% retention are directly correlated to learning, the ability to upskill. So what I thought we'd share with you today, somewhat briefly, is the latest piece of research we've done. We do research into your world once or twice a year. And the latest research we've done is a fact on ED&I. Now, ED&I obviously is an unbelievably large, complex, and truly important subject. What I've tried to do today is just to show you how the marketing and commerce fraternity, your profession, feel about ED&I at the moment. We did a survey across 17 different professional sectors. So that was IT, purchasing, logistics, finance, and, of course, marketing. We do this particular survey every year. And has there been an impact, do we think, looking at all of our behaviour, the behaviour of a business during the pandemic? Some of this data, by the way, is uncomfortable. So we asked who agrees that action on ED&I is happening. Overall, employees and employers believe that there has been some action, 48%. But the whole ethos of this particular survey was, are we just paying lip service? Or are we indeed seeing action? Now, if we look at what marketeers hear here, 62% say that employer actively talks about ED&I. But only a third believe their employer combines discussion with notable action. If we move a bit further on, this slide might find, as I say, quite uncomfortable reading. I've been sharing this data and having brilliant conversations with your marketing paternity for about the last probably three months. There is a lot of data that we spend a lot of time discussing. Today we don't have the opportunity, but I'm happy to share more information with anyone that would like it and the survey indeed itself. So groups that do not feel they have an equal opportunity to succeed. The uncomfortable reading here is that we are in a world that talks lip service, that talks about ED&I all the time. And yet these particularly group of people do not feel that they have an equal opportunity when it comes to succeeding their role. If we move further forward, we can look at some of the data pertinent to the world that you're going to be moving to. And the percentage I reflect on more than anything on this screen is 9%. Only 9% of marketing PR and commerce professionals really believe that there will be equal opportunities in the next five years. Now, when you're in the world of marketing comms, as I've referred to before, you are the voice of the customer. But equally, if you're in marketing comms, you're the team. You're the hub that set the true values of the business. You set the values of the business to support the growth of the culture of the business. So I don't know the time. We can spend some time interrogating this particular piece of data. Lots of organisations have said to me, actually we do feel responsible in marketing comms. For the internal commerce perspective, are we sharing the great stuff we are doing? Or are we just paying lip service? So marketing really plays a fairly pivotal role in the success of any ED&I policy that sits in the business. As you can see on the screen here, these are the factors that individuals feel led to their chances of being selected for job being lowered. And as you can see, the differential from 21 to 2020 makes uncomfortable reading. There has been a slight move forward, as you can see, a small improvement, for example, 56% of professional site age as a factor that led to their chances of being selected at the end of 63% last year. But frankly, if we look at a lot of the other dependent status, neurodivergence, sexual orientation, we all need, obviously in society, to support these figures moving forward in a positive way. From a marketing comms perspective, we hold alongside our own tar teams responsibility for how do we make this happen. Moving from lip service to action isn't easy. The data you can see here now, again, just relates to what marketeers, by the way, when I say marketeers, I mean marketeers comms and obviously the market teams, anybody that works in the marketing world, you can see here that even have a portion of marketeers, 54%, feel that managers need more training. And those of you today that may have touched on some managerial experience or have worked, potentially in a position, everybody needs to be supported in their learning around the ADD. And they're learning about anything. As we've said, always through panelist narrative and this presentation, learning, upskilling, keeping abreast of what's happening in the marketplace, knowing what might be a skills that I need later in my career. It's all about actually training ourselves, but also the managers that we work for need support in some of these areas. And I think what's great is I said about your world, your profession a few sides back, in marketing managers really do want to understand, they do really want to be able to support the whole of the ED and I world. As you can see again on the side, actually just under par of marketing individuals want their organisation to review its recruitment process. That is positive if we guys in marketing comms that we need to do something positive here. Communication, as we said before, one of the top soft skills, one of those skills that we really need to be good at in our world and the world of marketing comms is about progress. So sometimes the organisations I speak to, the brands I talk to, the universities I talk to have made great progress, but they haven't communicated it. And there again, the internal comms team comes to the fore. It is their role to make sure that if we are doing great stuff around this initiative that we actually make up the opportunity of our own employees to hear and see what we're doing. It's a thing for your customers. If you're a brand, your customers want to see what you're doing. They want to see how you're embracing change. They want to see that you are genuinely offering an equal opportunity to anybody from any demographic. Individuals will make decisions on whether they work for an operation of business, a brand, based on their regional policy. Equally, equally, they will also make decisions on the purpose of that business because purpose is obviously really important to us as marketers. So, it's not a comfortable subject, but it's a very important subject. And actually, at interview, you will have an opportunity particularly maybe to give some thoughts around how you feel about the DNI. And so, it's really important to be aware of what the market feels at the moment, what marketers see, what this is, lip service, what this is, action. So, moving forward, obviously, your tomorrow begins today. And, actually, I just want to be able to share a couple of slides here with you and talk about your world has changed. The post-pandemic world will be different, but your role will be so important. Is it equally if not more important as marketing as it comes to people as it was before? And I do want you to be able to reflect and think about the positives that will come out of these changes in the post-pandemic world. The way we look at ourselves today is slightly different. And I think what the last 18 months has done is given us the opportunity really to really think deeply about that. As I said, to work for a purpose-led organisation, to balance flexibility, our mental health is so important. And we will continue in your world to make better and richer changes. More swiftly than perhaps we did 10, 15 years ago, we would also, because of hybrid stroke remote working, be able, as I say, to look at opportunities that potentially you might not have been able to look up before. But as our CEO said, whatever happens, the world is still going to need talented, talented people. Marketeers and commas people, ube-talented people. So think positive and be positive. We need to, as you can see on the slide, but we need to be open minded. We need to think about our career confidence. As Pamela said, we need a plan. Even if it's just a plan that works for us today and tomorrow and the next month, depending on where we are and how we feel, it is a plan for the next two years. But a plan is really important. Because if we make a plan, as Pamela said, and think about our career, our skills gaps, our top skills gaps, our interview techniques, then we can action that plan. So make a plan and let's begin to action some of it for ourselves. We've got quite a lot of information on virtual interview tips for you. Because interestingly, even though they are to move back to the workplace for a lot of organisations, as I said at the beginning, there are still interviews being held virtually because not all organisations have gone back to their place of work where they want to be. So we can give you some real tips on if you're being interviewed virtually I have whistle stopped through that. There is a lot of data. You're more than welcome to access the presentation. Thank you. I hope it's been interesting. As I say, there is far more information on my website that we can share. Now I'd like to hand back to Johnny for the Q&A. Brilliant. Thank you Claire. That was fascinating. Lots of useful tips there. We've got lots of questions which is great. I'll start off with one for both of you actually. This one, feel free to jump in either. Do you have any useful tips for adapting effectively to change in the marketing environment and share the best way to stand out from competition? I'll talk about the change piece if I want to talk about the standing out from the competition. When it comes to showing how you've adapted, it's always good to be able to evidence something as an interview process or if you're thinking about how can I show at work my ability to do that. It's always worth thinking about something that's genuinely being part of something you've done. It doesn't have to relate to the workplace. It certainly doesn't have to relate to marketing expertise. As I say, for example, hopefully I'm showing you with the problems I've had in my technology today, Johnny. Hopefully I'm showing you that I've actually been able to adopt this type of change. I've been able to do a presentation. I've been able to use this technology which previously I hadn't used very much. Now to show my ability to adapt the conversation I felt confident having with you, Johnny, because you were supported at the beginning and I couldn't move my slides. Six months ago, as you know, Johnny, for all of us in this world, that would have been a disaster. We didn't know how to do it. We were concerned. We didn't have the I don't know about all of you, but the internet connection at my home in the middle of Suffolk is very poor. I didn't have a very good laptop. I keep against to put the headsets on so they could hear my dog barking. Now, I think I've shown my ability to adapt and hopefully adopt the vibe. I'm not going to get stressed out about it. We've sorted it and hopefully we've had a good space to reflect on our learning and skill sets today. That's just a very small wage on me of how I would use, if I was asked, how I'd change, adopt and adapt it. There's a real clear example. You've all seen it today. We're all still alive. Everything in the world is good. That would just find something that genuinely you've had to do. It doesn't have to be a massive thing. Thank you. Pamela, anything to add to that? Do you want me to ask a different question? Great. No, I think that's fantastic. I think perhaps just on the second part of the question, which was about, I guess, how do you stand out? I guess for me, my advice is first, identify your strengths. Sometimes, particularly for a younger career, if you're like, what are my strengths? But just write down what things you're good at. What do you enjoy? What do things come to you naturally? My suggestion to you is that focus on those areas. I mean, of course, as Claire said, yes, you need, let's say, if you love being creative, but you also need to understand all the areas, right? Data and analytics and things. But if you hate data, why do you want to be ahead of data? No, don't enter us out, right? Yes. Each to their own, right? Get and acknowledge, but focus on your strengths. So whether it is, for the work that you do or for example, if you want to get experience, let's say you want to get experience, volunteer to get market experience. Finding a charity that is close to your heart. So I've been volunteering for the last seven years. I'm really passionate about helping empowering people through coaching and mentoring. So I got qualifications in the area and also being volunteering in supporting charities on the area, right? And that helps me to stand out as well, because that helps with my leadership skills, coaching skills. So that's my advice. Find things where you love it and build your skills and experience or your charitable work, everything around it, because otherwise you won't be authentic and you won't be happy. Brilliant. Thank you. So a burning question. I think a lot of people are excited by the fact that you work for Microsoft and obviously some of the other organisations that you've flashed up there, unsurprisingly. Lots of people want to know how you got into that and also whether you chose to work for Microsoft because of similar company alignments in terms of your values. Yeah. No, I'm sure. That's a great question. I feel generally very blessed that I've been able to work for someone amazing companies and I'm so grateful for all the employers that gave me a job, whether it's permanent or contract. I'm super grateful. I think for me, I was in a station of my career where I think comes with experience and perhaps a little bit of age, you kind of get clear about what is important to you. For me, I felt like Microsoft, it was certainly like a perfect match in terms of it vision, mission, objectives and values. For me, yes, I'm a very commercial marketer. I think it's important to deliver value, boost revenue, but equally, I, for me, is important to work for a company where it's not just about selling and it's about the customers, the employees, the community and that's something that is not just written on the wall. That is something that I experience every day. That's something that is, for me, it's very important and I think Claire also mentioned her presentation that when you look for a job and you look for an organization that inspires you that is doing something good in the world, so that is something as well. Perhaps when you're starting out your beauty and experience, you may be in that position yet, but that's okay. I think my advice is it doesn't matter if you are an assistant, if you are a waitress, if you are the head of marketing, you always do your best. Go to the job, not just thinking about what you can get, but what you can give. What you can give to your employer, what can you give to your colleagues because that is going to come back to you naturally. Sorry, I get excited, I belong. No, that's great. Thank you, that was a brilliant answer. That's okay. We've talked quite positively throughout which is great, but obviously the reality is that people do get setbacks. So what would you say, what sort of recommendations would you give for people to motivate themselves during an unsuccessful job hunt? Yeah, I think it, I mean, for my side, right, I think if I'm very honest here, I had so many setbacks in my life, you know, so to start with when I was 10 years old, my youngest brother was born with a very serious disease, so he never walked, talked, and I was no cure. I helped my parents to raise him for 13 years before he passed away and it was very difficult for me. So for him, right, that was a big setback, but what I took away is that he was, you know, in pain and he was always smiling, he was just positive, so that, you know, I've learned a lot from him. You know, moving here to the UK, I had a great job in Brazil and here, you know, even when I was studying, I worked in restaurants, you know, and for me, he was always like, okay, what can I learn? How can I grow, you know, having this growth mindset? And I have to say, I applied for so many different jobs. I got so many nos in my career, you know, and I have to say in the beginning, you know, I even tried. Now I think after a while I got used to it and I don't think personal, but there will be, you know, there will be setbacks and there will be things that you don't expect. So that, I think for me, my advice is that feel the pain because it sucks right when things don't work out or when things are out of your control or you were rejected, it's painful. So yes, feel the pain, but then see what did you learn from it and how can you apply that to the next role, whether it is again in your career or in your personal life. So for me, adopting a growth mindset is like helps you to get through the difficult times in your life. Thank you. Claire, anything to add to that? I follow that. I think the key is to try and find a positive and a learn from every opportunity. So if you've had an interview and you feel you've not been successfully on the role, please insist you get some feedback, some constructive feedback. Was it your option technique? Was it just someone who was a bit more experienced than you? What did the interviewer like about what you said? Because we're often very good if we're not careful giving the reasons why you didn't get to the next stage as opposed to the reasons why you might get to the next stage the next time. So I would take a learn from every single thing you do. So if you send a CV and you don't hear from an organisation and call them, understand the way that they take CVs through, it might be important what they might say. We won't reply to people that we're not going to call to interview. Be sure you understand the process if it's an interview situation. Be sure you understand the beginning to end of that process. Be sure you understand also as much as you can about the place you want to be. And also you will have overcome upsets in your life to date. Obviously Pamela talks about very sad and tragic one there. But you all have something that you've overcome. Think back to how you overcome that. And it's that learning again. Take the learn from it. What did I do actually that made me feel more positive about the future. And I think a lot of what Pamela touched on when she talked about reticular activating systems. There are quite a lot of very simple, straightforward techniques that you can use to actually not just build confidence, but actually look at where you can make positive change potentially in some of your lives, not just that work. And there's quite a few free courses actually on the Hays website. But again we can send the link for that if that helps. Brilliant, thank you. Unfortunately we are running out of time probably just under a minute now. So thank you very much again to Claire and Pamela. That was really insightful. So we'll be back with our next marketing club webinar, Binge Marketing. The best scenario for building your brand. And that's on the 17th of November starting at 6.30. Finally I'd like to say thank you very much again to Claire, Pamela. That was brilliant and thank you very much for the opportunity to join and enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you.