 Same kind of numbers. Don't you believe this election is really over? No, I just I can't bring myself to say anything of that of that kind. I'm Call it a fixation. I have Traumatic shock created by President Dewey You know, I I'm looking for the end of it, but What are you being told as to how it's it looks in the various states at this point? well the our own pollsters keep Saying that there hasn't been much movement In the polls at all so I can say that it looks good from here, but I'm not going to go beyond that. I won't predict All seem to agree or most of them seem to agree that you won the second debate fairly convincingly Given the fact that the Louisville debate didn't go go quite as well Did you feel a lot of pressure to do well going into Kansas City? well, of course you you feel pressure about something of that kind you realize that You know that a great many people are looking and making a judgment at all the I'll tell you something about both debates though that I've I've wondered about a format of that kind Maybe in addition to the Panelists and the moderator there ought to be a couple of referees who have access to the facts because It was a debate in which someone could make an outlandish statement and and get away with it Particularly if that outlandish statement was made after it finished your rebuttal Was there a moment in that debate mr. President the second debate where you you kind of knew you had it Where you knew that you had won it You know it's The game is still going until the to the gun sounds and No, I thought in this one that I Well, I wasn't making a mistake that I made in the first one. I tried in the first one to Everything that I'd heard that I knew was not factual. I tried to rebut it and and What that did was suddenly put me into a kind of He was calling the shots in that I was responding to everything he'd said in even neglecting at that point some of the questions asked of me and I Just realized that But because there was no referee to say well, he's right and you were wrong I didn't get any credit for the fact that I corrected some misstatements there You were obviously expecting that question about age. Where did you get that one liner? No, that just That just came out Were you concerned at any point that age might become a dominant issue in this campaign Not really they've tried for so long So many years back to make it an issue and I Besides I don't I don't feel that old Debates now seem to be institutionalized. Do you think that's a good idea? Do you think the American public is you gets a good glimpse into someone like yourself? Through the debate format. No, I really don't I Have to I have to wonder if they serve a purpose take look at this situation now here to two of us I have been in government now 12 years and certainly In a form of public life and public speaking and so forth for longer than that He has been in government around 16 years or so in the Senate and the vice president We've got records our positions on things Certainly are available If not already known by people and then to suddenly say well now in 90 minutes We're gonna have a back-and-forth answering some questions here in front of the people and and this may be is going to decide the outcome and I I'm not enthusiastic about it So you would prefer that they not be institutionalized that that they don't become a standard ritual of presidential campaigns No, I think we've I think we've gone far enough with regard to Controls of campaigning and so forth to the point that pretty soon it's It's going to be a routine rather than It's up to the individual to go out there and do what they think is necessary to What would you say to the comment that it's the issues are really irrelevant in these debates and that it's the man's style That really wins it one way or the other and you have certainly benefited from that Assessment well, I would have to say this too in I think some of the journalists themselves your colleagues have remarked about 90 minutes that based on style or Something of this kind a decision is to be made about who should hold this office No, it should be Your issues your philosophy and if you've had a record your your record So so why given all this mr. President did you agree to debate if you had these sorts of reservations because I was quite sure that Very frankly that it would be made a great big issue in that I would find myself Defending against a charge of cowardice If I didn't What are your feelings about the way this campaign is evolving so far? I mean there's been some name-calling on both sides and your rhetoric has been Kind of harsh really since Kansas City Do you do you think that's the way a campaign should be played out? well, I would prefer the other kind and talking about your own record, but when finally you've reached a point that so many outright false charges have been made and Claims of and Promises campaign promises made by the other side and no attention paid to the individual's real positions are My so-called harsh rhetoric has been one of saying This is the record this is what was done and You know to vote 16 times for tax increases as a senator to vote virtually a 100% against any improvement in national defense in all those years Including being According to statements made by others opposed to even his own president when he was the vice president Who toward the end of his term? Wanted to take some steps to rebuild our defenses these are the things that I was talking about and In response to that I think the There was something of personal attacks that would be made against me Are we gonna hear more of the kind of rhetoric? Let's are we gonna hear more of the same sort of tone that we've heard from you this last week Mr. President the rest of the way or are you gonna go back to the high road towards the end? We're going to be no there'll be some of that but also We'll be talking about our own ideas and our own plans for the future But we had planned it wasn't any result of a debate or anything We had planned that as that campaign went on and that if he continued with the kind of attacks that he was making that As we got closer to the election I Was going to speak to the record I could ask you to be Walter Mondale's campaign manager though considering how far behind he is Do you think he could have done anything else but to try to attack you personally? I can't answer that. I don't I don't know I think that I Could have been more about What he intended to do and But he it was a disadvantage there since he wants to raise the people's taxes and no one wants that What you've already said mr. President, what do you think about the kind of campaign he is he has run Is there anything any other observation you'd like to make on that point? No What what do you really think of him? What what do you really think of mr. Mondale? Oh, that's I Think that's kind of irrelevant in the contest here. I believe that he's sincere I think he's honest in his views, but I think that we have two completely different philosophies and His voting record is Reveals that that he For example his belief that attacks increase is the answer to deficits when I Happen to believe that restoring the growth to the economy is Going to result in far greater revenues for the government than a tax increase Because I think it tax increases were partly responsible for the economic Chaos that we were in Government can become a drag on the economy and had been and I think has been a number of times Because of what has been the for the last half century the democratic economic policy the Growth in government spending you stop to think that Back along about the time when I was starting to vote in there that the federal government Only took a third out of the total tax dollar in the United States States and local governments took the rest now the federal government takes two-thirds and The tax is taking four times as much or more out of the dollar as was being taken in those earlier days And we've had eight recessions since World War two Mr. President I don't if it's possible for you to take yourself out of this But to look at what appears to be an electoral landslide in your favor Do you see this as a possible realigning election along the lines of FDR? I don't think anyone could say that as of now having been a member of the other party myself. I know How difficult it is to bring yourself to change it's almost like changing religions and So what I see right now, however, is a kind of a bipartisan approach in that people are crossing the line to vote because they agree more with The things that we are proposing then they do with the course that the leadership of their party has been following But whether that's going to result in a change of party. I know for a long time After I had decided that I could not follow the Policies of the Democratic leadership. I still felt an obligation to stay and try to redirect as a member of the party Redirect the party so I don't know whether It could be a realignment or not, but aren't you aren't you possibly missing an opportunity? To help to hasten that realignment, Mr. President by not concentrating your personal campaigning these last 10 days in congressional districts Your campaign said this morning that you're going to concentrate on on helping Senate candidates and vice president Bush is going to Concentrate on house house races doesn't that pass up a bit of an opportunity? Well, I've been trying to help in the remember that the difference is that when you're the incumbent You do have a job to do so campaigning is part time But what I have done and what I think probably reaches more people than say Showing up at a fundraiser or something I have I have done radio and television spots For our candidates for our incumbents who are seeking reelection have done letters for them and Will continue to do that and then every place I do go Why I have all the candidates That are Not someplace else in the stump themselves on the platform with me where I can call attention to them and Give them As much of a plug as is possible In a newsweek interview that will come out next week vice president bush has suggested that his role and presumably yours What might change in a second term I think what he's implying is that you might be might be less involved in the day-to-day activities and Over the next four years. How do you respond to that that I might be? Oh, no, I I listen I I really mean it when I say we made a new beginning, but it's only a beginning And the only reason I'm running is I want to finish the job I want to fully implement what what we started, but I also want to say this about about george He has been I think The best vice president that I certainly can ever recall in this country And he has very definitely been a part Of the administration. I have always believed I did this when I was governor and had a lieutenant governor I believe that the vice president is like the vice president executive vice president in the corporation that He's not sitting on the bench waiting to be called into the game He's in the game. What about some of the locker room rhetoric that's been in his campaign? What do you think about that? well this is a little bit like my supposed ill-timed joker When I was at the ranch and doing my own radio show um I think things that are picked up by a microphone That are on that it's unintentional of the individual's part to say them into the microphone I have little patience with people using those obviously I think all of us at some times Say some things that We wouldn't say in polite company Or get angry and if we hit our thumb with a hammer say some things that aren't to be repeated but The only time that someone should be blamed Is if they say some of those things intentionally For public dissemination Then you can question their good taste. Well, I've never had reason to ever question. George Bush's good taste and We've asked you about one vice presidential candidate. Let me ask you about About the other. How do you think mrs. Ferraro has acquitted herself as a vice presidential candidate? well I'd rather not Comment on that. I think she has to be judged by the people and On the basis of their deciding whether she has the Experience and qualifications for that job And I'll let the people make the decision. Do you have any other observations? Mr. President about about this campaign? About the course of this campaign or how does this compare? To the to the 1980 campaign any general observations along those lines? Well, you see I've only had one previous experience with running as an incumbent and that was my second term as governor and It is different the believe me when you're the incumbent And maybe this was evident debates that you were asking about You were you were being assailed And challenged I have to tell you that it is easier to run as the challenger than it is as the incumbent There is that plus the time element and the fact that you can't just Lock the oval office door and go out there and say well, I'll see you in november You talk about being assailed and as I think that the temptation for an incumbent is to Retreat into what I think has been called for you a cocoon Um, how do you react to the charges that you're the most inaccessible president since Richard Nixon during watergate? And how you know how do you plan to change that at all in a second term because they aren't true And uh, all right, so I haven't had as many formal press conferences as some of the other governors have had On the other hand though I have had regional press In groups from various sections of the united states come into the white house I have had interviews like this and then I've had them with groups of the of the white house press corps and I have had a fairly regular Off the record sessions with them so that we can just sit around and I can be free to talk and they can be free to Pump what they want to know that's just for their own own thinking Of I've had groups of citizens In of various kinds and for white house luncheons and so forth from all over the country And I can't remember the exact number, but what is the number? 400 all in if you add them all together types of questions, that's That's quite a few now in toting up the formal press conferences And comparing them to previous presidents as anyone ever Compared did they ever do these other things that I've done or did they just depend on the press conference? Some people thought you were maybe a little rusty in that first debate that you hadn't Had enough give no, I was the one it was and it was my fault. I was flat I was so filled with all the things that he'd been saying That I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't A fact and figure that I Didn't have right up here in the front of my brain. No, I just had to turn and ask for the total number of those things I You know you don't keep that on the right up in front or on the tip of your tongue And I think what had happened is that I had just So filled myself with that that I knew I felt flat I think it was like what do they say about a fighter leaving his fight in the locker room I think I'd done that Those other accessible incumbents ever debated their opponents when they were 12 to 15 And they only hang around here four years, too Mr. Baker and president Ford did that No, no concede the point This is the equivalent of Richard Nixon or Lyndon Johnson debating and you deserve your your your due for that You took a risk and it worked Second term is really you've called it a new beginning. Do you anticipate any major changes in your cabinet or your white house staff? No, I haven't queried anyone or I haven't heard any reports. We know that of course the attorney general is leaving He made that plane. I can only tell you that both with regard to staff and cabinet I have always In asking people to come into the administration said, you know, for whatever time you feel you can give Never pinned anyone down as to duration And nor did I in california when I was governor Now I've heard no references of any on the part of any of them They're leaving some of them may Feel that way and that they have to get back to their own businesses or careers, whatever it might be But as far as my wanting to make any changes. No, I'm perfectly content With I think I've got a fine staff and a fine cabinet Um in broad terms if you get the mandate that everyone thinks you will from the voters in broad terms What do you want to do with it? Well, if I were president in the second term here I would want very much and do want very much to that's why i'm running to have the opportunity to continue with what we've been doing and The main overall points of our program were the reducing of the What the share that government is taking from the gross national product and which makes it a drag on the economy Further pursuing ways in which with the tax system you can make it Even more of an incentive for people and business and so forth for the economy to grow Making government more efficient bringing it up to date which it isn't in many business practices It's always stuck struck me as strange that the federal government has the highest overhead administrative overhead for delivering a service or a dollar to the people of any echelon of government or certainly of anything in the private sector and We're still whittling at the useless regulations and all let me give you an example of the type of things that can still be done we put 62 Categorical grant programs into 10 block grants for the states and local governments In doing that in giving them more authority and autonomy to Set the priorities in these programs in their own areas rather than trying to do it all from washington as if the whole country is alike and doesn't have a diversity In doing that we found that we reduced to 600 From 3 000 the number of people at the federal level that have been dealing with these programs but at the local level 885 pages of regulations were shrunk down federal regulations were shrunk down to 30 pages now More of this to go forward and then in the international scene to continue Really the drive for peace And our whole military buildup which has been Talked about so much in this campaign is only part of a dual track The other part of that dual track is arms reduction bringing the soviet union to the table And i want to pursue those two and i still want to pursue the idea of being able to Rid the world of nuclear weapons entirely I think we save save the rest for later. I just want to ask what you wrote in the time capsule Well, I finished the time capsule the part that they interrupted me You never said what you put in the letter though. No What I was what I was using it for was to illustrate That how the thought had come to me That yes, there is a future and there are people that are going to be talking about What did we do? How did we affect their lives good or bad? And it was when that Going down the coast that day and it really happened that I had that thought about golly I wonder if it's going to look like this and and with that came a whole new approach to the letter I said wait a minute. I was just going to write about things here as if those people hadn't heard about them Well Through history. They're going to know all about us And when I said this letter has got to be different than anything I had conceived of as yet So from then I of course had to write about our times But then I thought I could write about things they wouldn't know about What was our thinking about this and how did we view the future and what we were doing now as to what it might Affect them and so forth But no the part of the part of the thing that they stopped me on was when I turned to the young people and was going to say That our responsibility All of us and and then I put it my generation and those Several generations between mine and theirs the kids the responsibility we had to Turn over the right kind of a country to them And my tagline was going to be that we have a sacred responsibility To when it is their turn to hand them an america that is free in a world that is at peace And I didn't get to say it. So I've been saying it to the kids out there What is it about you that that turns these kids on on the college campuses? I mean, it's like a michael jackson rally almost well you're asking a I don't know whether you're asking an authority on that because as a governor I was in the era in which if I went to a campus the I started riot and in those days and to suddenly find This attitude and the part of young people it's I must say sometimes I I get a lump in my throat out there at seeing them and having feeling them that way But I've tried to ask some young people Just like I get an individual and say, you know, what is it why and and the answer I get from them is They're interested now in their future And they think that what we've been doing is right that their future is safer and better and They've got a chance for careers and jobs I guess they're They weren't too young To have recognized that talk about an era of limits and things aren't going to be as good as they were and All of a sudden they have hope and optimism President we appreciate it very much we at one point We're going to try to hope to talk with you a little bit about some specific things for the second term But as as paul axwell told us once you don't like to tempt your iris superstition in these sorts of circumstances So we're happy to to forego that and keep our fingers crossed. Hope we have a chance a little bit later But we appreciate it very much. Well I won't try to turn it off. I don't understand mechanical things