 So the idea is to spread this awareness and obviously the hope is that some of these talks will give rise to more interesting talks in the conference. The conference itself happened on 7th and 8th of December. So we are hoping once again for tonight to have at least one talk on David's. So the next talk we are going to try and host on David's and her education. But today's talk, thanks for coming down. Neemo, who is otherwise known as Allaya Rana, does tech at Facebook. The idea to face off is to understand where payment gateways really stand in the payments ecosystem. We didn't have a discussion the first time around where we kind of arrived at the matrix. We are hoping today will be a much more concrete story to understand where payment gateways really stand. And now with the launch of UPI, what changes or what, yeah, rather what changes for payment gateways. So no one is taking much now, what are you? Oh, yeah. Is that? Okay, can I get a slide please? Yes. Really? Yep. Oh, it's okay. Oh, it's working. Okay, I'll just start. This is a nice, this is another research. This is one of my favorite topics. No, no, no, no. So I'm giving the board for your talk. Yes. I want to go over four topics. The first one is the history of gateways. How exactly do we reach this payment? How exactly do we reach the state of India? The second thing I want to talk about is what exactly do we do in gateways to the United States of India market? So very often, you know, you think about the companies that have their own gateways in the United States of India, you talk about the companies and if you are a startup in India or if you're starting a company, it becomes very, you may think of what you may need as a people thing. You know, it's just moving money from case A to case B electronically. But at the end of the day, it comes down to really more complications than that. And I've never done some of those complications. I've had classes in the Indian market. I've also never done some of the different HP challenges, some of the Irish challenges, some of the other challenges that we face as a company. The next part of the talk will be about the challenges and opportunities that we face in India. What exactly are the main points that not as customers, but businesses are facing today? And what are the opportunities that are growing up and getting forward? And in fact, as the final part will be just about UPA, in case you haven't heard, UPA is the brand new payment venture in India, which, you know, just meaning why it has to be mentioned so much in that. And then we do it because the industry hasn't stopped. And how exactly does it change the next step in India? And how exactly does it affect UPA as a company or as a customer? So, yeah, first of all, the history of payment gateways. And India specifically just all started somewhere on UPA. This is the era when CCME introduced the brand new company, which was started. CCME was just started because people wanted to sell things online. So the data started with wanting to steer the Saudi businesses from where they didn't refer to. And if you want to sell anything in India online at that time, if it wasn't possible at all, especially in terms of, if you go and look in terms of international acceptance, it just wasn't there. Stifles gave me ideas and she built up the name of the customer, of being the old customer, which was CCME's time to sell a Saudi's online international, which wasn't possible. And they made up the payment to it. However, once you, you know, backtrack to the same thing as product, and you try to launch CCME as a product in India, it doesn't work. Because Merchants in India didn't want to sell the product actually. Not all of them. They wanted to sell things in the industry. And the thought issues that come from opening up after the launch of CCME were really huge, which is why they decided to keep a domestic product, which was actually a product in India. The next company launched in India was Paydesk, which you have heard of, has a future in the market. It has, it finally started out in the Philippines, which is, you know, it was, you know, four women's landlines earlier. And they could see all these things. It worked out really well. And today, in 2016, 15 years ago, we have a huge gamut of other gaming games in India. They pay you, they set you up, they set you up quite well. They would raise a bank. Alvin has their companies adjusted up, which is what you were trying to capture a huge share of this market. So, then you got to go over the market in India itself. The relationship with the somewhere-growing family, tell you what you're doing is what you expect to see in the next couple of years. By the way, if I speak too fast at any point, please just raise your hand slightly. I'll notice you and I'll try to do this clearly. I've been on the speaks though and I apologize. People are sorry. So, now today we have all these different payments in the market. And essentially what each and every one of them is trying to do is capture a huge share of the market. So, we have this technology, for example, which is trying to capture the long-term in India. The long-term where you have small and medium-sized enterprises trying to come up and try to get the, try to get the final small surges into markets. Then we have companies like pay you, which are trying to move the hard-of-filling, to make sure that the enterprises are crossed and get the money. We ourselves are trying towards the enterprise with the SME side. So, each and every one of you in the market has its own pro-strategy. And that's how the situation is at the end of the year. Any questions so far? Q&A. So, yeah, nice point. So, for example, I believe I did a report on 2013, which stated that more than 80% of the payments in India were actually just put out. This is from a private angle. Today I would assume this is the one that's actually going to a lot of e-commerce because that is where the audience is going to go. Is this still in there? Yeah. So, that's where we stand today. That's a lot of payment came in. So, how do you use them as a company? And so on. The second thing I want to follow is what exactly does a payment give me. I would really like, I would really like this. My video. All things as a payment give-me with contents in India do. Of course, I lose money, so this is the second of the talk. A, of course, do we download the flux? Can I download the flux? Oh, it's just going to be just like a little bit of money. So, yeah. What exactly does a payment give me in India do? Pay. Of course, we are giving you this and the other, accepting money. You need to accept money for a cost of your own. Move it across to a merchant. That's the basic gist of it, right? It sounds crazy, crazy, anything of it. However, if you are giving it in India, you can't just accept one load of payment. India has a complicated market. You have a kind of payment. You can not just try out traditionally in the cars. You also want to pay for, for example, a wire transfer. I saw that you have this thing called an IBS transfer, or lots and lots of, especially in Jews, and it says the whites have been donated for long. Put up their IBS credentials on Facebook. This is my address code. This is my bank one and all. These transfers are not using this. It makes excellent use because customers are really looking to pay that amount using IBS. At the same time, if you are paying, can that be a payment method for you? Yes. Can you make use of it? Yes. However, how many cases are you going to get? We move to other things. We have credit cards. We have credit cards. We have PPA cards in India. For example, I'm sure some of you have heard of this company called Happy. I think Happy is the method. So, yeah. They, for example, have cards issued by Arbiel Bank. They are co-parent cards issued by Arbiel as well as Happy that the company distributes and supplies, and they can be accepted by these cases across India. However, accepting those cards, too, doesn't happen definitely. You can get to that. The second thing is, of course, in a bank. In banking, somewhere around 30% to 40% of almost all of our transactions still happen using a bank in India. People are still not comfortable with the idea of credit cards in India, which is where we are using a large market company. For example, in the US, we have a bank which is really, really complicated. So, for example, what happens in a bank compared to a credit card and a credit card connection where you have a single card network taking care of the majority of what you're saying. So, for example, even if it's a jobless remand versus an HTC credit card, it still goes through the exact same route because it's, for example, a master card or visa-dominated card. However, in the case of net banking, it changes entirely. Each and every bank that tries to provide net banking to customers is in fashion. And that is where the majority of the issues come from. So, that is where we're going to end up with you as a HTC versus HTC entirely different. And it brings on a whole lot of those issues about how good the funds are effectively to charge that score in the next one. So, for all these state members that have been given these points, what are the costs of the credit card to be from the banks? What is the most profitable... The most profitable, of course, is all the credit cards. It's not profitable. The reason for this is because RBI essentially has issued a guideline to all banks in India which says that you can cap credit card prices at 0.75% which means you cannot charge any more than that. They are of course not going to charge any more than that. So, all of them are exactly charged at the same price. So, I'm surprised that you're calling net banking a big problem. Even the credit cards have that 0.75% where everything is split to that particular bank. It has a dependency on the assets. Is that as bad as... The bank still has exactly the same credit card requirements. Some of the banks, for example, they'll even make it worse. For example, if you try and make a transaction using P&P and you're asking for a transaction password along with a second factor which is the end-of-the-way transaction. So, now you have two passwords to enter to complete your transaction. This complication also creates opportunities for companies like this in India that could make the situation easier and simpler. The third part, however, is do you think that nobody has ever backed an account for more than 10 years? What? What, as a payment method in India, are really unique phenomena that haven't come to the other markets? There's this thing called SafePay by American Express which is typically a wallet but it's nowhere to be used. So, it doesn't have an option in the world. For example, if you come to a medium or a mobile bank, or a Pays app or Olamani, which has its own wallet all these different wallets in India which you can do the same thing which is captured more and more quickly than on them so that they can make payment processing easier for customers. However, for us, as a payment gateway indicator it ends up being just another different method of payment that we can offer to a customer. So, yeah, that's the easy part of it, you know, moving money from point A to point B. What other things does a payment gateway do? Any guesses? Is it related to that? Yes, of course. The way a response usually happens is something called same-source refund which means that where you got the money from is where you get the money back. So, for example, if you try to pay via hand banking, you have to ensure that, you know, the payments get stopped exactly the same way from where it was initiated. If your payment is like a card it has to become a credit card and so on. However, what are different, of course, between this and me? Then, of course, some of the issues I've ever issued a charge back to you. What's the talent? Wow! So, this is something that comes up from the credit card industry across the world. What happens is if you try to pay for a credit card if you pay via credit card, it's not essentially your money that you're paying. It's not actually your credit card. It's the bank's money that the bank has decided to give to you at an interest which is given out to your machine. It doesn't deliver on the goods that they promised. Other goods are under promised heaven. They were delayed if the shipment was trashed or the drug was over enough. You can issue a charge back which is essentially you asking the bank hey, I did not get this card or it wasn't up to the amount which is why I like to try to charge back. Our charge back is essentially you pay in the bank, I want my money back. And in this case, the money wasn't yours to begin with. So, it was the bank's money, right? The card was like yours to try for this money in order to get it back. So, you can file a charge back. So, the way the charge back change now is essentially you asking your bank which will ask, which will try to reach the payment processor, which in this case would be something like this, okay? We would go back and ask the merchant hey, why exactly did this not happen? What happened wrong with the shipping? So, and then the the chain would go back from the merchant giving us the delivery goods, delivery goods going back to the bank. The bank, same way we have the delivery goods here except with the shipment, we have a signature and then the charge back is figured out essentially in the terms of the delivery goods, gas it for the fund, okay? So, who decides? The arbitrator is essentially the bank at this point. So, your bank is essentially fighting for its own money. The bank gets the authority. Does that happen here? Yes, if you have a credit card in India if you have a credit card in India, you can find charge banks but the bank is not making money. So, which bank are you talking about? This is the question. This is the issuer bank. So, in terms of payment, the issuer bank is an acquired bank. The issuer bank is the bank whose card you own or whose bank is on your grinder. The acquired bank is the one that is actually processing the money on your bank. That is the one that does not have credit card in India. Can I write somewhere? Yes. Yeah, please last time you were waiting. So, there is an issuer bank which is let's say, who is the customer trying to pay for a credit card. I own my bank. This is the bank loan. However, this is a merchant. Merchant doesn't know anything. So, the payment gateway talks to something called an acquired bank. So, not all banks in India actually perform this duty as an acquired bank because it's a costary business you have to invest a lot in paid policy. So, they have roughly around 5-10 banks in India that actually do it properly. It doesn't make common sense for a lot of the officials for the banks in India who actually do this as a business. So, now you are an acquired bank which will essentially probably become a faction for different reasons. So, the customer is trying to pay to get the card needed. The card needed is a 5,000 yen bank which would be a different combination of the NACNDX and both of the banks would use which would figure out where the card needs to go. They would generally let us know hey, this thing has a second factor authentication on it. In this case, we need to run the account action properly. But remember that the issuer card decides where the second factor goes. So, the acquired bank is set up by the people? Yes. Like if I do one transaction and my people spend less, I can use another one. Yes. So, here I actually just say you can use this FCR that exists on ICFC and you can use. It depends on the people running the account. So, we, for example, if a bank is failing, you can decide how you do that. Yeah, charge back. However, you know, a major cause of charge back is not just because a customer wanted the other bank. A major cause of charge back is also because fraud. So, for example, if your credit card was stolen and somebody else made a payment or somebody else decided to buy a game on Steam, what can you as a customer do to buy a charge back? So, that's the biggest thing to block a fraudulent charge from going through. So, that's one of the major issues that we need to face, especially not so much in India because, of course, because of the second factor in the observations. But fraud is still, you know, there are different ways of doing fraud in India from day to day. So, Indians are very jughurt. And of course, all of you know. So, I'm sure some of you are not good at it. I'm trying to do things. So, similarly, people are I laugh a lot when you're there. Yeah, so how do you have another discussion? Yeah. But yeah, for example, I talk a bit about payment fraud in India and how it happens. Paid payment fraud, usually in a rush market for a new season, is kind of just a customer side which is actually, you know, you get a stolen credit card, you make a payment using that and basically you can dynamite it and so on. In India however, what you see is virgin side fraud which is there's an urgent entity which will sign up for a payment deal and now what they'll try to do is charge the customer for the same money except that they'll process again and get the money. So, for example, what you've seen is a customer has had a really nice card phone call that you shouldn't have to make to play. Which is actually a person getting a phone call from fraudster telling them, hey, your credit card has been approved for an upgrade. Can you give me the last six digits? Can you tell me the first four digits? Can you give me the entire card number? Can you tell me the flip it over and tell me the CV number? Hey, you just got a note from a bank, this needs to be approved in my question. Can you tell me you're the next few? The viewers are not like there are. That's the problem. So, I see you say a bank has a dreaded delay. We asked you to take a photo and you took a photo and sent it. What's that for fraud? So, fraud is another major issue in India. It's not as big a comeback to other markets in India. We do face fraud. Even on an emergency, their site doesn't have anything to do with it. And then you use it to rob my businesses. So, we have to do both the rising classes, purchase because of fraud but also because of delay. What other things does it mean to you? Can you just say, you call a bank on an account, that's pretty much it. So, some banks may or may not have any banking in the country. So, how do you maintain it? What happens exactly from the money moves from customer to a bank? How are there also issues regarding how money moves from a bank to a merchant's bank? So, this isn't really a settlement or reimbursement to a merchant for goods they have against. How exactly does this happen? You as a customer, if you are running a payment gateway, how do you move money to 10,000 odd or 100,000 odd bank accounts in a single day? Okay, the use case is actually I have some people's money at the payment gateway and I want to move it, give it to them. On a regular automated basis. Yeah, I want to pay merchants because they have to give it to the merchant. How would you automatically pay somebody? Yeah, so it actually comes down to that. However, it's not easy. So, you have to talk to different banks. They'll offer you different ways to do it. So, the automated system is actually built by different banks that you can talk to. And, another thing that you need is actually something about the money account. So, that is the current account they are stating about which everyone learned back in school what the difference is. There is something called a modal account where you don't own the money but you go to the money. Let's go to the next part. So, for example, we have exacerbated the amount of money in the last few days we can go to the money and then the money over 2 hours from there automatically, which means each and every place will be owned by some other bank. So, we need to go and talk to them and figure out hey, how can we automatically move money to it because we need to pay our own amount of money to it. So, yeah, automatic movement of money not just to you because that will take care of the lack but you also need a way to forward the money ahead to another merchant instance. What else does it really do? Other than just payments. You also need to think of user experience. So, at the end of the day it's not worth anything if you are not able to actually pass a limit and give a good enough user experience to your customers. So, it's not just packaging which is what we are talking about so far. It's also a lot of talent that we need to make sure that a customer is able to you know, fill the card details and for example, if you go and one of my major peace points for most people in India is why do they ask me to tell them whether I have a credit card or a debit card. Okay, it doesn't change in any manner. I'm still entering a card number. I'm still entering a CV and my expiry details. Why do you need to ask me a whole credit card or a debit card? Okay, so far, any questions? Yes. Which makes sense. Which makes sense except not everyone in the industry is making it. It does make a difference actually. So what happens is as I mentioned earlier, the debit card rates are lowest in the market but there are rates for credit cards where usually it's over somewhere off the list. It can be lower or higher depending on which bank you are on, whether it's credit card, whether it's visa card, whether it's you know. Yes, today it doesn't matter. It's possible that you need to but you need to charge back and all those things. That's my money against that. Does it matter? Yes, but no. Yes, but it doesn't matter. Maybe it's the thing of getting a figure of that information, right? Why don't you need to ask? Is there a traditional thing of why it started this way? It's the numbers were overlapped. Right now you can do credit cards and visa and master all of it. How does it work? Additionally, you can do it. How does it work? No. Whether it's visa card or credit card, debit card, you can't. It's really hard to figure out whether it's a credit card. Figure out whether it's visa card or master card. Whether it's visa, HGAC card, but it's hard to figure out because BND is giving out these cards. How does it work? It's important that you know which one. Not always. Okay. So, so far we've discussed what exactly does a community do. So, challenges and opportunities. Is this where I want to talk a little bit about the nation and the industry? What should I do? I think we can do that. Okay. We'll try to figure out 15 minutes and then we'll figure it out. So, challenges and opportunities. The first and foremost is, of course, second factor. This has been the biggest help in terms of fight or fraud, as well as the biggest problem in terms of how it is operating in India. So, for example, the second factor is help that be in regards to India for a long time. Right. If you're starting a SaaS business in India, you can't charge billion customers which is a huge pain for most of the Indian companies. So, as a result of that, you're seeing the start of the system in India cater towards SaaS companies that are entirely focused or entirely focusing on the national market rather than the Indian market. They are only accepting international credit cards. So, how many customers, how many old percentage of customers in India will actually be able to work? Actually, he does that all the time. He does that all the time. He does that all the time. He does that all the time. He does that all the time. So, there is a regulation again that comes into the picture which essentially says all cards in India are by all cards are very fall domestic unless the customer has asked for it. So, that makes sense. So, ultimately, after some time, somewhere up to three years in all cards in India are being accepted international. Which means unless you have recurring feelings which is very, very hard to get. So, yeah, of course, second factor. What other? Do you want the net payment? No. So, I'll explain what's the difference. A net payment in India is traditionally essentially a net payment that you're making from your card. All it gives you is a preferred form of payment source and a second. Which is my money to somebody else's place. So, once you initially the net transfer, it's done. There's no way you can, you know, put a net transfer on a standing instruction. Is there a difference? I have a different card. Do you have an access card? Do. I don't have a card. So, you choose things on a version. It's my... It's a standing instruction thing. But it is... So, it's only allowed essays and only allowed on using utility payments and other five factors. So, we actually explored this, and we... No. All of those things. What has been worked out? For example, you have seen Aarstar, right? Aarstar in India is actually doing kithing, kithing, kithing, kithing, kithing. How are we... So, the ABI regulations are slightly murky at this point. Not really. So, the first period is supposed to be two factors. So, what happens is they need to do a five-bit transaction to be able to put it in two factors. But after that, they can charge accounts. So, it's allowed, but only in grade cards. Grade card is called Stanley. We've been doing that, like, last month. And HDFC was kind of paying up to five after that. But they were going to have customers who say they have to pay for it. That could be... I don't know. So, all the trading companies use that. For example, your formula is supposed to sign it and it allows you to put your maximum amount and everything. That is paper-driven. That is the problem. That's why you can probably use an e-commerce. But that's changing with the regular billing. There's also this thing about Gnarch, which is the same thing for... Yeah, so... Okay. Shasham, I'm sorry. Hi, guys. Hello. Hello. You equated net banking to... Yes. Net banking happens in a time window or in the day. Yes. How do you explain that? So, net banking is not scheduled on the... on the... So, the difference is that if you go and submit a paper or issue a net transfer in your bank, the bank transfers essentially run a army job. Say, hey, I've got a bunch of transfers to be at this time. But however, when the bank itself is doing it, they can issue a net transfer there. But there's also... There's a small fee that you do net banking. If you're paying a fortune to net banking, there's no fee because merchant is being charged for that. For merchant, where is the... Yes. It's not time. Each bank has its own charges and it's higher than the other ones. So, the most payment that's... that's the most... in net banking, like... Yes. And that's why we are guaranteeing... Yes. Actually, there are all a lot of situations. For example, the card themselves, the essentially card number, the delete, the ban. However, at the same time, the friend of mine was actually saying, if my card leaks, I still can try to charge that. Yes. Because the net transfer is not defundable in India. So, yes. It's not the UK unless somebody has other questions. If your card leaks, before you report it, whatever happens, some card that is also... that's where the pressure is. If you can... I didn't say a bank that, you know, I lost my card when I called you at 6 in the morning. It's all right. It's all right. No, no, no. It's all right. Yeah. Yes. No, it depends on where the cost is. Yeah. Okay, once I got something from Reliance and the... statement that money got defunded, I didn't say, I didn't ask for a charge back that money got defunded. And then... I got a term and it was shared with you. It's not shared by you. I bought it off the net at Reliance Digital Store and I got the money back. And... No, it's not cash back. I got the money back to my account. I paid for debit card. And then... Six months later, they debited the money again. What was the term? What was the term? Okay, what happened, sir? No, sir. They have... They have... Someone would have fighting that work on you. They have... They have... They have... Okay. Yeah, but it reversed twice. It's... Six months later, you got charged again for that. It's possible to use this. It's totally somebody... They... They have paid for the debit card. I don't think there's a way that, you know, Reliance will charge you after filing for the fund. Okay. So, it's probably an issue in the financing. Okay. Yeah, let's go to the INDI. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. I'll... Okay. Okay. What does UPI change? How many of you have tried out UPI so far? How many of you have heard of UPI? Yeah. That's still good enough. Six hundred people have actually installed an application. How many of you have done UPI? Yes. Okay. How many of you understand what UPI is actually doing? I don't understand. Oh my God, that's quite a lot. I'm out of a job. Okay. Okay. Who runs UPI? NPCI. NPCI. Who owns NPCI? NPCI. I don't know. Which is essentially they are part of the precision making process. So yeah, what else? For those who don't know UPI, yeah, yeah. So UPI essentially stands for Unified Payment Interface. It's a really nice experiment. So far an experiment into how digital payments can evolve in India and become far, far better compared to other countries. So what it tries to do is link the... right on the back of the mobile audition in India. there's also a lot of customers in India getting smartphones. If people are having smartphones, how can they use smartphones to make them pay online? You know, because debit cards, NPC and army have tried out other things. There are lots and lots of schemes for you know, just giving you the cards. Our customers who receive your cards do not pay online. You've seen that in the past. Customers in India do not get credit cards. People are still preferring cash in a little. So how do we solve this problem? Let's try to write on the smartphone. Make sure that every customer with a smartphone is able to pay online by using smartphones. And bro, it's worth it? No, it's just tricky because every day, that should be out within six months of what they've said. Let's see how long they'll be. But so far it is just a few hundred smartphones. The audit box mentioned all three, which is Android, iOS and Windows. However, seeing how Windows 1 has performed in the last, since they announced it, I don't think it will ever launch on Windows, but yeah. What's on Windows? I'm feeling the work. No, no. Okay. Give it a little bit. So what UPA allows essentially is to link your smartphone to your app. I wanna see how that's now. You know, this equating to your bank account. This essentially means a mobile number. You can do lots of interesting things on top of this. Assuming that the majority of the people in the smartphone are smart, I don't own a smartphone, but the majority of them do not have it. And then it's just, okay, six. Okay. Once you have this mapping, you can do lots of things. For example, there's two people who want to transfer money to each other. Yes, they know their phone numbers. Can we just move money between them? Yes, we can. So that is essentially one of the first things that UPA will do. It brings P2P payments, which hasn't ever been approached as a problem in India. So you have P2P, but aren't going to do the payment. So at the end of the day, okay, I'll talk about what UPA does. So UPA essentially is an app transfer between point A to point B, which writes on smartphones. So in order to authorize an image, you need a smartphone. However, at the end of the day, it's essentially an IMD is trusted. So what happens internally is, you know, I'm profiting money from my backup to somebody else's back account. It will essentially internally make an IMD trusted from my backup to your backup. However, if I try to transfer money from my backup to somebody else's profile number, it will essentially say, hey, who owns this mobile? Does this person have a backup? Yes, let's move money there. So that's how UPA internally drafts things. But even at a site, it allows for P2P payments. So now you can easily, for example, let's say if you want to transfer money to a back account right now, how do you do that? Logically or fully? Logically an attacking thing. Add a value for you, wait 30 minutes. Hope it works, because transfer money doesn't then send it over. But yeah. How do you do it by PDA? How do you do it by PDA? So PDA has the wanted thing. It's just a different PDA wanted app that you can use to transfer money. However, there are limitations in that. What does a client app do with PDA? Yeah, so the way it works is you should have been back with a logic for an application that you can use to sign up for UPA. But UPA will eventually give you, other than your mobile number as a login, essentially something called a PDA, which is a virtual payment address. So once you have that virtual payment address, it will be something like NUMO at ICICI. Once I have that, people can pay to it and I can pay from it. And the nice beautiful thing about this concept is that the other party who I'm paying to doesn't get any of the details by PDA. So, for example, in the case of credit cards, this is going to charge a credit card. We need to know the credit card number. So in this case, what happens is I get my LVL and it appears to be on the side of the merchant and somebody who is in ICICI has paid me. They don't have enough information about who to figure out to actually charge other transactions. If you have my money, yes, you can do things like that. But in this case, it's fine. Now, one number is only equal to one PPA So you can have one too many mafics but they are not currently on. Right now, one too many mafics. It's not like you don't have apps. You know, on phones, they are actually... Yeah, okay. What do you see? There's not a lot of apps. Smaller phone verification. You don't have the money. You don't have the money. Phone. Phone. Okay, sir. Yes, sir. So you pay a consumer application. But essentially, the multiple banks which are cost-efficient, they don't really have... Phone is another thing you pay and that is cost-efficient, then you lose to... It's the same thing. You don't have the money from you who pay other customers. But yeah, so... A, it brings you free to be absent. What other things does you pay and bring to the market? But how do your charging thing work? Can't spend for my friend openly? What is the amount of money that you charge? It's free. Thank you. So... Yes, yes, you know that time... No, no, no. It's the same thing. Yeah, it's just for our friend. So basically, government wants to promote digital economy and everything. So what the strategy is that P to M where you pay to a merchant, that's going to be paid by the merchant. But P to B is going to be free because they want to promote you paying why are you here. And... P to B? Yes. So the bank is available to us. Who will be the bank itself? Bank? Who? So that's... What other things does he pay to you? It can be faster than easier payments. So, for example, can see what happens in a bank address. You have to actually wait for it to be paid. It's not across one bank. But the duration model so far has been to wait for it to be paid before the end of the second factor. In this case, how the second factor is actually in hand which you can decide in the region how it remains the same for each and every baby for a bank account. He generated it. He generated it once. He generated it once. He subred it once. And then he can be used. Which means he generated it in terms of the type of footage of the process that he made. And he came up with it. Which is a real question. And then, they also need your phone. Yeah. So... No, it's same like that. Like... You can't... Everyone is becoming an authentication. Right? Everyone becomes an authentication. Yeah. So you need to... He's like, a factor is still your engine. So don't tell your MP to people. Okay. I'm going to store your MP. Light your app. Okay. If you say I'm upgrading my dead turn. Yes, of course. You have to. Yes. Of course. But yeah. Keep an eye on me, yourself. The second time, yeah. It brings you far more easy of your free time. So what happens... This is what we have discussed so far in the P2P phase. Where, you know, I can type to somebody else. We type to somebody else. One other. And we should agree with them. And they get their money. Because they know who that phone account has. But he can also do P2M payments. Which is essentially the merchant asking you for money. So that is the nice second time that you've been to David. Which is kind of like, you can, as a merchant, you can ask money from other companies. The merchants just advertise their PPA. No. If you advertise your PPA, others will have to pay you. And they'll have to send you off. What you instead want to do is ask for money and say, hey, I've got a ticket. I've got a ticket to Hasky. We're trying to buy a ticket to Hasky. I want you to pay me exactly $5,000. So what happens is that we show a connected quest. Is that the other customer will get a notification on the phone. And I get four digits on the phone. And I go, I don't get a direct notification. Yes. So the merchants, they have no more storing card numbers. They have no more storing card numbers. Card numbers, storage, safety, safety, safety. Yeah, no extra hardware. You're relying on the customer to do the hardware things, right? You have to just issue a valid request and you can do whatever you want. So how does a merchant return payment to the world? Is there anything like M2P? No, so that's it. Yes. The way I talked about refunds earlier, right? So there are two kinds of funds. You can pay in source refunds, which is, you have to move the money to the exact same challenge that came through. In the case of, for example, debt banking, when you issue a refund, the bank may internally you can ask it as a refund, but it's just another e-fee transaction from you to the end customer. Okay? Similarly, in the case of UPI, when you're essentially, since I only get the e-fee of the customer, right? I only say, they need my DICC and they pay 5,000 bucks for a conference ticket. Now I want the reimbursement money back to the Emo and DICC. So the bank needs to provide a way to, you know, move money back to Emo and DICC, which is better than that. So it's actually a paid request that they move the money back and forth. What's the evidence? We went to insurance and support. What? We went to insurance and support. What? We went to insurance and support. We went to insurance and support. A debit card, a credit card. No. So in order to get a UPI handle, you need to have a debit card. You need to have a bank card and you need to have a phone number that will send you a bank card. So once you, if you're investing on the app itself, I'll ask you for, you know, your debit card needs to be verified that you actually You can also verify your phone number at the same time to make sure that the phone that you use is the same phone number that you registered on your bank account. And there will issue you a VPN that you can use to make up actually. So can I also play on Ethereum? Can you also be afraid? No. You pay some bank accounts of a kind of an interventionally, which means you can just do bank accounts from point A to point B. So there's a very high risk. And bank accounts to what? No. So this is the key point. You pay a result of an MPS, so you can't really have one account that you use. So with payment times, this may change from that to the end of the day. Okay. So you know the merchant account can be a current account. Customers account will be his base. Is that how it works? Yes. So yeah, if you have payments that you want to pay merchants and the merchant can decide where you plan. Those are kind of two things that you pay us and you pay them nicely. What are the advantages of you know who will do UPI for a merchant? If you have started an idea and you want to do something in the UPI space, UPI is the thing for you to pay up. You want to move money from point A to point B. And if you see a file, it's easier for you to do it than ever before. Otherwise, let's say if you were trying to pay something like Venmo in ADL, two years back, how do you do that? How many of you know what Venmo is? Okay. Venmo is actually a European payment for people think that you have had a difference. Okay. So I mean using it for many customers in the US also jump down the bandwagon. But the world market has achieved the European payments that you can pay out to your friends and sell your file for this. If you want to do something like this in India, you really have no choice. You really have absolutely no way till UPI graduate with something like this. So Chilean was trying to do something. So Chilean was trying to do things. So now we have the European payments. So what distinguishes UPI and UPI? What distinguishes UPI and UPI when your relationship with the bandwagon? If you have already dealt with the customer, you have actually So what distinguishes UPI and UPI? What distinguishes UPI and UPI when your relationship with the bandwagon? If you have already dealt with the customer, you have actually dealt with UPI and UPI means However, if you are trying to, if you have a current account, you won't get an AES. If you have a current account, you need to get an AES. If you want to download a consumer app and link it to a current account or download an account or so a business cannot take money for six months. So if I want to test out five of the UPI and UPI, is there a UPI either as a left and right? No. So we start building things around UPI. So you talk to class. So the way ADK has structured so far, we are trying to fix this, and we say it's actually not UPI, it's a keyboard game yet, which is accessible to the class. And if you get access to ADK, it's improved up to the class. So that's actually sponsoring your access to UPI. So which band should I pick? Anyone? Any one. Any of the bands of mine can be for the AES. The biggest one, which adorns it is UPI. IPN be launched, but we'll be launched here. Access and... Access, an AES brand, a PCP... PCP... Karataba. Karataba. There are models. This is 10, 12, something like that. Do you want one man? Do you want one man? Do you want one man? Do you want one man? Do you want one man? Do you want one man? Yes. There's no other reason that he's conscious. So similar to how an acquiring man could, you know, if they're helping you capture the entire market. Similar to that, if you talk to one man, he can do the excess. He has to get excess to the entire company. Or whatever it is that he's actually interested in. Should I have any preference on taking a bank, like if Axis has bank after bank, or even if you have it. Figure out your use cases. What exactly is it that you're trying to do? What kind of exchange is it? Like, would there be difference? Yes, yes. So you can actually tell me there's lots and lots of exchange and the bank side is like, you know, it was... Is there some end point or who do I talk to? Let's say I want to talk to Yes Bank today. What at Yes Bank, should I send it? There is a digital payment support. It could be only every single bank. That would be the right body. But it's not that easy to practice the whole thing. They probably got it wrong. Very honest. If I take on how big you are. There's a lot of leverage. So, yeah. It's like debt is just banking, account is in Mumbai. So they are the ones who are... Yes. So these things happen. We have meetings with banks in a week. Is it like you open up the membership? No. So we are looking to do things around the sandboxing. So NPCI has an attached sandbox. The problem is to get asked to the sandboxer to do a lot of paperwork. And they are still thinking about who they are going to be with the sandboxing. So that's still a challenge. But there are ways around it. Probably companies... Some companies can come out with an identical API set that you can build at. So I was looking at the NPCI APIs. They have certain things that you need to have. You need to guarantee a lack of transactions in the first three months. You need to have this kind of paid off capital and so on. So that's really a challenge. Even those that we are talking about. So EKBS was given to PSP. These are all PSPs. Yeah. And that PSP is holding the reputation. Because they don't want to be living out there. They want to put in reputation. But government will not put it by... So which bank is the friendiest? Their friendiest. Good question. I want to find out myself. So with regards to business, right now every single bank on EKBS is very death friendly. Because everybody wants to have some startup with something that can be in merchants or us. So right now most banks you will find out very friendly. However death friendly is not the same as... A friendly. Yeah. So even though they may be able to give you developer resources at the same time. Yeah. The same. No, the external is just one part of it. The problem is because the banks are exposing their own set of APIs which they have done. Which may not be as reliable. So it depends on what quality of APIs that you are getting from there. So the UPI API docs will not work. It will not work. As long as you work with dynamic API docs. Yes. So that's the medium that's going to be available. Where are recurring payments coming? Recurring payments are planned in UPI-V2 which is still in process. So you may get to hear about the drop-in factor. So it's kind of the same maybe. And then we can... When it comes to the order, it will actually be open to everybody. Like you don't have to work. Absolutely. So what's going to happen is that anybody can apply to be a PST. So you can apply that to a company who wants to be a PST. Which wants that access to NPCS. They will be rules on that. But right now the condition is only pass can be. So it's very limited. It's going to open up a bit. But never in such a way that a random developer can go to NPCS and get keys and start to do it. They will pay for that. I don't think they will. They will try to... They need a dedicated lease line to the data centers and so on. Now for all of the PSTs. Well, you can have a SAP talk for quite a while. It's not required as I've already said. It does require your customers to be in the end. It doesn't require your... And you do get it. She can give you the keys and all those things. Set up a proper... But it doesn't require a dedicated lease line from NPCS. So in the EKYC, right? To be a KSA, you need to have a dedicated lease line to... I think it will make more sense because... Yeah, it will make more sense. I don't know if this guy has moved to the document. But can we just recap so that we can have your graph with me also? Okay. I think in recap, I'll take a bunch of questions. And obviously there are a lot of people that are doing some space. So we can take all the conversations and move on to the rest of the people. Yes. To tomorrow morning. You don't get to kill that many people. Yeah. So, yeah. We started off with the issue of being given as an idea. How exactly are you going to be getting it out? What exactly is that being given as an idea? Not just, you know, process money in India. But also trying to capture a market share between the impacted billion, relative growths that you're seeing, except to the single 2020. So the idea is about making sure that each of you are on the customer who's coming online and trying to pay. And being able to move that you're seeing. And being able to move that you're seeing. All of these can go really quickly. This is the thing that's cool. What does, amazingly, we do with process money movement? It's also fraud. It's also a kind of a funding game. It's also a kind of charge back. It's also a kind of funds. It's a typically complex problem there. You can have the whole entire company, for example, the company that's entirely just to start the game. And we're going to be able to expect you to move all of these together. Challenges and opportunities. We talked a bit about regulations in India. We're not going to go over any factors. It's still, you know, murky in India. Some companies are getting through it. We always had tiny instructions in India. But they were always limited to, they were limited to key payments and so on. However, what happens, for example, if I decided to put a magical coin into the funding and say, hey, two factors are now disabled across extra actions where X could be a condition that's important. What all can change? That's the line. Finally, we talked a bit about UBI. What UBI brings to the table. It brings us a really, really nice payment experience on the mobile phones. There's a huge, you know, condition apply, I think, which is you need a smartphone, you need a laptop, and you need to have anti-transverse enabled. What's the thing with that? You need to have different cards. Which is actually a really big condition for us. We're getting a card that's not open anywhere in India. But yeah. In our UBI, which brings us UBI and payments, we can also ask customers for your money. And they think, hey, can you pay me the money for this particular thing that you just bought? And so on. Yeah, that is where we chat today. I'm closing for now. We can have a discussion. Yes, so Nino, thank you so much for talking today. And Nino, you did a great job. You might want to talk to you in the next 15 months. Thank you. So, unless you have very, very pressing questions, I think we should let Nino go. Thank you. And obviously, all of you are going to continue the conversation. Thank you. Thank you.