 Thank you, John, for the kind introduction. I really appreciate that. I'm really honored to be here. I'm always looking for an excuse to come back to this side of the bay. And I'm really glad I'm here. And thank you all for coming here. So I'm going to talk about some of the key kind of leapfrogging opportunities that exist in India's energy future and how India is kind of at a unique position right now to leapfrog to some of the cleaner energy future in the next one or two decades and why these two decades are kind of important for changing the course of India's energy policy. So I think John already talked about where I work. So I work at the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, which is a U.S. DOE and the other university in the Bay Area managed lab, UC Berkeley. So we are a fairly large group in a sense that the lab is like more than 4,000 scientists, but we in the International Energy Studies Department, we are a fairly small group of about 20, 30 people working on India, China, many Southeast Asian countries, and several African countries. All right. So I'm going to quickly give you some overview of the energy sector in India because which is quite different from what we have been seeing in the U.S. or in Europe. And then I'll give you some very high level political economy context and I'll kind of just as an illustration talk about these four major leapfrogging opportunities and these are not by any means kind of an exhaustive list but just as an indication, as an example of big opportunities. Room ACs in terms of enhancing their energy efficiency or also changing the refrigerants, changing the HFCs with newer refrigerants. Renewable energy in India. Transport electrification, switching to electric vehicles and forth is enhancing access to electricity or energy broadly. All right. So India is kind of expected to be one of the largest energy markets in the next two to three decades. So between 2016 and 2040 or 2050, India would be the largest contributor to the additional energy demand that may come in that time frame. So most of the China's energy sector has kind of grown already. China is kind of reaching a plateau and India is where China was about 10 to 15 years ago and that's why these next two decades are kind of important for India. So these two charges show where India is and where China is and where U.S. is. So this chart shows the number of cars per thousand people. In the U.S. we have about 800 to 900 cars per thousand people. Only about 600 cars. China about 50 to 60 cars per thousand people and India is way down here about 15 on average cars per thousand people and this is kind of growing pretty rapidly. In terms of how much coal and gas of electricity generation capacity exists in the country, China is like 1,000 gigawatts or 1 terawatt of coal and gas capacity. India is roughly about 900 gigawatts of coal, 100 gigawatts of gas and U.S. we are roughly about 800 to 900 gigawatts, which is kind of split between coal and gas equally. And India is only about 200 gigawatts and it is expanding very, very rapidly. The population of India and China is approximately the same. So India could be where China is right now over the next two to three decades and this has kind of two problems. Number one is there is something called as committed carbon. So if this much of coal capacity or gas capacity already exists on the ground then it's very hard to kind of replace that old stranded asset and replace that with the cleaner energy option. So it's much cheaper to do it right the first time and this is where India has this biggest opportunity. As I said, most of the energy infrastructure in India is yet to be built. For example, India's electricity demand in 2030 is expected to be about 400 to 500 gigawatts and it is today about 150 gigawatts. So we are talking about tripling of the electricity grid over the next 15 years or so. That's a significant increase but most of that infrastructure is yet to be built about 70% of the infrastructure, not just energy infrastructure but roads and natural gas pipelines and coal mines and so on and so forth is yet to be built which means that India kind of lags more than one to two trillion dollars in terms of stranded fossil assets behind that of China and US and that's why it's kind of crucial to act now. This is just an overview of how India's energy mix is structured. So this is the total primary energy supply in India as you can see is largely dominated by coal. More than half of India's primary energy is from coal. About 30% is from oil and about 20% from the other sources. And this chart here shows the total electricity generation. So out of this coal, most of this coal about 75% of the coal is spent on generating electricity and out of the total electricity coal generates about 75% of the electricity. India doesn't have a lot of natural gas so only about 45% energy comes from natural gas and the rest is from hydro, nuclear and renewables. So the share of renewables though is kind of increasing pretty rapidly in the last two to three years. So I think the key takeaway from this slide is that although India has not grown yet most of the current energy supply is dominated by coal and India does not have a lot of natural gas so most of the newer additions to the energy supply will likely be from coal based energy. Alright so this shows how much of India's energy is kind of imported. So this is coal and this is gas. The bottom part shows the domestic production and the top part shows the imports. As you can see the coal imports are kind of gradually increasing roughly about 20% of India's coal is currently imported and going forward it is going to be in that ballpark, expected to be in that ballpark about 20 to 25% of coal being imported. On the oil front though domestic production for the last 10 years so in fact this line actually stretches back all the way to 1990 is just flat. There is just no new oil discovery so about 75 to 80% of India's oil is imported and as India's transport demand because of urbanization and rising incomes is going to grow further all this newer demand is going to be met essentially only by imports. So this has kind of two major implications. One is of course the energy security of the country where 90% of oil is kind of imported has serious implications for energy security. And second is the vulnerability of the country to oil price and supply shocks which is quite significant. So in general about 40 to 50% of India's carbon or about 40% of India's primary energy is imported. So this kind of again creates another opportunity where if the clean energy replaces the imported energy then this kind of benefits on multiple levels ranging from energy security to price and supply shocks and so on and so forth. So all this is true and also the clean energy costs have been dropping significantly as we are kind of experiencing that even in the US the solar prices have dropped the wind prices have dropped and so on and so forth but in India the drop is fairly dramatic. So this chart shows the levelized cost of energy from different energy sources as you can see here. So solar PV this is all solar PV. So in the last five years the solar PV prices in India have dropped from nearly 12 cents per kilowatt hour to about 4 cents maybe a little lower than 4 cents per kilowatt hour or about 80% drop in just five years. No, this is no subsidy. This is all market driven reverse auctions. And that's so this is something called I wouldn't exactly call it policy innovation but so what India did is India kind of the federal government in conjunction with the state government has kind of identified a good site for solar plants identified kind of credit worthy buyers for the solar plants and guaranteed a transmission connection and then did reverse auctions on that specific site with all these guaranteed buyers and transmission connection which takes away the integration risk takes away the purchasing risk and so on and so forth and that's why that kind of experienced this drop and the most recent utility scale solar prices in the U.S. are in the same ballpark about 4 to 5 cents per kilowatt hour. But you left out the subsidy from the backup. Sun doesn't shine any more in India than it does here so we have gas backup, you have coal backup. That's exactly right. You hit the nail on its head. That's the problem. That's why people don't understand real energy. Absolutely. So this is the levelized cost and this does not talk about the value of solar which may be very different. So this is just the levelized cost and you may have to spend extra to make sure that you also have electricity in the night and in the evenings when the sun doesn't shine. Absolutely right. And that's one of the major problems. So this is about the wind cost. So wind costs have been fairly flat for the last 5 years and you can actually stretch this line even 5 years before 2012 and wind prices have been fairly flat out. There has not been much change. Recently there was another reverse auction similar to solar auctions for wind and that kind of saw some drop in the wind costs but which is not super significant. Now the reason why the solar cost reduction is kind of important is because it is already now competing with the coal costs right here which is about 4 to 5 cents per kilowatt hour and it's already lower than the imported gas-based electricity. India doesn't have a lot of domestic gas so most of the marginal units are essentially the imported gas-based units and so it is already kind of competing favorably with the imported gas units. However, one has to realize that 1 kilowatt hour from coal-based power does not necessarily equal 1 kilowatt hour from solar-based electricity because of intermittency, because of the seasonal nature, because of solar only generated during the middle of the day and so on and so forth. So it's not a direct kilowatt hour to kilowatt hour comparison but it is indeed an important comparison. So in terms of energy efficiency so look at the LED prices in India. So in India over the last 2 years they ran the world's largest LED program so they distributed more than 200 million LED bulbs in a span of 18 months without any subsidy and there are kind of again significant policy innovation there what they did is a federal energy services company which is kind of typically unheard of all the energy services companies are private but India actually formed a federal government-owned energy services company they invited global players to bid in India's LED market they actually bought those LEDs and distributed to customers and kept some margin of course and that kind of brought the LED because of the demand aggregation bought the LED prices down from about 5 to 6 dollars a unit in just September 2014 less than 3 years away, 3 years ago to about half a dollar with the recent auctions that they have done so they have already distributed more than 220 million LED bulbs in India so far. So what kind of the shows is clean energy costs are dropping when most of the infrastructure is yet to be built in India and which kind of gives it some kind of political acceptance because of these falling costs as I mentioned part of the cost reduction is of course because of the global market trends but the part is also driven by policy innovation with India's reverse auctions on solar with India's reverse auctions on LEDs and so on. Alright so another important aspect of India's energy sector is local environmental problems so outdoor air quality I don't know if many of you have traveled to India but air quality in India is one of the worst in the world so recently last year the average air quality in Delhi was actually worse than Beijing Beijing was supposed to be the worst air quality city in the world but not anymore it's now New Delhi in India as the worst air quality city in the world so outdoor air quality right here is already kind of fifth largest cause of premature deaths in India and it's kind of gaining increasing political traction to act on these local environmental problems and this is just an example of air quality but similar issues are kind of being raised for water quality, water shortages and so on and so forth so these local environmental problems are also a driver for some action on clean energy especially with the local governments and with some of the state governments so now these are essentially some of the opportunities for clean energy but also there are significant challenges and one of the biggest challenge in case of India is kind of financially bankrupt public electric utilities so most of the electric utilities in India are publicly owned while it kind of helps deliver some of the developmental objectives but it also creates significant governance challenges and one of the biggest challenges that the public ownership of the electric utilities is the financial accountability or non-accountability for that matter so this shows in fiscal year 2015 the total expenditure of all the utilities in India was roughly about 65 billion dollars okay and the total revenue that they earned was only about 45 billion dollars and the government put in about 10 billion dollars of additional subsidy and even with that they are about 10 billion dollars short in just meeting their annual expenditure so the financial loss in just one year is about 10 billion dollars which is roughly about 1% of India's GDP and this is not just one off year this has been happening for the last several years and the accumulated losses of all the public utilities have been in excess of 100 billion dollars and the purchasing power parity in India's GDP is roughly about 2 trillion dollars so this is significant and so this kind of also shows some limitations of the economic regulations so India's electricity sector is exactly regulated as it is in the US so each state has its own public utilities commission that regulates the utilities but in India those utilities are public utilities and economic regulation does not always work with the public ownership so while public ownership has kind of created significant governance challenges on the other hand because of public ownership of the electricity infrastructure as well as most of the fuels infrastructure there is no organized private interest against clean energy so which again kind of acts as an opportunity for some aggressive action on clean energy alright just to summarize so there are kind of four key kind of levels for any energy action specifically clean energy action in India cost does it increase the cost for the utilities because utilities are financially bankrupt or on the verge of bankruptcy so that's extremely important for the utilities second is what happens to energy security as we saw 25% of coal is going to be imported 90% of oil is expected to be imported so energy security is important and also access to energy about 200 to 250 million people in India which is about 20 to 25% of India's population about 50 million households lack access to electricity they just don't have an electricity connection at their home and so government is working on extending that access but because of the public ownership of the utilities is being sluggish it's been lacking behind the third kind of driver is local environmental problems and I've written air quality but this is largely local environmental problems such as air quality and fourth which is a more recent kind of driver for energy action is India kind of committed to fairly aggressive NDCs in the Paris climate agreement so India committed to reducing its energy intensity of GDP by about 30 to 35% by 2030 and India also committed to installing 175 gigawatts of renewables by 2020 I don't want you to get bogged down by the numbers but the fact is that India did commit to fairly aggressive climate mitigation plan in the Paris climate agreement and at least the federal government seems pretty driven to achieve those targets and there are significant policy actions that are being taken for this achievement alright so with this background let's quickly jump to the key leapfrogging opportunities so let's start with room ACs then we'll move on to renewable energy then we move on to transport and then quickly gloss over energy access alright let's look at room air conditioners so this chart shows all the major metropolises around the world all the major cities in the world ranked by their cooling degree days so cooling degree days is essentially just a measure of how much cooling is required in that specific city so higher the cooling degree days which means the city is very hot or humid and you need more air conditioner use in that city and the size of the bubble essentially indicates the population in those cities so let's look at some of the most populous Chinese cities say Shanghai Beijing it's pretty populous but pretty low on the scale of cooling degree days let's look at Miami it's pretty high on cooling degree days but population not as high let's look at LA right here Madrid, Mexico City and let's look at all the major Indian cities Mumbai, Delhi, Calcutta, Chennai Bangkok right here from Thailand so all the cities very hot and very populous which means that going forward as people get richer the demand for room air conditioner is going to be is going to be increasing and the reason that is important is this happened in China so I want you to focus on this blue line just focus on the blue line don't look at any other lines this blue line so what this chart shows is the room AC penetration in China over the last 20-30 years from 1980s to 2010 so look and this is only urban China does not include rural China so look where the room AC penetration was in China around 1992 just when the country was kind of growing incomes were increasing almost non-existent which means that for every 100 urban Chinese households hardly one or two had an air conditioner in 1992 jumped to 2007 100 ACs per 100 urban Chinese households so which means an addition of nearly 200 million air conditioners in a span of 15 years and this means an addition of about 300 gigawatts of peak load and 300 gigawatts just to give a scale of things is five times or six times that of California grid so this addition of six California's with just one appliance in a span of 15 years and this is the scale we are talking about and this is exactly what we see India is and this is India was in 2014 right on this cusp so in a span of 10 to 15 years one can expect such explosive growth in AC and what we expect and this is kind of also evident from how the room AC sales have been growing in India 15 to 20% growth each year for the last 10 years or so consistently growing and room AC is kind of typically considered as one of the kind of those threshold appliances that people acquire once they pass a certain income threshold and this is kind of combined with the fact that room AC prices have fallen by about 50 to 60% in real terms over the last decade or so alright and one last point I want to make is the Chinese AC penetration increased when their cooling degree days were really low Indian cooling degree days are really high so which means that ACs are the first appliance people want to buy once they cross a specific income threshold alright and why ACs are important is because of this one room AC this is a conservative estimate consumes about at least 1000 watts or 1 kilowatt of electricity at any given point this is conservative actually this is about 1500 or so but say conservative about 1000 kilowatts and these are all the other typical appliances used in a middle class Indian household ceiling fans, incandescent bulb, tube lights, TVs refrigerator all put together not even half of one air conditioner and that's why this room AC demand is absolutely crucial and could be make or break for India's electricity sector going forward what we estimate is up to 2030 it can add up to about 150 gigawatts of electricity load in India's electricity sector so if you can recall India's current electricity load is about 150 gigawatts so it's adding another India just by one appliance in the next 15 years so this is quite significant so addition of 200 to 300 large power plants and of course in India power plants mean coal power plants in the next 15 years alright and this is kind of playing out already in the current utilities and how room AC load is kind of shaping or changing India's grid so for example these are the load curves which means the electrical load for each hour of the day in the two major cities this is mostly residential commercial load high-end residential high-end commercial load pretty rich cities Mumbai and Delhi the richest richest cities in India so the blue line shows the typical day in the summer and the red line shows the typical day in winter look at this difference this is all residential and commercial load so why is the nighttime load so different is essentially because of all the AC load look at this afternoon peaking load in summer and a dip in the afternoon in winter because there is no AC load already so this is essentially going to be quite crucial for India's energy sector and there are significant opportunities so we did kind of assess using commercially available technologies what are the ways to enhance the efficiency of their conditioners and what we found is using commercially available technologies the AC load could be reduced by about 50 to 60 gigawatts by roughly by about 40 to 50% by 2030 number is not important the point is there is significant potential that exists but there are also significant market failures that exist that kind of make these energy efficiency enhancement kind of difficult or in some cases impossible and that's why some kind of policy motivation on policy push is crucial I wouldn't go into details of why utilities is no incentive but I'll be more than happy to take questions on that later let's quickly move on to the next part the renewable energy I don't have much time left I'm going to wrap in about 5 to 10 minutes so let me kind of whispass this thing so there are kind of three main takeaways from this slide takeaway number one is resource potential is not a concern for renewable energy in India India has practically unlimited solar energy resource and India has very large wind energy resource to the order of about 3000 gigawatts and actually Sally and I were talking about how this number 3000 gigawatts came up so the official government estimate was only about 100 gigawatts of wind potential so we actually reassess the potential 5 years ago and we found out that the potential is not 100 gigawatts but it's actually 3000 gigawatts which makes sense because the US potential is about 12000 gigawatts Chinese potential is 6000 gigawatts how can India's potential be 100 gigawatts so that kind of prompted us to do this reassessment the second key takeaway is the clean energy costs have been reducing consistently and these are cost, these are levelized costs does not necessarily mean the value has been increasing but the costs have been dropping and this is to respond to your point the discussions on grid parity though are kind of misleading so solar energy coming at 4 cents, 5 cents per kilowatt hour and coal available at 4 and 5 cents so now clean energy has achieved grid parity that discussion is kind of misleading because of the intermittency and the diurnal nature of the renewable energy and the third important point is solar and wind profiles in India are kind of complementary to each other and what I mean by that is I'll show you right here so this chart shows the wind generation in the month of July, this is actual data in July 2012 in California and in India just look at how the wind pattern is so this is California, this is actual California ISO data so each line is each day of the month in June so there are 31 lines 31 days and this is the average wind profile, peaks at night it kind of dips in the middle of the day and this is India one of the most wind rich states in India the state of Tamil Nadu which is exactly opposite to that of California it actually is daytime peaking and in summer peaking, in California the wind is winter peaking nighttime peaking when we need it the least in India the wind is daytime peaking and summer peaking when we need it the most and that's why the value of wind energy in India is much higher than it is in the US and this is I'm sure all of you have heard of the duck chart so duck chart is essentially shows the load and the net load which is load minus all the renewable energy generation in a specific duration so for example this is projected 2030 for the month of a typical day in the month of May projected 2030 so this is how the load may look like about 400 gigawatts of peak load in the month of May typical and for different penetrations of renewable energy this is how the net load curve looks like and net load is something that your conventional generators have to meet your coal and gas and nuclear and hydro and so on and so forth and this is kind of keeps going down down down but even at 33% renewable energy which is the current AB32 target in case of India the belly doesn't really belly of the duck doesn't really reach all the way to zero or doesn't really go to very low levels and there are kind of two reasons for this reason number one is that India's load is increasing in case of California the load is fairly stagnant the load growth is fairly small but in case of India as the renewable penetration increases the load also increases and with AC load and all other types of load this daytime peak is only going to increase going further and second is because of this favorable wind energy generation this kind of helps in balancing out kind of flattening out this belly fairly well across the morning hours alright so again two key takeaways takeaway number one is wind energy pattern in India is quite helpful to that to the demand and to the grid and second wind and solar kind of have complementary patterns so grid integration is kind of less of an obstacle in India than in California but one also has to consider the financially distressed utilities so any kind of incremental cost of renewables we are talking about is going to be met with significant opposition especially by the utilities and that's where the role of policy innovation and role of newer policy instruments is quite crucial alright I'm going to wrap this up in exactly one minute transport electrification so again there are two major takeaways here one is I don't know again if anyone of you have traveled to India the driving conditions are extremely congested but which also means that there are significant benefits to driving electric vehicles or hybrid vehicles because you are you're breaking, you're idling, you're accelerating a lot more than you would do it here so we kind of did a few simulations and what we found out is electric vehicles actually have 50% higher benefits in India than they have in US or Europe and this is primarily because of these three factors that I mentioned breaking idling and acceleration second important point is range requirements in India are much shorter people travel smaller distances and people also travel in smaller vehicles, smaller cars smaller motorcycles so that's why the battery capacity that is required for each car is much smaller which makes them cheaper and which also makes them more efficient because they are lighter and third is India has fairly strong auto manufacturing lobby and that private interest is significantly ambitious kind of in terms of expanding their global reach so they do want to be leaders in EV manufacturing and that's why they could kind of latch on to this electric vehicle opportunity. Now one of the common criticisms is well you know India doesn't have enough electricity to feed its current electrical load how can it sustain the electric vehicles so we kind of did a simulation again and by 2030 what we found out is this additional load due to EV charging is a small sliver in the total electricity load is only about 5 to 6% of the total electricity load because the other loads are increasing so rapidly mainly ACs and industrial and other commercial load that this EV load is a pretty small fraction and the third major criticism of EVs well you know India's grid is coal heavy so you are actually just shifting your emissions from oil to coal wouldn't it actually increase the greenhouse gas emissions then no we actually conducted those simulations and the reason is that EVs are inherently more efficient than the conventional IC engine vehicles so that's why if you look at this bar chart this gray line shows the CO2 emissions in grams per, grams of CO2 per kilometer by the conventional IC engine vehicles this shows if the grid was entirely powered by the by coal well not entirely powered but it's a coal heavy grid as it exists today then what would be the emissions per kilometer and if it is renewables heavy grid what would be the emissions per kilometer and as you can see even if it is a coal heavy grid you could get an emissions reduction of about 20 to 30% on a grams per kilometer basis. Alright one last point is energy access and then I'm going to stop so as I mentioned a lot of people don't have access to electricity and one of the options of enhancing energy access is how about enhancing the efficiency of that consumption so for example you see a system here we have a prototype in our lab developed a 23 inch TV 2 LED lamps, a table fan a cell phone charger, a radio all put together consuming less than 25 watts and all of this can be powered by the small solar panel with 40 watt peak output and all this can be essentially we provided a battery support with a standard 70 ampere or standard 100 to 150 watt hour or laptop battery that we typically use anyway. So which is kind of potentially game changing in the energy access debate and I'll be happy to take questions specifically on that because I don't have much time to talk more about this. So I think I'll just stop here just to recapitulate the kind of significantly frogging opportunities in the clean energy sector in India and this is the time to act but significant policy innovation is kind of required given those unique governance challenges that I talked about. Thank you. A little time for questions. Let's start with the students mostly in the back. Any student questions? Do you comment on the potential for energy storage? Sure. Yeah, energy storage would be quite crucial especially with this renewable heavy grid but it's also kind of limited by the cost right now but going forward especially battery storage is absolutely crucial. There are kind of other forms of storage but there are kind of several barriers to that for example hydro is one of them and all other forms are kind of inefficient relative to the batteries so batteries and hydro are the two kind of commonly considered storage options in India out of which batteries are kind of on the hold because of the cost but it is kind of being considered fairly seriously a few years down the line so all the frameworks are kind of getting made right now the policy frameworks. Question or questions? So I've seen in the news that India had a new national electricity plan saying that effectively no new coal plants to be needed in India which was maybe sort of confusing given the trends that you've discussed increasing demand and high local supply of coal and butter which you think about that. Sure. So what that says is they have 50 gigawatts of coal plants in pipeline so they wouldn't need anything more than those 50 gigawatts planned until 2027 so that's essentially something called as national electricity plan which only has a horizon of 5 to 10 years but we are talking about 20 to 30 years a long-term kind of horizon and in that horizon I mean you would need significant additional coal capacity that being said though the current coal capacity is pretty inefficiently used horribly managed so there is a lot of scope for improvement in that but the coal capacity will still be required. Any other student questions? Not yet. It's fair. In filling up on this theme, across your leapfrogging categories can you talk about how you see the potential implementation pathways and where there might be openings for getting leapfrogging as compared to where the constraints would be biggest? Sure. I think that's a great point. So in terms of getting leapfrogging so any kind of new systems that may be implemented that's where most of the leapfrogging opportunities or in terms of implementation that would be kind of easier to implement because of three reasons. Reason number one is any new systems that get created in India they work pretty well at least in the initial few years because it doesn't have the baggage of the old governance problems so with that lens energy access comes to mind so providing super efficient appliances with battery backup that takes away the utility disincentive of not supplying electricity to the subsidized customers but also has all the benefits of market-based auctions of market-based programs with bulk procurement can reduce the cost down and so on and so forth so that comes to mind first the second is electric vehicles because most of the vehicles are yet to be bought and third is appliance efficiency or room AC efficiency in this specific case because it's a one institution that just needs to change its minimum energy performance standards and then things will take away on its own. Can you explain about the energy in solar energy I was wondering what do you see as the role for the other types of renewable energy in the future of India? So there are kind of two major other renewable energies that are being considered one is small hydro, smaller micro hydro and the other is biomass for biomass I personally think wind and solar will be the main stage of renewable energy and small hydro and biomass will be kind of on the fringe and the main reason for that is for biomass there is a lot of other supply chain issues that need to be worked out distribution systems and so on and second for small hydro because it's a hydro plant just getting the permissions and so on and so forth is a long challenge in itself and hydro potential in itself in India is kind of limited and most of it is already kind of exhausted so going forward wind and solar will be the main stage One of the advantages of wind and solar is that they don't use water like thermal electricity generation plants do is that a big enough deal to be a driver politically in India to reduce the number of new fossil fuel plants? Not entirely but as I mentioned in a few kind of for a few local governments yes so for example so water coal plants using water has already kind of become a political issue in a few local elections in a few local areas and a few states so in those states absolutely but as a national policy I do not think that will be the driver per se but it will definitely be one of the kind of factors that influences the nudge but locally absolutely and it has already been taking place so for example in a state called Telangana in India which this is exactly why they kind of started pushing towards newer wind and solar plants because they did not want to use their water for coal power plants Ok one last question on the back To go on to the original storage question is load shifting something that is being looked at like so either charging EVs when it's convenient or disconnecting the ACs at a few kinds of the year the way he's linked us with hot water meters I forgot to mention that So the question was in continuation with storage can load shifting be considered as one of the options or is it being considered for example switching the charging of electric vehicles or disconnecting the AC load and so on and so forth Yes it is absolutely it is and in fact Indian utilities are masters of something called as demand response it's just the wrong entity responding it's called demand control So but quite the long story short yes and not just air conditioners but agricultural pumps which is a big load in India municipal water pumping and some utilities are already practicing it and from our work it is also coming up as one of the least cost resources that can add flexibility to the system So they are considering it but as a matter of national policy no but it's mostly at the utility scale utility level but going forward it is absolutely crucial and it will have to be implemented I think we're just about out of town thanks for a rapid but fascinating tour of the world of energy in India well thank you