 Coming up on DTNS, can teams beat Slack and is either one actually good for you? Google may be buckling in on paying for news and whether Sony can keep the price of the PS5 low. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, February 14th, 2020 in Los Angeles, I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. And from Columbus, Ohio, I'm Rob Dunwood. Drawing the top tech stories from Cleveland, Ohio, I'm Len Veralta. And back in the LA County area, I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. Roger, we're in here. We'd be 50-50 Ohio and California. That's right. That's right. Way to go, Roger. Roger, we need you to move somewhere in between. We were just talking about DNA, both human and dog and getting it analyzed and what it might mean. If you want that expanded conversation, you got to get good day internet. Become a member at patreon.com slash DTNS. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. YouTube notified YouTube TV subscribers, the ones who signed up through Apple's App Store, that subscribing through Apple in-app purchases would be discontinued as of March 13th, and also previous App Store subscriptions would be automatically canceled at that time. Apple takes 30% of a subscription sign up for the first 12 months, then 15% after that. Google doesn't want to give them that money. The YouTube TV apps will still be available, though, across Apple devices. Research scientists at MIT have discovered security vulnerabilities in the VOTES app, the VOATZ app used for some votes during the 2018 U.S. midterm elections in West Virginia, absentee accessibility, that sort of thing. The researchers reverse engineered the VOTES app and server to find that it did not verify votes with its own backend blockchain, which is kind of the whole point. Attackers could change votes or prevent them from being submitted, and voter identification information was also not guaranteed to remain private when it was shared with a third party for verification. The MIT researchers disclosed this to the U.S. Cybersecurity Infrastructure Agency before making the findings public. Samsung board chairman Lee Song Hoon, who was convicted and jailed for sabotaging union activities, has resigned. Finally, Samsung says that Lee's successor will be appointed in the near future and could be picked from remaining members of its board. And Facebook's Experimental Projects Group MPE team launched its fourth app called Hobby with an I. A photo and video sharing app to document personal projects. This lets users organize photos into themed collections, track and progress over time, with the ability to share video highlight reels externally once the project's complete. The app itself is not a social network. Hobby is currently available on iOS in Colombia, Belgium, Spain, the U.S. and Ukraine. I wish it was called Hobbit, but oh well, close enough. I want to make a Holly Hobby joke, so pretend I did. All right, let's talk a little bit more about Facebook. Oh, that's Facebook announced that it'll let influencers, you know, people who have a lot of followers, that kind of thing, in the U.S. post paid content for political campaigns if the posts are clearly identified as ads. This follows a New York Times report on Thursday that Democratic candidate Mike Bloomberg's presidential campaign had paid popular Instagram meme pages for posts and had partnered with a group called Meme 2020 led by the CEO of the viral media group, Jerry Media. There's a very popular account, F. Jerry, that you may have heard of. I'll leave it at that. Facebook says that sponsored political content won't go into Facebook's political ad library unless the creator pays to boost those posts. On Instagram, paid posts will need to use the branded content ads tool that adds the paid partnership label to a post. It's a very official, this is a paid partnership type of thing, regardless of what user adds as a hashtag. Posts that contain the voice of the politician will not be fact-checked under Facebook and Instagram policy, but posts in the voice of solely the influencer will be. Right, because that's Instagram and Facebook. That's a whole separate topic we've talked about before where they don't fact-check you if you're a political candidate because somehow they believe that's right. But in this case, I think we can focus on the ad labeling. Previously, Instagram banned political operations from running branded content because it implies that Instagram's getting money from it and they wanted to make sure people didn't think that, but they didn't account for influencers stepping in and doing this and then not being properly labeled. So like, okay, if you're an influencer and you're doing political content, then you do have to use the branded content tool because the idea here is to say this was paid for, but Instagram doesn't actually get money for that. It's not an Instagram ad. No, it's just a way to reach a lot of people. And if you're not familiar with the Bloomberg kind of meme campaign that was on Instagram, got a lot of attention this week. It was it was more or less a variety of accounts pretending to be DM'd by Mike Bloomberg, which is he was very sort of self-deprecating kind of thing. And at the end of every post, I mean, they had some measures in place so that they weren't going to get in trouble. It was like hashtag, yes, this is really paid for by Mike Bloomberg's campaign type thing. So it wasn't totally like anybody was trying to get away with it, but so many of these accounts are joke accounts anyway, and very subversive. And they're, you know, they're a series of memes. Half the time they don't make tons of sense anyway, so it wasn't really enough. Rob, what do you make of this? I'm just, and I know we've talked about this before, I'm just kind of shocked that you have to verify and check what the influencer says, but if it's the politician themselves just lying all over the place, no fact checks necessary whatsoever. Yeah, that's just that's funny to me. Instagram and Facebook do not want to be the arbiters of what is true and what is not for a candidate, but it's fine to be arbiter of what's true and what it's not for an influencer. So what I hear is that they don't want to be the arbiter for someone who can control them in some level of government if they get elected. Wow, that's an interesting way of looking at it, isn't it Rob? Speaking of Bloomberg, the news outlet, not the candidate sources say that Sony has not set final pricing or set an initial production target for the upcoming PlayStation 5 to Bloomberg. The sources are telling the Bloomberg news outlet that. I guess this is because of DRAM and NAND flash scarcity pushing the cost per unit up to a reported $450 per. The company is reportedly waiting on Microsoft to announce their pricing for the Xbox Series X before finalizing their numbers. So this little game of chicken might be going on there. The DRAM shortage is also reportedly impacting other Sony products with features for an upcoming mirrorless camera canceled as a result. Sources also saying Sony plans to release an updated PlayStation VR headset either at the same time as the PS5 or potentially right after. The PS4 costs $380 per unit. $500 is what you get the Xbox One X for. I know PS5 wants to be seen as affordable. Rob, in your opinion, what would make that work for them? So the DRAM story is absolutely true. There is absolutely a shortage. The pricing hold up from Sony is only because they cannot be more expensive than the Xbox. They need to come in at worst the same price, if not $50 to $100 less just because that's just the way that it is right now with games. Xbox is winning. So it's interesting. They are going to play chicken, but I think everybody is kind of expecting that the new Xbox is going to be $500. So this is probably going to be somewhere in a $449 range or something like that. Yeah. I mean, even if they break even on this, selling the services, even more so than the games these days, but those subscription services is where you're going to make the big money anyway. So I wouldn't be shocked to see $450 be the sticker price. I'm in on that. Tell us about Google talking to publishers, Sarah. Okay. The Wall Street Journal sources say that Google is talking to publishers in Europe specifically about paying them to include content in a news product, a news product that doesn't necessarily exist yet, but might be upcoming soon. Google said in a statement to the journal, quote, we want to help people find quality journalism. It's important to informed democracy and help support a sustainable news industry. We care deeply about this and are talking with partners and looking at more ways to expand our ongoing work with publishers and quote. Now, EU copyright law requires tech companies to pay for article previews. And Google has previously said it's not going to do that, not going to pay. Instead, change how it displays news altogether. Okay. So I don't know any inside knowledge on this, but my guess is Google is going to make an Apple news type thing separate from the Google news you get in your browser. And they're going to use that as an excuse to say, well, we won't pay you to show up in Google news. We still are principally objected to that. But we'll make a deal with you for this other service that we're going to put it as an app in Android. And that's worth paying for. And oh, by the way, in the contract, we'll put in a little license that honors that crazy copyright law in the EU so that we can keep indexing you on Google news the way we used to. And then everybody's happy, right? Because you're getting paid for this other thing. But the law is satisfied. And I really think it is Google trying not to buckle, but figure out a way to keep the publishers happy without looking like they're changing their stance on that EU copyright directive, which requires them to pay for putting news on the Google news site. I feel like this is one of those stories where, you know, Google was putting these snippets in. EU says you've got to pay for it. Google says, OK, so we're not. And then the EU basically said, I wonder what else we can sue you for, Google? Now, Google is their falling in line is probably harsh language. But they're figuring out how they can do what is probably mostly right. And as you said, Tom, say a little bit of face. Yeah, what is going to keep strong our tactic? Absolutely did not work. Well, OK, we're just not going to show you anything. No, that's not going to work for us. We like to sue a lot of tech companies an awful lot here. So just make sure you know that. Well, that's what we've seen as they got rid of Google news in Spain. They strong armed publishers in Germany. And what they got for their trouble was this entirely new copyright law. And I think they're realizing that the winds are against them. So I think that's right, Rob. They're they're looking to keep the publisher satisfied. Maybe not. Yeah, like you say, maybe maybe not giving in. But but just like, let's let's just try to avoid the fight this time. Security researcher Jamila Kaya and Duo Security informed Google of 71 Chrome extensions that were part of a malvertising and ad fraud scheme and had been installed more than 1.7 million times after being informed about this problem. Google went looking themselves and identified more than 500 extensions as part of the scheme and removed them and disabled them on Chrome installation. So if you had one, it would get great out and say this is insecure. You need to remove it. Each plugin would initially connect to a domain with the same name as the plugin to check for instructions. And that's probably how they slipped through app review to get into the extension store. But from there, the browser would be redirected to hard coded control servers that would then send locations to upload data, advertisement feedless and domains for future redirects. User data and updated plugin configurations were subsequently uploaded to the servers as well. And the redirects might take a user to just an affiliate page of a legitimate site as a way to make the extension maker some money or in more serious cases to actual malware or phishing pages where they attempted to infect people or steal their data. This was an interesting one to me. I'm thinking about how there are a lot of apps and a lot of services. Ebates, I think they're now called Rackatoon, they come to mind. So a lot of these types of services are legitimate. But people are always trying to save a buck where you install this browser extension. If you shop through us, you're going to get a little bit of a rebate check or something back. But it looks like these developers have actually hijacked that and are doing some pretty malicious stuff with it. That's the classic scheme, right? You go and you make an extension that looks like a legitimate extension and looks like it does something like a legitimate extension and people are like, oh, here's a new one that'll save me some money. Let me try that, which is why public service message we repeat regularly on this show is what doesn't matter what platform, doesn't matter what app store, Chrome extension, Android, iOS, Windows, whatever. When you're downloading an app, you should be careful if you're unfamiliar with the publisher and you're unfamiliar with what the app does. Doesn't mean don't download apps. If you're downloading from a company you know and trust, that's fine. But if it's a new company and it's a new thing, you might want to poke around a little and find out a little bit more about whether that company is legit. Yeah. I mean, this was a pretty widespread problem, but it sounds like we're on the mend. Well, for now anyway, yeah. Yeah, I can cancel. Somebody gets fancy with something else. Okay, lots of specs ahead. So bear with me. At an event in Beijing, Xiaomi announced its latest flagship phones, which were originally slated for an announcement at Mobile World Congress, which as you know, had been canceled. The Xiaomi Mi 10 and the Xiaomi Mi 10 Pro. Both devices feature the Snapdragon 865 system on a chip with 5G and Wi-Fi 6. The Mi 10 Pro comes with a 6.6 of an inch AMOLED full HD curved display and four cameras on the back, including a 108 megapixel main camera with optical image stabilization with support for AK video on that main camera. The support for 50-watt wired fast charging, 30-watt wireless charging, and the ability to output 10 watts charging to other devices. That's kind of handy. Pricing starts at $4,999, which is roughly $716 US, shipping on February 18th. The Mi 10 features the same screen and main camera, but has a 2 megapixel macro and 13 megapixel ultra wide in place of the Pro's telephoto lenses. So that's where, you know, you save a little money there. The phone includes support for 30-watt wired and wireless charging. Pricing starts at $3999, so it's about $1,000 less than the Pro for a Mi 10 with 8 gigabytes of memory and 128 gigs of storage available now. Yeah, and this of course was done in Beijing instead of Barcelona. They were originally going to do it at Mobile World Congress. They made a big deal on stage about, you know, the fact that yes, the coronavirus is certainly affecting things, but it won't stop them. They're plowing ahead. What I found notable is that this is only a China release. They said it will be coming to other markets. They talked about, you know, really getting going in Europe in the future, but India is in fact, Xiaomi's bigger market. It's bigger than China for Xiaomi. And they did not give an Indian release date. I don't know if that's because they're worried about manufacturing yields because of the shutdown of plants in China, but I know Xiaomi has plants outside of China too. So I'd be very curious what this looks like in India because that's super important as a market for Xiaomi. Yeah, absolutely. And these are some fairly high-end phones. And when you compare them to the prices of phones that we generally see here in the U.S., they are a third to half as much. So I wonder if you're going to start seeing a lot of Americans foregoing Samsung, foregoing Motorola or Sony, and actually seeing if they can't get their hands on one of these. I know it's a little bit more difficult now than it used to be a couple of years ago, but these are fairly high-quality phones that they're putting together. Yeah, OnePlus, Xiaomi, both, you know, get a lot of attention from the U.S. market. But OnePlus has done a pretty good job of getting into the U.S. market. Xiaomi keeps saying they're going to get into the U.S. market and then it just gets tougher and tougher all the time for them. So I think that's why they've changed to focusing on Europe for the time being, because that could be a stepping stone for them. But you're right. They make some pretty compelling hardware at an affordable price. Not to say they couldn't increase the price, though, if they bring it to another market. Hey, folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes, be sure to subscribe to DailyTechHeadlines.com. Slack stock. When I say slack stock, I mean stock for the company Slack that makes the team-building messaging surged on Monday when they reported that IBM would become its biggest customer. And then after hours trading fell when they clarified that IBM already was their biggest customer, because IBM had a contract to use Slack in a trial mode. But the actual news is that the rollout across IBM's entire digital workplace will be in all their geographies all over the world. After the launch of its Enterprise Grid service last year, Slack reported it had 165,000 IBM users. And the official launch will push that up quite a bit, 350,000. That'll double the number of users. But it did bring some Snickers, didn't it, Rob, when people realized that. I thought that was pretty funny. It's like, wait a minute, isn't IBM, and this is like something that I knew. Now, as you said, they did add a whopping or a boatload of new users, but it really did surge that stock to the point they actually had to halt trading. I think about 10, 15 minutes before the market actually closed during a regular session, and then they came back on after they made their announcement in after hours on Monday. But that's interesting because in a different life, I have spent a lot of time, a lot of time, working with Slack. And I've been working with Teams since before Microsoft even officially announced it. And all I can say is that Microsoft is absolutely coming after Slack. So fervently that I'm wondering is Slack going to ultimately be a takeover target for some larger company, a company like Google or Amazon or maybe Salesforce actually take a Slack added to their portfolio because the thing with Slack and the issues that I see with them is that Slack, it's real nice for free, but you only get like 10,000 messages. And it's fairly hamstring for the free version, but corporations are using the paid version. The paid version is more expensive than Microsoft Teams or significantly more expensive than Microsoft Teams. And the thing that Microsoft Teams has going for it is that it probably gives you 70% of what Slack gives you, but it gives you 100% of what Microsoft Office gives you. That's included in your Teams subscription. So what Slack is having the issue with is that it's just Slack. They integrate with everything else, but when you're looking at a business, it's like, wait a minute, we're already using Office and I'm already paying for Teams. Do I pay additional money to get over and use Slack, even if there are some features in Slack that currently don't exist in Teams? Will they be here soon enough by the time I roll this out to my 60, 70,000 users in my workplace? And that's why Slack is trying to make the IBM deal sound big is to say, like, look, we know that Microsoft has this built-in advantage of already being there for Office 365 customers, but we're still a good choice for IBM. IBM decided to pay for us anyway, so they're trying to make that argument. I think it is interesting to think about Slack getting acquired. My guess is Slack doesn't want to get acquired. They see themselves becoming a big enough company that they just start branching out and they don't have to compete, but they are in the position to branch out and expand at this point. Google's not probably going to buy them because they're developing their own in-house thing and it would complicate things to buy Slack, but it's not impossible. Amazon doesn't really have an enterprise software level offering. That might be a good way for them to get into it and it kind of fits that acquisition profile. Salesforce is another interesting one where they could just slot it in and start making it part of their offerings. And maybe, I don't know, on the outside, maybe in Oracle or somebody like that might be interested. Who knows? In the meantime, though, if you're making this decision for yourself, you have to also keep in mind, do I want either one of these? Because research from the University of California and Humboldt University found that workers can lose up to 23 minutes on a task every time they are interrupted. Both teams and Slack, both, they interrupt you quite frequently. Scientists found no difference in distraction between Slack and email, just so you know, but a lot of people have their alerts turned on for Slack and maybe not for email. One of the researchers involved, Gloria Marks, said the true cost is not so much productivity but stress. People are still getting work done, but they have to take longer to do it because they keep getting interrupted. Yeah, I think that's really important. When we were talking about this earlier, I was like, I mean, it's a little bit more productive than email, but it depends on where you work, right? And it depends on the structure of which your organization might have a few channels or maybe say, okay, this team only needs to be in these few channels because we want everyone to be focused. That isn't always the case. Sometimes it can be 40 channels that you have to manage and be pinged on and get notifications from all day long. The whole idea behind Slack and teams and anything that's going to become a competitor in the future is this is more efficient than email. You can have more categories, you can keep conversations more focused. And I think that that is true for me. I'm a Slack user. I'm in several different Slack teams. One of them is purely just friends and we've made channels just to keep ourselves on topic on a variety of things. That's the sort of thing where I have to mute it sometimes when I'm working because it is just a time waster and it definitely is. I mean, it's a time waster the same way any group text chat would be. But for work, for DTNS, we use Slack for a lot of our pre-show stuff and I find it very organized and helpful. But if we had many more channels, it would start to derail me probably. Or many more users. I mean, we use it in time leading up to the show and we rarely use it outside of that time. Exactly. I recently did some consulting for a company that had probably 35, 40 users. They were geographically dispersed throughout the Midwest. And I think the biggest location maybe had nine or 10 people in it. So Slack just kind of made sense because it did allow everyone who was working remotely to kind of feel like they were being included in everything. But there were for 35 people, I think we had 60 or 70 channels. So it got really, really chatty. And one of the things that the CEO of that company, he was really into the Pomodoro method where you spend 25 to 30 minutes without any interruption working on a task. So he just implemented a policy where each team member had to do, he called them sprints, six sprints per day. You had six times where you had an uninterrupted 30 minutes where you weren't checking any email. You weren't having any conversations. You were simply just hunkered down and developing or drawing or doing whatever you did for this particular organization. And this is very anecdotal. We didn't actually measure this with tools, but it seemed like the actual productivity went up so much so that I actually still implement Pomodoro method now. It was something I wasn't doing before, but it's very easy. I like to work when I have the TV on, but when I find that I turn it off and I go for 25 to 30 minutes without any interruption, the amount of work I can get done in that timeframe, sometimes I'll stack them and do an hour, but the amount of work I can get done under uninterrupted is really impressive compared to constantly being bothered by SMS or Slack, in this case, Teams, whatever app you're using for messaging and presence. That's a really smart thing to experiment with, I think. I almost want a Pomodoro button on my computer where I could just be like mute it all. I'm going under for whatever 25 minutes, 30 minutes. That's great because it keeps you out of meetings. It keeps you out of distractions. And then something like Teams or Slack doesn't end up being counterproductive. It ends up being productive because it's still helping you get the advantages of staying in touch. I think what happened with Slack and is true of Teams or Facebook workplace or whatever is that it didn't actually reduce email. It just added more communication. Exactly. It's just kind of morphed into something else, but then email didn't go away either. I'm a big fan of shutting things off, especially like if I'm editing video or something, it helps me hold myself accountable if I'm just like Wi-Fi off because everything's local right now. And if I can't get this done in the time that I thought I could get it done, then that's on me because nobody interrupted me. Hey, thanks everybody who participates in our subreddit. You are never interrupting any of us. You can submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com and join in the conversation in our Discord, which you can join by linking to a Patreon account at patreon.com. Let's check out the mailbag. Let's do it. Paul, the satellite div from Texas wrote in about our conversation about the Nevada caucus and what might be the best course of action as far as tally and votes. Paul says, while I like the direction of using off-the-shelf tools for the caucus, I'd be pretty wary of using Google Forms for mission-critical data. I previously built an internal tool off of Google Sheets and it was pretty much a slow disaster over time. While Google Sheets is a great tool, it's not really that great as a hardened database storage. Also, when things do fail, Google support is lacking in a lot of ways. Hopefully, they're using G Suite so they can at least get some support. You get a lot of great features when using Google Forms and Sheets, but you also give up a lot of control. You can't really do much, but wait for Google when things go bad. As a developer or IT admin, you want to have some ways to mitigate problems, and those options are few with services like Google Sheets. Overall, it's a good short-term solution, but hopefully they make something better over time. Yeah, it's sort of like in comparison to a fly-by-night app from a company that failed in Iowa, Google Forms, in my opinion, is a great alternative. And you're right. Like I said, if you do it right, it works well, but you have to do it right. You have to be a paying member. I hope the Nevada Democratic Party is a paying member of G Suite, so they're getting full support of this. But you're right. It may not be the best tool. I know Rob, you've worked with stuff like this over the years. What's your take? When it comes to voting, I'm partial to paper and fax machines. But that wasn't a problem we were talking about yesterday. They made it so complicated that paper is almost untenable. You need at least a calculator or some kind of more complicated thing to help them calculate faster. What should that be? And that's for the tally and the assignment. Yeah, yeah. But as far as just counting the actual, this person voted for this person, that person voted for that person, give me an actual paper trail and let me fax stuff to people where you can read this, because when you're dealing with, especially with the caucus state, you're not talking about 10,000, 20,000 people per precinct. You're talking literally hundreds of people, maybe 1,000, 1,500 at the top end. Write that stuff down, send it through a fax, and just make sure you have it. The problem with the Nevada was they did early voting. So you've got a bunch of numbers already in and they have to be integrated in a way that's just mathematically complicated to do on paper. Yeah, I know it's a problem. It's definitely been a problem, but we've been a country for a couple hundred years now. Paper has generally worked. It's like the, you know, I can't make that out. It also didn't do early voting a couple hundred years ago either. This is, you know, this is an area that I'm in, but I just like when it comes to something as, you know, as crucial and critical to voting, that there is some type of paper trail that you can go back to. Yeah, and don't get me wrong. There is a paper trail, even with Google Forms. What they're using Google Forms for is to calculate that number, which is we need to take all the people who wrote five names down or sometimes three names down and figure out like, okay, their first choice wasn't viable in the first round. So now it goes to their second choice. Oh wait, their second choice was also not viable. Now we go to the third choice. That takes hours and hours to do if you have to do it by paper. The idea with Google Forms was we can automate that so that those results happen super fast. And then you add in everything from the room. All of it has a paper trail that you can go and check if you need to. It was just trying to make it faster on that night. Now that was the old man. Rob doesn't want anything to change on the conversation. Now the technology part of the conversation, this should be very figureoutable. I mean, I have seen rockets launched based off of stuff people did in PowerPoint and Excel, literally put things into orbit around Earth. So this should be very figureoutable. They should be able to come up with something. But yeah, Google Docs is that might not be the thing today. When is the caucus in Nevada? I think it's what next Saturday, next Friday, next week. Yeah, that may not be the thing for them at that point. But we definitely want to get this figured out. Yeah. Hey, shout out to our patrons at our master and grandmaster levels, including Paul Reese, Steve Ayadarola, and Mark Gibson. Len Peralta has been drawing during the show. We always love what Len draws. What are you drawing for us this week? Well, do you want to watch a billionaire's presidential campaign go up in fire? Take a look at Mike Bloomberg. Yeah, I found this an interesting story because I felt this was like a desperate way to claw back into the race. Not even back. He hasn't been in the race. He's not even registered on the ballot. But you still see his campaign on television all the time. He's gotten billions and billions of dollars to spend on this. And the fact that he went with Jerry Media or someone associated with Jerry Media kind of rubbed me the wrong way. A little fire festival action. A little bit. So yeah, so if you want to check this image out. Oh, I see you spelled fire with a Y. Exactly. Exactly. And he's saying, how do you do, fellow kids? That meme is all over the place. If you want to see Mike Bloomberg sort of in his campaign going up in FYRE, you can go over and check it out over at my Patreon, patreon.com forward slash Len or over at my online store. You just pick up a copy, put this up, let people know what you think about Mike Bloomberg. That is lennparaldestore.com. Thank you, Len. Good work as always. Also, thanks to Rob Dunwood for being on the show today. Rob, let folks know where they can keep up with your work. So you can find me on Twitter at Rob Dunwood. And I'm over on my regular podcast, SMR podcast. We are back to doing regular shows now, where we took a little bit of a hiatus over the holiday season, but we're back to record and regular. And it's nothing like here where we've actually thought about what we're going to talk about. We literally get on for 90 minutes and just talk about whatever is on our mind. Usually we will get to tech at some point. But I enjoy those the best. I really enjoy hearing you guys just chat. You know, sometimes it's just about your lives and exercise, but when you bring in the knowledge on the technology from your own experiences, it's nothing like it. Folks, I highly recommend it, smrpodcast.com. We have new Patreon reward merchandise as well to celebrate six years of DTNS Len Peralta. Thank you, Len. Created a six year anniversary logo. It's got a six in the DTNS logo. And if you back certain levels at patreon.com slash DTNS for three months, you can get either a sticker, a poster, a mug or a t-shirt. Get the details at patreon.com slash DTNS slash merch. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. We're live Monday through Friday, 4 30 p.m. Eastern 21 30 UTC. You can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. No show Monday. It's a holiday here in the U S, but we'll be back on Tuesday with Patrick Beja. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frogpants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.