 Hello again, this is Richard Thien showing up 25 years after I showed up to speak here at DEF CON for the first time to address the topic UFOs, misinformation, disinformation, and the basic truth. A lot has been happening since I made a talk about this subject eight years ago, which is on YouTube, and I'll refer to that subsequently, but I want to say that reality has filled K. Dick said, we'll not go away just because we refuse to believe in it, and what is happening right now is real. In fact, it's been real for a long time. So given all the hullabaloo about UAPs as we now call them in UFOs, what is happening? Well, for one thing, those videos are happening. And I'm not going to show them to you again because you've seen them. They're widely available on the internet. You've seen the tic-tacs and you've seen the videos from the 2004 Nimitz incident, and you've probably seen that object going in and out of the water on its way from U.S. territorial waters toward Cuba. Those are all very interesting and all over the web. So those videos and what they're getting people to say and think about are happening, and officials commented on them positively in public, which is a near first. So that's happening too. They're not making jokes about little green men or conspiracy theories, eh? In addition, Luis Elizondo and his narrative is happening, and he's telling the world that he left the UAP task force so he could bring his knowledge, his concerns into public debate. Now, this is where I would be showing you my second slide, which is a picture of Luis Elizondo, and no matter what we did and how many hours we spent, we could not get slides to insert themselves in this video using the software we had to use. So the slides that accompany this will be available on the DEF CON server as well as at my website, which is themeworks.com, T-H-I-E-M-E-W-O-R-K-S.com, and you can go there and see them. Now, I'll also send them to you by email in PDF PowerPoint or keynote, if you like. Now what is Luis Elizondo saying? He said to me a couple of years ago in a conversation that the conversation about UAPs used to be at the water cooler, low level, and now it is happening at the highest levels of the Pentagon. I can add that a former member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff confirmed that UFOs are real and have been observed and documented for a long time. Okay, so what's happening is UFOs are real. But those of us who have investigated this seriously and robustly and diligently and skeptically have known that that's been true for the last 70 years. But this time, the authoritative voice, if you will, 60 minutes, the New York Times, CNN, the Washington Post, the New Yorker, several senators, the head of NASA, they all constitute the quote-unquote authoritative voice, and instead of dismissing or ridiculing the rest of us for reporting what we know, they confirmed that they are real. So this CBS, with 60 minutes saying those things, is not Walter Cronkite's CBS decades ago, half a century ago, when he debunked UFOs as not worthy of investigation. And that did happen to be a time when the CIA and CBS and many other major media had secret contracts. So what's happening is that authoritative voice is confirming that UFOs are real and are a security threat. In our book, UFOs in Government, A Historical Inquiry, to which I'll refer again, because it's the gold standard for historical research into the subject. And we document that from the 40s to the 80s, using their own words, the government considered UFOs a security threat, and investigated what they might be on that basis. So what else has been observed, according to Alessandro? Well, that there have been many more documented sightings than the videos you have seen, and then the hundred and some odd incidents to which they refer. Many, many more documented sightings over the past 70 years. And he also affirmed that they enter and leave the atmosphere and travel with equalies, whether in space, or in the air, or underwater. And that the propulsion system, which we really shouldn't call a propulsion system, because it doesn't seem to propel, it's a means of translation, as it were, from one vector of space time to another. And the velocities they achieve, and their aerodynamics, are still pretty much beyond our understanding and capabilities, although I believe, and that's a belief, not a knowledge, that we are doing and have been doing everything we can to learn how to do that. Well, often when you observe UFOs, there's what we could call a warp snap. They blur. They don't simply go fast. They blur and go out of sight, or out of our space time, flying entirely, or into a different dimensional reality. Or they could be going so fast, from one point to another, without impacts of gravity, that they cannot be detected in motion by the eye or sensors. But our sensors are doing a good job of detecting them in other ways. The only alternative explanation in 1948 was that they were extraterrestrial, if they weren't Russian or they weren't ours. Now we can add multi-dimensional and time travel, which if I have time, I'll refer to, and so you know what I mean. So don't think of how things fly in the atmosphere. They don't fly. They don't action, reaction, propel one way and move another. They move in inexplicable ways, and often pilots report they seem to simply vanish. They are right in front of him, in the air, and simply disappear. So if they're not ours, and they're not Russian or Chinese, or from this planet, the only other explanation, however you frame it, is their off world. Now you can call as the report did, that last category, other, if you like, but we know what they mean, right, wink, wink, other indeed. So where are we? We're back to the twining memo, and we are back to what we were saying about this in public in the early 1950s. I'm going to pause this and get a map that is on one of the slides and show it to you so you can see what I mean. Okay, I'm back, and here is a map that was in Look Magazine in 1952, when there was a lot of activity going on, capturing everyone's attention. What you're seeing is a map of the United States, and those circles and names are all of the military bases where UFOs were reported by the government. Got it? You can find this map in more detail on the web. If you look up the article, Look Magazine, 1952 UFOs, and see the entire article. It's at Jan Aldrich's Project 1947 website. So that's what was happening, and the twining memo, to which I referred, was happening. The twining memo, if you do not remember that from your UFO studies, was written in 1947, and it was from Lieutenant General Nathan Twining to Brigadier General George Shulgun about flying discs, and he said, the phenomenon reported is something real. It is not visionary or fictitious. The reported operating characteristics, such as extreme rates of climb, maneuverability, and action, which must be considered evasive when cited by friendly aircraft and radar, this is all confirmed by multiple witnesses. That was 1947. So that's happening too, that what we said and knew in 1947 is being said again as if it is new because it is the authoritative voice making the statement. Now one of our colleagues and researchers, Barry Greenwood, co-author of Clear Intent, which is the term the CIA used to characterize UFOs prodding the defenses at military sites along the northern tier. He shared my surprise that the glum responses to the government report because there's some real gold there. The report notes that they're physical objects. Back in the 1950s, if you tried to look up flying saucer, which was a phrase that didn't exist yet, in the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature, which documented all popular articles, you didn't find flying saucer, UFO. You found hoaxes and delusions. Well, things have changed because the report disclosed for the first time that those unusual flight characteristics to which Twining referred all those years ago have been documented by multiple sensors, including radar, infrared, electro-optical, our weapon seekers, and of course, visual. And the report confirmed that they constitute a flight risk. The report mentioned 11 near-misses, although one of our colleagues, Richard Haynes, has been gathering accounts of such encounters from commercial pilots and military pilots and has amassed in his catalog of some years ago more than 3,000 reports from them. So the report said far from getting out of the business of studying UFOs, which they claim to have done after the Condom Committee report and the end of Project Blue Book theoretically, the government has been keenly interested in UFOs, particularly when they're poking around military bases. And very soon after the report was released, Kathleen Hicks, Deputy Secretary of Defense, issued a memo for senior Pentagon leadership commanders of combatant commands and defense agency and DOD field activity directors to institute synchronized collection, reporting, and analysis of UAP to secure test and training ranges and essentially to create a new infrastructure for this activity. So that's some of what's happening now, but isn't it interesting that all these things are being reported, including these latest videos, without any context at all? No historical context. But there is, as I am saying, a historical context. And the researchers to whom I have referred and others have tirelessly documented for decades a great deal of what that historical context is. And we use data that's in the public domain. Open source intelligence is frequently much more helpful than trying to ferret out compartmented limited information. So let's look at what is really happening. Now this is where I would show you the slide of the cover of our book, UFOs and Government as Historical Inquiry. The main authors are Professor Michael Swartz, Professor of History, and the head of the former head of the Chemistry Department at AMD, the chipmaker, Robert Powell, who now heads up SCU, which is a scientific organization dedicated to really good analysis of these current cases. Well, our book had nearly 1,000 footnotes, and they all pointed to government documents and other primary sources so we could tell the story of those decades in the government's own words. I highly recommend it, of course, as required reading to begin to understand the context of what is being released now without any context at all. Because it was long ago that, for example, J. Edgar Hoover said in 1947, the flying saucer situation is not all imaginary. Something is flying around. And I've already quoted from the twining memos. Well, there's a ton more. I'm looking over here to see what time it is. And yeah, okay, we're good. There's a ton more of all that to adduce. But let's go beyond the fact of UFOs. The fact that they exist, the fact that they've been documented, to just name some of the documented impacts of UFOs. Here are some of the well-documented effects of which we know. Within a variety of contexts, the emanation of microwave energy from UAPs has been adduced. And UAPs have shown themselves capable of stimulating colored halos around themselves, largely from the noble gases in the atmosphere. In other words, they ionize nitrogen. And that causes the colors that are seen in relationship to the speed they go, which is determined by the power that they use, however they manufacture it. So when they hover, they're red, or red-orange. But as they accelerate, they go through other colors until they wind up going through yellow, green, and all the way to white and blue-white. And at the fastest speeds, they are a very, very intense blue-white. All of that relates very mathematically, very directly to the ionization of elements in the atmosphere around them. They have been documented to produce a dazzling white plasma on their surfaces, which is somewhat similar to ball lighting. They induce chemical changes in their presence. And they're detected as odors. They have turned off numerous times automobile headlights or engines by increasing the resistance of tungsten filaments. In other words, we can do some science with the effects that they produce. They have stopped internal combustion engines by increasing the resistance of the distributor points and suppressing the current in their primary windings. They have precipitated numerous times on planes and on the ground while gyrations of compasses and magnetic speedometers and rattling metallic road signs, which shake just like in the movie, Coast Encounters of the Third Kind. They have heated up automobile batteries by directly absorbing energy in the acid. And they have interfered with radio and television reception and transmission by inducing extraneous voltages in the coil of the tuned circuit or restricting the emission of electrons from tungsten cathodes. They have disrupted transmission of electrical power by an induced operation of isolation relays. They have desiccated small ponds and dried grass and bushes in the ground by resonant absorption of water molecules. They have charred or calcium, grass roots, insects, wooden objects, and landing sites. In other words, they leave burnt circles. They have heated by too many highways in depth and igniting volatiles gases. They have heated the human body internally, as microwaves do. They have caused people to feel electric shocks. And they have induced temporary paralysis in witnesses, numerous reports all over the world through time of moving toward a landed UFO or a hovering UFO and suddenly being unable to move, being conscious, volitional, but unable to move. In addition, medical experiments have shown that when pulsed at low audio frequency, the energy they emit was capable of stimulating the auditory nerve directly so that people have a sensation of hearing a bumming, humming, or buzzing sound. Okay, that's the end of that list. Those are the effects and some of the causes of them of which we have known for a long time that is part of the context. And then there were incidents long ago, again, back to 1952. I'm gonna read this one directly. At a distance of 130 miles to the northeast of Washington, DC, three different army radar units detected an object at 18,000 feet. The signal was strong. It remained stationary on radar for 30 minutes and then began to move. By the time it reached the edge of the radar scopes, it was traveling over 1,000 miles per hour. Their report went all the way to the Pentagon and the order came back that if another one came in, fire on it. After that first night, we loaded our 99 millimeter anti-aircraft guns, a rather unusual thing to do in a populated area, Washington, DC, right? And we also scrambled F-94 jet fighters from Aguaire Air Force Base. This was the time when Major General John Sanford, who was Chief of Air Force Intelligence, said, credible people have seen incredible things. Well, my slides and a few other details that you might wanna investigate on your own are the RB-47 case and the Minot URL. The Minot case as illuminated by Tom Turin, another colleague online. The RB-47 bomber was paced for hours by UFO, aircraft and ground radar and visual observation confirmed the event. You might find the details and how an explorer like Brad Sparks pursued the reality behind the reported effects. He wrote an article for the wonderful UFO Encyclopedia, the latest edition of which by Jerome Clark is just golden and you can see Brad Sparks article in the UFO Encyclopedia. Or you can go online to www.minotb52ufo.com minotb52ufo.com and see how Tom Turin has provided details of the Minot intrusion at the Minot Air Force Base, including detailed interviews with pilots, what they saw, what they said. This is a good place to start or you can look at the Lowering Air Force Base case from October of 1975. A FOIA listed 24 documents describing a V-52 bomber crew on the ground observing an object 300 feet away and five feet above the ground at that military installation. Or you can look at the document we received from the DIA by a FOIA request of the incident of Tehran Iran in September of 1976, which details a dogfight between fighters and the UFO. An Iranian general later spoke publicly at a press conference confirming the event and the reports from the DIA says the cases of the highest credibility. I'm referring to all these cases because that's where you have to go if you wanna know the context and the depth and the details of how this phenomena has manifested itself over so many years. Cases, cases, cases. Read them. Mike Swartz, our lead professor, said I believe no one can be a good student of ufology unless one reads lots of cases. Cases are all we've got. Read them, read them, read them. Some reasonable sense, not all analytical, then follows and what he's suggesting is as you peruse dozens, then hundreds, then thousands of cases from all over the world, you begin to get a feel like reading a tape in the stock market of hold or following the dots of any dynamic reality. You get a feel for what is going on on the basis of not just similarities but identical reports of effects and experiences from all over the world. You don't need 10,000 hours of case reading to do that, but you do need a lot of hours because there are so many cases and you begin to evaluate which ones you don't even wanna read. You prefer two witnesses or more, not single witness cases. You don't worry about lights in the sky, period, as if that's all UFOs are. Read the cases. Read them, read them, read them. Now, one of the things that happens during these encounters is there's something that we call strangeness because we don't know what else to call it. People do report missing time which can be caused by a number of things or finding yourself becoming conscious and far from where you had been when the encounter began or you were traveling a busy road, there was sounds of traffic or there were outdoor nature sounds, birds and insects and suddenly there's silence. It's like being in a bell jar. We don't know what's happening. Is it a warping of space time somehow or is it the impact of the phenomena on human consciousness? Because ultimately the impact of all of this on human consciousness, individual as well as societal is where we have to go because that's how it comes home to us. That's how it's important. Are there patterns? Well, you look for them but if there are patterns they seem designed to confuse us. You can't say that's clearly the intention or certainly the intention but they seem to act like deception operations because we can't identify an easy pattern except I think there's one that is incontrovertible. All of the intermittent reinforcement of UFO encounters over the past years has resulted in all of us knowing about UFOs. In other words, they were hoaxes and delusions 70 years ago. Now they're UAPs. We all know how to draw a UFO. Not all of the UFOs are looked the same but you know what I mean. You know what a classic UFO looks like. Prolonged exposure to intermittent reinforcement from manifestations in remote places, unusual places often and impossible to predict places has sensitized us to the fact of their existence and presence and has alerted us to the possibility and expectation of meaningful content. We don't call them meant from Mars anymore. So it's important to look at the cases. It's important to grasp what you can from them but it's important to understand that if you haven't done some of the homework and looked at the cases we have amassed, go to Project 1947 website, the Jan Allrich is done. Look at the Project Blue Book website. Look at all the work that we have done over 50 years of gathering documents. Barry Greenwood to whom I referred, I think the last time he counted he had 250,000 clippings on UFOs. It does help in this domain as in many others to be obsessive and compulsive because that produces results, it's a feature, it's not a bug. Well, are we the only ones concerned? No, I don't think so. China created the government-sponsored China UFO Research Organization or CURO under their Academy of Social Sciences to study UFOs or UAPs. There is a People Liberation Army Task Force dedicated to unknown objects that increasingly relies on AI technology to analyze its data. Of course, we're not the only one interested. If there's a security implication and if whoever susses out the sources of propulsion and maneuverability gets to it first, they own us. They own the planet. As indeed, whatever is behind this phenomena has made clear. As Vrindavan Ram said many years ago, we're up against something that is far superior in technology to what we thought. Well, China in effect by creating their own investigations as we know Russia has done for one time and others as well. They're really kind of saying what Jenny Randles tells us Alan Heineck, the astronomer associated with Project Blue Book in the Air Force, consultant said, when he was at the Pentagon and a general took him inside and said, Alan, do you really think we would ignore something like this? Well, no, no. We don't think they have ignored it and that's why we know this report is just the tip of the iceberg. It refers to a hundred and some odd events recently but knowing all that, knowing them has had a powerful impact on people over the years and it does impact how you think it's right or best to report out things that originally were unthinkable. Well, now with the authoritative voice speaking, so the rest of us who've been speaking for years can be heard, it's not unthinkable. It's more than thinkable, it's known. And some of the effects of knowing something that can be so impactful, so traumatic, it can be a major restructuring of how we think. It can mean a majoring restructuring of society hierarchically so that the pieces that we put together into how we believe we ought to operate will fundamentally change knowing we, let's say it, are not alone and are not the top of the food chain. Belief systems will stretch to accommodate new data. You know, the Roman Catholic Church said no problem if aliens are real, we'll just baptize them. That's a belief system stretching to accommodate new data or sometimes people double down on their original beliefs, you know that, that the more something is shown to be incorrect, the more people assert it to be true. The political situation is testimony to that. And when I've been giving speeches on this or on intelligence matters or things that are a challenge for people, I often hear someone say, I don't wanna know that. I don't wanna live in your world. Well, that's a choice people make to hunker down in their bubble, play golf, do whatever they do to distract themselves from what's a little more important than making power. And I don't wanna know that. Well, I've heard that enough to know that I do wanna know it. I need to know machine, I'm a curiosity machine and curiosity is generally considered to be a good and a sign of intelligence. Although, when I was doing a talk at Los Alamos and I was asking questions about their supercomputers, the respondent who didn't say much said, you know, curiosity is considered a good thing elsewhere. In here, it's not. In other words, shut up. Well, how is this impacting people? Just ask Bill Nelson, who's now the head of NASA. You said when he was serving in the Senate, he saw a classified UAP data. Now, keep in mind that the report we've seen is seven pages and we are told that there were 70 pages and the rest was all classified. So we don't know what was in there other than that there were more details and more reports. Well, Nelson said, when he heard the reports, quote, the hair stood up on the back of my neck. He said he also spoke with some of the pilots involved in the incident and he said, they know they saw something. Well, the point of that is, when the head of NASA and the Senator hears a classified briefing and reports that the hair stood up on the back of his neck, it makes the hair stand up on the back of our necks because it adds to the implications of what we're discussing, the unknowns of what he did here and what we do know on top of what we have been able to fathom. So why would he say that? What else is not being said? How many classified pages of the report were not put out into the public? Well, we have hints, right, from the Senators who heard it. The former head of the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee said, he was first briefed on UAPs nearly three years ago, long before 60 minutes did their little piece. And since then, he said the frequencies of these incidents only appears to be increasing. Today's inconclusive report is the beginning of efforts to understand and illuminate what is causing these risks to aviation in many areas around the country and the world. Marco Rubio, Senator and Vice Chair of the Intelligence Committee said for years, the men and women we trust to defend our country reported encounters with unidentified aircraft that had superior capabilities. And for years, their concerns were often ignored and ridiculed. This report is an important first step to catalog these incidents, but it is just a first step. We have endured ridicule from these authoritative voices for decades. I've said before, illusion, misdirection, ridicule. These are the three legs in the stool of covering deception. And they are used effectively by agencies which have resources that are so extensive that the normal human cannot imagine, ridicule. Lawyers have hold seminars in how to ridicule a witness to completely undermine their credibility so that nothing they subsequently said, even though it's the truth, matters. Those of us who have pursued information about this for all these years know the effects of ridicule. Well, what is the way forward? What are we going to do? Whether or not the military pursues UFOs in earnest, there has to be a civilian program. The military from the first has focused on the threat to security. But a civilian program can do science. Civilians, not just military, do science. And what UFOs really are, what they constitute, remains a scientific problem. It's not just a question of intelligence or counterintelligence. We need a study well designed to develop a strategy to test our hypotheses about what they are and distinguish among the different UAPs. This comes from Mark Rottiger, who is the head of the Kufo Center for UFO Studies. Mark is a very bright guy and he has worked in that area for decades and has shared the frustrations of not seeing the science supported that would enable us to do this. I mentioned SCU, you can look it up, Robert Powell, my colleague and co-author of UFOs and government. They have done analyses of recent incidents, including the ones we're talking about here, that are scientific. They use teams of scientists and that only report out in up to 200 page reports what they can verify is scientifically feasible and well documented. They approach it as a scientific problem and this is in contrast to how so many of the cottage industry of UFOites have pursued the problem, which is by hearsay their own misinformation because they don't know what they don't know or what they do know and their disinformation sometimes sponsored and intentionally designed. So it has to be a scientific problem for us to address in scientific ways. UFOs constitute an existential threat. It could be a threat to security in general. The technology is something we don't know how to do and you know the analogy, you should go back 200 years and describe cities a glow with electric lights and you'll sound like an idiot. The history of science is replete with the resistance humans mount against the truth when it threatens their belief systems and a superior technology like this invites disbelief and rebuffing it by saying, oh, that can't be true. But anytime I find myself saying that can't be true, I find it really pays to explore a little more. Don't forget that Richard Feynman said the keystone of advances in science is a fact that is also anomalous because it contradicts the belief system in which it doesn't fit. It has to be both. It has to be a fact. It can't be a non fact. And it has to be an anomaly. It has to be something that doesn't fit because then it prompts the question, well, if this is real, if this is true, if this is a fact, where does it lead us? What else must be true? If these reports all these years have been true, what does it tell us about covering deception operations? What does it tell us about how different government units operate as we document in our book? There's no one government. There's multiple government sectors. And they're often at odds with each other just as in the intelligence agencies. The couple of dozen of them. People are often pursuing a goal, but also highly or very much at odds with one another as well. Now, the security question is real because if one of our terrestrial adversaries figures it out first, we toast, right? We toast. Every major military advance from stirrups to bullets to guns on and on has given unsurmountable advantage to the one who got to it first. It's an existential threat too because it's a challenge to our societal beliefs. It's a challenge to our cultures and it's a challenge to our religions. Our religions are extraordinary resilient as we know. We continue to affirm religions formulated in the scientific worldview of 2000 years ago and successfully compartmentalize what we choose to ignore and what we choose to try to continue to affirm. But there does come a tilt. There does come a turning point which is why church attendance is so far down in America where people listen to nonsense and just can't stand it any longer. I'm not saying religions are nonsensical. I'm saying they become the excuse to say things which in the rest of your life you know you don't believe and you don't act on those things you say. You act on your true beliefs. Well, a challenge to those beliefs and the challenge to those beliefs all the way up to the level of cultural linchpins is a serious existential threat. And then of course there's the unknown. How do we deal with the vast unknown and realizing how tiny we are? Our galactic cluster, billions of galaxies with billions of planets in them. We know the universe is teeming with life. Easy to dismiss. Oh, where are they then? As if they should all be clamoring for our attention. Like I want my ant farm to pay attention when I walk into the room. It's not happening that way for good reason. We're not the top of the food chain. And if we're the apple of God's eye we're discovering that there are millions of apples on those very big trees. And as God loves all his apples, we're just one apple. It's always a challenge when we have siblings and we find out our parents love them too, right? Or as much as they love us. So what did make the hare on the back of his neck stand up? We wanna know. For him it was a challenge and a shock. I went through that myself years ago when I first got into this domain and began hearing credible reports from fighter pilots, people in intelligence, people in the military and just plain people who wanted to talk about what they'd experienced but which the authoritative voice had prevented from speaking loud, lest they'd be told they were drunk or crazy or ridiculed in other ways. The time for that kind of nonsensical ridicule is over. This domain has had debunkers, not skeptics. Those of us who pursue the truth of this have been skeptical in the extreme. It's valuable in a scientific consciousness. Debunkers are people who like committed atheists saying no, no, no. The way committed believers say yes, yes, yes. They're just as committed to know as a believer as to yes and just as foolishly wedded to their commitment which is based on emotional grounds, not on the rational grounds they put forth as the reasons they believe what they believe. Where are the debunkers now? When it's not us, investigators on our own who are advocating for the reality and the phenomena but the authoritative voices at all levels. Well, they're pretty quiet, aren't they? Where are the SETI people like Seth Chastain who's been debunking us with superior smirking for years? He's flailing about in the weeds because he would have an awful lot more to attack than the straw men and women SETI has invented in the pretense that their approach to discovering us to dress your life makes any sense at all. Well, I guess I'm gonna wind it up here by making a pitch for intelligence, clarity, passion, commitment and a radical willingness to open yourself to wherever the facts and the truth may lead. And today that's a difficult thing. The last slide has a picture of my latest book. I gotta pitch it, right? Mobius a Memoir. 25 years of my experience working with security and intelligence professionals has finally poured in to a single narrative. And it's a novel because as I often say, a deputy director at the National Security Agency said, you can't talk about what we talk about with you. You have to write fiction. Fiction is the only way you can now tell the truth. He was right. Well, 37 published short stories and now two novels later, Mobius a Memoir is the most truth I can tell in a narrative that's coherent, artful and includes that quarter century of deep listening to my colleagues. I encourage you to take a look at it. And we will soon, if it's not there now, be at the internet archive as a borrowable download in digital form one at a time as the rules go. But you can of course buy it in Kindle or print at a very reasonable price. Check out my website for it. I'm gonna repeat that HTTPS colon slash slash which we don't have to say anymore. Theme words, T-H-I-E-M-E W-O-R-K-S dot com. Once more, it has been a terrific privilege and a pleasure to be part of DEF CON 25 years after I first spoke here because this has been my home conference. A place where I'd never had to explain who I was because we all get it. We get who each other is straight up. And that's why we come back. So thank you for the invitation. Thank you for listening and thank you for being committed to exploring the system. It's all its complexity and intricacy. So you can take it apart and put it back together again in a way that works better. Thank you.