 Good morning, Bob. How are you? Good morning, Wendy. Good morning. How are you? I am doing well. Thank you very much for allowing me to participate in this group. Oh, fantastic. Great to have you. Is this Rich? This is. Speaking, yes. Hi, Rich. I feel like I had interacted with you a couple years ago. Did you ever apply or interact with Rocky Mountain Poison and Drug Center? No, that does not sound familiar. Okay. Then I probably didn't. There is another person named Richard Block who I had interacted with. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yes. So oddly enough, the only Richard Block that I know I believe is a magician. And so I am clearly that person. Got it. But, but I'm sure there are other Richard blocks that are out there. I believe there was a chemist from a hundred or 200 years ago with, with a same name or similar name. So a bit unusual. Yeah. Well, great to have you. Yeah, thank you. And so I'm happy to introduce myself to the group today. You would like me to do that? Let's hold on that. I want to just, I see people just dialing in right now. So, but we'll do introductions shortly. Good morning, this is Bill All. Good morning, Bill All. How are you doing? Good, good. Is your identity intact? Well, so far no damage. Okay. But, you know, that keeps me nervous. I'm sorry to hear that. I'm sorry you missed out on the conference. Yeah, I know. I really was hoping to meet you guys. Yeah. So I see your colleague just got online. Good morning, Logan. How are you? Good morning. Glad to have you on. And good morning, Bob. Dr. Kali, it looks like you're on as well. Good morning. Good morning, Richard. And, and Ravish, good morning to Ravish as well. And, so, and, Vipin, good morning. Good morning. How are you, sir? Very well. Thank you. Great to have you. Have you, have you dialed in before? No. I was invited to, to the patient subgroup, I guess, but not to this particular. Oh, okay. Oh, good. Good. Good to have you. Because I'm the chair of the identity working group. Oh, I, I'm looking at the, I'm looking at the name and it's, boy, this looks awfully familiar to me. So, so welcome. Great to have you. So, well, so that said, let's get started. It is the top of the hour. So first and foremost, good morning to everyone. I'm glad to have you on the call. Everyone should see if you're, if you're on the computer, you should see the agenda in front of you. It's the same agenda that's gone out earlier. So no changes to that. And before we get started, I want to just mention our antitrust policy. It's up on screen. So please review that. The upshot is just be a good person. And so feel free to read that at your leisure. So, normally I do ask if someone on the call could please take notes. So would anyone like to volunteer that? And it's just, just sort of high level notes so that I don't have to sort of stop and write or type as, as, as we're talking. I need to go. Holy, holy cow, we have a whole bunch of folks. All right. So I didn't hear who it was. So someone, I need a name. This is Logan. I'll be glad to. Oh, thank you, Logan. Excellent. Oh, hey, good morning, Alan. How are you, sir? I just saw you got on the call too. Good morning. Yeah. No, I wasn't going to arm wrestle for it. For the. All right. Thanks. Thank you for that. Well, okay. Great. So we do have a couple of new folks on the call. So I'd like to have them walk through introductions. So Wendy was on the call first. Take it off. Wendy, would you like to introduce yourself please? Oh, sure. Hello everyone. My name is Wendy Charles. I work at Denver Health. And Denver, Colorado. I have my PhD in health information technology. And I am an avid blockchain enthusiast, particularly for hyper ledgers. So my specific interests pertain to academic research and uses of blockchain and higher education as well. So I'm looking for熱ly oblique applications for clinical research. Outstanding and. So what, what aspect of, of hyper ledger? Are you looking at fabric or sawtooth or indy? Right now, primarily fabric. For the benefits of the private commission aspect. I can't say that I am very proud of this. I can't say that I am very familiar with the others, except I know that Indy is being developed for identity, so I'm eager to learn as well. Excellent, okay. And just, how did you find out about us? Yes, I was recommended by John Carpenter of the Blockchain, Government Blockchain Association. He recommended that I join. Oh, outstanding, excellent. All right, well, great to have you, Wendy, and thanks for calling in. We'll talk a little bit more about this particular general meeting and how it works shortly. But, let's see, a VIPIN, since you're a little bit more familiar and Wendy did mention a little bit about Indy, you want to introduce yourself? I don't know if anyone really knows entirely about you, but you're sort of a hyper-litra celebrity here. I don't know about that, but I have been involved with Hyperledger since the first, you know, before it was constituted. So, I have a long history, but that doesn't make me special. Well, you are a very good resource. All right. Oh, go ahead. I'm a blockchainist. That means that I basically am involved in so many different aspects of it, but primarily a technologist. And I run a small consulting company, which focuses on technology and business bridging technology strategy. I'm also the chair of the identity working group, and I'm also involved in the security and privacy working group, which is going to meet at 11. So, I thought I was mistakenly dialing in for that, but I am glad to have found the healthcare working group. So, I'm just going to listen for now because those two aspects, identity, security and privacy are important to healthcare, I believe. And I'll just listen to what you guys are talking about. Excellent. Well, first of all, great to have you, and it's good that you dialed in when you did. Where are you calling from, by the way? New York City, Manhattan. Okay, East Coast. Okay, good. Good to know. Okay, anyone else? It looks like I sort of recognize anyone else, but would anyone else like to introduce themselves? Feel free to do so. Okay. Yeah, everyone, I think we all sort of know each other otherwise. I see very familiar names here. And that said, let's continue. So, great to have particularly Wendy on the call and Vipin as well. It's always great to have newer members joining us. So, and just as a sort of a background or the way these general meetings work, this is really just sort of a roll-up of the work that we do in our ad hoc teams, as well as with our subgroups, and we'll hear from them shortly. And so I sort of run interference and sort of facilitate just to keep things rolling. And then for those of you that are newer, the idea is to sort of slot you into some of the other teams or subgroups where really the rubber sort of hits the road. And we'll talk about that shortly with our leads talking about the work that they're doing. Okay. Well, so that said, as far as community announcements go, I don't have anything particular to mention. I do have an interesting opportunity. And we'll talk about that more with Steven Elliott down the road. It tends to focus a little bit more about interoperability. And so we'll talk in that context shortly. So does anyone on the call want to do a shout out for some something that's hyperliterally related? Okay. So let's get into the subgroup updates. So I don't know if Ben is on the call. So we do have a patient member subgroup as Vipin had mentioned. And we just recently handed over leads. So, so mercy on Ronnie had to step away for work reasons. Ben Gigi took over about about three or four weeks ago, maybe two or three weeks ago. And their group meets every other Friday opposite this Friday at nine o'clock Pacific versus our seven o'clock Pacific time. So our meeting last week was really a discussion about sort of what we wanted to going forward and sort of the backstory is we currently have a donor milk project, which is really interesting. And so the use case for that is when a mother gives birth to a child sometimes prematurely and a mother can't produce milk at the time that the child is born. She's looking for milk resource. And so the group, the subgroup was working for quite some time with a company down in Southern California, developing effectively a sort of a special case supply chain to manage the resource and the sourcing for mother's milk. So that has been going going along quite well. And then we lost our customer, which is really also our SME or subject matter expert. And so we've been trying to figure out how to how to sort of reconstitute the project with with a subject matter expert or resource on that end. And that's been the discussion going forward. And as well, there's some talk about maybe bifurcating some of the work in the subgroup to continue to work on the donor milk project to the extent possible. And then to start looking for other opportunities that are more patient facing in the healthcare community using blockchain technologies. So and that may have been partly where where your name came up. And I believe that it may have been Marissa that had contacted you originally regarding that. So, so for anyone that's interested, feel free to contact myself or, of course, if you're familiar with our chat, you can go up on rocket chat and contact either the leads directly or feel free to contact myself and I'll sort of make a decision. Thank you for your introductions. And again, that that subgroup meets every other Friday opposite this Friday, but it says 7am Pacific, it's 9am Pacific. Okay, Ravish, you want to talk about the pair subgroup. Sure, I'm sorry I was not there last week or the previous week when we had meeting. Just a quick update. We have been kind of reforming, if you will, to kind of redefine the goals for the subgroup. So recently last, from last meeting, we sent out a survey, we collected some information, we're looking at that, and then accordingly deciding on, you know, how we move forward. And I am glad that we, I think it was, it was Wip and Wright, who was the identity chair who was on the call as well. Yes. Yeah, so Wip and, you know, I'm glad that you're here because a number of our discussions keep revolving around, you know, especially from their perspective, the identity is the key to start. And then, you know, move forward with any of the problem solving that we are talking about. So I would love to collaborate with you to, you know, share your thoughts, what you're thinking and since the identity group is going to be much broader than just healthcare. What kind of things you are thinking about and what can be leveraged by the healthcare pairs, if you will, to help them with the security and privacy. So that would be a great conversation. I would love to, you know, have you on our subgroup to talk about that. And on, you know, on the second item, which was the paper that we started with, we are looking to, you know, kind of finish our thought on that and get that going as well. So, which these are the two, you know, key things that we are working through. One is reorganizing to, you know, on the topics that we'll be covering this year. And second is looking at finishing the white papers that we started on regarding blockchain and application to healthcare pairs. Excellent. And how, what's your schedule for meeting? We meet every other Tuesday. And I have, there is a, the SIG wiki page as well that has the information. It's every two, every other Tuesday and we publish the information, you know, for the meeting. So I, you can go to the healthcare pair subgroup SIG page and you can see the meeting schedule there. Excellent. Okay, great. And so your next meeting is, is it next week Tuesday or a week from next? It's going to be a week from next. Okay, perfect. Thank you, Ravish. So our next subgroup, which is just coming online is the healthcare interoperability subgroup and Steven Elliott. Steven, you want to talk a little bit about that? I see Steven. He's muted. Well, let's see. Well, Steven. Oh, here we go. Am I off? Yeah, there you go. Good morning. Yeah, you're good. I don't know what happened. Technology. I've got the big screen. And yeah, anyway. Right. So the healthcare interoperability group is a group that was born from discussions around EMR, electronic medical records and electronic health records and personal medical records and all those other things. And the focus, the result of those conversations were many. One was that there's a specific interest in trying to put an episode of care and the knowledge artifacts that, that require that representation on a blockchain and how to do that and do it in the most simple, straightforward method possible so we can understand things like transactions and assets, how those can be interoperable, how consortium of maybe two health systems on a channel can share information in an interoperable way so that the meaning of whatever procedure or treatment or, or observation or medication, whatever on the blockchain can be mutually understood between all members, including the patient. Curious enough. And this is just beginning to ramp up. We have, everybody's been super busy since the beginning of the year. So we're just beginning to start to put together the charter for this so that we can get some kind of formal representation of what our goals are, which is really just to end up with some code that, that shows that we can exchange information between disparate health systems on a channel and, and how we do that. Things like policies, maybe we'll get into policy of interoperability or whatever. And so we're going to be doing this in a very streamlined bottom up type of fashion. Making a lot of assumptions about things like identity and security. So that we can address those later we just get to the critical issue of how we put this information on a blockchain and, and how that, what that looks like, whether we need to have additional information on a side chain. All these kinds of questions will be the kinds of questions that will be, will be, will be addressing. And will be the kinds of things that what we want to end up with the end of the day is, we know what the assumptions will be made. We'll have to come back and deal with us. In the meantime, this is what we ended up with and hopefully will provide a means to a service that other health care interested blockchains may be able to take a look at and adopt wholly or take a look at the idea and go in a completely different direction, but at least have some working code at the end of all this to say, look, this is what we've got. I'm going to be doing this through use cases and taking those and building them out and describing how they're going to be done. One of the first use cases and probably take a look at will be very simple case of an immunization will take a narrative like a mother and her child, maybe not even the child, maybe just the mother. It's going to keep things simple. Go to a walk in clinic and get a flu shot. And then weeks later go to their primary care physician and he's able to see or he or she is able to pull that record up and take a look at it and see that that's part of now their medical history, even though it wasn't part of his. It was done by somebody else so. This will be, I think, a bit different than some of the other working groups so the other working groups are focused on larger top down types of issues and this one will be something that we want to take a very thin slice and just work it from the bottom up. Let's see how what kinds of problems we run into and what kind of success we can have in getting that done. Part of what we're going to be doing will be working with in our healthcare interoperable SMEs, clinical informatics that may be able to help us represent that we will need people like clinicians but we'll also need coders. This is a very engineering focused group that would like to, you know, put something down and and have a means to show that and how that how it's implemented and and get other thoughts on how to expand that and then we'll be build out other types of use cases. And that will address maybe different facets like like HIPAA and healthcare and governance and consent management and all those other different types of questions. So yeah, this is hopefully we'll start meeting early March depends on how much work we get done this weekend and in the coming days. But yes, we're very focused on getting this bootstrapped and looking for anybody that don't need to be a coder, but enthusiasm, we need documentation. We need people that know blockchain so that they know what the peer is what an order is and how health hyperledger actually works. That'll be part of what we'll be doing. Yeah, general announcement hopefully will be coming in the next coming weeks and meetings will start hoping to march. Excellent. Yeah, so this is really exciting and as Stephen points out. So the other subgroups tend to work top down. And this is really more looking at it from a bottom up perspective so top down sort of focusing around sort of deliverables or projects that are sort of customer facing. Whereas I think what Stephen and his team are developing is something more bottom up, which is really services that can be sort of recycled reused in other similar contexts. And so this gets really, really interesting very quickly. And so, so Stephen the plan then is really I think you're in the process right now developing the charter. And as soon as the charter sort of gets complete, then we'll sort of put together a general announcement to membership. So that's on right. That sounds about right. Do you need any anyone to help with the charter or is that in hand. Well, I'm going to give it a shot this weekend and then we can distribute it maybe to other people that I don't know so you're still available or some of the others that there are other people want to collaborate on that. Okay, and I see, I see Bob is on the call so Bob Collie was was in part instrumental in getting the subgroup spun up as well so I see Bob on the call. Right. So, yeah, we'll get the we're going to we're going to first cut at the draft for that and we'll see where we stand after that. Perfect. See how we proceed. Excellent. Very excited to hear about this and some of us were at the HIMS conference last week and this was a really interesting sort of discussion point because it's it's pretty evident that there are folks that are very interested in understanding interoperability and how blockchain could help serve interoperability. So, so this gets really interesting real fast. So thanks for that, Steven. Oh, and, and then sort of related to this and I shared this with Steven earlier. It's interoperability interoperability related but but not necessarily related to Stevens proposed subgroup. I did see an email cycle and it's up online here. This is an opportunity for what's called an RFI. And it's the interoperability of medical devices data and platforms to enhance patient care and this is a formal RFI that that was released. I believe it went out last week I just found out about it. Okay. However, it's interesting because this might be an interesting opportunity for those of us that are interested in applying blockchain technologies to this particular use case. That's why I'm introducing it here because it's because it's in some way related to the interoperability issue. If anyone's interested in sort of following up or participating on that, let me know. I, what I'll do is I'll post this URL out on the, out on the chat channel. And if we can rally folks around this, I'd be happy to help facilitate that. I'm just looking when ours are due date on or before March 15 so we only have a couple of weeks to act on that so. So this, if anyone's interested or peaks of curiosity, we can sort of follow up on that as well. Okay, let's talk a little bit about our teams so we have in addition to subgroups we also have teams the teams sort of our sort of purpose built to focus on sort of more ephemeral things and so we're right now as probably most of us know we're in the process of migrating from an older docus wiki platform to the newer influence wiki. So aspects of our wiki structure are on confluence and some are still lingering on docu wiki. But what's really great is we have a redesign team that's been sort of working to help facilitate that and Brian here and probably mostly ravish have been working that ravish you want to maybe give us a little bit of an update on where we are with that that effort. Yeah, so what happened was, we were not able to get together earlier I know Jim was trying to reach it. I was trying to reach out to Jim, and the schedule didn't work, and I was not feeling well this week however yesterday we had a meeting. I was planning to join a bit late but could not however I did touch base with David. It looks like they had a good discussion, and they looked at various wiki pages, and what was decided was, Brian offered, since he's leading these social impact sig, I believe, he offered he will make changes to that based on looking at various sig pages, and then come come back with all the ideas baked into that page just for us to review. And once we agree on on that model then we can kind of trickle that down to all the sig pages. That's that's the overall that was the overall idea, because I think every sig has their own thought process and there are some goods, you know, goodness in each one of them from from different perspective. So that's where we are. We are right now. I believe David is going to schedule another call to kind of get together once came, you know, gets his updates in his wiki. Excellent. Okay, well good to hear. And yeah, so so there's a two part activity here. And basically if anyone has experienced using confluence that those are sort of the resources we're looking to use right now and feel free to contact Ravish. And so what we're really doing is, as we're sort of migrating over to the kind of fluence platform we're also trying to sort of establish sort of a more consistent sort of view or feel across sigs and the rationale behind that is, and and the vipin sort of mentioned this earlier. There's there's a lot of interactivity sort of cross cutting between sigs and particularly working groups as well. And so we want to make that apparent to to membership as as they may have to sort of work across sigs in order to get some of their work done. And so to facilitate that, I wanted to make sure that all the sigs sort of had a common sort of look and feel not necessarily absolutely the same but similar. So it's easier for membership to sort of transact in a cross cutting way. And so that's, that's the work that revision is team are doing and it my my suspicion is it'll take a little bit of time, but I think we're getting there so thank you for that. Ravish, appreciate it. Okay, we also have been doing some work in the academic research space. And I, and I, Logan, yeah, there's a lot of Logan's on the call. Logan, you want to talk a little bit about that or do you want me to introduce it or How do you want it? Yeah, so the, what was the gentleman's name was actually driving the that effort. So that we talked to. Yeah, that's Adrian, Adrian Berg. So, so I'll give you a little bit of history and then then Logan maybe you can sort of give us an update. So, so the the academic research group is really just a handful of folks. This this sort of kicked off back and I want to say October or so of last year and the gist of it is we we notice that in health care health care tends to be very academically wedded. And so things tend to move in the same way in in the academic space as they do for for health care, meaning that health care will look to processes that exists in academia, which means anything new that comes along tends to be vetted through more formal channels, which are white papers or papers that are peer reviewed through journals and approved organizations. So, so these, these sort of academic aspects in the health care space haven't really been addressed for the use of blockchain technologies quite yet, in part because the technologies are still quite new. And, you know, that infrastructure hasn't really been completely sort of built out it is happening. But it's a slow process. And the value of this of course is that if we can sort of help manage this these academic research resources, we'll be able to get some value or validation of blockchain technologies in health care by virtue of using the same systems that the health care community has been using for years, which is these these peer reviewed papers. So, so this team is really looking at ways to sort of sort of approach this in a way to help sort of vet the process maybe facilitate the process. So it's easier for people in the health care space that are interested in blockchain technologies can do do their own due diligence. And they have at their at their disposal, these these very well peer peer reviewed papers to use as resources for making sort of these objective determinations as to whether it, you know, any particular platform is better than another platform given their particular use case or context. So that said, we met, I think it was just just maybe a week or two ago, and, and Logan has been involved in sort of sort of summarizing some of the work that we wanted to going forward so so Logan, you want to take it from there. Thanks, Rich. So very specifically, we're focusing in on academic medical centers. So very specific term, there's over 100 of them in the US. An academic medical center is defined by three things really. Number one, it's, it's, it's a practicing medical institutions usually hospitals that deliver care to people. Number two, it's a teaching facility. In other words, there are med schools, medical schools that are attached or affiliated with those hospital practices. And most importantly, as Rich mentioned, number three, they conduct medical research and they publish. And so having had some experience in this field working with AMCs in the past. We're going to, we've got a list of basically people that we can approach and we're currently defining how we want to approach them to essentially work with them to get some peer reviewed research published very specifically. It's of note to Ravish that generic Oh, what's what's the word I'm looking for the generic episode of care that I published to you is in effect the same thing that we're going to be approaching academic medical centers with right it's it's as I think below mentioned or defined in an earlier paper that we jointly worked on. US health care is is quite disparate in terms of how it's delivering health care that you know there's primary care providers specialists hospitals and ERs pharmacists. There's public health institutions family and caregivers and community resources that all could potentially be involved in delivering of health care. It touches Stevens problem of obviously interoperability. We're very focused on, you know, let's let's approach academic medical centers that already have a significant piece of those deliveries delivery agents if you will, and to figure out how we can work with them to make something that not only can deliver show the value of blockchain, but also engage the patient in a way that that this the medical records that are involved in this episode of care are actually count on the patient to be part of those care team roles in delivery. Does that make sense to everyone and love to open this up for comments or questions. So, so excellent summary Logan and I think you're in the process of putting together sort of a summarizing page or two to sort of baseline the work that's been done thus far and and plans for next steps. I am. So, so when Logan gets that published, we'll make that available to membership. And so anyone that's interested in sort of working on this team. You know, feel free to contact either myself or Logan or Adrian. And again, you can use the chat channel and contact us directly or feel free to contact me through through email, and I'll make introductions. And yeah, so this gets really interesting. And again, this is just really an interest out of those of us in membership that see the need for, you know, validating or vetting blockchain technologies in the healthcare space, particularly just knowing that healthcare needs to be very established or particular in in their process for evaluating anything new, including technology. So, so we want to try to make that make that engagement as easy and as facile as possible. So that's that's the purpose of this team here. Okay, well thanks Logan I appreciate it and and Adrian is often on the call I know he's not today. And special thanks Adrian for his work as well. Okay, so we'll get some some old business just for those of you that are fairly new to the group. So if, if you're interested in getting published, consider that we have over 1000 members in this special interest group. So 1000 members, obviously are sort of pre filtered so we know that they have an interest in in healthcare, and further they have interest in blockchain technologies, and even further still, we can make a pretty good assumption that they have an interest in using the hyper ledger platforms to do some of that work. So and the reason why I say that is that's that's over 1000 folks that may be interested in in collaborating with you on a paper that you may be interested in writing. Or they may have a paper that they want to write and that you may want to collaborate with them. And so what we've done is there we have a page that we put together, which is really, it's sort of crowdsourcing the concept here. And let me see if I can move this out of the way. So I sort of kicked us kick this off a couple of weeks ago and really this is this is a kind of a true story. I wrote an article and my editor has that I don't know where it's been published yet. I wrote an article about blockchain technologies. And I thought to myself, you know, this was done, more or less sort of in in the vacuum, and yet I still should have. And of course this is hindsight which is always 2020 should have thought well gee I've got over 1000 people that I could tap and and have them collaborate with me to add real value and extra sort of perspective to to the article. So this is a way to sort of get around that issue and to say hey if you've got an idea feel free to use this you can you know edit this wiki page directly and make an announcement out on on the chat channel or through our listserv or email and say hey I'm interested in writing a paper about X whatever the topic may be, you can sort of have a thesis of just a kind of one liner to maybe get people interested in what you're what you want to sort of discuss in that article or white paper, and then just add to that collaborators and then you know take it offline. Once you get to a point where you think the, you're ready to go. So this is just really just a simple exercise or a mechanism that allows people to sort of rally around common themes. If you're interested in writing on the topic of hyper ledger in the healthcare space. So this page is as available to you it's through the wiki, you can edit it directly and again feel free to do so. Again, the whole purpose of that is to make it easier for those of us that that are interested in writing and getting the word out to to sort of the blockchain technologies community. And so that you know you can you can help to educate. There are an awful lot of folks out there that still believe blockchain is literally Bitcoin so we need to dispel that. Okay, and then we are also coming up close to the kidney X redesign dialysis prize, which is a competition that is it's national competition. Myself and Alan Bachman have been sort of working this issue. And it's due next week so we're coming up to the end. So Alan and I have been talking. I don't know Alan let's see last time we got together was was it Monday of this week. Yep. Yep. Okay, so I do have some information to share with, well with with the with the group here but although I'll probably take it offline with with Alan but the upshot is I had a very good meeting yesterday with our chief medical officer at Northwest kidney centers and just sort of a quick backgrounder. I know some of you are familiar with with sort of my interest in health care but I am active in the kidney care community out here in Seattle kidney care really meaning dialysis or or chronic kidney disease management. And as it just so happens kidney dialysis was invented here in Seattle in 1960. And then in 1962 Northwest kidney centers, which is currently now the third largest not for profit kidney care dialysis center in the United States is also located here in Seattle, as well as an organization that the Northwest kidney centers spun out for the sake of research called the kidney research Institute. They're here in Seattle as well and so when this particular competition arose it seemed seemed like a good idea to try to get involved in that and apply and think about applying blockchain technologies to the kidney care space. So so that said, I had a really excellent conversation with the CMO of Northwest kidney center she had some great insight and ideas on how to sort of apply blockchain technologies to some of the pressure points that exist in particularly in home dialysis, which is where a patient does dialysis at home rather than in in a center. So, so we'll take it offline but my gut would be I don't know if we're going to have time to get the paper published or put together by our deadline. However, that said, I got a lot of enthusiasm to try to continue this conversation. Suzanne, our CMO has really has asked that we find a way to maybe connect with her beyond this particular competition because she sees a lot of value in this thread of discussion. So, but like I said, what we can talk offline a little bit more in depth about some of the specifics. Yeah, I think I think, you know, I think this is great CVS health is really making some big movements in making improvements for kidney care, doing some IoT things where blockchain can help and some of the conversations, you know, you and I have had opened my eyes to, you know, things that we can do to improve the member experience. Right. And I think I took a stab at drafting up a submission already. Oh, wow. Trying to look at the, the why you would want to use blockchain right, you know, it's not just about chain washing solution. It's about, let's have a solid use of blockchain, you know, we're not sprinkling everywhere. But let's focus on just the member experience, right, what can we do for the member without them even realizing that they're using blockchain. Yeah, exactly. And I'll just I'll just very quickly note that Suzanne was really interested in introducing IOTs into that into that sort of technology solution. And she got very excited about that or IOMTs. So IOT is Internet of Things. IOMT is sort of a newer sort of turn of a phrase Internet of Medical Things. And so, so that that really got her interested. And like I said, I think we there's a potential for sort of longer term discussions. And my suspicion, and I'm probably getting ahead of myself a bit as I imagine we may decide to spin out a subgroup that sort of focuses around this particular use case, because it seems to be so, so full of potential here. So anyway, you know, I'm jumping the gun on that a little bit. But again, thanks Alan for your work and we'll try to talk offline very quickly about the stuff. So, and of course, anyone that's on the call that is interested in participating in this, you know, feel free to sort of ping either Alan or myself. I do have notes that I put together that are up on the Google Drive, and I'll push those out through the chat channel, so that anyone can have access to them. Okay, so so moving on so that's exciting. And of course, you know, good things I think are going to come out of that. As well for for people that haven't already our survey, I think I extended our survey out an extra week or so. And I believe we're looking at end of month for the survey to close. I think we have probably about 30 folks that have responded to date, which given that we have over 1000 members that's that's terrible. You know, we should at least have a 10% response rate. And so please, if you have not taken the survey yet, please do so. The link is available where you see it up on the thing there. And the value really goes to making sure that anything that you're you have a particular interest in is caught or captured in the survey so that we can sort of make changes to the way that this particular SIG works and functions, and that we're doing the things that that you see value the most value in collectively. Has anyone not taken the survey. Are you willing to say as much. Yes, I haven't taken the survey sorry. That's okay, but but you're you're okay I'll give you the pass. But anyone else that's on the call that hasn't taken the survey. You ought to. So, yeah, I'll admit this is when they all admit I haven't done it. But I will. Yeah, and in your your fairly new so I will give you the pass. Okay, so anyone that hasn't yet please please do so it's really is important to us because really, given that we have such such a large membership and a very small sort of vocal group of people that are active in this community. You know your your value becomes significant in the direction of and the voice of the special interest group so so that because important that that you do participate. Okay, great so so moving on to something that some really interesting news. We did have the HIMS conference, which was last week. And I can never remember but it's healthcare information management, something society blah blah blah it's someone who knows what this anyone know what this really is. All right, well anyway, it's a healthcare conference and it focuses around it. That's really sort of the takeaway and it's huge 45,000 people to that to that end. It's sort of the most significant healthcare conference in this context, internationally. And so I was, I was lucky enough to go. We had probably a contingent of about 15 or so folks from this healthcare sig that were that participated in the conference. I went through through hyper ledger so I spent most of my time at the hyper ledger booth and and talked at length about, you know, the context of blockchain technologies in healthcare. And of course, hyper ledger isn't particularly healthcare centric, but this particular this particular special interest group happens to be so. As a result, we really serve as an interface to that healthcare community and it was really amazing. From my perspective, given that I had attended last year as well. This past year, the delta between understanding in the healthcare community of blockchain technologies in this one year is absolutely stunning, particularly using the backdrop of healthcare. The progress of healthcare technologies being as glacial as it tends to be. I was very, very surprised at how quickly people have come up to speed on healthcare technology on blockchain technologies in particular. So last year, just to put some context to this. Last year, people came up to us and sort of, you know, what's what's title up to us and say well I know I need to know about this thing called blockchain, but what is it. So we were talking at a much more abstract level. And this year, people are fully cognizant of the technologies. And we're asking very, very good questions and having very good conversations that were much more granular and much more informed than I think most of us had even expected, which is phenomenal. So I'm just just a kind of a quick pass on attendees this morning. I don't know. I know Bilal, you sort of lived on the Florida area. I don't know if anyone else actually was on that's on the call was there that could add to it. What I'm going to what I'm hoping to do is a couple of our more active members. And I know it's difficult for them to make this particular call. We'll try to get some some notes together. Two things, however, I'll add that to me are were significant threads of conversation that seem to come up more than once. Number one, use cases we got at we were asked very often very frequently, what are your use cases that you might be wanting to demonstrate, or do you have use cases that you can share with us. Now to me that's a little unusual, because it seems like you're trying to sort of shoehorn blockchain technologies into a specific instance. However, it is, like I said, it was pretty clear to me that we had so many people that were asking about use cases. So, so here's I'm going to open this up to a little bit of discussion. I thought we used to have use cases floating around. But let's assume we don't. I'd like to see if we can maybe get a at least an ad hoc team together to maybe start developing healthcare use cases using blockchain technologies. And specifically, some of our platforms fabric sawtooth or indie. Anyone else want to participate in that. I, like I said, my interest is in trying to serve the need of what I heard in last week's discussions from from conference attendees. I'm not going to. I'd love to participate in that. Okay. Yeah, so, again, like I said, it was very, it was pretty clear to me that this is this, you know, that this seems to be a deficit that that we as a, as a, as a SIG have here it I don't, I don't see tremendous value in it. But I do understand that we learn by example and I think the way that's maybe the proper way to sort of see how these use cases get used is that, you know, if we, if we present enough disparate use cases that people may be able to sort of infer from that where there is value where they may see value in blockchain technologies. Again, to me that seems that seems a little bit backwards. But, but again, that's, that's what we're being asked. By the way, the Hyperledger community is supposedly assembling a set of use cases. So, instead of doing the work over, I suggest you contact Gordon Graham, who's the technical writer for Hyperledger and who possibly has a handle on this, I'll send him a note as well. Oh, excellent. And, you know, and there was a presentation of a pretty high, pretty high profile use case at the Hyperledger Global Forum in Basel. It was a big healthcare healthcare sort of service provider who talked about the application of Hyperledger fabric and that is a very extensive and in fact it was a CEO of this particular company. I don't remember the name right now, but I can dig it up and set it up or set it up on the, on the channel. The other couple of things that came up, which mentioned my name, one was Ravish talking about the identity use case. I mean identity concerns or identity interests from this group. And I think you guys should come to the identity working group calls as well. I mean, if you can spare some time, it's every alternate Wednesday. The last one was this Wednesday, but so it'll be two weeks from two weeks Wednesday from last Wednesday at noon in New York, which means it's 9am. So, you know, a lot of subjects get talked about. And one of the most interesting ones was about the concerns that this gentleman, I think his name is Stephen was talking about with respect to the sharing or interoperating the patient information between different providers or even different entities in the healthcare ecosystem. The groundwork or a foundation provided by Indy will help you because this is about claims processing and I do not know whether the patient is fully in control of releasing this information because ostensibly that is the case. But in practice, it doesn't seem to be the case, meaning like the doctors seem to be able to exchange information, especially if they are in the same hospital about the patient without express consent. And in this case, the, you know, the Indy case, the claims are controlled by the, by the patient. And we are also starting this project called Envoy, which is about exchanging information on the edge. It's an edge protocol. So really speaking, the PII, which is personally identifiable information which might include health records. It says should not be deposited on the blockchain, but rather in an ancillary system and then exchanged out of band. But the proofs are deposited on the blockchain. So, you know, you can then examine the proof and say that, you know, these things were done. Anyway, instead of going on and on about this, I am basically what I'm saying here is that there is a lot of interesting work going on in other groups that may have bearing on what you guys are talking about. So instead of reinventing everything, you know, we should try to build bridges and try to get information from other groups so that we can bootstrap ourselves in a much better way. Excellent. Well, good input. And thanks for that, Fippin. And yeah, so for those people that are interested, to the Vippin's point, sitting in on his working group meetings would be helpful. And of course, also, if you sort of want to wade in, there's also a channel up on rocket chat that you can sort of sort of introduce yourself, sort of wade into the conversation that way as well. So thank you for that, Fippin. I appreciate it. Let's see. So the last point regarding the conference had to do with governance, which really was also a little bit of a surprise. It had more to do with how do you manage a blockchain solution once you've got it implemented. And this tends to be more of a longer term consideration that tends to center on something called DevOps, which is really sort of the ongoing maintenance and upgrade of the solution. So this may be something else that we want to talk more about. I'm mindful of our time. We're coming up to the top of the hour. So what I think I'm going to do is I'll add this to our next agenda and pick up the conversation on this point two weeks from today, which is our next meeting. So that would be Friday, March 8, which is seven, seven o'clock Pacific time. And again, for those of you that are fairly new, we meet every other week. So every second week on a Friday, seven o'clock Pacific time. And in the morning, AM 0700. So and again, you have many sort of many ways to communicate outside of just these meetings. We have the listserv or the email thread that you feel free to make use of. I, you know, we have some really very, very bright and intelligent folks that that we want to be able to communicate that information to membership. So if you've got an idea or you have questions, feel free to use the listserv. And also we also have the rocket chat channel, which is available. Really all you need to do is have make sure your Linux foundation ID is set up so that you can just log in and go from there. With that said, any final comments or thoughts before we close out for the week. All righty. Okay. Well, good. So thanks everyone. Have a great weekend and we will see you back here in exactly two weeks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.