 As Akiti State prepares to choose a new governor later in the year, infighting threatens the victory of the all-progressive Congress. And the illegal oil mining saga in River State, the governor has accused a police officer of the illegal activity. Well, this is Plus Politics. I'm Mary Anna Cole. The Akiti State gubernatorial election is fast approaching and, with it, another crisis seems to be brewing within the all-progressive Congress. A former Minister of Works, Dayo Adeye, has warned against the imposition of candidates on the members ahead of January 27, Shadow Paul. He said members would resist the plan to impose a candidate on the party, adding that it would be a disastrous one to allow the imposition of an unpopular candidate to fly the party's ticket. He urged the National Leadership of the APC to adopt a direct primary mode to select its candidates for the June 18 governorship election. Now, late last year, Special Advisor on Political Matters to the President, Senator Baba Fermi Ujjuru, warned that the division and disunity among the members of the party in Akiti State could deprive the party of victory in the coming election. Well, joining us to discuss is Bimbo Daramala. He's a former member representing Akiti North Federal constituency, one in the House of Representatives. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you very much. So, I mean, everybody's wondering what exactly is happening within the APC in Akiti State? Because all hands need to be undecided, getting ready for June. Well, you're becoming an advocate of the APC now, and that's nice to have you on our side. To have APC on our side, because you're concerned. I'm not advocating, I'm just being a journalist. Fantastic, but then that sounds very pleasing to my ears that we have you expressing this kind of interest in our party. But that being the case, political parties by construct would always be a cauldron subsidence of some sort. A cauldron subsidence in geology, which is what I, which is the course I studied in school, talks about constant combustion of ideas, interests, and all of those inter-party issues. And that is legitimate in a place where there's a permanent contention for power. Now, what you will be asking will be power to serve who or in the interest of who. Ordinarily, what would expect that because you belong in the same party, you have subsumed and subscribed to the irreducible minimums that has brought all of us together who laid down our sovereignty and were willing to pick up our collective and corporate sovereignty and then advance the people's interests. Because if you do a simple calculation of politics minus people, what you get yourself. And then you may as well go and do something else if you want to do anything yourself. The reality that we are faced with today, and it didn't just start today, it's lasted for three years. Some of us have been outside of the mainstream of the party for the past three or four years. Not that we like it so, but because we have attempted to say the establishment couldn't do this. Couldn't do this. The provision of the party would naturally have us do this. Don't run against it. So you're saying that the APC has been hijacked by certain people in the past three years. Is that what you're speculating? Well, that's very true. I mean, if you go get on the streets in the Kitties today and you mentioned Tocco Tocco, everybody knows what Tocco Tocco Group means. And that means irrefutably from the heart of the governor, so to speak. People who love the governor from the heart, that's the meaning. But I'm not too sure any of those guys actually love the governor more than some of us who care about his date with history. There's a judgment of man, which is fickle. But there's a judgment of posterity that nobody can tweak with. And because nobody can tweak with that, some of us who have known him for long enough to have 42 years going strong now, we're concerned about the legacies he will be living behind. We're conscious of the fact that there will be the judgment of history. And we want him to be on the right side of history. We want him to be able to hug his past and not for his past to hug him. Is that why you collapsed your structure and stood behind the candidate, Bhamidili, today? Is that the reason? Because I know that you used to run the campaign of Govna Fahyemi. Very true. Thanks for that. I decided to collapse my structure to work with Senator Michael of Bhamidili because he exemplifies everything that I exemplify, you know. He's a thorough-bredicated person, indigenous by nature. He comes really strong with heavy credentials that will make him anybody's pride on the face of the planet. But Nigerians have gone past credentials. You've had leaders who somewhat have had the credentials. But when it comes down to delivering on the dividends of democracy, we hardly see that. Well, you see, when people talk about the dividends of democracy, there are ways and perspectives to it. It's not just in giving the marwas and the care-cares and the court-classes and all of those things. Those are not dividends of democracy. Fantastic, so we're on the same page. I wonder why you're categorizing that. No, no, but then that's what they say. That's what the ordinary man on the street understood. Who's they? Oh, ordinary man on the street. Oh, we don't see you. You're not giving money. You're not around all the time. You're not giving stuff to people. You're not identifying. That's what the ordinary man on the street identified. You're tossing the ordinary person on the street to see that as a dividends or to see that as a form of empowerment. It's the same political class. So why are you blaming them? That's not very correct. You're making it appear as if the political class, suddenly, he might, like, shouts down his story. We're a product of the society. Exactly. Right, so if we're a product of the society, we cannot totally begin to go into the process of delineation and then acquire a new nature. We can't. Legitimately so, I was born and raised in this environment. And so I'm going to walk into my future with the traits of the environment that raised me. So, now, if a legislator is voted into position, for instance, he's got three jobs to do. Go make laws, represent the people, and appropriate resources, end of story. But nobody wants to hear that, and we understand because poverty has been weaponized and everybody wants survival at all costs. And because you want survival, you want every dime that you possibly can get. And so the job of the parliamentarian for all it means on this part of the globe has been skewed and now interpreted to mean that empowerment, what we call empowerment, now should be how many cars you're able to give, not how many jobs you're able to give. And this is where the interest of this campaign is going. I am particularly interested in this candidate, in this aspirant, because he has defined his values and his character supports the values that he espouses. And on the basis of that, I am strong in my mind, when you talk about credentials, will you give your wedding dress to your cousin or your brother or your sister, who is a tailor in training? No, you won't. And so that's where your credentials, your capacity, your competence, your capability speaks to the issue. And we're talking about wedding dress now. We're not talking about politics that affects lives. We're talking about who takes the button from October 16, 2022 and leads us into the next four years. Interesting. He's been a lawmaker. He's never been a governor. So these are two different jobs. Let me also... I'm going somewhere, obviously, because you were talking about the fact that we're looking at clothes and what... Yes, credentials do matter, but we have, like I said, had so many people who have been spoken glowingly well of. In fact, they've had great antecedents, but then when it comes down to doing the job, we see lapses. But then let's not jump the horse. Okay. What does Senator Obama daily have to offer that would make him stand out? Because this election is going to be a fiercely fought battle. We've seen all those strong politicians on even the opposite side. And even within the party. But what makes him stand out for you as a person? All right. First and foremost, Thoroughbred the Kitibah. And when I say Thoroughbred, I'm saying that in the context of the fact that he understands our peculiarities. He understands the fact that education is our industry. And he wants to focus on that, on that agenda. He also believes very strongly that we need a collegiate leadership at this point in time. We don't need a leadership that talks down on everybody. If, and I hope by the grace of God, as I speak to 80 people today, they would understand that this election is just another election. This is an election that would define not only what happens to us in the immediate terms of it, because we're fast losing it. People are beginning to get hopeless. They're not the thing that makes us want to say with pride that we're a kitty people. We've lost it or we're losing it. And the only way to get that back is to have a collegiate leadership that ensures and assures you that you have a place in government and you have a place and a role to play. Now you asked me what is bringing to the table. I told you about being a Thoroughbred kitty man. And of course you will say to me that okay, fine, the other one's a Thoroughbred. I agree. But you also will also expect that for a man, and you missed it by saying that he's never been governor. If he's been governor, he won't be running for governor for a second term. But let me tell you, he's been prepared for this job. How do I know? Not only has he served as special advisor in Lagos. He served two administrations that battered the renewal of Lagos. Starting with Ashurajibola and Meredith Nebo. He was in the incubation room. And everything, I may not be able to speak about the last four years, but I can speak to the last, to the preceding eight years immediately after the military went back to the barracks. Okwe Mbamidili had taken a seat in the cabinet of Lagos State and he handed it because he's been able to keep that for 12 years unbroken. You don't keep it in a place like Lagos where the best of the brains have been hired and headhunted to form the cabinet. If you look at all of the guys that Yemi or Shiba Joe, with your respect, the Vice President, DG Budget, Ben Acabuese, Aragbe Shola, Orelupu Adifulire, the Postmaster General today, and a whole lot of them. Ten of them, ten of them were his colleagues in cabinet. And of course, when you start the journey of transformation, even if you're a bystander, and Okwe Mbamidili wasn't a bystander, go and check the records of your achievement. I mean to the glory of God and his effort and his vision, we have an Unicon Stadium today. And many more, you know, that I cannot begin to expect. So what you're talking about, great. It's very beautiful, the things that you have outlined. But the Nigeria of today, the Akiti State of today, it's not the Akiti or the Lagos stage of Balaamid-Tinibu, things have changed. Exactly. The things that Akiti people want may not necessarily be the things that he had to offer when he was in Lagos state government. Now the 21st century administration has equal determination. You should be able to fit into your government and governors. The metrics of your government and governors should be able to, if you take it and slam into the United States, into New York State, for instance. You should be able to fit. But New York has won different things. Oh, I'm going to second. I'm going to second. Today, nobody is talking about leadership that is talking about little things about power, pay salaries and things like that. We're talking about strategic linkages that delivers. The 21st century is going to be one that will task your strategic capacity to leverage on collaborative ventures. Yes. And so, if you come to this election and you cannot clearly show that you are surrounded by resources that you can tap into and use that for the purpose and the benefits of the people, you don't have a business looking for this job. So, let's talk about the economy of a QT state, which should be the basic. That's the first thing that the governor should concern himself. Anybody who becomes governor or anybody running for that office, how, what is his plan in developing the economy of a QT state? We have underemployment. We have unemployment. We have brain drain. We have a lot of young people who have unfortunately become the devil's workshop because there's nothing to do. And like you said, he's capitalizing on education, but what happens? There are lots of people who have graduated. Universities are churning their mouths in their numbers, but there's nothing to do. What is his campaign doing in that direction? Let me tell you very clearly that, first and foremost, I ran for the same state in 2018. I had been the director general of a gubernatorial campaign before, and I ran a damn good campaign. And I'm not saying that, I mean, people can spot check that, but the truth of the matter is that I'm in a position to speak about, first and foremost, somebody who has capacity to get the job done. I didn't just isolate education because education is central to everything, but then you mentioned economy. Economy feeds into education, okay? Now, we're talking about knowledge-driven economy today. We're not talking about economy that is thriving on mineral resources anymore. There are nations of the world that have huge deposits of crude, hydrocarbons. But we won't touch it. Listen, this device generates more money for Finland than crude oil, and we live our lives off this. So if you tap into the potentials, the value proposition that this delivers, you would have turned... And equity state is a very small state anyway. And obviously, we're not that sophisticated. That means our demands are modest. And because our demands are modest, we will not ask you like Lagos people will ask this governor. So if you have a governor who understands how the turnaround of Lagos happened and is able to bring that vision and tweak with it to fit our local realities, what will we expect? I mean, you're not looking... It is not looking for a governor who, after turning the last sheet of his inauguration speech, is wondering, oh, so I'm here. What do I do? We're looking for a governor who can plug into his local realities, who can plug into experiences, who can plug into exposure and say, okay, fine. We need to deal with the issue of reordering and renegotiating of our debts. And he knows to call. Somebody who brings recall and recognition to the table. You don't want a governor who needs to be introduced to somebody. So where he matters? You don't want a government that will be run by proxy. What exactly are you going at here? Are you, in one way, saying that the government of Governor Fayemi is being run by proxy? I'm not talking about Governor Fayemi. So what government are you addressing? All I'm saying is that I am talking about who takes over the batting from Dr. Fayemi. Dr. Fayemi has done his bit anyway. And he's exiting in maybe eight months, nine months. So the question to ask is, and again, you see, one of the things that worries me is that there's a political culture that tends to start and end with elections. Nobody talks about the management of succession. Nobody talks about the leadership management that ensures that everybody has a vision that we can plug into. And regardless of who comes in, you are far more. Is that not the job of the people who are stakeholders in Iqiti State? And I'm not just talking everybody in Iqiti is a stakeholder. I'm talking about the elder statesmen, the people who may call themselves kingmakers. Is there not supposed to be a succession plan? I mean, many people will point to Lagos as a state that has a succession plan of sorts. But there are states who also have that plan. For example, I just realized that Anambra does have a committee that is being set up for governance. And there are many people who sit in that committee. One of the persons who was heading that committee is now the governor in waiting of Anambra State. Why can't Iqiti also come up with that plan? Well, I think you have the gift of Nostradamus. You now know what I'm talking about. This is one of the reasons why we need the man like Oppai Mbadele at this time. Having seen how he worked in Lagos. Having seen how the GNC works around supporting the governor. And we don't have a GNC in Iqiti for instance. And GNC, what GNC does is that they provide the local realities. They make the government and the governor see the dimensions that they don't see as political people. Now Anambra Mbadele, who has seen that work in Lagos, now is in the position to run, like he said, a collegiate leadership that will ensure that going forward, we don't even have to get into the tussle of six people, thirty people running for elections. It's an aberration. And you see there's mutual distrust when you find a situation where thirty, three, six, seven, ten people are running for elections. And there's nobody not to rein them in, but to say, come, we have ethos. We have a creed that must guide our succession because we've all collectively built this party. But then that's where the problem is. The legacy of Iqiti State or the progress that Iqiti State should be experiencing in the years to come should not boil down to a party, should it? Does it mean that only the APC has the wealth of knowledge of the people who need to lead Iqiti State or the ideas that can take the state ahead? Shouldn't we be talking about Iqiti people as a whole and not necessarily a party? I mean, I know that you're here to speak for your party, but... Right. Again, that's very correct, but I spoke about your political culture. And that political culture is not tied to APC alone. It also reflects on the other parties. In any case, why should we have two political parties, dominant political parties? Why can't we have somebody who says, I don't care about PDP, I don't care about APC, I want to give it a short headlong on the basis of character, competence, capability, and ability to deliver. But that amounts to being an independent candidate and the constitution does not make room for that. And of course, you know that the parties do have ego, so you can't just say, well, let's collapse all our structures into one party. Don't forget that. I'm asking, can that happen? Of course, yes, it could. Dr. Rahman... In Nigeria. Dr. Rahman Mimico pulled it with Labour Party in understate. Everybody... He had only just left as minister of the PDP. And President Ambassador did everything to get him to run on the ticket of the PDP. And he said, no. And he didn't want to have anything to do with us, as he said at the time. And he said he was going to fly his own plane. And he did, and he won. Well, she only did the same thing. So for some time with Labour Party, what I'm trying to say is that we must... And this is another dimension of politics. A politics, a political culture that tends to just glorify... You see all of the agitations going on now, you see all of the... Going on now, as soon as elections are done and over with. And then we wait... But does that not also point to a House that is not in order? Because at some point, the party will know who the cap fits one way or the other. But then it does... I'm still asking the same question. Does it not show a House that is not in order? It's okay to throw your hat into the ring, but should we be seeing the level of agitation that we're seeing right now? Now, there must be... Even in Boy Scout or in Guest Guide, there are people who aspire to head or to lead them. Of course. In secondary school or nursery school, there are people who will never make it to the front of the class. Not because they're not brilliant, but by character. And you get into the academics, you say, have you satisfied this university in character and learning? And the Bible expressly... I mean, the Bible has records for this. You say, come with your strong reasons. Whoever wants, if there's no culture to kind of define who could run, then what you will be bringing to the table should be the things that you are annihilating. At this election, let me tell you, background matters. This is a party of history. And there's no way you forget your history that you'll be able to consolidate your future. Upper Emi Ba Midele had been this and that. And I'm surprised that you're saying criticisms don't matter. Because we've seen these criticisms. I just asked you a question, sweetheart. I just asked you a question. Will you give your wedding dress to a tailor in training? Nigeria is not a wedding dress. We're talking about serious issues here. That's what I'm saying. As little as that. Okay, fine. If your cousin and your cousin, your brother, whoever, is visually impaired, mentally challenged, will you put him behind the steering wheel? You wouldn't do that. And it is even more important, because by that stroke of pain, the fortunes and the fate of many would be consigned to dustbin of history by wrong decision. And this is why I said to myself, let me tell you, I'm not a political hireling. Nobody can hire me. Indeed, I had said I was done with this. But you were hired. That's not possible. How much are you going to pay me? But you are hired. But you're running a campaign and you're being paid to run that campaign. No, no, no. You're doing it for free. Are you doing it for free? Are you doing it for free? Can you go on the record to say you are doing this for free? Look at me. Zero naira. How much is he going to pay me? I'm not rich, but I'm comfortable in my own skin. And I don't need to prove a point. Let me make you, let me tell you this. The one thing that binds me and Senator Michael, or pay me banditly on this voyage is the interest of the people of the state, for the love of the people and for the love of the state no more. Great. Don't forget that. Hark it and came. Where are you from anyway? Cross River. Ah, okay, I know. If anything is happening to... What does that mean? Right. You may not see the passion. Look at what your former governor before he came. Look at what he did in that place. I've been to Cross River a couple of times. Ben, are they sleep things? Taking it over from Duke. Taking it over from Lee Ely Moke. And look at that succession. Okay, okay. Ah, now I know. That's a perfect example. Look at that trajectory. Lee Ely Moke. No, no. Donald Duke, Lee Ely Moke, and none and none. Yes, somebody stepped out of line now. But look at the progress that was done, that was achieved when that consistency, when that track trajectory was complied with. I need to get that done in my state. Yes. I need fewer people asking me for sustenance. Yes. I need fewer people running the streets with Okada. I need fewer people wondering where the next mill is coming from. That's an unnecessary mint of transportation. You can't rule a house, can you? What did you say? You're saying Okada is no longer a mint of transportation? Ah, I see how. But let's move on to... I'm not just reset. Let's move on to other issues. Let's talk about the party again quickly. There are rumours that the governor might have someone who's going to succeed him, their allegations. It would appear so. Some are saying that his SSG might be the one who would be imposed on the party, and your candidate at some point with other candidates have spoken up about it, saying that the party members should resist this. Why would there be such speculations? Why would the governor want to anoint a person? I mean, is that how he came to be? You know, you know... Yoruba's are saying the witch cried last night, and the child died today. There's an interesting link between the witch, the cry of the witch overnight, and the child that died today. That's when the myth used to be that witches used to kill people. Right? I'm not sure they're interested in killing anybody anymore. They're getting busy with something else. Again, this guy that's been touted as the governor's preferred candidate, maybe, aspirant, is my very good friend. We've come way back 35 years. So I told him, I made him a promise, Beaudu, I am never going to attack your person until you attack me. You know, and Beaudu also has the record of who I am, and I say that very modestly. Listen, I have seen all of this party, the movement of this party, the evolutionary trend of this party, from AC to ACN, and then eventually to APC. I have seen it all. And so I'm in a position to know that this is what we did wrong at this time, this is what we did right, and this is what we can build upon. And that's why I am comfortable in my skin, and I can see people, and I hope the delegates also know that. But talking about Beaudu, Beaudu is a fine gentleman. I like him. He's my friend. Unfortunately, I call him Abbey City, and he calls me away. We're close, but I hope that this doesn't, and I hope that, because I explained to him, listen, it's going to be very difficult for you to function. There's no doubt about it. And I say that today. Why do you think so? Because the forces that's going to bring, that's attempting to bring Beaudu into this race, they are so overbearing. Yes, these forces, and there's nobody that would deny that. And I'm waiting for people to engage me on this fact. Is campaign office today, all of a sudden, had become the campaign, I mean, used to be the citation office of the governor. Do you understand what I'm saying? Where the governor operated from as an aspirant, and then has been given to him. The governor has the right, absolute right to field anybody, but it would make a lot of sense to let the system produce the next leadership. You know why? We would get past this point, but our copy of science will be waiting for us in front, which is the general election. Well, and of course we're waiting on the party primaries to see who emerges at the end of the day, but in the meantime, I want to say thank you to you for being part of this conversation. Always a pleasure. Thank you very much. I mean, this is the first time I'm coming to your studio and I think it's a nice place. Yes. And I appreciate the fact that you give us an opportunity to speak. All right. I hope to be back here. All right. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a short break now. When we return, we'll discuss the illegal oil mining activities plaguing River State. And of course, the suit. Stay with us. We'll be right back.