 Bingo, we do global connections every Thursday at one o'clock and today we're modifying that to global historical connections Okay, with our favorite history professor at John David and of HPU and we're talking about Jay. Yes Thomas Jefferson Esquire. Pardon me president of the United States president of the United States It may look like John David and but in fact today, especially for this show until by the garb. He is Thomas Jefferson president of the United States indeed. It's very important that we understand Thomas Jefferson because that helps us understand Oh, lots of stuff that happened since and maybe even happening now indeed indeed So what was life like good day, sir You want if I quote you Thomas or would you like me to quote you mr. President mr. President or Colonel Colonel or Esquire Yes, Esquire would work as well. Yeah, you know you're very creative guy you did what was it Mount Mount Vernon there in Virginia Monticello, Monticello. Yeah, and It's um, you know, you left an enormous imprint on the beginnings of the country When when you know things like that cast a long shadow a 200 year shadow What kind of a person are you mr. President? Well indeed. I love to read. I love to drink good wine My book collection is It's one of the best in the world But also I like to run my plantation. Yeah with slaves. I was I was sir indeed slaves. Yes slaves Yes, of course slaves. Yes. Ah the issue Always the issue of slaves. I hear now you don't have slaves Not anymore. Ah Yes, probably a good move. I was in favor of it myself Although I have to admit I never did free my slaves not even in my will I thought about it But I did free a few select slaves the Hemings the Hemings were Really unusual for the the duskier race the the African race. They were so smart and competent and Skillful they made me a small fortune on my plantation Indeed and very attractive as well. Where would a slave go in say the year 1800 if you freed a slave in 1800 would he stay in Virginia? Would he go north? What would happen? Well, I should have hoped that a slave would stay on my plantation and work for wages Although I'm not sure I could have Made a profit at that the slaves gained me about four percent per annum And that four percent would have gone away if I had to pay them now. I did pay slaves a tiny bit In any event as no and again once in a while Yes, I rewarded my boys who made nails in my nail shop because it was indeed very profitable for a small time And of course my butler received a Christmas present from me every Christmas And of course Sally Hemings the beautiful Sally Hemings received all kinds of gifts from me So you were drenching gentry you were kind of like an aristocrat in those days. You were wealthy landed But not a European aristocrat. What's the difference natural natural? What's a natural aristocrat and a aristocracy of merit? gained by by hard work by intellect by Superior breeding but not European breeding a very important distinction my oh my the European aristocracy I hear it's gone completely gone. Yeah decadent decaying of Full of corruption won't last a natural aristocracy on the other hand can last forever Because it's based upon the wisdom of the ages So what's your family background as the president? Well indeed I was born into wealth. It's no secret And I was raised I was it well educated in the classics. Yes That's true as well. I was trained as a lawyer Where's your school? I went to William and Mary as a young man Of course it an excellent university. I hear that the university is still there a heart of Virginia And in fact, I founded a university myself the University of Virginia endowed them with books Sold my collection to the Library of Congress to reconstitute it in 1814 after the after the the British army destroyed it in the war of 18 so you had interests in many things You know in coming up and getting trained. It was not it was not only in the classics It was in science such as science existed at the time indeed you and dr. Franklin had something in common indeed Yes, we I was an experimenter myself I had a writing machine at my desk which would automatically give copies when I wrote one copy It would make a second copy very clever invention. I had Hydraulically opening doors at Monticello, so very interested in science interested in agronomy Interested in in the races the different races. I have very wide interest philanthropy philosophy Those my interests have been very wide indeed now did you you come up through? association with George Washington What was your connection with him? No, I did not I was I was kind of a self-made man that way I came up through the Virginia Legislature Assembly And then during the war of revolution. I was picked I was chosen to write the Declaration of Independence This made you a famous person well indeed I think the ideas were there and I think they're very important to us even today If we are a nation we should be a nation of the Declaration of Independence Well, that there was those who are your ideas I take it that you had those ideas and you were in a position where you could express them in that document indeed indeed I I had some experience with with Enlightenment philosophy and and I believed in the liberty of the individual as the the the Basic building block of the American all manner created exactly exactly. Yes, indeed in so now between the revolution and the writing of the Declaration of Independence What happened to you and how did you wind up running for president in? Right, so I was I was chosen to be minister for France in the 17 late 1780s And then I was the first Secretary of State under George Washington Although Washington Associated himself with lower characters a man named Hamilton Alexander Hamilton. You might know him Scoundrel that he was Philander or liar Indeed. Oh, he brings out the the vile in me as well. He's well known on Broadway these days So Hamilton and I disagreed we disagreed about the basic character of the American government Hamilton wanted a big government a big military a strong president He argued that the president should serve for life in the constitutional like a monarch. Yes Although his ideas were overthrown to thank goodness for that I favored the Bill of Rights. I favored limited government of weaker central government more rights to the states and Individual rights. I argued for this in my law Practice I argued for this in a Declaration of Independence and then I argued against Hamilton That we should not build ourselves a tyranny Which indeed will eventually corrupt us beyond help So you were an important architect of the whole system and the Constitution you were central figure in bringing in these ideas I write it. Don't be modest now. Well, oh I wouldn't be modest sir These are my accomplishments. Although I was in France during the Constitutional Convention. I encouraged Madison and others to think very seriously about a Bill of Rights. This to my mind was the essential missing feature to the original Constitution therefore We in Virginia pushed very hard for the passage of the Bill of Rights in 1790 and it became an essential part of the Constitution and indeed apparently it it perseveres even to today. Oh It has become very important mr. President. Oh, yes indeed. So 1790 to say 1800. What did you do with yourself? Well, I was governor of Virginia for a time and I did some writing and I was a gentleman farmer. Mm-hmm. Were you popular in the public eye? Well, it depends on which public eye you're referring to of course the Federalist hated me But the Jeffersonians named after I might say the Democratic Jeffersonians Loved me and there were more of them Well, it was a very tight election. So in the election of 1800 I decided to put my name in and John Adams who had been the president of was running for reelection and It was a very close hard fought election. Adams only had had one term up to that point. That's correct And as to the accusation that I called Adams a hideous Amaprodite, I did not there was a newspaper man named James Callender Who wrote this of of Adams? I was sorry for it as to the accusation that I hired James Callender to do this Well, if it were true Then surely I would not have approved of such language But I will say that I myself was attacked this same scurrilous Journalist accused me of fathering five children with a slave Sally Hemmings Now if that were true, I should say that those slaves deserve to be freed and I did indeed Upon my death Sounded like one vicious campaign It was a very nasty campaign which ended up in the House of Representatives Oh, is that right arch enemy Hamilton? Yeah supported me and I found myself elected president Wow indeed It was quite an exciting those were the heady times because the country really hadn't come to come to terms with its new Government it was still very early in the United development of the United States was a small peripheral place in the world Yes, the European powers threatened us here and there Hamilton and and Adams favored England in the war the Napoleonic Wars I favored France Napoleon was a friend a protector of liberty a builder of civil rights and civil institutions I aimed in my presidency to strengthen the hand of the American government Therefore we bought the Louisiana Purchase We defeated the Barbary Pirates with our new Navy and I must say I thank John Adams for that Navy because it was indeed His initiative even though I opposed it at first as president. I became Shall we say more in love with central government and the powers of the presidency did you advance them and expand them? Not in that kind of way, but indeed with the the executive power of commander-in-chief I sent the fleet to the Mediterranean. I'll take credit for that Yeah, yes in those days when you send the fleet Do you have to have congressional approval or can you just do it as commander-in-chief? I did it as commander-in-chief So this you know that was a very formative period you served eight years indeed from 1800 or 1801 to 1818 1809 1809 How would you say the country changed? You know You know in terms of on the way to manifest destiny Coming together of the 13 colonies the expansion looking west. What happened? Well, the Louisiana Purchase allowed us to move west to settle west at that cheap thing I it was an inexpensive purchase. That's correct And it has served the country for centuries afterwards. I negotiated treaties with the native chiefs they called me the great father and I found it to be so and We we expanded our holdings in the southern states as well into the Louisiana Purchase But the the strengths of the nation were offset by this new conflict Which came about towards the end of my life over slavery slavery in the new territories I had bought the Louisiana Purchase with the set idea that slaves could certainly be in the southern parts of this Louisiana Purchase but never in the north but Innovators suggested now that we should have slaves in the north as well Well, and the Louisiana Purchase didn't go that far north did it it went fairly far north. Yes, it did actually covering current states of what? into into Into North Dakota and oh, yes, South Dakota. Yes all the way to Canadian border. Yes, it was it was the first great acquisition Going west sizable This was going to define that's correct where slavery would go correct and the ultimate decision was On slavery. Well, I hear that there was a war a civil war and that those who opposed slavery once said war Yeah, therefore. I think it's a good thing. It enhances our liberty to not have slaves. Yes. Yes It it makes us closer to the document that I wrote the Declaration of Independence So in that period when you were president 1801 to 1809 Were you able to advance the Bill of Rights? We are able to get people to come to your way of thinking on a popular basis. Well We mostly got rid of the alien and sedition acts which I thought violated the the bill of rights These were the acts which allowed the president to jail anyone who criticized the federal government Sedition yes, I got rid of most of them. I kept one because of the conflicts in Europe I decided that if a person from a hostile nation came and made bad intentions toward the United States Then we had we should have the right to jail them but a local person of Somebody coming from another nation from a hostile but somebody who was not alone not coming from a foreign nation Well, it could be if that person was an agent of a hostile okay in which in fact we had those were difficult times Yeah, right and these are these are interesting times I would say and when we come back from this break, Mr. President Thomas Jefferson looks just like John David and of you I've never heard of the man, but he must be quite a historian. We're gonna have president Jefferson Discuss how he would feel what he would think of what's going on today. Who would be right back after this break I bet you can't wait Aloha My name is Carl Kompanya. I am the host of think tech Hawaii's movers shakers and reformers. I Hope you join us as we take a deep dive into biofuels in Hawaii over the coming weeks and the alternative fuel supply chains necessary for the local and global transition Towards transportation fuel sustainability We are going to invite in and we will have significant interviews with various stakeholders including our producers, which are our farmers and our scientists our Conversion technologies including Taraviva. We'll see in two weeks as Well as our consumers within there. We're also going to have the investor groups necessary to make sure that this Can't advance so I do hope you join us as we explore Our deep dive into biofuels in Hawaii We're back. We're alive and we're not kidding This is global historical connections With John David and who looks a lot like Thomas Jefferson today. I like your outfit President president Thomas Jefferson. Let's be thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry back full about it. It's so kind Yes, you must you must call me So at the moment, you know, you left office. Well, how long did you live after? 1809 I lived until 1826 And the same day as John Adams death interesting we died hours apart and we reconciled as friends I no longer considered him a hermaphrodite and And and we reconciled we wrote matters to one another very nice So so there you you left this long shadow on the United States What what this is a hard question for only a half an hour discussion But what effect did that shadow have as we go forward say from 1826 to 2016 yeah, so In today's world. I think we have the way I see it We have two choices. We have the Hamiltonian choice of bigger government and stronger government larger military I Hear that the United States has quite a role in the world these days Oh, yeah, the superpower is the term that I've heard I read widely all of the newspapers and So if the United States is a superpower then it's a Hamiltonian superpower and that's scurrilous figure as Endangered the Republic by exposing us to all of these Corrupting and defining and defaming influences from the outside world We should we should just focus on our own selves We have always been our best when we have been a Republic. Yes, not some sort of an Empire Yes, or if we are to be an Empire as I told my native Friends at one point in a presidential speech so long ago We are to be an Empire of Liberty not an Empire of doom or an Empire of of hegemony an Empire of Liberty Well in the Jeffersonian world and you know as carried forward I think probably you would agree that it has changed indeed. What are the duties of the citizen? What do you expect a citizen to do? What is the relationship of the citizen in the government? Whether it's a big government or a little government indeed So the citizen is so important to our Republic The the citizen farmer in my time was the key to Understanding the Jeffersonian Republic because the farmer could exercise an independence that no other person in the Republic could The farmer was neither dependent for his wages upon a wealthy Merchant or industrialist the farmer could grow his own food And so the farmer was the ultimate independent person Therefore that is what we seek in our citizens to be independent and of strong character a term that I would call Having public courage the courage of one's convictions I believe that I had a small bit of this when I was Active in politics in those days Not everybody could vote Was there something about this is during your administration indeed, but you had to be a landowner to vote Yes, I hear now that they've expanded the franchise to females. Yes. It's a good idea. True fact Ponder this maybe I should change my mind but yes, of course in our time only wealthy landowners could vote and And I think the reason for this my find sir is that Wealthy landholders had the time to reflect to think to read to study Classics to understand and therefore should be granted that hallowed right of the running of the Republic now today You have something that maybe is a mobocracy of a more dangerous sort of Republic where Everybody gets a vote some people do not read do not understand deed indeed, but To counter that we put in place what we call the electoral system I could talk about that and the electoral system was designed so that men of conscience men like myself who are well Educated and from the natural aristocracy can make that final decision So that the states can indicate their preference through the legislature and later on through the individual vote But the electors make the final decision and they make a weighty decision indeed And they must follow their conscience not any vote or any mob So it's a balance. It's a it's another a check in balance. It's supposed to be Yeah, it's supposed to be but it's supposed to be if I if I told you that the popular vote was greater than the electoral college vote For a given candidate in this election in this recent election in the night at the 20 you know Would you say this was consistent with Jeffersonian democracy or would you say that something had gone off the track? Well as a rule I do not like mobs. I do not like democracy actually as a rule But in this case it seems that the electoral system is broken Because the fine men and I guess women who were serving as electors did not vote their conscience But simply voted for whomever the candidate was who received more votes in that particular state This is an abominable situation and and really augurs the decline of our democracy Jay yes, well, you know you talked about the the the vicious campaign You know the sort of the the the street fight campaign of the year 1800 indeed We've had a few since since you died as a president And this this recent election was pretty much a street fight too in the same way or worse And I and I wonder knowing all that we know Collectively about what happened in this this current campaign what your thoughts are about You know the future of our democracy The sanctity of our Constitution and the Bill of Rights Indeed I it is my sincere hope That Liberty prevails in within this Republic in this this great Republic that I helped to create Indeed, I hope that Liberty prevails the enemies of Liberty seem to have grown in their strength their ability to manipulate the masses and To appoint themselves through this to high positions This to me is most dangerous to the Republic and Therefore, I think that we should look back at the Constitution and look back at the protections of the Constitution and treat those protections in the Bill of Rights as Sacred as a sacred part of our commitment our covenant to the nation Let's assume that we're in trouble on this and we need to fix it in some way and you you and others You know created this Incredible document never seen before in the world that is self self-fixing It's a self-correcting document the Constitution the Constitution It's flexible and it allows for people to make changes as necessary This part of it with the changing history around us this part of I didn't really approve of but The ability to amend it could be to corrupt it and distrust of course But I hear that they freed the slaves to the Constitution They gave women the right to vote through the Constitution So it's an innovative Constitution which concerns me in a way But as long as we understand the protections therein and apparently the 14th amendment is a very good amendment Which protects the rights of individuals? This I fully support Since so here's the here's the thought though Assuming that things have gone off the track or things are jeopardized in some way under this precious and incredibly important document Historically and for the country What what would you say? Mr. President? What what steps should be taken in order to repair it to? conform it to to go back to those basic principles that are you know in the declaration of independence and And underlie the Constitution. How do we do that now? What's your advice? Mr. President? Are you suggesting that we are in the influence of a tyranny? Let's put that out as a possibility if that were the case then of course a tyrannical leader must be removed and We have provision for that in the Constitution through the Articles of Impeachment But tyrannies are very dangerous and they will destroy the Republic if not taken care of completely And they need not come just from a civilian leader. They can come from a military. That's too powerful Religion that's too powerful a bank. That's too powerful In the Declaration of Independence I wrote not just about Liberty, but I condemned the Bank of England I condemned the Monarch of England and I condemned the Church of England all of those were tyrannous tyrannous in our time and again the Corrupting influence of money could again be upon us in this Republic and destroy us I here tell that the new the new president-elect has appointed billionaire upon billionaire to his cabinet This to me could represent a corruption What do they say? Bigots Bullies and billionaires can we afford to have them in our cabinet? It sounds dangerous to me Yeah, it sounds like the beginning of a tyranny, but but we these these officers mostly serve at the approval of the Congress The Congress should be able to say no Well, we depend on the Congress to do the right thing And you know there's a question in recent years as to whether it does do the right thing for the right reasons So again that that may need fixing. Okay, and then we have a Supreme Court where the Congress Will not approve newly Appointed members of the Supreme Court appointed by the president Is that what you had intended that the Congress would simply refuse to consider? Any candidate to the Supreme Court? Well, this has happened many times in our history or so I have read that the Supreme Court has not been at full capacity The Congress is one of the the areas of government the three divisions of government the Supreme Court the Congress and the executive branch And so we designed the the system so that these branches would have a check upon one another If the Congress does not have a check then the Supreme Court must exercise that checking power The our system will last as long as those checks are in place Yes, but if if if Congress no longer represents a check upon the power of the executive branch Then that is indeed great of great concern. Yes, oh gee whiz Sounds like you wouldn't be entirely happy with what's going on these days And if I tell you that the that this expanded electorate with all these people voting many more You know groups of people many more people Voting are only voting in small percentages, you know forty percent, maybe or depending on where you are in the country What about that this goes back to the question of whether the citizen has an obligation to support the government by Voting paying taxes whatever else what can we do mr. President your advice, please In fact, can you turn to camera one and give the people your advice about performing their obligations as citizens under Jeffersonian democracy indeed we must have courage in this time This is the most important thing is that we exercise public courage in favor of the Republic not in favor of our own interests Not in favor of some petty project Not in favor of some lover or some some person who's beneath you We must exercise independence and public courage in this time For the government for the common good for the nation Indeed institution has written for the declaration and the rights of you of human beings Thank You mr. President. I must say in closing that you look so much like John David and it's really I must meet this It's awesome. Yeah, he sounds like a very great individual. He is indeed Thank You mr. President indeed Aloha all the best