 What's up everyone I almost did the show on the other account because it's back up for life eats But I figured I already told everyone we'd be doing it here. So fuck it, right? The last time you'll be seeing this background. We're getting ready. I mean we've been moving but Finally moving the last of the stuff probably this weekend So it'll be a whole new background whole new everything no more ugly fucking checker wall, which is awesome Yeah, so what's up everyone? Yes, I play this guitar sometimes. This is one that has Special pickups and it's uh, what do they call them? See more dunking P-rails I think yeah, it's a brooder the cramp everyone we will be joined by CSI and Not so dogging a few not so it's been a little under the weather So I'm gonna try to hold it down for him this week He's got the chest aids. So yeah You'll miss the skull wall. Yeah ugly-ass wall though What my choice? But next one will be So we'll see how it goes sweet fuck work Sub Rob Oh, yeah, I got my curly shirt on The man the myth the legend No, I actually really suck at guitar to be honest with you I can play punk rock and old reggae tunes and some northern souls and that's about it How much is rent out here? The place I'm leaving was 3,000 a month. Don't worry. I'm going Slightly less because we bought so it's 2,300 roughly a little bit more, but not much It's a lot smaller in this place as far as the house, but the property is big. So I'm stoked on that Tonight we will be covering. Oh, what were you smoking expells tonight? We will be covering the forum era post 2006 which really was I mean I chose that because that's when I come in so mostly the tail end of overgrow Cannabis world a little bit. I don't remember when planet ganja dipped out Some grass city troll it up Pop-pimp trichome kings the farder Stuff like that. There's a seat depot stuff that I see Magikorps There's a big point to it too And it's that a lot of people like that weren't around during the forums It's really easy to tell who they are and the ones that pretend like they were It's also really easy to tell that they were because or that they weren't because they only reference The ones that are still up and only quote the forums that are still up, which is a very very I Can't I can't mention that one sub Rob since it's private. I don't want to mention it Try to follow rules on that one, but um Yeah, I mean if people try to post stuff all the time But you're only seeing a brief glimpse of what happened back then some of the most salacious fucking horrible shit Went down on on sites like seed depot where a lot of people started popping up a lot of people that are selling seeds Start popping up on seed depot and I'm sure they are super stoked that you can't find that shit But we do have the way back machine and I actually haven't tested that for seed depot. So we'll see Yeah, ganja planet ganja was on way back machine as well, but Only certain Threads were it was really hard to find any consistency and why certain things were or not. Oh here we go. It was not so See, I wonder if I can still bring in Caleb once I bring in the best We've got a teacher now to do that. Let's see how long request to join But how do I add in people? Well, sorry invite to join. Okay. That's all I do. All right. What's up, dude? I exist No, you look like you're not dead yet. I'm definitely not dead. Good deal So Yeah, what's up with the third party? Waiting for him wait waiting for him for a few minutes. I just talked to him. It'll be on Fantastic. Yeah, so I was just telling everyone we're gonna be going over the forum era post overgrow so 2006 roughly and on and I was explaining how there are a lot of a forum still up that were around during that time like the farm IC mad Troll it up some of the some of the others that came around that time But there are a lot that are not up and people that like to pretend that they were around back then Often referenced ones that are still up that they can go back and like reread and pretend like hey I was I was there I know what's going on, but they're missing like 90% of the conversations that were going on because those aren't even accessible any longer one of the one of the things I notice about that era is that You know a lot of times we catch people on stuff Because people go back to bullshit. Yes, and they read You know threads and things like that to pick up years and tidbits and information that like make their their stories sound better Yeah, but they weren't there to know Who was who or like who to take seriously or what was misinformation even then? Yeah, you know and so a lot of times it's a tell You know it is a big tell it's a big tell But to someone that never read any of those forums you can come out and confidently Start jabbing about a bunch of stuff. Yeah and sound like you were there. Yeah Not I'm not gonna say anybody's name But someone made a post the other day that obviously was not around on the forums and said, you know X-person got cloned from Y person got cloned from Z person and it was just super off like the most Off it could be I mean we I'm that's learning from me I try we try not to name names when it's not but it was pretty funny the chain of custody Yeah, that was asserted You know you just had you just had to laugh at a certain point, but yeah, I will say even back then like You know, I don't know exactly know how to describe it But I would say that like like overgrow even had some of the best commentary But also some of the worst Like you kind of the forums really helped figuring out what you were doing if you already went in there with some Connection and some ability to discern. Yeah, you know cannabis world was a little bit more like where the adults gathered Yeah Over a girl you could have like Everyone from like some 17 year old kid shit posting you even though we didn't use that term back then. Yeah To like Camara and Sam skunk man and PhDs and breeding talking shit in another in another area Yeah, so it really was like a cross-section of weed in America My main my main thing would be like I would compare that to like grass city from my era grass city and Roll it up. We always call it a troll it up But those two were like what everybody would say like that's where everybody everybody had an account on those pretty much because that's where everybody started at during that era and then Slowly you'd see people migrate But then those the ones that hung out in that area area Kind of never really seemed to go anywhere as far as their knowledge or making any headway with anything really that's how I saw it Yeah, I mean and you know it should be said too that like, you know, there was different different forums had different I don't know different ethics. Maybe it's the best way to put it. Yeah, you know Some some were more lightly moderated and things got left up Um, you know, obviously like hate speech and various other aspects was was eliminated You know or but a lot of times You know unlike ig or whatever You know if you didn't like the threads got let they might get locked if arguments got too heated But they would typically be left. Yeah, we're in today's environment on ig a lot of times people just get rid of it Yeah, oh, yeah It's all it's all what do you call that curated? It's all curated as soon as it starts going off the rails or as soon as they start seeing information They don't want out there. Yeah, um, they'll just delete comments or they'll delete the whole thread or they'll turn off comments Right away Um, you know, and then, you know, ic mag, you know, there was you know, there was an in crowd and an out crowd Mm-hmm. You know, definitely. I was the out crowd. I I think I had a record For being the person most banned from every forum And it I think I mean I even had my own forums back in the day that people rocked on, you know It got bad. I mean it was interesting in the sense that like in the beginning in overgrown cannabis world and stuff I was super excited and I got on there to share information with a bunch of people Um, and then you know, but I was always nervous about doing any kind Like, you know, I lived in Mendo or whatever. So I didn't really need to like meet new weed people Yeah, but I liked learning what other people far away knew Yeah, but a lot of people used it in the DMs to trade clones and do all this type of stuff I never really did that. I was more like an in-person kind of kind of guy Yeah, um, and then when obviously when heaven stairway got in trouble and they shut all that down Yeah, I got scared So, um, you know, this era that we're going to talk about like 2006 on it really is csi and mats Era yeah, it really is where you know, I might have been lurking a little bit and poking around here and there Um, and even some other friends of ours that aren't going to join like uh, our buddy high and lonesome Oh, yeah, you know, there there was some people that were they were extremely active in that era And know a lot of the who you know, who is who is a jackass who who was kind? Uh, who was a problem back then? You know where stuff came from And one of the interesting things about weed is that it reinvents itself every five or 10 years Yeah So you get all these new people coming in and people get to rebrand themselves Yeah, now it's happening every six months. It seems. Yeah. Well, it's modern fast turnover. Yeah, modern marketing Martin, I mentioned that I mentioned this before but it was kind of like what the What the old dead heads told me about how dead tour used to be before The Grateful Dead had touch of gray a big hit Where it was small Everybody knew kind of got vetted in You know things didn't change that much And then um, you know Oh my god, big ups to danimal. Okay, so then and then and then there was a top day at a top 10 hit And literally hundreds of thousands of new people showed up Yeah, and how do you assimilate them into your community that fast? Yeah, you can't really yeah You know it becomes difficult. So a lot of times like old timers or whatever they feel overwhelmed Because like the norms of their community and what they could expect, you know And instead of being like a respected elder Somebody's like who the fuck is this guy? Yeah, why do I have to listen to you? Yeah, you know where before when it was smaller like those people might have had respect Yeah, yeah, it's a much it did get very different and I want to say It wasn't quite at cookies where everything took a big swing But it wasn't much long after cookies came around that that the forum the whole idea forums kind of changed But I think that also had to do with instagram, which is also why cookies kind of even got even more blown up. I think uh social media Yeah The kind of the difference between the I would say the forums were mostly writing with some pictures Where instagram flipped it 180 degrees to being almost all pictures with a little bit of writing Yeah, so you see some of these old write-ups that people have and their paragraphs and you know, they're like a small essay Yeah Right where people ask me stuff all the time on ig and it's really hard because it's like what are you going to write a novel in the comments Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like you're trying to write something that's like this long like what can I it's like a haiku Yes, how can I get my my my thing across and like X amount of syllables or four sentences? Yeah, yeah, you kind of have to especially here on twitter Right and then and then you end up and then you end up leaving out a lot of nuance and detail Where on the forum era people could like write three or four paragraphs each back and forth And some like hempy could write really really just Bad really bad Unillegible stuff for paragraphs and paragraphs. I mean when you write paragraphs You really realize why we invented punctuation. Yeah for sure You know why we invented paragraphs in the first place spacing Periods commas all the various aspects. It really helps because you know one one of the things that hurts you online is that Um nuance gets lost. Yeah, it does. Are you being sarcastic? Yeah, are you being funny? What's your body language? You know all those types of things You know, um, yeah, that that was actually a good point. Um, you know in the overgo era digital cameras Um, you know didn't exist. Yeah I mean I was talking I was actually talking about that in the In the one that you missed because you were you know, you were otherwise occupied where it was like People documenting their stuff really advanced a lot more when digital cameras came out. Oh, yeah, and then exponentially once Phones had cameras. Yeah, what's phones had cameras is all bets off the era where you had to get your own stuff developed That's unsadly. It's not. Oh, yeah, I imagine it's not very documented I mean, I was it I was at csi's house. I don't know half a year ago or something like that We were looking through a couple of boxes of his um, uh, polaroids Right. Yeah, but they fade Yeah, that that sucks. They fade, you know, and maybe if he would have kept them in some kind of like Perfectly sealed environment with the right humidity or something like that, you know But yeah, you're looking at polaroids from 95 or six or seven or whatever And a lot of them the colors are bleeding into each other and it's hard to make it's not It's not, you know, it's not sharp Yeah You know, yeah, that sucks that sucks bad. I would have never guessed that until he told me that Yeah, I mean, you know, he's got a couple shoeboxes full Yeah, and I was busting his chops to get him fucking scanned. I was like, you got to get those scanned at least for history He's like won't do any good I mean, I, you know, I had my I had my my uh, my first daughter in 09 You know, and I think and I can look back on my phone. I think, you know, the first real camera on an iPhone came out No, eight Oh, wow. Yeah, I don't remember. Yeah, late late. Oh wait You know and and that's kind of that that was a revolution in itself Oh, I'm sure because then you can just pull it out of your pocket and be like there's my weed plant click It's always amazing that with all these cell phones, we don't really see many like real documented ufo picks I know i'm it's kind of off tangent, but I just thought about that Well, I will say As a as a, you know, somebody who's pulled a lot of tarps in their day That you know a lot of times when you pull tarp on you you're doing light depth You're you're pulling tarp at six or seven o'clock at night Right. Yeah, and then you go back out there after dark, which in june might be 9 30 or 10 o'clock at night Right to pull the tarp off so everything can breathe because you only want to darken it for as much as you need to Right. Oh, yeah, and you don't want to trap in all that moisture and all that right So you got to go out there and you know Mendo or whatever in the woods And sometimes I would see the most beautiful skies the most beautiful moons Just yeah, and your phone could not show you what my eyes could see Oh, yeah, for sure. I would take I would take, you know pictures And you know and it would just never and I'd go online and look how do I take better night photos? Yeah, and it's just not a camera with like a nice lens and you know the ability it's like You know it's just not it's just meant to show dicks and tits That's all you're supposed to be taking pictures of fellows ladies, you know and and so you know There's there's an aspect to that where it's like I can bet like if you can't see Like nobody can imagine how beautiful this full moon is tonight. Yeah, and you can't capture that well How are you going to capture like I'm sure there's like this is there's a weird thing in the sky It's yeah, no You know especially back in 08 or 09 how am I going to pull out my two or two and a half megapixel camera? Yeah on my phone Yeah, I'm going to like capture it No You know it took a long time for phones to even begin to catch up to like what 35 millimeter could do You're busting my skeptical comet not so You know crushing my skepticism I fully believe that there are aliens I just disbelieve most people that tell try to tell me a bunch of facts about them. Yeah, yeah That's I'm sure there are I just don't know if they've ever been near earth You know like I I have I that that's where my skepticism comes in when people start writing Getting like very long youtube's about all kinds of specifics, you know I get weird Yeah, yeah, I mean I'll say this, you know and then kelo and then he's officially fucking late. Yeah, but You know when we were talking about the the early the early 2000s or whatever I you know, I did that whole episode when you weren't here Yeah, I was hunting so hard for old stuff then stuff from the 80s stuff from the 70s Hell even stuff from some of the 90s. Yeah, and it was a royal bitch And then nobody cared about it and I and I searched for years and years and years And you know like we have a pretty good network of friends. Yeah, you know and it was really hard And now within the last five years as ancient stuff has become popular And I'm not please don't take this the wrong way if anybody's holding anything But I've never seen so much like 79 blueberry 72, you know, brotherhood of eternal love acapoco gold, you know 74 Hocken, you know this that like all these 70s and 80s strain all the famous strains of your Yeah Hey, it's not dark. It's just blurry. What'd you do? He's got he's in that humble fog You smudge your camera on purpose He blew a lot on the camera But wait the sun's going down. So, you know You mother fucker. Good to see you dude. Thanks for showing up. Right, right So, yeah, we were just talking about The different, you know, what was kind of going around post 2006 It was the end of the overgrow era end of the cannabis world era and maybe maybe You could talk about some of the things that you saw during those those That integral period between the end of overgrow and the beginning of things like the farm What kind of what kind of strains were people fucking with around then? What was the hot shit? Uh, are you are you talking about like 06 on? 06 to like 06 to 08 somewhere in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's when chem dog really started become unpopular Yeah Chem D came out. I think I honestly think that that's the year You know mass g uh posted up on ic mag although that's right. That thread is gone Oh, is that thread gone? I did my research. I think it's gone. Is that the the creation of sour? Do you want? No, no, no, that's so that was the overgrow. That was okay So, yeah, that that's well long gone unless somebody has a archives Yeah, who would have that shit? Oh So do you remember like around overgrow? What kind of the strains? What kind of strains were mostly popular around that time like in the in that end of overgrow era? Amster dam strains Dutch yet. Yeah Canadian stuff Yeah, bc stuff. Yeah, it was kind of it was kind of like a lot of the stuff that Um, was that some of those ron parties? Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. We're we're actually where we're kaleb and I first met You know, it was a lot of white widow and blueberry and um A lot of the work coming out of switzerland Was big then so like the sweet tooth the blockhead the louis Genius Yeah, you know And c99 were around back then for sure genius c99, you know, I forget is genius apollo, but you know the apollo 11 and 13 hybrids of all that stuff and it was it was pre pre reversals You guys hadn't really started your revolution yet. So Uh, it was all males well, uh We we were borderline starting it. That's yeah, I was just kicking off I mean hybe was hybe was selling his ex c way back in like, I don't know what o2 maybe even earlier Yeah on a cannabis world And uh, I did my first, you know Real reversal in o6 intentional reversal I I I did that one reversal where you know, I took a bunch of pollen from that urkel back in like 304 and Yeah, yeah, that was oh 304 um and uh Pollinated a bunch of stuff On purpose. Yeah But that that was just that freak thing. So yeah counts kind of It can't it kind of counts. It counts. It does count It was with intention Yeah, yeah, I mean they're they're they're I did have some friends that I mean we didn't use I didn't we didn't know anything about any of the any of the kems. You could spray on plants But people used to try to torture their plants To get them to free if it was if you knew it could herb Sometimes you could put it into too small of a pot. You could let it get dry You could beat it up a bit you could try to collect see if it could throw some That was like the that was like our our way of You know, right? Can you beat it up enough to get some pollen off it? Remember a soma's soma's way you just flower him out for like 80 or 90 days and get a couple bananas Yeah, wrote Rotalization. Yeah I don't know where you got that term from for it, but yeah, I remember Yeah Yeah, he's a special guy Actually, I did like when his book came out or whatever I do like the soma beds I don't know that They were interesting. They were interesting. They're just they're just deep indoor beds on wheels Yeah, you know, it's basically what they were You know with with, you know, some drainage in the bottom and some layering You know, maybe they have some rocks and they have some like and then they have a layer of of ground cover or something and then you put soil on top and And they have you ever see Huh, they had the air tubes on them in all four corners where the air came down to the lower roots You would put like big pieces of PVC with holes drilled in and you would put those on the side And those would go all the way in the corners to the bottom Yeah, so that you would actually and that would connect to the gravel at the bottom so that you could bring air Yeah, yeah, it wasn't the worst idea. No And especially trees and especially for well, it's not so much you had to go trees You know, I mean, you know, look at look look at a bunch of you could you could actually grow a bed With you know homie style with 25 or 30 plants if you wanted Yeah, right, right, you know, and then you didn't have to worry about individual ones dying Right, right because you just watered the bed and everything stays alive Oh, yeah, I used to use those no drain beds way back in a 2000 or so No drain beds Just shallow like six. Yeah deep beds, you know Have that worked out I did pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, definitely some interesting stuff That was back in my not so organic days Not so organic Not so organic I mean, I I use I used to know this used to be pretty funny where I used to know a lot of guys in Mendo That were organic like april through august And then come august they're like not or september. They're not quite seeing their buds get as big as they want And then they figure like well, what's one big tub of pink powder going to really do to my organic It's it's basically organic. Yeah. Yeah, just a couple a couple doses of this zero 50 30 It's gonna get me where I need to be And it's gonna make it happy and I've been organic for five months already, you know So it'll all flush out at the end and it's definitely still organic Uh, yeah, that stuff was tough Yeah, bud blaster Three cheers for gromor Bud blaster was the was the the canadian hetty version Yeah, yeah, was it Yeah, it was canadian. It was it was it was uh, it was one of those, you know powdered whatever It was all this it was all the same There was a bunch of people that came out with zero 50 30 and tried to make it seem like their zero 50 30 was special Right monos. So the one thing I'll say about the the bud blaster is that They had uh, they had their own special grinder So their powder was super fine and it actually dissolved Yeah, some of the cheap stuff You get there in like a thousand gallon tank or whatever and you're up on a ladder and you're dumping stuff like that in there And then you get some soft balls at the bottom that you're like wondering how to hit with the stick to break up Because it wouldn't actually dissolve. Yeah, you know So but that's off topic, you know, I suppose we should probably ratchet back around um So we got to convince we got to convince Caleb and matt to talk because this is really their era Yeah, this is 06070809. This is not my online presence Right, so the various characters the various things that were going on the the stuff that was happening It's pretty much this is when these two uh You know, uh, csi used to be known as, uh You know white trash redneck Shhh I mean inspector Inspector indeed You know all those aliases All the aliases, but yeah, you know, but that but that's where I mean You know, uh Archive was doctor or that doctor Right. Yeah. Yep. Yep. You know, it's where a lot of the monocle a lot of the oldest nicknames and monocles People still kind of reference each other like by some of those first names Yeah Don't know nobody's real name Didn't need to and no purpose in it You know, yeah, and unlike ig you didn't you never a lot of these people you never saw Yeah Like chic always asked me like What's his name? I'm like, I don't fucking know where the fuck would I ask him that, you know, that's just weird Yeah, she thinks I'm a freak for not knowing anybody's first names after all these years. I'm like, I don't fucking know I don't am I gonna do his taxes for him, but the fuck then you know that for It was very it was very similar to that on like on dead tour and stuff like that because everybody, you know, everybody had a nickname Yeah Yeah You know everybody had a nickname so um But yeah, I mean, maybe maybe you guys could talk about like, you know, uh Who who who were some of the big I don't want to say the word influencer Maybe but who are some of the people that were sort of like driving the conversations Who are you excited to hear? You know posting on stuff Like and then maybe just like how hard it was to get information back there Because a lot of these forums, you know, you guys were talking about the chem dog You know, there was an aspect where the reason why, you know, somebody like, you know Skunk VA has his name or chem dog 101 or any of these things is because I had some former another on ic mag or whatever It was the first time these things started getting argued about and debated Yeah by people outside and a lot of times What happens too is that these things become references because then you've got This guy comes out and says this thing on ic mag at this year And then three years later on whatever unroll it up. Let's say he's saying this And now on ig he said this and this You know and they always they always want to be like this is the most current story. This is what you should believe Yeah, yeah And in some cases those forums don't exist anymore and they're very fortunate that they don't and you know one of the one of the ways that CSI got his reputation as inspector is he was really good at at using your own words against you Hey, no Well, I just but I just mean in the sense of someone would like confidently say this this this this and this and then He would be like, well, why did you write? In your own words That bastard this right. How do you how do you make these two things come together? I've got a bunch of swerve quotes I can share Oh, yeah You know and and that's a lot of things most people probably don't even know who swerve is but there's been there's been a bunch of people You know that come the you know flash in the pans that come and go Yeah, they come up. They have their moment. They they they spew a bunch of shit. They make a bunch of money All of a sudden their stories start to implode Right. Yeah And you know and in some cases they rebrand themselves And sell it again to the to the new batch Right, right You know um Who I looked up to is going to be a lot different than maybe who Caleb looked up to because when I first started coming in It was way different than when Caleb started coming in, you know So who like who were you looking up to during those years? Who who is who do you think was influencing really well that that had some respect during those years? um I mean, I liked, you know Just just for information, you know Alone, I liked joe brand. I liked, uh, you know chem dog mass g Yeah Uh, you know skunk va Yeah and then on like the the og side of things, you know, I was I always liked, uh You know big ricky, uh, he was old family red back then I actually a lot of people don't even know but Uh, I named my old family purple my first tk hybrid kind of after his old handle old family red You know, oh, I didn't even know that. That's cool. You know, I get the connection Yeah, I gave him a lot of credit. Um You know chrome that was those were the years chrome was starting out with the white, you know Yeah, he actually was growing some of my my hybrids Um, and then he introduced the white when he was growing them. So yeah, that's when that started. Um I I think I was mostly into bubba's og's and chem dogs back then Yeah, but uh What what were your your main main interest though? So when I popped in, you know, like shanty baba Um, was still pretty big and and still had a good name A lot of the stuff I was looking at when I came in was was dutch stuff I really didn't focus a lot on americans at the time because I just didn't I wasn't hit to it, you know, I hadn't right when I came in I wasn't hit to the fact that all those dudes were white labeling and most of the americans were making their Seeds or spanish or actually back then I don't even know who was making them all fuck your seeds, you know, right? But yeah, I mean It was very different. I mean Greenhouse hadn't been totally trashed. It was still kind of under the radar for new people at the time That that they were doing anything, you know Untoward dna was massive during those years Um, they were why I started doing six seeds of pack because their shit was six seeds of pack And they were the ones selling the most I was like, okay I guess that's what you do. You know what I mean? Right Yeah, and then sub cool of course had just started fucking taken off and I was fortunate that I met sunny chiba Very early on so I learned very quickly. Oh, maybe that guy isn't someone I should be looking at for breeding tips, you know Right, right. It took me a while, but I got it. But yeah, that's it was it was a much different take You know, it's interesting then because that's kind of when everybody first came out of the shadows Yeah, and you could walk out of the shadows with any stories you wanted About yourself or the strains or whatever else And a lot of times you were the only person Um, you know from samskunk man on Yeah, you were the only you were the only person telling the story about those strengths Right, right. I mean you remember, huh? The audience was so small finding people who are actually there You know was was very difficult Yeah, it was it was a lot smaller than now I just know you think people that that came later can grasp how small the community was And how slow information was Now it's pretty rapid fire Right, you know and a lot of people connect all the time Um, oh, yeah, somebody said crunch bubble, you know, uh, that guy I mean he that guy used to move massive amounts of what was it blue dot Through third floor in oakland, you know, he had all those warehouses of 600 watt hps's On hydro tables Bumping out a bunch of stuff for third floor But it was you know what what's funny about that guy is that Some of those pictures were like some of the first warehouse scenes that people were willing to like throw up on On on the internet. Yeah Most people were growing in closets or bedrooms or greenhouses or in the woods or wherever And all of a sudden you see a 40 lighter Right and for a lot of people that was the first time Right, it might look rudimentary now Yeah now, but yeah, but even just then and of five or oh six or something like that, you know finding people And I think too that like what most people don't understand maybe Is that a lot of the a lot of the breeders like that got famous later Like a couple people on this show or whatever like almost all the breeders Were european or american or canadian. Yeah, right and the people that were working Breeding in america were generally doing it through friendship circles There was a lot of trading and via dm amongst friends and amongst contemporaries It wasn't like like on you know, at least from what I remember It wasn't like oh, I've got a big drop coming next friday Here's the fifth. Here's the 15. Here's the names I made up for him. Here's the hybrids. Here's where you can get them Here's how we're gonna sell them all It was like, you know, you trade seeds when you saw people or people were trading selling them via dm or something like that Like but it was different. Um, I remember As far as americans went there was not a lot of americans doing direct sales on websites You would never really see that like it was all done You know dms or like on weird little auction sites that were floating around but other than that There wasn't a really good way to market yourself as an american breeder without mostly giving seeds away to people I mean, did you have that experience? CSI I I didn't get involved in any of I wanted to back in the 06008 era. I looked into it, but Um, you know, I was I was still way way too paranoid to do any of that stuff I I should have done it, you know, like, you know, dna and sub cool and hell even swerve, you know You know, uh, I mean all those guys You know made huge names because there wasn't competition Yeah, there was no competition. You didn't really have to have a whole lot of talent to be very successful Someone just said mr. Soul handled all of sssc in the 80s I Well, you know, so I mean what's interesting about that is that, you know, there's been a lot There's been a lot of talk about american sssc Right. Yeah, and you know matt and myself got to interview, uh, the owner Who was very cool and You know, all that kind of stuff got put to rest Yeah, hard that there wasn't there wasn't any american help No room for maneuver, but it goes but it goes to show how You know in our world you can kind of step out of the shadows and be like, oh, I mean, there was a lot of people Uh that You know, they came out of the shadows and they were the first time that people were like, you know, oh, I'm I This is my cut Yeah, and then it turns out that they just got the cut early Yeah But they got a few years of like, oh if you want to use my cut You got to give me 50 of the proceeds or the seeds or you got to pay me or you got to this or you got to that It's my work. It's my my my my and then it comes out later that they just got it from these other people early But they were the first one to go public Right, you know, and a lot of times what happened is is that the first person to go public Um, you know got credit Yeah Yeah, you know, um, you know, they got credit and their story was the story for a minute And sometimes other people would get upset and get online and start, you know, I mean, I actually think that's kind of what got Uh, you know, you were talking about uh chem. That's kind of what got chem online Was you know skunk va got online a bit You know and started talking about different things And then people were like, oh my weed's famous. I should talk about it Right and then that got and then that got that got joe brand and and pee bud and other people that hadn't really Met up or like even linked or even realized what was going on after 15 years to connect Right because the story's 707 seed bank, uh, shabbat. He's the one who you know got uh skunk va on to overgrow and ic mag To actually post about that stuff. Otherwise, I think there'd be a completely different chem dog history Oh, yeah, if he hadn't done that You know, do do we remember what the very very first claim of the chem dog seeds not necessarily the first one people remember But the very first claims of chem dog who is the first one to claim that string Was it even greg or were there other people popping up as it was getting popular going? That's mine. I bred that shit I don't remember anybody claiming it Um, lots of people claiming they had the 91 or oh, yeah, yeah for sure There's just like well, I don't know how all these different cuts could be the right one Oh, you know because it's purple. That's how you know when it perps I I saw a few chem dog cuts and they they uh, uh, some of them look like a mass super skunk chem dogs Yeah, but that that just basically means somebody bought some weed That it was was called chem dog and it had some seeds in it and whatever had pollinated that chem dog You know and chem dog is not a bad hermaphrodite just by itself. I mean not sometimes that You know no And so usually if you find seeds in your chem dog, you know, it's been pollinated by something else Yeah There was there was also a thing too that was there was really confusing I think and this isn't anything against greg or chem dog, but you know, it's it's like for people that want specific lineages He was pretty famous for your when you buy weed you're buying chem dog weed From chem dog It didn't really matter exactly what it was It was weed from chem dog And so I think that created confusion too because everyone was like oh, it's this one specific thing You know, um, but it really was chem dog. Yeah, just branding I mean back then branding was branding, you know, it was it was it was early It was an early form of branding. Yeah, for sure You know and people weren't and a lot of these guys were young and nobody knew Especially then when things first started getting famous. I don't think anybody knew that some of these strains were going to be so famously famous So a lot of times they wrote down Various stories or this or that and they didn't really expect it to get Become part of canon or become part of the the fabric of the tail And then they have to look back and defend it You know, um, and you know, it's hard for people sometimes to say, you know, my memory was a little that's what I remembered at the time You know after more after more information came out and I talked to more friends I've kind of revised a little bit because other people had it's hard for people to say that a lot of times People would dig in their heels Yeah, and then you've got two or three or four versions of the story and you're trying to figure out which one works Which one is the most believable? Right, right, you know, what's your favorite wildest story? Um from the forum eras that you knew I mean you that that you knew was kind of like that's too fucking stupid to even be possible Do you have any that stick out where you're like that was a bold fucking claim and really wonky What comes to mind when I say that, uh, okay, so I hate to keep bringing up my voice swerve It doesn't really have all whole lot to do with him But the guy he got pretty much most all of his early og cuts from in like 0607 um, this guy uh had an account on ic mag and Then he made up another account and I think this was an 07 And he made up another account pretending to be his own mentor You know with all the same spelling errors all the same, you know type styles all that and He made a whole thread on it and acted like you know He was the original creator of the og kush blah blah blah and his boy right here his little student You know, he's he's best student I ever had And we're of our boy and we hooked him up. We laced him with all those those cuts we've held since the 80s Oh, he's og. Yeah, that there's still that story on on a icy mat. It's still my god You know, and I'm I'm up in there with a bunch of other clowns just laughing away You know, but that that one right there was it was pretty much the tops for for me back in those days I got one for you. I got one for you Little old lady with asian fantasy Oh, that was a really good one too. I like was a good one Yeah That one was was uh, there was a string called asian fantasy made famous I think I think it's fair to say about the can of bible jason king pretty much made that strain very much So, yeah known. It wasn't a well-known strain. I don't think was it No, no no No And you know, he he talked about the rarity and how this guy never lets it out blah blah blah Few years later A person that we we we know who it was, but I don't think he'll ever admit it Right went on and tried to say that she was the the wife of the man Who held asian fantasy and he has died and she wants to get those genetics out there You know and ended up I think I'm pretty sure it was nyc kid Kind of big upping himself trying to give himself some provenance on a cut. He never had access to Well, we don't honestly we don't know that part of it because Who have you or anybody Ever seen this asian fantasy keyword fantasy outside of the can of bible and nyc kid and his crew No, I mean It's kind of a fantasy Yeah, and in fact african black magic. I mean, there's some there's some pictures of it or whatever But I mean jason king even talked about how homie wouldn't give it out to anyone And you know was it was a massive hoarder of it, you know And so there's an aspect to it there too where it's like people People can hoard something so much that it doesn't become famous Yeah, right, you know because nobody ever sees it like before Before this forum time that you were talking about there was probably like You know four or five people or something in california that had the chem 91 And someone just said I have asian fantasy s ones from th gobs. So he's still doing it Go nyc kid you go But yeah, I think it was like one of those things where like if you know if if og kush If some of the if some of these famous things don't slip out And people don't start cropping them, you know, there was an aspect where it was like for a long time There was only four or five garages pumping chem 91 Yeah, but like every you know, so how much weed is that not very much Doesn't really give you very much opportunity to try it doesn't really get give you an opportunity for like a fad You know Like if og hadn't snuck out if all those guys hadn't been money hungry down there in la and it had snuck out It probably wouldn't have had that kind of impact Yeah, because it has to be there You have to be able to get even even if you have to pay a lot for it. You do have to be able to access it Mm-hmm, right. So Asian fantasy is one of those things where like it, you know It never got out and then so as a result of that it allowed scammers to be like this is it Right and how could you tell the difference? Hey, um You know you you still You still buddies with the with ol jason Mr. King Um, I haven't spoken to him in a minute, but we're cool. Yeah, he lives on Maui I know, uh, I wonder if you can ask him kind of Maybe some of because I talked to him before I like met you met you Yeah You know he he uh He affirmed that, you know, all my information was right and then he was like, where'd you where'd you find all the stuff out? You know, so I mean, he might know some some background details that you know, definitely didn't make it into the book About yeah, I bet I've been actually thinking about reaching out and talking to him because one of the things that's interesting is that He probably has a shit ton of pictures Uh of weed from myself and my and some and friends and then people that I don't know obviously too, but Um, that didn't make it in the book Yeah, because you know, you might take, you know dozens or hundreds of pictures or something and then to make it Yeah, you pick a couple You know, uh and and all that but he um, you know, and I think I think the asian fantasy that he was talking about was in hawaii It could have been I want to say I remember and I could be totally wrong So maybe I shouldn't say it, but I think I think bodhi knows the asian fantasy person. Maybe I might be wrong I don't know. I'm gonna ask him Figure it out. I mean to me It's one of the it's it's one of those like legendary strains, you know, yeah that like just never I mean, you know, there's I'll mention another one. Do any of you guys have any uh any, um Uh experience with Elvis Yes, yes, but I don't know if it was I don't know how real it was It was just a cut called Elvis because there's some really famous stuff out there that just it was never in my crew Never in like the extended circles of crews and you hear about them for a long time And it got famous in various aspects, but it's just like You know, I also thought I had Albert Walker too, though So there is that, you know, like who knows who knows never got it from a good source that they could say yes This is where I got it. None of that shit Um last one I had I passed off to skunk bastard flex and I don't think you back to that And your albert walker was the orangey one, right? Yep. They go walker. Yeah, it'll day go Yeah, um Did you ever see the mothership come through? I can't remember if you said yeah Uh-huh. Oh, yeah, so I told this story before but like it got mailed to one of our spots Uh-huh So, uh jason kings. I don't think it's shade to say this but his girlfriend at the time was this chick named rebecca Yeah, and she was from ashville area of north carolina And so she you know, he used to rave about that cut all the time And so she finally got some of her friends to send it to us Yeah, right and dude it was like, uh, our buddy high and lonesome has a terrible story, uh, but Uh, it was kind of like that in the sense where I was expecting to get this tiny little box with some clones And we got this box that was like, you know This big by two feet tall or whatever And it was two mothership plants in one gallon pots with stakes and each one was about 18 inches tall In oh three or something like that and it was like so all those pictures in the canna bible that you see of mothership Those all came from those two moms that got mailed to us Yeah, and then we momed those out And uh, you know, it got they got grown at eddie lepps and they got grown at various friends houses and stuff like that So I actually had I actually I had the mothership for four or five years. I think And uh, it wasn't I think it was a super unique plant It wasn't one of them. I didn't have it didn't have the nicest flavor I didn't really like the flavor that much, but it had a pretty cool high And it did this weird thing where it would fall half over But then hold itself up So like, you know how most branches if they flop they flop It would like flop, but then it would like raise itself up and it would grow sideways through your garden Almost kind of a little like train wreck It would get would catch itself And and just like and it had like these it was a really odd sativa Um, it had thin leaves and it was big branchy thing Um, but you know, I mean I honestly like compared to All the other shit we've been talking about like bubba's and kems and you know super scum. It was it was a little midsy You know Uh in yellow reality, but it was one of those things that probably like was genetically very different than everything else So I like I like, you know, we like those weird things Uh, real quick to touch back on Elvis. Since you were you were on thc farmers stuff for a long time, right? Caleb? Or at least attentive to it Um, I was on the outskirts of the devil's harvest crew back in those days too And uh, there was there were some of those guys that one circulated through that crew A good bit and it it started, uh, I think e rock from maybe like I don't know if I should say a stay. Eh. It's a long time You know, uh, I think he's he circulated Elvis for a while through there I wouldn't be surprised if a doctor maybe had grown it He uh, he was he was real good buddies with a lot of those cats And I mean the whole time I was I was online. I only I only traded cuts, uh through the mail. Maybe uh, I only received cuts through the mail twice. I think Um, I like, you know, 40 50 plus You know Packages of cuts, but I only received twice I did all my other business just in person up and down the west coast so That's me. I'm very much I'm in person Do you remember, uh, miss Elvis from the farm? Mm-hmm. I wasn't very active on the farm at all Very very little It was a person who showed like they were the main person showing the the Elvis cut back then There was something called like the pink Cadillac cut and then there was the Elvis cut Um, that's that's the only person I ever got it from but I never They disappeared like not even a month after giving it to me But they were the ones that were always documenting it on the farm But I never knew if that was if it's just someone from that Bullshit and made their way through because they disappeared so fast. Uh, after me popping up and getting it from them Was it super incency? Uh, no, it was exactly like what they talk about like a vinyl smell Vinyl this artificial vinyl Hmm Yeah, not incency at all I always think One of the things that's kind of interesting about that era too is it's kind of like the last era before like the The clone name dominance thing started happening Where everyone's growing og or everyone's growing sour or everyone's growing all that kind of stuff So there was a lot of these odd strains You know not odd in the sense that there's anything wrong with them just odd odd Random strains that were easily sold You know and so they they people liked them and they got traded Yeah, you know people weren't looking necessarily for like, oh, I need to get this specific cut because I'm going to be able to move it And it's going to go for x price, you know, they were more interested in like the legend or the history Or whatever of said cut or the person behind it And you could get on there and start talking about your cut And all of a sudden drum up a bunch of interest And especially like if we wanted to go back You know when we were talking about how small it was I mean think about how revolutionary, you know, just some some of matt's favorite some of blueberry stuff got, you know And how it looked There wasn't that much competition. There wasn't that much stuff outside of europe or shanty or sensey or You know Simon from serious or some of that stuff like there wasn't that many american breeders So the few people that were doing it like like mr. Soul or or dj short or whoever that were willing To to show their work. I think it kind of got like outsized You know outsized impact You know like sin sinny 99 probably got way more famous than it should have The super finance fleet, you know, just to be just to be just to be perfectly honest I don't think in today it would have the same lasting impact No, not today. No, it wouldn't it wouldn't have it wouldn't have been able to break through but it was like I do think because it is is like when you try to think of an outdoor plant that's fast enough and still considered sativa to most people I think that it's it would be very hard to find a replacement for c99 that's at fast with those type of high qualities And I think that also had a major effect because it was it's a perfect outdoor plant for blast and fast You know it could be grown indoors I just mean it got like all his work got really there wasn't that much competition So there was a lot of time to talk about You know like not only sinny 99, but like we're like the genius or the apollos or the this or the that or whatever Or like, you know, everybody got plenty of time to debate the four or five things that dj released Yeah, because there just wasn't that there wasn't that many different things You know, there wasn't that many now. There's there's thousands of breeders And so standing out is very hard then it was like, you know, what was what was there like, you know a dozen big people doing stuff Yeah, it was a lot easier for people to fucking keep other people down too Like the ones at the top since there wasn't a lot of competition and they held a lot of sway They could really cut fucker's throats real fast and it happened a lot too and it was a lot easier to do that You know, I would have probably got cut then if I had even tried to start back then Dude, I like I said, I was banned off every forum and it got to the point where I was like, fuck this I'm gonna start my own forum like mr. Nice. I never got banned from Um, I got asked to leave after a picture contest because the the right berry pictures beat out one of mr Nice's and he thought that was kind of fucked of me to put it in um But yeah, all the rest of them it was really hard because uh a lot of the ones a lot of people That were running those forums also had a seed company And most of those seed banks and seed companies would eventually start fucking people And if you were one of those people to speak up You're done, you know, they don't want you around Yeah, I I see mag definitely had some of that aspect to it too Yeah, there was the in crowd and the out crowd You know for sure as as far as that goes I'm I'm just out forum is still alive after everything that went on with it Yeah See people somebody talked about that people talk about 89 superskunk There was no 89 superskunk One of the one of the things that gets that that annoys the hell out of me Honestly, and this isn't to call out whoever has 89 superskunk But just in general is like they'll take the first year That something was ever released or named and be like I have that weed from a year or two before then Yeah, that's a big problem Like so the first time superskunk ever got used was in the 1990 seed bank catalog Yeah, that's when it had a picture. That's when it had a name. That's when neville released it You know, um, and so people are like, oh, I've got the 89 superskunk Well, how? You know, and then they're like, oh, you know, then they got to come up with like Well, you know, it was all that pre-release special shit because I my my uncle was buddies with homie who gave it down on special kickdown Oh, they'll be like, you know, you know, I got that 90 fought 93 centi star I actually have pictures of that 1989 superskunk and they look awful cookie-ish. It's pretty pretty But you know It happens all the time and then you see a lot of these old cuts right now the years keep getting earlier and earlier Yeah You know, I mean one thing and this isn't you know, this isn't to you know, obviously, uh, bowties use this or whatever else, right? But there is no g13 hash plant in the 88 catalogs No, no It came out in the 89 catalog For the first year 80 90 90 You know But 88 is much better It sounds nice You know, and I'm not trying to throw any shade on it or anything like that There's plenty of people that have found nice weed and you know, buddy made a bunch of hybrids with it And it came from ndn guy. I think right? Yeah, yeah Uh, original original year or whatever, you know, he reproduced it, but it's like it got released in 89 Yeah, right, but everyone calls it the great, you know the 88 Right close enough, you know, I'll details those that you know, some of that first piff some of that first stuff They talk about um, they'll call it the great 88 Yeah, that shit got released in 89 So there's a bunch of stuff out there where people will be like this cut is from a year or two before this line ever got released Here's a quick question though. I mean, I have zero experience in this Because I was living in my you know, hole in Humboldt, but um You were there so Or maybe maybe you were there years later. What was the possibility of them doing uh releases of their seeds? um at the canvas cups um at so that So that is true It is possible like for instance the first cannabis cup I went to the was the jack haraer cup Uh, and the whole thing was themed on him, right? Right and it was all about like it was the whole like all the festivities were all about the emperor wears no clothes And they released jack haraer seeds um, you know from uh Uh in 95 94 yeah 95 they released them, but it was you know, it was late november Right, uh, but it wasn't in the catalog till the following year Right, so it was like literally it was literally the first time for instance, uh Jack was dropped was at the camp was at the cannabis cup Right in late november. So I suppose you could have gotten it jack haraer at least six weeks before the year turned Right, right, you know I mean, uh For example, salmon creek big bud. Um, you know, uh, you know homeboy homeboy from salmon creek You know, he bought those seeds at the cup The year it won the cup and then smuggled 50 of those seeds home in his little belt you know hide away belt thing and That's you know, his selection from those Uh, sensey big bud seeds or whatever is what made salmon creek big bud Mm-hmm. I mean that's that's definitely possible a lot of times um A lot of new seed releases Would get dumped in late november then Because because it was like an industry gathering Right, and there was tons of and honestly there was tons of custies there I ended up hating going to amsterdam for the cannabis cup. I went three times and then never again Uh, mostly because it sucked uh, and the reason it sucked was that, uh Amsterdam is pretty far north And so it's cold as shit in late november there, right? So you can go in summer and it's nice and it's beautiful and you're on a bicycle and you're cruising around all stoned Or you can go when it's sleeting and 29 degrees And that's not as nice, you know And then all the best weed would get saved for celebrities that were coming in And a who's who so there was worse weed to get because it was all getting saved for You know snoop dog or you know samskunk man's friends or you know, whoever whoever the high times crew or whatnot And then on top of that You could buy tickets to go to the cannabis cup out of high times Right, so you go to europe on vacation And the coffee shops are full with all these dudes from jersey in new york Yeah screaming about wanting to get the best bud in the world So it's like you you fly 12 hours away from your house and you're surrounded by a bunch of obnoxious east coasters And there's not as good weed and it's crowded and it's cold and it's raining or it's snowing and it's like I much preferred going there in summer You know just because it was nice and chill You know, but it was like an event that was like the it was it was an event then You know, um, and you know really like the story goes, you know, uh Neville didn't even want to release jack harrier that year Um, he didn't think it he didn't think he didn't think it was done But they wanted something new and hot that they could call jack harrier And isn't the story of of fucking Cindy 99 that it fucking dude bought jack harrier in a coffee shop and found seeds in it Yep, and then took him home and started his whole cubing fucking princess Whatever thing that he did I don't think rick did anything like that I'm just saying that's the story. Yeah, you know, he found bag seed in a in buds that he bought at a coffee shop Yeah D99 and genius are are both jack harrier at best hybrids Yeah, and and really like and you know, I think back then that was even earlier Like we weren't using the improper term backcross yet Or you know bx They were talking about fucking wasn't it cubing? Yeah, yeah, it was it was cubing you were cubing you were like Fucking and they had all those like long-winded posts on On fucking the forums about what percentage and how much it was increasing with everyone you did and laying it all out, you know Yeah There was some really bad breeder tech being shared That seemed cutting edge at the time Mm-hmm. You know still repeat that fucking shit like like uh Mantra. Oh, you gotta backcross it four times and you get that's as good as an s1 That's a clone man. And I saw and I saw somebody talking about I like the super silver haze better than the jack harrier um, the whole reason super sat silver haze exists is because Um neville didn't feel like the jack harrier project was ready for prime time He just released it due to you know, allen and ben dronkers from sensi were businessmen And so when he left he kept working on it Mm-hmm, and then a couple years later. I think in 97 or something He released mango and neville and super silver haze because he felt like, you know, they'd actually gotten somewhere Right, right, right, but they still did a couple and I actually think that was the last big release that neville ever did, right? But I mean I smoked that That super silver haze cut because two I went in 90 I was basically like every other year like I went 97 and 99 two to the cups And those last two cups that super silver haze was all over the place Because that right that was in that was like the first and third year at one It was like the hot shit over there Right, right. It really was it was the hot shit. I mean it was super. There was a feno of it that went like 14 weeks Uh, will the community let res back into play? Uh res is doing his own thing you know What most people don't know about res and our our a couple of buddies reminded reminded me of not that long ago was like Before all the bullshit with the with the law enforcement and all that Um, he was a dick online anyway Right big time. He was a big time troll jerk Generally a pain in the ass to get along with not a pleasant homie Yeah, despite despite any of the rest of the bull whatever you want to believe about You know all the mess that happened legally legally or whatever. Uh, yeah, he was a he was an early troll He was a jackass He had a huge ego He he still does He had a a decent level of intelligence Which would have been I think much more appreciated if he hadn't had so much ego with it Yeah, a little looking middle, you know, I mean not, you know, a bunch of ego and a bunch of rudeness You know, there was some root. There was some rude people you could put up with a little bit better But they were like borderline geniuses Right, right, right, you know, like tom hill could be a real dick if you asked a dumb question I wouldn't know anything about ass being rude. That's I wouldn't put up with it, you know or or samskunk man He could be a dick too because you know, you get tired of I've told the same story five billion times Right, you're gonna question me You're 23. Shut the fuck up. You're a cocksucker, you know, eat my dick, you know, basically Kind of rude rude kind of rude, you know, but it's hard. It's hard to have patience You know and let's face it, right a lot of us are weirdos A lot of us don't have the greatest interpersonal skills to begin with You know What it really is I mean speaking for me, I probably have a little bit more than your average grower Just a bit. Yeah, you know But a lot but a lot of them it's like, you know, we're kind of harsh edges people that live in the hills Don't talk to people hang out with plants and they're really good with plants and they're not so good with social interaction Right So you put those people on the forums and you put those people like, you know on ig or whatever and it's like it's not the easiest thing I did have an adjustment period that I will admit I had an adjustment period of where I may have been a little meaner In responses and talking to people a little snappy maybe a little bit of ego You know it happens But some of us grow into beautiful smiling faces like this I'm also still banned from breed bay for uh picking on sub cool It's also it's also the way I look at it is like, you know, I mean everybody has the natural inclination sometimes But it's like are you trying to get your point across you trying to fucking argue on it? Right. Oh, here's this dude who says his dad created dog bud. I remember that guy He's trying to dox me. I think I'm gonna balk him. Okay. There you go I mean the thing the thing about well the one thing we'll say about dog bud And then we'll move on is that joe brand And p-bud we're buying and selling weed on dead tour all the time For cash to go see dead shows Right and then this one weekend they sold some weed And then they mailed greg some more weed And then 15 years went by before they even heard anything cool came out of it Right they literally they they never saw Chem 91 or anything like that until 06 until the reunion when the forums got people back together They had no idea They're on dead tour, right? They met they you know, you know, these got Greg was and it was a teenager from the east coast and they sold him some weed in indiana Mm-hmm, right, which was just one stop on summer tour And you're buying pounds and you're selling eighths and quarters and halves and ounces And it ran out and you buy some other pounds and you just keep doing that and you did that for a while And one of these sales turned into something Mm-hmm, and now you want to hey 15 years ago. Do you remember? Uh, it was summer On dead tour. Do you remember this one couple pounds you had that you were hustling for like a weekend? Do you have any clear memory of that? Because it's kind of important well, I think uh, I think you might have uh remembered just because he um Hit joe brand up, you know G hit hit joe brand up again and had him mail him some more weed I think yeah, well, right who ounces and we don't even know if the seeds came from the deer creek show Or the seeds came from the weed that joe sent him later It's I from based on the stories. I've kind of deciphered. I think it It came from the ones that was sent that one had no seeds But then again, we know g stories are a little up and down I mean, you know not to I like two of my favorite cuts of all time come out of g's little rooms But I will say that um, all of us on this thing have tried to uh Have tried to interpret what he meant by rejuvenating the 91 after it got tired in 94 Oh, I always rejuvenate them Rejuvenate. Yeah, the rejuvenation. He had to let it go and rejuvenate it That's how you fix it Hey from seed and that shit never got explained You know And so I don't you know, there's When when any time you have a situation where you know, we can even go back and take You know like ancient, you know ancient virginia skunk bud grown for sssc Or mr. Soul, you know working for sssc You know you you create these ancient legends and it's like how do you disprove them? Yeah, in a lot of cases you can't prove or disprove because they're so old Well, let's get back to the forums. I got a question. Yeah. Yeah Um What was the first place? Do you remember where the first like seed bank the first seed bank that carried your shit when people could actually buy it? Which one was it? Well, we don't talk about that Oh, okay, so is it an unmentionable? I ain't friends with that guy anymore My fault that dude a little loco Yeah, okay. Gotcha You got to remember I didn't even Start my seed company until 2014. Yeah. Yeah, I remember Yeah, I I I could say one thing is that my buddy that I never mentioned his name But statin island when we were doing all the superdog work And we were doing all those hybrids that made it into the canna bible he had big dreams Of realizing that you could probably make more money like off of an eight lighter of seed Then you could off an eight lighter of flower And he saw what was coming. I honestly didn't believe him You know, I didn't think I didn't think that we you would ever be able in america to like Package up and sell Enormous amounts of seed or anything like that because at the time We were making all this stuff and we were literally giving it away to good friends and stuff because We had more than we knew what to do with and there wasn't an outlet for it Um, you know the era that the kale talks about getting involved is is one of the earlier eras where you could really actually start to sell it It wasn't simple in the beginning even even if you were an active breeder Finding out how to get it to the community wasn't very simple No, at all you had to trust. I mean like even even with me. I started the Selling seats directly really early for for a us person But when I first started you still had to Really put your trust in someone in europe for the most part if you wanted any kind of traction for your seeds if you wanted any I mean you hadn't worked with seed banks for people. They eventually know who you are the seed bank didn't carry you You probably weren't fucking important. I thought that's where everybody looked at it We were about to go into csi after dark Yeah Yeah, but yeah, I mean, uh, you know a good bit of that was in the 90s You know when dj short wanted to get his blueberry seed out there He had to give it away To uh two different groups in europe Yeah, first he had to give it to tony at sag martha and then he had to give it to dutch passion I don't know if he intentionally gave it away, but I think that's how it ended up working out I think if he uh Didn't didn't he purposely given to him and he purposely did I think he thought that he would still retain all control and this and that that's where he was probably mistaken But in order for him to even like get money for his seeds He had to send them to an established seed bank Yeah in a different continent That's how hard it was to move seeds then But you know when he I think sag martha they had his seeds and what like, you know the mid 90s or something like that Uh right around there The internet didn't even exist then really Right, right I did but not not on any level that you were going to be able to use it for that Yeah, yeah, I think overgrowth started in either 98 or 99 Or yeah, it yep. No, you're right about that So like the first forums the first being able to exchange stuff Like how would dj have even set up and internet was going to set up a geo cities like fucking You know web page and sell illegal beans You know, um, I mean up until up until they passed the the 215 and in late 96 I think it was It was it was illegal in all 50 states. There wasn't any there wasn't even a legitimate reason you could possess any of it Yeah And I think he feels burnt. He felt burned But you know, what were you going to do when you gave it away to the dutch? Right if he didn't know that those those dutch guys were going to do whatever the fuck they wanted with it Then he was just he had just done his groundwork Yeah, right well, yeah, that that that's uh blueberry is almost a A full day's topic just by itself It is but I just meant in the sense that like just to use it on the example of how hard it was to sell seeds If you were a small american breeder Yeah, he had to work with the dutch just to get it out there There wasn't an avenue. What were you gonna do? I mean, you know, um You know even like early even early american, you know, seed sellers or whatever used to try to fake That their stuff was based out of europe Right, right Right You know, I I mean one of the things that ig did and and the middle and and the sort of the middle era of to middle late 215 was things opened up enough that people felt free To be able to like, you know, you could have a swamp boys You could have a csi humble. You could have a you could have just these people that were like i'm gonna make my own packaging I'm gonna make my own beans. I'm gonna go to these like gray area cannabis cup swap meats And hustle seeds. I'm gonna start to mail Um, I can say back in 02030405. I mean my buddy from statin island would tell me about this stuff that he wanted to do and I would laugh at him I was like, oh you want us to all go to jail Because that's what that's what it seems like you're talking about to me You know, yeah when I started I I was one of the p I think I was one of the few people that pretended that My website was in amsterdam just to like Try to hide under the shadows, you know, just because no one was doing it It fucking was a big red flag. So even yeah, I mean just waiting for that hit even having the infrastructure set up to be successful Yeah And and that's kind of why there was so few breeders back then Because it was generally done out of love And you were trading amongst other people and there wasn't something like there is now where somebody can be like Oh, I'm gonna drop my mac one drop and I'm gonna make 200 grand and you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna hype it Yeah, you really couldn't hype it. There wasn't marketing. There wasn't an ability to reach a big audience Right, right I don't think You know It took a while well In in in the era, you know, oh six, you know Through oh eight even 2010. I mean most of the marketing most most of the availability Was all based on internet forums, right? Yeah, you know, that was yeah And people should also remember that when overgrown cannabis world got shut down They got shut down because a very big, uh, you know, seed bender got raided Uh heaven stairway That was and that scared a bunch of people And there's still repercussions and ripples hitting from that fucking bust, you know And you know and then you know and and you know and people even in canada and stuff like that, you know mark emory You know, uh, I mean he he went to fucking he went to jail You know Did you have any dealings with mark emory kello? At all. Oh, no, no interactions No interactions at all, but uh, um, you know, I was I was getting uh Cannabis culture or cannabis canada from pretty much like the first issue You know, I've always been a historian. So I mean I have hundreds and hundreds of canabucks and I was you know for years. I was getting every single magazine that was put out on on everything So I've always been way more of a reader than a talker Yeah, you know It helps put details together sometimes Yeah, it does. Yeah But no no no direct, you know dealings. I mean Uh, the stuff I liked from From those magazines though and and him were like the abc stuff from back in the late 90s And then the purple indica purple cush stuff that was in those early issues as well But uh, and then emory was working with the same purple indica that's around now or at least a relative It wasn't emory. Uh, there was an article, uh, based out of snohomish county in in washington And it it basically dated that that stuff back into the you know at the very least, you know early mid 90s Yeah, that's cool. So There was a question we were talking about the other night and I was like, oh, I need to ask not so that And I can't remember what it was. It had something to do with, uh How did kim do you make it to california not so? Oh, yeah, how did it make it here? Yeah, who brought it? Oh, that's that's pretty simple story. So, um, it ties into the forums. So people in oh six people started getting excited about, uh, kemdog and the kemdog story because it started getting posted, uh, like, um, Caleb was saying shot our shaba had got Uh got, um, skunk va to start posting about his, you know, recollections and different stuff like that and and then You know, that's kind of actually what started to reunite um, uh people like piba and joe brand and Uh, kemdog all they all started chatting I believe they even called like the the seeds that ended up being the one through four the reunion seeds Or yeah, the number four they, uh, named the reunion feno specific reunion feno That's what it was right because it was like they'd all they'd all kind of met up as this You know, like different people were like, hey, dude, they're talking about your story on the internet, right? and so kemdog hadn't actually had the kem 91 in quite a long time um, he had gotten in trouble and lost it and he had been working with some of the, uh, kemdog Super skunk hybrids that he had and bag seed and different things And when it got famous again, he wanted it back, uh, but nobody had it So he got, um, he got skunk. He got skunk va to go back east with it And he was like if you bring it back to bring it back to me and I've got this different one that you guys don't have out there And um, I'll give it to you Um, so he went back east and and saw a dude and gave him the and gave him the dog and then Greg gave him the d And he came back and momed it up and that's how, uh, me and uh, I see collective both got it So is scum pa that did it brought it out a percent. Oh cool And that was it. I was on you scum pa It was him. It was it was all it's he's the reason it's he to me He's the reason it's on the west coast Very cool. Uh, he put forth the effort. He went back east to see chem dog Uh, he gave he gave the dog to chem dog. He got the d That was that I think if I remember to, um, uh, I believe that, um Chem dog tried to give him back the mss Yeah, he just said that but it was the shorter one that was in the high times and it wasn't what, uh, Homie remembered it all that makes a lot of sense too Yeah, so then yeah, so then he came back and he grew it up into a mom Or whatever and then uh, I see collective and myself got it not that long after that and But to me it's like the reason it's on the west coast is is skunk pa well on greg uh on g's tour, um He uh, he he dropped it off, uh in The you know la area with swerve the chem d in o six But this is off of o six. He um and swerve traded him a bunch of fake cuts for it You know a big deal and then he also stopped at, uh, he stopped at, um, You know obsolete and central cow Um on his tour and then he stopped at joe brand's and then he headed up into organ and stopped at some other folks Place and I think he might have given them the chem d too But he he stopped at a good handful of places giving cuts out selling weed at dispensaries all that kind of stuff on his You know reunion tour of sorts and this was all like first week of august o six so it sounds like, uh skunk va went over there, you know earlier in the year and and and got The same or similar cut. I don't know Seems like there was a few cuts that got passed out that year Yeah Yeah, I mean it so but that's that's kind of that's how that's how that the That led to a bunch of stuff that led to the the one two three four Getting popped and started to get traded around Right, right. Um, that led to the d that led to the one through the four and the d and all that starting to get added to the mix um I don't know that the weird thing about the the chem stuff is that my buddy Disliked the sys quite a bit. He thought it was ugly and he didn't like how it got him high So he never brought it west And so it never really percolated around our crew Um, you know, we way later we saw some of the s ones Um, but not the actual not the actual first one You know, yeah So But yeah, I mean that's and I you know, I'm pretty sure Uh, you know, he I I never I never lost it after skunk gave it to me Um, yeah, I mean that and that's that's the kind of thing like, you know, uh csi and I talk about it all the time It's like are there strains where like the chain of custody wasn't broken Mm-hmm All right, right because once you lose the chain of custody Um, you know, it's hard Mm-hmm. It gets hard, you know, like Um, because Who knows, you know, you try to you you lost the sour diesel you try to get it back It's not the same thing you remember you lost to this you try to get it back. It's not the same you remember Um, you know, so on and so forth. So You know Kind of like when uh, 707, uh shabbat got his vava back from me Um, I I I don't think I did it on purpose. It was an accident It got mixed up in a flat because I was bringing a ton of people a bunch of stuff at a party and uh Then like a year later. He's like, yeah In inspectors bubba and I was like, what's this inspectors bub and he had bomb threat and not Not But I was like my bad my bad. I ain't trying to give you, you know, the fake That's one. Well, not fake. But you know, yeah But yeah, that happens all the time I think I'd take a bomb threat over Over original maybe you can always get a new bomb threat if you have that That's true. It's a good point. You know Here's a question for you since uh, we've kind of meandered away from the forum stuff, but Do you see a side? Do you do any work with diesel? Are you planning any work with it? I mean, uh Maybe maybe if I could find a mass super skunk. Yeah. Yeah, that was for you too really I was telling him last night that I think he should because I think it's a it's a rad clone But it is it is very finicky and it does make it a lot harder to to pull off reversals on unhappy finicky shit Right. It would it would be really cool kind of Uh attempt to remake like a sour type from You know building blocks. I mean, yeah, you know, we all have the the 91 But you know what building blocks, you know, it might not have to be the exact thing But what could you get close enough to? To make a sour diesel out of you know, the original building blocks. Yeah, you know I think I think diesel leans closer to a sour type than it does a chem type personally Yo, yeah, definitely definitely. Yeah, I think so It's a cool one Yeah, yeah All right, so people want to hear something about Irene. I don't know what they want to hear about Irene I think we've already told the story of Irene, but do you have any good Irene tales? Oh, I don't know. I mean She's cool Um, I had Irene for a little bit. Um, and didn't realize she was She was you know as as nice as she was until I think I grew her outdoors Uh in maybe 2008 I'm thinking Yeah I don't want to fudge the fudge the dates though. Um, but yeah, she came out so nice back then You know Good old-fashioned Atlanta Atlanta's finest Yeah, it is a special one. Yeah I mean, it doesn't have a whole Whole lot of a story, you know Yeah, just another another bag seat really That's what it goes down to. It's just another fucking bag seat I mean that is one of the most humbling things about reading Is that a lot of the most famous strains are total accidents Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, right and then you put a bunch of time and work and effort into stuff And then you know your air conditioner goes out and some shit herms and the seat off of that is better than anything you tried to do And I think a lot of times when it comes to like these stories The the accidental weed is so good. It's what makes people want to try to like shoehorn in that they Had some intentional part of making it Not so much that I was just there or we got like they don't want to say well, I just got lucky in my room They want to be like oh Well, I did this and I did this and I did this and then that happened and yeah, now it's all the weed that you all want Look, everybody's got to work their stud. Isn't that how it's done? You know, but but really it was more like, you know, I was I had my room I ended up partying for a few days. I fucked off. I walked in there. There was some bananas. I found some seeds trimming That's like 99 percent of bag seat stories Yeah, that that's kind of why I believe a Matt Matt burger and josh d story because it's not impressive. It's not a It's a herm, you know in a little closet under the stairs story and it's just like who makes that stuff Yeah This is oops Yeah, I mean, you know, I it that's very humbling But I I also do think that a lot of that 90s weed It just goes to show that when you're crossing things that like aren't when you're crossing real fire You know, um, it's a lot easier to get You know like was was nevel an amazing breeder or did he just get to get the best of the best from america and cross it together for the first time? Right, right, you know, I'm saying there's an there's an act there's arguments to both He was you know, he was the first person to cross an ellen skunk right, you know Huh No, uh, no, uh, I was thinking you should get uh tom on and try to get uh Uh Figure out a little more details about pintar and all that kind of stuff because love to You know, I don't think he even knows who I am to get him on very not likely I I think he's banned off of ic mag. So uh, yeah, I mean, let me ask you like a real question Do you think that he would be better for a live or do you think you would be better for uh, uh, a lightly edited? Uh podcast or something. Oh probably a Heavily edited podcast because I mean we definitely matt and I have definitely interviewed some like knowledgeable old timers right and like Yeah No, Tom Tom's a character. I like him, but man, he'll yeah I'm trying off topic Yeah You know, so there's there is a question everybody is asking and it's up to you if you want to talk about I don't even know if you want to deal with this one right now or save it for a full episode. Caleb. Mm-hmm Backstory on z. What do you think? Oh, man um, I don't want to like Say say yet Because yeah, let's say you want to save it for a full show of some sort later Well, I still have some growings to do on that whole thing, but yeah, man I I wouldn't be surprised if it's not just An s1 of of that green sherbert cut. Yeah, um, there's there's just too too many similarities and The whole, you know, uh headers. I goes homo zygos thing between the two of them Really kind of leans towards it just being a s1 of that Yeah, but I don't know. Um Um Yeah, I could go on and on on some comparisons on You know how some of that stuff could uh Could potentially make sense Um, yeah, but I don't know. I don't know Yeah, we'll save it for another time. But yeah, that's a it's a good answer one thing one thing that is cool about that is that CSI and I and man, we all talk all the time about how when you compare stories To what the plants tell you Uh, how they breed what their s1s look like Um, what what they look like when they get crossed to different things And how what your eyes tell you lines up with what the story is Right, right, right, you know and sometimes it it sometimes it adds a lot In terms of what you see You know like about I have a I have a really hard time believing That the the the sys the 91 the chem d and the one through four all came out of the same bud Yeah, yeah, you know, um, they're just too vastly different to me. Um, you know, but that's I wasn't there either You know and a lot of this stuff is like the most famous stories they All almost because almost all of them come from accidents and because a lot of them come from other people It's like the people that marketed stuff or marketed skittles or marketed cookie or whatever Like they probably, you know, different people get it. Maybe it doesn't get quite as famous You know, um, you know, and they should get great credit for marketing it to the point that they did Yeah, right. Oh, yeah 100% Huh, I've never disputed that. Um, you know, I I give lots of people accolades for successfully marketing and You know building, you know clones that would never have been anything up, you know, to what they are Uh What I've always, you know frown on of course is, you know, people being dishonest doing it I think you can do it honestly and still be successful Sure You know having to just make up big old big old, you know fictitious backstories Or yeah, like you're the one responsible for it That's why instead of you know, I mean there's cats like, you know, josh and matt are like, oh, yeah It was a harm accident under the stairs and then there's other cats, you know Who are like, yes, we created that from our multi-thousand plant grows. Aren't we awesome? Yes. Yes, we popped We popped 15 seeds and the 20th was the best so, you know um, you know, I I think the the truth is is The the biggest factor for me Yeah, and yeah, there's an aspect where and you know, we should say this too is that Truth is a most people everyone likes to say they want the truth But like people that really care about it. It's like a really small percentage Yeah Most people like truth if it helps them burnish their money or their reputation or whatever else Sure, and the truth is usually boring And I hope people who are looking for excitement from the truth They're gonna be like, oh, well that was lame Yeah, something up. I don't care Especially when the answer is 99 of the time. Oh, it was a bad seed Yeah Or yeah, or you know, or it happened in an accident at my buddy's house Or I said this or I was you know, like, you know, you were early involved and you know the story Even just knowing the story is cool Right, but then people want to be part like they want to be this active component That was critical to the story You know right And I I did forget someone earlier that was really important when I was was you know coming in and that was That was doing reversals before I was and that was rascal I think I I think I would be remiss not to mention him because he was doing good things and had legitimate cuts You know for the most part As far as I know like he was doing good fucking work And he was doing it at a time when it wasn't popular when people were pushing back against feminized seeds So I give that guy props to all the stuff that that guy made between whatever it was. Oh nine and 12 or whatever Yeah, all those hybrids are fire Yeah, there was some good shit in there. I mean he really I'm maybe not all but like the vast majority of the stuff He had some really nice cuts and he was crossing them together and they led to some really nice things Yeah, I mean white fire, you know, a lot of people don't even know like about the white anymore Like not a lot of people talk about it. That that was the essence behind the white fire. That was fucking cool Right, right. Yeah that That's one I'd like to touch on too in the future. Um, oh, yeah They they, uh, you know The swamp boys, uh, big ricky in particular. He uh, he's alluded a lot to knowing exactly what the hybrid of the white is because it's supposedly a tk hybrid Um, but you know, he he likes riddles and secrets. So Speaks and riddles and limericks. I call it a haiku. He'll Billy haiku Like he sometimes I wonder how long he takes the craft Uh, some of his instagram posts and how to make it like, you know, he because he's got his own language When it comes to that, you know, have you seen have you seen stuff like the white inside the tks ones? Yeah, yeah, you have there there was a there was one plant in our first run of them where, um Actually, there was there was there was four plants that uh, we pulled out of the first run And uh One was a green girl scout cookie like a green form cut Other was a plant that looked just like the white You know, not hope but So similar. Yeah, it was obvious And then there was the number 50 and the 51 were Which were my two actual favorites of the whole bunch and Then, you know, I I smoked both those heavily and the 50 turned out to be my absolute favorite of the whole bunch And so that's the one I kept in Still play with from the first and then I did another 100 plus, you know, tks one pop and You know got other selections from there Yeah So kyle, what do you think about cookies? Uh, great question for when asked. What do you think? Uh, I think that uh goes into the category of 2000 Uh, what 2010 and on form 2010 2011. Yeah People people ask a bunch of that and I think I mean It's a story You know, and it's a story that like there's a lot of pieces that aren't known that well Um, but it's a definitely one that's going to create a it's you know, it's a super popular brand There's a lot of money involved. There's a lot of rep involved And it's one of those things if you don't get it exactly right there. It's going to be gunning for you Here's a a relevant one. Here's a relevant one for you. Are you gonna s1 any of the nl selections? I was gonna leave that up to you buddy. Yeah, I think we might I think we might I'm gonna see how it goes Uh, yeah, no, I think they'd be worth it. I think they do that You know, I like my feminized so I'll grow some of Matt's uh s1 nl's Hell yeah There we go. Well, we kept him here for god damn a long time. So I know he's got a busy night I gotta get back to packing. Um, anything else anybody wants to talk about? Awesome So what's what's the next drop Caleb and where where can we find it? Oh, I don't know if I'm Dropping dead maybe Drop the next drop is dead I'm I'm I'm good for now. Okay. Well go check out humboldtsi.com. Correct Yeah Yeah, humboldtsi.com keep your eyes peeled. He's always putting stuff up on there on and off He doesn't often announce it. So just keep checking back. Um, I'm still waiting up those next drop What's that? I'm still waiting on not so's next drop. Yeah, where the fuck's that at not so It's slowly developing Okay, good. It's slowly developing through You know, I'm not that I'm not that public of a guy It's changing though, you know The both of you, uh Basically, like if if the two most important people for you guys seeing my face on a weekly basis is the two people on this Talk tonight Guaranteed without them. I would not be showing my face Or chatting about stuff. They both pushed for quite a long time to get me to tell stories and talk shit Um, so really it it really is they gave me the confidence to say you people would want to hear it Let's chat. Let's talk history And you know, and there's an aspect to it too where it's like a lot of this stuff We're talking about with you guys. This is what we've all been doing amongst each other privately for fucking ever Yeah So we've all heard each other stupid fucking stories a hundred times You know And and all that and so this is this is really how information gets information and cuts gets saved and and shared And you know history survives And generally the point of all this is to get you know versions of history out there and gets passed along Right. Yep. So other so newer people can hear it. So it's it's just not a wash in bullshit And everyone keep your eyes peeled for a sterling What is it sterling green drop eventually? Yeah, eventually eventually eventually when it when it comes around Everybody's asking about it. So I figured I plug it and there's a bunch of good questions today We didn't get to as always if just because just because you asked and we didn't chat Um, you know doesn't mean it's not it's not worthwhile. You can always message us about them We're always looking for different things to chat about what people have interest in You know, so uh keep all that stuff coming. We always appreciate you guys. It's friday night for a hundred percent So Super and go go check out the breeder syndicate patreon. You got to go to google type in breeder syndicate patreon Go check it out. Go show some love to speakeasycbank.com They're who edits and and gets these things up for the podcast version So show them some love and uh, check out ridecco.com and humblecsi.com And we will see you next week probably at the same time exactly Peace. Good. Thanks. Good. Have a good one Night everyone