 What's up everybody and welcome to a summer school edition. I just coined that phrase the last time when I totally screwed up the take of the Falcons Final Wizzle podcast recorded in the Ticketmaster Studios. I'm Scott Berthes, Troy McElaney. I will let some people behind the curtain and say that this, I've had two ICTs now and this is my, this is our third podcast in a row. It may be a little loopy, just throwing it out there right now. But you know what, it's all good because we're going to talk about the D fan. That's right. And what we're going to do the same format that we did with the offense where we go over three things that we learned and we feel comfortable and confident saying about this defense. And then afterward, we're going to address three questions that we need answered over the summer and the fall about this particular unit. Go back and watch the offense one. It was fun. Really enjoyed it. Now let's get into this defense story, which looks a little different than it has before, comes with some different expectations too. So, and again, just like with the, the, the offensive one, you phrased it so, so perfectly about the thing that we know about this defense. Yeah. The thing we know about this defense is that Grady Jarrett finally, finally has some help. And I, I think if you're Grady Jarrett, you are as excited to go into this year as any year in the last few years. If you're being honest, and that's nothing against the guys that were on this team before, nothing at all against them, but the caliber of player that the Falcon specifically went out and got on the defensive front specifically to go along with Grady Jarrett. I mean, I just think you have, if you're Grady Jarrett, you're just so excited. And we've talked to him throughout OTAs and mini camp, all that kind of stuff. And he does, he does seem excited. You talked to him about Clayus Campbell. And the fact that Clayus Campbell is a guy that chose to come to Atlanta, that means something for Grady Jarrett and what he's done here and what he wants to continue to do here. But DePrius came in, David on Yamada. And some, that was something that really stood out when Arthur Smith's talking about this defensive front. And he's talking about how well Grady Jarrett and David on Yamada already without the pads on, without like going 110% how well those two guys worked together because of their style of play. And then you throw in Ryan, Ryan Nielsen, who is a defensive front guy through and through. And I just think that this position that Grady Jarrett is in, and I know that we talked about this when we did a podcast with John Abraham, not too long ago. We're talking about this clip when the Falcons played Detroit a couple years ago, where Grady is triple-teamed. And he goes, man, y'all don't have to block anybody else. You cannot do that now in 2023. You just can't, because you're leaving David on Yamada unblocked, but DePrius, Clayus Campbell, Lorenzo Carter. I mean, that to me, I think it's just so, it's just such a breath of fresh air that we have for Grady Jarrett. Yeah, I think so. And they can come in waves, which is what you want from a defensive line. We're talking about the front line guys, but to Kwong Graham is back from injury. Timmy Horn is growing within it. Eddie Goldman is a nose tackle and massive. They have some depth to bring in waves. I think that's also important. You talk about, okay, you can't triple-team Grady anymore. If you're an offensive line coach, you can have to pick your poison on who to double-team to, which means somebody's going to go head-to-head with a guard or maybe a center or however they scheme it up. But I think that that's going to create natural opportunities. We've talked for the last couple years, the Falcons have not done enough to sack the quarterback. Getting pressure is important. Great. But your game-changing plays, when the quarterback goes down, he drops the ball, something dramatic happens on a like, or forces an errant pass that gets picked. And to have that around Grady Jarrett is important. Something that I'm stealing from you. And so Tori talked to David on Yamada during minicamp. Such a great quote that you got from him talking about all these additions, right? But David made a point of saying that this is still Grady's group. And that is, I mean, you look at this defense in general. And I actually use this, I was talking to Lorenzo Carter as well. And we kind of started talking about this is the house that Grady built. Oh, that's really good. And like, I was just sitting there like, oh, that's that's so well put. Like, it really is this idea that Grady Jarrett has been the guy here in Atlanta, what he's built for himself, just as a defensive tackle in the league, as one of the best in the league. I mean, and to me, when you see a guy who has been here, who has put in the work that Grady Jarrett did, and I was actually telling my dad this not too long ago, I'm like, you know, everybody talks about like, OTAs are voluntary, and then you get to mini camp. Grady Jarrett has been in this league for a long time. He showed up to every single OTA practice, mini camp or voluntary or whatever he was here, day in, day out. And I take notice of stuff like that, because he's a veteran, like, he really doesn't have to if you don't want to. You don't have to be at any of them, except the mini camp. Yeah, literally didn't have to. But he's there and he shows up. And I think like, in just in terms of that respect, you see guys like Kaleis Campbell, but to pre David on Yamada, respect Grady and what he has done here, especially because he doesn't have Aaron Donald type stats. Right. He just doesn't because he's been triple teamed a lot recently, but but also just that he's not exact. He's not that he's not a carbon copy of that guy. So I think to see the league wide respect, he told me, gosh, maybe back in 2021 that what he the pride that he gets is of course, when you have big numbers or you help your team win, but he's had several situations where after the game, the offensive line coach from the other team comes and finds him and says, the week's been held because of you. Yeah. And that he said means as much or more to anything. So they're the lead, the league wide respect is there. And he's the public face of this team right now. Yeah. Right now. Maybe Robinson, Vision Robinson takes it over. Maybe some other offense player does, but who's on the billboards? Grady is, right? And I think that for everyone to kind of pay homage to that is important and for the Falcons to go out and get him some help is important as well. Also, isn't Kaleis Campbell like one sack away from 100? He most certainly is. So do you know, somebody get a graphic ready. Do you know who will be the most excited if he plays a role in that Grady Jared? 100%. If Grady Jared can pull a blocker off of the Kaleis Campbell and Kaleis can go sack a quarterback and get number 100, Grady Jared will be the first one there to congratulate him. Right. And another kind of side tangential thing, and then we'll get back on script here is that nobody expected Ryan Nielsen or Arthur Smith after they hired their new defensive coordinator to go up and get on the white board and say, this is exactly what we're going to do. And this is exactly what we're going to look like, right? I think another thing that we learned is when you look at the New Orleans Saints line where Ryan Nielsen coached them and worked with them for a long time, massive humans everywhere. Yeah. Cam Jordan is massive human. Right. Do you know what? The Falcons went out and got in for agency. A bunch of massive humans. Bud Dupri and Kaleis Campbell are just giant individuals. And so I think that we learned that, look, it's going to be hybrid. It's going to be, you know, all these buzz words that coaches like to say when they want to be like super vague and not really tell you, it's going to be a little New Orleans-y. And that's not a problem because New Orleans has had a really, really good defensive front for a very long time. Right. Ryan Nielsen, David Anyamata, they've played a role in that. Yeah. And I think that that's something else that we learned if we're just looking at actions, right? If we're looking at actions and what they brought in, we're seeing, we're going to have some Saints type style in here, which is a good thing because the guys they got can execute it. Yep. And Caden Ellis in the middle can execute it. I think those things are important. And I think that's a good transition to what we learned. Number two is that the Falcons linebackers can run. They are so fast. I think more than anything, I've, I feel like I've spoken on this podcast about this, but the, and we've talked at practice about this. I mean, it's something I've talked to my dad about forever. But the line, the NFL linebacker, how it is transitioned from what it was historically, maybe in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s, where they're just these giant dudes with those neck pads, neck braces, or whatever. Like Mike Singletary. Yes. Right. Yes. Where they are just like these bulldogs. That is not the case anymore. They are like, what is it? Like a Doberman? Like they are tough and quick and speedy and move very, very well. Maybe a Rottweiler. I mean, Troy Anderson isn't like a small guy. But he runs up four four. So you're really, I think more than anything, you are seeing the modern era of linebackers. The best example I can give you is Caden Ellis and Troy Anderson right now in the middle of this defense is this is what a modern linebacker looks like in the modern NFL era and how they are utilizing those two. I think is really interesting. I'm really curious to see how they work together because this is a position that has kind of fluctuated in three years time. And there have been a ton of different guys who have had the green dot. So what is this era of linebackers at within Atlanta look like with Caden Ellis and Troy Anderson? And I think you look at them and you know how fast they are. They can go sideline to sideline with the best. Arthur Smith said, and I quote, that Troy Anderson can run with just about any running back in the league. And that's saying something and it's not wrong. And I think that because if you look at how the Saints had it, uh, DiMario Davis, big dude, right? Right. But I think you have with Troy Anderson who we saw come forward and generate pressure a little bit under Dean Pease last year, kind of a little like a, like a, like puppy that's out of control, you know? And I mean, in the nicest way. I think we said like a golden retriever. Like I have, my family has a golden retriever who's like one years old. And I always like think in my head, I'm like, Troy Anderson is really like bogey, which is the name of our golden retriever. But I also think that that's a positive because he has the traits to attack and go forward. He just has to learn how to do that. But I think that Caden Ellis, seven sacks from the linebacker spot, he, he can obviously do that. I'm fascinated to see how Ryan Nielsen is going to use Caden Ellis, but I just, as I'm talking through this, as I'm externally processing, uh, that Ryan Nielsen can probably do the Caden Ellis stuff with Troy Anderson and vice versa. So with the speed that we've seen, it's going to allow the defense to do a number of different things. Number three, another classic Tori McElaney thing that she learned something about Jesse Bates. Yeah, Scott goes, what do we think our third thing is? And I was like, just say something about Jesse Bates. And I think that that's fair because we've seen this kind of incalculable, that's not a word, this, this hard to define thing about Jesse Bates where he just, he just has so much confidence in the back. He's coordinating things well. He's never in the wrong spot. He's just one of those guys where he's been in the scheme for like five seconds or something and he just seems to get it. And he's one of those guys where you need a captain in the back and he is a captain in the back. And I think that he's one of those guys, look, if you go and you pay that type of money for a guy who's 26, Ryan Nielsen talked a lot about not only Jesse Bates like that dude, but he's been there before. So he can help show us the way is another important thing. So you can see that kind of that captaincy from the back already, even at this kind of stage before we even get to training here. Something that's really interesting, if you would have told me in February that the Falcons were going to spend the money that they did in free agency on a safety, safety, I would have told you, you're absolutely insane. You're insane. Why would they do that? Like that would have been my thought process. But now here we are in the summer. Jesse Bates has been here for months at this point. And I think it's one of the biggest splashes that they could have made. And I think it tracks with something that let's go back even like when Dean Pease was here and even farther right when Arthur Smith first gets here. And it's like, everyone wants to talk about ed rush or ed rush or ed rush or in terms of generating a pass rush. They he said he was like, we have to really build from the inside out. And what did they go and do they went and got guy, they went and got interior guys. And that includes in the secondary with Jesse Bates. I mean, you think about just a shut down type of guy, you talk about being in the right place at the right time that goes towards his just I think like football IQ of having the anticipation and the instincts and the knowledge to be where he needs to be to make the play. You saw him do that time and time and time again with Cincinnati. It's why he has the the paycheck that he has right now. And I think like that that shouldn't go overlooked. And I think it's something that if this is February Tory talking and now July or August Tory is kind of like, just let this play out. Because he's he's something I think pretty special, especially when you group him with Jalen Hawkins and Ritchie Grant, which I'm really curious to see how that rotation kind of morphs out. And then you have him, you know, with AJ Terrell and Jeff Bacuda. I mean, just the secondary in general, what he can bring kind of like a trickle down effect because something that Terry Fauno said right when Jesse Bates first guy here was that Jesse Bates is a player that subtly makes everyone around him better. Right. Because of things that he does. And that I think is the something about Jesse Bates that we've learned is that you can already tell he's making everybody else better to your point just and you were kind of explaining it about building up the middle, building the four fortifying this this defense straight up. There are three biggest long term contracts were to defensive tackle David Onyamata, middle linebacker Kaden Ellis and safety Jesse Bates straight up. Yeah. And and that's how they're going to build it by having a foundation on the interior that's going to be tough to get through, which leads us to some of the questions that we have. And I'll say this about the questions because I don't want anyone to get this misconstrued is when we're saying like the questions that we have of these units, this isn't a bad thing. The fact that we have questions about, hey, how's this going to work out or anything? I don't want this to be taken as, oh, Tori and Scott. I think these guys suck. Yeah, that is not it. I don't want that to be misconstrued because these questions are for us to just kind of have something to look back on when we get to training camp to be like, oh, yeah, we answered that question. We know exactly how this is going to turn out. Right. And I think that that's fair and appropriate because we're going to talk about a super talented guy and Jeff Okuda, who had a good year last year and has had some injury troubles. Yeah. Right. They traded for this guy. Would they trade for him a seventh round pick? Yes. Yeah. So, right. So anyway, so they, so they have him and we've seen flashes at OTAs and minicamp of him and Drake London going straight up competitive at reps as you can get. And Jeff Okuda makes a play, right? And you can see the natural talent. Go back and watch this combine workout or Ohio State or even at times last year when he didn't have a bunch of picks, but his, his completion percentage against was pretty low. The pass rating against was, was, was pretty low. So, but the, but the question is what kind of Jeff Okuda are like, are we going to get? There's a really good player in there. Yeah. What are we going to see over the course of 17 games? Yeah. And that's, that's a big question, Mark. And I, I know I'm really excited to have Jeff Okuda and AJ Trill working together. I think, I mean, they've known each other for a minute. They've, I mean, they went through the combine process together. They knew each other in college, like being from two power houses of Ohio State and Clemson. I mean, and it's just really cool to see these two guys working in tangent with one another on opposite sides of the field. But for Jeff Okuda, and this is something I've brought up before, but the conversations that I've had with Jerry Gray about Jeff Okuda are very intriguing to me because I think Jerry Gray is really excited to get someone who's just so ready for a fresh start. And I think that's a good thing. I think sometimes a change of scenery, especially when you go through a coaching change, especially when you go through injuries, sometimes you just need to get into something new. And I feel that with Jeff Okuda when we talk to him and feeling that he's ready for whatever it is that comes next. And I, and that's the thing. When I say whatever it is that comes next, we don't know, like we're talking about like who, what Jeff Okuda are we going to see out there in 2023 for the Falcons? We don't know. And, but I know that Jerry, I can tell you what Jerry Gray wants to see. Jerry Gray wants to see the confident guy that came from Ohio State. That's what he wants to see. He wants to see the guy who came into the league at the top and felt it and was confident. And then the injuries happen and it kind of brings brings it down. He wants to get back up. He wants to get him back up where his confidence is. And I think that's something that goes overlooked with cornerbacks in general. The, more than almost any other position on the field, I feel like cornerbacks have to have this like very confident mindset because of how much they're on an island with these really talented receivers. And the fact that they're going to fail. Yeah. And, and you're gonna like, they're gonna get burned, you know, like, but they're also going to do some burn it. And so I think that like when you're Jerry Gray, you're wanting you're wanting to get Jeff Acuta to buy into himself again. And I think that is where, where we are. Can he do that? Can he get to that point? If we're five weeks into the season, are we seeing a really, really confident Jeff Acuta that's going out there and just playing with a lot of swag? Like, yeah, absolutely. You hope that if you're Jerry Gray, if you're the Falcons, if you're Jeff Acuta, but we don't know. We're not there yet. Right. But, and this is a small sample size, but when you get the fresh start, the weight of being the number three overall pick goes away a little bit, right? It's not just always there. Yeah. All the time. And the fact that you have AJ Trill on the other side of you, everybody, I think he's a number one. Yeah. And I think like you, you look at what he did in 21 and even 22. I mean, I know he was hurt for a little bit, but like, this is a guy who quarterbacks are well aware of where, where Grady Jared is on the field and where AJ Trill is on the field. And, and we saw that in 21 just because his targets were so low, guys were just not throwing his direction. So when you have that guy opposite you, kind of takes a load off and you can just be like, all right, I'm going to go play my game. I know he's got it on the other side of the field. I'll, I'll do what I can. Right. And so let's stick with the cornerbacks here, moving into the slot. Yeah. I don't know how many true position battles there are for starting spots. There were a lot more last year and the, and the year before slot cornerback, I think is one, right? Because you've got Mike Hughes, who they signed to a two year deal. He can play in the slot. The Falcons are very confident in that as another guy that Jerry guy, Jerry Gray really likes. D Alfred, who you've been asking a lot of questions about because he's had a really good spring. He has that there are some options in the slot and it will be interesting to see how that one plays up, but we still don't know. We don't know. I'm really excited about seeing what happens between D Alfred and Mike Hughes. They have very, very different like journeys to where they are. Mike Hughes was a first round draft pig. D offered had to kind of work his way up from XFL, right? Or CFL. CFL, sorry. CFL works his way up from the CFL. I mean, two completely different stories. They're now here in Atlanta battling it out for honestly two very two different roles because now that a unfortunately every Williams is out for the year with an ACL injury. The Falcons are looking for their next punt returner. You want to know who's competing for that D Alfred and Mike, Mike Hughes, right? Like they're competing for that. They're also competing at nickel. I'm so curious to see how that dynamic plays out in training camp because I think that you're exactly right. There aren't a lot of spots open. This is one and this is the most what I believe to be the most heated battle of training camp and I'm really excited to see it because both guys are coming at it from very, very different like angles in terms of a storyline. Yeah. And I just I get kind of giddy about it because you just love seeing this kind of thing. Yeah, because it's D Alfred, a CFL guy from a small college trying to prove himself and earn that spot that, you know, against all odds and then you have a former first round pick and Mike Hughes who's finally healthy and in a good system that similarly to Jeff Hakuta. Right. And he's trying to come in and prove himself. So two very different storylines. One very important position even if he's not a quote unquote starter. The group that we haven't talked that much about are the second year defenders and how they fit. We've talked a lot about this defensive front. We're talking about Grady Jarrett and a lot of new guys. Yeah. Arnold Ebecady still around. Yeah. D'Angelo Malone still involved here. Trey Anderson, we can't, can he be that three down guy? So let's me focus on those edge guys, right? For as much as it's a big defensive front, there is a Jack linebacker spot. As Arthur Smith says, like whatever the gurus want to call it. Whatever you want to call it. Right. But nonetheless, there is that kind of it's not always even weak side edge rusher, but like there's that edge rusher and where that Lorenzo Carter seems to be the guy for that spot. Where do you see Arnold Ebecady fitting in? This is a second round pick and D'Angelo, this is like this is a third round pick. They've been cross training a bit. Question mark is how do they fit in right to this defense with so many new pieces? Yeah. And I think we'll find out more when we do get into like putting the pads on and actually going a little bit more live and getting into joint practices and actually seeing a rotation with this front seven. I think we'll be able to answer that question in a little bit. That's why it's on here is like we will get to that point where we can answer this question. But I think just right now, after OTAs and after mini camp, I thought it was really interesting that there were a few times where it's like Bud Dupree, Lorenzo Carter, Grady and David on Yamada in the middle. And then AK just kind of like Roman a little bit. And I thought that was a really interesting group. And then AK comes off and like D'Alfred comes in for a nickel package. And then the twos go come on and it's like D'Angelo Malone also kind of Roman around a little bit. And D'Angelo Malone I think is somebody who I went into this after Ryan Nielsen was hired. And I was like, I don't know where he fits. I just don't because he you talk about hybrid players. He is one of those type of guys through and through. And I was like, I just don't know where he's going to fit even like AK. I don't know exactly what role he's going to play. We're kind of starting to see that they are, they are still playing a little bit of a hybrid role. And you talk about that Jack like linebacker type of role. D'Angelo Malone was doing quite a bit of that in OTAs and mini camp. And I'm excited to see more of what Ryan Nielsen is going to do with those two guys in terms of leaning into their skill set because their skill set is not the same as Bud DePri. It's not that really the same as Lorenzo Carter. They are different guys. And I know that Arnold Abba Katie, he's a second round pick. They went up in the second round to get him. So you're not just you're not going to not put him out there. So how do you lean into what his strength is and what happens when you do put Bud DePri and Lorenzo Carter out there and you have AK just kind of like roaming around. He said he left some money out on the field in 2020 2022. This is a guy who wants wants that bank. He wants to go out in 23 and prove that he can go out and get that money. And the money we're talking about is sacks. So how do you put him the best position to be that? That's a question mark. Yeah. And I think that's what good coaches do. I think some of them come in and they say, well, hey, that's not the body type for my system. I wasn't around when they drafted them. See ya. But it seems like that they're really trying to get creative with how they want to use this and how they can create pressure. So it's going to be fascinating to see a really intriguing defense kind of come together and build chemistry and morph over the course of the summer. So that's going to wrap it up for part two of our, I guess I called it summer school edition of Falcons Final Whistle. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Hope you guys are listening on a, you know, white sand beach or something like that. That's where Tori and I are going to be sure. And anyway, thank you guys so much. And we were going to, and we will be checking in with you quite often on Falcons Final Whistle throughout the course of training camp. So please rate review and subscribe. So you are getting all that content brought right to you. Thank you so much. And we will talk to you again real, soon. See ya.