 Good afternoon everyone perhaps we start it's 2 p.m. And I know it's very late where Mr. Fry is at the moment, so we should start If you all agree Welcome to this webinar organized by the global protection cluster you more engagement testing My name is a Roberto Serrentino and I will be your moderator today I'm here with the coaches of the human rights engagement testing Hi, Zaya Torotich from the world Lutheran Federation and the other co-chair is Elisa Gazzotti from Sogaga Kai International Before starting let me share a few housekeeping rules This webinar is recorded and will be uploaded in the global protection cluster YouTube channel I kindly ask you to mute your microphone throughout the whole event You can use the chat as you're doing already to share ideas reaction comments and questions and during the QA Q&A section you will also be able to raise your hand and ask a question or share your views and suggestions Now let's start Displacement in a time of changing climate as the title says Climate change is already impacting the places where we work and the communities we support It is exacerbating the vulnerabilities of people who were already displaced But also at the extreme climate events are displaced in more people across the globe as Protection actors we must see ourselves at the front and at the center of understanding how climate change and disasters are shaping the way we work The communities that we support and the responses needed to strengthen rights and advance the solutions in accordance with international law Today we have the honor with that we does Mr. Jan Frey the first special Rapporteur on the promotion and protection of human rights in the context of climate change He was appointed by the human rights council at its 49th session March 2022 and started his mandate on the first of May We will hear about the role of his mandate his vision and possibilities to engage with his newly established human rights mechanisms We also had the pleasure to have with us Mr. Andrew Harper special advisor on climate action at UNHCR Who will give us some opening remarks After we would like to hear from protection cluster Coordinators and the wider protection community that is with us today About the consequences of climate change on displaced communities the increased need for protection and the challenges faced Without further ado, Mr. Harper the floor is yours Thank you very much Roberta and nice to see you in I think I won't be going on for too long because I think it's super important to actually be listening to the people who are on Online today, but I would just like to say how important it is to have somebody Not just filling the role of the special repertoire on human rights and climate change, but to have somebody like Ian Because we need somebody who is Not necessarily from the system Who is not so bureaucratic and who is Can see what's actually happening on the ground and who can represent the human face of climate change But I think this is the big challenge for all of us Is to bring the voices of people who are being impacted To the fore and to the the policy makers and to the decision makers to make those changes Why UNHCR is so much engaged in this is because While there is no such thing as a climate refugee in in technical terms There's no doubt that climate change and disasters Are impacting The displacement or tens of millions of people and even in the last couple of years We've been looking at almost one displacement per second and if you look at trends And you say okay, is it likely to increase or decrease? It's obviously going to increase because The world is not Mitigating the emissions. We're not supporting adaptation or preparedness. We're not addressing loss and damage And so as a consequence unfortunately human rights situation Or tens of millions of people are going to be impacted negatively So we have to do whatever we can to amplify the voices of those people being impacted Work with communities to see how we can provide the best Pragmatic support to them not necessarily looking at multilateral changes or instruments, but look at what does what does Pragmatic human rights mean to those people on the ground As I was mentioning like 90% of the world's refugees originate From countries which are already being impacted by the climate emergency And have got the least capacity to adapt and it's a similar number as far as internally displaced So we're all very we're already very much on the front lines of all the of the climate emergency so We need to be looking at what are the human right human rights consequences for affected populations And what can we be looking to do to anticipate where these pressures will be coming to in the future? And why it's so important to be um listening and to be part of today's session Is that the the people who are on the line today are the ones who are Most knowledgeable and have the best linkages to those populations Whether it be in Somalia or the east one of africa or latin america or south asia or small island Developing states or in quick or increasingly in developed countries There's no there's no population which will not be impacted But our role is to certainly support and address those people who are most vulnerable and vulnerable and certainly from unhcr's perspective That's those people who have already been displaced by conflict because they often lack the capacity or They don't have the resources to adapt nor do their host communities So Super super enthused to be part of today's session. Look forward to listening And most importantly learning from each and every one of you. Thank you Roberto over Thank you so much Andrew And I will pass the floor to The human face of climate change mr. Young fry who will tell us about his mandate um his vision is Upcoming missions and reports, but also as andry was saying how we can Pragmatically speak about human rights to those who are affected and how we can amplify their voices This is very important. And as you know protection cluster and a protection the protection community as a very wide reach Especially in those countries that are already affected by the unitarian crisis And therefore we we play an important role as andry was saying in amplifying their voices and making sure From our side as protection actors with their concern our challenge to the special reporter So without further ado, uh, mr. Young fry, I will give you the floor and we are very happy to have you here and to hear from you Thank you so much Thank you very much for a better and uh, thank you andrew Just to give you a quick background about myself Before taking on this job job as special rapporteur. I work for the tuvalu government Uh small pacific island country Which is really at the forefront of climate change impacts The highest point above sea level for the entire country is only four meters So i've i've been actively engaged with climate change negotiations for many years Uh, you know representing the government at tuvalu at those meetings So taking on this role as special rapporteur Uh, I was the mandate that was created for me last year is quite broad. It covers Pretty much, you know to look at all issues Uh associated with human rights and climate change And and to reflect upon those and particularly, you know looking at people in vulnerable situations As a consequence of climate change So I I presented my first report to the human rights council In june this year and basically gave an overview of the thematic areas that I want to to look at So I identified six key thematic areas and I'll quickly run through those Because not all of them are sort of relevant to your work, but it's useful to Consider these in context So the first thematic area, uh, which I will be reporting to the un general assembly in october relates to the sort of functionality of Climate change issues and and that's primarily looking at mitigation. So that's you know, what what actions Are, you know, the lack of action on reducing emissions and how that's having an impact on climate change Looking particularly at the issue of loss and damage So this is the costs and damage that people are suffering as a consequence of climate change And then finally looking at sort of participation issues particularly around, uh, you know, climate rights holders And their participation in the debate around these issues on climate change and also around human rights defenders and And particularly indigenous peoples associated with defending their rights As a consequence of climate change. So that's the first one. The second one is probably The most connected to your to your mandates and and issues is looking at climate change displacement And I'll I'll go into a bit more detail about that in a moment The third one is looking at sort of climate change legislation litigation So this is looking at where governments have implemented climate change legislation And seeing whether they've they've put a human rights aspect into that legislation Certainly there we are seeing a number of cases coming up on climate change litigation Against companies against countries. There are youth groups doing that sort of work So I I'll be looking at that Seeing where how I can contribute to that sort of role And I'm particularly interested in in this issue of intergenerational justice. So it's giving protection to future generations In in in legal systems that we have now and also looking at the issue of access to courts We know that there are various youth groups that who have participated in some court systems Some have been able to get access to courts. Some haven't so we're I'm I'm going to be looking at that as as an issue as well The next one is the responsibility of business And it's responsibility as far as human rights and climate change Particularly around the issue of disclosure, you know, where are companies investing their money? Are they investing it in fossil fuels? And so forth and and trying to tease out where where those sort of technologies apply You know where where where their investment supply and and seeing whether we can, you know Bring bring that to the fore particularly, you know, there are a lot of financial institutions like pension funds Superannuation funds that are investing in fossil fuel industries The next one looks at just transition So this is primarily looking at people who may be employed in the fossil fuel industry Who as as countries? And communities move towards a more green economy Can we give a proper human rights protection to the people who who will be Transforming to this green economies to make sure that nobody is left behind So that's workers in the fossil fuel industry their families their communities How do we give protection to them and make sure that they're part of this transition to a green economy? And finally, I'm going to be looking at new technologies and this This is interesting area where where there is a view that, you know Under our current scenarios and climate change We're not going to stabilize at 1.5 degrees Celsius. And so there are proposals for rather drastic measures to to deal with The the heating of the atmosphere and that these are, you know, sort of broadly come under the definition geoengineering So this is atmospheric injection cloud brightening and and various sorts of meteorological changes that could be take place And of course that there will be winners and losers in that sort of technology And so I want to look at the human rights aspects of that. So they're the six six broad Areas that I've been looking at And and to come back to the one that's most relevant is the issue of climate change displacement And one of the issues that that has come out in in, you know, preliminary looking at this is that You know, as Andrew indicated, there are people displaced across international borders as a consequence of climate change We know that's happening already And and those people are not defined as refugees under the UN Refugee Convention Um, and therefore they fall through the cracks with legal protection And that was revealed in a case where um, a Kiribati couple Went to New Zealand and sought refuge climate change refugee status In a court this is known as the TTO to a court case And they were denied climate change Refugee status because there is no such thing So I'm I want to look at this sort of the these sort of legal aspects of of people displaced internally displaced And across international borders what sort of level of protection is given to those people and we know that there are The Kampala guidelines for for dealing with internally displaced people But they're just guidelines. So I want to see how well those guidelines are being implemented if at all And what sort of, you know, our country is developing national legislation to implement those guidelines And then what is needed to, you know, legally give protection to people Displaced across international borders. So I uh, we've just recently employed a consultant to look at that Who's a lawyer from Mexico? Uh, and and she's going to be looking at some of these legal issues and we've given her a series of sort of Questions to ask about legal protections We know there's the Nancy initiative, which was a which was sort of looking at Migration and displacement issues again. These are only guidelines And they're not legally binding So the these are sort of the questions that I I want to look at is how how can we enshrine You know human rights protections for people who are displaced as a consequence of climate change And as we know there are people clearly being displaced As a consequence of climate change So Yeah, it would be very helpful, you know in part of what I'm doing is is to connect with you You're the people on the ground. You're seeing what's going on in the on the ground And and to get any sort of case studies from you about uh, you know identifying people that are Displaced as a consequence of climate change That this also links to this issue of loss and damage that I'm looking at You know, we know that people are suffering You know huge costs as a consequence of climate change from flat floods from droughts From various impacts that and they are suffering enormous losses and and there was a recent You know, there's been recent estimates by oxfam Around the costs of the impacts of climate change on various communities So is there a way of finding the right form of protect, you know to give compensation to people Who are you know affected by climate change and clearly, you know, we've got to look at are there sort of certain Compensation measures for people who are displaced as well and what initiatives could be developed Of course, there's also the issue of adaptation, you know, can we on the ground prevent develop adaptation measures to prevent people from being displaced and certainly again, you know You're the people on the ground who can you know are aware of those sorts of initiatives and I I'd I'd certainly Want to uh to know about those I guess and and you know exchange ideas and views about those sorts of initiatives I will be take doing some country visits as part of my work. I'm I'm currently Negotiating to go to Bangladesh Uh, I I've just been well, we've I've been working on going there in september, but that may not happen um, but certainly What we'll be going to bangladesh At some stage this year I'm looking at sort of wanting to look at the dry corridor issues in in Central america because we know there's a lot of people displaced for a variety of reasons obviously Um, you know, there are people there for security reasons, but there clearly are people displaced Uh across borders as a consequence of climate change and I had a recent call for submissions around the loss and damage And we heard, you know, we got submissions from people from NGOs in latin america saying, you know People are clearly being displaced as a consequence of climate change So we you know, I I I would certainly want to reach out to you that there's clearly two aspects of this, you know People are displaced by, you know Severe events that are happening now. So that's floods But there's also the issue of what we call slow onset events And no doubt you're aware of those issues of the slow Climatic changes that that that are driving people away from their from their land. So this is droughts Though droughts can happen quickly, but the slow Progressive droughts are one of those sea level rises another Uh, that that's a critical issue that I want to be looking at. So we've got this, you know Rapid displacement of people and then we've got what we call slow onset events as well And and the consequences of those are quite significant So that that's where I stand in in this issue and I I certainly Want, you know, if you're aware of the sort of events going on, you know If there's any way that I can help and collaborate Put out communications about circumstances that you're aware of that might help You know present the circumstances that you're aware of To the international community. I I'm more than happy to help out, you know, through through various forms of communications so If if there's any way that I I can help with what you're doing on the ground I I'm more than happy to to collaborate there So that's just a sort of very quick overview of where I'm at at this moment and More than happy to take any questions. Thank you Thank you so much. Mr. Fry for this very interesting overview of your mandate and upcoming activities I would like now to to open the floor to all protection cluster coordinators that are connected in the wider protection community Perhaps we could start with the protection cluster co-coordinator in Ethiopia alone to come in Um, and he could uh, he could tell you about the challenges that they are facing in Ethiopia But also the kind of support that they need as you were asking mr. Fry because this is an excellent opportunity to to exchange on how we can better support your work and on the other hand How you can also better support our work and strengthen the protection of those were most affected So alon are you online? If you want to come in, please come in. Yes. Thank thank you, roberta And thank you, uh, mr. Fry as well Um, I think it was interesting to hear this. I would say um, government focused approach and and the approach that obviously focused on the government responsibility to protect and to uh, to provide access to essential services, but I think Uh, uh, most of the clusters here will will obviously We know more about the humanitarian response about the response of the humanitarian community and um, in most cases at least in Ethiopia, obviously I mean, we do have an issue and a challenge an ongoing challenge to actually mobilize um, the government, uh, you know to kind of like, uh Fulfill its obligations, uh, especially, uh in the context of of climate change and for instance in Ethiopia I mean we have now, um, I would say four consecutive failing, uh, seasons of of rain Um, so nothing in a way. It's it's not predictable, but at the and and it's not in it's it's not in any way a failed state um, but the situation is considered as an emergency as a situation that is, um To be solved or mainly solved by the international community and donors rather than, uh By by the government, uh by the government authorities So with that maybe just, uh, I want to highlight maybe, um, a couple of challenges um First, I think there's a challenge of data collection. I mean you you we were talking a lot about displacement So I mean displacement, of course we can Maybe monitor better, uh, not, you know, in a perfect way, but when we're talking about protection concerns mainly, um negative, uh coping mechanisms, we see an increase in child labor in in child marriage uh survival sex, um Begging all this kind of stuff. I mean we really have a um While all of these coping mechanisms are observed We actually don't really we cannot really say something about an increase because we don't necessarily have the baseline and we don't necessarily collect this, um Data on a regular basis Another issue is inter-communal violence You know because of competition over resources. This is maybe something that we can do a little better in terms of of noticing this trends But as a whole, um data collection is a challenge Another challenge is for us. What exactly is the added value of protection? um, and I'm talking maybe Not about the whole I would say range of human rights, but more about exposure to violence to exploitation to neglect I mean if other sectors are already providing assistance Such as health food nutrition water. What is the exact? What is the exact added value of of the protection cluster? um And maybe the third one and you mentioned also the the combination of climate change and conflict And this goes back to the government responsibility. Have we really reconciled? um, the response with humanitarian principles when the government for instance does not give us access um to conflict areas Or try to dictate to us. Okay, you can Respond here and obviously, you know spend a lot of money in drought affected areas But you cannot do the same in conflict areas uh affected areas. So I think for us, it's also a dilemma um, you know how we can really um Work together with government and together with other partners for instance development partners uh in drought affected areas, but Do not I would say Overlooked conflict affected areas notice that in many cases You know some areas are are affected both by conflict and uh Climate change and and the displacement the result of displacement. So um, thanks for this Thank you so much. Uh, Alan perhaps, uh, we can We can ask Sabrina protection cluster coordinator in Mali to come in and then we can let the special reporter reply to this first round of questions and comments and then we can keep gathering Other questions and views Sabrina You have the floor. Thank you Good afternoon, mr. Mr. Fry Um, so in Mali it's quite complicated, especially these days because it the the malian crisis. It's a bit like The sociological question of the chicken and egg. So um, as you know, Mali is is really like We talk a lot about multi-dimensional crisis Because we have indeed all these question of Of climate that are frequently Coming up on the table because we have like a lot of displacement connected to To drought but also to flooding, etc I mean listening to uh to to mr. Fry it was indeed quite interesting to see How we we need to Uh to to approach this question with government, but I think it's like really For us what we see like in Mali it's how we can better approach it like but from both sides with community, uh in order to um to better impact the changes Um of behaviors, etc, but indeed also we need they there are a lot of work That need to be done From legal point of view in Mali, etc, where This question of Of climate change is Often coming in the discussions with the government, etc But it's quite difficult to to see how we can have it in more operational way to to make it like more concrete How we should translate it to try to mitigate The the current situation so, um in Mali, um The we have Historically, um the the question of um of Climate, etc. It's uh very present because um All the activities the main livelihood activities um are depending on um on land on I mean the the the the main activities are agriculture and livestock So, uh, they are complete completely depending on climatic conditions And we know also that uh these activities are Frequently fragilized by climate change um now Since the crisis, uh, we are facing uh now since 10 years um, it's also increasing because um We know that uh, we don't have necessarily uh control on on the the forced displacement of Of the the values communities Across the countries, but what we have is um More and more pressure on um some Sources but also pressure on land, etc. And in Mali, uh, it's uh quite complicated because Historically there is already an issue on land and property So, uh, so so the the conflict is really Coming and Crystallizing a bit, uh all these tensions We what we what we can see so it was interesting to hear From uh the colleague in Ethiopia that we don't have like clear data on how The situation is completely is impacting directly on um on people But what we see is for example like last Last april the nutrition cluster released an advocacy note showing uh that there is around 1.2 million individuals who were facing a food crisis And um, it was also interesting to see that there is a clear increase around like 70 percent of our woman And 70 percent of Of these women Were mainly household So, um the the region that are impacted are also the the region that are really under stress because of climate Change like the Lipta Kogurma Which is one of the most affected uh area By the conflict but also the center um where the situation Is also deteriorating and the not um close to team book two and the and gao um When we discuss with the communities they they clearly said that because they don't they are not able to To have any food stock because they are not able to um Uh to to harvest properly, etc Um They are obliged also to develop like a copying mechanism and if we discuss like for example with the different Aor like child protection or gbb what we see is because of these Movement of of population that we have After natural disasters um there is Potentially a connection with like An increase of situation of copying mechanism in some areas for example in gao Strangely where we had when we had like an increase of First displacement after some flooding after a few months we we could See an increase of First prostitution In the different areas of gao We have also an increase of first recruitment in armed group where even if the If the children when they are interviewed are not clearly saying it's because of um Of the the lack of harvest, etc. They were obliged to move um What we see is The the the common response they are providing We need uh to sustain the need of our family because we are not able to have like our traditional activities um It can be uh for for pastoral activities or for agricultural activities. So basically Even if we are not monitoring um specifically the linkage between um like the climate impact and the consequences on unaffected communities we can see that there is a clear trend and I think it's also for this reason that um the humanitarian coordinator asked us a few months ago also to um to try to provide like more information and impact of climate changes and peace and security in mali and also What are the actions that we are building currently? To to mitigate the situation the problem is like As humanitarian we are also facing a lot of challenges in the sense that Indeed we have like more project and social cohesion built around how the community can better manage the water sources to prevent tension Or also, uh, how to better sensitize girls and boys on the risk of climate change trailing on prevention of natural disasters, etc. But I think um if we want really to to have like A more serious impact especially in a context like the Sahel in general We need uh to to approach it on more programmatic way in addition also to to have like more structured and and maybe more focused discussion with the government on how this should be systematically integrated for example In uh in all the the the policy That are in place but also we have like discussions on the durable solutions and And the law on protection of displaced persons. So it's something that we should also integrate as well So, I don't know if Is any question Thank you so much Sabrina and perhaps I would let the special report through reply. I think there were some um common issues Mentioned by both Alon and and Sabrina the rise of uh negative copy mechanism And and the lack of a programmatic approach of of climate change Um, mr. Fry and there was also a very important question that was asking Alon actually What's the role of the protection actors when we know that as gbv Our responsibility to have a specific role and they will have specific activities And all the other a you are uh that will have also a role to play But when it comes to the wider protection community, what would be the role as Alon was asking? I think this is also a good occasion to To stress the importance of protection actors to to to fill the gap and promote the human rights of affected communities But I will let you speak more about Uh, the human rights consequences of climate change. What do you suggest to do in in the two context that were Uh mentioned. Thank you Thank you very much and and and thank you Alon and Sabrina for for giving those sort of Very good examples of the situation I I I do admit that, you know My focus is primarily looking at sort of legislative Changes that governments can employ but it clearly, uh, you know, if there are other approaches How to effectively mobilise the humanitarian response, you know as we know that You know, it's humanitarian response It can be very ad hoc in in its approach, you know, it it identifies an issue money is thrown at it and then you know, uh Money moves away somewhere else and and is is there more a systematic approach to deal with with these with these issues and and and particularly sort of This sort of connects with the loss and damage aspect is is Is there that does it need to be a whole new pool of finance? supporting Loss and damage as a consequence of climate change and are there Innovative sources of finance that are connected to the the greenhouse gas producers. I guess so this is, you know Looking at levies on aviation maritime transport these sorts of new ways of gaining finance rather than just relying on on, you know, you know humanitarian finance from from from various humanitarian organisations and from governments and look at alternative sources of funding the issue of challenging data collection is is Is a real challenge and and you know getting the evidence, you know to present to You know that that these are issues Is is critical and if there are any ways that we can You know, my mandate can help in in sort of trying to support data collection Please let me know I clearly there are connections as both Alan and Sabrina has indicated of consequences of climate change and and and Subsequent human rights impacts and the the special rapporteur on violence against women Is is also looking at this issue of climate change because we know You know, there are situations where because women have to walk longer distances to collect water And and are displaced from their their own territories or that because of loss of income That their husbands have to move to cities and therefore they're left in isolated situations that they put in a situations where You know, they're they're subject to harassment and violence and and as as indicated, you know, forced into situations of prostitution as alternative incomes and you know as as And you know children being put into situations where they have to You know be forced into Into armed groups So there are a whole lot of complexities here and and you know teasing out those and identifying which ones are climate change related Is a challenge But but I think we're starting to get a clearer picture of of clearly the impacts of climate change Even looking at the nutritional ones that the intergovernmental panel on climate change is saying That a warmer and more co2 in the atmosphere makes plants grow quicker because plants grow on carbon dioxide But what what the effect that's having is that that a faster growing plants Are are not picking up the same nutrients That's slower growing plants and this this is going to have an impact on nutrition particularly for grain crops So that there's you know another sort of consequence there not only because of these the of droughts and circumstances like that But just you know the factor that there is increased co2 in the atmosphere Is will have an effect on the nutritional value of grain crops and there's been studies to look at that And it's affecting in africa so, you know Is there a need for a more programmatic approach to this? Clearly there has to be but of course, you know, we're dealing with least developed countries Whose governments don't have the resources to to to deal with those issues and you know I've you know worked as part of my work with tovalu with the least developed countries in climate change negotiations You know and that includes mali and ethiopia in all these countries So, you know, these are the challenges these countries have Is is what i'm trying to sort of draw attention to is the fact that the impacts Of the on these on the populations is not of the making of those countries The impacts are coming from outside Through the major industrialized countries So there is a responsibility By those major industrialized countries to assist those the countries to help on the ground And finally just this connection between the sort of security issues climate change And this this has been you know picked up previously in the security council. I know the german government brought on some work on Looking at the sahel region and got a resolution out of the security council. I recently had a meeting with the ambassador from Where was it I'll think of it in a moment, but basically The the security count Security council looks like they'll pick up again on some of these climate change issues. So These are, you know, again these sorts of challenges that Sorry, it was malta the ambassador from malta and he and they've just become non-permanent representatives on the security council So they they want to have a look at this issue in particular so, you know, uh, there are lots of complex issues To work through I guess and we're just trying to find, you know, the connections that uh, that, you know, can You know get the experience that you have on the ground and bring them to the international community Thank you Thank you so much. Mr. Fry first of all for highlighting The gender dimensional climate change, which is also very important And then also for stressing that indeed the countries were most affected by the consequences of climate change Are those who actually contributed the least? to to climate change um I saw that there were some questions in the chat, but first of all, I want to ask if someone wants to come in and raise their hand um Yes, uh Bazema, please come in. Thank you. Um, yes. Good afternoon. Um I thank you very much for for this insightful Um presentation Um in the um, I am basemically mushy. I'm the senior operations coordinator in the regional bureau UNHCR Nairobi and um first of all, this is uh, the the topic that you just introduced on justice or climate justice is is very Very good. I think it is really pushing in the right direction Um, Andrew has been educating us on the issue of climate change and climate action and we are very much The appreciative of all the insights that have been shared so far And I think this specific one is is is very important. First of all The one of the challenges now that I would like to highlight here is that this issue of climate justice as it might as it as it will or it does refer to uh persons of concern to UNHCR is going to be even more complex than the issues related to um conflict um Because when we talk about persons of concern as a result of conflict We we can we can very much make a difference between the local citizens of the local residents And anyone who has crossed the border and who is in that space as a result of the conflict and the fear of uh for their lives In their countries now This situation is going to be even more complex because you cannot even distinguish if as if persons of concern have lost their their their food stocks because of floods They've lost their their their livestock livelihoods because of floods for example Or they have no food to eat because of drought uh the issue of Not only of persons of concern is important here But also the host communities because they will be equally affected And any assistance to what Are we referred to as persons of concern if that assistance is not extended to the host community? That is affecting the protection space. It's going to affect the peaceful coexistence It's going to affect the attitude not only of the population, but also even the government itself So from that perspective, it's it's really going to be very tough. So Now the element of justice is is uh is also equally important in the sense that Uh, I think you it it um It sort of touches on the element or the notion of externalities Uh developing countries where we have most of our work done Um where we have most of the people some of concern Whether they are suffering because of the effect of drought or because of the effects of of floods And other climate related hazards They are suffering Because of externalities of production appetites production ways And you mentioned the appetite for fossil fuel fossil fuel for example This is a as a result of behaviors and the economic mindset of industrialized countries So now this element of justice should really focus on the element of externality And also for the donors to prioritize Because there are another question is for donors to act to to prioritize um Donorship or They are funding To not only address effects of war and conflict But also the effect of climate change Uh And I think for the time being as To the extent to which we are being educated I think donors likewise probably also need to be educated to see things from that perspective Uh Governments The reference was made to to governments. I think this is also an area where Governments likewise need to be further supported Further supported In the sense that I think there is still need for A lot of diplomacy in the concept in the area of Awareness raising Because generally when we when we when we have issues such as droughts such as floods and things like that Yes, we see the effects with the with the effects and we tend to rush to To look at how to address the symptoms To distribute food to distribute blankets and so on but I think uh Awareness raising has to be also done in the Direction of causes what I what is causing this effect in the old country And what your can your government do? To prevent this from happening in the future Because we can distribute food today, but if the land has been degraded That will not solve the problem And it's even more acute than conflict really because I think when when we talk about conflict We sometimes we think about repatriation Because once this situation has improved back home, we can send The the refugees back home, but in this situation if it is because Of deforestation because of land degradation because of temperature rising as an This is not going to be something that is going to to stop So people need a new way of living and use space to live And here may be issues like Agricultural smart agriculture is going to be maybe the solutions. So it's looking at the causes educating Governments donors on the causes, but also on what needs to be done So that's to now immediately And also in the long term which also hinges on The intergenerational justice that That you you mentioned And the issues of technology and things like that. So these are some of the ideas that I would like to share with you here Thank you Hello, I can't I can't hear you Sorry, sorry. I was muted. Yes. And I was saying and Mr. Frey Do you want to reply now or shall we collect two more questions perhaps and then you will reply? What would you prefer? I'll just a quick response about semi because he's made some very good points Obviously, you're the where of the situation In Somalia and people displaced across and and the point about you know, the the the recipient country You know and how to give you know proper protections for those countries and and support to those countries is a critical part of the discussion And I think that's that's important and the issue of externalities You know the the countries who are responsible for this climate change have to understand their responsibility And and to step up and and in in currently in climate change negotiations We're getting a lot of denial around that area And that's certainly one of the issues that I I want to bring forward is you know, the responsibility of the producers of greenhouse gases to to these issues that are confronting countries now Thank you Thank you so much. Mr. Frey. I will now give the floor to Ryan Ryan Mitra and then Ursula Thank you so much So I'm from the Norwegian Refugee Council humanitarian policy division in Geneva and I'm also doing a PhD on climate displacement in the Pacific So The NRC recently launched a project on climate crisis displacement and housing land and property As a nexus point between the development and humanitarian sector. So I was wondering whether Whether your mandate will sort of be looking at at the nexus of these issues on particular key factors such as let's say Voluntary and involuntary mobility in the context of climate displacement Then you're in security and forced eviction in IDP camps post evictions Through development projects that have adopted a rhetoric of greening and environmental protection And the last would be in regards to adaptive adaptive housing practices sort of emerging due to climate change And in the interest of protecting human rights are related to housing land and property Thank you so much Ryan Uh, Mr. Frey Yes, thank thank you for those questions I mean all of those issues are interconnected and and and part of the sort of bigger picture that we have to look at um and and critically, you know One of the issues that we're seeing as well is that people who are Uh displaced and are put in refugee camps are also suffering the impacts of climate change When they're in refugee camps and we're we're seeing that with the Rohinga population in Bangladesh who have suffered from floods And and some of the refugee populations in the Middle East who are suffering from extreme heat exposure And so there are that sort of double double issue that they're confronted with they may be displaced as a consequence of climate change And when they're put into sort of refugee camps, they're also suffering climate change impacts So, you know, they're they're some of these other issues around, uh, you know, voluntary and involuntary Displacement are part of the issues, you know, and there's discussion about whether migration can be an adaptation strategy or not And and certainly there's discussions around that issue as well. Thank you Thank you so much. Mr. Frey and there was Ursula who would like to come in Please Ursula Thank you so much. Good afternoon Just to highlight a little bit our context here in southern Africa region Where we have eight countries most vulnerable to climate change Especially Angola DRC Madagascar Mozambique also From the data we collected between 2010 and 2019 We estimated an average of 500 000 displacement per year due to climate change and disaster And in our region frequent, uh, climate related disaster are drought and high temperature Especially Madagascar and Mozambique Leading to the loss of crops and livestock, but also severe food crisis A tropical cycle Mozambique very recent Malawi and Zimbabwe leading to this to the destruction of property loveliness and with an increased poverty I don't know where to put volcano eruption impact in DRC in the discussion Knowing that more than 300 Thousand people flee their home in Goma and surrounding area according to Ocha estimate So here in the region we have a mix of slow and set disaster and rapid On set disaster also in terms of way forward. We are considering the following Working on the perception that population have of climate change which seems Totally inevitable or without solution for communities So raising awareness is very key but also engaging states in the implementation of policy Dealing with the climate issues The second way forward is addressing data gaps You have mentioned several times through the collection of disaggregated data To better understand the impact but also key protection issues we should address in priority With national authorities and other relevance stakeholder We are thinking also about scaling up adaptation financing and support climate action in countries And host community areas where displaced people take refuge or hope to safely return to the following To following their displacement by strengthening preparedness and building resilience to climate impact and As a as a last way forward the cooperation international cooperation with states But also regional bodies such as SADEC here in southern african region to to strengthen national legislation and mechanisms to address climate change And natural disaster issues But also to ensure protection Of all those displaced in the context of climate change and just for your information We'll jointly organize this week with the center for human right here in pretoria webinar on climate change inducing displacement with some important speakers from the region and elsewhere. Thank you over Thank you so much Ursula and now Um Hugo the protection cluster coordinator from mozambique. We'd like to come in Hugo Yes. Thank you very much. Roberta. Can you hear me just making sure I'm Yes, we can and very nice to meet you Mr. Fry I'm Hugo Reichenberger as mentioned by robert. I'm the protectionist coordinator in mozambique So I come in very nicely after Ursula who's representing a UNICEF at the regional level So allow me to maybe zoom in a little bit on mozambique. I think Everyone remembers The edai cyclone in 2019 march, right and and the incredible destruction that it caused in mozambique This was really, you know, one of the worst cyclones in african history and it really caused You know devastating impact Displacement of half a million people and it has left Some 90,000 still displaced in the facto camps until today But I'm not here necessarily to speak about edai. I'm here to speak about the story Of a country that had in the past seen a cyclone every 15 years Every 10 years every five years and now essentially we are seeing cyclones on a yearly basis And until I had arrived in 2020 We had, you know, a good strong cyclone a year But what we saw this year is we we saw at least three to four Cyclones that have caused some sort of displacement some sort of impact On the on the population living near the coast And the reason I mentioned displacement is that The protection cluster and the whole cluster system in fact was born out of the edai Cyclone system and it kind of remained active or the facto active in mozambique until today And as you know has been responding to a conflict in the north But it's also responding, you know stretching itself and responding to Cyclone displacement mostly happening in the central part of mozambique But this year surprising us and hitting also in the northern part of mozambique I guess what I want to add to what Ursula very well Explained is that from the edai cyclone the national institution dealing with displacement and You know the impacts of climate change ingd has really Come a long way In mozambique. It really learned from edai. It learned from a cyclone called eluiz last year And it's continuously learning what what we observe as a protection cluster and also my my units are colleagues Is that it's a diamond that has to be polished, right? Cyclone response is still very much seen as an operational matter, right? Let's move people. Let's let's you know, let's dump food. Let's relocate them quickly Wherever they we we believe will be safer for them But what we've seen is that there's a big lack of of course protection mainstreaming, which is a pillar of of protection clusters work here in mozambique And also of course Involvement and engagement of the community So we've been working on on the operational side as a cluster With as you know, the cluster is a is a forum right of different partners different geo partners So we are normally the ones on the ground first whenever cyclone hits Visiting evacuation centers transit centers Doing protection mainstreaming 101, you know making sure Basic things such as toilets are separated. There's separate sleeping quarters for men and women Um, there's lighting in communal areas very basic stuff really But we're also on the other hand number two Making sure the ingd can appropriate itself Of these protection elements in its response But also understanding this displacement Also from a human rights perspective, right? Because at the moment they do a fantastic job and I don't want to be uh overly critical as a protection colleagues normally are Right? But there there really is that element of protection mainstreaming protection integration That is missing in that response. So I just wanted to make my intervention very Short and um make sure that mozambique was also on your on your list. Mr. Fry very nice to meet you back to you, Roberta Thank you so much. Hugo for Highlighting these very important points and and importance on protection mainstreaming exactly that the protection cluster can play I see uh, uh, mr. Fry if you want to come in because otherwise there is nishani that also wants to come in Do you want to reply share your views and then we continue with the questions? Maybe I can come in on the the southern africa situation as a group and uh, it's uh It was the first country I approached to to do a country visit was mozambique because of because of the uh, the You know cyclone edi and and and I've also approached madagascar and and what we're seeing is this sort of sequence of drought then severe weather events and and uh, We've seen that in south sudan as well where they they suffered a drought and now they're suffering flooding And you know, we we you're obviously aware of all the impacts that uh, edi's occurred, you know I think there are 500 schools were destroyed as a consequence of that and so there are all sorts of flow on educational effects and and so Yeah, the issue issue around You know, how do we, you know Create sort of mainstreaming of protection. How do we build? Better resilience is a critical issue and how how do we support that, you know, and and call for Better resilience building at at the international level to support these countries will be critical So, uh, yes, I it's certainly on my radar screen. Thank you Thank you so much. Mr. Fry and if any you wants to come in you want to come in Hi Hi, my name is nishani. I'm uh with an NGO humanitarian NGO network called ikva and we've got members all over the world Uh, you know over 160 countries and working in conflict context complex emergency context and I think my reflection is I agree with a lot of the uh, the comments Coming from all the colleagues of the complexities that we need to we have to work with and in the humanitarian sector What I see working with our NGO colleagues, especially we have not been very much looking at the rights approach The issues of climate change in in in that light if you could say it, of course, we're responding to to communities who are most vulnerable in conflict complex emergency context and fragile context where Other organizations are not there and I think that is the kind of the link that I I see very much for the humanitarian community Especially NGOs who are there where no other communities of human rights NGOs and organizations are not able to access populations, especially most vulnerable and in need and I think there's a real requirement to raise awareness among humanitarian NGOs and colleagues of the linkages between rights based approaches and the protection issues And humanitarian context and how we're responding and this is something that we are trying to do a little bit more and better, but it is it's not always easy when there's the humanitarian principles involved and there's attentions that we face But I think what we we need to really raise the bar in in in how we respond and how we're preparing not only communities, but also ourselves to be now Responding to impact so the whole conversation on loss and damage that we are not involved in as humanitarians We we are responding to emergencies, but we're not, you know We don't understand what does that loss and damage and and being part of that whole discourse It's because we are not talking the same language and we don't speak the same language So we're also doing a little bit more awareness on it And I think this is where my request to on the chat was is that I think it would be really important To brief some of these NGOs while humanitarian, especially the ones who are working in these Really areas where no one else is accessing them to to kind of raise awareness more on how can we engage? How can we engage in these mechanisms better? How can we provide more input and also take that back to the field take back that back to communities that we're working with To also raise awareness among them. What are their rights? Responsibilities and how can they also engage in these processes So I have shared already the Bangladesh Request, unfortunately, it's tomorrow is the deadline. So I'm not sure how many humanitarian NGOs are going to respond to that But it would be great to connect beforehand also before your visit so that we can connect you with our humanitarian NGO network that's already there. We have a very vibrant community active on the ground We have an NGO for that we support As equal to to kind of build that strength to do advocacy on various topics and themes and of course climate change and protection and displacement of course is one of them over things Thank you so much Anishani for these very insightful Inputs that you provided and the importance also as you were saying to to raise the bar and for protection actors To do more and to look more at the human rights consequences Of climate change. I don't see any other hand raised and let me see that chat is Anyone else wants to come in There is a question in the chat from Vera Will the special rapporteur also focus on specific human rights impacted by climate change And particularly interest in the stateless rights to national right to nationality and climate change Will the special rapporteur also do thematic reports to cover these kinds of aspects? I think special rapporteur already replied. I mean I like I will let you speak mr. Fry But climate change, you know, it's a cross-cutting issues. We touches upon so many different human rights So i'm not sure in the In your mandate, you will have the time and the capacity to address all the human rights issues But you can you can reply to this question. You have already presented your thematic priorities But please you can tell us more if you want to touch upon different human rights During your the tenure of your mandate Well, thank you. Just quickly to say thank you very much nishani and I think you've made a very strong point about, you know There may be You know need to improve the sort of communication with the humanitarian cluster. I think it is critical To understand the the sort of rights based aspects of here humanitarian responses and make that connection And I think that's an important area and but and to to respond to Vera Obviously, you know writes around nationality and Are critical and this is part of the issue. I want to look at you know as as You know People are being displaced are their consequences for for nationality And and and jurisdiction areas, you know, I read some Some recent papers where flooding has has affected people in their Their identity papers have been washed away. They've lost everything including their identity papers So that they become non persons, I guess legally So these these are sort of the issues that I'd certainly want to look at it You know, what what are the what are the measures that can can be brought into to give You know identity to people who may may have lost that as a consequence of climate change impacts Thank you. Mr. Fry They they're also asking like mariana and And and nishani also asked to share a call for inputs the call for inputs that you will issue for the upcoming reports in country visits And I and and I can ensure that the human rights engagement task team We share all call for inputs with the task team members And if there are other partners who would like to join the task team, you're more than welcome to write to us Perhaps mr. Fry just just a question. Are you planning to organize consultations with civil society because we spoke a lot about the importance of involving affected communities and also those grass root organization that are working closely with affected communities So I'm wondering if you're planning to organize regional consultations or consultation at the country level To hear more about the consequences of the human rights consequences of climate change on the ground Yes, thank you. Well, certainly within my country visits I uh, you know as I've made that sort of call for for submissions particularly on the visit to Bangladesh But I'm I'm exploring You know other forms of consultation as well. So I I was a couple of weeks ago the the Franciscans international organized a online hookup with people in in In Africa and then there was a another one for people in Asia Around looking at my mandate and those sorts of discussions So I'm I'm trying to you know have those as regularly as possible So that you know people from the ground can engage with me and and have those sorts of discussions So I'm I'll certainly be reaching out and so if you've got any contacts That would be useful, you know, please let me know Thank you so much. Mr. Fry. There is Sabrina from Mali protection cluster would like to come in Sabrina. Please come in Yeah, maybe one point that I didn't hear but that is quite relevant for us as humanitarian is How we we put it in the agenda of our discussions with the donors Because I think it's also something quite critical So if we look at for example in Mali what we see is that in general We don't have like a real flexibility With with the program that I implemented. So I think in a context where we have like Natural disasters and when we need to to shift from one location to another It can be also quite critical to to ensure that this aspect of Climate change and the impact that that we can have on social cohesion with the host community, etc Is is clearly also Take into account I think it will be good like to have like as a standard point in our advocacy with the donors because in general When we discuss about climate change is more like well, we need to to implement a project that is clearly focusing on On this aspect, but in what we need is like to have it like more as a bit mainstreamed in In all our activities. Thanks Mr. Fry do you want to reply? Do you have any suggestion on how we could better mainstream? Climate change in our donor requests, especially for for humanitarian actors on the ground Yes, I mean, this is a challenge you know of getting sort of broad approaches to To to fit all the connections around this I have you know in my past life Had problems with the issue of mainstreaming because because donors like to use that term to sort of to to sit so to repackage existing Development assistance and put a little tag on it being climate change So and and and within that sort of mainstreaming it's easy to do The the issue is is are we looking at we have to find new and additional finance over and above a development assistance that that comes You know generally To cover the climate change issue and that's that's that's the critical issue is you know Should we be looking at a whole lot of new finance? You know for countries that are affected by climate change Over and above their ODA and just re badging their existing Allocation to cover climate change issues because that certainly won't be enough So we we really have to push the donor community towards this Principle of you know polluter pays and of course that that's going to be a real challenge Thank you, mr. Fry. There is isabel who wants to come in isabel, please Yes, thank you. Thank you very much. My name is isabel michel and i'm working with UNHCR as a protection officer um Thanks a lot for the briefing and for the experience shared by colleagues and partners. I just wanted to highlight that UNHCR has engaged indeed with OHCHR. We recently had a webinar on this subject with the GPC Human Rights Engagement Team also together with the special reporter on the right of IDPs we've also Engaged with the special reporter on human on violence against women on climate change And there's a lot of things that I would like to highlight, but maybe I will focus on on Two points three points Maybe wanted to highlight the need to strengthen the capacities of Everybody including ourselves. We are learning every day in this field things are evolving a lot and and and very quickly and getting Together with partners and yourselves and people on the ground is really a long-term process and getting up to to pace as regards new publications Research reports from the IPCC new findings That's really a long-term effort and we we are really engaged And and please Partners if you have any need for support never hesitate to to to raise it to us. We're always there Another point litigation is an aspect that you highlighted mr. Fry in your in your statement. We're very pleased to hear that Case law is really Still a few years ago was quite limited. We see that it's really expanding and We have increasingly targeted Cases that we are looking at We we engaged a lot with colleagues working on a refugee status determination or working on country of origin information on how to put light on Yes, indeed the impacts of climate change on specific countries or areas, but Really specifically highlighting the link between these impacts and vulnerabilities of specific groups or communities and how they are being Differently affected This is very key for us to be able to provide protection. We're engaged a lot on on research and trying to build evidence On this link and the third point I'd like to highlight is research This is really a priority for you and each year in this field. We engage with colleagues in the regional Burus and in in all regions of the world and countries to really Get the information from the field but to link it with our reflection and to provide further guidance on How to fully apply existing instruments? We would be very very pleased to continue this discussion With a special reporter and all partners here. That's A burning issue and we are really all together to to work on this. Thanks a lot Thank you so much Isabel Mr. Frey, do you have some Final remarks? There is Isaiah. Isaiah, please come in and then we can go to we are running out of time So we can go to the conclusion Please Isaiah Thank you very much for for giving me the floor and thank you mr. Frey for for your time I have a couple of remarks and one of them is related to The great sense of ownership we have as NGOs for your mandate I work for lucerne world federation, which is an NGO that is both active in the climate change debate, but also a humanitarian actor in its own Respect and I think As as as you know this your mandate was one that we advocated for for quite a number of years And we're so glad that that it's on and we're so glad that you're on it One reflection that I have is related to What I would say that the missing Link within the UNF triple C conversation To human rights, I think over the years there's been a weakening of language related to human rights within The conference of the parties within the negotiations I I even dare say that there was almost like a systematic attempt to completely remove and purge Climate action human rights from climate action And I think it would be interesting to hear from your perspective Are knowing you well are knowing the work that you've done within the UNF triple C If if you think there will be an opportunity to to once again activate or Create some momentum for human rights conversation within The context of implementation of the paris agreement, but also within the framework convention And then the last question is related to what I consider As the biggest threat to human rights, and I think this is the the the the contradiction between climate crisis as it were And also the ambition that governments have in place to respond to it I think if we look at the IPC reports including the recent one and look at the trends in which climate action is being Implemented be it addressing loss and damage or providing climate finances or mitigation. It all falls short Of of what is required and I wonder whether within your mandate you've got Either within part of your priorities or your Action as you engage within this mandate the concept of revisiting climate action and ambition as a way of protecting human rights. Thank you very much Thank you very much. Iza. Yeah Mr. Fry, please over to you Muted you're muted Yes, thank you I just wanted to yes. Yeah, I just said over to you mr. Fry Thank you. Thank you isabel. Uh, I'm very much looking forward to collaboration There's only one of me as special rapporteur and so uh, uh, you know, I have to find the sort of really strategic measures Uh to to advance the mandate and I sort of picking up on that and what azair was saying He's absolutely right. I think I think there has been a sort of diminishing or missing link between human rights And and the climate change agenda Uh, certainly when I was working for the tovalu government I Was part of a group called friends of human rights and climate change and it was a struggle to get You know human rights. We we we got it into the paris agreement, but only in the preamble So, you know, it's not strongly there and I it'll certainly be part of my work to to Make that connection because of my background in in the climate change negotiations to elevate the issue of human rights And and you know just to try and find where where we can make those links strongly and so In and that's one of the issues that I'll be picking up in my report to the general assembly in october and and You know specifically the timing of that is before the next cop So to draw attention to the issue of you know the the issue of lack of mitigation action Leads to human rights impacts So that's one key message and and the other key message is the lack of action to to address loss and damage Is is you know a humanitarian crisis? That's confronting us all so the these are sort of two key messages that certainly I'll be bringing to the cop and and you know seek support of civil society In supporting those measures And I guess the final word is I want to thank everybody for their for their contributions It's been a very very useful discussion You know to hear the the situation on the ground the complexities That people are confronted with You know to define what is climate change and what are other impacts the connections between that You know climate change impacts human rights impacts against women children And and the connections with security issues are critical. So I'm extremely grateful for this This dialogue and hopefully we can have more. Thank you Thank you so much mr. Fry and indeed as you mentioned It's also very difficult from our side to summarize such a rich discussion We discussed about the human rights consequences of climate change and communities internal displacement and displacement across borders Which is leaving displaced communities in a sort of legal vacuum where they are not considered refugees according to international refugee law We discussed about negative copy mechanism the stronger impact of climate change on women and female headed household The challenge in data collection and how we can make industrialized countries responsible and accountable The importance of raising awareness with governments about also with owners The necessary to extend assistance to host communities to preserve a peaceful co-habitation between displaced communities and host communities and also we discussed sensibly about how climate change is across scouting issues which is which is touching touching upon several human rights issues I think Just to connect to what the special rapporteur just said and and to reconnect to what andry was saying at the beginning We we need to see the complementarity of our mandates. We have as protection actors and a special rapporteur and is Human rights mechanism We need to see how we can better amplify the voices of those who are most affected And this is where I think protection actor can play a bigger role when data is available because we discussed that There is a lack of data, but when data is available protection actors, which have such a wider mandate And they have the opportunity to gather so many information They can channel those information to the special rapporteur who could take action through Communications or like to influence the decision on where to go on a country mission or the decision of like what's included in a thematic report So this is where I see the protection actor can actually complement the work of the special rapporteur And where we can make sure that no one is left behind that all human rights issues are addressed Even the one that go beyond our mandate because we as protection and humanitarian actors, of course, we have limited mandate We have the tendency as uh, ugo was saying to look at The immediate operational support, but we I think climate change and it's pushing us to to look beyond operational support and and how we as humanitarian and human rights actors all together we can work to build resilience And and to strengthen the protection of affected communities So this is where I think protection actors can and have to play a bigger role And i'm very grateful at the cooperation with the special rapporteur And i'm sure this is just the beginning of cooperation with your mandate And we remain available to provide support to share information to our testing members and the wider protection community on upcoming missions reports So I just end here because uh, it's uh, 330 Geneva time. Thank you so much for joining. Thank you again, mr. Fry and then rue For joining and for the very insightful opening remarks And we will definitely be keeping touch. Have a good afternoon everybody Thank you Thank you very