 Good afternoon everybody, my name is Steve Wally. I work for Microsoft and I'm going to be talking to you about the first year of the confidential computing consortium and Really, it's it's been an exciting year. I was one of the founding members But I want to have a discussion first to kind of put some context around it and have that discussion from the perspective of new Thoughts on open-source software nonprofits I would ask that people keep their questions to the end I'm not I need glasses and I need to be able to do the distance thing properly Also, it'll help us hit our time mark a little bit better so We're living in a really interesting period in the software industry right now You know, we all go around saying open source has won and when you look at OSI licensed projects under the umbrellas of all of these different nonprofits Yeah, we've literally over the last few decades created tens of billions of dollars of software value At the same time software has been democratized. We're now drowning in software most of it mediocre duplicative and bad There's been an explosion in nonprofits in entirely new industries as well And it's kind of a really interesting time from that perspective You see some of these things happening in the under the Linux Foundation umbrella You know, you look at LF energy or the work that's coming out of Hollywood So these are brand new industries that have lots of interesting software lots of desire to collaborate But they're coming into this space for really the first time and then there's this trend that we're starting to see of Standards development organizations are moving towards supporting OSI Well at the same time We're starting to see open source nonprofits starting to move towards supporting standards development You might have seen Jim Zemlin's keynote this morning where he was talking about, you know The additional work that the JDF is now organized to be able to submit specifications to ISO for standardization So this is kind of a really interesting place I want to lay down a few ground rules about the way I think about open source. So I Think about healthy OSI licensed project communities in this way You've published the code under an OSI approved license and it's a declaration from the originating Community whoever that small number of maintainers is and it's a declaration of outbound sharing for any purpose And you can have no expectations of anything in return Contribution flow is the lifeblood of a successful OSI licensed project community Successful projects are transparent in the decision-making They support a growing diverse community of young users and contributors and maintainers and those really are Three separate groups of folks within your community. These are not, you know, one developer shows You need to grow that user base to find the developers that are going to go selfishly experiment with your project and then Most users are just happy to use your software in that community, but they still identify with your community And what that means is you know freeloaders means you're doing great You need to make it easy to use deploy build And contribute to the project and then you need to encourage selfish developers To Sorry, I just had a pop-up there. I wasn't expecting you need to encourage selfish developers to contribute back to the project So they don't end up living on brittle and expensive forks And then you need to be trustworthy and fair. That's kind of the heart of your community Sorry, we're learning to drive the interface It can all probably best be summed up. I regularly paraphrase JFK is an augural speech Ask not what your community can do for you You know, it's really about what you can do for your community and it really is that Intention as you build a successful project community about its its work on The community's shoulders to to be doing that outreach doing that on a collaboration, you know There's no magical community that just kind of shows up to help you do work I'm also the the person out there that argues and Debates that there is no open-source business model Not going to go into that here today but there's a couple of things that I've written one I tackle it from the perspective of engineering economics and Why open-source is such a key in our industry and that level of collaboration? But I also when you're gonna run a software business you need to run the business and so again I've tackled the debate from that perspective as well. So, you know, we're not gonna chase that today But these are things that I think inform where How nonprofits play in the space I'm so I'm going to talk about the early open-source nonprofit history This was I was Technical director at the outer curve Foundation. This was a nonprofit that was sponsored into existence It was a 501 C3 which under US tax law says you've sorry a C6 Which under US tax law says you've been created as a member organization Microsoft was the founding sponsor Creating it to support open-source projects that had something to do with Microsoft technologies it was they hired in Paula Hunter as the executive director and a few months after that she hired me and as the technical director and Our challenge was to figure out so what is the playbook? Because we had existing examples the free software foundation has been around since 1985 the Apache Software Foundation came into existence in I believe 99 the Pearl Foundation and the other there was a few language foundations at that point the original OSDL came in in 1999 and then eclipse was Created as a foundation in about 2006. So there was there was examples to look at but all of these things had been created for very specific purposes and when we when we did the analysis where we we ended up was to realize that all of these nonprofits created IP safety Which enabled companies to then participate both from consuming it into you know as components into products and services As well as to be able to contribute their changes back And the other thing that these nonprofits were doing was to remove liability From the original project maintainers, you know as you start to as you host a conference You need some kind of legal protection between you and your personal bank account So that's what these early foundations kind of started off as they were they were creating IP safety and a neutral playing field And they were removing liability and they did this often by adding and providing services to the projects Paula and I captured this the document URL is is there in the lower left of the screen, but We captured it in a paper called the rise and evolution of the open source software foundation But that was you know that was published seven years ago now And and I won't say things have changed but things continue to evolve We felt fairly good about the analysis though at the time because Henrik Ingo who he's currently at mongo, but at the time was part of the leadership of maria db and he came out of the my sql space Henrik got access to a data set that was available at the time and did a big number crunch on it and what he discovered was The nine most vibrant large communities were all Hubbed inside of nonprofits The tenth was an order of magnitude smaller And hubbed in a company So there he's a good engineer He he did not make claim, you know any kind of causality claims about this data crunch But clearly there was a strong correlation and so Paula and I kind of ran with that as the as the early playbook And so you you have this kind of simple idea that you've got the evolution of an open source project You've got this initial group of committers maintainers You start to find Contributors you're building your community and the code base gets better and better and bigger until finally you've got some kind of ecosystem And the aha was realizing that there's this point in a project's growth if it's a well run project It's got to be a healthy project But there's this point Where companies start to circle the project they want to use the components And in using it they also want to be able to contribute back And they want to be able to do this and the put the the products and services And they need to have some confidence That the there's safety in this ip and so that's what you see as a spark for a lot of these organizations The the problem is this is probably the Closer to reality diagram, you know, you don't know that you're logically going to reach this great ecosystem state and so the Kind of the the strength of it is by adding the nonprofit As an umbrella by creating this legal framework you've now created ip neutrality created ip safety You've removed the liability And so the project if you have a healthy project it can now grow to that next level And in growing to that next level you're enabling companies to start to create products and services around it My favorite example in this space, uh the apache software foundation In june of 1999 There was roughly 30 000 lines of code And three months later There was roughly 90 000 lines of code Now people didn't rush out and quickly write 60 000 lines of code but I think what it's giving folks a flavor for the kind of the backlog of companies that had been using the apache Httpd at the heart of their products and services and Didn't know how to get off the fork didn't know how to contribute weren't comfortable with the ip management environment of the original apache project And so by cleaning that whole situation up you end up in this space where the project can begin to grow again in new and interesting ways So really it's what we're seeing now is Kind of those added layers of experience that I don't know that paula and I did a great job of documenting in the kind of proto playbook back then but if you've got um You know you can remove the ip safe you can create ip safety You can remove the liability but you also end up in a space where The foundation that non-profit is adding stability to the project It does this through you know direct services for infrastructure and such you can do just simple experience You know helping provide code of conduct infrastructure helping folks understand how they need to handle cve reporting With bargos in place and such you know that next level of engagement that's going to help the community grow It creates a legal backstop to protect the project it also creates a center of gravity within the industry and So you can attract a bigger industry conversation through the members and sponsors of the organization itself You also see larger nonprofits begin to create a focus for community discussions Across the projects that are related to one another. I want to be really clear here I am not talking about forced architecture that we're somehow fitting these things together as as blocks that must You know either depend on one another or call one another or layer on one another I'm really just talking about the the interaction in the technical advisory groups that begin to happen in the non-profit And I'll talk about that in a moment. And so this really is this idea that if you have a healthy project um It benefits in a well-run nonprofit So let's talk about the confidential computing consortium This this is something that I've been party to for the last year I helped in the kind of formalization discussions and the planning for it So I want to help folks understand. What does it look like if you're going to create one of these things? The confidential computing consortium just to lay the foundation for everybody It is a community of partners of members that are is focused on supporting open source Licensed projects that are securing data in use This is a relatively new technology space. So as opposed to you know data at rest in storage or data in transit on the network This is data in use in computation And it's it's a new enough Space that collectively the members also want to make sure that we're educating the marketplace To understand exactly what this does and doesn't do and how it provides it We announced our intent to form uh last august at this event and We kind of formally kicked off with members and such Uh last october So when you go through the planning phase the planning probably started in april For an august launch and we as you saw that you know, we still didn't quite formalize Until october because you know, there's still people signing paper and cutting checks and such excuse me um It really is one of those situations that you know It starts with two partners who each kind of invite another couple of partners who tell two partners And pretty soon you have a collection of people interested in the discussion That doesn't mean they're going to sign up But they're at least interested enough to participate at that at that point in history um, we Chose to come to the linux foundation As as the parent organization Uh, it was a suggestion that I kind of encouraged at the time because all of the companies for the most part Um, we're comfortable with that legal structure. We'll talk a little bit more about that Uh, but the great part of the planning is you step into a discussion With uh linux foundation staff who have done this before so they can help you start to think about The things you're gonna have to do so one of the one of the first things you'll wrestle with is You know, what what a membership fees look like? And so we started with a prototypical budget And it was if we were going to do these sorts of things Then it would cost this sort of money So if we had this many members the fees would have to look like this And you go back and forth on that to get a sense of really Where's the stake in the ground to say we think this many of us in the conversation right now Will join at a premier level or a general level and this is how much money will kick off with um We also had a prototypical charter that we inherited and you know, it was a reasonable starting point And as you read through it, you realize that you know, obviously a couple of changes you have to make to it to declare that You know, this is the scope of the confidential computing consortium but Again, you have a reasonable Charter with which to begin the process And then you fall into launch planning Lots of discussion and debate, you know, who's going to be on stage? Where are you going to launch the event? You know the the choice of doing it in san diego at this event was part of that debate and discussion And then that idea of you know debating projects Who what projects will we start with? What are the examples of projects that we want to encourage people to understand? This is why we're here And that's a really important thing to kind of have those small anchors Back before outer curve was created I was consulting in those days I happened to be asked to take a look at the plans And one of the you know, I kind of looked at the plans and it was all reasonable And I said, that's great. Um, you'll need to pick a reasonable launch event get 10 CEOs up on stage with you talking about why they joined And at the time microsoft had the relationships in various different Companies that had a real affinity for open source that they could have easily done that Because there was lots of interesting companies Shipping open source based product on windows Make sure you hire a strong Executive director who's kind of knows what they're going to do And you'll need a project some kind of project to demonstrate for folks What is this nonprofit all about? the unfortunate part at the time was None of those things quite happened as they launched and it took them another Almost six months to get all of those things in place So it was really important that we at least had some projects that we were talking about As we were coming forward into planning the consortium to anchor In people's understanding in their imagination even where we were going And so we announced and we had this is this was our launch partners and it was a strong group of eight premier members and nine General members and it was a good mix. We we've got you know hardware vendors in the mix With arm and intel you've got cloud service providers across the the space and A good group of software companies that all care about this confidential computing space And so that was you know, we had a good launch event. We felt We felt good about it The structure that you inherit if you're doing this under the auspices of the Linux foundation looks basically like this for a lot of these Directed funds you have a governing board The governing board the governing board's job is really You know money and members that's what you should care about Do we have enough money to do the things we need to do to support our projects to support the message? and What do we have to do with respect to new members and adding you know possibly maintaining that budget We've got we do that through subcommittees. The important one here is the outreach subcommittee Some groups call out the marketing committee. We felt strongly enough that There was enough product management Weight on the bench that this was more than just some marketing folks Really we had folks that deeply understood the space as product managers And could speak to it and do the work. So we really wanted to call it the outreach committee Then you have your technical advisory council. This is where the engineers. There's one per premier member Plus Each project at a certain level Would have a member on a voting member in the technical advisory council But this is the group that's going to vet project proposals Against their criteria to say yes that belongs inside of the confidential computing consortium It's the group that's going to debate How much uh, how we best support those projects with services and how much money that that's going to cost And then you've got the actual Projects themselves that get slotted in as each is accepted As its own little project pllc This is simple Legal framework To ensure that you know all the eyes are dotted and all the t's are crossed with respect to trademark ownership And ensuring that the non-profit status of the entire chain is maintained So there's there's it looks like a lot of Legal craziness, but it actually has a fairly simple purpose Um over the last nine months lots of work has happened Um technical advisory council in its first face to face meeting Except of the first three projects. We'll talk about that in a minute. Um, they've debated diligently a definition of confidential computing And this was when you looked at that set of members You know, it does represent a weight and a center of gravity in the industry And they didn't they still didn't just kind of come up with a definition They did a deep survey across things like, you know, what's the itf definition? What are the other definitions that are available from nist or the iEEE? So it was it was a concerted effort to kind of coalesce on a definition that we all felt strongly about um They continue to improve the project acceptance criteria They've accepted two more uh projects that just over the last couple of months and we'll talk about that in a moment The outreach committee at the same time has been really busy They've uh developed a messaging framework that i'll show you briefly in a moment That ensures that everybody has a consistent message across the membership They've been running analyst briefings with the likes of gartner and forester Uh developed a current white paper that was published today on the web You can Certainly get access to both from our website or if you come and visit our booth And they're beginning to plan a conference for Uh, hopefully face-to-face um next year But we'll very likely explore some kind of virtual event in the fall this year And there's still other work. So to give you a sense of that budget, um, we're working with about $800,000 per year in membership right now And because of both the pandemic lockdown, but as well We just we were still finding our stride of how much money did we feel comfortable spending now fast? We'll end up exiting our first year With a good healthy surplus in place going into the second year And i'm a big believer that if you're going to run a non-profit You always sort of want a year in the bank because you're never sure what kind of economic downturn you're going to see Um, none of us were expecting the pandemic, but i'm actually confident We have a an operating budget for next year already in place Um, and then we're looking to start an end user advisory council come the fall We continue to pick up members. Uh, that was our our announcement today was the white paper plus all of our new members We're up to 10 Premier members now and 15 General members at this point, you know, we've added the rest of the kind of first wave of Chip vendors that care about this confidential computing space And we continue to add other interested companies. So again the We're building a center of gravity here to have an important industry conversation and it's a very collaborative group of people Um projects, uh, the first three projects through the door. Well, these were discussions that started all the way back in our planning phase Um, sgx sdk for linux came in from intel the open enclave sdk came in from microsoft and Anarchs was a new project last spring and so Red Hat was really keen to participate and it's been a great participant all the way along this um, so Those were those first three projects that we that the tac Tested against the criteria And and to a certain extent found the criteria wanting and continued to evolve it since And then this spring we've uh, accepted graphene. Now the tac has also accepted the trusted compute framework Now the trusted compute framework. It's an intel project that will be changing its name because they realized the name wasn't descriptive Um, graphene is a really interesting project because it's our first project that really is coming from a non-member It's coming in from the research community And so we're we're going through it. You know, it's again It's challenging some of our assumptions in our process and that's a really important thing to understand as you come into these, uh Is you create a non-profit is that you need to be Almost flexible with your rules as you figure out. Oh, these rules that looked really good to start with actually might need to change a bit Um, so we're working our way through some of that Um, this slide I I am not taking you through all the details but it's the messaging framework that the outreach committee came up with and again what it ensures is that there's All of the product management teams across all of our members have a consistent way To describe and discuss Confidential computing the significance of confidential computing and what market problem is it solving? What's the rule of confidential computing consortium and ensure that everybody's at least consistent with the base message Now recognize we're all companies in this space You know, it's important for us that this is part of our story to our customers And it will start to layer our product and service messages on top of this framework But this is this becomes the foundational framework that we all start from So I want to kind of pop back up for a second. Um, and talk about nonprofits in general again um, you need to create a culture And when I talk about culture, this is this is my definition of a culture You know, it's a collection of beliefs and practices of a community that involves carefully And it creates the success across generations. You know generations as people come and go because they do um, and the reason I wanted to kind of take this approach is If you don't set the culture you want in a new non-profit then you'll get the culture that happens And it may be somewhat chaotic. It may not be what you want. It certainly may surprise you. Um So you need to kind of go in with an intent to create a particular culture So let's talk about how The culture we've been creating in our first year as the as the consortium You know, kind of weed the members immediately interpret our our Charter uh in a series board revel resolutions to allow Everyone to participate across the meetings. Um Some organizations in their charters tend to create silos and They tend to try and make voting You know that if you read the charter, you'd think well, this is all about voting And what we've been trying to do is we're reduced voting down to really the boring stuff like Minutes from the last meeting, you know money and members and so We also wanted to tear down those silos. So The outreach chair is a regular participant in the technical advisory council We have governing board members that serve in a number of different places The tack chair is a member of the governing board but is also a regular visitor in the outreach committee and again, there's no requirements For this and there's no Barriers to prevent other people in the tack from attending and they do So this is We wanted this to be as open and transparent an organization and to kind of tear down the communication silos You know we we the members also publish our minutes publicly Uh, we do reserve the right to drop into an executive governing board session Because there may be sensitive discussions Uh, code of conduct comes to mind and we've had a code of conduct challenge that we had to solve Uh, that was a minute governing board meeting, but those minutes are not made available you know, not publicly published, um There could be compensation discussions at some future point, you know, there are reasons to fall into executive session but for the most part are We would like people to be able to see what we're doing and what we're working on so that they can feel good about participating Um, not that long ago uh An organization was trying to encourage Uh me wearing my microsoft hat to join their nonprofit and I said great You've been around for like almost two years. I'd love to see the last 12 to 18 months of your board minutes Now my intent here is to understand who's attending the meetings What decisions are coming out of the the meetings like who's there and what are you doing? I honestly don't care about the aspirational intent of the nonprofit. I want to actually understand. What's the work? Um, and I was told that I couldn't see the board minutes because they were private And that you're asking me for some reasonably serious money I'm not joining until I see the board minutes So it's it's a really simple thing that no as far as we're concerned. We publish our board notes Um, we we live in a world of minimum viable governance. Uh, that great expression came from serenovotny I've always admired Organizations that have grown carefully and thoughtfully and continue to succeed 30 years later things like The ietf and the work they continue to do they evolved a governance structure that worked for them over time But it was never more government governance than you needed at that moment in history You can see the same kind of success in the apache software foundation um our tack our tack chair By our charter is a member a voting member of the board But we didn't want that to start to look like vote gathering So our tack chair basically agreed that they will abstain from all governing board votes And it's that simple because the person who was elected by the group By the tack as tack chair happens to work for microsoft I'm the current governing board chair. I work for microsoft and we did not want this to start to look like people were gathering votes um tack chair runs all meetings open um We hire very few services from the linux foundation because in our way of looking at things We are The domain experts. We are the domain specialists and it doesn't matter whether you're looking at the outreach committee or whether you're looking at the tack these are the domain specialists in this space And we are the best people to do the work even though it's you know, it's volunteers working and collaborating To a certain extent just like an open source project and we'll come back to that idea a couple of times. Um There is a real get work done ethic within the within all of the committees Just like you see in it in a healthy open source project, you know, everybody is willing to do The hard work chopping wood and carrying water that you hear about associated with open source projects Because that's the best way to get things done. We have a fabulous program manager from the linux foundation and we put things In their queue and they get stuff done up for us all the time So it's not that we don't use the linux foundation services. The linux foundation is a great service organization to us as a Directed fund under the auspices of the linux foundation But there was things in our prototype budget like pr services Now we all collectively had experience with the pr firm. They're a great pr firm But for our size and where we are in our history We didn't need a lot of noise and a monthly billing for it What we needed was to ensure that we were getting the kind of foundational work done And figuring out how we want to message that and so we will absolutely look to hire some of these things in the future But right now it's we the members doing it um And like I said, it really has been about reducing that idea that this is not about voting uh that you know voting really is money members and minutes The other thing that we were trying to do when you talk about culture Ritual is important in creating human culture and so you know as Tweet and trite as that might sound This slide with a different title on it shows up at the start of all meetings Governing board meets once a month The tack meets for two hours every other week Outreach meets for an hour every week But we always start here because this is the reminder. This is why we're here This is who we are in the culture. We believe in And we really do care like the the breadth of our culture incorporates things like a harassment free environment um that we really You know care about the diversity and inclusivity of the work that we're doing Um, so that's something that shows up the other slide that shows up all the time for us Is our antitrust policy? Antitrust policy is actually a really important thing. Uh, and I and I want to Tackle that from a more general statement Open source nonprofits are legal structures They exist to uh hold shared assets They remove liability as we've discussed but they formally in their legal structure remove that liability And then there is a class of them that are member organizations that provide antitrust protections It's insurance. Um, you know collaboration is good Collusion not so much That's a really important thing to kind of carry forward. So there are you'll occasionally hear people Snipe at the linux foundation that it's pay-to-play. It's all the big vendors. No, it's not always big vendors um and the pay-to-play that you're seeing is A collection of vendors Needs a legal framework to collaborate And so those membership dues Are insurance You know, so we need the legal framework because otherwise, you know, you've you've got a collection of partners and or competitors in a room together And so you put in place this legal framework To give you protection from from antitrust law So that that's the reason that our minutes are structured the way our minutes are, you know, every meeting The attendees are noted by membership Um, every meeting the decisions that happened in that meeting are captured in the minutes This is the the the log of what we've done and so at any time if somebody tried to accuse us of you know Collusion we could actually pull out all the minutes and demonstrate that no, no this, you know, Transparently we're an organization that is collaborating in these ways So why would you join or sponsor one of these open source nonprofits? Um, you know, really there's a set of reasons that Uh All boil down to the the mission Benefits the company story to customers Um When paul and i were we're doing the original work, you know We we talked a lot about that idea of you're supporting and funding services to projects Um that you care about that have a clear ip management need You're providing the they these in return provide the building blocks for you the business But that's really only one thing that fits You know our in the consortium we we aren't capped at just projects from members any project can come to us We're not making these projects healthy Only for members. We're making them healthy for broad use in a new technology domain um As a member you're directly creating and funding the collateral build-out and development process for consistent messaging That goes all the way back to the foundation of the osdl which became the linux foundation You know the the early message was this ip is safe in the teeth of kind of the competitive messaging that was going on From the likes of microsoft sun and oracle You're directly engaging in these committee discussions Which accelerates innovation i'm always amazed i sit in on all attack meetings Not because this is my domain of expertise But because of the number of things i learned listening to some of the best folks in the industry debate some of these issues And come up with that collaborative agreed-on solution um The nonprofit is a shared cost structure So you aren't eating the cost of this and going it your own way And being a member creates that direct association Of the company brand with the nonprofit brand for again. It basically is benefiting your story to customers um and one of the the things that kind of a secondary thing but was fascinating is The hallway conversations you suddenly it has as a you know big companies and small companies together in a room with a common goal opens up discussions For companies to partner in ways that they might not have otherwise thought to have those discussions So i think that's a real benefit for membership as well um I want to finish up with just a few ideas for folks that um i've seen some challenges And i think the the best way is to go back to the magic diagram You know, there's this wonderful stylized idea and the dream of most corporate-owned Or corporate controlled open source projects is again that they're going to have this this great growing wave of source code and people loving them for it um There's a little more structure that suddenly shows up because you're thinking yeah our partners and our customers can Be become contributors um The reality though is these things are often kicked off Very early in their life. So they haven't become A successful open source community And the company may not have done the deeper analysis to figure out What's the goal here? um In the business side of the world I argue if you're a software company and you're doing open source projects those projects sit in either the context space And what I mean by that best example, I can give you a Spinnaker from netflix. There is nothing about the spinnaker c-i-c-d system That is directly connected to the revenue stream of Streaming video content to all of your customers devices. It's it's context software. It's the tooling you create to do the business There's complement value ad software about the interesting interesting projects in this kind of complement to the core value proposition An easy example there would be the azure cli Is an open source project that microsoft runs and It is in the complement space of making azure easier to use for a class of user But it's not part of the core azure value proposition And then there's your core value proposition to your customers. What's the thing that you what problem are you solving for your customers? Setting customer and partner expectations in community community is really critical and depends on Which of those three buckets you're trying to play in Uh at the same time knowing your company goal really requires you to understand Which of these buckets are we playing in and so there's a lot of analysis that has to go on As you take this fledgling open source project Into the pipeline and I think what the the biggest challenge then becomes They want to go big fast and they think the non-profit is the way to make that project go big fast and This is where I I kind of push back because I think there's a few simple rules here A non-profit will not make an osi licensed project healthy The project community has to be healthy in and of itself Remember go all the way back to that kind of the first couple of slides that I put up there is a What a healthy project looks like that has to exist Before you can get the growth amplification in a non-profit um, likewise Non-profit will not create culture for you Um, I think that's some of where you see kind of chaotic cultures in some of these newer foundations Is because folks thought I I'm I'm going to create a non-profit And then good stuff is going to happen and they don't realize that you have to Create that culture the non-profit will amplify whatever culture is there And so I think that's really important to get right um and then At the end of the day you get out of the non-profit what you put into it That that ethic that came out of uh, uh, you know strong successful open source community projects Uh chopping wood and carrying water doing the boring work. That's necessary to carry the mission forward that applies at the level of the non-profit as well and Well, some of those things can be done by employees that you might hire Through your membership or services that you might hire in From the linux foundation or there's a number of companies in this space that can do it for you At the end of the day the members have to there have to be enough members that care deeply enough To actually do that wood chopping and water carrying And with that, uh, that's all I have to say today. Uh, I am happy to answer any questions. We've got uh, almost 10 minutes left and Let me throw these on so I can actually read screens. Um Does anybody have any questions? I'm not seeing any questions showing showing up in the chat. Um, I am around Uh, I'm around for all three days. Uh, I will be spending a certain amount of time in the, uh Confidential computing consortium booth, but also you can always reach me. Uh, I Always available by email if folks have specific questions they want to discuss So with that, I'd like to thank everybody for their time this afternoon and I wish you all a good conference