 associated with the company. Sir, you have, we read about it, we look back at the journey. Want to understand from you, 42 years at one place, so what are the memories that stay with you? No, first of all, Rohail, my name is not Dipankar Das. If you tell Dipankar Das, nobody will know who Dipankar Das is. I am Dipankar Das Purkasta. People also know where Dipankar Das Purkasta. I am well known as DDP or DD. I am very much okay with DDP. Okay, last question. Good morning Anurad. Good morning. How are you? I am fine. Thank you. So you and please continue on. I will join. Yeah, memory is the ultimate terror and the endless memories. When I joined, I mean it was 42 years is a lot of time. There is no cell phones. I mean, you know the four decades ago, what was there? The industry wasn't completely different, very casual approach, no bottom line orientation. So everybody was happy and a lot of advertisement, plenty of advertising, people were reading newspapers, TV was unknown. So it is a different ball game altogether. So now there's the days past, everything changed as the competition came up, the different media between different media with the digital came in, the mobile phone revolution. I've gone through everything, everything in these four decades. And this company also has grown from a small regional newspaper to a large national conglomerate of television, magazine, newspapers, and also very strongly in digital now. So I'm very happy that today as I step down and the MVP has grown to be formidable news media group in the country. Mr. Prakash, one thing let me ask you, as you rightly said, the newspapers were really predominant. And you know, you have both an English newspaper, which is for a certain PG, the telegraph, and of course the Anubhav Patrika, and then it's various magazines like Sonanda and so on. Now, covering developments in politics 30 years back or 20 years back was a different ball game than today, because the kind of leaders were different, the environment was different. Tell me what has changed in that context? First of all, there's the editorial policy for each of these are different. And they're each on different genres. The telegraph, like I'll say tell you, telegraph, any, suppose the cricket matches covered in Calcutta, then there will be separate photographers going for telegraph, photographers separate from other procedures. So that they don't share their stories at all. There is a hard competition between them. And the editorial policy is also different. So what has changed before and now is, I find nowadays, I mean, I mean, people are too restless, too restless. People can't, the job of the media is to criticize, to find out the goods and best of society. But people want to see only the good, not the bad part of it. So anything, I mean, which is which is not liked today, it should be published. So that's difficult situation. But we are the only media left in the country, hopefully, that we are very bold and we publish what we think is right for the society. Okay, now let me come into the foray of ABP into news. First, as a JV with the international broadcaster and over the last few years with ABP news. Tell me, of course, you talked about television news can be shrill and can be colored. But you know, ABP news has stood on its ground. You built a formidable network in the ABP news network. Tell us what are your reflections when you look back on how ABP news network has been able to take the venerable ABP brand and build something around it? Yeah, I remember long ago, when we started, when they started, it is good that we did it. I mean, it was a star ABP JV. And so, I mean, we learned a lot from star that we didn't know anything about television. So these few years, we were there, they were there with us. It was good learning experience. And it was then star news, if we recall. So then we bought them over completely. And then we thought that this we must have a ABP name. So this overnight, the star news became ABP news. And there is a, you remember, there was a huge campaign. I mean, it is not easy to change from star to star image to ABP. And even for a few years after that, people used to call us star news. But, but yes, news, basically news is in our blood. So whether it is in television or newspaper, it is only the packaging, how you bottle it. So the technicalities we learn from star, the nuances of television, and the content preparation is our 40, we know what it is. So both club together, we were successful and we knew what to do. And we always, from day one, we thought to be in a premium positioning. We won't, we won't go into those what is Srinigraha doing and what is that doing in this, this silly, silly, I mean, kind of news production. So we are in serious journalism, serious news, serious content for, for readers. And then you know how it, ABP news expanded into we started Bengali one, it was a loading success. And then we launched Maharashtra, ABP Maja, number one in Maharashtra very soon. We launched Gujarat, Ashmitra from Gujarat. Then we launched, there's recently launched ABP Ganga in UP and Uttarakhand. These also we are now within one year we are number two there. So it is, it is a very good story really. And then, and I mean, only thing is now we have to go south. So once it goes, my aim is to within next five years, at the most actually earlier three years, we should be the number one pan-India regional news, news media. A news book, you're talking about network that has and should be in language. We are not with our plays, not in English. We'll be language player across India. And we'll be number one language player already in the North India and West India, but South India when you have it, we plan to do it soon. So we'll have a pan-India presence. And we will be the, we should be the number one regional news player in the country. Fantastic. Now let me ask you, the last 12 months have been very different than whatever we've seen in our lives in your 42 years. This 42nd year must have been a very different year like it's been for most of us in our careers, in our spheres of influence. Tell us, how was the last 12 months for you both personally and professionally? What all you had to do at ABP to be able to weather the storm, to be able to stay relevant and at the same time prepare for the future? Yeah, last year I remember this day, today we are under lockdown. This day last year was under lockdown. So we suddenly found everything is, I mean everything is vanished from under a feet. We don't know what to do. We didn't know how to weather, how to live really, how our food will come from outside, how I'll get a medicines, how we'll survive. Nothing, everything uncertain. And suddenly we found our newspaper's distribution failed to almost zero, almost zero, no advertisement. So how do we thrive? Any expenses, cost, basis, I mean fixed, it can't be changed. So we thought if we don't do anything now, it is a disaster. We won't even survive maybe more than six months at the most with the current results. So we had to do something very quickly, fast and drastic. So we gathered a team, we had the meetings. I remember April, we decided that these things we must do and we have each one was very tough decision. First of all decided that we have to and we can't run this company with so many people because if people, I mean if the revenue is zero and we have so many people, we can't afford it. So we had to, one is to reduce people and so that the others can survive. There is no point everybody dying together. So it was people, numbers and the salary also, salary also we all compromised from myself down below a certain level, not everybody at a certain level who decided to I mean have a cut in our salary. It's a huge reduction in cost. Then we decided overnight to stop to close down all our offices across India overnight. So we closed down all the we I mean terminated all the lease agreements in Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Bangalore, Delhi, everywhere. So this was done within a month's time. Everything was done. We saved a huge cost and then we decided everybody work for home. So everybody's work from home. Anurag, even I speak today in our Calcutta office, our own building, we published two news telegraph newspapers published at night with six people, can I believe it? Six people in our building office, a newspaper, multi-edition newspaper. Another one that takes a bit more say about maybe 15 people. So 21 people, 22 people and support staff, technology people. So we don't have more than 40 people in our office anytime. Daytime is even like, daytime it is like all empty. And we are used to it now for one year. And people are loving it, our productivity is improved. And I don't think we should ever go back to our normal office work. So that these are the I mean so our cost basis reduced hugely. And obviously we are in a much better position like from July onwards revenue started coming. And by the way, some leading newspaper owners phoned me saying that DDP, we should stop printing newspapers. Why should we print? There's so much waste will generate nobody will buy this. I said, don't make this mistake ever. If you stop printing newspapers, then they'll forget about us. After six months, nobody will read the newspapers. So please don't, I don't want to name them, but very leading publishers of India. And so we continued publishing. There are a lot of issues. People are saying, no, the newspaper causes the coronavirus. So we ran a huge campaign. I mean, assuring them the how our newspapers produced is not even touched by hand. And it goes untouched to you. And we showed the report from National E.M.W.H. reports, other science reports that this is paper is list list. I mean, a career of this thing virus because of its porosity. So then a campaign and gradually sales improved. And soon, I think by Pooja's, we're about over 85% of our original circulation numbers. And today we're distributed 90%. And revenue gradually went up, went up. And then I had a town hall meeting, I think, sometime in, we had one in June, one in January, I think. So we assured the people, don't worry. We are taking steps. Don't get panicky for heaven's sake. Be calm. We are taking steps. Company will survive. And add revenue gradually went up. With last year, we did about 50%, roughly 50% of last year. But as of today, month on month, we are same as last year. March this year, we'll do the same revenue as last year. So now you just imagine, 21, 22 will be, I mean, should be about, obviously, there will be growth. There will be huge growth over last year. And cost basis about almost hugely reduced. I don't want to say number, hugely reduced. So see the sustainability becomes very high. Profitability is high. I think we have higher profitability. So there is, I mean, the clear roadmap ahead for ABP, we can invest more and we can grow faster. So I'm very happy to step down at this moment, this juncture, after putting this company in a right track in a very healthy situation. And we take, I mean, muscle and strength and belief that we can face the future. And Mr. Koukasta, you're stepping down as the MBA and CEO in a week or so, but you will continue to be there to guide the incoming CEO who's been a deputy CEO for a while and also be on the board and guide the transition. So it's not that, you will have your operational role, but at least for now, you're pretty much there guiding the company, right? Anurag, it is in my blood. ABP is in my blood. So how can I just, I mean, sever everything and run away? I cannot do that. But yes, I'll have enough spare time to go around. I want to travel now, go around, meet people, maybe have lunch with you, like people like you, and go around across the world. And I'll be part of all the associations. I am a board member of INMA. I know you've been a president of WAN. I'm board member of WAN IFRA. I'm taking presidency of INS this year, and I'll be in the board of ABP, obviously. I'll be in the board of ABP. So I'll be in advisory role guiding the new management. But I wouldn't be in executive role, but this is long time I have done that. And I think I'm very happy to step down at the moment that the company is in the right place. Mr. Koukasta, you work with ABP, the institution, it's not just a newspaper. And you work with both the promoters. ABP has Mr. Avik Sarkar and Mr. Arup Sarkar. You work with both the brothers. Give us a sense of how is it working with both of them? And give us some anecdotes which convey their approaches. I mean, two are just opposite to each other. They complement each other. So we have grown together for 42 years. We are almost same age. So they are like friends. But two personalities are just the diverse. Avik Sarkar is extrovert. He loves to go around, meet people, have his own wine and food. Arup Sarkar is an introvert. He wants to take the back seat and run the organization from behind. So they are two different personalities. Both are equally sharp and both are very, very business oriented. And the biggest thing is they gave us the professional freedom. Somebody if you ask me why, how do you stay for so long? It is only for two reasons. One is the freedom. Not only us, the down the line, the professional freedom what people get is unbelievable. I think nowhere else they'll get it. And the trust and the mutual trust between us. So that's it. I mean, I get along very well with both of them, obviously. Fantastic. I also want to talk about Generation Next. Now, Arup Sarkar's son has been involved. He's the executive director. And he's been involved both with the television operations and the newspaper operations. Yes, that's right. Tell me, again, ABP has chosen inside to be able to lead rather than bringing talent from outside. Even a couple of years back when ABP News Network, there was an opportunity to lead, you chose an existing leader to lead it. So give us what this philosophy of creating leaders from within and giving them opportunities to lead. You know, that is that is that is our strong belief that leaders should come from within. There are a lot of lot of talents in the organization. So and like what they could have taken over a CEO, but you decided not to look a family member should not be run. I'm CEO shouldn't be a family member. So it should be run by a professional person like me or anybody else. So Dhubu was chosen as CEO. He has groomed under me for years. And what they've also was groomed under me for years. So what they will be, I mean, Dhubu will report to him. Dhubu will report to him. So he will be overall in charge. But as a CEO, Dhubu will function reporting to him, what he does will oversee the news also. So they will look out the overseeing news also. So and he is basically a journalist. He worked, worked initially years with many large organization in UK, in India. So that's the plan. And we want to, I mean, continue with this professional approach. And so family and the professionalism, they're two different things. Family is there in the board. They can, as a shareholder, they have a different view. And the CEO with his team should run the company without any kind of, I mean, I won't say interference, but they should run with full freedom. And I tell everybody, I tell everyone, like when I spoke to my people last week, I said the first thing is, you please learn to say no. You tell your people, tell you down below this, you must say no. In my lifetime, I have said more, no than years to my bosses. And I'm still there. So unless you do that, then nothing will happen. If everybody says, yes, sir, yes, sir, nothing is going to happen. There must be no to be dissent. He may be wrong when we write. And he should be, he shouldn't fear to express. He must express his, his, what he thinks. He shouldn't think, he should be intimidated if I say this. So this is a fundamental thing, you must culture this. So it is now in the organization very much, but still we have more to go on this. So this is one thing I have told Dhruva also and my team. That's it. My last two questions. One is in Australia, recent judgment has got the social media giants to pay the newspapers. Now, do you see a similar kind of trend happening in India? And if it happens, what does it offer for the newspaper owners? And second question is, while you're a content company, digital is becoming bigger and bigger. How is ABP building digital footprint and what are the successes? Now, Australian, Australian this they legalize it now and it's low. So it is a fire. It will have a fire-reaching effect across the world. And I'm sure India will follow soon. I think next to come is my belief is next to come is India and Brazil. So, and Google and Facebook can't ignore this large, this, the number of people, number of people. So this is, my belief will happen very soon and it is good. Australia has got a very good deal, much better than France is done. So they have got a large sum. It is a lump sum amount for, they have created now, you know what is happening. Google has created a Google showcase. So you have to put your news in the showcase and then they'll give you a lump sum amount per annum. It is not per click or per visit. And Facebook also doing the same thing. Facebook amount I'm told is much less than Google. But the trend is right. So this will, in similar manner, it will happen in India very soon. My guess is within next one year it should happen. But this is my guess. I don't know if it may be wrong. It should happen. So then we'll get a publisher, we'll get a fair share from there. We're getting nothing now. Piddle amount, almost like giving arms. So that won't happen. So that's a very good thing. And digital, yes, it is the future. No doubt about it because digital will be especially after this corona. It has really jumped maybe 10 years. The whole thing has been enhanced by almost 10 years by corona. So digital has to, we are also doing our best. There are two digital divisions. One is television. We have a VP live, which is doing very well. That is completely on video, mostly on video. A video is doing very good. And video, video is the future. As you'll see how Netflix and Amazon Prime etc. are doing. So that is doing well. In a VP digitally also doing pretty well in our whatever content, not text. So that we're doing many things there. We're doing something, education, something. There are many things to do. Digital, there's no, I mean, the sky's the limit. You think about it as it is possible. Like we're doing this. Could you believe such webinars one year ago? It's happening every day. Every day I do about four webinars, four kinds of Zoom meetings. Very more. So this is not possible. So this is now it will become so easy. So technology is not a hindrance. It will only help and help us. But this is the future. No doubt about it. We all have to go there in that route. Thank you. And I just want to sign off by asking you. You know, you've done it all. You've been leading in company for a long time. You've been able to, as you said, even in the last 12 months, be able to do it in a better shape, be able to bring in success, continue to work with promoters and advisory consulting role and, you know, do other things that help the business and the industry. Tell me, is there a bucket list that has still not been done? I want to go to travel a lot. That's my dream. I have not traveled to Latin America. So during Corona time, I learned Spanish. I have done a beginner number one, number two, third level course I finished from a Spanish University of Valencia. So I can speak Spanish now, not fluently, but I can understand and speak a little. So I plan to go to visit Latin America and it is mostly Spanish speaking country. That is my immediate wish. And then, obviously, I want to travel to other countries also, especially next two years, I'll have extensive travel once everything opens up. And I have a great food, you know. So I love food, so I want to taste different kinds of food and abroad. And do you plan to write a book or yes, that is a good thing to say. That's a good thing to say. I was thinking about this, but now I think it is maturing more now. So I think I should write a book. This is a very checkered journey for the last 42 years. And so much dramatic changes have happened over these years and so many things to say. So I want to leave it there and something must be left behind. So I am thinking of writing writing book very seriously. So that will happen after a year maybe. Let me, my first bucket list is travel. Fantastic. Clearly, the Indian media landscape in the last two, three decades has gone sea change, seismic changes. The last 12 months have accelerated a lot of those. And you know, a long time obituary of newspapers has been, you know, tell me what should Indian media owner and specifically newspaper owner should do to stay relevant? Number one is credibility. They should never compromise that like MVP. People, the name is credible. People know MVP is something coming on. MVP is authentic. So we must make sure and we should not compromise on editorial. People are cutting costs. They cut through the bone. So editorial should not be compromised much. You may have little bit of a do, but we must have good journalists to write and also provide credible information. Because Anurag, I mean, this need for the news has increased actually. These new general millennials, they want to know more. So if we give them right kind of news and it is good after Corona, this is giving us a huge, I'm short in arms, because there's so much of fake news going around social media, so much. So we stand out. This is the opportunity. We stand out as a few of us, those are leading brands stand out as a credible source of information and relevant, as you say, it has to be relevant and relevant. And also I would say I'll go one step personalized. So that will happen through digital is not possible through through newspaper for print media. So that will happen to digital, but digital and print, I don't treat them separately. These are only the medium. How do you bottle it? I mean, you can bottle in a round bottle or a cylindrical bottle or a small file. It doesn't matter. So I'm not very serious about the way it is bottled. So the main thing is both digital or print, the content is the king content must be must be, I mean, Anna Anna's must be whatever they built in must be more, more bill. I mean, we should never come. I mean, compromise on credibility and relevance never does the end of it. And those who have done this, those who have done this, they succeeded. And also the people want to know stories, the new new kind of don't like just this routine information. They like to give you example. New York Times did a story sitting in India, we didn't know about it. They did a story about this. There's a mountainous while the climb Mount Everest, what do they do? So they send journalists along with them up to the base camp, there's something beyond that. They stay with them 24 hours and just just found out what to do daily and what motivates them, how do they go to climb the speaks and what drives them to do that. And they made an excellent story on that. People will love it, love to read it. People will love this big diversion from a routine where they put a new lockdown. These are now Monday and every day is happening. These are the new things. I mean, our journalists also should research and write something new. I mean, the daily chore, I mean, the same thing again and again, people a young generation don't like. They like something which they never knew about it. Absolutely. Mr. Purugashta, I've had the pleasure of knowing you, interacting with you and getting your kindness and kindness. Navneet, who's the Managing Director of the Hindu See of the Hindu Group of Publications is saying no specific question. I just want to say thanks for the lovely conversation and wanted to wish DDB the very best for what he has done for the industry. He's a very good friend of mine. He's a very good friend of mine. And, you know, there's one more question where has the thought of, because you steer the company through turbulent times, has the thought of mentoring startups and people who may have the need for professional guidance come to your mind beyond everything? I'm always there. I don't want to be doing a commercial and we use it as my, this thing, earning. But anybody, I'd love it. Anybody who wants to take an advice, I've got a lot of free time. They can write to me. They can approach me. I'll be very, very happy. And I love to interact with your youth, young generation. That gives me a lot of my young. If you'll ask me, Mr. Pudukas, there's a 73. How do you run around so much and why do you get a stamina? I get this from the young people. I love to interact with young generation. I spend a lot of time with them. See, if any startup, people want to know, want to take my advice without money, it'll be pro bono, it'll be done. Thank you so much, Mr. Prokhaista. As Mr. Prokhaista is known as DDP in the industry, as well as within ABB, we wish DDP all the best. And we look forward to more conversations to him. Hopefully, what are the best places in Spain to go? Or what are the best places to eat in Spain? But I want to let you go by asking you something which is very, very topical, elections in Bengal around the corner. It looks like a very tough contest. What do you have to say? What do you think we are still a couple of days away? And sometimes elections are won in the last few days. The Prime Minister rallies are still there. But what is your sense of what do you think will be happening in the assembly elections in West Bengal? Anurag, I don't want to make any prediction on this. I don't know. You have seen the recent, we have come out with many researches. So people have gone through it, they go through it, you will know. But I don't want to make any prediction at the eve of elections. Thank you so much, Mr. Prokhaista. We respect that. We wish you luck. Thank you for your contributions and God bless you and keep guiding the young professionals in the industry. And we wish you luck to complete your bucket list. So thank you so much. God bless you. Thank you. Keep in touch, Anurag. Have a good lunch and dinner together. Look forward to seeing you soon. Hopefully in the next two, three weeks, things get better and we look forward to interacting with you. Okay, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Bye-bye.