 decreasing on the screen, but not all of them are appearing. Lindsay, can you see, can you let people in? I don't see that I see that you've let everyone in because they've slowly disappeared from my screen as well. OK, it's working, but I believe they can still regardless of whether they're let in or not, they can still see the sessions. So then recording has begun. So I will leave now. Perfect. Fine. So fine. Very much. Right, I can see colleagues joining in. And I don't want to use up any extra time to ensure that we do use our our fully. So good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everyone. Our speakers and the audience. And welcome to our panel today. On recover stronger ethical recruitment in global supply chain and I am the senior regional thematic specialist on labour migration and human development for the International Organization for Migration based in IOM Costa Rica, San Jose. Today, we have the pleasure of having with us several distinguished guests from the private sector and from represent from the responsible business initiatives, as well as from UN agencies. Welcome to all of you. Let me start by introducing our representative of the private sector. This is Mike McDonald, who is senior manager of supply chain sustainability at Intel Corporation. Good morning, Mike. Hi, thanks. Let me just continue. Then with the representative from the responsible business initiatives. We have Bob Mitchell, who is the vice president of the responsible business alliance. Good morning, Mitchell. Hi, thanks for having us. And then we have David Schilling, who is senior program director of human rights and resources at the Interface Center for Corporate Responsibility. Sorry, yes, that's correct. Yes, good morning, David. And then we do have our colleague, Pavel Chalice, who is the Iris program manager at the International Organization for Migration at HQ in Geneva. Welcome to all of you. Thank you very much for accepting to being our panelists today. Now, before I start, I wanted to also take this occasion to inform our speakers today and our audience that there are two other events that are taking place within this forum organized by IOM. So specifically, we have one today at 23 to 24 hours EST on protecting migrant workers across supply chains through blockchains with the participation of the Coca-Cola company, DGNX and Forum Asia. Tomorrow, we will have another panel from seven to eight EST for the early rises in this region, which is on building back better, promoting ecosystems for inclusive entrepreneurship post COVID with the Impact Hub. Now, before I go on to a small introduction onto this panel, I wanted to inform panelists and the audience that today this panel is going to be organized as following. I am going to moderate it. And so I will move after this short logistic information on to posing questions to the various panelists. I will have one question each. I will then have one question for all. And we will have a few minutes at the end for the audience to pose their questions. So I would encourage the audience to please write their questions onto the chat just on the side of the video so that panelists will be able to actually see the questions coming through and pick and choose the one that they will be able to answer and they prefer to answer. All right, then the short introduction. Countries globally and in our region, the Americas and the Caribbean continue to be a source, transit and destination of rural to urban, intra-regional and international migration. The presence of large informal sectors and economies, the weak social security systems, instability and natural disasters remain the main drivers of migration, pushing large sections of the population to look for employment opportunities abroad, mainly in the United States of America and in Canada. But increasingly, also within the region, through the use of informal and regular channels, personal contacts, as well as unregistered brokers or agencies. Irregular migration remains a challenge in this region, caused not only by lack of information about regular migration channels, but also by the inability for migrant labor to access these channels. Now, while countries often provide valuable and needed labor support for this region, some countries of origin are still struggling to apply regulation and guidelines to guide international recruitment practices. With the result that private employment agencies and other contractors and subcontractors often operate without registration or control. Now, despite several countries having established bilateral labor agreements to regularly supply the region with migrant laborers, some agreements still apply the so-called workers pay business model, which is indeed effectively based on unethical recruitment practices. The lack of control at regulation exposes, as we know very well, migrant workers to real risks of exploitation during the recruitment and deployment phases by unscrupulous labor brokers or recruiters that actually charge fees, some of which are very high and provide misleading information about the job offer, exploit inspiring migrant workers through false promises and coercion, and expose them to becoming victims of human trafficking, forced labor and debt bondage and abuse in general. Now, concluding, I can say that IOM has developed a specific tool to promote ethical recruitment practices globally. This is the International Recruitment Integrity System, or in short, IRIS, which is a global initiative designed to promote ethical recruitment and transform radically the international recruitment industry for it to be fair for employers, recruitment agencies and migrant workers, so to be a win-win situation for all. This will be probably introduced by our colleague Pavel today during the panel. Now, without further ado, let me move on to the questions that we have prepared for our panelists. And so we have several questions that should allow panelists to actually present some of the tools and good examples so that they have come across during their work. And I will remind panelists to then to kindly take one or two minutes to explain who you are working for, so what's your company doing and who you are. So the first question will go to Bob. Hello, Bob. I was wondering if you could tell us what are the leading challenges currently faced by multinational enterprises and their supply chain business partners related to labour migration, international recruitment, and the protection of migrant workers. In addition, I was wondering if you could tell us where can companies start with a targeted, stepwise approach. Thank you very much, Bob. You have the tool. Great, thank you. Welcome to all the panelists. Thanks for IOM and the UNGC for having the RBA out here to speak today. So my name is, again, Bob Mitchell and Vice President of the Responsible Business Alliance, we're a coalition of over 170 companies working to promote the rights of workers within supply chains on top of doing significant amount of supply chain environmental work as well. The the topic of trafficking forced labour is our most I would say our most material or salient issue within the industries which we represent. We're founded by a core of electronics companies and has been extending out into a multi-industry and multi-stakeholder approach on trafficking forced labour through one of the initiatives of the RBA called the Responsible Labour Initiative. The core work of the Responsible Labour Initiative is focused on the application of due diligence on trafficking forced labour in international supply chains and the fundamental reshaping of recruitment, the economics around recruitment in order to work towards eliminating trafficking forced labour when there is migration for work. So when really taking a look at the challenges that the companies who work with base as they implement their standards within supply chains, it's I think it's becoming quite self-evident the standards that need to be applied here in terms of protecting workers from from the conditions that may contribute to modern slavery, things like recruitment fees being charged during during recruitment and migration leading to debt bondage, substitution of contracts with holding in personal information and documents, freedom of movement and the inability to resign from a position. All these are examples of conditions that can pile on in different levels of severity to create a forced labour situation. However, this looks different in almost every context. There are some commonalities, but, you know, for instance, the documents that may be withheld as an example to create leverage over a worker. In some cases, maybe a passport, that's the most popular one, but sometimes there are school papers, diploma. In other cases, they might not be a document. They might be materials of sorry, possessions of material value, wedding rings, things like that. So these artifacts that can create leverage over a worker as an example can change context to context. The actors also within migration may change very rapidly as well. In some cases, it's traditional recruitment through a labor agency channel, whether that be in the Americas, Europe or Asia. And in other cases, it may be the placement of a student through an internship program. And in other cases, it might be a state distillated migration for work over international boundaries or even domestically. But what we found is in almost every case, if you put the template of the risks that a worker faces over their journey for employment over any one of those contextual situations, it makes it much easier to determine whether or not that violates this international standards around modern slavery. So there are ways through this. I'd say another one of the challenges is extending beyond the sphere of influence of a company. In many cases, the company has quite a bit of influence over the first tier of their supply chain. But as they get successively deeper into their supply chain where the risk might be higher or even in some of their first tier, they may not have the spend profile within that specific facility or set of facilities to actually influence change, especially where it may be legally allowable, but not up to international standards. And so this idea of coming together to collectively act in a similar way and apply the right amount of leverage as an industry or set of industries becomes even that much more important. I'll say another issue we've seen come up is especially with the evolution of international regulations, whether they be focused on procurement based requirements, which are clear about goods and services sold to that entity, not being made with forced labor or, in some cases, the potential for criminal liability or the stoppage of goods entering into a specific country. There's a rise of these and in many ways that's good for companies. In other ways, it begins to create sort of a challenge between a compliance based mindset for companies and that of that of a progressive minded company. Wanting to actively seek to solve problems, identify the issues related to trafficking forced labor and eliminate them before they become a compliance issue. And so we see some companies retreating into compliance based mind frames and others leaning in very progressively in this case. I'll say one of the last ones here because I know that there's gone for quite a while about these challenges. It has to do with the current context as it relates to the global health crisis and the way this begins to expose the vulnerabilities that a that a vulnerable population may be subject to. And so in this case, the challenge for many of the companies is being able to detect and adapt to what's going on in a significant change and disruption in the model that they were trying to exert due diligence on in the first place. So suddenly that begins to fall apart because of a global pandemic like we're facing. And then companies have to adapt quite quickly to understand the conditions in the interim and how to recover from that over time. I'm hoping we get to sort of explore that through our different panelists today since it is an important topic right now. When we think about how companies can really start to work through some of these challenges, you know, one is to start with a basic due diligence approach. Now that this is this is supported by many international standards. But it really is rooted in cycles that we've seen for quite a while in the business community. And the first is really to to say what what standard you want to be adhered to within your business community that you work with your business partners, be quite clear on the policies and establish the management systems and the communications with your supply chain in order to not leave any gray area. Then iterate through a series of risk identification activities, working through a capacity building to cease, prevent and mitigate issues on the ground, ensuring you're participating in remediation where it's necessary and providing a voice to workers that's legitimate and independent and then monitoring progress and and being transparent about that. And this is not a static cycle that you conduct one time. It iterates, you get further and further down into your own operations, but also those of your suppliers and their suppliers and your recruitment partners as well. And I can't stretch enough the importance of collective action in this case. It's one thing for one company to to say what they want and drive that down into a very narrow slice of international supply chain. It's a much different thing for companies that represent trillions of dollars in revenue throughout the world to come together and exert their collective influence and leverage past their first year suppliers into second year, third year and through the recruitment partners as well. I'm proud of what we've done within the RBA and the responsible labor initiative to date in terms of bringing roughly 10 different industries to the table. And driving a significant amount of recruitment fee repayment, return of passports, the correction of broken contract schemes and other progress we're making over time and looking forward to the opportunity to work with with partners like those we have on the phone, integrating our systems like we have in our responsible recruitment program with IOM's Iris program and showing the complementarity of those and helping the private sector and international community drive this forward. So I'll pause there, hand it over back to you, Michaela, for additional comments from our guests here. Sorry, I muted myself. Thank you very much, Bob. I think that you were quite clear and encouraging actually in the approach. Yes, the challenges are many, but you also said that it is really quite evident the standard that need to be applied and you stressed also the vital importance of acting and coming together as as industries as essential indeed to to address the challenges. Now, remaining on the challenges, but with a specific focus on by the private sector, I wanted to move to Mike and my question is the following, Mike, could you tell us what key steps have been taken by global companies or supply chain employers working in partnership to overcome such challenges? Thank you very much. You have the floor. Yeah, thanks. Glad to be here with everybody. Mike McDonald from Intel Corporation. We are a semiconductor maker based in the US, but we have our own factories around the world in the Americans, Europe, Israel, Asia, as well as a very robust supply chain. And about six years ago, we really recognized that the risk of forced and bonded labor could exist in our supply chain. And before I go to the external for a minute, if this is the start of any of your journey in this area focusing on this issue, I'd strongly recommend spending the time to understand the issue and then getting internal alignment is very critical. And we did that very early and got very senior support to go after and focus on this issue. And it's served us well because it is going to be a long journey. And many of you would face the same kind of length of journey. When I think about external collaboration and collective work, as Bob kind of called it, it's critical at every stage. I think from our learning stage, if you will, just to kind of understand the issue, we work with others in the private sector, NGOs, SRIs, you know, to kind of say those who have gone before us a bit and tackle this issue and try to work on it in different industries, what have they learned? What do we need to consider and think about? Because it probably existed in our supply chain, but we didn't really recognize it. So why weren't we finding it? What was wrong with our approach? We, of course, prohibit forced and bonded labor and modern slavery, but we weren't necessarily seeing a lot of it. And the electronics industry as a whole was not necessarily seeing a lot of this in the 2013, 14, 15 time frame. So I think one is that that learning. Number two is then as Bob talked about and I'll just expound on is the criticality of having a common set of standards. We very quickly set our own standard and said, you know, it's going to be an employer pays model. We're not going to try and define what's too much of a fee to pay, what's excessive, whether someone could hold a passport voluntarily. We said, no, nobody's holding your passport, even voluntarily. We just we drew very sharp, clear black lines in anticipation of where we felt the world would eventually go on this topic. And rather than change and reset ourselves, we did that and then worked collectively across different RBA members to train jail on those those same kind of principles. And then that turned into very strong change in our code of conduct within the RBA around early 2016. And then we had this common set of standards that we could then carry forward. Now, not everybody carries it forward at the same pace with the same passion or same urgency, but we at least when we do, we're saying the same thing. We have the same expectation. So then you move into how to kind of role model to hopefully inspire others to join you or control others to join you in some way or to use the services of an RBA or an ROI to help convene different companies together when we put up against the challenge with the supplier. And we've got examples of that where we've been less than a percent of a supplier's business and we can yell very loudly and very passionately. And we do and not want to step down. But at less than a percent of somebody's business, it's very hard for them to get excited unless there's other people at the table, other companies at the table will escalate. We may stop new business with them. But eventually being able to somehow come together collectively is incredibly important. And we have cases of that. We're working cases of that right now with the with the help of the RBA and ROI to try and try and bring several of us together. So I encourage you to help you do that in that tactical space. And then, like I said, all along the way to find best practices to to kind of share, you know, you have a duty as you go along your individual journey. Really, I believe to be sharing what challenges you've had, what's worked and what's not worked in this space. So collectively we can make make some some faster progress and really kind of support the thought leadership that's kind of come ahead of us, in fact, and see if we can't deliver on that at a faster pace then than we've done done in the past. So that's kind of our focus and continue to really appreciate those other actors, be it NGOs, SRIs, associations who really want to go down that journey together and see that that shared benefit. Thank you very much, Mike. You focused on again, similarly to Bob, on very critical issues, which is the essential result that has the effect of coming together collectively has and the power that this brings to the action that can be taken actually to see that this is bringing results, that this is bringing returns to everyone. And you've also focused on the importance on finding out from partners and stakeholders what are the lessons learned, a lot of the partners in the same industry have indeed gone through similar challenges and approached them in a more or less successful way. So thank you very much. I'll move then now to David. And the question is the following, David. Could you tell us what is the role of investors in promoting ethical recruitment in global supply chains during the pandemic? Thank you very much. You have the floor. David, we cannot hear you. You probably have a mic muted. OK, here we go. Yes, perfect. Thank you. Working with friends and colleagues in the IOM has been very much involved in the work that investors have done through like the leadership group responsible recruitment, the responsible labor initiative, etc. So first, the Interface Center, Corporate Responsibility, where I've worked for almost twenty-six years, started in 1971 and it had, at that point, a small group of faith-based organizations, Protestant denominations in the US, the National Council of Churches, and then later Jewish funds, Muslims from Catholic faith. So, since 1971, the way in which the Interface Center is worked, each of our members own public equity as a part of their investment strategy. And so rather than just do that catastrophically, the whole concept was to indeed those companies that our members own shares in to develop human rights policy. And in the first, you know, years, it was all about South Africa, where our partners there, the young minister of the Council of Churches, their contact at ICCR, who later became Archbishop Desmond Tutu and has been a strong supporter all the way through, but he really said to ICCR, utilize your role as shareholders in companies to make a difference and get US companies to withdraw or at least to adopt the Solomon Principle with their employment in South Africa. So, you know, twenty years, about two hundred and sixty-five US companies withdrew and it was one part of the overall anti-apartheid movement that led to one person, one vote and Nelson Mandela becoming present. So human rights has been with us for a long, long time. I would say on this issue in the early 90s, because we can file shareholder resolutions usually under the Security and Exchange Commission here in the US, that go to a vote of all the shareholders of a given company. We started really utilizing that role to get international labor standards incorporated into Code of Conduct for supply. And so that began to happen in the early 90s, really got more traction in the mid 90s. And then there were a number of movements that really solidified in getting a Code of Conduct with monitoring programs that would actually not only have policy but implementation. We've always had a bias, if you will, is make sure that companies that we invest in, in their policies and practices, make a difference for workers. That's more of the kind of the litmus step for our members. Over the last ten years, we've been joined by large asset management and public pension funds, foundations and so forth. So we have over 300 institutional members working collectively, collaboratively to engage companies. And part of the it was interesting because part of the code process called out, of course, the two conventions that the ILO promulgated related to portfolio. And yet it wasn't until like 2004, 2005, we really start to look at modern slaves, which is kind of a way of talking about what happens to workers if they're recruited sort of in an exploitative way. There are other mechanisms, but that is a significant mechanism. So in 2005, we got really, really involved in Brazil. There was a report that came out in the Bloomberg News that there were workers that had been forced into the Amazon to cut trees in the Amazon, make charcoal, that went into pig iron. And from Berlin to New Orleans, you would have the pig iron coming into the steel companies in this country. So you have steel companies, automotive companies, you have the home appliances companies, all with a concern then that they were implicated in modern slavery and forced labor. So at that point, we immediately got in touch with the national tax for the eradication of slave labor and learned that a law had been passed in 1995 by the government that put together an independent mobile unit of the Ministry of Labor, but it was independent to look at complaints that were lodged by civil society. And one of our partners shared the Catholic Land Commission, a religious organization affiliated with the Catholic Fishes in Brazil. Plus, Rio de Janeiro, Dr. Mothe, who did a lot of supply chain research that made the connection between the recruitment, the workers being forced into very severe situations, often very remote. And then they would investigate. So this got us on a screen whereby we were looking for, you know, not just the policies and sort of implementation strategies that were audited at the factory, but also how did how did workers get to the factory or the farm for the seafood vessel? And therefore, we started really focusing on a campaign related to what we had then called like no worker paid fees, no fees initially. And that had some impact on the electronics sector. We had like a multi-stakeholder kind of gathering around table in January of 2015, where we looked at all these issues and the Responsible Business Alliance made some changes to make fees and zero fees, not just excessive fees, etc. And that really laid a framework so that we then, as investors, have engaged companies to put in place these policies and practices, no worker paid fees, passport, etc. But also encourages them to get involved with collective action. Now, since COVID-19, you know, some of the discrepancies that we've always seen in the global supply chain system where workers are often low wage workers and there's not a lot of room to have money that you can fall back on. And the COVID-19 we've seen this in dramatic terms. So, for example, we put out letters to about forty five carol companies that really look at the focus around what are their responsible in terms of responding to furloughed or laid off workers. And so that now is getting responses from companies to setting up meetings. We engage companies a lot. We believe that dialogue can really move the needle. And also as an organization, we did a COVID-19 investor statement that now has about about three hundred fifty global investors signed on with about ten trillion assets and the manager ten trillion dollars. That's a free manager. So, in other words, it's no longer just SRIs and faith based organizations. It's some of the largest funds in the world that are looking at these issues. And that statement talks about, you know, paid leave. It talks about issues that maintain supplier relationships and make sure that small suppliers and workers are not being hurt and to the extent possible to be going because you're going to need them to build that. So at this point, I think we put our kind of emphasis in a process whereby a working with migrant workers, working with initiatives like the responsible labor initiative that we're very involved with and investors are now starting more and more to look at the S of ESP, environmental, social, governance policies, and therefore we're gaining some traction with some of the largest funds and the hope that as economies open up again, that we can rethink what an ethical, equitable, resilient supply chain can look like so that the lessons learned from COVID-19 can really be put in place under capitalism. And I think one final thing, because I don't want to take too much time here, but a word about IOM, a word about the ILO, so important that the U.N. system in its various departments are behind us. And of course, 20 years ago, the U.N. Gold Compact was put together with a co-financing point in John Rugby to do that. Later, he did, brought us the process that led to the U.N. guide of truth for the business community. So there are tools there. There are standards there that the will, where is the will? And I think through collective action with the health of IOM, ILO, like the RBA, leadership, youth responsibility, youth employment that's formed, and others, where we're talking about the Americans, whether we're talking about that corridor between Nepal and the Gulf. We have to have a global system and really try to rebuild a more equitable and sustainable system. Thank you. Thank you very much, David. I really liked how you make the transition from starting to advocate for improved working conditions and recruitment conditions as an interface organization, but then actually grabbing the interest of large companies, the electronic sector, first of all, responding very positively than governments, than U.N. agencies. And this actually also, again, stress the importance of collective action, bringing all the actors, stakeholders together to actually show that the activity is going somewhere and it is bringing results. I will then now move to my colleague, Pavel Shalos, for whom I have the following question. Pavel, could you tell us what role do stakeholders outside of the private sector, in particular, U.N. agencies, play in the design, development and implementation of supply and change strategies? And how can this be enhanced? Thanks, Pavel. You have the floor. Thank you, Mikayla. Thank you again, everybody, for having me with you today. I won't be talking about introducing IOM because Mikayla already did it. So I'll just quickly jump into the topic. But before we jump into the role of the U.N. agencies in design, development and implementation of the supply chain strategies, I would like to take a minute and refer to the point made by David and focus a little bit on who are those different stakeholders and the roles when it comes to recruitment in global supply chains. The fact is that there are many stakeholders, but let me focus on some key ones. Private sector, obviously, is the vital and critical actor in implementation of adequate recruitment. The business pays demand and facilitates supply, especially when we talk about the recruitment industry. But private sector, as much as it's a very vital one, it's not the only one which is critical. The others stakeholders are, just to mention a few, the governments, civil society and also international organizations amongst other stakeholders as well. The governments, the governments create the formal framework and regulate demand and supply through regulatory and other formal mechanisms such as like quotas, temporary worker programs or bilateral label arrangements. As said, the government plays a vital role in shaping up the frameworks for adequate recruitment corridors through which the migrant workers are recruited within the supply chains globally. Civil society, in its turn, play another vital role, but in a different context. They are bringing the worker voice and worker perspective into the policy discussions and solutions and very much actual engagement and very much actual implementation. The civil society for a direct outreach with migrant communities ensures that the two-way communication from and to migrant workers are maintained, as well as the workers engaged in the process. All of those stakeholders mentioned a bit earlier play a vital role in ethical labor recruitment to function and they all need to work together. At the same time, the communication among those stakeholders is often limited and not always super well coordinated. And this brings me to the one, the first key point, why, what can be the role of international organizations and agencies, which is related to communication and networking. Sometimes stakeholders within the same group have a limited possibilities to talk and coordinate across the borders, especially between the countries of origin and destination, the governments and jurisdictions of countries of origin and destination. The recruiters sometimes civil society don't know each other on both sides of the process. International organizations such as IOM, ILO and other players play a very important role of a convener. This involves reaching out and engaging with all relevant stakeholders, passing communication between those stakeholders. Sometimes what we refer to shuttle diplomacy or shuttle communication before they even sit together in one room. But even most substantively, the UN organization are creating more tangible dialogue platforms where the brands, employer, recruiters, the government officials can comfortably sit together at one table and discuss needs and challenges and work out solution. While different stakeholders are often busy with competing priorities of their primary businesses, they have limited opportunities to talk things through in the great details and coordinate among each other. That brings me to another role which the international organizations have. It's the policy support. Those situations I mentioned are often leads to the situation when there is a common understanding and consensus among the stakeholders. But because of the competing priorities amongst them and inconsistencies in policies and subsequently implementation that may not address. This is particularly relevant and challenging with cross-border recruitment where the objective amongst the private sector and the government might not be the same in the same country they do not match. Moreover, we all know that there are gaps and inconsistencies in the policy and regulation between the sending and receiving countries related to licensing regimes and requirements, approach to recruitment fees and costs, approach to protection of migrant workers at large. The job of international organizations is to large extent to bridge those gaps and to help sort out inconsistencies across the board. This is done through the support of development of international standards and frameworks, which serves as one single reference point for national stakeholders, both private and public. Those standards are very often close to the ones mentioned by both Mike and David. In fact, those mentioned by both Mike and David were very often developed earlier than the international standard because we in the UN family, we are not as slow because we have a lot of stakeholders to get together, obviously, but the fact that those international standards facilitate and agree upon by international community are close to the ones by RBA international companies is a good one. The UN agencies by setting up those benchmarks bring, first of all, consistency to those standards, those different standards, something with both Mike and David mentioned earlier. They give international coherence and allows those standards to serve as one reference point for more global applications, who they do recognition. The ILO general principles and operational guidelines for further recruitment or IRIS of IOM are referenced in a number of regional and intergovernmental agreements, not to mention the UN global combatant migration, which was signed by over 150 governments in December 2019. Additionally, increasing number of national governments have been requesting IOMs and ILO support to develop or strengthen their policies on the regulation of recruitment consistent with ILO and IRIS standards mentioned above. Increasing number of international brands now sees those standards as a reference point and has been approaching us to support aligning their own code of contact and supply chain strategies with provisions of those standards of IOM and ILO. That brings me to another point and role of the international organizations, which is related to capacity building and implementation support. Because the role of international organizations, especially the UN ones, goes beyond just the policy advice for the government and brands on international recruitment. Once the policies are aligned, we spend a lot of time on training, strengthening the capacity of the government, both central and local, capacity of brands and their suppliers and recruiters to enable them to practice recruitment in keeping with those international recruitment standards. For this work, we have a lot of tools available, such as, I know that RBA also has a lot of tools available and the good news is there's consistency between those tools and those tools are the standards itself, interpretation guides and guidelines for those standards, training curricula, capacity building programs, tool kits, auditing programs and guides. We even have a voluntary certification of private recruiters available as a tool. Once the stakeholders are connected, their policies are aligned and implementing actors capacitated. International organizations like IOM and ILO can and often do support with facilitation of setting up and ethical recruitment corridors where the rules are established and adhered to by all the participating stakeholders to ensure that this is happening. International organizations often facilitate setting up and coordination of the oversight mechanism to ensure that all the actors, including the IOS themselves, are accountable for the actions and migrants workers are protected. Allow me to end with the final thought that the local context in various places around the world can be different and solutions that work well in Asia might seem not applicable in America, for instance. At the same time, from our groundwork in many countries around the world, we managed to identify even if the context is different, the underlying problems and challenges, especially those related to protection of migrants worker, remain the same across the board, around the world. That is why the international standards as a reference point are equally applicable around the world in all those places. At the same time, being a global UN agency with significant operational footprint around the world gives us opportunity to be exposed to different scenarios and solutions, learn from them and cross reference them and tailor made to any local context by proactive engagement and dialogue with local stakeholders, which will make this happen. Thank you very much and over to you, Mikaela. Thank you very much for this quite comprehensive view of all of UN agencies in in supporting the stakeholders in promoting ethical recruitment practices. You have focused specifically on the the bridge that UN agencies can can be to bring together the various stakeholders that don't necessarily know each other, don't necessarily trust each other, do not know how to talk to each other and you stressed the importance that agencies such as IOM, ILO, recently the UN Global Contact on Migration can give on supporting and guiding the development of policies. Now, a question for everyone in the remaining time. I would request if you can to focus on this just for a couple of minutes each, we don't have much left. It's already 12.15 Costa Rica, so 10 minutes to the end. So I would like to offer you the possibility, whoever wants to intervene on what kind of recommendations you have for the audience so that you know, it's very large, it's very diverse and specifically on what kind of steps you think have worked most and what you recommend could be something to be taken into account for the way forward, especially considering that we are hopefully coming out of a very heavy crisis, the first one that we have seen as a United Nations for sure and that in fact, many countries in this region are still in the very middle of it. Thank you very much. You all have the floor. You can intervene just by your mics are open. Well, maybe I'll get I can see a hand. I'll go ahead, Bob. I'll get started with a couple of items. And yeah, you'll want it to listen and then other is to act. So one of the I think most valuable things we've found is not only having a community of practice where people can learn from each other, build off of each other's efforts to reply and improve them, but also to get diverse perspectives, not just within the private sector, but with our partners in the investor, civil society, international governmental organization and other communities out there that begins to change your the way you look at an issue and a problem and its urgency. And so that's one of the big lessons I think we've learned is that this is in isolation, this can either become you know, one of a range of things, one being it can become very ivory tower, right, and then not implementable when it comes to the complexities on the ground, which they are immensely complex when you get deep into location and remediation. And then the other is too much retreating and not being inspired to get out there and and and be progressive and find the problems and correct them. And we found the community of practice coming together and a multi stakeholder aspect of what we do really helps sort of right size the efforts and coming at that together certainly begins to create the right action. And then the next is the act, right, you can't just listen and create the right approach, you have to get out there and roll your sleeves up and dive in and make sure you have your bowel arm in terms of what you see on the ground, how difficult it is to tear down the veils behind which this these conditions are found and the criticism you might take along the way in terms of your approach from either side of the aisle. So again, I'll encourage everybody listen, collaborate and act. And in that way, we'll we'll make a lot of money. Thank you. Yes, yeah, I had a building on that. You know, we started, you know, there's a lot of information out there on where these risks exist at this point now, it's it's even greater than it was five, six years ago when we began. And so even as you're thinking through the whole process, I'd encourage people if you've just begun this journey to look at your supply chain and decide where this risk may be higher, certain countries, certain recruiting corridors or have a higher propensity of this to be occurring and getting involved in that. If you know how to do the perform the due diligence, then go do it. If not, there are many people out there who can help you go do that. Through that simple act, you will start attacking the problem and you will learn a tremendous amount of information. On the other end, you know, going forward in challenges, I like probably how you kind of put it together. I like the word platform. When we look at this, we can kind of keep pushing and kind of telling people almost like when they're coming to your house, hey, drive over to my house and be safe. But I can't control that whole route. I can't control how fast they went, what the speed limit was on the road. I can try and do my best as somebody inviting that. But I need other parties. And I like the idea of a platform where government civil society and companies or private sectors coming together, maybe on a more frequent basis to kind of identify where our risks seemingly unsolvable right now. We need to apply a different approach to them that could be a collective approach and collective discussion. So I would I'd welcome kind of experimenting in that space. Not even assuming we have it all figured out, but just start to experiment with this platform idea you brought up, Pavel. I think it's it's fascinating. Thank you very much. David, please. Yes, I mean, there's there's so much to say in so little time. But number one, you know, workers, workers, workers. I was so struck this morning. The Institute for Human Rights and Business had a webinar. They're doing a lot of work around the leadership group for responsible recruitment. And this morning, RBA was represented in the focus was Malaysia and Joanne from the IOM in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. You know, describe what's happened to foreign migrant workers since the COVID-19 and the grow back of some key policies related to government and one that stuck with stuck with me. IOM listen to where work. David, David, you, Mike, David, you, Mike. Yeah, there was a movement. You know, the movement control order by the government had a huge negative impact on workers that didn't really know that much about COVID-19, you know, were going out. They many were detained. Some jailed and some deported. And IOM stood up and publicly made statements around that, plus meeting with the government to try to address that. You know, I asked whether companies had joined in on that. She said, you know, they haven't. But I do think there's a role for listening to workers. What are the key elements that in if it's a crisis like we're in now, got to listen well to then be willing to act and create a public face to this and do that to collective actions. I think that's important. The other piece is we're working a lot now with worker driven movements, certainly one in the United States that is made up primarily of workers from Central America and from Mexico coming into the country. And the coalition of Immokalee workers has been working now for 10 or 12 years. Four key major food companies have joined in the Fair Food Program that has transformed the recruitment process. There's no longer working through the crew boss. There they put, you know, they've really done a lot around sexual harassment in the fields, so not just recruitment, but also a whole range. And the whole possibility there is that workers are in the driver's seat. And I think maybe we need to look at sort of a as we rebuild the power equations to validate those that have been made most vulnerable by the systems. And I think in this case, I am really missing Malaysia and did the right thing. And hopefully over time, they haven't stopped trying to meet with the government, et cetera. And now, you know, it it seems to me that as the investors and the associations need to really step up, we need to keep our ears open to what the workers needs are. Thank you very much to all of you. I will refrain from commenting, although I've taken lots of useful notes. I'll keep them for my other interventions, but I wanted to make sure that we give the floor to some of the participants who have already started to share some interesting questions in the chat. There is specifically one on the Caribbean. This is a colleague from IOM who is responsible for the Caribbean migration consultation, which is a consultative process within the Caribbean to discuss migration issues. I'll read it to you. There are many issues surrounding the need for SIDS. SIDS is more like the islands development states, which are particularly vulnerable to external shocks to recover their tourism sector. To what extent is the tourism sector dependent on recruitment and the need of improving their ethical recruitment practices? Anyone in particular who feels interested in this topic, just for you to know, we are trying to launch Iris, the tool of IOM in a number of Caribbean states and also in Central America, because specifically we have been contacted by several government institutions screaming for help because of the kind of exploitation, abuse and general abuse that is suffered by migrant workers is very evident. So I was wondering if maybe David or Bob would like to have anything to say, David. Was it did you mention the tourism sector? Yes, it's specifically tourism, whether it's so dependent on recruitment and in need of improving the ethical recruitment practices. Right. Well, so a lot more work needs to be done. Our organization, the Interface Center on Port Responsibility and this investor alliance initiative that we launched has really focused on sex and labor trafficking in the travel and tourism sector. So we meet with a lot of publicly traded companies that are in the airline sector, the 12 largest hotel chains in the world. And of course, they've been hit really hard by closures, etc. But I think for us, we look for local partners. So this would be something to pursue from this to see what the situation is. But I think recruitment is one of the pieces. Often when we're thinking about the hotel sector, you know, the sex trafficking, which is very much there, you know, kind of forgets that labor is being trafficked into a number of restaurants and hotels and in the, you know, a lot of the workers in the sites. There is about a year and a half ago at the global forum of the leadership group for responsible recruitment and the consumer goods forum, the International Tourism Partnership that has about 12 or 13 of the major hotel chains as members have done a deep dive into trafficking, including affirming the employer pays principle and really working with other sectors. A lot of work has been done in the Gulf, but I do feel like there's a need to really zero in on that sector as well. And maybe through IOM's work and investors, there can be a strategy. Because right now it's been, I mean, it's been appalling. How, you know, as the economy is shut down, the workers most vulnerable have been so treated. So I think their strategies as we move forward and, you know, to maybe a new normal, there can be a real focus on the hotel sector because tourism is huge in so many economies and we have to do it right. So I think it's a need for a collaborative effort. And I would definitely bring in the International Tourism Partnership. Thank you very much, David, for this. I know that I've seen some WhatsApp exchanges as well. And I know that some other colleagues are preparing questions. But in the meantime, I know I actually see that we have hit on to the time limit. But I wonder whether I could just sneak in a quick question that has always burned into my mind, especially working on the promotion of virus throughout this area and in Canada and the US. Some of the challenges that we encounter while providing support to governments, recruitment agencies and employers in Canada and the US is to convince the small businesses, the small to medium enterprises that, of course, cannot rely on, you know, big shoulders and so who are quite scared, to be honest. So they come to us saying, look, you know, this is really interesting, but we're really scared of losing the business. Any recommendation that you could give us there? I mean, this is a question that could be for Mike, Bob or David, I suppose. I don't know, whoever wants to go ahead. I guess I can try. I mean, you know, we have suppliers. Yeah, sure. We have suppliers or agents that are transparent about what's going on. That's really what we want, you know, understanding challenges, even if they aren't going to get an A passing grade, you know, if they were chosen as a supplier to us for other reasons, we want to work with them to make them ethical and put in the right practices. So what we really look for very quickly is a commitment to change. Are they willing to commit to adjust? Because we all know eventually, quote, the truth comes out, right? As the more people look at things, it's just going to come out. And now is not a bad time, I don't think, to be kind of sharing your business model and what might have been OK in the past. That was OK then, right? We were all kind of in that same space together. Now is a bit of, I don't know, maybe amnesties is too strong of a word, but, you know, a period where which you can kind of bring these issues out and say, OK, hey, I realize this is my business model, but I'm willing to change. How do we go about that in a way that allows me to continue on and make lives better for people? And I think you will find many larger companies be supportive of that because finding good suppliers is hard work. Very good way to put it. Thank you, Mike. Please, Bob. No, I was going to echo. I think that there is a good understanding and awareness, eyes wide open that this is going to be a process and not an event over time, especially with smaller lower margin businesses. But the first step, again, is establishing the reality that we want on the ground, educating those smaller suppliers and working directly with them to build a path towards ethical recruitment and employment. There's no other way about this. Otherwise, we're just we're aiding in a bed, you know, dead bondage, right? And so this is a time to not shy away from it, but look for a path through it. This is very interesting. I will definitely keep this in mind to put in a good words for small to medium enterprises, whenever we encounter them on our pathways. Well, thank you very much. David, I can see it now. Yes, I mean, there's one specific piece here that that comes to mind on your question. And that is because of the the apparel sector being hit so hard and particularly starting in Bangladesh, the international organization, employers, the ILO, you know, ITUC and about 11 companies, European and US apparel companies, signed this call to action around COVID-19 and to raise money for the small business suppliers as well as workers and work with the IFC and the World Bank and reach out. And, you know, one of the things that's happened recently, just within the last four or five days is the EU has pledged one hundred and thirty one million dollars to to Bangladesh and the garment sector. And that, I think, is a beginning that it's not one country because it's it's global and that the fund is global, but to see the trade unions, the employers, you know, a number of brands and retailers stepping up and signing this call, I think is positive. We need to see more evidence, but they're certainly working together. And who does who does it benefit? And it really benefits in very small business who are businesses who are suppliers to some of the large apparel brands as well as to the workers. So we can figure out ways and the resources may not appear to be there, but we need to find a way to get it to where they're needed. Very convincing point, Davie. Thank you for adding this in. I realize that we are eight minutes over the allowed time. I can see that there is an extra. No, it's a comment really that is coming from a colleague in Mexico. And she's recommending to share the Montreal recommendations on recruitment with a counterpart. At the Ministry of Labour, actually, we have already shared that document, but unfortunately, it is still in English. So we'll make sure to translate it into Spanish because we know that in our region, if a document is not in Spanish, it's read by a very little minority of people. Despite the fact that a lot of people actually speak English, they still understandably so prefer to read it in Spanish. All right, I will then call it today. I would like to thank all our distinguished panellists for first of all, accepting our invitation to this panel and for so eloquently explaining and well, presenting various very specific examples of challenges and recommendations and recommended action that can be taken and they should be taken as a way to deal with indeed the fear of exposing themselves or the fear of identifying risk, exploitation, but in order indeed to change what we have at the moment and especially during this challenging time of COVID. I'm hoping that the participants have retained some of the important issues that have been discussed over here. We want to remind participants that we remain available on our emails, especially at IOM, to be able to take further questions or clarification that would be needed. I'll tap my email in the chat and wishing you all a very, very good rest of the week and thanks again for participating. It was lovely meeting you all. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you. Take care.