 Aloha, welcome to Global Connections. I'm your host, Grace Chang, and I'm joined here today by Dr. Sung Kyun Ko of Hawaii Pacific University. He's a professor of international relations and political science, and we'll be talking about the Korean War and its significance today. So welcome to the program, Dr. Ko. Thank you. Nice to have you here. Okay, thanks. Great, great. I've been teaching at Hawaii Pacific University on East Asian international relations, Asian politics, numerous different courses. So you've been here for a while and doing this for a bit, so could you please give us a little background on your history, your work in this field, where you came from? Yes. Well, as you said, I'm a professor of international relations and political science at HPU now. I've been teaching almost like half a century, 50 years since 1963, and I've worked for State Department also, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and then taught at various universities in the mainland and East Asia. And as you said, my field of specialties, international relations, focusing on East Asia. I was born in Seoul, Korea, then raised there, then came to the United States for study. So after receiving my doctorate from the University of Pennsylvania, I went back to Korea and worked for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and taught at the Seoul National University at the graduate school level. Then I came back to the United States in 1972, then since that time I've been teaching at HPU until now. Did you say you also worked at the State Department? Yes. Oh, okay. When was that? In what capacity? That was from 1970, 1972, then from 1972 to 2003, as I was linguist. Oh, okay. Well, that was an interesting times. Yes. The 70s, when a lot of change going on in East Asia, the U.S. starts to open up with China. Right. So there must have been a big impact in East Asian international relations. Right, that's right. And you got to see that a little bit in sight into that while you were working there. Well, it was a really very interesting job because my job was essentially to introduce the United States to visiting VIPs from Korea and sometimes other countries too. And basically, to take this VIP visit to various parts of the United States, visit the Congress, visit Supreme Court, then Defense Department, State Department, whatever, then we travel around all over the United States, go to New York, Boston, and go to Harvard. Okay. Yale, Princeton have a seminar with the professor specializing in the area which VIP is interested in. Okay. Then we go to Chicago, then go to Stanford in California. So actually, I travel around all of the United States almost like over 30 times. And that was really great experience I've had in my life. Yeah, yeah. And you have contact with all the specialists in the different universities, the major departments of study there. Right. That's a great introduction and an interesting, must have interesting conversations and insights from that. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And so, I mean, that's a really fascinating background. So you were, you know, you were born when the Korean War had unfolded and going on and then you were teaching throughout like most of the Cold War period. So I know you're, so currently your project is you're working on a book on the Korean War. Yes. And that is, you know, history, but also talking about the significance of it today and also incorporating some of your background or your own experience of the war. So let's talk a bit first about the Korean War itself, I mean, and this book project that you're working on. Very good. I've been working on this book project for some time and very likely will be published sometime coming June. Great. So almost halfway. And I wrote this book because there are so many books written on the Korean War. I think it's over 20 books and various authors and all that. But most books written by American authors. So they touch on American perspective, American interpretation of Korean War. There are very few books written by Koreans themselves, although Koreans were the objects of Korean War. They, they were the, you know, experience of all these Korean works, Korean going on and everything. For whatever reason, maybe not too many books written by Korean authors. So I felt that I was compelled to write something with Korean as a Korean American and to give Korean perspective. Makes sense. So, so I studied on this book and then it's basically a survey to Korean War. And after this, I plan to write another book, which will be similar to Korean War. There will be definitive study. But anyway, the book which I'm writing include the beginning of the Korean War to the end of Korean War. So three years spent of Korean War. So Korean War started with North Korean invasion of South Korea on June 25th, 1953. That ended July 27th, 1953 as Armistice was completed. During the three years of war, both sides, North and South side, compelled to commit themselves destruction, only destruction. And war, you know, obviously is a part of destruction, destruction of each other. Destroying each other, killing each other. And so it started by North Korea, so at the beginning of the war, Civil War. But U.S. intervened four days later, then intervened until the end of the war. Then when North Korea was destroyed by Douglas MacArthur, then Chinese intervened, it was end of October 1950, and it became a sign of American War, essentially. It became internationalized. Internationalized. International war, basically. And the war lasted until July 1953. But what brought about the war? What made Korea divide and take two sides that wanted to destroy each other? Even before, you know, the Americans, the Chinese, under communists? Very good question. When the Korea was liberated, August 15, 1945, Korea was supposed to be. Free, independent, self-government country. That was promised by Cairo Declaration in 1943 by Roosevelt, Jung Isaac, and Churchill. But then that has never been fulfilled, although that was essentially the promise which a light power was given to the Korean people. Instead of Korea being united, independent, the Korea was divided. Especially for the military convenience. When Japan surrendered, then the Soviet Union involved. Then the Soviet Union involved, then the U.S. involved in the Korean Peninsula. So they want to divide Korea into two parts. So the other part be occupied by Soviet Union, the other part by occupied United States. Interestingly, that was proposed by U.S. side. And the person who did was Colonel Dean Rusk, later who became a Secretary of State on the Kennedy. And he did it essentially to expedite military convenience and military consideration only. And didn't think about the impact of division on the Korean people. He didn't think it would impact the Koreans amongst themselves, that they would spur on a civil war amongst Koreans. And he didn't think about the consequences of division. And essentially division precipitated the Korean war. Because North Korea, led by Kim Il-sung, South Korea, led by Seung-man Rhee, want to unify from their point of view. So Kim Il-sung want to unify from communist. And Seung-man want to unify from a democratic, free enterprise point of view. But North Korea had more military strength than South Korea. So North Korea decided to invade South Korea because they felt that they could actually occupy South Korea within a few weeks. Basically take it over. Take it over, essentially take it over. But Kim Il-sung made a mistake. And Kim Il-sung didn't expect U.S. would intervene. If Kim Il-sung expected U.S. would intervene, then he would never invade South Korea. Yeah, probably not, yeah. Would have calculated that that would have been a very risky move, right? It's miscalculation. Yeah, but the U.S. was very concerned because China had already become taken over by the Communist Party that defeated Chiang Kai-shek and his Kuomintang forces. So this was something that was just beginning to color the U.S., I guess, geostrategic thinking. Right, right. So as you said, China was taken over by Mao Zedong and finished the occupation of all the mainland as of October 1949. And after that, that is essentially a very good point because that essentially helped Kim Il-sung to make up his mind because he felt that Mao unified China and why not him unified Korea, just as Mao did in the mainland China. So essentially that helped him to engage in this all our tech consul of Korea. Neither side was successful, in part because the intervention of the U.S. and the South, Chinese and the North. And yeah, so the aftermath of this is that we still have, today North Korea is prominent in American news because Americans don't have direct relations with North Korea, still close to South Korea, and collaborates quite closely militarily and otherwise. But yeah, the situation there is kind of left hanging, so to speak, since the war. Well, that is a very good point because when the Korean War ended in July 1953, essentially it was Amistice, which means ceasefire. The ceasefire still continues, more or less. And there has never been peace treaty between the North and South, between North Korea and United States, partly because United States refused to recognize North Korea. And North Korea resent that. And North Korea's provocations, developing all these nuclear weapons, everything, essentially because they felt they've been ignored, they've been primarily punished unnecessarily because of whatever reason the U.S. has had and whatever the other countries has had, the other countries probably, some countries essentially recognize, the Great Britain recognized that North Korea has diplomatic relations, but the U.S. never recognized North Korea. So peace treaty has never been made. Essentially that causes one of the major problems, North Korea, South Korea tensions, North Korea, U.S. tensions and all that. And how come U.S. did not recognize North Korea? Because U.S. felt that North Korea doesn't deserve recognition because, yes, North Korea has been developing nuclear weapons. This is basically the issue of which comes first, peace treaty, reconciliation or confrontation continue to be. Yeah. So we still have a non-concluded conflict, essentially. Essentially that's correct. Great. Well, let's come back after this break and continue with this conversation. Okay. Sure. Okay. You're watching Global Connections with Grace Chang here with Dr. Sun Kyung-Koo. Okay. Hello, I'm Michael North, inviting you to join us on The Art of Thinking Smart, every second Thursday at 12 noon, here at the beautiful ThinkTech studios in downtown Honolulu. I'm guest hosting for David Chang of Wealthbridge. Now we're talking to Hawaii's most intelligent, accomplished leaders about what makes them successful in their professional lives. By absorbing their practical wisdom, all of us can think ahead, think deeper and become more successful ourselves. We look forward to seeing you on The Art of Thinking Smart. Hi, this is Jane Sugimura. I'm the co-host for Condo Insider. And we're on ThinkTech Hawaii every Thursday at 3 o'clock. And we're here to talk about condominium living and issues that affect condominium residents and owners. And I hope you'll join us every week on Thursday. Aloha. Hello. Welcome back to Global Connections. I'm your host, Grace Chang, here with Dr. Sun Kyung-Koo of Hawaii Pacific University. And we're speaking about his book project on the Korean War, as well as its significance today. So welcome back to the program, Dr. Ko. Thank you. So let's get into the heart of what your book project is about, because we were talking before the break about the international dimensions of it, the Cold War dimensions. I understand your book is really about the war itself, how it was conducted. So let's get into that a little bit. Well, the book is composed of a number of chapters. Well, the difference between my book and other books are that I included my own experience in the book. So I was in Korea during the war. I was 13 years old. And although I was young, but I was very concerned with the war itself, so I tried to find it out as much as I can. So I had all kinds of experience with war, actually, when the North Korean troops moved in to Seoul, Korea on the June 28th, 1950. And as a young boy, I went out to the street and tried to look at what the North Korean soldiers looked like. And they marched in and the tank was right in the middle of the street, the T-34 tanks. And they really looked like soldiers. And compared to soldiers I've seen before the war, the South Korean soldiers, and compared those two models of soldiers, North Korean soldiers, really looked like soldiers. Very professional. Very professional. So they moved in to marching into Seoul, and I look at them. They seemed to be completely indifferent to the citizens coming out to see them. I was surprised that I felt they may be hostile, but I didn't see any hostility. They're just simply not interested in the people watching them. Some of them smile, but not too many. Citizens who came to look at the North Korean soldiers, they were kind of curious, and they had a high degree of suspicion, what would North Korean soldiers would do? So all these kinds of observations, I will include in my book. Then when the Chinese soldiers intervened in the end of October 1950, the Chinese soldiers simply pushed the United Nations forces into Seoul for the South. But Chinese soldiers moved in Seoul on January 3rd, 1951. I stayed in my home until January 2nd, 1951. Then when I heard the communist soldiers outskirts of Seoul, then I moved out from Seoul, then across the Han River, then I walked from Seoul to Taegu, which is about 150 miles distance. So during that time, I saw the battles someplace. I saw the United Nations forces, South Korean soldiers, and the American soldiers. And that experience is written in my book. So as far as the soldiers that you witnessed coming into Seoul from North Korea as well, like the Chinese soldiers you were mentioning, are they coming in? What's their purpose? Are they trying to conquer, occupy, remove the government, take over institutions? You're able to observe them seemingly, it seems like very directly, in everyday street life. So what were they there for, what was their purpose? So Kim Il-sung wanted to unify the country under the theme of national liberation. So soldiers move in and want to occupy and want to move down all the way to the south. So essentially, soldiers are trying to occupy entire South Korea, then incorporate South Korea into North Korea as unifying the country. Essentially take over, occupy. Exactly. Just like Ma Jie-ting took over entire mainland China. So essentially that was Kim Il-sung's objective. And so when you left Seoul, it was after the Chinese also had moved in. There was a UN force in Korea in order to observe, right, the observation. Well, United Nations forces led by United States forces, I mean essentially United Nations forces led by United States forces. So they actually went all the way to Pyongyang and near to Sino-Korean border after MacArthur was successfully landed in Incheon, September 15, 1950. But Chinese intervention forced them to retreat all the way to the 30th parallel, then to the Seoul, then further down. So that's when I left Seoul, January 2, 1951, then walked from Seoul to Taegu. Understandable, very uncertain situation then. That was really interesting because that's the war time and I saw the battles and all that. So that part is written in my book. And essentially what happened is I almost killed several times during the course of this marching down to Seoul. One instant was when I arrived in Okcheon, Okcheon is just a few miles from Daejeon, Daejeon is the major city in the middle of Korean Peninsula. What happened is at the time a train arrived and train, riding a train was exceptionally part of something everybody wanted because, you know, a train was not available and just run every once in a while. The train arrived there and then about 20 young men came down from the train and stayed the same place, wire state, and they were officers' candidates. And then the train was supposedly for the next day, 5 a.m. So they told me they could take me with them. I said that was really wonderful because I don't have to walk, all this snow and cold weather and everything. So I felt that that was great. So the next day they tried to wake him up but I couldn't simply couldn't get up. So I told them why didn't you guys leave? So they left. And then I went back to sleep. See about 10 minutes later, a tremendous explosion occurred. And what happened is, northern girlers came down Ongcheon through the mountain and then put the mines on the railway track. And that actually exploded and the train was just completely destroyed and everything. And I didn't see, you know, these officers' candidates being killed or anything but I assumed maybe that because nobody came back to the city where I was staying at the time. So if I rode that train, then I was killed, no question about that. So yeah, there were real direct effects anybody could have gotten caught in and seriously injured if not killed? I mean, essentially, you know, just tremendous, tremendous explosion lasted about 30 minutes and lasted continuously. And so basically when that happened, then we couldn't go down because girlers saturated around that area. So we just hide wherever we could find the place to hide. Sorry, are these Chinese communist guerrillas or North Korean guerrillas? North Korean guerrillas, good question, because the guerrillas came down through the mountain. So they tried to invade through the natural landscape. Sub-target, objective guerrillas were essentially sabotage and assassination and trying to destroy it, whatever they could find in railway tracks and all that. They used all means of warfare, not just conventional with a uniformed professional. So I mean, we're talking about today, why the Korean War now it's over 60 years now, right? Why it still has significance? We talked about, you know, it's a conflict that hasn't, technically hasn't been concluded. But you know, you talking about the actual domestic experience, like how the Koreans amongst themselves experience the war. And yeah, so what is, yeah, what is the importance of the war today? I mean, it's very interesting the history itself and to know especially about, you know, firsthand experiences and what it was like to confront guerrillas as well as... Right. Good question. Number one, the Korean War hasn't ended when it sees fire. So although there is no shooting going on along the demilitarized zone, but still there are tensions, Korea is the most fortified country in the world. North Korea has about one million soldiers, South Korea has about over 600,000 soldiers. For whatever preparation for the combat that may occur because of ceasefire, because a ceasefire means any time the war can be broken out, no guarantee for anything. So that's number one. Number two, because of that condition of ceasefire, both North Korea and the South Korea has accelerated building up military forces. And because of ceasefire, North Korea, South Korea do not trust each other. So as of yesterday, there was a joint military exercise, ROK and the U.S. forces going on that's going to last for two months. So that essentially precipitated the tensions, continuations. And the North Korea, they want to develop nuclear weapons because there is no peace treaty. And the more North Korea trying to develop nuclear weapons, the more South Korea, U.S. responds to whatever way to deter. And work more closely together, the U.S. and South Korea. U.S. and South Korea. And that's probably kind of a mutual feed, right? Like if the North Koreans see that the U.S. is in South Korea supporting South Korea, then they feel anxious about that relationship. But then they build up their weapons or attempt to. And then, you know, the other thing happens the other way around. Right. And secondly, because of Korean war, not only North Korea, South Korea do not trust each other, but also North Korea has not been able to accommodate themselves into type of government structure to benefit people. Essentially, North Korea is very oppressed people because of this ceasefire issue. So they spend most of their money for military buildup, not for the people themselves. And South Korea also spend one of the highest spending per capita. And from a, you know, percentage from GMP compared to other countries. On their military. On the military. So both North Korea and South Korea waste a lot of money for military buildup. Right, right. And I mean, are there reasons still to believe that North Korea will invade South Korea if the U.S. forces are not there? I mean, have there been any chances to work out the differences between the two sides of Korea? Good question. Right now, there are about 23,000 U.S. forces in Korea, which is very small a number. It used to be, U.S. forces used to be during the Korean War, over 350,000. But most of them were drawn and the only small number of U.S. forces left over there. So actually, they don't play that much important role in terms of combat. They're symbolic. I see. U.S. commitment to South Korea's defense. That's what essentially what it meant to be. So do you think, like, what are the prospects in the near future for what will happen in the Korean Peninsula if you could sum that up for us in a few seconds? Well, hopefully, you know, U.S. and North Korea would reconcile each other, have some kind of peace treaty, and then that would help to reduce tensions. After that, North Korea, South Korea reconcile each other either for unification or to exist based on peaceful coexistence. That would help tremendously to reduce tensions in Korean Peninsula. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for bringing your experience and your many years of research and observation of this issue going on in Korean Peninsula. Welcome you back some other time, Dr. Koh. Thanks for your remarks. Sure. All right. It's my pleasure. Great. Great. And you've been watching Global Connections with Grace Chang and Dr. Son Kyun-Kho of Hawaii Pacific University. See you next time Thursdays at 1 p.m. Aloha.